What Are The Requirements To Get Your Own Page On Wikipedia?

Summary

MarTech Podcast ™ // Marketing + Technology = Business Growth
Episode: What Are The Requirements To Get Your Own Page On Wikipedia?
Release Date: November 22, 2024
Host/Author: I Hear Everything
Guest Hosts: Doug Bell, CMO of Chief Outsiders
Guest: William Buhtler, President of Buhler, Inc.

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Overview

In this insightful episode of the MarTech Podcast™, guest host Doug Bell engages with William Buhtler to delve into the intricate process of establishing a Wikipedia page for individuals and organizations. The discussion navigates through the significance of having a Wikipedia presence, the stringent requirements set by the platform, common pitfalls marketers encounter, and strategic approaches to building a credible profile that meets Wikipedia’s standards.

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1. The Importance of a Wikipedia Page

William Buhtler emphasizes the ubiquity and authority of Wikipedia in the digital landscape. He states:

“Wikipedia is ubiquitous. It is well recognized by every Internet user... there's nothing with that kind of reach.”
[03:16]

William highlights that a presence on Wikipedia not only enhances visibility but also lends an air of credibility, as users often turn to Wikipedia for trustworthy information despite its open-edit nature.

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2. Challenges in Creating and Maintaining Wikipedia Pages

Doug Bell shares his personal struggles with establishing a Wikipedia page, leading to the core discussion on the difficulties and high standards required by Wikipedia:

“Why is it so hard? Why is it so tough to get a page up and keep it up on Wikipedia?”
[05:14]

William Buhtler outlines the primary obstacle—Wikipedia’s stringent notability and sourcing requirements. He explains that Wikipedia maintains high standards to preserve its credibility, necessitating multiple in-depth coverage from reputable, third-party sources:

“Any individual or organization that wants to have its own Wikipedia article needs to have multiple instances of in-depth coverage from independent, reputable, third-party news publications.”
[05:55]

He further elaborates that sources like press releases, blogs, or paid content do not meet Wikipedia’s criteria, making it challenging for many brands to qualify.

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3. Understanding Wikipedia’s Community Guidelines

The conversation shifts to the perspective of Wikipedia volunteer editors who ensure content quality and adherence to guidelines:

William Buhtler explains:

“The volunteer editors... their job is to make sure that content is on there that is verifiable and their go-to is the outlets, the news outlets that all of us would think about, professional journalists.”
[09:33]

He highlights that editors scrutinize sources for credibility and relevance, often flagging or deleting content that doesn't meet the established standards. Promotional language and self-promotion are particularly problematic:

“It is very tempting for a marketer to say that, you know, the client is a leading provider of solutions. I think is the kind of iconic phrase that you would never want to see in a Wikipedia article.”
[09:58]

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4. Building a Strong Profile for Wikipedia Eligibility

Doug Bell seeks advice on developing a robust public profile necessary for Wikipedia inclusion. William Buhtler provides a strategic roadmap:

“They need to engage a publicist, a PR firm. They need to focus on earned media... they're just not ready to get the sources to turn that into notability.”
[13:10]

He recommends focusing on earned media rather than paid placements, as reputable, in-depth articles from recognized publications significantly bolster notability. William underscores the importance of both quality and quantity in media coverage:

“Ten articles from the New York Times probably is going to get you there. It is both quality and quantity.”
[15:04]

Furthermore, he advises against mimicking competitor Wikipedia pages, as adherence to Wikipedia’s specific guidelines is paramount regardless of how existing pages are structured.

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5. Practical Tips for Marketers

Before wrapping up, William shares practical tips for marketers aiming to achieve Wikipedia eligibility:

1. Define Content Goals: Clearly outline what information the Wikipedia page should contain, focusing on verifiable facts rather than promotional material.

2. Gather Robust Sources: Compile a comprehensive list of reputable, third-party sources that provide in-depth coverage beyond superficial mentions.

3. Avoid Promotional Language: Ensure that any contributed content maintains an objective tone, free from marketing jargon or self-promotion.

4. Leverage PR Networks: Utilize connections with PR firms that specialize in generating earned media to build a credible and notable profile.

William Buhtler adds:

“Our team... will do all of its own due diligence in terms of research. We have LexisNexis we have High Beam, we can go find things...”
[17:27]

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6. Maintaining and Updating Wikipedia Pages

In anticipation of the next episode, Doug Bell hints at discussions on best practices for updating and maintaining Wikipedia pages. This continuation aims to guide listeners through sustaining the integrity and relevance of their Wikipedia presence once established.

