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- [00:03]
A
If you're a law firm owner who thinks like a business owner, not just a lawyer, this is for you. July 17th and 18th, we're hosting our next in person Mastermind in New York City. We're kicking off with a strategy workshop with Jessica Gonifiss of Silver Peaks Accounting. Dialing in your numbers so you can make smart CEO level moves. Then it's straight into Mastermind Hot seats. No fluff, no filters, just real strategy, real feedback and breakthroughs. Plus, we're hosting an exclusive dinner. Bring a plus one. Connect deeply and build the kind of relationships that transform businesses. If you're ready to think bigger, move faster and scale smarter, get your Mastermind ticket@maxlaw events.com.
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B
This is maximum Lawyer with your host, Tyson Mutrix. Welcome back to another Saturday episode of Maximum Lawyer. I'm Tyson Mutrix. I have a really good episode that's a follow up to last week's episode. You don't have to listen to both of them. Last week was with David Haskins and I was asking him because I just think he's a brilliant marketing mind. If a law firm wants to dominate in 2030, what should they focus on? This week I'm actually going to be talking about a question I asked Ryan Weber, who I also think is a brilliant marketing mind. A lot of people in the guild refer to him as Tiffany Weber's husband. So Tiffany Weber is a, is a guild member and also just a fantastic attorney and is great at marketing herself. But Ryan and I have gotten to know each other. I have got this sort of weird thing where I mentally think of him as Jeremy. So sometimes if I ever refer to someone as Jeremy Weber on the podcast, just know I'm referring to Ryan for some reason. It's one of those, you know, brainworms that just stuck in my head and I just, for some reason will refer to him as Jeremy Weber, but his name is actually Ryan Weber. And the question that I asked him was, it was the, it was a little different. It was a variation of the question that I asked David Haskins. And this question is, if a law firm wants to dominate in 2030, what marketing should they stop focusing on? Right. And before I get to his response, because it's really good, I'm going to play it for you. I it's about a couple minutes. You're going to hear his daughter in the background, which I think is fun. I think it adds to the, adds to the audio. But the. Before I get to that, though, I do want to remind you that if you do Want to text me? I would love to hear from you. I always love hearing from people. We get great messages all the time. Text me at 314-501-9260. I will respond. All right, so don't. It's funny. Sometimes I'll respond and people say, oh, I didn't expect someone to actually respond to me. So 314-501-9260 it is an iPhone, so you will get the blue bubbles. You're not going to get the green bubbles, you're going to get the blue bubbles if that matters to any of you. But I'd love to hear from you if you have something you want me to cover on the show or if you just have a question about something. It doesn't matter if you're just starting out. If you've been doing this for a long time, I would love to hear from you. All right, let's jump into this response. So again, the question that I asked Ryan was if a law firm wants to dominate in 2030, what marketing should they stop focusing on now? And if you disagree with what he has to say or if you do agree, I'd love to hear from you. So text me. And that would be fantastic. So here's what, here's what Ryan has to say.
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C
So your question is like a losing question. It's really difficult. So I appreciate that.
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B
I like how he starts off the bat. It's a losing question. But you know what? Maybe right. But here we go.
- [04:03]
C
What would a law firm that wants to dominate in 2030 stop doing in their marketing right now if that's their goal? So I have to reverse engineer this and say, well, in 2030, what do I think law firms are going to be needing to do to be successful? First thing I think they need to do is build a brand. I think with AI and the evolution of technology, you're going to have a bigger disparity. So I think the law firms, the boutique law firms that can build a really solid brand are going to stand out. I think the big, big law firms that have a ton of money, they can dump into all this AI and technology and have automations that is also going to stand out. But the little guys that are just individuals that might not have as much money, all of that kind of stuff, I think they're going to struggle because I think building a human personalized brand, a unique brand, is super important. So hot take here. What would I stop doing? I would stop putting so much focus and effort into Google and ranking first in Google. I think that is something that a lot of law firms are doing right now that's winning. I just think Google is going to be less important in 2030 than it is right now.
