Ep 530 - Novak's House (feat. Brandon Novak)

Summary

Episode Summary: Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast - Ep 530: "Novak's House" (feat. Brandon Novak)

Release Date: November 22, 2024
Hosts: Matt McCusker & Shane Gillis
Guest: Brandon Novak

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1. Introduction to Brandon Novak and Early Life Challenges

The episode opens with Matt and Shane welcoming Brandon Novak, a prominent figure in the recovery community, to discuss his tumultuous journey from addiction to sobriety and his subsequent efforts to help others. Brandon delves into his complex relationship with authority, stemming from a troubled upbringing.

B (00:22): "My father, yeah, he's a crazy drug addict Hell's angel guy. He was really disconnected from reality and lived in his own world."

Brandon explains how his father's chaotic lifestyle and substance abuse profoundly impacted his perception of authority and conformity, laying the groundwork for his own struggles with addiction.

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2. Skateboarding, Addiction, and the Turning Point

Brandon recounts his early passion for skateboarding and how it initially provided solace amidst his unstable home life. However, as his friend Bucky's skateboarding career flourished, Brandon's path took a darker turn toward heroin addiction.

B (07:24): "I chose to pursue a life of heroin and addiction. Fast forward some time later, I was really sick one day I couldn't come up with any money..."

Brandon describes the pivotal moment when his addiction spiraled out of control, leading him to a point where he was homeless and desperate for help. This desperation ultimately set the stage for his entry into recovery.

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3. The Path to Recovery and Writing "Dream Seller"

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Brandon's journey through various treatment centers and his reluctant yet transformative experience with writing his first book, Dream Seller.

B (12:35): "They were very equal there. Homeless in Baltimore, letting men blow me for heroin... versus carrying a notebook and pen to write my story."

Under the encouragement of his friend Bam, Brandon began documenting his life, which eventually led to the publication of his book. This act of storytelling became a cornerstone of his recovery, allowing him to process his experiences and inspire others.

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4. Founding Novak's House and Expanding Recovery Efforts

Brandon shares the inception of Novak's House, his network of sober living homes aimed at supporting individuals in their recovery journey. He emphasizes the importance of providing accessible and affordable housing to those overcoming addiction.

B (42:53): "On my fifth-year anniversary, I opened up my very first men's sober living house called Novak's House... It has since turned into seven houses for men and women in Wilmington, Delaware, with 75 beds."

Brandon discusses the challenges and rewards of expanding his initiative, highlighting how community support and a focus on personal accountability have been pivotal in the success of Novak's House.

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5. Philosophies on Addiction and Recovery

A deep dive into Brandon's perspectives on addiction reveals his belief that addiction is not merely a struggle with substances but a battle with one's own behaviors and mindset.

B (22:12): "Recovery is one of those weird things that works so well, people stop doing it. It's such a mind game."

Brandon argues that true recovery involves changing one's internal dialogue and behaviors rather than solely focusing on abstaining from substances. He emphasizes the role of spirituality and self-awareness in sustaining long-term sobriety.

B (35:27): "It's me and my behaviors. So I had to change my behaviors to change the outcomes."

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6. Current Initiatives and Collaborations

Brandon discusses his ongoing projects, including Redemption Addiction Treatment Center and collaborations with former Jackass crew members who have embraced sobriety. These initiatives aim to create supportive environments for recovery and promote positive lifestyle changes.

B (42:43): "Redemption Addiction Treatment Center in Wilmington, Delaware... it's all deliverance. I started this podcast... creating an environment that people want to be a part of."

He also touches upon his advocacy for harm reduction strategies, such as safe injection sites, highlighting their potential impact on reducing overdose deaths and providing pathways to treatment.

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7. Reflections on Sobriety and Helping Others

In the concluding sections, Brandon reflects on the ripple effect of his recovery—how his decision to seek help not only transformed his life but also positively influenced those around him. He underscores the importance of helping one person at a time to foster broader societal change.

B (62:43): "If you can help one person, someone took the time to stop and help me. I, in turn, helped another."

Brandon reiterates his mission to provide support without barriers, ensuring that financial constraints do not hinder individuals from accessing the help they need.

B (41:21): "My mission is to provide a bed for anyone in need of sober living after completing a treatment center. I refuse to let price be a deterrent."

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Notable Quotes

• B (02:10): "It's all about approach. Today, it's much easier for me coming from a position of simply understanding as opposed to being understood."

• B (15:07): "The first book, Dream Seller. That's what I did for a living. I'd make people believe the unbelievable."

• B (22:47): "Recovery is one of those weird things that works so well, people stop doing it."

• B (35:06): "The problem is the thinking and the attitude and the behavior."

• B (56:08): "It takes so much longer to get two days sober than it will to get two years sober."

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Conclusion

Episode 530 of Matt and Shane's Secret Podcast offers a profound exploration of Brandon Novak's battle with addiction and his inspiring path to recovery. Through candid conversations, Brandon illustrates that overcoming addiction requires more than just abstaining from substances—it demands a fundamental shift in mindset and behavior. His establishment of Novak's House stands as a testament to the power of community support and personal accountability in fostering lasting sobriety. For listeners seeking motivation and insight into the recovery process, Brandon's story serves as a powerful beacon of hope and transformation.

Transcript

[A]

Mr. Novak. How you doing bro? Man, how you like the mister? I've been trying to be way more respectful lately.

[B]

Have you mister? Yeah, mister would just piss me off. You, you don't like a mister? No, I love, I just feel like, I feel like it's like an authoritative figure. Yeah, you know, I don't, I, I, I, I. You don't problem with like authority and conforming.

[A]

Where's the authority problem you think come from?

[B]

My father, yeah, he's a crazy drug addict Hell's angel guy.

[A]

But he was still authoritative. He was still like in his own.

[B]

Demon demonic up way, you know what I mean? Like he was really disconnected from reality and he lived in his own world and his own world looked like he rode with the Hell's Angels and everything was transactional a business while under the influence of crack or fucking meth. And so like he, you know, he was the guy that like he would come home at 2:33 in the morning and when he was awake, the whole house was awake and everyone was going to wake up to sit on the sofa to watch him and his biker buddies party.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

So authoritative in that approach.

[A]

I see what you're saying, Sam. I thought I had a problem with authority. I just have an Irish Catholic father who spanked my hiney. And I'm like, dude, I don't want.

[B]

To hear a wet dream for me, you cocksucker. Fuck off.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. I'm like, I have a fucking authority problem. Mine must be nothing. Cause I think that is real. The link to authority problems is just your relationship with your dad and my.

[B]

Mother'S go to my whole life as a child growing up, she's like. And when I just couldn't figure out fuck about shit, she's like, you know, we should put you in the Marines. Like if you don't, what do you think I want a fucking muscle jacked? Fuck. Waking up at 4am to 5,000 push ups. You could fuck off.

[A]

Yeah, that would spaz you. I have a one of my mom's. Someone like my mom knows got dishonorably discharged. Just from what I heard of just being, waking up and being like, get the fuck away from me. And they're like, dude, you're out of here.

[B]

Dude. That is, that approach does not work with me.

[A]

Yeah, I wouldn't think so.

[B]

Well. Cause I already am wired with like, if it doesn't make sense to me, it's wrong.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? So like right out of the gate I have a Lot of shit going against me. Cause a lot of things don't make sense to me. So I walk around like, wrong, wrong. Could do better, should do better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's. What I've learned in life, for me, is that it's all about approach. Right. And today it's much easier for me coming from a position of simply understanding as opposed to being understood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so, like, I just accept you for where you're at, the. The jar head for where he or she's at, you know, and. And just. It's cool. Yeah.

[A]

That was something that blew my mind during coven. And I, like, mentioned this before, but I still can't get over it. Like, I would. I didn't realize how much I did this. But, like, especially during, like, like, so before COVID I didn't know that I was really doing this. But I go through a supermarket, and like, every person I saw, it would just be this, like, weird, invisible battle in my head where I'd be like, look at this fucking guy's fucking pussy jerk off for sure. Then I would see a lady, like, chick's not even hot. Is she looking at me? No, she's not. Fucking bitch. And you're doing this, like, crazy maniacal thing in your head. And then, Covid, it came to a fever pitch because there was like, the mask first, no mask. And then it was like. Yeah, it was just like. It just all came to a head where I was like, dude, why am I this stressed while taking a walk? And I started doing a thing where, like, when I would be out at a grocery store, I would really focus on not having, like, a silent battle against people and instead just, like, wishing strangers well and like, like you were saying, exuding that whatever that energy is, dude, I felt so much more comfortable in public after that. Yeah, it was like. It was like a revelation for me.

