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- [00:01]
Renee
Are you tired of the marketing guessing game? Does your website feel more like a digital billboard than a client magnet? If you're nodding along, you're not alone. And it's time to stop the uncertainty and start getting real results. Let's talk about your marketing spend. Are you just shelling out money every month and crossing your fingers? Do you ever wonder what impact your marketing is really having on your revenue? Well, it's time to take the guesswork out of the equation with Rise Up Media. We've been working with them for over a year and, and the feedback from our fellow members has been fantastic. Rise Up Media is here to take your marketing to the next level. They'll even perform a full audit of your online presence, giving you the good, the bad, and even let you in on what your competition is up to that you're missing out on. And the best part, there's no obligation, no catch, no pressure. If you decide to work with them, their contracts are month to month. That's right. No long term commitments tying you down. So what are you waiting for? To learn more about how Rise Up Media can transform your firms, visit riseup media.com max law and rise is spelled with a Z. Riseupmedia.com max law.
- [01:20]
Tyson Mutrix
This is Maximum Lawyer with your host Tyson Mutrix.
- [01:30]
Unknown
Rene, you're an attorney, author, speaker, podcast host. You've built a brand that it's so much bigger than just a law firm. And we'll get to the law firm obviously, but for someone meeting you for the first time, how do you describe who you are and how you got here?
- [01:49]
Tyson Mutrix
I'm an entrepreneur and that's what I am before I am a lawyer. Before I went to law school, I was an entrepreneur. I was always like, as is every entrepreneur who has the story of the business. They started at the end of their parents driveway with lemonade stands. Like I was always that person of like trying to come up with something and I'm also a creative which is really like a contradiction to what lawyers are. But that's the part of building which is so much fun. So and it crosses over into building the business and being creative and the visionary about it and, and writing the books where obviously there's a creative element and then speaking it's that infusing that creativity. So that's the like that's what lights me up is meshing those parts of myself that are a little bit unexpected and what people don't really typically see in lawyers in the sense of doing all of the other things because I also get bored Easily, like, if I don't have something going or something in the fire, I'm like, all right, well, now what? Like, it's stagnation scares me.
- [02:51]
Unknown
Yeah. You built this really incredible brand, and it stands out in a niche where I think that most firms feel pretty. A little stuffy, a little stiff. And so what's the backstory? How is it that you decided to approach fame and law and branding and business so differently?
- [03:10]
Tyson Mutrix
It has been a journey. So when I first started the firm, it was the typical law firm name, like everything else. And then I took a leap and decided to rename the firm with just my name. It was just myself at the time, but do all lowercase. And I remember sending it off to get printed. And the printer was like, whoa, whoa. Like, you're a law firm, you're using all lowercase. And at that point, like, that was. You don't do that. That's not formal enough. And so I liked to sort of test, like, what. What can I do that's going to make the business and what I do stand out? So there's that side of me that is always thinking about, like, what's the perception that if someone picks up the ph. Google's online, like, what are they seeing that's going to make them pick up the phone and call our firm rather than somebody else's firm? And it's like looking for that creative edge and looking to be a little bit different. And I think that's just a through line with everything I've ever done and who I am. It's like, how can I just be a little bit different? And at one point, that was. That actually held me back because it's like, you don't want to be too different, right? Because then people talk and it's like, if you're too different, are you going to be taken seriously? And once I sort of dropped that fear thought process behind, like, different is actually good. It's a catalyst for growth. And it's actually the thing that's really the differentiator is when I leaned into it even more and now looking at it like, okay, how can. What can I do that's even pushing the envelope just a little bit more? And that came back to. It's so funny because in this time and day and age, everything's. People are looking for automation and they're looking to make things easy and zoom and virtual and all that. And I thought, I'm like, what if we go back to the roots of what people want and it's connection and so we can bring in all the technology and do all of the virtual things. But at the end of the day, especially in a family law practice, people want connection. So it's, how can we make our clients feel important, feel like they're our only client, connect with them. What level of service can we offer that they will never get in any other law firm? Because we're treating it as if they're walking into a spa or they're walking into some high end boutique or hotel where there's this attention to detail that they would never expect from a law firm. So we're constantly looking at, like, how do we shake things up?
- [05:30]
Unknown
Yeah, it reminds me of the quote by Sally Hogshead. Different is better than better. It's more of her or catchphrase at this point. I don't even call it, call it a quote. It's really a catchphrase. And you, all you have to do is you look at your. I've got your website over here. Happy. Even after Family Law is a pretty incredible name. It's, it's really great because it hits the nail on the head. And I wonder what was the process for coming up with that name? Is it something that just hit you or did you, did you hire a firm to go through that process? I'm just really curious how you came up with that name.
