Chris Early (3:07)

No, I mean, I'm going back to. I got out of law school in 2004. The law was not even a term I've ever heard. It wasn't really talked about as a. It was a, you know, this is a, this is a practice of law. It's not a business. And so I sort of took that as truth. And so, TYSON, for about 10 to 15 years, I was, I'll admit, I was kind of like a hack. I was just. It wasn't a business, you know, Air was on fire, thankfully. Never got sued, never had any real quagmires. But skating close as you get. Busier. Busier. Do you know a guy named Ben Glass? Great.

Tyson Mutrix (3:40)

Yeah, I love Ben. Ben's fantastic. And his son Brian's awesome.

Chris Early (3:44)

They're both awesome. One day I was having a terrible day. I decided not to go to the office. I was just at a tough point. I was getting burnt out. My wife was like, what are you doing home? Why are you at work? I said, she said, you never take days off. I said, I have to take a day off. I was just having a very stressful day and I googled. I had to get to a conference. I had to get out of my world here in Boston. I got to get outside, so I decided to go to a Benglass conference. That was like six, seven years ago. That was a, that was like a launch to go in a totally separate direction. So I would encourage the audience. You know, I know you're into conferences and events. You put on events. I think the practitioner who's looking to grow has got to get out of the freaking office and grow. Because I, I had a good practice, super, super, super low seven figure practice. But it was really me and assistant. It was like, this isn't sustainable. And so I'm sort of like a late bloomer. So you asked me, did I have it figured out being hell no. Right. It's always, you know, a work in progress. But learn from my mistakes. Get started earlier if you're if you're in law school or think about going to law school, develop relationships, network. But some of us have success later. And I found traction later, you know, kind of mid career, 20 years in. So that's been my path of stumbling, stumbling, failing and then finally finding my zone, which is like having conversations like this with you is like talking about this stuff and geeking out. I love this stuff. But that's been my kind of again, odd path in this profession.

Tyson Mutrix (5:08)

Well, other than the pattern interrupt of getting out of the office, what was it, what was it at that, that conference that really shifted your mindset?

Chris Early (5:18)

I mean I didn't so many things was a fire hose. It was like, wow, mindset. Never really heard that term used in law. We don't talk like that. You know, time management. What's that, that delegation. Just, you know, drinking from a fire hose and realizing that oh crap, this makes sense to me. This resonates with me. Like I, I can jive with this. Like, you know, Ben Glass is just talking about being an authority, like writing a book, doing a newsletter, cultivating a tribe. I was like, I can get with that. Like that's cool. I can really. And so that resonated with me. But whatever the room is you should be in, like I found comfort in that room and joined his mastermind, join other masterminds and kind of leveled up as we should. Right. As we advance forward. That was, that was a turning point of like being I think what I took from Ben Glass Tyson being a different lawyer. You know, his term is like a renegade lawyer. I just like doing stuff differently and not being a vanilla lawyer. Right. Not being that scary, intimidating lawyer to the general public. Being like an approachable person who just gets on clients levels and like get meets them where they are. That's what I learned is just like doing things differently and having a. I mean I go on and on. I just. So many lessons I took from him. But you can actually be a happy lawyer. There's such a thing. And I never really like thought that was totally realistic, to be honest with you, until I sort of like a caveman discovering fire.

Tyson Mutrix (6:39)

Yeah. Well, I remember whenever I started practicing, it was about 2010 and. Or it was 2010 and it seemed like there was just a couple of experts out there. And I would, I would consider Ben one of those experts. Right. Where he like a true expert. Right. He's practicing, but he's also, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to the business side of things and the marketing side of Things. But there seems to have been an explosion since them of. Of experts. And I wonder, like, what is. What is your advice on filtering through all of the. The noise? Because there's a lot of bad advice that I see. How do you filter through all that?

Chris Early (7:14)

Really good question. There's definitely proliferation, right? It's.

Tyson Mutrix (7:18)

It's.

Chris Early (7:18)

There's so much out there to. To choose from. I think, like, there has to be a fit. Like, I think Ben's great. Ben's probably not great for every single lawyer out there. And he has. He's. He doesn't want to be. That's part of. I learned from him. You don't want to be everybody's lawyer. Like, you only want to attract a small slice of raving fans will refer and make your life better and rich you. So I would encourage you to, you know, everyone you know wants to take your money. You have to be careful where you. Where you spend your next dollar as you invest in yourself. But you can't go wrong with. With. With going with going out of your comfort zone and finding a good room, a conference mastermind, but just finding one that kind of speaks to you because they're all different flavors. Right? I know this guy, Arjun Robbins out of Florida. He and Ben Glass, polar opposites, you know, Ken Hardison, a totally different guy than those guys. There's so many different flavors out there. But it's really incumbent upon the lawyer looking to grow, to find that right fit. And. And if it's working, fantastic. If not, go to a different room, find a different, you know, expert to learn from. But there's no shortage. You're still right. Almost too much.

Tyson Mutrix (8:24)

All right, so let's. We're going to shift gears drastically. And I want to read this quote to you, and it's. The wound is the place where the light enters you. The wound is the place where the light enters you. You sent me a book, Scaling the Wall, One man's journey of healing childhood Trauma to find fulfillment and success. So when I read the wound is the place where the light enters you, I wonder if that means anything to you.