[B]

I love being right sized by humanity. It just happened to me recently. And I'm really good at, like, again, I really have dove into this whole spiritual aspect of. Of. Of my reality and believe.

[A]

When you say right side. Sorry, what do you. What do you mean?

[B]

Like, my ego will allow me to create these delusional narratives that aren't even fucking real. And then when I'm proved wrong, when I really believe I'm right, I'm like, dude, I am a fucking asshole. And it just happened. You're a Philly guy, right? You'll relate to this story. I had a crazy weekend. I was in New York, all kinds of stuff going on. I drive back and I have like these weekly dinners at this place in Fishtown, Sunday nights. And you know, Fishtown's kind of oversaturated with a lot of hipsters. And in my mind, hipsters are just kind of tattooed, bearded, angry people for no fucking reason. It's not like they lack resources or chance, whatever. I create this narrative. So I had a long weekend and I'm trying to park under the L to go to this restaurant I go to and there's this ice cream truck and it's fucking just submerged with hipsters getting ice cream. And that's cool, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But as I'm doing this three point turn, someone I've actually like, oh, he's fucking pissed, dude. He's gonna fucking. He's got a problem. So now I haven't even seen the person. I'm ready and I'm like the most fucking passive aggressive. Like, I cringe at the thought of confrontation, but if you caught me on the right time, I'm like, it's fucking on.

[A]

Yeah, let's go.

[B]

So as I'm parking, see him, and it's a hipster with tattoos and a beard who I already have created an issue with, but I don't even know this person. And he locks eyes with me, as I'm hoping he would, so we can fucking get to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he goes, oh, shit, you're so and so. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, dude, I fucking love your work, man. And he had a camera in his hand and he was taking portraits, and still he's like, can I get a photo of you? He said what? I do. And I'm like, dude, yes. And fuck me, right? Because, like, I walk around just like at times. And that's what I mean by really enjoying being right sized. Because I have a job sometimes that consists of knowing everything, right? And that places me in a lot of positions that I don't really like to enjoy. Yeah.

[A]

When you say you have a job of knowing, what do you mean?

[B]

Because, like, you know, for so long, when I was caught up in addiction, right? When. When logical people who knew how to stay sober would suggest to me what I might want to do in order to save my life, I'd suggest why they should fuck off. Because I. I knew, I knew. I know, I know, I know. I was too smart for my own goddamn good, right? And then I got to this place where the pain became so unbearable, I was able to look back and recognize that like every common denominator in every one of my problems was me. And Maybe if I just get the out of my way, I might stand a chance of living a better life. And what I do know is that I don't know, because when I. When I think that I know there' no open mind, I am not teachable, and I'm definitely not willing to try anything that I don't agree with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which just sets me up for a. You know, all these terrible experiences.

[A]

Yeah. Take me back through that. So that. What was. Like, how did you. Like, what's your story? Like, how did you get in that? Obviously you're saying, like, you know, family or, you know, home life. Not great. And then like, eventually to, like, you know, gaining a ton of notoriety. Like, what was that like for you, going from, like, the beginning to, like, the thick of all that stuff?

[B]

Well, it was. It's, you know, it's. It's a very interesting narrative and storyline, I believe, because I come from Baltimore and you're obviously from Pennsylvania, so there's a lot of similarities at this table. But coming from that home life of a pretty chaotic household and a father who was pretty out of his fucking mind, I believe I was genetically predisposed to addiction or alcoholism. And that, paired with the atmosphere I was brought up in, it just made sense. But throughout that journey, I was blessed with a skateboard, and I fell in love with skate. Skateboarding. And another guy from Baltimore named Bucky.

[A]

Lasik, who I played him on Tony Hawk, for sure.

[B]

He's my fucking. He's the man. He's the legend. And he was from Baltimore, and he kind of recognized the talents I possessed. So he took me under his wing and got me sponsored by PAL and that's where the skateboarding world took off. But then we would go to Cheapskates in Pennsylvania. The skate park.

[A]

Was it boards and Blades or what?

[B]

Boards and Blades was later on. That was right off Route 1. Right there.

[A]

I was a young boy at boards and blades, and you would see, like, bam.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We would come through and I'd be like.

[B]

We filmed like, some of the cky there. Yeah, like the stunts and stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Naked Dave doing an ollie over the pyramid and then bam. I think kicking or punching or something like that.

[A]

Yeah, that was always legendary. You guys would come. We were like, 12. We like, oh, dude.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Like, trying to do one heel flip. Like this fucking rules. I'm gonna get sponsored.

[B]

It's. It pro board coming soon. I get this heel flip.

[A]

Yeah, they're coming. Spitfire's coming for me. Dude.

[B]

I need a manager at this point, too Overwhelming, but nonetheless. So I meet BE and then we at that skate park called Cheapskates, which was clearly before your time, if boards and blades was when you started. And where was Cheapskates? I don't know. It was in Pennsylvania. And we drive up right on. And Bam would always be there. And he wasn't sponsored at that point. Bucky and I were. And we were instantaneously became thick as thieves. And we'd practice for this one contest every year, which was the NSAs they'd have in Bricktown, New Jersey. Okay? And either he would win or I'd win. And one year I didn't show up. And he was there. And he went to Bucky, and he's like, yo, Bucky, where's Novak? And Bucky's like, I think he's on heroin. And Bam at such a young age is like, well, what's that, right? And not such a young age. Like 12, 13. I was like, 16, 17. But that's pretty young when you're consumed in, like, a nice, wholesome life that revolves around skateboarding and a good family. Like, you don't have conversations that consist of those words.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

So. So it was at that point that his career in skateboarding totally excelled and took off, and mine went to complete shit. And I chose to pursue a life of heroin and addiction. Fast forward some time later. I'm really sick one day I can't come up with any money, but at this point, I wouldn't even acknowledge a skateboarder, right? It was like, it was the equivalent of, like, looking at the woman you, like, get away the love of your life. You're like, dude, if I just did a little, like. So it hurt me like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'd avoid skateboarding like the plague, but one day I was really sick and I couldn't come up with money. So I decided to go to this skate shop in Fell's Point called Select, and I asked when I get there to try to get some money, like, we're not going to give you money. But Bam was here yesterday with the Toy Machine team, and he asked if we ever saw you. We said no. And he said, well, if you do, give him my number. So he leaves his number, and a couple days later, I. I call, and it was the number to Fairman Skate Shop.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

In town. Yeah. And. And I called Fairman's. Right? Timing is everything in life. I call Fairman's. It's not even his. It's not his house. It's Fairman's. I'M a homeless heroin addict. I pump in some change into the. To the pay phone, right? And this changes, like my lifeline, right? So I got my finger on the thing. Like, if it don't answer, I don't get. Yeah, for the money. So I'm like. But Dave answers. He's like, yo, he was just here. He's next door at Kuma, which is the sushi restaurant in town. He's like, hold on, I'll go get him. So he goes and gets him, comes back, and then that night, I'm on a Greyhound bus from Baltimore to Westchester. And he's like, yo, come live with me. At this point, he had done the CKYs, and then Viva Le Bam had just started, and he allowed me to be a guest on the show and started to get paid by Viacom and. And I could do all this shit. I just couldn't. I could have a credit card. I could live at his house rent free. I just wasn't allowed to do heroin. Okay? That was the stipulation.

[A]

No problem.