- [06:06]
Tyson Mutrix
So I, it first started as a podcast and we were Bauer Law Group. That was like, you know, typical law firm name. And I knew I wanted to start a podcast. It was like, what was the name of a good podcast? I worked with a company called Brand builders back in 2020 that helped entrepreneurs and business owners really work on their personal brand. And that crossed over into how, what it did to the business. So I was working with a brand strategist specifically for the podcast and building a platform and, and trying to elevate a speaking career and starting to pitch a book. So the thought was never to take Happy even after and have it be part of the brick and mortar business. So I launched so working with her, we came up with the name together by trying to figure out what is it that. What people want, why are they coming to me? And it's like the title test. It's like you want to, you want to give, say it's like a book title too. It's like people are drawn to the thing that they actually want, want. And I'm like, well, they want to be happy. And if they're coming to a divorce attorney, they're not. And they thought they were getting Their happy ever after. And it turns out it doesn't look like that anymore and it's reinvented. It was just a session of brainstorming and spitting out different ideas and different names and then we just hit it with happy even after. And that was the podcast. And probably about six months after I launched the podcast, I'm like, why am I not calling the firm this? Like, it seemed like it was so obvious to me. And then I thought, oh my God, I have to rename the firm the letterhead, the sign signage, the all the things and the expense with it. And I was just like, I just felt it in my gut. I'm like, I just have to like go in and do this and put the investment into that rebrand. And it's so funny because when I launched with it, I had two schools of people. I had some old time lawyers who were like, that's the stupidest name ever, you know, making fun of it. And then I have. But we have clients who call and say I call because of the name of your firm. And so, so you still have those people who are like, well, what kind of name is that? That's a little silly. And I just kind of sit back and laugh because I'm like, you're still, you know, you have a solo of one and like you can't, you don't get to criticize me unless you're like actually in that arena. There's a quote about that arena, doing the work and trying to build and grow and scale. Because for me it wasn't just a practice. This is a business. And how are we going to turn this thing into, into a business that's more than just me as a solo.
- [08:35]
Unknown
How difficult was it of a decision to go instead of say saying happily even after to happy even after that.
- [08:43]
Tyson Mutrix
One was, was pretty easy because everyone gets the like the, you live happily ever after. Like that's pretty typical. And I was thinking it from, thinking of it from a trademark perspective too and did a little bit of research and no one had used that term at that point. Like I did a deep dive on Google and there wasn't anything out there. Now we've had some infringements on it, so was really quick to like, okay, we can trademark happy even after we got the trademark. Can't get the trademark for happily ever after. So similar. But I mean it was that small distinction that said that that's the brand because it's just, just a. Everyone recognizes that other term, but this is just a little bit different enough for us. To be able to leverage that and stand out as that independent trademarked tagline.
- [09:28]
Unknown
I'd be really curious to hear some of the things, the branding lessons that you learned from the company that you worked with that maybe some other law firms could benefit from.
- [09:36]
Tyson Mutrix
You know, so one of the biggest things was before I started that journey, I operated from a place of, you show up as a professional, you keep the act as what one would expect as a lawyer to act and dress the part and speak the speak and all of that. And what that organization allowed me to do was break down some of that a little bit and become a little bit vulnerable as we dug into, like, the why, like, who am I talking to? Why am I doing the work? Why is it important to me? And as we started to do that work, I'm twice divorced. You know, that was the hardest thing I've ever gone through. The shame, the guilt. Like, there was so much emotional attachment to that that I kept buried because I thought it was unprofessional to talk about it. So the process of building this brand was that if I want to build a brand that people connect with, I actually have to share my story. I have to talk about the thing that's really, really hard for me to talk about in public, because that's what people connect with. And so as I started putting power to those words and speaking them, I started to get really comfortable talking about, here's the thing that. Where I was my most broken self, because the people who come through my doors as divorce clients are usually. That's where they are in their life. And so using that personal story to connect with people, which I thought would actually reflect as being unprofessional, was the differentiator between someone hiring or not or calling or not. Because I have people all the time reach out and said, I see what you post online. Your story's inspirational. I listened to this podcast where you talked openly about how hard of a time that was, and I thought you had it all together. And I'm like, guess what? I don't. I don't. I'm figuring it out. And. And you know what? You can too. You can figure out even if you didn't expect that plot twist of a divorce. So it's really using that emotional part of my story to promote and build the business, which I've always kept them so separate for so many years.
- [11:42]
Unknown
How do you, like, what's the dividing line? Where do you draw the line when it comes to this thing's okay to share this thing's not okay to share.
