Maximum Lawyer Podcast:
More than Money: Building a Culture that Wins Loyalty and Talent
Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Tyson Mutrux
Featured Speaker: Kevin Chaney (Managing Partner, Kevin Galuzzi and Howard, Denver)
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the pivotal role of intentional culture design in growing a law firm. Kevin Chaney shares how culture—not just compensation or results—has been the key to his firm's ability to attract elite talent, keep their team loyal, and create an environment that clients notice as soon as they walk in. The session covers personal stories, actionable strategies, and real examples of how focusing on culture over everything else can be the breakthrough your practice needs.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Results Don’t Build Culture—Culture Builds Results
- Misconception: Many firm owners (including Chaney, earlier in his journey) believe that focusing on results will naturally create a good culture.
- Chaney’s Learnings:
"Over time I learned that...it was actually something else...Very few people have really sat down and thought about their firm culture, have really sat down and thought about what their culture is now, what they want their culture to be in maybe five years, and what intentional steps do they need to take to build the culture that they want."
— Kevin Chaney [02:06]
2. Why Culture is “King”
- Competitive Advantage: Most firms don’t invest time into intentional culture design, giving those who do a significant leg up in retention and recruitment.
- Generational Insight: Particularly with younger talent, money alone is not a differentiator.
- Real Story:
- Chaney retells how his firm recruited a top paralegal candidate away from a $70k/year U.S. attorney’s office job (despite only offering $50k), purely because of firm culture.
"When you ask her why she came, it was our culture...I looked at your social media, saw you guys having fun. I heard about your, your values and what you were fighting for."
— Kevin Chaney [05:19]
- Chaney retells how his firm recruited a top paralegal candidate away from a $70k/year U.S. attorney’s office job (despite only offering $50k), purely because of firm culture.
- Client Experience: Clients notice the "vibe" instantly—making culture a key part of service delivery.
3. The Three Pillars of Building Culture
A. Brutal Honesty About Today
- Leaders must honestly assess current firm culture, as it often mirrors the character and habits of the owners.
B. Vision for Five Years Out
- Use a five-year timeline to envision the ideal firm culture—giving enough space for meaningful change.
C. Designing the Steps to Get There
- Avoid copying another firm’s culture blindly. Culture should authentically reflect the owners and firm’s unique personality.
4. Four Cornerstones of Chaney’s Firm Culture and How They Built It
a. Friendship First
- Foundational Question for Hiring:
"Would I like to hang out with you outside of work? If the answer is no, you will not work at my firm."
— Kevin Chaney [12:10] - Tactics:
- Cover letter asks for favorite music genre.
- High referral bonus ($1,000) for internal employee recommendations.
- Guaranteed interviews for employee referrals.
- Frequent outside-of-work gatherings: happy hours, potlucks, sporting events, team-building trips (e.g., annual Red Rocks concert with significant others).
- Dedicated non-work WhatsApp for memes, invites, kid photos—purely optional, no work chatter.
b. Employee Ownership Mentality
- Profit-Sharing Bonus:
- 30% of firm profit is set aside for discretionary team bonuses (not tied to individual KPIs).
- Voting and polling for major decisions, like hiring or office upgrades.
- Staff representation on the leadership team, acting as a “union rep.”
"If we owned any business other than a law firm, I would take some of the equity, put it in a trust and have it for the benefit of past, former, and future employees."
— Kevin Chaney [16:18]
c. Risk-Taking and Rewarding Failure
- Why: The nature of personal injury law rewards calculated risk and grit.
- How:
- Preference for candidates eager for upside over guaranteed pay.
- KPIs focus on willingness to take cases to trial, not just settle.
- Celebrating failed ideas:
"We will often celebrate them at our next team building meeting and say, hey, this person came up with an idea. Turned out it was a horrible idea. Everything failed spectacularly. We were all here for it. But you know what? That's awesome."
— Kevin Chaney [19:45]
d. Political Engagement
- Transparency: Firm is openly political, primarily supporting causes favoring trial lawyers.
- Employee Involvement:
- Firm donations mean employees (via profit-share) help fund causes.
- Clear in interviews: It’s not a requirement to share the same politics, but employees must be comfortable with the firm’s donations and stances.
"Does that alienate some potential employees? Yes, it absolutely does...But I can tell you this, it attracts a ton of top talent because there's a lot of people out there who are really smart and money is not their number one goal."
— Kevin Chaney [21:31]
e. Fun at the Core
- Regular gatherings, jokes, birthday parties, and memes are institutionalized.
"Above all else, we want people to be excited to come to work every day."
— Kevin Chaney [22:20]
Memorable Quotes & Moments
-
On Self-Policing and Growth:
"You can have great KPIs, you can have great systems, but if people aren’t self-policing, you’re never going to have fundamental success."
— Kevin Chaney [07:36] -
On Culture as a Daily Practice:
"Your culture gets a little bit better or a little bit worse every single day."
— Kevin Chaney [08:58] -
Panera CEO Reference (Employee Motivation):
"Employees are not motivated to work harder to increase shareholder value by a penny a day...But people will do a lot for their friends."
— Kevin Chaney [10:24] -
On Recruitment Edge:
"Every single one of my employees could make more money guaranteed at another firm...We pay low salaries. We want people who are willing to take the risk, who say, look, pay me less guaranteed, but give me more upside, give me more bonuses."
— Kevin Chaney [18:30]
Timestamps for Major Segments
- Intro & Why Most Firms Ignore Culture: 01:00–04:10
- The Power of Culture in Recruitment (Paralegal Story): 05:10–07:20
- How Culture Shapes Retention, Clients & Accountability: 07:20–11:00
- The Three Steps To Building Culture: 11:00–12:00
- Kevin’s Firm Culture — Friendship: 12:00–15:00
- Employee Ownership Structure: 16:00–18:00
- Risk-Taking and Celebrating Failure: 18:00–20:00
- Political/Values Alignment: 20:00–21:40
- Building in Fun: 22:00–22:40
- Closing Takeaway (“Culture drives results”): 22:45–22:59
Actionable Takeaways
- Audit your current culture honestly before setting a vision.
- Design hiring, compensation, and daily practices around the culture you want—not a template from another business.
- Reinforce your culture with rituals, community, and the right candidates—not just pay.
- Celebrate both risk and failure as steps toward growth.
- Be transparent and authentic in values—even if it means losing out on some candidates; the right people will be drawn in.
For Leaders:
If you want loyalty, engagement, and a standout client experience, give culture the same intentionality you give to marketing and operations. As Kevin Chaney puts it:
"At the beginning, I said that I thought that results drove the culture. But to me, it’s actually the opposite. Culture drives the results."
— Kevin Chaney [22:45]