[B]

I was cool with like, coke and alcohol because that was like, I wouldn't steal your shit when I wanted more.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

[B]

So. So that was kind of how I like. And then throughout that process, Ben would always be like, yo, your stories are like the fun. He always loved the. The positions I ended up in as a direct result of my heroin addiction. Yeah, like. Like letting gay men shave my asshole for rent money and fucking, you know, letting men blow me for more dope and just getting stabbed in the head with ink pen and fucking, like, all this nonsense. So he's like, yo, you can live at the house. And now I'm starting to get appearances in Jackass. He's bringing me along and he kind of calls me like his walking television. But he. Then one night, we would go to Kildares after a wrap. We'd rap for the day. Cass and the crew would go there and humongous table of like 40 or 50 in a bar.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's like, tell this story. Tell that story. And you could literally hear a pin drop. And it was then that he's like, yo, you're going to write a book now? I had not graduated high school at this point. I had no ged. I had nothing. I had no part of ever wanting to write a book. He's like, you're going to write a book. He gives me a notebook and a pen and he goes, you're to carry this around all the time. He's like, I don't Give a fuck if I don't even see you writing in it. You have to have it in your hand. The first time I don't see it in your hand, you're going back to Baltimore.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

So, like, the scales of justice were very equal there. Easy to weigh out. Like, homeless in Baltimore, letting men blow me for heroin. Or carry this notebook and pen around and write my story and still be on a TV show, drive a car, credit card paid by Viacom, blah, blah, blah.

[A]

And you were maintaining sobriety, like relative sobriety?

[B]

No, no, not even close. So he would like. I never was allowed to do what I really wanted to do, which was opiates. Whether it was like Percocet or heroin, that was very frowned upon. And. And he made it very known to Westchester and the people we worked with to not give me any gotcha. So people listened. And. But nonetheless. And the second book that I wrote, Streets of Baltimore, really dives into this. The psychology of an addict or an alcoholic. Because I knew that I'm being presented this golden ticket, right. I can become this household name making money. I can live in this mansion, drive a car, blah, blah, blah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I know that it's only a matter of time before the rug gets pulled out front of me, like, because I can't stop getting high.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he's cool with the coke and the alcohol and. And because. And they don't really understand addiction at that point.

[A]

True.

[B]

Yeah. But like, inside of me, I can't wait to get back to Baltimore to. So I'd tell him lies, like, I have to go back and get my favorite pair of jeans. And I'd go back and end up there for three weeks.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

And just lost in Baltimore shooting dope. And so he kicked me out. I'd go to rehab and a lot of wash, rinse, repeats of that.

[A]

Sure, yeah.

[B]

Later on, he then comes with this new idea. I'm gonna write this book. I have no desire to write a book, but I had read a book called A Million Little Pieces by James Frey. Brilliant book. And I love the outline of that. So I'm no fool by any means. And I went and I just copied his outline and I wrote fucking 12 chapters, pen to paper, right? No laptop, anything. And my co author is a man named Joe Franz, who made all the CKY videos, filmed the Viva La Bams and Jackass. And he did not want that job. But Bam was like, dude, you're gonna do this. Because no one wanted to work with me. I was like, I was not a good Fucking employee.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My behavior was rather erratic, to say the least, but he made him kind of do this. And then a year later, I'm like, yo, I think I'm finished. And Bam started reading. He's like, dude, this is really something. So then he gives it to Joe. Joe turns 12 chapters into 23. And we get a literary agent off of Bam's manager finds me a literary agent, shops around, and it gets fucking picked up. And it does, like, really, really well.

[A]

What was it? This is your first book?

[B]

The first book, Dream seller. Which was. I mean, that's what I did for a living. Right. Like, I'd make people believe the unbelievable. I'd build your hopes up to, like, make you believe that, like, it was going to be different this time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just in hopes for you to believe in me enough for me to get some cash out of you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To only apologize and just to wash, rinse, repeat.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And that's kind of what my life looked like for a long time. But that's how I ended up up in all these places and doing all these things that. What I didn't know then, that's really rad now is, you know, that's life. It's. It's live forward and learn backwards.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And, and, And I didn't see that. I was kind of being tasked with this up position of addiction or alcoholism to then be later on blessed with recovery and use the very same platform that I gained notoriety from as being just this fuck up drug addict alcoholic to being this guy that's like, yo, if you want help, like, I will help you. I have all these avenues to, like, get you out of where I once was.

[A]

Yeah. Can you put that into words? I always. I'm always kind of fascinated by that. When it's like. Because it is obvious to anyone who's out on drugs, we know someone who's on drugs. You're like, dude, if you just don't do drugs, you won't have as many problems. And they're like, I have to do them.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

It's like, how do you. What is, like, the thought. Is it even a thought process or is it just like. It's like a genuine, just like urge?

[B]

At that point in time for me, I got to a place in life where any person, place, or thing that stood between me and a bag of heroin must and will go. And it was never personal. It was just business. Right. Because I have a good guy with a great heart. And I was raised by a loving mother who taught me to show kindness and compassion to humanity, but don't catch me when I'm withdrawing. You know what I mean? So it's like, so what? You know, I own treatment centers today. I own sober living houses. I'm totally emerged in that world. And. And the truth of the matter is, you know, we are amazing people that have been diagnosed with a deadly disease that makes us make terrible decisions. That's the reality of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At least my story.

[A]

Yeah. So you're saying, like, I'm like, the process of, like, having, I guess, that urge versus, like, you know, like you said, in some way, you kind of know, like, yeah, this isn't going to go well.

[B]

So I remember, you just have to.

[A]

I have to do it.

[B]

Prime example. We were kind of getting into it a little bit before we got on. I had just done a year in George W. Hill Correctional Facility. Right. They let me out New Year's Eve. I'm living in Westchester, and I have an amazing fiance at the time who's now my ex because they continue to get between me and drugs. So you have to fucking go. And she's moved our home while I was incarcerated. She redecorated. It really tried to love my addiction out of me. And I want it to be done with it. I really did. That night I was released, I called up one of my buddies who rode with the Pagans, who party with us in Westchester, and he brought over some Percocet, 30s, and a couple Xanax. Now, I had been sober for a year up to this point, and I'm on parole. I know what the deal is if I fuck up. I find myself in Ryan's Pub in Westchester because I live right down the street. And I told my chick, she'd watch me like a canine. I'm like, I just have to go up here to say hi to whatever. And I go. And I'm in the pub and I'm sitting on the toilet and the toilet paper dispensaries to my right, and I crush up 2 Percocet, 30s and a half, a Xanax. And I have it, my billfold, and I'm about to put it in my nose and sniff it, and I'm literally crying uncontrollably crying. I can't stop crying because I know that as soon as I do this, I'm going to begin that behavioral pattern that takes me where I don't want to go and makes me do things I don't want to do, but I can't control myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, they like there's no good explanation. There's no room for logic at that point.

[A]

Jesus, man.

[B]

And that's. That's kind of what my day in, day out, looked like for a long time.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's a good explanation of it because. Yeah, I know it's not like a thing with like words. It's just kind of like, you know, you also don't. It's like. It's pretty rugged, man.

[B]

And I remember. And I remember that night, I'm in the bathroom, I'm doing this and. And I could hear people out in Ryan, you know where Ryan's is. And they're having a good time. They're waiting for the ball to drop. They're laughing, they're fucking playing, they're cheersing. And I'm in the stall just crying uncontrollably with a fucking rolled up bill up my nose, getting ready to sniff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everything I love away. And that's what addiction is as a whole. But it didn't start that way, you know?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. How did you end up starting to do heroin? Because that was like a big jump from like skating. Like, was it the pills first?

[B]

It was the fucking hallmark progression, you know, the weeds, stealing the herb from the dad and the blow, because he sold a lot of blow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Things just progressively got worse. But mine was genetic, so, you know, I have a mother who was a nuclear physicist. I have a brother who is an attorney who works in the White House.

[A]

It's awesome.

[B]

I have a sister who works in the hospital my mother ran. But they are by a different father. I'm the only one by my father.

[A]

Got you.

[B]

He was an addict and his father was an addict.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I believe I was fucked from the gate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's the thing now is that like, it's like, you know, my poison has become my medicine. And like, it's turned out to be the biggest blessing that's ever happened in my life. Yeah.

[A]

That is the thing with. I feel like addiction, it is like a. It's almost like a weird spiritual practice if you think about it. You just kind of like. Rather than like meditating, you're just getting so fucking high all the time. Your life just collapses. And then now you have to really kind of. It gives people, I think, a deeper appreciation for life if they make it through. That's my.

