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This is Maximum Lawyer with your host, Tyson Mutrix. Good morning and welcome back to Maximum Lawyer Live. I have got interesting set of thoughts to run by everybody today. Hopefully you'll indulge me a little bit. There's a couple major threads that have. That will sort of widened its way through this episode where it's. It's kind of two things that have led to this conversation. The first is a post that I put in circle for the association last week. And it was a question that I asked, what would my childhood self think of me? And so I've really kind of been going down rabbit holes with that. And then at the same time, we are wrapping up a bathroom renovation. We're just putting fine details on things at this point. All the major stuff is done. And Amy and I, last night we were like, we just kind of stepped back and she goes, step over here, Come on, come on. Have you just stopped to look? And I was like, I, I don't know if I have. So, like, we just kind of step back and look. It looks amazing. It looks really good. And, and so like, I was like thinking like, hey, when was the last time. And this is more of a general question for everybody. When was the last time you, you built something with your hands and you stepped back and just thought, man, that feels good. That looks good. And the reason why I asked that question is, is obviously we're not carpenters, right? With what we do, we don't have a lot of those opportunities because of the nature of what we do. And I also think a lot of the work that we do is not super fulfilling. Okay. I just. And I think if you're a carpenter, it's probably the same thing. But like, all the crap that a carpenter has to go through to get to that finished project product sucks many times. We don't see the payoff is the difference, right? So we go through like, we had to fire somebody this week. I. It sucks. I'm fortunate Enough to have a team of people that can do that stuff. Now, I don't have to do that. Those are. But it doesn't mean it's, it doesn't still suck, you know, and so, And I'm sure that people that work with their hands, they do the same thing, right? They've got, you know, whether you build furniture or you're, you know, electrician, whatever it may be, they have the same issues. What a key benefit they have though, is at the end of the day, they can step back and look at that finished product and see it. And so it really got me thinking, okay, do people. And I started. I went down a rabbit hole with Chad gbt, asking a bunch of questions, you know, do, do, do blue collar workers have more job satisfaction than white collar workers? Are they happier? And generally those are. No, white. White collar workers are, are generally happier. They have higher job satisfaction. And I, and it was. I couldn't let it go. I just couldn't let it go. So I kept, I went down a little bit further and I wanted to know specifically people that are building things, is that, do they have greater job satisfaction? Are they happier in general? And that's where it gets a lot more nuanced. And there is some evidence, quite a bit of evidence. There is. And I'll go kind of go through these. I've made some notes on this because I think we can take some of this and apply it to our world to make our employees and our jobs a lot. And I use that term job for us. I meant more the job of our people, jobs of our people and our role in our firms happier. You know, we, we. I think we could have greater job satisfaction. I really do, because I found it really interesting. So, and again, all this is going on at the same time where, like, what would my childhood self think of me? Right? Cause I'm thinking, okay, because there's. There have been times throughout my career, because I really like working with my hands. I'm thinking, like, would I have been better off doing something different? Even though I love what I do, okay, so don't get me wrong, I love what I do. But it was a, it was an interesting question, like, what would my childhood self think of me? Because I, if, if I were to, to look back in, like, okay, project forward and see myself, I, I couldn't. I can tell you I would be ecstatic if I knew I'd gotten to where I, I am now, like, would be absolutely over the moon about it. Over the moon about it. And I have to remind myself of that because of. I mean, sometimes we all just go through these times where we're just like, that week sucked. You know, what a week. You know, that just happens sometimes. But this is. It's really kind of cool when you, when you change the perspective and you go, all right, let's go back to the Tyson that didn't really think he was going to ever be able to go to college. Let's think about that Tyson. And now you're looking forward, and you have, okay, a really highly successful personal injury career, very successful law firm, very successful other company, Maximum Lawyer. I mean, I think I would be shocked. I really do. And I think that makes me happy. It makes me happy that I. I have achieved what I have. But then let's go over now. We're. See, this is. I'm telling you, we're going to be kind of going back and forth, right? So then I was like, I love working with my hands, all that kind of stuff. We just, we're, we're, you know, wrapping up this bathroom renovation. And so the, it's interesting some of the studies that I found and some of the research that I found. And so let's kind of play around with this. There is the self determination theory by Edward Deasy and Richard Ryan. And so this is one. And we're gonna have to kind of play with this and kind of put together and modify it to see how does this work for law firms. So this theory identifies three universal psychological drivers of motivation and, well, being. Competence. So I'm good at something. Autonomy. I control how I do it, and relatedness. My work matters to other people. Okay. So if you're building a piece of furniture. So I love working with wood. So I'm gonna use this as an example. Okay. And