Adam Williams (3:00)

I think there are a lot of entrepreneurial law firm owners that, that think they should have a personal brand. I think that seed gets planted with many of us. But like anything in life, right, like, you, you think about it, you know, you got to do it. It's like that pair of pants in your closet that you go to button it one day and it's just a little too tight and it's like, all right, now I'm gonna do something about this. And for us, frankly, part of it was the maximum lawyer conference because there was a lot of talk about YouTube and personal brands. And Christy, who's a friend of mine, texted me and had some questions. It was like a Friday evening, and I'm like, you know what? Let's, let's do it. Let's go head to head 12 weeks through the end of the year and, and see who can grow the most followers. And you saw me post more frequently. I hope that the posting that I was putting out was higher quality and even bigger than that. Like, Christie had been planning a podcast for five years, and this was finally the thing that got her to go and do it. So I think for both of us, it was just this moment of like, you know, a little friendly competition could. Could do us some good. So it's probably why we did that.

Tyson Mutrix (4:03)

What were the rules of the contest? I'm very curious about this too.

Adam Williams (4:06)

You know, that's funny because of course, that's immediately what the lawyers jumped into. So we were doing five platforms, five social media platforms, and just an increase in follower account. And we agreed that we wouldn't spend any money boosting or promoting posts. That was one of our early agreements. This year we actually changed that rule because we realized we were kind of hamstringing ourselves a little bit, but that was it. Every other rule was self imposed. I. I told myself I was not going to go do dances on TikTok just to grow the follower.

Tyson Mutrix (4:37)

Count.

Adam Williams (4:37)

Not sure if that would have helped me or not, but decided I wasn't.

Tyson Mutrix (4:39)

Going to do that.

Adam Williams (4:40)

So, yeah, it was, it was the, the rules of engagement were somewhat limited. The real issue was the reward that we agreed on. That's where we spent the most time negotiating what. What was going to happen here.

Tyson Mutrix (4:52)

All right, well, don't tell me what it is yet. I want to. Let's tease that part. Tease with that because I, I don't know what it is, but I. Hopefully I'm not overhyping it, but don't tell me what it is. Let's. Let's tease it a little bit. Now. Was it. You had to use the five same five platforms or could you choose your own five?

Adam Williams (5:07)

So we were, we were going for follower account, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook or Instagram LinkedIn. And TikTok was the fifth one. Yeah, we just decided those are, you know, probably the, the most popular ones. We didn't get into Twitter or Reddit or threads or any of the other stuff. So, yeah, we just agreed that those were the five platforms and it was percentage increase in follower count.

Tyson Mutrix (5:27)

Where did you see the most improvement? Which platform?

Adam Williams (5:30)

As a percentage, it was YouTube. I did double my subscriber count. Overall numbers. I think I had the biggest increase on Facebook, which was interesting because that was already where I had the biggest following. I think that ended up maybe only being a 10% increase, but it was hundreds of people that we added.

Tyson Mutrix (5:45)

There's something about Facebook's algorithm within the last six months, I've noticed where like I'm get. I was getting messages like, it looks like your. Your posts, they lead to a lot of engagement. We're increasing your engagement or something. Like I was getting like. So I'm assuming you're probably getting those things too. So I don't. They must have been going through some algorithm changes because we've sort of seen something similar when it comes to posting on Facebook. Have you seen an ability to tie the investment into a platform into some sort of roi?

Adam Williams (6:11)

Yes, ironically. I mean, we're. We're talking small numbers here, right. I have a few thousand Facebook followers. We're talking. Not talking about millions of followers, but. But because I was somewhat intentional about the stuff I was posting about. Yeah, I mean, it led to more leads and more clients because I'm top of mind with people. So, yeah, we can tie back to that ROI. And the reason that we engage for another 12 months is we're realizing, man, we're just scratching the surface. 12 weeks is nothing to grow a follower count. So if we commit to this for 12 months, we should see some even greater results.

Tyson Mutrix (6:45)

All right, so what's that game? I'm not going to say it. Fmk, where you marry one, you kill one and then do the other one. If you. By the way, this is not one of my planned questions, but if you were to fmk and if you don't know what that means, Google it.

Adam Williams (6:57)

Yep.

Tyson Mutrix (6:58)

Which would you f. Would you. Would you marry? Which one would you kill?

Adam Williams (7:01)

I'm currently effing YouTube with the, with the fourth quarter competition. I was posting pretty consistently on all the platforms and I decided for this year to go all in on YouTube. So that's, that's primarily where I'm focused. I hired a really big time vendor to help me grow the following there. So I'm all over YouTube. I think that that is the best platform for the type of content that I want to put out and the type of people that we want to attract. And this is free. Good advice to anybody thinking about doing this. You can post on Facebook and have a post go viral and it's dead in a week. Whereas with YouTube, a video that you put up five years ago could still be getting views. So it's got a longer tail. The way the algorithm works, where it's more search engine based versus the algorithm that just puts angry political posts in front of you, I think it's a lot more effective. So yeah, I'm dating very seriously YouTube right now. I guess I'm getting ready to get married to YouTube. As far as as which one, I would kill the contest. This year we actually added Reddit to the mix.

Tyson Mutrix (7:59)

Oh, wow.

Adam Williams (7:59)

I am still very much of the opinion that the people on Reddit are living in their mom's basements for the most part. I'm sure I'm going to get some angry messages about that. I just don't think that that's our target. Yeah, we have some other family law attorneys that are, that are in the contest now and they think that Reddit could be great. Them, I'm not convinced of that. I think for the type of stuff that we do, it's a lot of do it yourselfers. It's a lot of people that are, that are gonna try and do this, you know, get some information and get their question answered for free and try and DIY it. And I just, I just don't think that's for us.