[B]

And that's the thing, right? Because here's the reality, and this is why people are so just like frustrated with battling the disease of addiction. Statistics state, theoretical evidence dictates that I or anyone else that is sober are to be high or dead. Right. Like the data collected, the analytics, analytics from all over these studies that are given states that the majority of people die as opposed to fine sobriety. Yeah. And I remember getting out of my last facility and you know, bam was always a constant theme throughout my life. And I stopped over and I saw him and he's like, what the fuck? What was different about number 13 treatment center? Why not 12 or 10 or 6 or 4 or 3? He's like, what did you have like a meeting with God or something? And I didn't say it to him because it's just too much for one to grasp. But in my mind I'm like, yeah, I kind of did. Really?

[A]

So then that's what I've heard before. That was, wasn't that what AA was founded on? The guy, Bill, Bill and went to like Carl Jung and he was like, bro, either fine God or you're toast. Yeah, in a way.

[B]

So. So, you know, I'm not religious. I don't particularly care for organized religion.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But I'm insanely spiritual and it's like, where is my spirituality? If I judge your spirituality? So acceptance, acceptance is the answer to all in world for sure. But I didn't understand that. See, the truth of the matter is, and this is a blanket statement that I'll make for anyone that's in addiction or in recovery is that we didn't get here because we took the short bus to school. Quite the contrary. We end up here because we're too smart for our own fucking good. And then I land in a seat of a 12 step meeting or a treatment center that literally has the ability to save my life. And I around and out think myself right out of it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[B]

Because recovery is one of those weird things that works so well, people stop doing it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Think about. It's such a mind. Yeah, right. So what I didn't know is that like the last thing I tried was the first thing that worked. Right. Because I, I was just too smart for my own good. And I wasn't quite willing to buy into the process. I, it worked great for you guys, but I'm a bit different. Yeah.

[A]

That's everyone I've known. I'm not one of those guys.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And, and at the end when I was optionless, literally, I was homeless, I was moneyless, I was friendless, I was carless loveless, just, that was me. I had no other choice but to buy into the process. I didn't want to do it, then I begrudgingly did it, but, like, fuck it, I have the time and no one's expecting or requesting my fucking presence. So let's run it. And the craziest thing happened is it started to work. I experienced the 12 steps. And what happened throughout the 12 steps is I had a spiritual experience. And the definition of a spiritual experience is simply a psychic change, meaning that I, Brandon Novak, today, no longer look at things the way I did then.

[A]

Do you remember what kind of kicked that off exactly? Or was it just kind of pain?

[B]

Yeah, pain. I had to end up in a place where the pain was so fucking unbearable, right? Like, like, to where my back was against the wall and I. I had nothing else to do to get myself out of the position that I had created for myself.

[A]

How long did I take? How long did I take of, like, doing heroin?

[B]

Well, my overall resume with alcoholism and addiction was 22 years.

[A]

Okay. Wow.

[B]

So. But, you know, the last 10 were really bad.

[A]

Yeah. What. So what did that look like in terms of, like, that you're saying, like, the personal pain, was it like. Like, obviously, like, there's probably physical discomfort and all that stuff, but, like, just like alienation from everyone you've ever known? Were you, like, kind of, like kicking yourself over, like, how much better things could have went? Like, what was, like, the real primer?

[B]

All of the above. But what I didn't know then that I know now, is that each one of my attempts at trying to find recovery were not failures, despite me thinking they were. Cause, like, I would. I would use in treatment. I'd get kicked out, I'd leave, I'd use the same day. And as any blessing happens to anyone, it happens unbeknownst to us, right? Like, if I knew when and where a blessing was taking place and I was to report there, to receive said blessing, I'd fuck that up, right? So, like, I had to be put in this place where these seeds were being planted, unbeknownst to me. And then finally, on that day where the appropriate amount of pain was created, where it became so unbearable that I was finally willing to do what I had never been willing to do, which is become open minded just long enough to pick that phone up, ask for help, and then the craziest thing ever, but fucking follow through with it, I started to see that, like, none of this was what I thought a failure. Like, it all played its part when it was supposed to, so that finally, when the opportunity met the appropriate time, an event was going to take Place that was going to create this outcome unlike anything that I could wrap my feeble mind around. And I saw on my way into that last treatment center, it's like the skies parted and I walked across the sea, and everything they said made sense, and just, like, it hit me and I knew that. I get it. It makes sense now. Yeah, it all makes sense.

[A]

So you knew. Even just heading while on the way there, you're like, just something flipped because.

[B]

They would be like, dude, I own facilities now, and my favorite thing is to run groups with my clients. And I can't get enough of that. And I. Who in here thinks that you're in here because of drugs and alcohol? And the majority of them raise their hands and I'm like, you're all fucking wrong. That that's not why we're here. The drug and the alcohol is not the problem. So right out of the gate, no wonder you keep repeating your behaviors, because you're fighting the wrong opponent, you're in the wrong ring, you're going to lose every time. Yeah, right. The. The problem is the thinking and the attitude and the behavior. Right. So as long as I continue to repeat the behaviors, I'm going to repeat the outcomes where I end up in a place where the only answer is a shot of heroin or a glass of wine. So once I realized the alcohol is the solution, not the problem, I've now identified, right. Who my opponent is, it's my behaviors. So I had to change my behaviors to change the outcomes. I started to then gain a better understanding of the reality of my situation. And. And what I learned is the reason why I got beat so bad is because A, I always underestimated the opponent that I was up against because I was the great I am, and B, I never gave it the time, attention, or respect it deserved.

[A]

Yeah. And you're talking. When you say that, you mean like, yourself, basically, or like, because it sounds to me like it's like. Like you were saying, like, yeah, fucking heroin, fucking keep making me fucking do it. When in reality it is like it's yourself. And nobody, even without drugs, nobody wants to admit that they're a complete problem.

[B]

Exactly. And again, this isn't just substitute the word drugs for whether your things, porn, sex, food shopping, gambling, fighting, whatever. Yeah, right. These are the solutions to the problem. And you were talking about it during COVID right? Prior to Covid, you'd walk around with all these narratives of these people, and then all of a sudden, in Covet. And it made me think of it. We were kind of forced to be with ourselves, by ourselves, to look at ourselves, which is what we avoid by fucking fighting, betting, shopping, you know what? I. And then I, I start to look at me, which is why I got high for so long, right? To escape the shitty reality I created for myself as a direct result of continuing to shoot dope. And, and, and, and then finally, when I got into a place where I could start looking at me, I realized that I'm the problem right there. There is no their part. And the longer I think that there is a their part as to why I am this way, I'm just the victim. So now I'm going to drink because of my shitty life. And you would too, if you had a life like mine. I' why? Right? The brain is the problem in every area of life.

[A]

Yeah, dude, it does. It can you up, man. You can. Yeah, it can really you up. You can do anything and just be like, get something in your head like, oh, I'm not good enough.

[B]

Totally. And then it just snowballs.

[A]

Yeah. It's kind of up.

[B]

It's insane. But if you, if you, you're aware of it, then it's worth its weight in gold.

[A]

Yeah, true.

[B]

And now like, the longer I stay sober, the more work that I do. It's amazing. What I do know is that I don't know and I don't take credit for any of this. Yeah.

[A]

How long you been sober for?

[B]

Coming up on 10 years.

[A]

Oh, nice. It's been a while.

[B]

Yeah. And now all I do, I dumb my way into this shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now I always say I came into like sobriety as a king and I worked my way up the ladder to become a humble servant. And the more people I help, the more I give away, the better my life is, the more I gain in return. Which makes no sense. Yeah, right. Like, in any business transaction, if I give you something I have, I'm to walk away with less. In this weird, magical, spiritual world of recovery, anything that I give you, I'm walking away with more.

[A]

Yeah, dude, that I remember. That was like a weird shock for me. When I. I used to. I went to school for social work for a while a couple years ago and, and I would get like, inmates housing. That was like a thing I did for like one of the field placements. And then there was this one guy who's a pain in my ass. He'd always like, call me and just be like, you're not doing, blah, blah, blah. Sure, he was under the gun because they were going to take his kid you know, a bunch of. If he didn't find appropriate housing. And. And I remember the day I found him a house. We're both in this place. And I called him up, I was like, yo, dude, we got it. And he, like, we both were so happy. And I was like, that was such a funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For something so dumb. I mean, it's a big deal. It's a house. But I remember, like, I won this, like, comedy contest and I was like, this is it. And then I got the guy house. And it was literally the same feeling again. It was the same exact feeling of.