by the way, a lot of it has to do with the actual tools. So if you're wondering how do you get good at woodworking? A lot of has to do with the tools you have. Okay, so just, I'll just kind of start with that. But so confidence. I, you know, can I build a chair? Am I good at building a chair? I've never built a chair, so I can't. I can't say if I am. So. But let's say that you're a woodworker and you're really good at it. Okay? You're competent at it. All right. Autonomy. I control how I do it. Do I have control over how I build this chair? Maybe I add a cup holder here, Maybe I put a headrest there. Let's you know what? This was going to be just a regular chair. We're going to make this thing a rocking chair. How much autonomy do I have? And then relatedness. My work matters to other people. Okay. So I'm building a chair that's going to be super comfortable, super functional, and people are going to love it. Okay, great. So how do we do that when it comes to, let's say a paralegal? Right. How do we do that when it comes to like a receptionist? So competence. I, I'm good at something. So we like, those are. Yeah, you're, you're good at your job, but what does it mean to be good at your job? And I, and those of you that don't have job scorecards, this is an area that you're missing out. How do they know they're doing a good job? Is it just because you're telling them? I don't think that that's good enough. I really don't. You just, you telling them that they're doing a good job, which you should be doing. If they're doing a good job, that's not good enough. They've got to be able to know it based on certain criteria. So you give them the job scorecard so they know that they're doing a good job. They're not if they're just guessing because they might be doing a great job but they're guessing about it. Or they may be doing a terrible job and think they're doing a good job because they worked at another place where the criteria was completely different. So give them some sort of criteria in their jobs. Autonomy. Okay. So this is something, I'll be really honest with you, I've struggled with. I, I have evolved substantially on my thoughts on this one where I was a very concrete guy. Like these are the rules. This is the way. And we do have a way of doing things. I have been more flexible in letting people get to the end point. Here's the start point. Here's the basic guidelines. And as long as you do these things, I've got certain things that you must do. However you get from A to Z, it was, as long as you follow our rules, stick to these guidelines, I'm fine with it. So we do give a greater level autonomy now than what I used to. That is one I've had to come around to and then related us my work matters to other people. This is where I think a lot of firms fail. And you, you, I, I don't think that a lot of you realize it a Lot of you think, oh, of course I'm doing a great job for my clients. This is. This matters to other people. Yes, it matters to them, I think. Where you fail. Where we all fail. Okay, this is not. This is not a you thing. This is not a me thing. This is an us thing. As a profession, we don't do a good enough job of telling our. Our clients how good of a job we're doing. And I'm not talking about bragging. I'm just talking about communicating to them what's happening on their case, how it's affecting their case, how it's benefiting them. Okay, We've got to do a better job of. Of explaining to our clients how we are improving their lives and how we are making. Whether it's a matter a case, whatever it is. We. We've got to. We've got to tell them, explain to them how this is making a difference in their lives. Just got to do that. Okay, so that's. That's one thing. So because in. In this one, skilled trades, they. They score higher on competence and visible relatedness. Those two, when it comes to autonomy, it's a little bit different. Autonomy, they. They do score a little bit lower. I. I thought. I thought that was kind of interesting. So. And I think with the benefit they have is other. That other people can touch the thing that they built. Right? That's where the relatedness is. Is. Is really kind of a. Not our favorite unless you're giving them a massive settlement check. Like, that's a little bit different, but for the most part, it's not super tangible. A lot of things we do, the. The. So the key point from this one, the happiness is less about the job category and more about whether those three needs are met. Ke. So. So focus on those three N. Those three needs. Okay, so this one, this is a recent study. This next one, it's from 2012. It's called the IKEA effect. Really? It's an interesting one. All right, so here's what this one showed, that people value things more when they build them themselves. All right? So you. When you hear the people calling, hey, you know, I'm thinking about handling this case of my own. I mean, people. They do value more things. I can, I mean, I can tell you just from the. The bathroom renovation, which we did everything. I mean, we did heated towel racks. We did heated floors. We. I mean, we have done. We did recessed cabinets. I mean, we. I mean, we. You know, we did all the fancy stuff, right? We. And it would have cost us a freaking fortune to do. Have paid someone to do it. And so I, I'm. I look at. I'm like, so happy we did it. It's extremely. I like working with my hands. Like I told you, I was able to work with Amy on this. We were working together as a team, and it was a lot of fun. And so I will tell you, I probably do value that more than what if someone else had done it? Just the reality of it. So the psychological principle behind this finding is effort, justification, and ownership. Okay, So I put a lot of effort in. It makes a whole lot of sense. That's part of the reason why fraternities and sororities are so powerful, because of that. It's the price of entry. So the price of entry, which. It's that, you know, that whatever you'll call it Hell Week. I can't remember what you all call it. I'll