Tyson Mutrix (8:29)

Okay, so you get rid of Reddit now. Reddit wasn't one of the Core 5 though, right?

Adam Williams (8:33)

It wasn't the first time around. No, we added Reddit.

Tyson Mutrix (8:35)

All right, so I'm gonna make you get rid of one of the core five. Which one are you gonna get rid of? I'm very curious about the answer on this one, by the way. This is, that's why this is the one I care about the most. Really.

Adam Williams (8:44)

This is interesting because I'm gonna say Instagram because I think, I think Facebook does everything that Instagram does better. And I, I've put a lot of time into Instagram and we're not seeing as many results there. So we had, I had a couple of videos that, that went really big, couple hundred thousand views in the fourth quarter and didn't turn into much for us. Didn't, didn't really increase the follower count. So it's like you can have something that, that hits, but it doesn't, it doesn't turn into anything. So I, I'd probably take Instagram out of the mix.

Tyson Mutrix (9:11)

All right, so YouTube more long term, get rid of Instagram. And then so the one that's more of a. I'd say the F is more of like a short term, it's like maybe hot now and maybe not a long term thing. So is. Or maybe we can even say it's sexy now, but maybe not in the future. So is there, is there one that I want. I'm hoping you're like TikTok, but I don't know if you will. So I'm curious which one it would.

Adam Williams (9:33)

Be if I had to pick one. That's the one where I think there's the most uncertainty. That, that's, you know, as soon as the politicians get involved, that, that is what I would call a stroke of the pen issue that politicians can get involved in. With the stroke of a pen, that thing is gone. Right? Because they don't like it. They don't like the Chinese ownership or whatever. I know they've tried to do some things to fix that, but that's the one that I feel like it's the least stable or at least the least amount of certainty with what's going to happen in the future with that.

Tyson Mutrix (9:58)

And I wonder, maybe this question might apply based on each platform, but is there any, are there any like, do's and don'ts that you can think of? Or like, okay, I made these mistakes, don't do this again. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Adam Williams (10:10)

So I think one of the things that I did that was successful is I went into ChatGPT early on and said, Help me decide what my. My five pillars. Right, or what. What are the things that I'm going to talk about consistently? Because, you know, I'm not going to post pictures of my food. I'm not going to do silly TikTok dances. I'm not going to rage bait people. But. But what are the things that I should be talking about? And my, My chat GPT knows me pretty well and it helped me formulate some of that. And now after building those pillars, it will also help me create some of the posts that I put out as well. And that's been really helpful. So I. I think being very confident in who you are and what the message is that you want to preach, I think is really important. The moment you become disingenuous, I think people pick up on that. And I don't know if you've noticed this, but people on the Internet are really mean.

Tyson Mutrix (10:56)

Really? No way.

Adam Williams (10:58)

Yeah. Yeah. Shocking. I know. So, yeah, I think, I think that was a. I don't know if that's a do or a don't do. Stay true to yourself and understand what you're about and what you want to talk about. Don't fake it. Don't do things that you don't genuinely believe in just to increase the follower count. Because really, at the end of the day, yes, we're measuring follower count. That's what the competition is based on. But I'm more interested in quality followers that are going to engage in the content and want to hear more of the stuff that I'm trying to say rather than just people that are going to follow me because I did something funny one time.

Tyson Mutrix (11:28)

What are some of my favorite Facebook posts are from Mark Lopez. And Mark Lopez, he will post comments that are like, mean comments. I think it's freaking hilarious because I like how he embraces it. You're like, you know, screw up. I. It's funny. I wonder if you get any consistent comments. I get. This is AI. I'm thinking, like, what am I saying that makes it seem like it's AI. I wonder if you get anything like that.

Adam Williams (11:50)

It's less about that. I mean, I, I tell AI to make it sound less like AI and then I always put my. My touch on it. I put a post up yesterday on Facebook. It has 755 comments on it right now.

Tyson Mutrix (12:00)

What?

Adam Williams (12:01)

Many of them are not kind of. And it's kind of funny because I. I've seen other influencers who will take the comments and it'll be like the face behind the comment. Right? So it's like, oh, you're fat and lazy and broke. And then you look at their profile picture and it's like, yeah, bro, appreciate your feedback, but I'm, I'm not gonna. Not gonna take that. Not gonna take that from you. Cause I've. I've seen what you're working with over there.

Tyson Mutrix (12:22)

So I'm pulling this up. Is it a video or is it a. What's the basis of this?

Adam Williams (12:26)

So I have an electric vehicle, and the state of Pennsylvania started this new thing where they're gonna charge you a $250 road use tax if you have an electric vehicle. Vehicle. So I posted the video and I said, this is. This is kind of BS because we're.

Tyson Mutrix (12:37)

We're.

Adam Williams (12:38)

We're tax planners. That's our business, right? And here I am. I pay tax on my income. I pay tax on my house. I pay tax on the electricity. But because they're not getting the fuel tax because of the car that I drive to fix our roads, which are in horrible shape, they whacked us with another $250 this year just for the heck of it. It was 200 bucks last year. There's some strong language in some of those comments, and it's really funny because now people are arguing in the comments with each other. Because I realized, hey, this is. There's a bunch of people I don't know commenting on this thing, and I don't. I don't need to fight with these people. So now they can. They can call each other mean names and debate tax policy, which is really fun.

Tyson Mutrix (13:12)

I think it's really interesting. So. And I'm going to ask you about these hashtags in a second because you say, just got my Invoice for a $250 road user charge because my EV doesn't pay fuel tax. So let's ignore the income tax on the money used to buy it, the property tax where it's stored, and the tax on the electricity to charge it. And now I'm charged for using the roads, too. Pennsylvania EV owners, how are you feeling about this? And then you put hashtag, Tesla, EV id, Buzz, bb, like all these things. It's interesting. I read that and I'm thinking like, hell, yeah, Adam. Like, that's bull crap. And so I'm, I'm very curious. I. I don't know if I want to open the comments, to be honest with you. The people that are like, anti. Because that's wild to me. I, as someone that drives an EV myself, I'm an owner of three EVs. And I, I'm a little. I'm. I'm on your side with this. But when it comes to the hashtags, what's up with the hashtags? Is that a. Is that a technique that works?