Chris Early (8:50)

Yeah, all of us are struggling, you know, all of us. I mean, that's one thing I've done recently. Tyson is really get real. That's why I wrote that memoir, is to, like, reveal how effed up I am and flawed and my career has gotten better by being vulnerable. So I think you can find purpose through pain. You know, maybe sounds cheesy, but, like, I have found my sweet spot, which is like scaling a practice Growing up, a place help people out, living a good life where the firm engineers the life that my family and I want to live. And so. But if we don't work on those wounds, Tyson, like, that's a recipe for disaster. See, I wasn't working on those wounds at all. I was getting in my own way. That's why I literally wrote a book about anger, how it was holding me back professionally, personally, how it threatened to bring me crashing to a bottom. And I didn't want that to happen. So every single person listening, watching this has stuff that we all need to work on. I think we have to be honest about the work we have to do. And that book I wrote was about the ugly work. You know, this is like a constant work in progress. There's no, like, endpoint here, but, like, figuring out some stuff to have a better marriage, be a better father, be a better leader at my business, a better person. And so I think it's scary when you don't reckon. When you don't acknowledge your wounds and you think everything's fine. And you. You as a lawyer, you. You keep trudging forward like, no, I got this. I got this. And you burn out. Some guys and gals get into substance abuse, some get into addictions. It's. It's. Can be a very. Depression. It's a very sad field. I mean, as much as I love this field, Tyson, there's, as you know, a lot of sadness. And there's people that, you know, resonate with, with, on this podcast, you know, listening right now, that have pain. And I. It's cheesy, but, like, it's legit. You have to work on those wounds. So that quote really speaks to me. But pain can be a good thing. Like, the wounds can be a blessing. Like, your. Your challenges in life, your. Your. Your fewer issues can actually be a springboard to greater success. I feel like if you harness that in the right and healthy way.

Tyson Mutrix (10:54)

Tell me about the work that you did to. To really dig deep to write this book, because I can imagine that writing it was a bit therapeutic. A bit. It was a bit painful. My guess as well. But tell me about the work that you did.

Chris Early (11:06)

I was at a Mastermind, like, four years ago in the Bahamas, and I'm scrolling Facebook, and I got a friend, John Fisher. He runs the Mastermind Experience.

Tyson Mutrix (11:17)

I love John. So do I. John's fantastic.

Chris Early (11:19)

Yes, he's awesome. He's a good person. I love John. He's a friend. He put on Facebook. Hey, check out my friend Neil Goldstein. My friend Neil Goldstein put out a memoir. Insane was like, what's that all about? So I clicked on it. I said, I need to write my memoir, because Neil's story is very much similar. Growing up, dysfunctional environment, you know, just kind of ugly stuff. And from that point forward, Tyson. I decided, I'm going to write a book. I actually wrote the book. I said, oh, you know, I got a book now. This is good. Then I heard a writing coach who was fantastic. She said, you're going to rewrite this, sucker, because this. This isn't a book. This is. This is not. This is terrible. What are you thinking? I was like, really? This is terr. Horrible. We're going to rewrite this.

Tyson Mutrix (11:59)

Well, plug your. Plug your writing coach.

Chris Early (12:02)

Her name is Danielle Anderson out of Minnesota, and Simon Tyson. We stumble into lucky relationships, and that was the best writing coach I could have hired. Well worth the investment, because if you're trying to write a book, you can't just. Like, I was a hack. Like, I was a hack lawyer for a while. Then I got coaching, right? Professional coaching. Well, I was a hack writer until I got professional writing coaching. So she was worth every freaking penny. And she kicked my ass up and down the street for, like, a year. But it was worth it, right? And that's. That's why I sent you my books. I knew you have a wide audience, and there's people in that audience that need to, I believe, get real and share their story if they're comfortable or at least work on the stuff that we all have. You know, my flavor, people have had it much worse than me. I can only speak to my situation. But that's why I sent you that book, because I was hoping hopefully, to get into the hands of someone who can get some value from that and hopefully make a difference. Maybe it'll impact them a little bit.

Tyson Mutrix (13:02)

What's the purpose behind the name? Or what's the meaning behind the name?

Chris Early (13:05)

I don't want to give too much, so. Well, basically, I was in therapy. There was a figurine on the wall. He was scaling a wall of rope. He was like, just a figurine. And I had a breakthrough in a therapy session. I saw that guy on that wall, that figure said, that's me. I'm climbing. I'm scaling this wall with this backpack on me of all this stuff that's weighing me down from being the husband, the father I should be, the person I should be and deserve to be. And so that's why I called it Scaling the Wall, because it sort of hit me like, I'm that guy. And I encourage the audience, like, I wrote that. Not to make a buck. I'm sure I'm losing money on the deal, but I wrote it because I had that itch. And so I encourage anyone, please reach out to me. I'm happy to send you a free copy. You can text me. I'm happy to give you my cell number, but I really want to send that. I send that book out, Tyson, all the time because I want people to potentially be impacted in a positive way. That's, to me, success, right? Like, being a PI Lawyer is wonderful. I love it. But there's some. Got to be something more behind that. And that, to me, is trying to make an impact. Now, just today, I was at a Massachusetts bar association talking to law students, just trying to pay it forward a little bit and trying to share, you know, my journey of struggle and how with time, we kind of slowly figure some stuff out and get traction and try to do my best to help people out.

Tyson Mutrix (14:26)

How long was the process to. From, like, that moment and then when. And maybe this isn't the right way of putting it, but to when the load was lightened, because maybe the load is never lightened, and maybe you just have tools to deal with it. But I. How long did that process take, though?

Chris Early (14:43)

So I met my wife, and she was like. So she, like me, comes from an alcoholic background. So she. And I really hit it off quick. Like, I was like, this woman gets me. I can get down with her. Like, she's really cool. And so I fell in love with her. And then we got married. We have two kids. But she would put a mirror in front of my face. Tyson, be like, this is. This is. You're angry. You need to work on stuff. You have no idea what you have to work with. You don't even know it, because I did. I thought everything was okay. But when you have a partner holds you accountable, you. You either can do the work or lose that partner. And I don't want to lose my partner.