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Notable Quotes

• William Buhtler ([03:16]):
  “Wikipedia is ubiquitous. It is well recognized by every Internet user... there's nothing with that kind of reach.”

• William Buhtler ([05:55]):
  “Any individual or organization that wants to have its own Wikipedia article needs to have multiple instances of in-depth coverage from independent, reputable, third-party news publications.”

• William Buhtler ([09:58]):
  “It is very tempting for a marketer to say that, you know, the client is a leading provider of solutions. I think is the kind of iconic phrase that you would never want to see in a Wikipedia article.”

• William Buhtler ([15:04]):
  “Ten articles from the New York Times probably is going to get you there. It is both quality and quantity.”

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Conclusion

This episode sheds light on the meticulous process of gaining a Wikipedia page, underscoring the necessity of comprehensive, credible media coverage and adherence to Wikipedia’s rigorous standards. For marketers and organizations aiming to enhance their online authority, understanding these requirements is crucial. Tune in to the next episode for deeper insights into maintaining and optimizing your Wikipedia presence.

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Additional Resources

• William Buhtler’s LinkedIn: LinkedIn Profile
• Buhtler Inc. Website: BuhlerInc.com
• Chief Outsiders Website: ChiefOutsiders.com
• MarTech Podcast Website: martechpod.com

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For more detailed summaries and contact information for our guests, visit martechpod.com. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter or follow us on social media @martechpod for the latest updates.

Transcript

[Benjamin Shapiro]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the iHear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, iHear everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

From advertising to software.

[Doug Bell]

As a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Typical life span of an article is.

[Doug Bell]

About 24 to 36 hours. If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that use technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

Welcome to the Martech Podcast. I'm Benjamin Shapiro, the executive producer of the Martech Podcast and today we've got a special episode for you which is going to be guest hosted by Doug Bell, who's the CMO of Chief Outsiders. Doug is a veteran CMO with a background in helping growth stage B2B SaaS. Companies reach their true potential and I'm thrilled to invite him, him and some of his friends to take the microphone and share their knowledge with you, our loyal Martech Podcast listeners. Okay, here's a special episode of the Martech Podcast guest hosted by Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders.

[Doug Bell]

Hello marketers, My name is Doug Bell from Chief Outsiders. Joining me today is William Buhtler, who is the president of Buhler, Inc. Which is a creative PR agency that provides innovative solutions for brand visibility in the digital landscape, focusing on bolstering online profiles by improving information on Wikipedia and creating engaging content. And today, William and I are going to be talking about what are the requirements to get your own Wikipedia page.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

But before we get to today's interview, I want to tell you about what I'm listening to. Ever wanted to sit down to a candid conversation with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands? The current Podcast is your chance. On the current podcast, you'll find exclusive interviews with the experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising. And they always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to the [e-mail] or anywhere you get your podcasts today.

[Doug Bell]

Okay, here's My conversation with William Buhtler, the president of Buhler Inc. William, welcome.

[William Buhtler]

Hello, Doug. Thanks for having me here.

[Doug Bell]

Good to have you. Thanks for joining us from the side of a mountain in Virginia. William, you've got a great topic here for us today. And I've had some personal experience, I think a lot of marketers have, trying to get a Wikipedia page set up. Tell me why. I went through the pain of trying to set up a page a couple times with prior companies. Why do organizations want their own page and what are the benefits? Why are people doing this?

[William Buhtler]

I love this framing. Tell me why I did this thing. Well, it is probably because Wikipedia is ubiquitous. It is well recognized by every Internet user. It's been around for very close to a quarter century now. When Wikipedia began, it was kind of treated as a joke for the first several years. And then it started creeping up the Google search results so everybody was checking in on it. Wikipedia has no competitor. There is no other website that you know has been successful. Others have tried, but none have compiled the world's information in such a way. This year there's going to be, I think 7 million articles in the English Wikipedia. There's just nothing with that kind of reach. And even though everybody knows that it can be edited by anyone. So who knows whether you can trust it or not. You know what people do. There's no other thing to turn to. So you Google a subject, Wikipedia shows up and you kind of believe what you read there. And in turn, because of that authority that it has, it becomes a place to be seen. So yeah, companies, people, brands, they want to be there, including, I'm guessing, your clients.

[Doug Bell]

And let's extend that a bit more. William, you mentioned a few things here, but there was a time when Wikipedia dominated the search engine results pages, the SERPs. Right. It was quite often the first result you would find on an organic search. And I mentioned that and I feel like that's diminished to some degree over time. I think the search engines have gotten a little bit smarter in terms of intent to be sure. But the other piece is what an anchor for SEO in terms of your ability to create a really credible link. And then you also mention end of the day, it's trusted content. So this is why. And William, when you and I were having a prep conversation about this, I sort of talked about my horrific experiences developing pages for when I was an in house CMO and really working hard, following community guidelines and then waking up one day to discover that the page had been deleted. So which really leads me to the next question, which is, why is it so hard? Why is it so tough to get a page up and keep it up on Wikipedia?