just call it Hell Week. I don't think that's what it's called, but I always think of as, as Hell Week. I mean, people. And you, You. You put people through as a rush or whatever it's called, and you'll put them through a bunch, a bunch of, you know, rigamarole. They get into the fraternity and the. Or the. Or the sorority, it's. It's the same thing. Like the effort. When you put in the effort, you're going to value something a lot more. Okay. All right, so when it comes to this one, if we're talking about extending this to tradespeople, if assembling a cheap bookshelf increases perceived value, imagine framing an entire home or building a custom piece of furniture. That. That visible output strengthens identity and meaning. Okay, so this is. And this came to. The reason why I pulled this one specifically is because I, I use the term fruits of the labor. Like I, I wanted to know if, because they were able to see the fruits of their labor, does it improve their satisfaction? And it seems that, that, that part's true. All right, so the next one's flow theory. And so a flow occurs when skill level matches challenge. All right? There is immediate feedback. The task requires full attention, and there is clear progress. This is an interesting one. So flow occurs when skill levels match. Skill level matches challenge. There is immediate feedback. The task requires full attention. There is clear progress. So skilled manual labor or work often meets these three, these criteria. There is physical feedback. Measurements, matter cuts must be precise. Progress is visible. Office environments, by contrast, are fragmented emails, slack meetings, notifications, constant context switching. So, and it says that flow State consistently correlates strongly with reported happiness. So. All right, so how can we help increase flow State. All right, so skill matches, challenge. Okay, so we have to make sure our people are trained up. So let's say you're drafting a demand. I'll. I'll try to make this. Or. Well, let's say an estate plan. Estate plan. All right, so you got to make sure that your people are trained up to. To meet that challenge. All right, I think that. I think we can probably all hit that one. Immediate feedback. So how do we. How do we do this? All right, so they're not building something and seeing it in real time. Happening there can draft things. I think many of you all use that are doing estate planning softwares. They'll build it. All right, so how can we help it where they get some sort of immediate feedback as they're building this thing. And I don't know if that's some sort of a scoring system where you put. I think it'd be kind of interesting as you build this thing you put into a scoring system or it's. It's. It's automatically. The software automatically grades it where, you know, you're at 98 on this one. You missed this thing and this thing. But I think maybe checklist can help with this too, where you're getting immediate feedback. Boom. Knock this off, knock this off, knock this off. That was with our office administrator, Kristen. When we used Talagy to. To hire her, we were. Because they do. They. They tested her skills that it was kind of like, you know, taking a Colby, but different. But one thing they told me is she likes tasks where she can check them off. She likes being able to have a task, check it out, check it off, have a task, check it off. So that's something where having that immediate feedback might be. Might be helpful. The task requires full attention. So this is one where I know that I'd say 95% or higher of firms are terrible at this. You gotta have office hours. You have to give them the opportunity. One stress. I was having this conversation just yesterday with one of our Mastermind members and how you've got to convey to your team how important the work is and having that time set aside for them to do that work and for you to do the work so they understand how important it is. So if you have things like office hours where you have this time dedicated to doing the work, they are going to feel like, at least at a minimum, feel like it needs their full attention because you have this dedicated time to do it. So whether that's time blocking, whatever it may be, office hours, all these different things you can use, but they need to know that the work that they're doing is important and it does require their full attention. And then there is clear progress. So I, it would be great if, if with whatever they're doing they had some sort of like, you know, like when you're filling out a survey you, and I'm sticking with the estate planning theme where as you're going through it, it, the little meter at the top shows you how much progress you've made on it. I think something like that would probably be fairly easy to add to whatever system you're using. And I think it would be pretty, pretty, pretty darn helpful when it comes to showing that clear progress and giving them some, some sort of aid in helping their satisfaction. So, so that, so that's all when it comes to that one. And then here's a survey from Gallup about happiness. What the data actually shows when it comes to shows that blue collar workers on average report lower overall job satisfaction. White collar professionals. So, and here are the nuances. So when they control for autonomy, income stability, respect and job security, that happiness gap narrows. So this is blue collar generals, a blue collar versus white collar in general. So if you can focus on autonomy, giving people that, that space to kind of do their, their thing, make sure that their income is stable, I think that that's important. Obviously respect and then job security. So knowing that they're, they're safe in their job and then giving, I mean giving them respect. I, it's. We, we interviewed someone yesterday, so she made it to the final interview and we, we asked the question of like what's one, what's something that attorneys do that annoy you? And she said, you know, it just whenever they just don't show you