Tyson Mutrix (15:15)

Well, let's stick on that for a second, because what I think the reactions could be one of a few things, right? You. Someone holds up the mirror and you push back and say, no, you're the problem. They hold up the mirror. You can say, okay, you're right. I need to do the problem. I need to fix myself. Or maybe a third one. Is that you just. No, I just ignore. Just tune everything out, right? And I. I wonder what your. When she first started to hold up that mirror what your reaction was like.

Chris Early (15:43)

You, you don't know what you don't know. I was like, you know, I got my stuff together. I'm a lawyer, I got a business. I've made it out of a dysfunctional environment. I succeeded when I should have failed. Like, what are you talking about? She's like, no, dude, like, you're screwed up. Like, love you, but you gotta, you gotta talk to someone. And so my book chronicles my failed attempts at finding that right therapist. So we go back to that theme we've talked about is find that right fit right with a business coach, a writing coach, with a therapist in my, in my situation, I need to find, you know, the right therapist that could really understand me again, jive with me. And he was my contemporary, my age. And we hit it off, but it took me a long time. I went through like four or five therapists. My wife is like, dude, you got to stick with someone at some point. I was like, I'm trying. I'm trying. So for anyone who's interested in therapy or, you know, trying therapy, I, I personally found it helpful. But whatever it takes for you to find that peace, because I think that's what we all want is peace. And just like, because this profession, you know, I know everyone listening knows it's hard as hell. I was talking about this earlier at this bar association meeting. It'll, it'll erode you if you're not careful. There's a lot of lawyers as we speak here. You and I are being eroded by the profession. It can be an ugly profession sometimes. So to me, I didn't want to be eroded, so I didn't want to lose my wife. And my book chronicles my father's, you know, total self destructive path, like going from literally a high level executive to a panhandler, which I witnessed as a kid. So I had all this scar tissue, but I didn't even know what I thought. Like, yeah, I'm screwed up, but I'm not like that bad. I'm fine, but my wife is like, no, like, it's time to talk to someone. So I did that. And so, but again, I was a late bloomer. I was like 40 when I was, you know, having that epiphany of, you can be having a lighter life and not being so weighed down by this crap, you know, you don't have to live life encumbered any longer. So once I realized that, that I kind of made it out that my dad would be proud, I was like, okay. So I started crying in the strengths Office. Because it hit me in this profound, like, lightness, like, oh, my God, like, you've made it. You can now, you know, stop being so angry and bitter towards the world. Because I would fight defense lawyers. I would want to poke a fight with strangers. Like, kind of crazy stuff. Now I meditate, you know. Now I'm like a different dude, but, like, long, ugly road of work, man.

Tyson Mutrix (18:02)

Before she held the mirror up, did you. Did you start to notice this stuff yourself and you. You were ignoring it, or is this something that you just, you didn't know was happening?

Chris Early (18:11)

A little bit of both. Somewhere in the middle, maybe. Like, I knew I had stuff going on, but it's like, hey, I got. I went to law school. Like, I did pretty good. We're doing okay here. We just. We hung a shingle. We got clients, we got a business. It's like, no, everything's cool. Yeah, but that was masking, like, the reality. That's what I wrote about in the book is on the outside, I look like, successfully inside. I was like, a failure. I honest, I wrote a lot. The challenging thing in that book was not telling other people's stories who were involved in this story because it's not fair, but at the same time telling your story accurately. So that book, I had to. I had to talk honestly about life experiences that don't share other people's story, but shares my story again, that involves other people. So, so many painful decisions. Cried a lot during the writing, as you mentioned and as you assume correctly. Yes, there was. There was crying and, you know, but it's really amazing what the book has done to open up doors is of opportunities to impact kids. That's my. Kind of gets me going is like talking to kids about growing up in alcoholic environments and sharing and, you know, just super humbled that I didn't screw up. But again, this is like constant work, man. I gotta. I meditate every day. Like, I put the work and it's so boring, so hard.

Tyson Mutrix (19:29)

Do you. Would you recommend. Would you recommend that if. If you're married, that both of you go to see a therapist, perhaps?

Chris Early (19:37)

I think it depends, right? I gained great, like I said, traction from it.

Tyson Mutrix (19:43)

But.

Chris Early (19:44)

But marriage is hard. Like, having kids is hard and the whole deal is super hard. But I think it's worth it. But. But, yeah, 100%. Like, I don't see why not. Like, my wife had done some stuff independently before she met me, you know, on her own self with therapy, and she got great results. But 100%, I think there's A big benefit in that instead of just like maintaining the status quo of self destructive behavior. Because again, we both know there's a lot of lawyers that are self destructive and maybe don't even know it. That's why Tyson, like, I love this profession, but it could be that, it could be nasty, it could be tough on us. We, we put so much weight on us. And, but then, so I was that guy. I was, I almost, I was like a badge of honor. It's like, you know, I can be like a prick. You know, like that's like fighting for my clients, advocating. Well, but no, it's like kind of in, it's not really effective advocacy because you're not seeing clearly. You're so like seeing red all the time. And, and I wasn't some like, I wasn't punching people, punching them in the face, like stuff like that. But it was like, it was definitely like toeing the line with defense counsel, with the situations. I could have handled it differently, you know, but, but yeah, so I'm gonna.

Tyson Mutrix (20:52)

I give you an experience I had last year and I had, I got an email from an attorney. We had, we had named the wrong defendant. Okay. That's. It was one of those things where it was, it was, the entity name was identical, but there was like one little bitty thing.

Chris Early (21:11)

So annoying.

Tyson Mutrix (21:12)

Right? Right. So. But I got an email and then I sent a very nice response. And then the, it went from a level of one and her response to me was like a 10.

Chris Early (21:26)

Okay.

