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- [00:03]
Tyson Mutrix
If you've been feeling like your law firm is solid, but you know you're capable of more, this is your chance to tap into that. Maxlock on is happening this October and we just released the full speaker lineup. These are law firm owners and industry experts who are in the trenches, sharing exactly what's working to grow, lead and scale. This is two days designed to challenge your thinking, recharge your momentum and help you walk away with a strategy you actually want to execute.
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David Haskins
You.
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Tyson Mutrix
And here's the heads up. July is the last month to save 500 off your ticket. Once August hits general admission pricing kicks in. So if you've been waiting, now's the time. Go check out the full lineup and grab your ticket@maxlawcon.com we can't wait to see you there. Get ready because here's your host, Tyson Mutrix.
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Unknown Host
Now we going way up.
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David Haskins
Don't be used as easy as a layup. Fucking late. Stay up, stay up.
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Unknown Host
Count not away.
- [01:00]
David Haskins
Welcome to the Guild live show. This is going to be a fun one. I've got some good topics to cover today. We're going to be talking about lost leads. A little. I'm going to tease a little bit of a training that we had in the Guild yesterday with the wonderful David Haskins Number one question we're into that. The number one question that job candidates should ask employers. And so this is one, I think that affects all of us and one I wanted to cover. And we're going to talk about poaching. That's a, that's a article out of about meta. We're going to talk about a story that I covered a few months ago when it comes to Jaguar and Llama, another meta story. So really there's only one AI story here that we're going to talk about. But. And that's the Llama update. We're going to test it out. I've not tested it out. So I waited, okay, I waited for you all to test this thing out and we're gonna, we're gonna have a little fun with it. We'll see. But it looks really interesting. Apparently it's outperforming maybe all of the major models. I, I did see a headline that it's, it's outperforming all of the major models. But I, it's one of the things, I don't know. I haven't, I've not played with it yet. But let's get into the first story and that has to do with lost leads. I want to play this audio clip that we played in the training yesterday from David Haskin. So I would love to hear your all's thoughts on this. I really would. I know I've got very strong opinions about it, but check this out.
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Unknown Caller
All right, mister, what you have going on today?
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Unknown Host
Well, not too good. I'm in the process of moving out of this apartment. I'm actually in the process of moving out. My son fell down the stairs. He actually, actually was a missing reel from the apartment complex. Didn't even know anything about it. He went straight down. He's in right now.
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Unknown Caller
Right now.
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Unknown Host
Yes. That children's hospital he's got Amazon just took him down there. I'm trying to, you know, get much back as I can get.
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Unknown Caller
Yes, sir. First off, do you have any pictures of the stairs? And how about how many were there?
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Unknown Host
Well, the fire truck and everybody, they got pictures. Landlord, they got pictures.
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Unknown Caller
Okay, you definitely make sure you get a hold of those. Especially if he's definitely make sure you get those. That way you'll have them.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, we got witnesses and all that.
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Unknown Caller
Gotcha. Okay, so there was a missing rail and he fed on the stairs. How old is he?
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Unknown Host
He's only one and a half. Oh, he fell like from the third to the second floor off the, you know, the outside staircase.
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Unknown Caller
Yes, sir.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, he didn't fell on the ground, you know, from the outside. He came from the. He was on the. On the porch, you know, like staircase. And then I notice he just. Boom. Went down like what the hell? And all of a sudden I noticed it was a damn missing rail. So the property management.
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Unknown Caller
Not down the steps.
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Unknown Host
No, no, no. It was a missing. It was a real. That was missing.
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Unknown Caller
Gotcha. Okay.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, the property manager and all of them was out here just now. Everybody, it was out there looking. They try to nail up another piece back. They need another piece back up on it. So I'm trying to make some cover my side. I'm really trying to make sure my son is okay because I don't know what his condition is right now.
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Unknown Caller
Yes, sir. So this happened today?
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Unknown Host
This just happened. I will go.
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Unknown Caller
Okay, gotcha. So what I'm gonna do, I've got your intake in before I can turn it over to the attorney for review. He. He's gonna ask for pictures of the.
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Unknown Host
Real and I mean, can't help me out, then I'll call somebody else. That's what I'm saying. It just happened, sir. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to handle it. I don't have Any pictures? Property manager got pictures. They all down here right now.