- [11:49]
Tyson Mutrix
I mean, it's a good question on social right? Because, like, everything feels like an open book. Like, listen, you see, you see what I want you to see. Like, that's the. That's. That's the side of it. So anyone who thinks that someone's totally opening up their full story to everyone, like, there's things that. That are sacred. And it's funny because when I started this journey, my. My husband, now husband, sat down and we had a conversation because he was like, I'm really uncomfortable with this. Like, I'm really private. I'm uncomfortable with you sharing and being so open. And we had to work through that and talk about, like, okay, what's okay to share, what's not okay to share? And one hard rule. I will never, ever disparage or talk about anyone or talk about exes in any way or anything like that, because none of this story is actually about them. It's always about the growth that happens after that. But my husband, who was so uncomfortable now, was just like, he's just totally accepted and adopted it and thinks it's a hoot. But so much of that still is like, I'm gonna talk about my divorces. I'm gonna talk about the heart. I'm gonna talk about the pain and the growth from it and the pivot and all of that. I'm not gonna talk about everything, you know, so there's still boundaries that I have. And I think that anyone who puts themselves out there in the podcast world or social media, like, I think it's important to maintain that too, because we do see when people don't what happens. And then, I mean, we see that with even some influencers, right, who have, like, they put everything out and then something happens in their life, and people feel like they've been slighted because they weren't told part of their story or relationship fell apart, and they weren't part of that, and then they're like, blackballed from that world. So it's, you know, it's. Be vulnerable in a really authentic way. Way. But I don't think you have to overshare either.
- [13:48]
Unknown
When you were working with this marketing company or the branding company, do they help you develop which stories that would be. Maybe have the most impact?
- [13:56]
Tyson Mutrix
No, that was. Yeah, so it was a. An exercise of. So one of the things that they do is when you're. They help you craft a keynote and as part of that process is to write down stories that have. Were impactful to you that might fit into A keynote. And don't judge them. Just put it all down. Some of them might be relevant, some might be good, some might be funny, some might be painful. And then as you start to craft the outline of what your keynote, you go to this, like, library of stories, and you can pick which ones are going to be applicable. And as I was working on my keynote, I knew I had the framework. I didn't know what story I was going to tell. And actually, the one that I pulled out to tell was the one that I never thought in a million years I would ever spend speak on stage. And the first time I ever did, I'm like, I can't believe I'm going up there to do this. And every time before I speak, I say the same thing. I'm like, I can't believe I'm going to share this. This story, and maybe I should change it. And my husband always says, you cannot change this story. You have to tell it just the way it is. And I never regret it because sometimes I'm like, it might not be appropriate for the corporate audience or whatever, but it's like, that fit. So. So they were my true stories. I curated a library of them. And then when I was writing my book, I was able to go back into there and decide which other stories would fit into that. So they really didn't help pull out the stories. They just encouraged you to use your own personal stories in order to really make that lock that keynote in and connect with people on a really authentic way. Because you could just go in there and teach a framework, and everyone's gonna go, like, yawn, like, okay, I'm not gonna remember a damn thing from that. But when you start saying something to somebody and you see them crying or you see, like, then you know you're making a connection. And that's the thing that people remember, is how you made them feel.
- [15:55]
Unknown
All right, you know what my question is gonna be? Probably, what was the story?
- [15:59]
Tyson Mutrix
I will not do it on air. No. So I use. I mean, this was. It was extremely painful. I'll the small. The highlight version. Extremely painful moment where I was in my second marriage. I was in Paris in the most beautiful city in the world. And my ex approached me after I asked him for some money to light a candle, because he was holding all of the money. And he turned around, and in a very quiet, quiet place. If you've ever been to Notre Dame, you're walking around, everyone's whispering. He calls me a name that you don't that begins with a C. I won't use it for purposes, so you don't have to use your explicit. Right. So in. In my talk, I always. I just flat out share that version of it, and I don't hold back from what that is. And every time I do it, you hear the, like, the. The unified gasp from the audience as I kind of set the story up. But it. It happened and it was. It's meant to have an impact because the background of that is on its face. My life was perfect. I had everything. The successful career, the business, everything looked like it was really, really good. But behind closed doors, I was broken. And I was slowly being torn down day by day by day. And that was the moment for me that I knew I had to make a major decision. I could. No matter how painful it was, no matter how much shame I had, I had to make that decision because I would not recognize myself a year from now if I stayed in that. And that, you know, people ask, you have a moment? Well, that was the moment for me. So that's. That's the story. So I've said that I've shared that story in front of my parents who never knew that that happened. And, you know, and I've shared it in front of corporations and like, and they don't. Most people don't expect that from what is supposed to be a motivational speaker. But it's the, you know, it's. After I share that, I have people come back and say, you reclaimed that word or you shared that and, you know, it triggered something in them and made them all. Made them have an emotional reaction. So it's like a story that once I had so much shame about and I never wanted to tell anyone because it was like, how did I get here and use it to actually bring people in and connect with them in an audience.