[B]

Like, timing and opportunity meeting to create a beautiful outcome.

[A]

But it is a weird thing. That was like a weird thing for me when I was like, oh, you can get just as happy for doing nice things for people as you can like, you know, achieving some sort of personal victory.

[B]

Any monetary victory.

[A]

Exactly. And it's like. It is. Honestly, I would argue that, like, when you. When you do something like, awesome for a person, I think it feels better than if you like. If you just like, kill it in some way with like a sales thing straight up. Yeah.

[B]

And you know, and that's the thing. No matter how much for me, what I did for the majority of my life is I just like, rearranged the furniture on the Titanic for years. And I swore that this way was going to be the proper placement to make sure my sip doesn't sink. And I would always do that. And then I learned that, like, it is what it is, right? Stop over complicating a simple process. Because the world kept. Right, sizing me and I just kind of. I took me out of the equation. I thought less and just did more because I surrounded myself with like. Like people who genuinely were also really good people that were just trying to make humanity a little bit better today than it was yesterday.

[A]

Yeah, that is a nice thing. And it's. It's one of those things too. It's one of those things I think people sneer at. They're like, making the world better. It's like, sure, what the else are you gonna do, dude? Just be a. All the time. But it's like, I feel bad for personally. It's like, so you have, you know, people, they go through, you know, drug addiction. There's like this whole thing. It's like, you know, everyone. When, you know, I would imagine you're a drug addict, there's like a part of it, like, everyone knows I'm an addict. People are talking shit on me, everyone, blah, blah, blah. But then almost like, you're like, you reach a point where you're like, I don't give a fuck. And that's like a very freeing experience eventually. Whereas there's people who don't ever, you know, fall into a deep drug addiction, but they never get to really face their own like, self defeating mental patterns. And in a way, it's almost like the person, in my opinion, who goes through addiction and gets out of that ends up having, I think, a richer existence than if you never really have to face that or come like face to face with yourself and like really look at yourself. Because there's people who get through life good on, you know, on paper, but it's like, you know, they're tortured.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

It's like I always thought it was like a shame.

[B]

I couldn't agree with that sentiment anymore. That's a spot on fucking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Example.

[A]

Because everyone I know who's in recovery is like, they're very open. There's like a note and I almost like you can tell, it's like, okay, this person really has turned a corner because it's like something switches and it's like it's a. Nobody really knows exactly what that is, but it really is the only, the most consistent factor is having some sort of spiritual experience or like, you know, like an awakening experience.

[B]

Studies show. Studies show that people that do what other. The studies show that sober people that do what other sober people do in order to stay sober have better odds of staying sober. So like, there's not a black and white, one size fits all. And you can try another method or another avenue that could equate to the same result. But I got to a point where the stakes were way too high and I was tired of rolling the dice and I kind of wanted to start working smarter, not harder. So I just bought into what the group does in order to stay sober. But the funny thing was, you said it, you know, it's all a thinking problem. Right. And I always have this alcoholic brain that lies to me, my own voice, and it always makes me believe the unbelievable and it creates these delusional narratives. And I walked around for years thinking that no one in this world knew that I had a problem but me.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah, Like, I thought that I was kind of keeping it contained just enough to continue to enable my behaviors, which is getting high and justifying the outcomes.

[A]

That's crazy. You really didn't think people were like, hip to you at all?

[B]

Not nearly as much. So I didn't. Right. I thought that no one in the world knew that I had a problem but me. And then when I finally bought into the process, what I learned is that everyone in the world knew that I had a problem but me.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

I was the last person. Why? Because I possessed that job that consists.

[A]

Of knowing everything that's really funny.

[B]

And I'm like, fuck. Right? And that's what I. Again, right. I was ignorant to the process and the reality of my alcoholism because I lived off of justification and minimization and deflection. Right. If only she didn't come home from work early, she wouldn't have found my needles on the table. If only the parole officer's fucking husband would have banged her out, she wouldn't have been mad and gave me a piss. Piss test that got me dirty and sentenced me to six months.

[A]

Yeah, it's always other people's.

[B]

Yeah. So finally the craziest thing happened. I started to take accountability for my actions and started pointing the finger inward and. And realizing that, whoa, like, it's me and my behaviors, and I started changing my behaviors and I started changing the outcomes, and I started to like the results I got. So it snowball affected into this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's just crossing that, like, threshold to even consider the possibility.

[B]

It was so simple, though. I missed it. Yeah, I overlooked it.

[A]

Yeah, dude. I think most people go their whole life without ever saying it.

[B]

But, dude, everyone says, what's the answer? What's the answer? What's the answer? If any of us had the answer, we would bottle that thing. We'd sell it. We'd be a billionaire a billion times over. I believe it's so simple as just helping one fucking person. Someone took the time to stop and help me. I, in turn, helped another 2 turn into 4, 4 turn into 8, 8 turn into 16. Before you know it, you're changing the narrative, which is ultimately changing the outcome. Come. It's. It's. It's so simple. Just slow down the process and help one person. Pardon the interruption. This may or may not be Sean Gardini speaking. And this may or may not be Sean Gardini on camera. Who is speaking and who is on camera is not important. I've come to tell you that Sean Gardini is doing standup comedy shows. The upcoming shows are In Cleveland, Ohio, December 8th. Buffalo, New York, December 10th. And Baltimore, Maryland, December 11th. Please come to those shows if you can. The tickets are@sean gardini.com. thank you.

[A]

Hear me out here. I failed to promote my shows in the Irvine Improv Socal I'm so fucking SoCal. I forgot to do the ads or make a flyer for the Irvine show. Oops, my bad. It's next weekend, Thanksgiving weekend. Friday, November 29, Saturday, November 30, two days faux shows come out to Irvine Improv. And I'll be honest, I'm not just saying. I'm not just saying this because I'm doing a show. I love Irvine. There's Irvine was the first place I went to in California. And I was telling someone recently, I'm like, I love Irvine. And they lived in la. And like you love. Are you like, are you kidding? Are you trying to be funny? I'm like, no, why? And apparently everyone from LA just snubs Irvine. Like I would never. You guys. Dude, Irvine rules. LA's Irvine. We're talking Laguna beach, we're talking Newport beach. Conservative ass stronghold down there in SoCal.

[B]

Dude.

[A]

Come out. I love Irvine. It's literally the first place I went to in California. I. I'm very excited to go there. I'm going to bring my whole family. We're all going to do Thanksgiving out there. It's going to be sick. So Irvine improv. Friday, November 29 Saturday, November 30 let's go. Let's show these LA pussies. Dude, who's really fucking SoCal. They're not fucking SoCal, they're North Vervine. Yeah. So how did you get into the recovery homes? When did you start that? And like, what was that like?

[B]

I, I had, I had. My get well job was washing dishes for $6 an hour in Levittown, Pennsylvania.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[B]

At a diner called Mary Ann's. At 38 years old, I'm busting suds in the back with a co worker who's fucking 14. My brain told me that. And this is after Skating Jackass Author. Yeah. Yeah. My brain told me I should have at the very least been the President of the United States. Not fucking busting suds with Brian here for six bucks an hour.

[A]

Yeah. What was that like?

[B]

Struggling. I had heard the word humility and it sounded cool and it rolled off the tongue. Right, but try swallowing that thing.

[A]

I'm 38 right now, dude. If I had to bust a sudden.

[B]

You leaving here and going back to Levittown, Pennsylvania to marry as diner shout out to rich and they were great guys and the owners. And busting suds for $6 an hour next to a 14 year old.

[A]

How long did you do that for?

[B]

One year.

[A]

That's long.

[B]

I had no idea what my Next move was going to be because my qualifications didn't state that I had any, like, you know, special qualities.

[A]

I know what you mean. You can't be like, yo, let me hop on a TV show real quick. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We're like, let me. I don't own a compute. I like, I skipped that whole. I went from skating to heroin. I wrote my book. Pen and paper. I can pawn laptops. Great. I don't use them even to this day. I don't email. I don't even. I got my first ever computer during COVID I used it seven times and gave it the fuck away.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, are you all like, do you fuck with like the Instagram and all that stuff?

[B]

I like that. But like, the thought of an app gives me anxiety.

