MarTech Podcast: What is Your Automation Tech-Stack?

Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Charlie Grinnell, Co-CEO of Right Metric
Date: November 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the evolution and practicality of marketing automation tech-stacks, with a candid discussion on how marketers are leveraging (and sometimes “duct taping”) current automation tools. Benjamin Shapiro and Charlie Grinnell explore their own workflows, the balance between simplicity and sophistication, and the reality of working in a rapidly shifting technology landscape. Their conversation offers a behind-the-scenes look into which tools they use, how they connect them, and why flexibility is critical for marketers today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Charlie's Approach to Automation

[01:47 - 02:29]

• Charlie admits he isn't a developer, coming from a video production background. His stack is intentionally simple yet effective:
  • Things 3 for task management
  • Reclaim AI for smart calendar blocking
  • Workflow “stitched” together using Zapier, Lindy, Twilio
• Emphasizes function over complexity: "My stack is like quite flexible and duct taped and I'm trying to get really clear on what are the things that I can transfer between them, which is the prompts, the, the context, all of that. I think the tools can absolutely change." (Charlie Grinnell, 02:29)

2. No-Code Revolution & Accessibility

[01:57 - 02:25]

• Charlie insists coding skills are no longer required:
  • "Like I do not know how to code, full stop." (Charlie Grinnell, 02:00)
• Benjamin notes, "Everybody knows how to code. You can code in English now." (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:25)

3. The Necessity of Flexibility

[02:29 - 03:27]

• Charlie explains why he's kept his stack flexible and provisional in this “gold rush” moment:
  • “I built them by duct tape for a reason. Because we're in the gold rush...I think that, you know, it's a fool's errand to try and pour concrete on a lot of this stuff.” (Charlie Grinnell, 02:29)
• He focuses on transferring context, prompts, and workflows rather than committing to rigid tools.

4. Choosing Tools: Simplicity vs. Sophistication

[03:27 - 04:11]

• Benjamin shares his own preference for user-friendly tools, recounting a failed migration:
  • “[With] N8N ...it was so much more complex that I'm like, what am I doing? ...the user friendly platform, the, you know, tried and true Zapier. Why would you use such an old platform? Make is better…they all do the same thing. Why wouldn’t I use the one that’s the easiest?” (Benjamin Shapiro, 03:37)
• Both hosts admit they favor tools they can bend to their needs, even if it's not "the developer way."

5. Lindy vs. Zapier: When to Use What

[04:11 - 05:20]

• Benjamin asks Charlie how he delineates between Lindy and Zapier.
• Charlie sees Lindy as “Zapier on steroids”:
  • "Lindy just kind of like, rolled [workflow automation] out in a way where I started playing with it, and it kind of just worked for me...they're probably interchangeable." (Charlie Grinnell, 04:45)
• Admits to some data/workflow sprawl across platforms:
  • “My lack of personal data hygiene. I probably have some stuff running in Zapier I could centralize...but there's just so many workflows …I just haven't gone back and cleaned it up because, again, I don't think that's a good use of time.” (Charlie Grinnell, 05:07)

6. Data Organization and Reality vs. Aspiration

[05:20 - 05:33]

• Benjamin jokes about how marketers break their own data discipline rules:
  • “Doctors make the worst patients. And marketers also make the worst marketers and don't follow their own advice.” (Benjamin Shapiro, 05:20)
• Charlie’s advice: “Don’t listen to what I say. Watch what I do.” (Charlie Grinnell, 05:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I do not know how to code, full stop.” – Charlie Grinnell (02:00)
• “Everybody knows how to code. You can code in English now.” – Benjamin Shapiro (02:25)
• “I built them by duct tape for a reason. Because we're in the gold rush...I think that, you know, it's a fool's errand to try and pour concrete on a lot of this stuff.” – Charlie Grinnell (02:29)
• “Why wouldn’t I use the one that’s the easiest? Maybe I’m just biased.” – Benjamin Shapiro (04:00)
• “Lindy is basically... Zapier on steroids.” – Charlie Grinnell (04:45)
• “Doctors make the worst patients. And marketers also make the worst marketers and don't follow their own advice.” – Benjamin Shapiro (05:20)
• “Don’t listen to what I say. Watch what I do.” – Charlie Grinnell (05:31)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Charlie's Automation Tech-Stack: 01:47 – 02:29
• Perspective on Coding and No-Code: 01:57 – 02:25
• On Flexibility/Not Pouring Concrete: 02:29 – 03:27
• Why Choose User-Friendly Tools (Zapier vs N8N): 03:27 – 04:11
• Comparing Lindy & Zapier; Data Hygiene Confessions: 04:45 – 05:20
• Data Organization Irony & Closing Banter: 05:20 – 05:33

Episode Tone & Style

The discussion is casual, honest, and self-deprecating, with both hosts embracing the “pragmatic marketer” identity. They poke fun at their own contradictions, share the realities of operating in a fast-changing field, and highlight a bias towards tools that work now over hypothetical future solutions.

Takeaway

Marketers don’t need to be coders to build powerful automations—the current landscape enables non-technical users to craft sophisticated, adaptable workflows. The key: favor flexibility, accept a bit of chaos, and focus more on effective context and transferability than on perfect data hygiene or monolithic toolsets.