- [18:22]
Unknown
Yeah, I love that. I love how you. You've kind of owned that. That story. That's really good. So thanks for sharing. I. Of course, not to put you on the spot too much, but, yeah, you did. There's this quote, so Becca's has pulled some quotes for me, and I find this one really interesting. And you say, I love failing because it's an opportunity for growth. And that's not something you hear from. From the vast majority of people. That's definitely not something you hear from a lot of successful attorneys or business owners because they kind of want to put that best foot forward. So I wonder where. Where did that mindset come from for you?
- [19:01]
Tyson Mutrix
I think. I think I've failed enough and have done. Made enough mistakes. And when you. When you get used to having the no's of the rejections or having something not work, it becomes easier. Easier to pick up and move on from that. My book is one of those examples because I'm a writer to my core, and I wanted to traditionally publish my book. And if anyone has ever done that, you have to get a literary agent before they go and pitch it to publishers. And I had 113 rejections from literary agents before I got the one yes. And so I got so used to the no that it just became another. It was like, all right, another no, Delete, delete, delete. And like, by the time you get to 75, it doesn't even phase you anymore. But it was like, I knew to my core that this was the thing that I wanted and I was not going to let go of that. Going through those divorces was like, okay, there's failure, failure in those relationships. But I really believe, despite being a divorce lawyer, I believed that the relationship that I wanted existed out there. And I just knew that I wasn't going to settle for something less than. And so that's. It was like, let me pick myself up, dust myself off, and keep going, because what other choice do you have? You give up, you give in. You say, you be a victim, you become bitter, you become resentful. Like, what choice do you have if something doesn't work, then to keep going? And I do think that sometimes the hardest things that you ever go through through are actually the best things in order to reinvent yourself and to redirect you to something way better than you could ever imagine.
- [20:40]
Unknown
That's interesting. I'm also curious why. Why you went the traditional publishing route.
- [20:46]
Tyson Mutrix
Yeah, so I. And I know because that was. It's usually when someone writes a nonfiction book or personal development, it's to build their business. And for me, it was the complete opposite. The book had actually nothing to do with the business. I've been a writer since the. I was a little kid. It's the thing that I love more than anything else in the world, is to put. Start tapping on a laptop and start creating stories. And I knew that I wanted to publish a book, but I wanted to do it the way where there's a publisher and you get the book deal. And for me, there was no other way. There was no other option except to go down that path. And when I got my agent, it was actually for a fiction book, a murder mystery. And I then went back to her and pitched a nonfiction book. That I woke up one day and I had this idea, and she's like, all right, let's give it a try. And that's the book that we sold. So then I had to go back and write that. And that book actually is so not like your typical, like, business book that I'm using to promote something. It's almost part memoir. It's part, like. It's definitely personal development, but there's more to it. There's more like, it's. It's. I mean, I really, like, they. It was. Ernest Hemingway says, like, there's nothing to writing. You sit down at the typewriter and bleed. Like, that's what I did all over that book. And it was just like. So it was such, like, a healing tool for me as well. So it was. It was like that. That was. It wasn't a question. It was just, this is the way I'm doing it. And so for the second book, the next book after that, I just finished another fiction book that we're trying to get published. I have another proposal out for another nonfiction. And people have said to me, why don't you just publish it yourself? And I'm like that. That my writing journey is a different journey than my business journey for the law firm. And I want to see, like, I want to see what I can achieve on that traditional path. I'm not using it as a tool to grow the business. Totally separate lanes.
- [22:42]
Unknown
Do you view the writing in the same way? And I know that it's different from the business, but do you. Do you view it almost like, as a profession or as a business itself that's, like, separate from the other business?
- [22:53]
Tyson Mutrix
Yes, because I have it set up as a separate business, and I feed the. What I didn't know what would come from the book were speaking opportunities. And that was the result of that nonfiction book. So I did end up setting up a separate business, and the speaking fees go through that and anything. And so when you put out a nonfiction book in your speaking, you can then have the organizations buy two or three hundred books as part of your speaking fee. And so there's income coming in from that that is separate. So I do keep those two things separate. And the intent is that as I continue to build my business, that could be a sustainable business all on its own at some point.