[William Buhtler]

The shortest version is because Wikipedia has very high standards for new articles. And that is because there are vastly more people and companies who would like to have a Wikipedia page that actually meet its requirements. Okay, so why are those standards so high? You know, there's this feeling among Wikipedia editors, it's things understandable that if they let everybody in, if they covered every single topic in the world, then it would lose credibility. There's some value in exclusivity that probably is another reason why you want to be in there. If you're there, you're somebody. But Wikipedia really wants to cover topics that are just of genuine public interest. And they also want their articles to be trusted, as you say, trusted content, which means fairly strict sourcing requirements. And not every brand, not every individual can satisfy that. So I've mentioned the fact of these requirements. You know the guideline to know about if anybody wants to go look it up themselves, it's called notability. I feel like that word notability is kind of seeped into public consciousness a little bit. I sometimes hear people call it notoriety, which is not quite right. But notability is that term and it's a term of art. I like to speak in terms of eligibility because if I tell a prospective client you're not notable, it sounds like I'm saying, well, you're not important. And for Wikipedia it's not just that you are important, but that there are sources that demonstrate it. So when it comes to those like satisfying those requirements, any individual or organization that wants to have its own Wikipedia article needs to have multiple instances of in depth coverage from independent, reputable, third party news publications. So what counts as that? That includes so national newspapers and magazines. If you're in Bloomberg and the Wall Street Journal, that's really the top of what we're looking for. Academic journals count, but most companies won't have that. They're looking for actual reporting by professional journalists. And to really establish the notability, several of these articles need to be really in depth. So no passing mentions, not just quoting you on another subject. If you are quoted on another subject, if you're quoted even on your area of expertise, ask yourself what information does that provide that then can be added to my Wikipedia article that says nothing about your biography, for instance. So then what doesn't count is actually it's a longer list. Press releases can't use those. Really anything that is published by the first party Source a blog post or an op ed written by the principal. Paid stories like native advertising. I will definitely see prospective clients say, oh here I'm in the Los Angeles Times and I look at it and it's an advertising supplement, social media podcast, interviews, I'm sorry to say, don't count. So satisfying all those requirements is quite hard. And then on top of that, you actually have to write the article, follow all of Wikipedia's content standards while writing it. And then once you get to that point, then there's how to get it reviewed, how you put it in Wikipedia in the first place. And so I don't want to bleed too much into the next question, but the whole question of how to interact with the community, it's a whole topic of its own.

[Doug Bell]

Thanks for unpacking that for us. I have to say all of it makes complete and total sense. Right. What you're effectively saying is that the Wikipedia communities job, and these are volunteers, these are editors, their job is to make sure that content is on there that is verifiable and their go to is the outlets, the news outlets that all of us would think about, professional journalists. And they're looking for multiple sources to verify that the content is correct. Because guess what, people like me, marketers might flood it with junk. My client is the best in producing widgets in the world and I know that because I claim so. Right, so we understand that piece. And you also sort of tipped into community guidelines to a degree. And I want to spend some time there on community guidelines. One thing that really occurred to me as you were talking about this, William, is that really the Wikipedia page is the end of really strong PR performance as opposed to I'm going to go create a Wikipedia page. What do I do to get there? It's almost like there's almost a diagnostic to this that says William's list of things that you need to have done before you can actually publish a page. And that's what I think you really did a good job of unpacking for. So maybe take us back to some of those community guidelines and what I would love for you to do is to step in the shoes of a volunteer editor and how they're looking at the world. And in particular William, there's a new article posted and it's by your agency. So there's that editor. They're looking to find fault. How are they seeing the world?