Adam Williams (14:06)

You know, I've never found the magic with, with hashtags. I just threw them on there because I. This was originally posted on Instagram and cross posted to Facebook and I knew Tesla had a lot of people that follow that hashtag, so I figured I'd throw it out there. I drive the Volkswagen ID Buzz. It's the. Looks like the, the old bus.

Tyson Mutrix (14:22)

Okay.

Adam Williams (14:23)

So I know that there are other people that have, that have seen my post because I use that hashtag. But yeah, I didn't. The final hashtag on there is one of my favorite sayings, which is every government program should be a GoFundMe that makes it voluntary and you can decide what you actually want to contribute to. Not a lot of people follow that hashtag, but I just threw them on there. I have not had any success figuring out the magic with hashtags, but I do think it can help influence the algorithm a little bit just to point it in the direction of EV owners. Ironically, there's a lot of dudes in jean shorts and white New Balance sneakers that clearly drive Corvettes that have also seen this post.

Tyson Mutrix (14:59)

So I, I love how comments, when they start like this, first off, I can't get over how a lot of people just line up to pay more taxes. You know what? That's kind of how I feel, to be honest with you. All right, so let me ask you, do you read the comments? Do. Do you normally go through and read all the comments?

Adam Williams (15:13)

So usually I do because I don't get that many with this post. I don't know what it was. I have not seen them all. You know, I have the alerts shut off on my phone and stuff, so I don't, I don't see the notifications. But yeah, when I went in this morning and checked and I'm like, I definitely did not read all of those comments. And I'm kind of glad I don't. One of the other videos that I posted in the fourth quarter had an author on our podcast and kind of a niche thing. He wrote a book about the Edmund Fitzgerald, which is something I just geeked out about because it was the 50th anniversary. So this guy came on our, on our show and he published this book and it is his fourth or fifth New York Times bestselling book.

Tyson Mutrix (15:46)

Oh my gosh.

Adam Williams (15:47)

So I asked him like, how do you deal with the one star reviews on Amazon? Right? You pour your heart and soul into these books and they're all, they're all nonfiction. And he's got great leadership books and books about sports and coaches and things like that. This one was a little bit different for him and I was like, how do you deal with that? And he's like, you just accept the fact that they're inevitable and yes, someone is going to read this book and give it a one star review and it's just what happens. And that was good. I mean, I don't take a lot of things personally, but it was a good reminder on that of like, yeah, you know what, this stuff is going to happen. There are angry people out there, particularly when they're sitting on the other side of a keyboard and not standing in front of my face. So yeah, I don't, I don't have time for all that stuff.

Tyson Mutrix (16:28)

Amazing how removing that screen and keyboard changes people's, the way they, they operate themselves. So that's really interesting. Something I noticed about your post is that at least more recently, and maybe it's just my algorithm, they're mostly text based, but I feel like early on you had more videos that you were playing around with some AI. And maybe I'm wrong about that, but at least that's what I remember. So what is the mix between putting up an image, putting up text, putting up video? Have you even thought about that?

Adam Williams (16:56)

From what I've seen, videos get a lot more interaction on every platform. I think that straight text posts don't, I think platforms don't incentivize that as much. They don't put as much of that content out there. They want you to watch the videos because I think they, they want that engagement and they can throw some ads in there and monetize it a little bit. So I've had a lot more success with videos for sure than, than still images or with text. But I don't know, I test it out. I'll post something without an image or with a video or whatever and see what happens. But from what I've seen, the videos are a lot more effective.

Tyson Mutrix (17:28)

So this question is a little bit of a selfish question, but it will help other people because we are putting on a video workshop in Chicago. Jeff Hampton's gonna come out, speak, and we're gonna invite some other people out to put on the workshop and everything. And I wonder if there's anything you think we should focus on. Like what are the things that people need to learn in order to put on really good videos?

Adam Williams (17:49)

Oh man, we're gonna get into some woo woo mindset stuff.

Tyson Mutrix (17:52)

Okay, great, Love it.

Adam Williams (17:53)

But some, some people don't like to record videos because they don't have the world's most perfect camera and the studio and it isn't perfectly scripted and we're, we're lawyers so we want everything to be perfect and error free, but that's not what people actually want. I, I'm sitting in this studio that I literally built two weeks ago after just saying all of that. What we're going on all in on YouTube. My most successful videos are not in our recording studio for our podcast where it looks very professional. Professional. They're not on other people's podcasts. It's when I pull out my phone and I'm walking down the street and I record in selfie mode and I stumble over my words and it's imperfect. Those are the ones that we get the most engagement on. People use it as a stopping strategy. They say, well, I can't do video because I've just got my iPhone, or the audio isn't going to be perfect or that that horn honked in the background and nobody's going to want to hear that. I actually think that stuff is even more important now because it's obviously not AI generated. Like you're a human being. We want that human connection. So any excuse that you have for you're not ready or you don't have the equipment or you don't have the tech, like it's not rocket science to get started. Open up Instagram, start a story, put the camera in selfie mode and just talk to it. And people love that stuff.

Tyson Mutrix (19:01)

Okay, this maybe seem like a silly question, but do you need to be in the video or can you be recording outwards and talking at the same time?