- [23:35]
Unknown
You know, as. Since we've. Since we've had Max lawcon and everything, we've had, you know, and several other events where we've had speakers, that is one of the things where sometimes they'll Ask us to buy the books. And I, I wonder, and I actually like the idea because it's, it gives all the, all the guests or the attendees a book and everything. But is there another, I mean, other than getting your book out there and selling more books, is there some other incentive or benefit of doing it that way as opposed to you just getting the money?
- [24:01]
Tyson Mutrix
So for me, my book journey is a long term, a long game because getting that first book deal, I mean, the royalties were, the advance was so small that. But it wasn't about that, it was about order to get that next level. So ideally, in my perfect world, like I make the New York Times bestseller list, right, then the next book becomes really easy to pitch and they give you that much bigger advance because you've already sold X amount. And when you self publish, you can't hit those lists. You can kind of buy your way on to some of the other lists, but like the big ones, you're never going to get on. So I was using my nonfiction she who Wins as a launch pad for the next one and then the next one after that. And so like I look at that as, it's not even about that book. It's about making money on that book. It's about the springboard for us to sell the other one. So with the one that we're pitching right now, the goal is to get a big publisher to pick it up and we can go back and say, hey, this book that was published in 2023 is this publishing company's best selling book right now. And so the next publisher could then say, well, look at, look at what happened when she published under a smaller imprint. And what if now we put some marketing dollars behind this. Now what can happen, you know, if we push this? And so that's really the goal is, is not just to sell the books. Like I'm looking at that as a whole side, again, the entrepreneur. It's the whole side thing as my creative side is another whole separate business. And that's part of it.
- [25:39]
Unknown
I do find it interesting that when it comes to your speaking and your book and the firm, it really centers around storytelling. And I'm curious, how did you, how did you learn that skill?
- [25:49]
Tyson Mutrix
I think it all, it definitely not law school. I mean, I, I'll never forget being in law school and get, and being in the writing class and getting a C in that class because they told.
- [26:00]
Unknown
Me that, ooh, that probably had to make you mad. That was probably.
- [26:04]
Tyson Mutrix
Yeah, right. They, they told me that I wasn't writing to the form that they taught. And I was like, but it's so boring. You know, it was like they. They were like, stripping the creativity from you by. By the format that you were supposed to write in. But I've been like, I've been. My mother actually was packing up boxes and gave me stuff that I wrote and poems and all that from when I was a little kid. And so I've always been a storyteller. Like, I've always been, like, living inside my head as to, like, what can I imagine? Like, I'm the person who sits there at the airport and, like, makes up stories as people walk by. And, like, I'm thinking, like, why are they here and how are they interacting? Like, it's just. It's. It's just the way my brain works. And so it was very natural to use stories, regardless of on stage or in books or with clients or with the business. And even storytelling, the vision of the business. I mean, it just became very, very natural. And I think my instinct early on was to separate the two, because it was like, the business is the business and you have to keep it all business. Like, and I was missing something. And the minute I intersected and started connecting them was. Was when really everything took off.
- [27:18]
Unknown
How do you keep it consistent when it comes from a storytelling and a branding standpoint between all aspects of. Of your overall brand? I am curious because you have your speaking part, the book part, and then you've got. You came on here to talk, you know, you've got the firm, and I wonder, how are you able to keep all of the branding so consistent?
- [27:39]
Tyson Mutrix
It's all related. They're not separate. At one point, like I had mentioned, the podcast was a different name as the business, and they were very separate, and so the branding was different. And then when I realized I can merge them all together, it's all the same message. It's go after whatever it is you want. Like, push through the fear. Don't be afraid of getting rejected. I mean, that works in our personal lives, our professional lives, our business lives, like that. A lot of my audience are women and who are. Whether it's corporate or whether they're a woman empowerment event, they have similar struggles, whether it might be in the relationship or the asking for the raise or starting their own business. Like, it's fear, it's uncertainty. It's not about the divorce. It's about the underlying things underneath that and the emotion. And that's just human experience. And I think that when you just start talking about that, you talk about people's fear. It's so universal. And anxiety and uncertainty. Like, I don't have to worry about one message is contradicting the other message. They're all completely aligned. Even if I'm talking about business one day and divorce the next.
- [28:48]
Unknown
Yeah. It makes me wonder. So family law is very litigation heavy. And how do you make sure that your brand is consistent from, like, everything that we're seeing right outside public? Like, you got the speaking part of it, the marketing, all that. When you step into a courtroom, is that part of the brand or is that something different?