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Unknown Caller
Yes, sir, I understand. I'm not saying that we can't help you. I'm just saying that it's good. We. We're gonna need the pictures of that. But not only that. Just.
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Unknown Host
I don't have it. You have to get it for the property manager and the fire people.
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Unknown Caller
Okay? Yes, sir. Give me one.
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Unknown Host
I called them up here to do that.
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David Haskins
Okay, so. And then the rest, it. They're on hold and the guy hangs up. Okay. And that's. That's what was on screen. Those of you that are watching, you can see that. But those of you that are listening to this on the screen, it. Because all of the text from the call is. The transcript from the call is on the screen whenever it's playing. But. So a few thoughts on this one. I. I don't know why it needed to be handed off to an attorney to sign up the case. Okay, It's a case. Sign up the case. Get the case up. But there was. It's interesting about the wording that she. Some of the wording she used. And I've listened to this call now several times because I've. It. It is a really good case study, but in the way she. Some of the phrasing. And I. I catch something new every single time. I just caught something new again. And so before was the, The.
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Unknown Host
The.
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David Haskins
The. What I called yesterday, the dividing line. She goes before I can get this off to the attorney. And the way it sounded is like, basically, we can't do anything until you get his photos because she. She kept harping on the photos, which. The fo. The photos. Yeah, they're important. They are important. Are they absolutely necessary? No, you don't need them for the. To sign up the call. But the way it was worded, it was like a dividing line between him getting help and him not getting help right before the attorney. Before we hand this off to the attorney, we're gonna need. Well, and he interpreted that as like, hey, listen, you're gonna help me or you don't. And he's just wanting help. All he wants is help. That's all he wants. He just wants some help. Please help me. I don't know what to do. He called an hour after. He called an attorney after an hour after, because he didn't know what to do. He's lost. He's lost in the woods. He's. He need a lifeline. So this could have been easily signed up over the phone, and you all could have someone out investigating that case in a couple hours or less, depending how good your investigator is. Right. He needed to be comforted in that situation. There was also clearly, I don't know if you hear the typing, the typing, she was like just trying to type away, get as much information as possible, but no empathy, right? Like, she did express some. I can't say no empathy. But on a scale of 1 to 10, she's like a 5. You know, like the empathy was pretty darn low. She not didn't express a whole lot of empathy. There's another thing, though, which was interesting. The. What I caught just a moment ago, it's one I didn't catch before, is unintentionally she escalated the situation when she's. And it's an odd thing to say because she was trying. I think she was trying to be respectful. But she said the way she had said, sir, it was, It's. It was like. It was almost like she was lecturing him in a way. It was in. It was like, if you, if you listen to it again, that escalates it even more. And whenever she actually, we'll get to, you know, her putting on hold without any real notice at all, but she just kind of goes, sir, sir. Sir or sir. And it was when I heard again, I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like that. I know what you try. What she was trying to say, because she goes, you know, sir, I'm not saying we can't help you. What I probably would have said in that situation, something like, well, I'm not. Oh, I'm not saying that. I'm. We're not gonna help you. I'm just letting you know it's an important thing that, that, like the tone of it, it's really important. That's where it's not just the things that you say to the leads. It's how you say the things and the tone that you're using. And so training your people on that is really important. So some saying something like, you know, oh, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that we're not going to be able to help you. I'm just letting you know at some point we're going to want some photos. And if you can't get them, that's fine. We'll get them from the, from the paramedics or the off. I can't. What. I can't remember if you said paramedics and then the office manager, the property manager or whatever. Oh, yeah, we'll. We'll take care of Those, we can send someone out and get those. If you're unable to get any photographs, you know, comforting him as opposed to, sir, we're not saying we can't help you, you know. But then she, she said, well, give me a second. She said, give me a second. I'm put you on hold. Or. I don't even know if she said she's gonna put them on hold. But she didn't say why. Nothing. Right? She just. Boop. Hold music starts and click, he hangs up. Interesting part of the story this. So David actually has a. A software that he is selling that people can pay him for and they were able to actually save the leave, which I thought was kind of interesting, is they were able to go back and still get