Adam Williams (19:08)

I guess it depends on what you're filming. I'm pretty sure if, if you had the choice, if you're hearing me talk and you had the choice between looking at me or looking at, say, my wife, you'd much rather look at my wife, right? Or my dogs. So, yeah, I, I guess it depends on, on, on how, how photogenic you are. So yeah, I, we've, we've had good success with, with some videos where we're just walking around the office or we, we put somebody else on camera and you sort of have the interviewer in the background. But I, I, I don't know that I'm using this phrase. Correctly. But there's, there's this concept of UGC user generated content and that's pulling out the phone in selfie mode. And, and that's the stuff. And not just on my accounts, but across the board. That's the stuff that gets the most engagement right now.

Tyson Mutrix (19:49)

Okay, so something. And I've never actually, it's weird that I've personally never seen someone doing this in like a grocery store or something. But I do find it very awkward where I've at least considered doing it. And sometimes I'll be like on like facetime with my kids or my wife and I'm wondering if people are thinking I'm recording or something. But I do find it kind of odd. Like I'll watch these videos where someone's in a grocery store and they've had to have like prop the camera up on a shelf or something. And so like, do you go that far? Or like. And I do have a problem getting mentally over that part of it. If you're going that far. So help me, help me out.

Adam Williams (20:24)

Well, first of all, stop going to the grocery store and just instacart everything.

Tyson Mutrix (20:27)

Fair. Fair.

Adam Williams (20:28)

But outside of that, like I said, I'm a big proponent of 75 hard, which means I have to do a 45 minute workout every day. So I record a lot of videos then. And I live in the middle of nowhere, so none of the neighbors are seeing me walk down the street holding my camera in front of me. If you've got something, this goes back to like really believing in your truth and what you want to talk about. If you've got something you want to share with the world, then pull out your camera and record it. Who cares who's standing around watching you? Because we all do it. We all want to put that stuff out there.

Tyson Mutrix (20:54)

Okay, so let me ask you about 75 hard. This is interesting, by the way. Well played with the wife comment. That's. That's smart. Well, we will got to clip that and send it to her. But so Jimmy. I'll say congrats to Jimmy. He just finished 75 hard yesterday. Yesterday was his last day, so congrats. I'm assuming, Jim, you got it. You. You finished the day out. You texted me earlier in the day, but are you in the middle 75 hard?

Adam Williams (21:15)

I'm on like day three or four right now. I made it to 22 and failed, so I started over.

Tyson Mutrix (21:20)

Wow. So what's really cool. So I'm sure people are sick of me talking about 75 hard at this point, but I still, I. I'm a firm believer into it. In it as well. Amy and I, we did 75 hard. We did. It's so funny. I did. I mentioned 75 hard earlier today on another episode. So people are like, gosh, shut up. But we did 75 hard. We did phases one, two and three, and it is so cool. Wait till you get to the phase where you have to talk to a random person. It is the funnest thing.

Adam Williams (21:47)

Dude, I, I did that in 2024. That, that phase three for the whole live hard program, it becomes a full time job.

Tyson Mutrix (21:54)

Yes.

Adam Williams (21:54)

Like, I got to talk to a stranger. I got to do a random act of kindness. I'm like, holy crap. Like, this is. This has taken all of my focus. So, yeah, I, I don't know that I'm ever going to do the full program again, but it's a great exercise. I mean, that's. And I'm generally introverted, so that part was really tough for me.

Tyson Mutrix (22:09)

All right, so you, you've already gone through the full thing, right? How hard is it? Because I have considered doing it again, but I'm like, do I want to go through this whole thing again? So how hard is it to start up again?

Adam Williams (22:20)

It depends on what's going on in your life. So, like, when I failed, I knew I had to get it done. And for me, like, yes, I get in better physical shape. But anytime my wife and I are struggling in the business, some stuff's going on that we're just, you know, you know the moments where you just feel like you're kicked in the face every single day. That's usually when we do phase one, which is the one that requires cold showers. And it's like, well, that's it. You. You got five minutes of a cold shower. That's. We're going to allow you to complain during that five minutes and then you got to get back to it. So as far as mental toughness goes, I mean that it's very easy to start. My challenge is I've done it so many. I've been doing 75 hard for five years. I know I can do it. So, like, it isn't really challenging. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. So it does get easier to sort of quit, you know, if you, if you get busy or have things going on. I made it to day 68 once and we were in Napa and we went to a winery with some friends and I'm like, it's over. Like, I can't. I can't do this anymore. I got a week left. I know I can do it. I got. I got some wine to drink, so.

Tyson Mutrix (23:18)

Wow, that's a big decision. I don't think I could. I think only I could have done that. That is, that's kudos to you for actually having the strength to say, I'll just start over again. That's actually. I think that's harder than. Than just continuing with the program, so kudos. All right, so let's get back to the video stuff. Like, what about, like, scripts and ideas? Walk me through that. How do you, how do you generate ideas? How do you. Do you use scripts? What about that?

Adam Williams (23:45)

So I've been looking at what I. What a lot of other people are doing, especially in the tax strategy space. There are influencers out there that do a lot of this stuff. I've got a slightly different spin on every single thing that they talk about. So I look at their videos, frankly, I look at the ones that are doing well because I know it's topics that are interesting to people. So I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. The other thing that we do is we've got transcripts from all of our sales calls and all of our client calls so we can pull. Use AI to pull themes out of that and topics that people are really interested in. I'm not good at following a script. I did a video yesterday for YouTube that was about 12 minutes long where I did use the teleprompter, but the shorts, the one to two minute things, I give myself some bullet points and I just riff on it and that's a lot, a lot easier for me. The other thing is I've now hired experts to help me with this. Right. I'm working with a company that they are really good at growing YouTube channels. So they're giving me a lot of guidance on what the hook needs to be and they create the thumbnail images and the descriptions and all of this stuff. So that's making my life a little bit easier. But I guess that's always the story of hiring experts.

Tyson Mutrix (24:48)

Now, what sorts of tools are you using that at least prior to hiring the experts, what sort of tools were using to help you produce the content, edit videos, things like that?

