Which frontier model will win the AI-platform battle?

Summary

MarTech Podcast™: Which Frontier Model Will Win the AI-Platform Battle?

Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Dave Steer, CMO of Webflow
Date: October 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Benjamin Shapiro interviews Dave Steer, Chief Marketing Officer at Webflow, on the fast-evolving landscape of AI frontier models. Together, they explore which major AI platforms (like GPT, Claude, and Gemini) could win the long-term enterprise battle in marketing technology, and discuss what actually matters for marketers: the models themselves, or the contextual use cases built on top of them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shifting Landscape of Frontier AI Models

[01:15 – 01:44]

• Dave Steer on the state of AI:

  • The question of which AI model will emerge as the frontrunner remains open and unsettled.

  • Dave highlights his own experience using ChatGPT, Claude (Anthropic), and notes that the industry is still "in the early innings" of a long game.

    "I can't make that call because things are changing all the time. I've really enjoyed using ChatGPT ... In my last job we were an Anthropic shop so I used Claude all the time ... I think the game—I said early innings earlier. I'm committing to early innings."
    — Dave Steer [01:44]

• Benjamin Shapiro presses Dave for an answer, prompting an amiable back-and-forth on personal preferences and the fast pace of advances in the space.

2. Evaluating The "Big Three": GPT, Claude, Gemini

[02:11 – 03:02]

• Benjamin Shapiro shares his own usage patterns and evolving opinions:

  • Admits to using Claude most often, but considers Google’s Gemini as a potential winner due to Google's unique contextual data.

  • Casts skepticism on the idea that GPT-5 has “maxed out.”

  • Balances Gemini’s data advantages with GPT’s first-mover status, expressing hesitancy but betting on the power of underlying data sources.

    "I use mostly Claude right now ... I do think that the rumor is we've hit max frontier model with GPT-5 and it's just not getting incrementally better. I don't believe that for one possible second ... I think that, the more I think about it—and I haven't been bullish on them before—but I think Gemini, because of the context that Google has and the access to the underlying data source, I would probably put my chips into that stack. But I am very hesitant. I think GPT has the first mover advantage. I use Claude and think that right now it's the best model."
    — Benjamin Shapiro [02:11]

• The hosts underscore the rapid evolution in model quality, user experience, and data integrations—with no clear dominant player yet.

3. Platforms, Context, and The Real Battleground

[03:02 – 03:50]

• Dave Steer reframes the debate:

  • Suggests the real question is less about the underlying model and more about the context added by the platforms that integrate AI into marketing workflows.

  • Notes that as models themselves become commoditized, competitive advantage will shift to those who build the best layers and interfaces atop these models.

  • Cites the competition across industries, with platforms like GitHub and GitLab for developers, and names Webflow’s ambition in marketing.

    "It might even be the wrong question to ask, because the frontier model is the commodity or it will increasingly become the commodity. It's the context that's added on top of it. So for me, the interesting questions ... which platforms that sit on top of these models have the best context available? ... I think in the marketing world, Webflow is—a, you know, it's going."
    — Dave Steer [03:02]

4. Personal Moments & Wrap-Up

[03:50 – 04:13]

• Benjamin ends with a light-hearted off-topic question:

  "Who's your favorite Red Sox player?"
  — Benjamin Shapiro [03:50]

• Dave reminisces about attending games with his daughter to watch "Big Papi" (David Ortiz).

  "Big Papi. When you said Big Papi, I remember taking my daughter to Red Sox games and we'd always go just to see Big Papi." — Dave Steer [04:04]

• Benjamin jokes about pronouncing "Mark Pedroia" with a Boston accent.

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Memorable Quotes

• "I can't make that call because things are changing all the time. ... I think the game—I said early innings earlier. I'm committing to early innings."
  — Dave Steer [01:44]

• "I do think that, the more I think about it ... Gemini, because of the context that Google has and the access to the underlying data source, I would probably put my chips into that stack. But I am very hesitant."
  — Benjamin Shapiro [02:11]

• "It might even be the wrong question to ask, because the frontier model is the commodity or it will increasingly become the commodity. It's the context that's added on top of it."
  — Dave Steer [03:02]

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Notable Timestamps

• [01:15] – Introduction to Dave Steer and the business context.
• [01:44] – Dave's take on making predictions about AI models.
• [02:11] – Benjamin evaluates GPT, Claude, and Gemini.
• [03:02] – Dave's perspective on platforms vs. AI models.
• [03:50] – Closing with a personal Red Sox anecdote.

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Takeaways for Marketers

• The "battle" between AI models (GPT, Claude, Gemini) is far from decided.
• Model quality matters, but real differentiation is moving toward the contextual layers built on top.
• As commoditization of foundational models grows, brands should focus on platforms that best integrate these models into their existing workflows.

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For further information, connect with Dave Steer on LinkedIn or visit webflow.com.

Transcript

[A]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[B]

From advertising to software as a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising.

[C]

Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours.

[B]

We're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action. Then it's just a matter of timing.

[A]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that used technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

[C]

I'm Benjamin Shapiro and joining me today is Dave Steer, the CMO of webflow, which is a platform helping marketing teams build and optimize websites with enterprise grade performance and AI driven personalization. And today Dave is going to show us how to navigate the AI boom and deliver digital experiences that move the needle. If you had to bet on one to win the battle, which frontier model are you picking?

[B]

I can't make that bet because or I can't make that call because things are changing all the time. I've really enjoyed using ChatGPT. In my last job we were an anthropic shop so I used Claude all the time and so I can't make the call at this point. I think the game I said early innings earlier. I'm committing to early innings.

[C]

That's not an answer.

[B]

I'm sticking to it.

[C]

Ben okay, yeah, I have mixed emotions. I use mostly Claude right now and I do think that the rumor is we've hit Max frontier model with GPT5 and it's just not getting incrementally better. I don't believe that for one possible second. I do think that understanding context and be able to pull in more research from the rest of the real world will continue to get better and continue to refine tone the more I think about it and I haven't been bullish on them before but I think Gemini, because of the context that Google has and the access to the underlying data source, I would probably put my chips into that stack. But I am very hesitant. I think GPT has the first mover advantage. I use Claude and think that right now it's the best model. And I think that when you look at the underlying data source, how could you beat Google? And that's my take.

[B]

I mean, look, we're three years into a decades long journey. The other side of it is it might even be the wrong question to ask because the frontier model is the commodity or it will increasingly become the commodity. It's the context that's added on top of it. And so for me, the interesting questions, and I have skin in the game, I have a stake in this, is which platforms on which parts of workflows, marketing workflows, et cetera. But you can also say developer workflows, which platforms that sit on top of these models have the best context available. And there's a big race with GitHub and GitLab. And I think in the marketing world, Webflow is a, you know, it's going.

[C]

To give it a go. All right, well, I'm rooting for you from the sidelines and I appreciate you coming on the podcast. And one last question for you. I know this is off the record and we just have to ask, who's your favorite Red Sox player?

[B]

A Big Poppy. When you said big Papi, I remember taking my daughter to Red Sox games and we'd always go just to see Big poppy.

[C]

I've always been a Mark Pedroia fan because he's the most fun to say with a Boston accent. And I'll save everybody from hearing it. But that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks for listening to my conversation with Dave Steer, the CMO of webflow. If you'd like to get in touch with Dave, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our shownotes or on martechpod.com or you could visit his company's website, which is webflow.com and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or Visit us on YouTube where we'll be back in your feed next week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.