that case, which, which is a really interesting thing. And I'm surprised that the guy was not already signed up with another firm by the time that they called back because it was like a week later. But really interesting thing. But that's, that is what I've got. When it comes to lost leads, I thought that was a really interesting story. The next thing we're going to talk about is the number one question that. And this is according to an article that I saw, it's the number one question that candidates should be asking us as employers. And this is from a CNBC article that I saw pop up on my phone the other day. And it's to figure out our company values. I thought this was interesting thing. Remember, this is. This article is kind of written to a job candidate, so remember that. But I thought this was really interesting. So we're ready for these types of questions. This is directly from the article. Ask directly and you'll usually get those same vague buzzwords. So you'll need to do some sleuthing. So let me, let me go and put this on the screen so you can actually see those of you that are watching, those of you that are listening, you can just continue to listen. So I'm going to read this to you, but figure out how to come to these values. Ask directly, and you'll usually get those same vague buzzwords. If, if you, for example, if I said, hey, your company's values, you'll probably just spout off your core values. So you need to do some sleuthing. And that's where the job interview comes in. There's one question that cuts through the bs. What kind of person should not work at this company? I thought it was a really interesting question, a really good question. What kind of person should not work at this company? People ask it are usually stunned. It almost always catches managers off guard. But that's exactly why it works. And that is, it's interesting because it's very similar to our question that we asked. When it comes to, you know, what would your best friend say about you? Or say something. What's. What's something your best friend would say that you need to improve. That's a question that Kristen asks candidates all the time. And it's a, It's. It catches people off guard because they're, they're thinking, oh, what would my. What would my best friend say? Not what would I say? What would my best friend say? This is a very similar question that it gets. It catches you off guard a little bit. So, you know, what kind of person should not work at this company? Right? So you're, you're figuring out who's not the right fit. So you're kind of. You're backdooring. You know, how. How you're figuring out what the company's core values or what their values are. And it says, because the answers are often more honest, less rehearsed, and far more revealing, here's some real responses my students have heard, and this is the person that wrote it. A person who doesn't want to text on weekends. Someone who wants to try out different roles. This is a place for specialists. A person who's too social. Excessive wokeness does not really fly. Here. Anyone who likes to work on their own too much. Now we're getting somewhere. These answers reveal true values in high relief. I don't know what that means, but anyone who likes to work on their own. So to me, okay, this is a team. This is a team environment. Excessive wokeness does not. Not. Does not really fly. I, I could say that that's probably more of a conservative environment. A person who's too social, that's to be more of a. Less of a team environment. Maybe, I guess someone who wants to try out different roles. This is a place for special. So they, they tell you in that answer that, you know, this is a place for specialists. So, you know, we don't want you jumping around from roll to roll. We kind of want you stuck in the. And I want to say stuck in one place. You're gonna stay in your role. You're do that role. And then a person who doesn't want to text on. Does not. Doesn't want to text on weekend. So on that one, you know, they want communication around the clock. It sounds like, but. Sounds like a. Sounds like a great environment. Not really but that was an interesting one. So be ready for that question. Right? That's a really good one. What kind of person should not work at this company? So that's a fun one. All right, let's talk about poaching. This is also really interesting because Sam Altman had. This is. This was a leak from. So this is from Wired. This was because of a leak from a Slack message that Sam Altman had sent to his team. And it's really kind of interesting. He was, he was. He's mad about Meta and their poaching. And I, I can tell you I was when it comes to poaching, I've always kind of thought it as distasteful myself, to be honest with you. And I'm. It's. There's probably nothing wrong with the strategy, but I do find, I find it really hard especially I mean even in like the St. Louis market, if I were to go and try to poach employees from other injury firms, I feel like it's a still a pretty small market or even the not just the attorneys bar in general in St. Louis, which is not a small city. Right. It's not a tiny city. I'm a little hesitant to go and try to poach employees from other firms. And that is that, that is a little. So I want to talk about this a little bit because some of this just might be my own little, my own thing I've got to get over. But this article is interesting because they talk about, you know, Sam Altman called made his poaching distasteful and a slack to his team. By the way, this is from Rowan Chung. This it's a post he shared but it's