Adam Williams (24:59)

Yeah, so. So for videos, we used Opus. We've used Descript a little bit too. But Opus is so easy. You dump a video in there, it. It edits it, it captions it. It does a pretty good job. That just makes things faster. So we use that quite a bit. I spend a Lot of time in chat gbt. So, like, I have some custom GPTs that I built. It knows my voice, and I say, here's the topic, you know, help me come up with an angle on this thing to, to be a little more efficient with it. So use a lot of chat GPT. And then I'm working on. I'm doing a lot of AI stuff right now. I'm working on an app, not, not like the cell phone app, but sort of an automation where I'll be able to drop a video that I record in selfie mode into a Google Drive and it'll transcribe it, It'll write a LinkedIn post, it'll write a Facebook caption, it'll write an Instagram caption, and then I can just copy and paste and post them on the, on all the different platforms. So taking one piece of content and automating it so it turns into five or six or seven more has been really helpful.

Tyson Mutrix (25:52)

That's what's so cool about, I think, vibe coding and everything these days. You can, you can build out your own apps to do things like that, which is such a cool thing. It is so awesome. And you have all the tools you need. You can use chat GPT, you can use Claude, whatever, to, to add any additional coding that you might need. I think that that's, it's just really, it's really amazing the things you can do. Now, a big part of this was the personal branding. And I, I don't know how you're going to answer this question, but what do you think that people associate with your name right now, now that you've gone through all this, you know, this whole challenge.

Adam Williams (26:24)

That's a good question. What would I like them to associate with my name? So I think for me, I talk a lot about entrepreneurship and the, and the struggles and the difficulties, and it's never easy, but it's worth it if you do it right. So there's a lot of content around that. There's a lot of mindset content. That's the podcast that I do once a week. We talk a lot about that stuff. So it's kind of some motivational things. And I mentioned that first because I think that is the most number of messages that I get. I got a really nice written thank you card from a guy that listens to our podcast the other day. That was, like, really flattering. So I think that's a big one. I'm talking a lot about tax stuff, obviously, because that's our business and we're Going to be doing more of that content. So I think I get associated with that a lot of. And then, you know, airplanes and race cars, because those are my other interests. So actually I talk about my family and my kids a lot too, which I think is really important to me. And I, I kind of dismiss that one. But I forget, you know, my, my wife and I have been married for going on 19 years and we have two kids and it's really important for us to like, make sure the business integrates with our family lives and we do cool stuff with our kids. You know, I post a lot about that and not in a, not in a bragging way, but just in a way to show like, hey, it's possible, possible that you can do this. A lot of the influencers that I follow, whether in the tax space or coaching space or entrepreneurial space, I really struggle with the people that give you this advice to hustle and grind and work harder if they don't have kids. Because it's like. Or an intact marriage, for that matter. Because it's like, hey, like, there's. I got other pressures in my life that I don't want to be at the office 24 7, you know, outworking everybody because I want my kids to think I'm cool and I want them to grow up to be smart, productive, independent adults. So I'm going to focus on that too.

Tyson Mutrix (28:04)

Yeah, that's something I've kind of learned over the years where, like, I'm not going to take diet advice from someone that's. Look, that looks unhealthy. I'm just, just not. I'm sorry. And so I've, I've sort of come to that same conclusion where I'm not going to take business advice from you if you've, if you've run a bunch of businesses into the ground. Especially I've, I've been like, front seat to the evolution of coaches in this industry and how everyone was an expert. And I, I think over the last few years, I think people have finally caught on to the, to the charlatans that are out there that. And you see them come and go. I mean, do you. I can't tell you how many I've seen come and go when it comes to, you know, quote unquote experts that come in and they, you know, they, they pitch the world to, to law firm owners and then they do a terrible job. And next, you know, they're gone, their reputation's gone and they've done. I mean, who knows? There's a couple People that come to my mind right now that I'm like, I'm kind of wondering where they are because I've not seen them in a while. But do you, I guess, do you position yourself more as like a tax expert in your posts? And if so, how do you. Because I what I like about your posts and they do lead to a lot of engagement. It seems they're all, almost all of them are relatable in some way, which I think is very cool. So how do you try to position yourself as an expert and if so, how do you do it? And then how do you. Also, I'm very curious as to how you are able to make all of these posts so relatable because it. And maybe I'm just part of your target market, I don't know, but that's it.

Adam Williams (29:36)

You and I have a lot in common. Right? I'm not intentionally targeting you, but I talk about stuff that I think is cool that you think and you just happen to think it's cool. But the question about the position yourself is a great question. So I studied what particularly tax influencers have done and on one end of the spectrum there are these like just condescending jerks who they take other influencers posts and say, here's a million reasons why this person's wrong and why they're an idiot and here's the rules that you need to follow. And then on the other end of the spectrum, there's people that give you just enough information to make it really sexy and exciting without telling you how difficult it is. Right. So hey, I'm going to show you that you can write off your Rolex in your business. Great. It's going to be really hard to do that though. So I position myself a little bit in the middle. I'm very direct. I'm not condescending. But I'm also not selling you a dream. And I didn't come up with this. The vendor that I'm working with came up with this, but I thought they nailed it. It's the smartest guy in the room that doesn't have to tell everybody he's the smartest guy in the room. And it's like, I really like that. Like, yeah, I'm just going to show you, I'm going to demonstrate to you that here's what I know and here's how it can help you and hope it resonates with you. And is it going to generate as many leads as the guy who's promising the world and saying, basically, let's Go commit tax fraud and hope you get away with it. I'm never going to have that guy's following. But on the other hand, the very compliance driven here, the rules. I am definitely the smartest person because everybody else is wrong. I'm sure that's great for their business as well, but we're. Neither of those were approaches that I wanted to take.