Tyson Mutrix (21:27)

And I'm thinking, and I, and I swear to you, I looked up her email to see if maybe she and I had had some sort of run in before, had like pissed her off. And I'm like, I'm like never had never spoken to the person before. It was such an irrational response to my email. I couldn't understand it. So I, and the reason I'm bringing this up is, have you since had run ins with other attorneys that were so used to being you, being the asshole that they're treating you a certain way until they start to realize that there's a new Chris.

Chris Early (21:58)

Yeah, but just going back to your example, like, she wasn't mad at you, right? Like you had nothing to do with that, her issue that day. You were just the object of scorn for some misplaced anger. It wasn't you at all, but it was, it sounds like you didn't bite. You didn't take the bait. See, I would have like, I would have salivated take that bait years ago. Like, oh, you want to Fight. Like, okay, like, screw you. But like, that to me, sounds like an angry, unhappy lawyer, I'm sorry to say.

Tyson Mutrix (22:23)

Well, you know, you know why I didn't. It was a. Right around this time that I learned that people that are like, that it could be something that's going on in their life, or some people just. They get their joy from the reaction. And so, yeah, so I. I stopped giving people the reaction is what it was. And so that was like. It was right around that time I learned that. And that's so it. Normally, I probably would have really popped off and reacted, but I said, no. Yeah, not doing it.

Chris Early (22:50)

Yeah, well, but then you confuse people. It's like, oh, he's not pissed. Like, and then you're, You're. You're. That's like ninja style, disarming someone in a fight. It's like, I'm not gonna swing back. Like, like, why. Why? You're supposed to. So that's like, that's elevated lawyering, right? Like, how. What does it do for your client to get hot at that lawyer? Like, how does that advance your client or yourself in the case? Like, nothing. That's just. That's a waste of energy. So. But again, I see. I mean, like, you know, when I get those emails, sometimes I'm like, you know, screw you. But we pause, right? So, like, I want to just impress upon the listener, the pause for me was so important. Like, learning how to pause and not, like, fire off a level 45 email to level 10 email. Like, pausing is so important before you react. And when I learned that pause, it was like a child learning a new, you know, life skill. Oh, my God, that's amazing. I'm so happy to hear this and learn this. The pause is really important in this profession because you'll be triggered and pissed off. I think you'll have setbacks, right? You're going to punch in the face in this profession. You know, you and I, both entrepreneurs, always constantly getting hit in the face, right? We keep getting up, we resilient, we battle. But I think you have to sort of withstand those blows but not make it harder than you need to. Like, that's why I talk about this weight shedding, this weight of trauma. You know, the trauma. This stuff is sticky. It's still, you know, a lot of people listening to this have trauma, right? And. And it's not going anywhere unless you do that work. I call it, like, it's very sticky. It sticks around. But sometimes that trauma, like, cements as you get older. At least for me it gets hardened and hardened and hardened. It's hard to break, break that out the older you get. So when you combine being a trauma, being traumatized, being a lawyer, recipe for disaster, because you're just like, pissed and angry and maladjusted. But I love your example, that email, because we all get those emails all the time. And it doesn't have to be email. It could be exchanged at the courthouse. Like a rude comment. You get to take the bait. That's like the. The cheap way to go about. But you didn't. You're like, no, I'm cool. Like, let's just, you know, not a big deal. But I just. I get those emails all the time. And I was like, all right, this person is just pissed off at something other than me. That's not my problem. I got enough stuff. I don't need to deal with that person's problem.

Tyson Mutrix (25:07)

Can you give us some other tools that you use? You'd mentioned meditation. What are some other tools you use to keep the calm?

Chris Early (25:13)

Do you meditate or.

Tyson Mutrix (25:14)

No, I was. I had this conversation with a guest earlier. I. I said I wanted to get better. He said, it's not about getting better, it's just about doing it. And I said, okay, that's fair. And so, no, I don't. I need. I will start. I have not started, but I will start.

Chris Early (25:29)

No, it's cool. But, like, I'm not a preacher. Like, you should meditate, like, whatever. People just define that space, right? Space to me is a really big word I never really learned knew about until meditation. So some people like chess, Frisbee, swimming, like, whatever the hell gives you that space. Because again, I hate to say again, this profession will drag you down. At least guys and gals like me who are very flawed to begin with, walking into the profession. So meditation. I just want to share a quick story on how I started meditating. I think may resonate. I was brushing my teeth, and this is kind of when I was like, kind of a hack lawyer. I just had a roughshod practice. I was brushing my teeth one night, it occurred to me, holy. I think I missed a statute. And so you have to understand, Tyson, I was wrapped up in catastrophe thinking all the time, because seeing my father's demise and other people's demise very close to my life, I was always ready for disaster. And I was primed to think negatively. So I'm like, oh, I'm gonna lose my license. I'm gonna get disparate the boards. The Bar Borvc is gonna be all over me. It's all over, Chris. And I looked at the wind. I'm like, dude, you got to figure this out. Like, you are a ball of stress. So I went to my man cave, and I was like, I'm gonna try meditation. I don't know what the hell this is, but I'm gonna try it. So I started doing it just sitting down with my thoughts. This is, like five years ago, and ever since, I meditate. I meditate yet today because it's been a busy day. But I'm gonna make a point, you know, 10 minutes a day, every day, to get centered. It does. Such. My career has really taken off, I think Tyson largely in many ways, due to meditation, because I need to play a bigger game. It's not just all about, like, being a PI Lawyer for me. I need more than that. I need to be lit up more than that. So I find great, great benefit in having space, carving out space. And so there are times where it. Curse me. I brush my teeth, hey, did I mess that up? But it's not so dire. I'm not gonna lose my license. I'm not gonna, you know, go, go mock 2000. 10,000 on. It's like, no, you didn't miss a statute. And frankly, that situation I talked about wasn't even an issue. But. But it was a. That was a blessing because it brought me to meditation. So then I layered in. I think I took this from Ben Glass journaling. I write down three things that I'm grateful for for yesterday, and I now write down every day affirmations because I have to work on this, or else I can get kind of negative. So, like, I literally would write Tyson like, I am abundant, or like, I am humble, I am sharing, I am generous, like, stuff like that, because I need to, like, do this work. It sounds cheesy, but, like, your brain starts to, like, believe it. The subconscious and all this stuff really starts to believe it. And then you start. Your behavior changes. It's been very helpful.