about. He shared Wire's article and Rowan Chung. If you want AI news, he is fantastic. So it's at Rowan Chung. C H E U N G I've mentioned him on the on the show before. He's really good. In this message he claimed Meta missed top targets went far down their list meaning down open AI's list to get to people warned of cultural problems from poaching said salaries are being evaluated and OpenAI stock has much, much more upside. And then the actual article or the the Slack message part of it is we have gone from some nerds in the corner to the most interesting people in the tech industry. At least he wrote on Slack AI Twitter is toxic. Meta is acting in a way that feels somewhat distasteful. I assume things will get even crazier in the future. After I got fired and came back, I said that that was not the craziest thing that would happen in OpenAI history. Certainly neither is this. And then in the Wired post, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman is hitting back at Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg's recent AI talent poaching spree. Missionaries will beat mercenaries, Altman wrote in an internal memo to Open AI researchers. Tell me if you think I'm wrong. I'm very, I tend to agree with Sam Altman. I think that, I think the poaching is a little bit distasteful. The way he's approached it too, I think is part of the problem where they've openly said, I mean, and I think some of the numbers have been exaggerated. I've heard that he, you know, Zuckerberg was offering $100 million to, to people from open AI. I, I, then I've heard that that's not true. Other things I've heard is like, you know, it depends on how you calculate it. And so there's lots of different things, lots of rumors out there, but they, I mean, they openly have said that they're going out poaching open AI people in this current industry. The way things are, that current industry, when it comes to AI development, everything, this right now is the wild west. And anything kind of goes at the moment, I guess. And so things are rapidly changing. And I could see the, the need to go and get like some super elite tech people. I could totally see the need for it. So I can see it both ways. But yeah, interesting, interesting stuff. All right, I want to go on to the new to the next story. And this is the update on Jaguar. All right, so those of you that don't remember, this is one where back, it was months ago, but they had run a new marketing campaign. You know, it might have been the super bowl. Now that I'm thinking about, it might have been the Super Bowl. And back then there you can see I've got a ad on the screen. Lots of colors, right? Lots of very, very colorful. It was a little odd, in my opinion, based on the typical Jaguar customer. It really was. Lots of, you know, got the picture of your yellows and oranges and pinks and it was, it was just, I thought it was an odd, I don't know how to describe the, the commercial other than super odd. There was, there was no car in the, in the commercial. And then they ran a series of clips after the, the commercial. It just was bizarre to me. And I, this is come coming from someone that I had never, I've never owned a Jaguar, although Growing up, I really wanted a Jaguar. I love Jaguars. I thought they were great, Great. Even though that they, they've got a British, they're a British vehicle. And they, they had a history of terrible engines. Not all of them, I guess, but many of them, Many engines were built, were made, and they were terrible. But that being said, set that aside over their, their history. Some beautiful cars. Beautiful, beautiful cars, but not one vehicle was in it. And I mean, I've seen some really cool vehicles in their ads since. So they have started to put some in there. I think that they're shifting to an all electric fleet. I may be wrong about that, but I know that many of their vehicles are shifting to electric and I understand the need for why they wanted to do this, because they wanted, they felt that they had to rebrand because their, their demographic of customers was kind of dying off. Right. They've had slowing growth for a while. Okay. But that's what comes. Here's the story. We are in July of 2025, okay? The sales have, have come out and this is where I don't, who knows if this is going to continue. I don't. But what's interesting is if you go and you look at all the, the updated numbers. Jaguars, April 2025, Europe. Sales plunged 97.55%. Okay. From 1,961 units sold the previous year to just 49 vehicles, marking a near total collapse. During its rebranding phase, BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi each retained market stability, selling approximately 50,000 to 75,000 units in April 2025 across Europe. So this isn't some sort of industry trend. That's why this is, that part was in there. This is a total freaking at the moment. It's a total flop. I mean, it is an absolute total flop. And the reason why I want to talk about this, this obviously is not for. It's not a car industry show, but it is something where we got to talk about branding and things like that. And you have to really protect your, your brand and your reputation. And if you don't, you could really alienate your core customer base. Your core client base. And if you don't, or if you do, you could be in a lot of hurt. Just think about if you, if your sales plummeted 98%. Me think about that 98%. That is. I would be terrified if I were running Jaguar right now, if my law firm lost 98 of its sales, I would be terrified right now. So it's a, it's a, it's a Warning message is, what