Tyson Mutrix (31:09)

Yeah, those aren't the clients you want, so that's, that's probably a smart move. Is there anything that's off limits that you don't, that you won't talk about on social media?

Adam Williams (31:18)

Oh man, I got a whole list.

Tyson Mutrix (31:20)

Or actually let me rephrase it because I'm sure you probably do. Is there anything that you think other people should probably avoid too?

Adam Williams (31:26)

So I have, I have a friend who's got a pretty successful business, marketing adjacent business. And he's very intentional that like he won't talk about politics. Right. It's just not what he wants. He knows he could fire people up. He knows it would get people engaged, but he just won't do it. I'm okay talking about politics without getting political. Right. I think I can prove to you that both sides are completely. Well, I hate, I even hate the phrase both sides, but the two opposite ends of the spectrum are, are completely wrong. And I think I could, I could demonstrate that to you. So I think I'm just really careful about how I approach that. I don't know that anything is off limits. You know what my problem is is sometimes I think I overthink things and I'm not capable of filtering all that well. I just kind of spit it out there. So yeah, I don't, I don't really have a lot of, a lot of fear or apprehension on that stuff.

Tyson Mutrix (32:13)

You know, it's interesting. I have the same feelings about the political post and I'm like this just so nauseating. It's so funny. The last time I tried to touch on a political topic, I actually thought I took a very reasoned approach. And I know I, and I've since been proven right. I'm still waiting on apologies from people, but it's never going to happen. It had to do with that judge that helped the attorney and her client out the back door. So if anyone. And I was like, I took, I don't know, I feel like I took a very reasonable approach to it. And, and I couldn't believe how many people attacked before I'm laying like, this is kind of the point of like why I don't think people should really Be posting about politics, unless that's your thing, is because I feel like I took a very, very reasonable approach. And in any other world, if we were all, we're operating in a world of, like, truth and honesty, everyone would agree with me. But it was, like, wild. People were vicious.

Adam Williams (33:06)

That's a great point, because one of our company's core values is find the truth. So we're very intentional with that. But, yeah, I mean, I could. I ordered a burrito on doordash yesterday from Chipotle, and it was $33, right.

Tyson Mutrix (33:18)

Oh, my gosh.

Adam Williams (33:19)

Added some extra chicken. I'm a good tipper. And then I hit order, and I'm thinking, man, 33 bucks for a burrito. I could go on Facebook and complain about this, but I know one of the first five comments is going to be, well, keep voting for Democrats. And that's what happens, you know, or Republicans or whatever. And it's like, no, it's just a burrito, right? So I didn't. I didn't bother with that one, because people can find a way to make things political. So.

Tyson Mutrix (33:40)

Oh, that is the funny thing. You'll see a comment like, how did this get political? I'm talking about brownies. You know what I mean? It's just completely, completely crazy. Okay? So, I mean, politics is one of them. How personal do you get with your posts? I know that you said you post about the kids and things like that, but do you do you ever, like, kind of, like, get into the. The mind of Adam and kind of like your thoughts on certain things? How personal do you get when it comes to things like that?

Adam Williams (34:05)

You know, I. I try intentionally to avoid politics, but I also try to not seem like an egomaniac, which is hard when you're talking about yourself, I think. And people who don't know me that well think I have a little bit of an ego. People who really know me know I'm actually. I'm, like, the most modest person. Right. That's a joke. So I think. I think I, you know, I don't want to come across as a. As a know it all again. So I think showing a little bit of, like, vulnerability, and I think showing a little bit of here's what I know and here's what I wish I could figure out, I think is really helpful. So, yeah, I think that's another fair approach that I take. Like, again, I'm. I'm nothing if not transparent, or at least I try to be, but I'm really intentional of not trying to be that that know it all. Right. I think that's just the wrong. I don't want people to be attracted to me because I'm a. Know it all. I want people to be attracted to me because I have wisdom and. And I have experience, but not because I have an answer to every single question. Right. I. And there's. I think there's people that position themselves that way.

Tyson Mutrix (35:04)

Yeah. Before there's anyone that comments. Adam was joking about being modest. It's. That was part of the joke. Okay. So we're just. So we're very clear. So don't. I don't see any comments about it unless you are joking that I'm okay with it. So I have heard from many people like, that they're like, their public Persona is different than their private Persona. And I wonder if yours is different or the same. I wonder, because the Adam I've always met, you're the same guy, but I wonder if there is. If there's another Adam that I don't know about.

Adam Williams (35:38)

Actually, here's a good one. I am, like, intensely, intensely emotional. And, like, yes, I get fired up about things, and I, you know, get excited or get. Get sad, but, like. And I have friends that know this because they've seen me in rooms. Like, I'm a crier. And I don't. I don't share that. Not because it's, like, intentional, but it's like, I'm not thinking in that moment. Wow, I should really capture this moment because it'll resonate with people. So that's probably one that people don't realize is, like, I'm a really emotional guy. Like, I do it all. I watched Rudy on an airplane the other day, and, like, I can't stand Notre Dame football, but I was still, like, you know, wiping the tears away from my eyes in that and that closing scene. So I think. I think that's one area where maybe it's not that clear, but anybody who's ever seen me at an event get up to a microphone, they. They're well aware that I'm an emotional guy.

Tyson Mutrix (36:28)

I tell my dad, my dad's very emotional. And I was. I was talk. I was one of those things. I was talking to my mom yesterday, and I was like, when did dad become emotional? He wasn't emotional as a kid. You know what I mean? Like, he was. He definitely wasn't emotional. So I wonder, is that something that has changed as you had kids, or were you always that way? Hmm.