Tyson Mutrix (28:05)

So there is.

Chris Early (28:06)

We're getting deeper, man. We're going super deep.

Tyson Mutrix (28:08)

Well, we're going to go. We're about to go deeper in a second. That's why I'm debating whether or not I should go which way I should go at this point. But I have a. So I work with Jason Selk, and he is. So. He has. I've got the same IMs, right? So I've got all that. And I. If you would ask me when I first started my career, if that was a thing I would ever Do I would say you're out of your mind. That's nonsense. And it really does have an effect. It's. And so anyone that is skeptical, I promise you I was just like you and it really is effective. So here's where we're going to go a little deeper. I'll tell you another, another little quick story and then I'll ask my question. But I, whenever I was applying to law schools, I remember going around to different booths at different like law school type events and asking like admissions offices like hey, what are you looking for? And they were, it was really interesting and you would read samples that they would show you and it was all about being a victim. It was, it was a really interesting thing where like, by that I mean like there was always something bad. Talk about this bad thing that happened to you. And I remember when I wrote mine, I couldn't come up with anything bad. I remember thinking like everything I was like, I have, I've had a great life. And it's, it's weird to me like over the last, you know, 16 years ago or so where there's been this really push towards this victimhood mindset and, but now you're starting to see lots and lots of studies come out about how, how that can, to being stuck in that mindset, how negative that can be on your life. And so even, and what's, what's happened especially with social media because you have all these people that get attention for like the negative videos they have, like almost like had to like develop this negative thing about themselves that's not true but they feel like they have to do it and how negative it can be. But, and I, it makes me think about people like you that could easily have that because you had a really, really tough childhood that you could force yourself to live in that. Instead you forced yourself out of it. So I wonder what your, your thoughts are on that. Almost like, and I don't know who's pushing or where it's coming from but on the whole this, this trend over the last 15 years or so where it's about been about victim mode. So I wonder if you have any.

Chris Early (30:31)

Thoughts on that, right? Almost like trying like the Trauma Olympics. Like, like I had it so bad and like all this stuff right. I, I completely hear that. So I, I, I had it hard, but I still had luck, right? So like it's all about how you look at things. Like I was actually pretty lucky. Like if you think about it like John Morgan, you know, I've had lunch with him, he's been. He's become basically like, kind of a friend, I guess. Like, and I've learned a lot from him. And he comes from poverty and he's a billionaire. And so he just sort of like, assumed he was going to be successful. And I had, you know, probably many ways easier than him. Right. So I bring that because it's like, what, what are you gonna. Are you a victim or not?

Tyson Mutrix (31:18)

Right.

Chris Early (31:18)

It's like there's. I think it's a binary thing. It's like either or. So I just, I didn't want to fail. So I, I looked at my father's demise. I was like, I can't go. I can't fail. I can. I don't. And so that was like rocket fuel motivation. And so I wasn't gonna be a vet. I couldn't. But I got it a lot. So, like, you know, in law school, we bury our heads or sort of like in a different world. Like, we're sort of removed from society. We're so many times isolated. So I came out of law school and I was like, oh, man. Like, I got a lot of stuff I got to deal with. I met my wife and that, that really helped propel some changes. But, yeah, it's easy, Tyson, to be like, I'm a victim. I grew up this way. I should repeat, I statistically should have failed. Probably been a dropout and. But I think my mom sort of pressed the right buttons on the, on the keyboard there when she was trying to help me program a positive mindset. So I sit here today as a very lucky man. You know, born to the United States, you know, born into a family that, yeah, we had problems, but like, a lot of families have problems. So it's all about how you look at it. Right? Right. That's why I talked about, like, mindset and how you think. You know, I started. I was a scarcity lawyer for a while, right? Like, if you settle a big case, that's one case that I'm not going to settle. So, like, I'm almost like, jealous.

Tyson Mutrix (32:33)

Yes.

Chris Early (32:33)

You know, like, to be real with you. And I was like that for many years. Like, he sold a five million dollar case. Like that guy. You serious now? It's like, I'm like, good for him. But I'm like, there's a lot of five million dollar cases out there. Frankly, like, there's so much abundance. So I don't want to go. Sorry, I don't want to get too hooey, hooey here. But like, I was a scarcity lawyer thinking negatively. But I wasn't gonna let victimization make me a victim forever. Wasn't going to let that stuff from back in the day tethered me forever. That's why I went to therapy, got going, and tried to shed that weight from that backpack, scaling that wall. But it's all, like, a choice we make in terms of what we're gonna do. But. But I know a lot of people suffer. That's why I kind of wrote the book is like. And Tyson, the hard thing about the book is, like, I'm really kind of, like, naked and exposed. Like, I'm thinking, like, first I'm thinking, who's gonna want to read this thing? Like, who the hell cares about Early's situation as kid and teenagers? Like, who really cares? I. If anyone takes nothing away from this conversation that you and I having, I want them to take away. To be vulnerable, to embrace the. To be willing to be vulnerable. Because that book is, like, my ultimate vulnerability. Right? When you're vulnerable with your team, your team members, when you walk in the office, you're like, you know, having a tough day. I don't mean, like, going, like, crazy here, but, like, being vulnerable with clients. Like, you know, Tyson, when I, you know, meet with a client, I can give them that book. It's like, kind of street credit. Like, I'm not some lawyer in ivory tower. I'm on your level, and I understand getting over stuff. So it's like, you know, they. They don't have to hire me, but they're gonna get a lawyer who's, you know, very sober and grounded on. On. On feeling very blessed and. And having overcome some stuff. So I think vulnerability, man, is like a superpower, like, legit.

