Maximum Lawyer Podcast

Host: Tyson Mutrux
Guest: Christine from Kolbe Corp
Episode: The Hidden System Behind How You Make Decisions and Take Action
Date: March 24, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores the concept of "conation"—the instinctive ways people take action and make decisions—through the lens of the Kolbe assessment, an influential tool for understanding natural problem-solving strengths. Tyson Mutrux interviews Christine, a Kolbe expert, about the three parts of the mind, the distinctions between Kolbe and other assessments, and how harnessing these insights can improve teamwork, hiring, parenting, and personal fulfillment. The conversation dives deep into the core Kolbe categories, shares practical applications, and addresses common myths and misunderstandings about human motivation and productivity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Understanding the Three Parts of the Mind (Conative, Cognitive, Affective)

• Kolbe versus Other Assessments
  • Cognitive: Measures knowledge (e.g., SAT, Wonderlic).
  • Affective: Measures personality/motivation (e.g., DISC, Myers-Briggs).
  • Conative (Kolbe's domain): Measures instinctive methods of problem-solving—how you take action naturally.

    “None of [the other assessments] look at the instinctive ways that you actually get things done… Kolbe is looking at what do you naturally do really well.” – Christine (02:36)

Kolbe Assessments in Practice

• Kolbe’s Systems for Team Optimization

  • Identify individual strengths and approaches to work.
  • Optimize collaboration and role alignment.
  • Support in hiring and expanding teams.
  • Example: Training provided for Tyson’s firm to help understand team strengths and manage conflict.

  “We broke it down, what the three parts of the mind were, and all of the different instinctive ways that people approach problem solving… How can you leverage your differences and manage conflict in a way that’s helpful?” – Christine (04:27)

• Reliability and Taking the Assessment

  • Kolbe has high reliability (over 90% consistency even decades apart).
  • Most accurate when taken during a stable life period (not during big transitions).

  “More than 90% of the time… the results don’t change outside of a small margin of error.” – Christine (06:42)

The Four Kolbe Action Modes

• Fact Finder (Red): Handling information (detail-oriented vs. summarizing).
• Follow Thru (Blue): Dealing with systems/structure (organized vs. adaptable).
• Quick Start (Green): Attitude toward risk/uncertainty (innovators vs. stabilizers).
• Implementer (Yellow): Using physical space/tools (hands-on builders vs. conceptual thinkers).

  “Each one of them looks at a different way that we approach problem solving or making decisions.” – Christine (19:48)

Extremes and Middle Zones

• Extremes of each category bring unique strengths and challenges; middle zones bridge both sides.
• Visual aids and color-coded charts help teams quickly interpret differences.

Application to Children and Youth

• Kolbe Y Index for kids (recommended from ~4th grade)—helps guide educational and parenting decisions.

  “We have an assessment called the Kolbe Y Index that is designed for about a fourth, fifth grade reading level up to senior in high school… With a parent guide to help navigate.” – Christine (17:44, 18:42)

• Parenting example: Understanding a child’s Kolbe score can transform approaches to discipline, motivation, and education.

  “If I had only known what his Kolbe result was when he was younger and been able to set things up for him in a different way, then he wouldn’t have had to go through that kind of experience.” – Christine (15:14)

Role Alignment, Team Design, & Hiring

• Fitting people’s Kolbe strengths to their roles is key for productivity and well-being.

• Kolbe C Index used to define ideal strengths for a particular job (EEOC compliant and tailored to each firm/company).

• Kolbe B Index measures the alignment between a person’s natural instincts and their current job duties (“writing with your non-dominant hand” as a metaphor).

  “Just because someone’s Kolbe B Index doesn’t match their job doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be there… but chronic misalignment causes burnout.” – Christine (61:14)

• Hiring & Interviewing:

  • Use scenario-based and behavioral questions to uncover true values and instincts, not just stated preferences.

  “What you would do is you would ask about a real scenario… ‘Tell me about a situation like that and how did you handle it?’” – Christine (48:16)

Debunking Myths & Addressing Misconceptions

• Kolbe is not a personality or IQ test.
• No “good” or “bad” Kolbe scores—each profile is a superpower in the right context.
• Scores are not hereditary and don’t correlate with intelligence or academic achievement.

  “Every single part of your Kolbe result is a superpower, a strength, something that is amazing about you, that you bring to every table you come to, if you care.” – Christine (52:22) “It is not genetic… we did studies with identical twins… less than 20% had similar or same MOs.” – Christine (64:29)

Kolbe in Relationships & Families

• “Takes Two” report analyzes how couples’ Kolbe profiles interact; not a matchmaking tool but provides guidance to avoid misunderstanding.