Adam Williams (36:46)

I think I've probably always been that way. I, you know, What I bet, though, I bet there was a path of maturing there where I became more okay with it. Like, you know, growing up a young man, I went to an all boys Catholic high school, right. Where maybe sharing that stuff wouldn't have been, you know, you gotta be tough, you gotta be strong, you gotta be masculine. And yes, I think I'm all those things, but I also think it's like, well, it's okay to be emotional, so that's acceptable too. So, yeah, I think, I think maybe I've just allowed myself to be more of that as opposed to like, I don't know that I've changed. I think just my response to it has changed, if that makes sense.

Tyson Mutrix (37:20)

Yeah.

Adam Williams (37:21)

This is a really good therapy session, Tyson. Thank you for this.

Tyson Mutrix (37:23)

I, I try, I do what I can. It's funny, I, in my notes, I, I wrote this quote down and I, it's really kind of interesting that it's about the politics and everything, but the quote is from, is the George Orwell, in a time of deceit, telling the truth is, is a revolutionary act. And it's funny, I didn't, I didn't reference it before, but I actually wrote it down in for this next question because I wonder why you think attorneys do this. I think they lie to themselves because they say they've got to build a personal brand and they just never do it. And so either you're lying that you think you need the personal brand, or you're lying about the reasons that you shouldn't be doing what you should be doing. So I just wonder what your thoughts are on that.

Adam Williams (38:05)

This is a good one. Lawyers think that people expect them to have all the answers. They, they come to us. We think as lawyers that people come to us because we've got the solutions to all of their problems. So the moment you share something where you're not fully knowledgeable, fully experienced, don't know everything, I think that's really hard for people to admit. So I think that's part of the reason is it's like, well, if I go do something on social media, if I post a video and my laundry isn't folded in the background or I misuse a phrase, oh, I'm going to be judged because I'm a lawyer and I'm not supposed to be like that. And I don't know that that's exclusive to lawyers, but it's probably worse with lawyers. So I think we've got expectations of ourself. The reality is people don't actually think that about us. We think they think that about us. So I think that's probably part of the challenge is like, yeah, I'm supposed to be this. This. You know, I know everything. I. I had somebody call me today because she wanted to sue her neighbor because the dogs are barking, and it's like, I don't know anything about that. Right. I can't. I can't help you with that. So I don't know. I don't. I'm fully. I'm perfectly fine saying I have. I don't even know where to point you to get help with something like that. And then I hung up the phone and thought, this is not why I went to law school.

Tyson Mutrix (39:21)

Okay, so this is a good topic because I think early on, and especially the. The younger lawyers that are just starting out, they. They're more anxious to kind of take in whatever comes with them through the door because they want to make some money. So how do you prevent yourself from. From going down those rabbit holes and putting out content about all of those other things that are out there that. Other than what you do?

Adam Williams (39:42)

Yeah, I started this. I was a door lawyer. We had a law firm for 15 years, and then. And then transitioned over to the tax strategy business, and I did it all, which I learned my lesson. So now in our new business, we started with one menu of service offering. We now have two. There are only two ways that you can hire a firm, only two things that you can hire a firm for. And, yes, that will expand over time. But it's very intentional and very deliberate now, so that I just had to learn the hard way of, you know, getting my teeth kicked in time after time after time before I realized, let's. Let's focus on what I am and be very aware of what I'm not and stay in that lane.

Tyson Mutrix (40:19)

All right? And this. This question is not regards to political posts. This is more just generally, how do you think about being polarizing versus being, like, kind of down the middle on things?

Adam Williams (40:31)

I think it's okay to be polarizing if you're doing it for the right reasons. I have no problem getting on a stage and splitting the room in half and knowing who's with me and who's not with me. I like the approach of being a magnet. Yes, magnets attract things, but the other side of that magnet also pushes things away. And I'm. I'm comfortable enough in. In my skin and with who I am that I'm. I'm. I'm okay with that. I'm not going to do it again. Just to, just to rage bait. I'm not going to do it just, just as a gimmick, but I'm genuinely going to say, hey, there are a whole bunch of you in this room right now that are lighting hundred dollar bills on fire every year to fund the government that wastes a whole bunch of your money. And there are people in there. You're going to say, no, I'm. I'm okay with paying taxes. And I think the government does a great job. And look at all the. Look at all the benefits that it provides. They're not my people. And that's. That's fine. Maybe I don't know if this is maturing or not, but it's. It's the reality, as I've gotten older, of, like, I know what I want the people around me to be like and what I want them to. To think or be open to, and hopefully what they believe. Not that I want to influence that necessarily. And it's not that I'm opposed to contrarian views, but, yeah, I think. I think drawing a line and saying, if you're on the line, fine, but if you're way over there, stay over there, and I'm going to stay over here and we'll both be okay with that, or at least limiting my interaction with people like that.

Tyson Mutrix (41:52)

All right, I only have a couple questions left, but before we get to those, what is. What was the prize? Tell us what the prize was for the competition, man.

Adam Williams (41:59)

All right, so the reality is I lost. I have a million excuses, which I'll save for another episode. I have to buy Christie a trophy. I have to donate. I think it was 500 bucks to the charity of her choice, which I'm very nervous about, because she and I do have different beliefs on a lot of things. And there's an event that we're both going to where I'm pretty sure I have to get up on stage and see what a great. See what a great job that she did. So a lot of shame involved in this. You know, could it have been a $50,000 prize? Yes, but this is a million times worse than that. So.

Tyson Mutrix (42:30)

But in that, do you still think that you won? Not the actual competition, but with your. With the business and getting in the branding, as with branding, do you think you still won?

Adam Williams (42:38)

Yeah. I mean, pick any one thing in your life and do it every day for 12 weeks and you will come out better at that thing. And that's exactly what this was. So, yeah, it helped the business, it helped the following, it helped the Personal brand, and it's brought us other opportunities. There are other speaking engagements that I booked, other podcasts that I booked that are going to be great for us. So, yeah, I, I don't want to say I feel like I won because I absolutely lost, but there were a lot of benefits to this and I have such an unhealthy relationship with winning and losing that it's really hard for me to admit that. But yes, good things came of this. Even though I'm not the one that's going to have the trophy on the show, I might order my own trophy.