Tyson Mutrix (34:20)

It reminds me of that Brene Brown quote about vulnerability. It's not about winning or losing. It's about having that courage to show up and be seen when we really have no control over the outcome. That's. That's what it reminds me of. And that's a she. And obviously, Brene Brown talks a lot about vulnerability and everything. And I'm glad you brought that up, because I wanted to know how much in your marketing or when you're dealing with clients, you. You deal with vulnerability and how you really kind of expose your wounds. So when it comes to, like, putting yourself out there in marketing, do you. Do you. How vulnerable do you get?

Chris Early (34:57)

I love that question, man. So super quick, I was at a conference, like, five years ago, and the conference speaker got up. He's like, hey, share your story. And I was like, what? He's like, sure. I put a post on social media. Share who you really are as a person. I was like, okay. And, Tyson, I had never shared. I have friends from back in the day who didn't even know my story. Like, my wife, she knows everything, but people close to me didn't even know. So I was like, all right. Like, I'll just write about, you know, some stuff that happened. I put on social. I was in this dingy hotel room, and I put up this post on Instagram. I woke up, and it was like, Tyson, a flood of, like, holy, man. Like, this is. I had no idea, Chris. It was ground like, a groundbreaking. I was like, holy smokes. I was. I was at the Atlanta airport. I started to cry because I looked at my phone. I was like, holy smokes. My wife was like, I'm so proud of you for. For. For sharing. And then I was like, oh, wow. Because, like, you don't know what you're gonna get, like, when you're naked, right? Like the Brene Brown quote. You know, you don't know what's going to come of it, but you're gonna do it. That's strength. That's strong. That's leadership, right? And so I'm sitting there, like, crying, like, putting my hat down so no one sees me, but I'm like, wow. And that, Tyson, changed everything, right? You know, this goes back to, you know, Ben Glass. I owe a lot of success, my success to, like, teaching me there's a different way to. To do this thing. I started to share, and that culminated in the book. But, like, your clients don't care. I see, you know, you and I, Tyson, see all this lawyer marketing. That's cringeworthy. It's like, oh, man, I got this big settlement. Look at my great review. Like, no one gives a shit about that. How are you a human being, just like them? And how can you help them? Because they don't care about you as a lawyer. They care about you as a person. When they can understand you as a person, then it's like, oh, you know Tyson. That's the work he does. I'm gonna refer him in case I trust him. Like, I know who I'm dealing with with that guy. And so with the book with scale on the wall, I sent it to all my new clients. So they literally know who they signed up as their attorneys. Like, they literally know my story. And if they read, they're like, this guy's a freaking trainer. I got to want him. That's all good. Like abundance. There's plenty of people who want early as plenty people who don't. I'm cool with that. Don't try to be everything to everybody because then you're really nothing. I feel like. Right. Does that make sense?

Tyson Mutrix (37:19)

It does. It's funny. I mean, I've been preaching for years about like, people don't care about your big verdicts and they don't care about your big settlements. They. And it. Here's the thing. My. My worry is, is that some people might hear that as. Oh, you're just jealous. No, I'm not. I have plenty of them. I have. And you know what? I. I've got a very successful firm. You don't hear me bragging about it because people don't care about that. They don't connect with it especially. So, like, I came from no money. And I can tell you, if I'm posting about that stuff, I guarantee what they're talking about behind my back is, oh, he, like, Tyson doesn't remember where he came from. I guarantee that it was. It's what. But if I instead talk about something I'm doing with my kids or. Like, there's one most embarrassing post I ever did. It's. It was like my. I. We dressed up ever. So every year for Christmas, we have like a little parade we do in our neighborhood that our family puts on and I'm wearing these tights and like, as like Buddy the Elf, you know, and it's so embarrassing. But I get so many comments about things like that. So it's like that's what they care about. They don't care about your settlements, they don't care about your verdicts. But some people just don't. They don't care either. They just want to keep posting them. But I wish they would stop because I think people would like you way more if you just, you're. If you're a little more. Share more the personal side and less of the people viewed as bragging is what they do. Yeah.

Chris Early (38:41)

No, but I love that story, you know, and, and because people resonate with that. Like, oh, he's a dad just like me. You know, he's acting silly, just like I actually, with my kids, whatever. Like, you know, we're all, you know, can. Can relate to that. But I think we're such a stodgy profession that, like, what are you doing putting on social media, man. Like, like your story. Like, you know, dressing up as an elf. Like, what are you crazy? I'm sorry. I think that's like the default sentiment. It's like, that's too, too much like you're a lawyer. It's like, no, no, I'm a person. And like that's the beauty of being entrepreneurs. We can like do what we want, how we want to do it. It's a, it's beautiful. That's the, the, the, the prize we get for the risks we take, I feel like, is the autonomy. But anyway, I'm, you know, I, I'm gonna venture, say a couple people listen, follow me on LinkedIn. I'm very heavy on LinkedIn. If I just want to share. If you want to get a, if you want to get a good results traction on LinkedIn, Be Real and vulnerable. It's a perfect forum for lawyers to cut through the noise on the big ass settlements and the biggest chest pounding. It's like, no, like, be real. I share Tyson. I have like, I post on LinkedIn every day for like four years, times twice a day. It gives you such track, it's such a great medium to be a real vulnerable lawyer. And for years I was like, oh, LinkedIn, like that's where you put your resume. Like, it's not a no, it's blowing up. But now like, and different platforms are different Instagram. I don't get the traction I get like on LinkedIn because LinkedIn is very buttoned up, professional. So when you cut through with a little bit of vulnerability and realness and giving and sharing your, how screwed up you are sometimes your mistakes, that, that gets traction. Relationships, opportunities. Like this bar association thing I did today, that was because of LinkedIn relationships on LinkedIn.