[A]

I got what you're saying. Yeah.

[B]

And I'm just like, stubborn by nature. So.

[A]

So how. So you're, you're, you're busting the suds for a while. How did you get into the so.

[B]

But I started like that job that I thought was so fucking beneath me turned out to be the foundation of who I am today. And I think by social standards in regards, I could be considered a pretty successful guy. I have all these different businesses and properties and blah, blah, blah. But it all came from washing dishes. I started to like, show up early, I'd stay late. I took pride in washing these dishes. I called out one day in a whole year because of a snowstorm. Like, those behaviors started to change, that my outcome started to change. I started to become self sufficient for the first time in life. I was paying my own recovery house bill, 165 a week. I was buying my own groceries, my own cigarettes, not relying or depending on anyone. Yeah, I stopped, like, and then what happened was someone asked me to speak at a candlelight vigil. A candlelight vigil for someone who had passed away. And because you know, the 12 step program, AA and all that, it's anonymous, you know, really what's going on there. But when I spoke at that candlelit vigil for people who had lost their lives, someone like, had filmed it and it started making its rounds on social media. And then an organization reached out to me and they're like, would you like to come speak at our facility in Florida? And I'm like, sure. And they put me up at the W in Fort Lauderdale in the penthouse. And like, what the fuck are they going to like, ask me for a donation? I wash dishes. And they had come up with this whole design again, the blessings taking Place, unbeknownst to me, if I knew any of this was going to happen, I'd fuck it up royally.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah. And they had put together this whole plan and presented it to me, and I'm like, dude, I didn't even know this world existed that I live in today. And it just kind of gave way. And I bought into what they would say, and in those meetings, they'd say, like, in order to keep what you have, you have to give it away. And this is cliche as shit. And I vowed to myself that when I was in a position financially, I was going to recreate that sober living house I lived in. That's cool. And do for others what it had done for me. So, literally, on my fifth year anniversary, I opened up my. In Wilmington, Delaware, my very first men's sober living house called Novak's house, with 10 beds, and that has since turned into seven houses for men and women in Wilmington, Delaware, with 75 beds. And I fucking travel the world, and I have generous friends or just strangers that want to give back, and they occasionally stroke a check and they provide money that I have in the scholarship fund. And my mission is to provide a bed for anyone in need of sober living. After completing a treatment center, I refuse to let price be a deterrent as to why someone can't get help. Help. And then, unfortunately, the demand was met. I kept expanding, and I really wished that that wasn't the case. And these didn't even exist.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And I'm like, dude, I can. I can help more and I can be better. So then I created Redemption Addiction Treatment center in Wilmington, Delaware. Well, in Newport.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right next to it down there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's a. An outpatient facility where people come during the day, you know, five days a week, or nighttime groups. And I've. I. I always tell people, I. I try. I'm trying to. I'm on par to create like a. A David Koresh, Waco, Texas, compound vibe, minus the gun and the religion. Yeah. But I want to create this place where people feel like they want to be a part. Right. It's all deliverance. Like, I started this podcast. It's all with how you present something to me. Right. So. So what I try to do is, is to create this whole fucking environment that people want to be a part at as opposed to feeling like they have to.

[A]

Yeah. What's. What was your. Do you have any. Like, when you went to any treatment centers, did you have ones that you felt like you hear? Some people, like, I place a Fucking scam. They're just fucking taking my money. Like, did you have any places you thought were just like churning people in and out or you think that's just people's like, perception of the place?

[B]

I think it's. And it's just opinion based. I think it's people's perception. The treatment center that I ultimately got sober in, people would be like, you'll never get sober there. It cost me $2 to get into. It was a Catholic charities in Baltimore. And if you looked out, you weren't allowed to look out the blinds because if you looked out, they were literally serving dope and coke and crack on the corner. It was like a bottom of the barrel kind of joint.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I believe it takes what it takes until it takes. And who are you or I to say what it will be for it to take?

[A]

That makes sense.

[B]

It's between you and the maker of whatever you choose to fucking call it. Because they don't. It's not like once you get to this appropriate program, they give you this secret pill for the cool kids. It's fucking recycled rhetoric that you hear in all the facilities.

[A]

It's. Yeah, that does make sense.

[B]

I believe the perfect treatment center is whichever one you get sober in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't have a say. I didn't get to pick my sober date.

[A]

Yeah, true.

[B]

Again, that's. That was a blessing.

[A]

They gave you the right massage.

[B]

They gave me a happy ending with a massage. And they played my favorite song. Turn me around and I come God. And here we are. I'm the spiritual guru. Your way into recovery. That's not the deal.

[A]

Yeah, true. There is a very unsexy element to it. Or you're saying like, yeah, you can be in like a place that people think sucks. Really. It really is a holy internal process.

[B]

I'm a firm believer you can get sober in a pub sitting on a bar stool with a bottle of Jack in front of you, if you're ready.

[A]

Yeah. What do you. What do you think about, like the California sobriety people do where it's like, I'm California sober. I'll like drink and smoke weed and shit.

[B]

And like, dude, I just. I did this TMZ thing. They did a special recently. Omad Matthew Perry.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I read his book. Brilliant book, by the way. Whole newfound respect for that man. Rest in peace to him. But they were doing this hour long documentary, Harvey and them, and they reached out and they wanted me to weigh in on it. And they asked me the same question. And the truth of the matter is I'd be really ignorant if I sat here and pretended to possess the answer of, like, how to live a perfect life with coming up on 10 years sober. That's like my mother be like, fuck you, asshole. You should have did it your whole life, you idiot. So, like, all I know is my narrative because it worked for me. I'm never going to tell anybody what you should or should not do. I believe with California, Sober, with Mat, Suboxone, Subutex, Vivitrol, Methadone. If it provides you a life that you believe is worth waking up and getting out of bed for every morning without the thought of wanting to kill yourself, I'll fucking drive you to the dispensary. You know what I mean? Like me for thinking that I have the answer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I just have my narrative. So. So what I always say is that when I'm kind of giving a talk or working with clients, if you can find more similarities than differences, it might make sense to pay attention. Attention.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if not, that's cool too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Because everyone, at the end of the day, you're entitled to your own process. You were entitled to have that realization during COVID of, like, being a. To strangers that did nothing to you.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And if I would have robbed you of that process, you might not have come to the conclusion that you have today, where just being kind is the right way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So looking back, if anyone would have robbed me of. Of one less sleepless night I caused my mother or. Or pain that I. And made everyone endure, like, I might not be here today.

[A]

Yeah, that makes sense. So it's kind of a personal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Timeline for everybody, for sure.

[B]

And yeah. It's like. And I'm not saying that my way is the right way. It's just my fucking way.

[A]

Yeah. You know, because I know that's a big battle. When I was in social work school, there's like, people who are like. It's called, like, harm reduction. People who are like, nothing. You better knock all this.

[B]

I'm a big harm reduction guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And at the end of the day, it's like, who the fuck. Like, that's between them and their higher power.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, all of a sudden I believe I'm God and I can predict what your fucking best outcome will be for your life in your situation.

[A]

Yeah, true.

[B]

And I'm a spiritual guy. And if I'm a spiritual guy like I say I am, where's my spirituality? If I judge your spirituality. Yeah, Right. So, like, I believe my Higher power is everything. I think it's crack. I think it's heroin. I think it's life, death. It's like, what's love without sadness? What's joy without sorrow? Right. You have to have all these without those overdoses, without life support, without ruining my life. I would not be the child of, I hate to say God, because people are like, oh, this religious. But a child of God today who I really like, do my best to help humanity. I wouldn't be here. I'd still be in that position of like, what the fuck's wrong with you? You think you have it figured out, you idiot. You deserve what you get.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And that's where I'd probably be. Yeah.

[A]

Well, it is funny, people. I. I've talked about this before, but it is funny how that is like the God talks taboo now. Before, it was like, you couldn't talk about sex. Now you can be like, I'm jizzing. Everyone's like, ah. If you're like, yeah, they had the.

[B]

Whole me too movement at that point.

[A]

True. Yeah, yeah, that. But if you mentioned God, people are like, what the fuck? And it's like a pretty wholesome, you know, it's a. I think it's a very wholesome concept, but it got tainted by, I think, people just being like. Like the religion aspect of being like, you're going to hell because you fucking.