- [05:24]
B
All right, I'm going to pause for a second. I, I 100% agree. There's a couple things I would, I would want to get clarification from. But the thing. I wholeheartedly agree. And it's already playing out. Google's traffic has already dropped 80 or 30%. All right. It's expected to drop by 50% by 2028. It seems like it's happening faster than that. That's. I just did a presentation in the Guild a couple weeks ago about really designing a lot of your websites for the LLMs and not necessarily for Google. It'll benefit you with the, with Google as well, but designing them for the LLMs. ChatGPT Gemini, which is a Google product, obviously. However, it's not Google. It's not a, it's not a Google search engine. It's. It's an LLM right Grok. Designing them for those. That is, that is the future of where we're headed. The thing that, about the brand, I, and I don't know if I want to say I disagree, but I do know that the whole idea of the influencer, there's going to be at some point where that sort of dies off a little bit. And he may not mean that. And I just. So I will say I'm going to give Ryan the credit, that benefit of the doubt, he may not even mean that. Branding is branding. It's been around for, you know, decades. And I do agree with. There's going to be haves and have nots and the branding is really, really important. But it's kind of like if you think about like reality stars, that that is, that's. It's not what it was like in the early 2000. That's kind of faded. I do think that the whole idea of this influencer, though, the curtains have been pulled back on the people that, you know, they, they, all these gurus and experts, you know, they, they, they're not in the trenches doing the work. They're just, they just talk about all the time. The curtain has been pulled back on that quite a bit with, with Chad GPT and a lot of people just realizing that those are just phonies. So I think that that has led to a drop in the whole influence of the influencer. But I can talk about maybe more about that in another episode going on more of a tangent about that. Another episode. But setting that part aside, I'm not really, I don't really think that that's what Ryan meant. I definitely think that there's going to be haves and have nots. So if you're not working on AI agents right now, you're going to want to start, too, because there's going to be people that are left behind in this, I think. And so I definitely think you want to, you want to get started on that. But let's listen to the rest of this.
- [07:58]
C
I think if you can build that unique custom boutique brand experience where it's like, I don't feel like I'm going to a law firm. I feel like I'm having some sort of, like, experience there, whatever that may be. And it's unique, it's different. It's not your run of the mill, like, oh, I just do a better service. No, like, stand out somehow. Like, maybe your office is on a farm. Like, I don't know. I'm saying that because I'm sitting here taking our daughter to the farm. But that I think, is the play for law firms. And so stop putting so much focus into Google and SEO right now and start building your brand. I think law firms need to have and should think of themselves as a media company and a PR firm. And I think those ones that have the personal brand are going to crush it in 2030.
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B
Yeah, I do. I do agree with that and with the rest of Ryan's message. I think it does seem to indicate that, you know, we're not, he's not really talking about the, the influencer model. Branding, to me is a little bit different. There is a lot of what he has to say. It's, it's backed up by what Seth Godin's talking about, too, where you've got, like, the face of the firm, where, where that's what's going to drive people to your firm. You know, the, the know, like, trust that David was talking about in last week's episode. So if you, if you listen to that episode and now you're listening to this episode, he talks about, you've got to do the know, like and trust. Absolutely agree. And I now, I bet if I had Ryan right here, which I could, I could have him here. If I could probably call him right now, he'd probably answer the phone. I'm not going to do that. But I bet he would say he actually wouldn't stop doing completely Google right now, but if he had to, that's what he's talking about. So I'm also going to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. I don't think he really literally means you should just stop doing Google right now. I gave him a very difficult question. However, if you're forced to. We're already devoting resources away from Google and we're still investing in Google Ads and we are still investing in SEO. But we're shifting a lot of our efforts over into targeting the LLMs. That's what our focus is. And we're building our website for that because. And I'm a little bit scared, by the way, because we, I don't have a crystal ball. No one does. I'm a little scared that the website's gonna become irrelevant. I am a little bit afraid of that. However, we're gonna be ready in case we need to be, that our websites are designed for the LLMs so that people can find us that way. But that's all I have. I think both of these, both of these responses have been very interesting. Hopefully you've gotten something about it out of them. I would like. I said, if you disagree with either one of them, agree with either one of them. Have some sort of different thing you want to say about what you should really be focusing on to get ready by 2030 or things you should stop doing to get ready for 2030. I would love to hear about it. That's five years away. It's going to happen faster than you think. You just think about this, what happened in 2020, right? And that, that's, that was five years ago. That's kind of, kind of crazy to think right now that it's, it's already been five years. But that is all I have for you. I, I've enjoyed both of these episodes. So keep your questions coming. I would love to hear them. 314-501-9260 that's all I have for this week. Before I do go, I do want to remind everyone that maxlockon tickets are going to go back on sale soon, so be ready for the announcement on that. The tickets are going to come back on sale on May 1st, so maxlawcon.com you can also go to maxlawvents.com make sure you're ready because we're doing these in windows. The early access window has already passed, so make sure that you are ready for them to go on sale again on May 1st. All right. I would love to hear from you. As I said before, so make sure you drop me a line. But until next week, remember that consistent action is the blueprint that turns your goals into reality. Take care.
- [12:23]
A
Real quick before you head out have you checked out the Guild yet? If you've been listening to this podcast or hanging out in the Maximum Lawyer Facebook group, you've probably heard us mention it. But if you haven't taken the next step, let me tell you, you're missing the best part of this community. The Guild is where law firm owners like you go to level up. It's not just more content, it's a powerful mix of weekly live trainings, group coaching, accountability and a tight knit community of people who actually get what you're building. You'll be able to tap into real conversations with people who are in the trenches with you, scaling their firms, testing ideas, solving problems and growing fast. If you're serious about building a firm that runs like a business and not just a job, this is where you want to be. Go to maxlawguild.com and take that next step. We'll see you inside.