Tyson Mutrix (40:27)

Oh, nice. So I had a funny post where I, I don't, I can't remember what it was. It was Halloween a couple years ago and I remember I posted it on X and I posted on LinkedIn and I think I posted on Facebook. I get great results on Facebook, great results on, on X. And then on LinkedIn it got, oh, people hated it. The, it was, you know, I was kind of joking. It was a joking one about something with a jack o' lantern. And I can't remember exactly what the post is about, but I was, I was kind of beaten up on insurance defense attorneys. But not like in a mean way. It was like in a joking way.

Chris Early (41:04)

Yeah.

Tyson Mutrix (41:04)

And holy hell, I got some responses that people were not happy with. It was so funny to me how different the, the, the responses were by platform. That to me is so fascinating. So I, I wonder whenever you're messaging, you're sending out messages like what I mean, is like your message, when you're putting out your message, do you, do you tailor it for the platform that you're using? Like, do you change it for Facebook versus like X or threads?

Chris Early (41:31)

Really Good question. Yeah, no, that's important. Important to be kind of not tone deaf because they're all totally different mediums. Totally different. It's like one person analogize. It's like walking to different parties. The LinkedIn party is a little bit more like people wearing suits and like, you know, little again, stodgy. Instagram's kind of like party, you know, Facebook, maybe a little bit of an older demographic, you know, skewing older. Little less party atmosphere. Right?

Tyson Mutrix (41:54)

Yeah.

Chris Early (41:55)

So know what room you're in. But here's something I've, you know, learned that's nothing groundbreaking. If something performs well on LinkedIn, I'm definitely putting that bad boy on Instagram. Right? Definitely going to make a story, a post because that's going to get some lift and a quick SEO thing, right? As AI gets more and more prevalent, you need to be prevalent on social media. Like your name has got to be disseminated on social. You have to. Your knownness has to be over increasing. I feel like. So definitely post be active. But I, you know, Tyson, there's so many lawyers that are kind of scared of LinkedIn to get real, but I'm so past that, you know, I don't care if you want to get results. LinkedIn, seek to inspire and not be cheese, but try to be like, share your failures and how that helped you succeed. Like, people love inspiration because we're all getting kicked in the, in the face all the time. Like, it's nice to hear these stories of getting off the mat and finding some success. But, but now to go back to your question a few minutes ago, like vulnerability, authentic marketing is the way I know that's been hackneyed. It's trite concept in recent years, I think. I don't think it's ever going to go out of style. I think you really have to show up as a, as a person, like who you are, because I think that brings you a better career. You're going to have like clients who are down with you and know who they're dealing with and they're probably going to give you less problems because they know who you are as a person. You're not just some lawyer. It's less of a transaction, more of a relationship. So I encourage the practitioner, create relationships with your clients, try to get a little real with them, show them A silly side, dressing up like an elf. Like, they're all going to remember that stuff. Try to be like, not so lawyer, like all the time.

Tyson Mutrix (43:36)

Yeah, that's. Anytime I cannot be a lawyer. I always love whenever I get the. Someone like a client will come in the office. I'm wearing jeans or something like. Like, oh, my gosh. I didn't expect you wear jeans. Like.

Chris Early (43:47)

Well, yeah.

Tyson Mutrix (43:47)

That's all you're gonna get with me unless we're going to court. So you're not gonna get. Yeah.

Chris Early (43:50)

Hope you like it, buddy.

Tyson Mutrix (43:51)

Jesus. As nice as I go. Okay. Like, I'm wearing like, athleisure wear right now is what I'm wearing. Or our shorts is what I'll be wearing otherwise. But I wonder when you. When you wrote Scaling the Wall and you saw your story on paper, did anything surprise you?

Chris Early (44:12)

Not really. I was scared. I was scared about the reaction. I was concerned what people close to me would think. I was scared nobody would care. But then it's like it wasn't. It was the other way it was was like that moved me. It's. It's like people know who you are. Then it's like this. This breaks down barriers. Like, oh, I know who that guy is. Early as, you know, messed up just like I am. Like, that's what we're talking about here. It's just being human being. Yeah. We provide legal services, but like we said at the beginning, this is more just like being. Being real and honest in who you are. Like, not fronting, like not putting on airs, just being real. I think people connect with that for sure. My career has gotten so much better, man. Just being real authentic.

Tyson Mutrix (45:00)

Do you. When you look at the before Chris and the After Chris, that's how. That's how I'll classify you.

Chris Early (45:07)

Yeah.

Tyson Mutrix (45:08)

That's why a little bit different. Did if you think about, like back about your day, your typical day and your day now, does it look different?

Chris Early (45:19)

Yeah, like I'm more relaxed.

Tyson Mutrix (45:21)

Well, so I'll make sure I'm clear about this. I want to make sure. Is it the. Is the structure of the day different? Like, did you. Do you go home earlier now? Did you spend more time at the office before? Can you talk about that part of it? Or is it just strictly a mindset shift?

Chris Early (45:34)

I think mindset is like the secret sauce to anything worth doing. Like having a good, healthy mindset. And this is a battle for me. It's not like some, like, earliest got to figure out.

Tyson Mutrix (45:42)

No.