[B]

For sure, and that's a shame. But. But you need those people, right? Those people are just as important as the other ones that aren't those people to make me realize how much I don't want to be like that. Because without those people, I'll turn into that person. Person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I don't have like a. A warning sign or like, yeah, like, who I don't. I need the bad to remind me what I don't want to become. So I practice. Good.

[A]

Yeah. And I wonder if that's. If it's gonna, like. Because every. Even like religions, like, concepts of God, like, go through waves where it's like, we used to think it was like fucking fire, and now we are like, there was like the mythological hero of, like, there's these entities in the sky that we can, like, you know, be like, hey, please help us. That'll change everything. And then like that. That around an organized testament of, this is the guy who came down from heaven and Amnita. So now I wonder if it is going to regroup in some different conception that people will universally buy into, or it'll just be like a fractured thing Forever.

[B]

The older I get at 45, I see that things just evolve, but then just come back around. I was looking on the plane the other day and there's this chick who has. As you see, these new things are the big headphones, Apple Pros, where your mom used to have it back in the 80s. And no one's doing the air pods anymore. It's just like Miami Vice. Like fucking color schemes and chicks wearing baggy ass jeans have now come back.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So it's like, just live long enough and you'll realize that like shit's not that heavy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's going to be okay. And the fact of the matter is you don't really have much say so in any of it anyways. Yeah, for me that's. Yeah, that's what I do. And I just kind of remain like, you know, I don't know what I remained. It just depends on when you ask me.

[A]

No, that's true. So. And then, you know, I'm curious too. So. Yeah, you were doing the, the Viva labam stuff and all that stuff fell out. Like, what. So what happened with all of like all the people from Jackass? You guys, all. You guys all still talk or like, where did like, was there like a big falling out or like what happened?

[B]

Nah, I mean, everyone's good. I was just with Steve o la a couple weeks ago.

[A]

Yeah, he's kind of doing his thing.

[B]

He's killing it. Pontius, I love him. I, I speak with him and those two guys I probably speak to more regularly than, than the most. Bam is, you know, battling his own demons. And unfortunately because of that, we seem to be in two different places where there's just not a lot in common at the moment for sure. So we don't really just pick up the phone and chat. I think if I had to make a prediction of what would kind of connect us again, it would probably be skateboarding. That's always been the common bond and theme throughout our relationship.

[A]

Do you still skateboard?

[B]

Yeah, but for my mental health now, obviously not like as like.

[A]

Yeah, you just. Yeah, you just do it for fun.

[B]

Yeah, I try to carve out time to, to like, just get in a van and go with the homies and film and just like shut everything off.

[A]

That's kind of tight.

[B]

Another like, you know, Brandon Turner. Shout out to Brandon Turner. He's on the west coast killing. He's a sober guy. A lot of skaters have become sober and they're kind of doing their own thing with recovery. And I was talking to him yesterday. And we're gonna fly out. I'm gonna fly out there kind of. We're working on a project together possibly. And, you know, so oddly enough, the ones that we used to party and run with and fucking go crazy with have now found, like, this new way of life. It's really attractive. And we joined forces to just kind of hopefully promote a healthy way of living.

[A]

Yeah, it is funny, especially if you think about the origins of, like, jackass was, like, the possibly unhealthiest, most insane way of living.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Possible. And it was so fun to watch. It was awesome. But it is funny to come full circle. Like, now. We've all actually chilled out immensely.

[B]

And, dude, Steve O. Is, like, so fucking sober. There was a point in time where I thought about asking him to be my sponsor, and I'm like, dude, I don't know if I want to get, like, that sober.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, he's like. He's like, shout out to him, but he's, like, someone that motivates me, but he's like, you know what I mean? He's authentically, like, what you see is what you get, and who he is is who he is, and it does not waver no matter where or what he's doing. It's brilliant.

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty cool, man. And it's also one of those things, like sobriety, again, if you're just kind of kicking around, you're going out to get drinks every Sunday, you don't necessarily have, let's say, a problem quote. Yeah, it is one of those things that I think when you're drinking a lot or partying, it almost seems alien. But it, like, if you really, like, strip it down from, like, you know, take substances out of it. I always thought it's a really, like. It's cool for a person to be able to remain with their thoughts in their own state of consciousness rather than, you know, you constantly escape it. It's like, totally get stoned. I'm gonna get that. And you're constantly jumping out, jumping out, jumping out. But I think that is a ser. Like, a serious, like, sign of mental strength to, like, hang. People do, like, sober October, which. That must be kind of funny when, like, the whole world's like, we're gonna be sober for one month.

[B]

But I've seen me do that, so, like, fuck, yeah, I'm all about it.

[A]

True, true. But it's got to be funny. You have, like, 10 years. Like, oh, I'm glad you're having fun. There is something, I think, that Is like, especially the older you get, it's like, it does take mental strength to, like, sit with yourself, you know, not being able to kind of leave your consciousness, like, a little bit by, you know, doing like, I want to get a little high, I want to do this, blah, blah. And I think it's like, it's a genuine virtue that I think gets skipped over. People are kind of like, yeah, dude, I'm gonna have a couple beers. That, like, people kind of dismiss it a lot, especially when you're drinking. Drinking. But I always thought it was like a. It's pretty hard to do. It's like, it's very hard to do. And it's. It takes like, you know, when you can't kind of jump out of yourself for a little bit, it forces you to work through, you know, the kind of, you know, whatever broken gears in your head.

[B]

I make a point to let people know that in my programs, right. Because the people that I'm working with, they're coming in. They have a week, they have two weeks, they have four days, they have one day. And. And they're sitting in there and they're feeling like they're. They're not a enough. They could be doing more. They should be further along. And. And I'm like, look what you're doing. The majority of society is not. Who wants to strip away their escape routes, to be forced to look at themselves. Right. With themselves, by themselves, without having any drink or drug to escape the terrible reality that you've created as a result of your addiction and man up and walk through it. I'm like, I will walk with you people. People. You people are the ones that I want on my team right now, like, at over 10 years. And I'm. You are the people that I with. Right. Like, and there's a lot to be said with that, because I don't just give my time to anybody.

[A]

Sure. Yeah.

[B]

So it's like, I. I really make it a point because I know in early sobriety, it's like a, you know, those. Those weak five days, 30 days, 60 days. It's like a. Of sobriety. It's like a bipolar roller coaster ride from hell.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can be above heaven high, the wind can blow. Wrong. You're like, below hell low trying to figure what the fuck just happened. So it's important to give people the credit of. It takes a lot of work to end up in that position for fucking two days sober. Yeah. And I always say it takes so much longer to get two days sober than it will to get two years sober.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you're just sitting there looking at the clock and you're like, should I, Should I not? Can I, Can I not? Should I say fuck it and just do it? Should I not do it? You're still consumed with the actual drink or drug. You're just not partaking at that moment.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And to make it through that, to. To address all these ailments and start to look at you without an escape, that's. That's big, boy. Yeah.

[A]

It sucks.

[B]

And most people don't do it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And that's okay. I need those people that don't do it to show me why I really need to keep doing it.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

Right? It's all perspective. Because they told me at treatment if I changed my perception, I could change my world. World.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I bought into that, you know, and it. Believe it or not, they were right.

[A]

Yeah. No, it's. It's pretty sick, man. I'm happy for you, man. That's awesome.

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's like I. I'm stoked, I'm grateful. But who really is, is like my mother, my. My friends, my. My employees, my. My. The police, the probation, the parole officers, the judges. You know, life has become a better place to be in with my sobriety, not only for me, but for other people. Yeah.

[A]

And I always, like you were saying the service thing's big because especially when you're like, you know, if you're in the. Even with or without drugs, if you're just like living a negative existence, you're usually convinced, like, in order to conquer my own negative existence, I have to achieve at some level that just somehow like shuts all this down and people will realize and they'll like me. Whereas, like, in recovery, it's like. Or you can just like help people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it gets the same thing. Like, if you're like, lonely, it's like, well, rather than trying to be the man, just go volunteer. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you'll get that. Like, it's like a quick route into kind of like a social. A nice social existence. And everyone just is like, no, I have to conquer the world.