Tyson Mutrix (43:13)

As you should. My good buddy Gary Berger, we were having a competition about Google Reviews and he beat me handily and he sent me a second place trophy, which I thought was pretty fun.

Adam Williams (43:23)

Brutal.

Tyson Mutrix (43:24)

I still have the trophy, so it's, it's pretty funny. It's like second place Google reviews or something like that. So if you were to, let's say you were to start from scratch. Let's say you had zero online presence, okay? Like, no audience, nothing. Where do you think people should begin in that situation?

Adam Williams (43:39)

By not reinventing the wheel. Pick the five or ten accounts that you really like, not that you're going to copy them, but we call it R and D. Rip off and deploy. See what they do that you like. See what you see what they do that works, and start from there. There's people that spend a lot of time and a lot of money figuring this stuff out that you shouldn't be going in and doing it on your own. Right? And the cool thing with social media is you see everything that they're doing. You can see what tactics they're utilizing that are beneficial. The other thing I would do, and I guess, I guess it depends on what you mean by starting at zero, is like, again, hiring people that have done what you're trying to do. The company that I hired took a guy from 30,000 to 130,000 YouTube subscribers in like 12 months. I'd be okay with that. And they demonstrated that they were capable of doing it. So, you know, don't try and figure this all out on your own. You're not going to outsmart the algorithm. And there are people out there that are doing a lot more than you are that are figuring out what works. So just take it from them.

Tyson Mutrix (44:34)

I think most people realize that, you know, no great things really are created overnight. It takes some time to build things.

Adam Williams (44:40)

But doing well, successful people realize that. Unsuccessful people think it happens overnight.

Tyson Mutrix (44:45)

Amen. Amen. That's very true. But I Am curious. I mean, a year of brand building is. I mean, it's a lot. So what does a, what does a year full of brand building require from.

Adam Williams (44:57)

Someone for me to do it properly and have it fit into my lifestyle? It requires a lot of focus. So I sat down yesterday for two hours and recorded and I got a week's worth of content and I'll see you next week. And somebody else is going to go and edit that and post it and caption it and do all of that stuff. So that's, that's saving me a lot of time. I think the other thing is you have to be ready to not see immediate results. So, yes, I'm going to keep posting and posting and posting and posting. I. I've put four YouTube videos out this week and only gained one subscriber. And I think you have to be ready for results not to be immediate. And I think the other part of it is now that I've seen what's possible. I was on a guy's podcast in October. He's got 1.4 million Instagram followers. And like, that blew up, right? We drove so much traffic to our website, we signed up a whole bunch of clients. I gained a whole bunch of Instagram followers just because I wrote on the coattails of his personal brand. So.

Tyson Mutrix (45:48)

So the incremental thing is really important. I'm pulling up our Maxwell numbers. So in 25, we got more. We had all of our numbers were. If you were to look at our previous nine years or previous eight years, I guess is what it would have been. We did more in all of our numbers last year than we did in all the previous years combined. But it still wasn't a ton. You know, it's what. But it's like I had to learn something. It's like it just, it's incremental growth. It's slow sometimes, sometimes you'll see these massive spikes or whatever, but those aren't the ones you should look at. You should be looking at the consistent growth. If it's consistently going down, then that's bad. If it's consistently, consistently going up, you just need to be patient with it. So I think that that's kind of interesting with what. Because I was expecting like, oh, by now we should have, you know, 15, 20,000 followers on YouTube. And it just, it's not that how it works, you know, it's. It takes time to grow something, especially when we weren't really doing anything. So I think people need to really understand that patience is a big part of this.

Adam Williams (46:47)

So another a YouTube tip that I'm, I'm working on getting. There is. There's a way. I don't know what the phrase is, but there's a way to basically co host a YouTube video. So, for example, if we had this on YouTube, it could be on the Max Law channel, it could be on my channel, and then we both get the views and the, the, the, the data from that. So that would be good for you. You have so many guests on your podcast that anybody that's got a good YouTube following, I would, I would suggest you turn on that feature.

Tyson Mutrix (47:12)

I, I agree. I noticed that just today, actually, I was listening to a diary of CEO and I noticed that it said to subscribe. I said, well, I've already subscribed. And I clicked on it and it was for the guests. I was like, holy hell. So I don't know how new that is. I'd never noticed it before.

Adam Williams (47:28)

So that I, I learned about it three weeks ago and thought, okay, that's. I need that.

Tyson Mutrix (47:32)

That's pretty handy. Yeah. All right, let's. Let's go ahead. Wrap. How do people get in touch with you if they have questions? And if you are going to be launching another one of these competitions, let people know. But how to get. How to get in touch with you. Yeah.

Adam Williams (47:42)

On all the platforms, I am the real Adam Williams.

Tyson Mutrix (47:46)

Look at that. The. That's pretty easy to remember, too. So that's.

Adam Williams (47:49)

Yeah, it's. I. That. It's better than the AOL instant messenger handle I had in eighth grade. It's evolved over time, so.

Tyson Mutrix (47:55)

Well, Adam, thanks for sharing all the. The great tidbits. Really appreciate it. Thanks for everything you've done for Max Law, too, so really appreciate it, but good luck, man. I hope, hopefully if you do the competition again, you kick her butt. Well, I, I'll try to support you the best I can. I'll. I'll promote your videos, everything.

Adam Williams (48:09)

So, yeah, I'm committed.

Tyson Mutrix (48:10)

All right, man, I'll see you later.

Adam Williams (48:11)

Thanks, Tyson.

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