- [29:08]
Tyson Mutrix
It depends. Because if we get to. There's a big part of my practice that's mediation and helping people to let go of the small stuff, like, let's get you divorced and not fight over the lamp. You know, like, that's sort of the consistency of moving on and moving forward and not looking back. But there are times as lawyers, you have to litigate, and you know that that skill set and what I have to do there is it's still on brand because it's still fighting and speaking up and speaking out for what the client, their position and what they think is right and what they think they're entitled to. I'm not one who over litigates or takes things to trial just because it's really the last. The last step, the last, you know, into the road, and usually there's a valid reason for it. And because somebody is being mistreated or funds are being hidden and not fully disclosed, and we've uncovered assets and they need a voice, and we end up in the courtroom because of that. So I think it's still very much on brand about just speaking up and out and being true and advocating for yourself, your life, your happiness, your success, and all of that.
- [30:25]
Unknown
I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to talk about speaking, and specifically, if people want to get into speaking, how. How would you recommend that they. They dip their toe in it to the point where they could. They could start to get their foot in the door and then eventually start getting on bigger stages.
- [30:42]
Tyson Mutrix
Say yes to everything. So I start with the chambers. Like, your local chambers are the easiest way to start standing up in front of a group of people and start sharing your message. And I joined all of the local chambers and then offered like, hey, do you want to put on a seminar about this? Our local bar association, hey, do you want. And I just started doing that, and I was told you should be doing hundreds of freebies before you then start asking for fees. Like you have to really practice craft your message. It's like every speaking engagement is an opportunity to refine and get better, better at it and just start pursuing, connecting with people. Like so much of the speaking world is relationships, and it's having these networking relationships and coffees, and you never know what comes from that. And then I did. I've done a lot, a lot of free speaking. And sometimes I'll just trade speaking for books and they'll get a sponsor to buy books and I'll say, yes, I will happily show up. Because I'm thinking to myself, well, I get to use the credibility to say, I spoke at such and such a conference and there were 300 people in the room. And then I get the clips from it. Your speaking assets, which people want to see that before they put you on stage and you can use it for the next one. But there's always somebody in the room who will approach you after and say, hey, I have something else. Will you come speak? And that's usually I don't do a ton or if any, quite frankly, marketing or any. Anything like formal pursuit of speaking opportunities. I'm not part of a speaker's bureau or anything. I just say yes to every opportunity, which always leads to the next and the next and the next. So you just start doing it. You want to get some really good footage for sure speaking. And that's why when you say yes to all of them, sometimes you can just say, I'll speak for free if you just give me the video footage of it. And then you take those clips and you turn it into a speaker reel. And I think that's probably what, once you have a few of them, one of the most important things, because people want a speaker reel to know that if you're going on their stage, you're going to be compelling.
- [32:52]
Unknown
And I don't know if you have an answer to this, but I'm curious, do you think that speaking is good to lead to more speaking or do you think it is speaking is good to drive business for the firm?
- [33:05]
Tyson Mutrix
So I think it's speaking leads to more speaking. I think the secondary benefit is it drives business to the firm. We always pick up clients from the speaking, but I don't do the speaking to drive business. I do the speaking because I love it and it's that other creative lane and it brings me joy and fulfillment and I love the connection that happens in those rooms. So there's always that benefit where we absolutely get people in contact, clients who call up soon after that. But you have to love it. Like you have to want to be a speaker, love it or willing to work on the craft of it, are willing to mess up or willing to spend a ton of time writing your, your keynote and not just like you can't just get up there. Some of the best speakers that you see have spent hundreds of hours on that same keynote refining it, going to, you know, spending the time watching other speakers. Like there's so much time in it. So if you don't love it, I think that's going to come across on stage. There's tons of ways to build your business. If that's not the one that feels good to you, then don't do that. Like I feel that the same way about books too. Like it makes me crazy when people just put out just books just because. And they think like, if you don't love writing and that process, there's lots of other ways that you can build your business. You have to do something that brings you joy.
- [34:29]
Unknown
Yeah, I think it's a, I think it's a really good point. The speaking part of it, I kind of view it almost like, kind of like a comedian has a stand up bit. Right. Like they've got like their hour that they, and I'm talking more like the big time ones. Like they've got an hour of stage time and they've got to keep developing that, but once they've kind of exhausted that, they've got to create a new one. Is it similar to that with it when it comes to speaking?