Chris Early (45:42)

Like always trying to have a healthy, you know, healthy Mindset and. But, you know, once I had an epiphany about six years ago, caveman, you know, fighting fire. That analogy. I got into time management, got into delegation, hiring so I can have more time with my family, going on vacations, not checking email, not being tethered to the office, thinking different, being like, for me, disruptive from the norm for attorneys. Right. The more you're different from everyone else, I think the more satisfaction you can have in this career. You know, Dan Kennedy. I've learned a lot from Dan Kennedy. Right. He says, you know, whatever the majority is doing, go the run the other way, sprint the other way.

Tyson Mutrix (46:22)

This.

Chris Early (46:23)

Right.

Tyson Mutrix (46:23)

Yeah. This reminds me of a really good. I'm so glad you said what you said because I actually thought you were going to say something different. But when your, your answer reminds me of a, Of a video I saw yesterday, and it was a guy talking about something he had told his daughter. And it was the, it was, it was. The whole video is about like self worth. But it was, he was, he told her, okay, take your car. She has, she had an old car. Take your car to the dealership and I want you to tell them how much it's worth. She comes back crying, she's all upset. They only told me it's worth this. And they were, they said there's a scratch there and it's, it's got so many miles and all these things that are bad with it. He said, okay, now I want you to take it. And I can't remember the other place, the second place, where, what it was, but she took it there and they said, you know, they didn't like it. They said it was, you know, dinged up and too old and yada, yada, yada. And he said, okay, now I want you to take it one last place. I want you to take it. There's this old classic car show. I want you to take it down there. And she comes back, she says, oh, my gosh, dad, they loved it. It was amazing. This is incredible. They said, you know, yeah, had a, had some character and all these great things about it. And he was talking about how. Well, see, it's not, it's not really about you. It's about the room that you're in now, the way, the way, I guess the way this would apply to you. It's, it's not the way your day structured, it's the way you view your day. And I thought that. That's really interesting about what you said because I thought for sure you were going to Say, because that's what people focus on is like, okay, you should time block and you should leave at a certain time and you should go do this and you should have a hobby. But the reality is, is that it's just a shift in your mindset and you change your mindset and all that's all that it doesn't matter what your day looks like.

Chris Early (48:08)

Yeah, the shift, right. Intentional just really shifting in a, in a, in a positive direction of like, again, Ben Glass, this is what I learned years ago that I've taken with me is that like, again, you can be a happy lawyer, but you better be damn sure and clear on I'm willing to do the work. Right. To get there. Like, what's your destination? Where are you trying to get to? I know where I'm trying to get my firm. I know what I want from my family. Family to get from this business, what I want family to get. Very crystal clear path. Like, I think it's important to, to have that clarity on, like where we're trying to get to and being intentional. I was just talking again lawyers earlier today. I said, you know, a lot of us, you know, who are working, I don't know, 12 hour days can probably get that work done in six hours. Like we're always saying, no, I'm, you know, tethered to the office. I can't know. Like, like you could get so much done in a day, like by time. You said time block. Being efficient, that's going to make your life happy. You're not like working so much, but I think all of us try to kill ourselves and work so freaking hard. Like, you don't need to do that anymore. Like, that's, that's no longer, you know, what's that expression? That law is a jealous mistress?

Tyson Mutrix (49:10)

Yeah.

Chris Early (49:10)

That's old school, baby. Right? That's not like today. It doesn't need to be that way. We don't need to be that way anymore.

Tyson Mutrix (49:18)

Yeah, it's, it's like that Albert Schweitzer quote, success isn't the key to happiness. Happiness is the key. Key to success.

Chris Early (49:26)

I like that.

Tyson Mutrix (49:27)

That's a, it's a, it's a really good quote. Something that, that reminds me of. Okay. So I know I, we only have a little bit of time left, but I, I know you don't want to give away too much of the book, but we want to make sure we pass the message on to as many people as possible. Right. Is if, if you could pick one thing, one lesson from the book that people should pick up if they're not able to read the book, right? What's. What's one thing that they. One takeaway. You can give them that if. If they only listen to this part of the episode that you really want them to know.

Chris Early (50:03)

Heal your pain. Like, whatever it is, heal it because it's. I can tell you I have a PhD and like being weighed down by. By ugly stuff. Trauma. Right? Like heal that pain. Because we all have pain, some different than others. We're all pained. But like, how can you be an advocate for people who are going through pain if you're not dealing with your own stuff? How can you be a healthy advocate, right. For your clients if you're not processing what you got to get through? Some of it have much worse than me. Much, much more severe. But we're all similar in that we have to heal that pain. That to me really was like an epiphany that got me going in a much better direction.

Tyson Mutrix (50:41)

Chris, thank you so much. The book is Scaling the Wall. One Man's Journey of Healing Childhood Trauma to find fulfillment and success. I'm assuming people can find it on Amazon.

Chris Early (50:50)

Yeah, but look, I legit would love to offer send it to you for free. You know, can I get my cell number? Is that okay?

Tyson Mutrix (50:56)

You can. I was gonna say if people need reach out to you. Give. Give Chris early.com and give. Give out your cell phone.

Chris Early (51:01)

Yes. Famous last words. My cell. I'd love you to text me. If you send me text, give me your name and your best mailing address. I'll send the. I'll send a copy to you. I send out. I've sent out 200 copies this year. I'm. I love the work. I'm proud of the work. I want to share the work. Hopefully inspires someone to maybe write their book and help others and share it with someone who could benefit from the book. Text me. Call me my. Myself. 6179-5625-0161-7956-2501. I love these conversations. Your podcast is freaking awesome. I'm on a lot of podcasts. You're a very good. You're a very good interviewer, a very good host. You do a very nice job. I'm to tell you that. Awesome.

Tyson Mutrix (51:41)

I appreciate that. That means a lot. That really does mean a lot.

Chris Early (51:43)

Legit. Legit. You're good. So keep doing your good work, man. It's awesome.

Tyson Mutrix (51:46)

Thanks, Chris. Really appreciate it.

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