Maximum Lawyer Podcast: A Frank Discussion About Vendors That Charge Too Much

Release Date: February 25, 2025
Host: Tyson Mutrux
Description: Are you running or starting your own law firm? This is your podcast.

1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Maximum Lawyer, host Tyson Mutrux is joined by Becca Eberhart, CEO at Maximum Lawyer, for an impromptu discussion in Scottsdale. Originally scheduled to feature a guest for the upcoming Q1 mastermind, unforeseen circumstances led to a spontaneous conversation focusing on a pressing issue within the legal industry: vendors charging exorbitant fees and failing to deliver promised services.

Timestamp: [01:29]

2. The Genesis of the Conversation

Becca introduces the topic by referencing a guild member's post that resonated deeply within the Maximum Lawyer community. The post details a common frustration among law firm owners: engaging vendors who fail to meet specified requirements after payment, leading to wasted time and resources.

Becca Eberhart:
"[03:31] 'Does this happen to anyone else?...I ultimately usually just abandon what I'm doing and what I had already paid for.'"

3. Shared Frustrations with Vendor Practices

Tyson echoes Becca's sentiments, highlighting his own experiences with vendors who demanded substantial upfront payments but failed to deliver as promised. This recurring issue not only affects financial aspects but also erodes trust between law firms and service providers.

Tyson Mutrux:
"[04:03] 'I've had frustrations with vendors. I mean, like paid tens of thousands of dollars upfront and then not get the things that they say that they're going to give.'"

Becca emphasizes that such practices are not isolated incidents but rather widespread issues that the community frequently encounters.

Becca Eberhart:
"[04:56] 'And I believe that good customer service goes a long way. And I think that I see a lot in this industry, meaning vendors that serve law firm owners, trapping them into contracts as a way to create retention in their own business.'"

4. The Perception of Law Firms as Difficult Clients

A pivotal discussion emerges around the notion that law firms might be perceived as demanding or difficult clients. Tyson contemplates whether the stringent expectations of legal entrepreneurs contribute to the challenging vendor relationships.

Tyson Mutrux:
"[08:25] 'Maybe we just expect them to deliver what they say they're going to deliver. And maybe that's what it is.'"

Becca counters this by sharing her observations that legal entrepreneurs are distinct from traditional lawyers, often being more entrepreneurial and demanding, yet deserving of exceptional service.

Becca Eberhart:
"[09:08] 'No... I identify them as legal entrepreneurs where I think that other people... just think of them as lawyers. And I think that those are two different people.'"

5. The Impact of Contract Models on Vendor Relationships

The conversation delves into the prevalence of long-term contracts in the legal industry. Becca expresses frustration over vendors' reluctance to adopt more flexible models, such as month-to-month agreements, which can foster better accountability and customer satisfaction.

Becca Eberhart:
"[18:54] 'I truly feel like they're behind. I feel like the vendors that serve law firm owners are behind in not switching to this model and they're just hanging on for dear life to the contract model.'"

Tyson adds that some legal services, like legal research platforms, still adhere to outdated contract models, making it difficult for firms to switch providers without significant commitments.

Tyson Mutrux:
"[19:29] 'I think the whole idea was to buy it and then burn to the ground so that they have one less competitor.'"

6. Exploring Alternative Solutions: The Zoho Example

A notable part of the discussion revolves around Tyson's shift from traditional, lawyer-targeted software solutions to more versatile platforms like Zoho. He contrasts Zoho with industry-specific tools like Clio, highlighting Zoho's cost-effectiveness and comprehensive features despite not being exclusively marketed to legal professionals.

Tyson Mutrux:
"[13:17] 'Look at Zoho's pricing versus let's say any other case management system on the market... Zoho offers way more than what Clio does... they can get away with charging lawyers more money.'"

Becca questions how law firm owners can confidently choose non-specialized services, but Tyson explains that necessity and cost-effectiveness often drive such decisions.

Becca Eberhart:
"[15:26] 'When you decided to go with Zoho, is this the first time that you've gone with like a software that wasn't marketed specifically to you?'"

Tyson Mutrux:
"[15:26] 'I stumbled on it... It was just kind of stumbled on it.'"

7. Negotiation Tactics and Empowering Law Firms

One of the most insightful segments revolves around effective negotiation strategies with vendors. Becca and Tyson share personal anecdotes illustrating the power of prepared negotiation and the importance of setting clear terms from the outset.

Becca Eberhart:
"[24:12] 'Know that you're committing the time it takes to do the communications and figure out what works best for you.'"

Tyson Mutrux:
"[25:15] 'You write the check out in advance... understanding that you can actually say no, not paying that and be willing to walk.'"

Becca adds practical advice, emphasizing that while not all situations warrant negotiation, being proactive can lead to substantial savings and better service terms.

Becca Eberhart:
"[23:48] 'Any tips for people dealing with vendors?... How often do you think that law firm owners like you are even negotiating?'"

8. The Path Forward: Building Accountability and Changing Norms

The episode concludes with both hosts expressing a strong commitment to fostering change within the industry. Becca teases a forthcoming solution aimed at enhancing accountability among vendors, signaling a proactive approach to tackling the outlined challenges.

Becca Eberhart:
"[21:24] 'We have a solution that's going to help with this issue that does not exist yet.'"

Tyson shares his optimism about the new initiative, believing it will significantly reduce the prevalence of vendor failures and improve overall service quality for law firms.

Tyson Mutrux:
"[23:20] 'And I think that the thing, the idea that you came up is going to make that less likely in the future.'"

9. Final Thoughts and Empowerment

Both Tyson and Becca emphasize the importance of perseverance and advocacy in transforming vendor relationships. They encourage law firm owners to take control, demand better services, and not settle for inadequate offerings.

Becca Eberhart:
"[21:18] 'And I think that we, meaning you, you guys as business owners, like you actually have to take the action on it, question it, ask for a better deal.'"

Tyson Mutrux:
"[28:09] 'And what's the worst thing that's going to happen? You're going to say no.'"

Conclusion

This episode of Maximum Lawyer provides a candid exploration of the challenges law firms face with vendors, offering both personal experiences and strategic advice. By highlighting the need for better negotiation, more flexible contract models, and increased accountability, Tyson and Becca aim to empower legal entrepreneurs to foster more transparent and mutually beneficial relationships with their service providers. The discussion underscores the importance of proactive measures and community-driven solutions in overcoming systemic industry issues.

Note: For more insights and updates, consider tuning into future episodes of Maximum Lawyer or joining the upcoming Q1 mastermind event.