like just a basic level of respect, I'm thinking like, man, just the fact that she had to say that is kind of, kind of terrifies me as to what's going on at some other firms where like if that's a concern and that's the, like, that's the thing that annoys you about attorneys is like you've been treated so poorly so many times you have to say that that is, that does that, that kind of, that pisses me off actually is what it is, what it does. So at my firm we're all treated equally. It's just how we are. It's just I don't care what you, what your job is, who you are. We're all, we're all treated, we're all treated the same. So no one, no one's treated differently. We're all treated the same, we're all on the same level. Yeah. And I think by doing that you actually, you earn a lot more respect from people than if you had that authoritarian approach. I just my opinion, do your thing if you want to. If you want to drive fear to your people, go ahead. But it's just not the way I'm going to do things. So. All right, so, so I think that's all, all the studies I really want to cover with this. I guess the whole point is, is that, you know, just take some of the takeaways that I like, pick just one of those to, to focus on. I, I think one of the things I'm gonna focus on is the whole competence, autonomy, relatedness part of it. And I think you can do that. That's the self determination theory. Or if you wanna do like the flow theory. Flow theory. That's where the skill matches the challenge and immediate feedback and all that kind of stuff. I, I would say pick one of these and focus on that and see how it, how it might improve some of the satisfaction from your people. I think it's kind of an interesting thing whenever you're thinking about how, how to compare, like seeing the completed job compared to what we do. Like, my first thought whenever I was looking at this, okay, maybe we can do like more scoreboards and all that because we, we have our, we, we have our, you know, quote unquote scoreboard for our, our KPI for the, for the quarter or rock for the quarter. But I, I mean there, I'm sure there are other ways of, like you can create spreadsheets with scoreboards. You can, you can do a lot of different things, but just making it real for people, it's really, really important. But back to the other question. So the, the what would my childhood self think of me? I, I am interested to see what people have to say about that because I do understand that like, depending on where you are in your career at this point, some of you may look back and think, man, I'm on, I'm on the wrong track, I did the wrong thing, I chose the wrong career. I, I, maybe I, you know, I'm in personal injury right now or criminal defense right now, and that's not really who, who I wanted to be. I wanted to, you know, I wanted to, you know, be in business law or, you know, I wanted to deal with contracts or something like that, and if that's it, that. Okay, then. Then maybe this is time for you to pivot. So I do understand that there's going to be those of you that are going to hear this or watch this and have those thoughts that maybe, maybe you're not super proud of yourself. And I'm hoping, I'm hoping that's not the case. I'm hoping that you are. It's nothing like that. I'm hoping at worst that it's. You just need to make a pivot and you can do that. It's never too late for that. You can, you can still do that. I was talking to a chiropractor yesterday, and I think he would be a fabulous orthopedist. Fabulous orthopedist. Because he actually cares. He understands. He understands the medical more better than I'd say most orthos. He really does. And he, he's got kids that are same age as mine. And I was like, you know, like, I know the kids aren't, you know, close to being out of school, but once they are, maybe you should consider. Consider doing that. I don't know if he will, but, I mean, it really is never too late. It's never too late to go back and do something different. But those of you that are super proud of what you've done, congratulations, that's great. But keep pushing. Keep pushing. What I don't want you to do is get lazy and think, oh, I've accomplished all my goals at this point now because Tyson said so. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying be proud of where you are. Be proud of the things you've done. But keep going. Don't stop. Don't let up. I mean, I think growth, and growth doesn't mean making more money. Growth doesn't mean, you know, hiring more people. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm think I'm. I'm saying personal growth, okay? Keep growing as a human, as a person, Keep learning new things. I think you'll be better off for it. And I mean, there's lots of studies. Alzheimer's, if you need some actual data, some of you are data people. If you, there's, there's, there's many studies on Al. Alzheimer's and dementia. If you continue to keep learning, especially to learn new languages, that, that helps with things like that. So continue to grow as a person. Don't. Don't put the golden handcuffs on. Don't do that. Just keep moving on. So, all right, everybody, that's all I have this week have a wonderful week hopefully you enjoyed this one Let me know in the comments what you thought I have not asked for this in a while I know I'm doing this one live and the and in in the association so and check out the association go to maximum learner.com I would love to have you in there but if you don't mind leaving me leaving us a five star review it would really appreciate it it does help spread spread the love to other people and so check out the association check out the Becca's list BeccaSlist Co that's where you can check out vendors that could work for you may not work for you we do not charge anyone for it it is free this is a service we want to build a level of playing field so that legal vendors can't take advantage of us anymore that's the whole idea of it but have a week great week everybody we will be talking to you see everybody.