- [34:50]
Tyson Mutrix
Yeah. So I, it's funny because I, a lot of speakers will, will rinse and repeat the same thing over and over and over again and then, and they'll use that for years. Like you can get a ton of leverage out of that same talk. You're not supposed to be actually coming up with new, a new talk after every gig, you're supposed to be sticking to that same one and then refining that so that you're speaking to the people who are sitting in that audience and you can pull in pieces of, if you're talking to the insurance industry, you're going to pull in things that they'll, that they'll connect with about that. But the messaging should be the same and that overall piece of it. And I, so I have one keynote I've only done, I'll do like trainings and change things up there. But in terms of like the keynote I won, that I keep refining. It's not ready. It is so far from perfect. Like it's not ready for me to push it aside and do another one, and at some point there'll be another one. But it's not. It's like, I feel like there's just so much more opportunity still within that one. And I know it works, and I know that it creates a feeling in people, in the audience, because I hear from them after I see them. And so why would I change that up? Just because I'm. I'm bored with it. Right. Like, because there's always that risk. I'm like, I'm kind of sick of this one. Let me do something else. But if for professional speakers, and I have some friends who are. Yeah, they're gonna change theirs up because they're hoping to get the call up for another event. And someone says, I want you back, but you need. You need new material. And I think that's probably the difference between that professional speaker, that that's their bread and butter, and that's all they do versus someone like me, that I do that as part of all the other stuff that I do.
- [36:32]
Unknown
Yeah. For people that are sitting down, they're gonna write the first draft, right. Of their presentation or speech, or however you want to call it. What is some advice you can give to them so they can sort of skip a few steps maybe, to get that best first draft? What's some advice you have?
- [36:48]
Tyson Mutrix
You have to think about what you want to teach there. So in any good keynote, you can. The same keynote can be 20 minutes to a half hour to 50 minutes to more than that. And you're just adding. You're layering in other stories and other pieces to it. But the. The main part of that is, what are you teaching and how are you going to give them something to remember on the other side? So there's always a framework. If you look at any book that does really well, there's a framework built into that, so you can kind of build it backwards. It's. What is the thing that you want to leave, that you want. Want to leave people with? And what does that framework look like? And now you can break that framework apart, depending on how long your speech is, and that will tell you how many stories to drop in there. So the framework that I use has four parts to it. If I have a half or 20 minutes to give, I'm giving one story and we're doing, and that's it. If I have an hour to give, I'm going to break apart each section of that framework and drop stories into each section. So it's like, it's modular, and so that's where you're constantly playing like Tetris with plug and play with it. So I'd start with that first, because the story part's easy. Start with, what is it that you want to teach somebody to be a thought leader? Because you have to come out with something new and not just get up there and just tell stories. It has to tie into something that has a bigger overarching meaning. And watch other really good keynote speakers on how they do it. And every single one of them does that. They use a story to anchor in the framework that they teach. And on the back end, they give you an action item that you're asking the audience to do. So it's story framework action. And if you think about it from that perspective, then it gives you a structure to start working with.
- [38:44]
Unknown
That's excellent. I really like that. So if there is that with that, you know, can I think of that same person in mind that's developing that. That speech? And if they're trying to develop their brand and really try to figure out, I guess, their authentic story, what's your advice to them to try to figure that out?
- [39:03]
Tyson Mutrix
So dig down. So if you think about most. Most people who are building their brand or are have something to teach, want to talk about the fake, the person they used to be and how they got out of that. And so usually that has something to do with a pain point or a lesson. So it's think about who you were. And for me, it was like, who was I when I was my most broken self? That's the person I want to speak to, because I know there's so many other people out there who are in that phase of their life right now. And it's. What lesson could I have benefited from if someone was there in front of me saying, hey, this is what you need, or this is how I can help you, or this is what you just need to hear right now. And so I would say, think about who you were at that lowest point, because they say that our purpose is our pain. They say that we teach, right? That, like, we've heard that over and over again, but we're talking to the person who we used to be. And if you think about it from that perspective, that's going to give you the material. So it's. For me, so much of my story had to do with that really, really bad, toxic relationship. And so much stemmed from that. So, of course, when I started speaking, I had to go to that point. I had to, like, start there because it was a complete contradiction of who people think I am or thought I was. Like, of course, that was the point that I had to start and kind of strip away all of that perception. And it's like, okay, this is. This is who I used to be. And I know clients come to me every single day, and they're exactly at that same point. So what is it that I can teach them to help them move past that?
- [40:43]
Unknown
I love that. Before I get to my last question or two, if people want to reach out to you and either, you know, get in touch with you, buy your book, ask you to come speak, just, you know, ask you questions, what's the best way of getting a hold of you?
- [40:57]
Tyson Mutrix
Yeah, they can go to family lawyer ct.com and they can connect with. With me there.
- [41:03]
Unknown
I love it. Very good stuff. So I. I want to ask you a little bit about a quote, another quote, and you said, don't tell me something should be done a certain way. Challenge accepted. So. So tell me. Tell me about that. I'm very curious about that.