[B]

Yeah. It's. It's too easy. It's too simple.

[A]

It's really fun. I always thought it was kind of funny.

[B]

It's like, it's a. It's a simple approach for an over complicated thinker.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And that's why I say smart people generally have a hard time getting it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I had to dumb my way into this position. And that was through me being, being beaten into a state of reasonableness as a direct result of my behaviors. But it doesn't have to get that way, right. Like my, one of my business partners, I met him in treatment. It was his first attempt ever at getting sober. And he's remained sober. Really.

[A]

He was like.

[B]

So it's like, that's the frustrating thing. Most people are like, well, why, why can't my level get it at number one? Why does he have to get to 13 like you? It's, there's no black and white fight. It's such an individualized process. And if you look at the statistics, it's very sad because it states that you're not going to win. But I'm here to fucking say that not only am I going to win, I'm going to fucking kill it. I'm going to own it and it's going to turn into be my biggest blessing. And if I can do it, so the fuck can you. There's nothing different between us except for what I was willing to do.

[A]

Yeah, I mean that's, yeah, I'm sure that's gotta be like, it's really rewarding too, like you were saying, having the groups and seeing like even a couple people kind of take off. Because I guess if you really look at the recovery homes is like, if this doesn't work for me, this whole place is bullshit. Or being like, for sure you gotta, someone's gotta do something. What is like the opiate with overdoses going down, are they still going up.

[B]

Or like I'm not a big stats guy. I don't look at numbers. I just kind of fucking remain ignorant to it and live in my own world.

[A]

Yeah, we don't hear about it as much anym. It like dominated everything for a while.

[B]

After covet alcohol became a big thing.

[A]

Oh yeah?

[B]

Yeah. So I have a lot of alcoholics in my facility now.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

And then meth's making a pretty big.

[A]

Yeah, meth, big push.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Come back.

[B]

A lot of people got off heroin or fentanyl with meth.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I've heard, I've, I've known people who have like off the heroin, meth comes into the picture and they're like, damn, I'm actually super productive.

[B]

And I do, I, I work with the dea. I'm like a keynote speaker for the DEA at these summits that they have all over the nation. And I, I was just doing an event with them in St. Louis and they were like, yeah, cocaine's making a Big comeback. We're busting down big shipments of cocaine. So kind of like how I said Miami Vice was cool, it all comes crack could be cool again soon with, like, 80s, you know. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that's usually how the world works.

[A]

Do you think they should legalize drugs? You think that'd be easier to help people, or you think it would make things worse?

[B]

I think so. You know, I don't know about legalizing it, but I do believe in, like, safe injection sites. And Philly was going to be the first place to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they shut it down at the midnight hour. And their fear was that, like, it could trigger others in the community to want to get high. And I don't. Maybe that's the case. But for me, I would never walk past a safe injection site and be like, I think I want to go in there and shoot up heroin.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think it would. I think they did this London or Britain, whatever, years ago.

[B]

I believe it works in Sweden, I think maybe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what you. What I think will be beautiful about it is you use it as a portal, right. They get. It's a major harm reduction approach. They give you clean needles, clean water, clean cotton.

[A]

And they test, obviously.

[B]

And then they test the drugs. And the majority of the people that are in there don't really want to be in there anymore.

[A]

That's kind of what I.

[B]

It's lost its allure.

[A]

Exactly. You're under, like. You're in, like, a doctor's bed.

[B]

Yeah. You're being fucking monitored as you shoot up with. With some weird guy to make sure you don't die, to inject you with Narcan. So at the very least, when you do say you're ready, bam, we have avenues to get you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. But now check this out. Me being a major advocate for that. Right. I own where I live in Old City, right. In Philly, and a really nice place. And someone said to me, they said, well, would you want it next to your house? And I'm like, ah, no. Yeah. Because it fucked my property value up. Right. And I'm just being transparent over for sure. So there's two sides to every coin.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Then, you know, ex. With that. You're gonna have people like papa door handles and all this. And it's like.

[B]

Yeah. Because you're, like, straight up. So I, you know, I. I really just try to remain like Switzerland in a lot of places. Neutral and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And adapt accordingly.

[A]

At least you're honest. Because I I heard people would be like, I wouldn't care. And it's like.

[B]

But yeah, sure, you, You. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's just the truth of the matter now. Not saying that, like. Like, you know, if I. If the opportunity presented itself and they were going to do it, I would still back it. But in my mind, I'm like, but couldn't you just go a neighborhood over? You know, like, I wouldn't vote no on it. Let's put it that way. I would not vote no on it, but I would definitely vote for it to be in the next neighborhood over.

[A]

For sure. Yeah, everybody would.

[B]

Yeah. So it's just, you know, I don't know. It's such a individualized thing. I don't know what the approach is, except for just taking the time to help one person. Yeah, that's it. One person.

[A]

True.

[B]

And that one person who helped me. Just think about all the heroin that I stopped injecting, all the people I stopped hurting. The one less needle that's being found on your kid's playground because I stopped shooting up. Yeah, it goes that far.

[A]

It's crazy. And again, like you were saying, like, people, you get kind of mired in the cliche of it, but it is pretty nuts to think about that. Like, if, you know, that guy that day had been like, fuck him. I don't feel like doing this. You were saying, your mom's upset, but you're burning bridges, you're ripping off, you're going to jail, all this. And it's like, it's pretty crazy when you think about the ripple effect.

[B]

And I believe that that's the approach that will change the outcome. I mean, it's. It's put it this way. So in Delaware, where all my sober living houses are my treatment center as well, we really wanted the community to see, because in there they said, well, we don't really want them in our neighborhood. Right. I get it. So one of the stipulations with Novak's house is when it snows, you have to go out and you shovel your neighbor's porch in their driveway. And, like, you be kind to humanity and society. And. And then that was working. And it snowball affected into the guys and women living in Novak's house, they started getting jobs within the community.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

And then the people who own the businesses that started hiring the Novak House clients, they saw something different in them. Same thing that happened to me. I'd show up to work early, I'd stay late. I took pride in washing dishes. They're like, where are you? What's. Cause they aren't. It's just different. And they're like, where are you from? What's the backstory like? Oh, we live in this place called Novak's House. It's a sober house. And what the business owners within the community did on their own. I wish I could take credit for this, is they created a private Facebook page called Novak's House Hires. And if any of these businesses need employees, they put a post up that goes to the Novak's House only. And then if any of the Novak's House people need a job, they put their resume or what their qualifications are. That's cool because, like, they're seeing the good that they're creating through the ethics and behaviors. And like, it's taking on a whole life of its own. Right. So, like, it snowball effects. You know, it. It. Then it opens the window for people wanting to hire people in recovery where before it was Taboo shied away from you. Don't do that. They'll rob you. They'll lie to you, they'll steal from you. I'm here to prove that that's not the fucking reality of all of. But, like, for sure, I know what you're saying.

[A]

Yeah, it can be done.

[B]

But you know, the old saying is if you. If you haven't been ripped off in aa, you're not helping enough newcomers.

[A]

No, that makes sense. But that's fucking awesome, man.

[B]

Yeah. And again, I couldn't. I'm not creative enough or intelligent enough to create that. It's just me stepping out and letting the process play out.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Well, dude, I think that's it, man. Thank you so much, bro. I really appreciate it.

[B]

I enjoyed this.

[A]

I'm pumped to hear about that. And I enjoyed it too, man. I'm really happy to hear. You know, it's good to hear people taking their time to help the world, like, that's still a thing. Because I think a lot of people.

[B]

For sure just get so.

[A]

And it's. It's not like a bad thing ever.

[B]

I would say I'm guilty of it too. Getting consumed in the rat race.

[A]

I'm the worst. Yeah. I have to jump out of it every day.

[B]

Straight up.

[A]

Fuck am I doing with myself?

[B]

Yeah. Once you hit to that point where you hit the wall, Right?

[A]

Yeah, Daily. Yeah.

[B]

Same, Same. I wake up every morning with a brain that wants to kill me on a layaway plan.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Install in a plan of just like one defect at a time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. So anyone out there that might need help, you can reach me directly at 610-314-6747. Call me and if you you need help with getting treatment.

[A]

Nice. Well, thank you so much.

[B]

Love you, brother.

[A]

See you, bro. Love you. Thank you.