I'm saying is be careful when it comes to your branding and, and, and protect your brand. Be consistent with your brand because it's, I mean, when we talk about brand, we're really talking about reputation. That's what we're talking about. So be very, very careful with your reputation. All right, let's get into the last story, which is Llama. I guess that's how you say it. I think that's how you say it. But I, I figured we can have a little fun with this. And I wanted to test this thing out for the first time. I waited for you all to do it. And so this is one. Change the outfit in my video to a space cadet. So I. That's. That's one. That's like one of the first ones in here. I did pull up because I saw that as one of the options. I was at an award ceremony last night. So my parents got best. I guess they call it, it's basically best mechanic in Columbia. So best auto garage or. Or what. I think that's what they call it. Auto shop. I got best attorney. I, I say. But it's really. The firm got best attorney. That's. That's the way I look at it. Because the firm is what makes it so special. It's the people. So it's not me, it's the people that. That do it. They make me look really good. But I figured we can do that. I was going to try to take that photo and so let's see. Change the outfits into this photo to space. What I camera with the head on there. Astro. Is it astronaut outfits? Well, space outfits is what I'll say. Space outfits. That was one of the options there. So I was like, let's just do that. Oh, you know what I did? I uploaded the article on accident. That was not. Let's do that again because that, that was the article about the figure out the company's values. So that clearly was a fail on my part. So let's do that again. Let's see. Upload an image. Upload and. Oh, that's because I, I don't know if you all have max, but if some. You have to convert these to a JPEG sometimes. So we're going to do that and I'm gonna. That way we can file. We're gonna save as JPEG and then that way or PNG file and that way I can actually upload it. That was causing part of the issue. And we'll do that. See, this is the part of the problem of doing this in real time. Okay, here we go. We're going to do this again. And it's uploading. And I can actually spell photo correctly here. So those of you that are just listening to this, I'm doing is I'm uploading this photo and I'm gonna see. We'll see what it does. So I'm asking. There's three people in it. Me, my mom, and my dad. And we are gonna see how this. How this does. So we're gonna change the outfits in here. Let's see if it does. Oh, my gosh. It did a pretty good de. Good job. So it's got those. That little ring that goes around the neck for, like, the helmet thing. And didn't. It only gave that ring to my dad. It didn't give him the full outfit, but it changed the clothing for me and my mom, although it didn't change my suit jacket. Now what I. Part of the reason why I wanted to do this is that it is a. It's a. A difficult one because there's three people in it and it's got. We're holding. My mom and I are actually holding our awards in front of us. So I didn't think it'd be a. It would be. Be very accurate at all. But to be honest with you, it's done a pretty decent job. Add space helmets to the photo. Oh, wow. There's a. There's an option to animate it. That's kind of cool, actually. Add us putting on space helmets and we're going to animate that. Let's see how that goes. If that works, I will be pretty darn impressed. And there is. On the right side of this, it kind of shows what's happening. You got the normal chat window. Okay. So it's kind of. It has us kind of moving our heads around. It does not have us put. Putting on any space helmets. It also makes our faces look really kind of odd. It made my mom look younger, I can tell you that. So that. That part's interesting. But yeah, that's Llama. Check it out. Let me know what you all think. That's. It's something to play around with. Another. Another tech tool to play around with, which should be fun. But that's all I have for you this week. Have a wonderful week, everybody. Thanks for joining me. We will see you later. See ya.
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Tyson Mutrix
Our next Mastermind in New York City is sold out. But don't worry, there's still time to get your tickets to the Mastermind and Max Law Con in Nashville in October. Max Law Con is two days of immersive learning, powerful insights and meaningful connections, all designed to provide actionable strategies you'll take back to your firm and implement right away. Just real talk and tangible takeaways you can implement immediately. Go to maxlawevents.com for more details. Real quick before you head out. Have you checked out the Guild yet? If you've been listening to this podcast or hanging out in the Maximum Lawyer Facebook group, you've probably heard us mention it. But if you haven't taken the next step, let me tell you, you're missing the best part of this community. The Guild is where law firm owners like you go to level up. It's not just more content, it's a powerful mix of weekly live trainings, group coaching, accountability, and a tight knit community of people who actually get what you're building. You'll be able to tap into real conversations with people who are in the trenches with you, scaling their firms, testing ideas, solving problems and growing fast. If you're serious about building a firm that runs like a business and not just a job, this is where you want to be. Go to maxloguild.com and take that next step. We'll see you inside.