- [41:19]
Tyson Mutrix
Oh, that. That one. Oh, my God, that's my favorite. I love when someone tells me something can't be done or they disagree with something because it hasn't been done before. That's how I think of anything. That's. Anytime we do something in the firm, that's marketing, that's different. That's. And someone says, do we really want to do that? And I'm like, okay, let me roll up my sleeves here, and let me tell you all the reasons why we do. And so I love when something feels so. I mean, this is like, just maybe me personally, but I love when something feels so hard that I want to just see what I'm made of. I'm like, can I do this? And maybe I can't. And maybe that's the lesson. That's fine. But I also want to know, like, all right, let me see. Like, let. Let me see what. What I'm capable of. And a good example of this is a few years back, my son had started lifting weights, and he's like, let's do a powerlifting meet. And I'm like, ugh. I'm like, I don't want to do a powerlifting meet. But I'm like, when your teenager asks you to do something and you're going to get more time with them. I'm like, okay, I'm in. I'm in. Let's do this. And that was the mentality. I'm like, let's. Let's see what. Let's see what I'M made of. And I never expected that journey to land where it was. And I ended up breaking state records for my age and. And all of that. And. And then that was the end of it. And it was so funny because I did it. I got the awards and all that. And then people like, are you doing another one? I'm like, no. I'm like, I just want to see if I could. It doesn't mean I want to continue doing it. And so sometimes the journey is really, really fun, and it doesn't mean you have to continue or be perfect at it or not give it up on the other side. And, like, that. That was actually the whole reason why I started speaking, too, because, quite frankly, it terrified me. And the thought of going on stage and speaking in front of people, like, gave me anxiety. And so I'm like, all right, I want to see if I can do it. Because it is, like, I've done it a few times in small groups. I'm like, I want to see if I can go on a bigger stage and see what happens. And I did it a couple times, and I'm like, I didn't die. I'm like, okay, maybe I want to try this again. And each time it's like, I get so nervous, and I still do, and I thought that I would do it and be done. And then I realized, like, that's something that I did and I want to continue to do. So sometimes it's just the challenge of, let's see if. Let's see what happens.
- [43:33]
Unknown
What advice do you have for people that maybe are a little hesitant? Like, so you. You. You were worried about doing the weights, and so I. Which I completely understand, but you got a massive benefit out of actually doing it. And I. And the speaking you were afraid of, but you've gotten a massive benefit. So it's like all these unexpected outcomes because you sort of stepped outside of your comfort zone. So what is your advice to attorneys that are in that same boat where they're uncomfortable stepping out outside of that comfort zone to help encourage them do that?
- [44:04]
Tyson Mutrix
So the question I would kick back to them is, what are you afraid of failing? Okay, so that's not a good enough. In my book, that's not a good enough excuse to not do it. And what if it actually works out? And isn't that enough of a reason to go for it? Because I think for lawyers, for entrepreneurs, business owners, like, we're gonna fail. Like, there's no doubt it's going to happen. You're going to fall on your face, you're going to make mistakes like it's going to happen. But you, it's, it's that the more you do things like that, at some point something's got to work, right? There has to be success somewhere. And so. But if you never do the things, you're never going to get that one time it did work. So what are you afraid of? Why hold back? Like, I mean, I've always say that at the end of my life, I don't want to look back and say, well, I wish I did all, all of these other things that I said. One day I'll do it. Like, I want to look back and be like, all right, I tried all of these things that I wanted to try. Some work, some didn't. But at least I gave it a go. And knowing that I lived a fulfilled life and didn't hold back, I mean, we only have one to live, right? So we might as well, might as well go for it.
- [45:19]
Unknown
I can't think of a better way of ending the episode. So thank you for doing this. Really appreciate it. I can tell you definitely love what you do and I think it's fantastic. When's the next time you're going to speak if you have something on the counter? Because that way people can come watch you.
- [45:33]
Tyson Mutrix
Oh, so the next thing I have isn't until March. The Business Women's Forum in Connecticut. They've been putting on this event for 40 something years and our firm is actually sponsoring the event and I'm the keynote speaker there and they, they get about 600 people in the room. So that will be to date the biggest event that I speak at. So that one's a little bit, a little bit ways out, but that's awesome.
- [45:58]
Unknown
Well, well, congrats on that. That's really cool. Congrats on all your success and if there's anything we can do to help support you, just let me know.
- [46:05]
Tyson Mutrix
Of course. Thanks for having me.
- [46:06]
Unknown
Thanks, Renee. Appreciate it. Foreign.
- [46:19]
Renee
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- [46:24]
Unknown
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- [46:44]
Renee
Or call them at 312-825-7013 collect legal. Because you shouldn't have to suffer in.
- [46:52]
Unknown
Silence.
- [46:55]
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