[William Buhtler]

Well, what they're doing is so first of all they will know that it comes from my agency or they'll know that it Comes from maybe the company, because someone needs to disclose the financial connection to the subject. So there will be, on the talk page, there will be a like, hi there, I'm so and so, I work for the company. I wrote this article and follow the processes. So if I'm looking at this, it's probably already gone through a level of review. But if I'm skeptical, then I probably will begin looking at the sources. You know, go down to the references and see, well, is this article supported by the kinds of reputable news publications that Wikipedia strongly prefers, or is it written from. Yeah, press releases? Or have, like, passing mentions in news articles been kind of gussied up? Have they. Has it been, like, played to be more than it is? And it can be kind of hard to tell sometimes. Go click through and read for yourself. You know, this is why Wikipedia does have many articles that are not up to the quality of what Wikipedia's guidelines say. So I'll probably look at the sources. I probably also look at the content and make sure that there is not any of that promotional language like you were describing. It's very tempting for a marketer to say that, you know, the client is a leading provider of solutions. I think is the kind of iconic phrase that you would never want to see in a Wikipedia article. But I bet if you Google it, you can probably, if you go to Wikipedia and search that phrase somewhere, you probably can find that because there's. There's more articles than there are editors. And if I find that the article is not good, well, I might just put a warning tag at the top of the page and then, you know, most editors honestly just move along. They kind of like tag it and mosey along and wait for someone else to fix it. Because Wikipedia editors have their own projects, so they kind of don't want to stop and work on someone else's mistakes, if that makes sense.

[Doug Bell]

So they're following community guidelines. They're effectively their recourse that they don't agree with the content is that they can flag it. I have to say, my experience is they'll just delete the whole thing. Like, they won't even flag it. They'll just delete the whole article. Do you find that to be less common these days?

[William Buhtler]

It depends on the sources. No article will ever be deleted if it has sufficient sources to establish that it's notable. Now, certainly that can be in the eye of the beholder. There's definitely arguments about whether it meets that threshold or not if an article is junk, but it meets the sourcing requirements, it will stay. It'll get tagged up, but it will stay. On the other hand, if editors find that the sources do not elevate this article into the realm of notability, then that is when it is deleted. So it sounds like what happened to you.

[Doug Bell]

Yeah, it sounds like I screwed up, is what you're saying, William. You're just being really super nice about it because you're from a part of the world where people are nice to each other. So I think that part of what I want to talk about, really, is this idea of how do I build a profile, if you will, that is strong enough to get to a Wikipedia page. So you mentioned a bunch of traps that I stepped into, which is mentions in articles, as opposed to articles that are really about, say, in this case, a brand or a particular product line, et cetera. So I stepped in lots of those traps. But I have a feeling that if you're talking to a new client and they lack that good, strong, earned media profile, what are you recommending to them? Because this sounds like a bit of a journey to get to the point. We've all gotten paid articles. I stopped doing this 10 years ago, but we've all been like, look, I'm in Forbes is the one that I think people think of the most. Right. Look, I'm in Forbes. Isn't this amazing? You pay to play, right?

[William Buhtler]

The Forbes contributor network is notorious on Wikipedia.

[Doug Bell]

Yes. And they do a brilliant job of making the content not look like it's paid content, so it can be effective.

[William Buhtler]

True.

[Doug Bell]

But for a Wikipedia article, it's a trap, right?

[William Buhtler]

It is.

[Doug Bell]

So what's the roadmap you recommend to clients who are looking to build that stronger profile so they can have a Wikipedia page? What do you recommend?

[William Buhtler]

Good time to be asking this, because just before we started this recording, I was trading emails with a prospective client who would like to retain our services. But I think we're going to recommend something else. So let me tell you what I'm going to recommend to them when I get back to my computer afterward, and that is they're not ready to work with us. What they need to do is they need to engage a publicist, a PR firm. They need to focus on earned media. The person who I was talking to earlier today, representing a tech entrepreneur who's doing something that's quite interesting, but they just haven't got the news coverage for it yet. I think they should be able to get there. They're doing something that is kind of inherently interesting. It's noteworthy, but they don't have the sources to turn that into notability. So we have a handful of folks that we work with. We are a member of a global network of PR firms. It's called the WorldCom Public Relations Group. And we will refer people who are not ready to hire us. We'll refer them to other agencies that are in WorldCom. We also work with individual publicists who might be better for certain topics. And we consider ourselves to be like a boutique PR agency, but we don't go out there and do earned media. That said, earned media is absolutely crucial to the work that we do.

[Doug Bell]

Okay, so I'm tuned in. I was super excited to learn how to post. And what I'm learning, get a page on Wikipedia and get it posted. And what I'm learning is I got a lot more work to do. So without getting into the world of PR and what PR agencies do, I think marketers are out there going, okay, do I need to have a PR strategy? Can I get placement in the New York Times? I'll bring up a place. That would be incredibly hard. Do I want to be in the New York Times? Because I'm likely there for a really bad reason if I'm in the New York Times. Right? So they're sort of estimating and thinking about this.

[William Buhtler]

If it bleeds, it leads.

[Doug Bell]

Exactly. So when I'm thinking about this, potentially as a marketer, what are some of the indicators that would say I'm going to be successful? Is it literally as simple as there are 10 articles published from the New York Times? Go for it.