  “…it’s really helpful for couples to get that understanding. Your spouse is not doing that to drive you crazy… that’s how they get things done.” – Christine (36:50)

The Book: Do More More Naturally

• Written by David Kolbe and Amy Bruske, stresses the importance of doing more in a way that feels natural, sustainable, and fulfilling.
  • Counters burnout culture.
  • Encourages alignment of work with natural strengths instead of external prescriptions.

  “Everywhere you go… there are books and gurus who are telling you to get more done… and all that does is burn people out. It sounds exhausting.” – Christine (35:16) “The key is finding that sweet spot in the middle where you’re able to get more done of the things that matter to you, but do it in a way that is more natural for you.” – Christine (39:29)

Culture, Values, and Unity

• Organization culture depends on shared values—align values first, then hire for strengths.

  “When it comes to unity, the key is to be on the same page with your values.” – Christine (43:51)

• Use behavioral interviewing and reference checks to probe true values beyond surface-level statements.

  “You would check… what are your values? What matters to you? And, and how has that shown in actions that you’ve actually taken in the past, not what do you say you believe.” – Christine (47:15)

Data, Trends, and Unique Profiles

• Kolbe shares trends by job title/profession but insists there’s no single ideal type for any role; best fit depends on specific context and culture.

  “We just released a whole research document for our 50th anniversary that looks at trends by job title.” – Christine (57:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Kolbe difference:

“None of [the other assessments] look at the instinctive ways that you actually get things done… Kolbe is looking at what do you naturally do really well.”
— Christine (02:36)

On burnout and finding fulfillment:

“At Colbe, our specialty is helping people do things more naturally, how to set yourself up for success and do things in a way that fits you so that you are not stressed out…”
— Christine (38:15)

On aligning roles and strengths:

“Just because someone’s Kolbe B Index doesn’t match their job doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be there… but chronic misalignment causes burnout.”
— Christine (61:14)

On Kolbe scores in families and their origins:

“It is not genetic… we did studies with identical twins… less than 20% had similar or same MOs.”
— Christine (64:29)

On the impact of understanding children’s Kolbe scores:

“If I had only known what his Kolbe result was when he was younger and been able to set things up for him in a different way, then he wouldn’t have had to go through that kind of experience.”
— Christine (15:14)

On superpowers and differences:

“Every single part of your Kolbe result is a superpower, a strength, something that is amazing about you, that you bring to every table you come to, if you care.”
— Christine (52:22)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Kolbe vs. Other Assessments / Three Parts of the Mind – 01:46–04:00
• How Kolbe Training Changed Tyson’s Firm – 04:08–05:45
• Test Reliability and Transition Phases – 06:18–09:30
• Christine’s Recruitment Story and Personal Kolbe Experience – 09:30–13:21
• Kolbe and Parenting; Youth Assessments – 14:57–19:21
• Explaining the Four Kolbe Action Modes – 19:48–26:40
• How Kolbe Profiles Play Out Under Stress – 27:02–27:41
• Role Alignment, Adaptation, and Case Study (Bathroom Remodel) – 31:10–33:43
• About “Do More More Naturally” Book – 34:11–39:29
• Organizational & Law Firm Culture/Values – 43:39–46:34
• Kolbe C and B Indexes in Hiring and Role Fit – 58:29–64:09
• Research: Trends by Role & Notable Kolbe Scores – 54:04–58:07
• Family Businesses and Succession Planning – 63:27–64:09
• Nature of Kolbe Scores (Not Hereditary, Born With It) – 64:24–66:21
• Trauma, Change, and Kolbe Consistency – 67:02–68:55
• Misconceptions About Kolbe – 70:46–70:59
• How to Connect with Kolbe/Christine – 69:35–69:53
• Look Ahead: What’s Next for Kolbe – 70:02–70:40

Final Thoughts

This episode goes far beyond typical discussions of work styles, unpacking the Kolbe system as a nuanced, research-backed way to help people and teams reach their highest potential—not by changing who they are, but by honoring their natural approach to action and problem-solving. Tyson and Christine’s engaging, candid conversations offer examples from law, parenting, relationships, and personal growth, making Kolbe’s insights accessible and actionable for law firm owners and anyone seeking more joy, fulfillment, and impact in their work and life.