[William Buhtler]

Ten articles from the New York Times probably is going to get you there. It is both quality and quantity. But if you have one really awesome news article that is super in depth about you, in theory, that could be enough. It's highly unlikely, because if there's one really good article, there's probably a bunch of other ancillary pieces that you could fill in other gaps. The standard question we'll ask folks is to Send us your 3 best links, send us your 3 best articles. And we want them to have information not just about the career of the person. You know, a Wikipedia article is largely a biography of a person's career more than it is about them as a person. And yet your bid to have an article approved, let's say it is about an executive, is a lot stronger if you can fill in the information that would go into the early life and education section without having to resort to your own bio page to do that. You know, a lot of times an executive may have grown up in a small town before moving to the big city. And in their success, the local hometown paper may have written about the local boy or girl makes good. That certainly is the kind of coverage that we've used in a lot of executive biographies over time. But I'll tell you what, like, one of the challenges is just that there's a very admirable quality of many people which is to focus on the work and not on their own glory. The downside of that is that it actually means you are a lot less likely to get a Wikipedia article about you than someone who is glory hog. I don't wish to denigrate the desire to have information out there about oneself. It can be done responsibly, it can be done less so. But yeah, actually calling attention to yourself is something that, well, it can help get a Wikipedia article and the folks who are just, oh, I'm humble, that's wonderful, I'm very proud of you. However, it's just not going to help on Wikipedia.

[Doug Bell]

So I imagine it's a little easier if you are in academia. You mentioned this before. Or if your industry is very much based on folks that originate from academia. So I'm thinking biotech as an example. Where you're in academia, you publish or die. And so you've probably got a lot of research that you've published, a lot of peer reviews, a lot of articles. I can imagine certain industries are really easy compared to other industries that are typically really hard. What other tips? Because I want to spend some time bringing you back tomorrow, William, and sort of talking about, we've graduated, we have the article. How do I make it effective? How do I maintain it? What other tips can you give folks before they reach out to you or before they really think about, can I pull this off? What else should they be looking for?

[William Buhtler]

So I think the first thing is try to figure out what it is you really want this page to include. We will never suggest that someone should try to write their own article, because writing for Wikipedia is its own kind of technical writing, both in the style of it and in how one includes the sources, a set of bullet points, you know, maybe organize it by section. Here are the facts you want to get into it. Provide a roadmap for myself for someone like me to go try to find the verification. Also, if you have a list of clips, if you have that already compiled, please pass that along. Our team, like our strategy team, will do all of its own due diligence in terms of research. We have LexisNexis we have High beam, we can go find things, but also you as the person or the company who wants the article, probably knows about sources that are not as easily found online. So like newspaper, sorry, magazine articles in particular from the 1990s or thereabouts, though a lot of those are just not available online anywhere. So if you can pull those together and provide those, that can certainly shorten the distance to getting the thing done. Trying to think about what other tips might really be helpful. Here's another one actually is do not compare yourself too closely to what competitor articles on Wikipedia look like. Just because there's enough article on Wikipedia that looks like a certain thing and you like it. It might be that that article doesn't actually follow Wikipedia's guidelines either, and it could be vulnerable to being changed. Just because there's one bad article doesn't mean there's reasons to make another bad article. So not getting overly attached to what you've seen on other pages is another good one.

[Doug Bell]

All right, this is great advice, William. Thanks for spending some time with us today.

[William Buhtler]

Thank you very much.

[Doug Bell]

Okay, that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks to William Buhtler from Bueller Inc. For joining us today. In part two of this interview, which we'll publish tomorrow, William and I are going to be talking about best practices for updating a Wikipedia page. If you can't wait until our next episode and would like to learn more about William, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show Notes or visit his company's website at B E U T L E r I n k.com okay, that wraps up.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

This episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks to our guest host Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders. If you'd like to get in touch with Doug, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show Notes. Or you can contact him on Twitter, where His handle is MarketAdvocate. Or you could just visit his website, which is ChiefOutsiders.com A special thanks to the Current Podcast for sponsoring today's interview. If you're looking for candid conversations with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands, then give the Current Podcast a listen. On the Current Podcast, you'll find exclusive interviews with experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising, and they always, always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to the [e-mail] or anywhere you get your podcasts today. Just one more link in our show notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to martechpod.com where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, and you can even apply to be the next guest speaker on the MarTech podcast. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is martechpod. M A R T E C H P O D on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Or you can contact me directly on LinkedIn. My handle is benjshap. B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, we're going to publish an episode every day this year. So hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

Thanks for listening to the MarTech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit ihearthing Combat.