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- [00:01]
Miriam Arrington
Are you tired of the marketing guessing game? Does your website feel more like a digital billboard than a client magnet? If you're nodding along, you're not alone. And it's time to stop the uncertainty and start getting real results. Let's talk about your marketing spend. Are you just shelling out money every month and crossing your fingers? Do you ever wonder what impact your marketing is really having on your revenue? Well, it's time to take the guesswork out of the equation with Rise Up Media. We've been working with them for over a year and and the feedback from our fellow members has been fantastic. Rise Up Media is here to take your marketing to the next level. They'll even perform a full audit of your online presence, giving you the good, the bad, and even let you in on what your competition is up to that you're missing out on. And the best part, there's no obligation, no catch, no pressure. If you decide to work with them, their contracts are month to month.
- [00:57]
Tyson Mutrix
That's right.
- [00:58]
Miriam Arrington
No long term commitments tying you down. So what are you waiting for? To learn more about how Rise Up Media can transform your firms, visit riseup media.com max law and rise is spelled with a Z. Riseupmedia.com max law.
- [01:20]
Tyson Mutrix
This is Maximum Lawyer with your host Tyson Mutrix.
- [01:30]
So, Miriam, you practice immigration law, which is, I'm assuming, can be pretty emotionally intense, incredibly personal. Especially lately it's been kind of crazy. And I wonder what drew you to immigration because it can be with as crazy as what it seems from the outside looking in. I am curious what draws someone to the work?
- [01:55]
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think in different areas of law, there's a lot of times it's very common for lawyers to have personal connections. And that hasn't necessarily been the case for me in the different areas that I've practiced in, but for immigration it is. My grandparents came to the US as refugees from Germany. I grew up in a Jewish community in New Jersey and there was a lot of that generation had immigrated here under those circumstances. And so that was very much kind of a present topic in our family. Even though my grandparents didn't like to talk about their immigration experience, it was, you know, sort of the origin story of our family. And so from a young age I had an interest in, you know, what drives people to immigrate to the US what their stories are, that sort of thing that carried through. I became bilingual. I learned Spanish starting in probably about middle school. And then as I went through college and law school, I sort of at the same time pursued immigration law and criminal law. Those were the two areas that I was interested in. I didn't have any personal experience with criminal law the same way that I did with immigration, but I practiced both of them sort of hand in hand for about 15 years before really focusing the last couple years here just exclusively on immigration. And as you pointed out, it is a very tumultuous time for immigration at the, at this point. I've practiced under several different administrations. Lots of changes in the law and policy. And so a few years ago, I made the decision to really hone in my practice and focus exclusively on that.
- [03:30]
How difficult was that? Was it an easy choice or did it really take some time to come to that conclusion that you needed to niche down?
- [03:38]
I dragged my feet. Once I did it, it was so easy and so the right decision for the practice. I really loved practicing criminal defense. It was a big part of my ident. I worked as a public defender and worked for a great small law firm. And I did, you know, real cases, as we used to say, I mean, murders, you know, jury trials. I had a client on death row and for the first decade or so of my career I was really immersed in that and got some incredible experience, worked on some really interesting cases, constitutional issues. And it really was just a big part of who I thought I was. And so I really had a hard time imagining stepping out of that. And in 2016, I had my first child and also went through a divorce. So I started my own practice at that point because I was just kind of trying to get a handle on how I was going to continue practicing law in private practice as a single parent. And, you know, I continued doing criminal for a few years, but I really realized that long term it wasn't going to be sustainable to do that type of practice and scale it while also having the flexibility that I needed. Because criminal defense, one, it's even more all consuming than immigration. It's a lot of emergencies, it's a lot of nights and weekends. If you're in a jury trial, the judge could keep you until 3 o' clock in the morning. And so it took me a couple years to sort of accept that that was the right move. And then once we did it and I told my firm, this is gonna be our last criminal case, we kind of went out with a bang with a huge criminal case here in Virginia. And then it was just awesome. And our firm has really flourished. It really allowed us to really be consistent in our marketing, in our hiring, in our systems it just. It almost kind of was, like, made everything click.
- [05:34]
Yeah, I want to go back to 2016 because you kind of glossed over that really quick. That sounds like a really terrible year that you went through. How were you able to manage things? Because that sounds. I mean, you've got. You had one child at that time?
- [05:48]
Yes, my daughter was born in April, and I pretty much almost immediately got divorced, and I started. I think I signed the lease on my office in May.
- [05:59]
Wow. So in law firm, you're having to run from court to court, dealing with those emergencies, because as someone that's done criminal defense in the past, I've been there. It's. It's, you know, dealing with bail bondsmen at, you know, midnight and all that. It's lots of things going on. So how were you able to manage all that without losing your freaking mind?
- [06:17]
Not totally sure that I did. People ask me sometimes what I was thinking at that time. I was so sleep deprived. I don't really remember having a cohesive business plan. And I have some great stories for the future with my daughter of just places that I schlepped her as a baby. I mean, she's been with me in lockup. She came to court with me. I. I had a hearing once where I had to. The daycare was closed because it was snowing a little bit, but, like, not enough for court to be closed. And then I had to take her with me to court for a criminal docket. So, you know, just a little bit of that. And, yeah, I think so many lawyers, so many working parents, and especially law firm owners have had experiences like that, because it's just a reality, and it's really difficult in the moment. But I look back on those times, you know, fondly, because it was, you know, just kind of. It was a new beginning. It was the beginning of my role as a parent, and it was a new beginning in my life, and it was the birth of my law firm, too. So it was really, really challenging. And I think anybody who's been through that, you know, remembers how hard it was, but also maybe looks on it, you know, a little fondly.
- [07:31]
You're right. I mean, I look back at some of the tough times, too, and it just. You do kind of look back on. You're like, you know what? I'm glad I went through it. It sucked at the time, but it is not that anybody wants to go through a divorce. Right. But the fact that you got through it, it shows. You can do. You can do the hard things. You can go through the hard things and come out the other side better for it. So kudos to you for doing that. That's a tough one. So that's crazy.
- [07:57]
It shows you what you're made of. And my daughter, she just turned nine now, and she likes to tell people, you know, that we have a law firm and, you know, we have all these clients, and she's been to court. And I have other children now. I have a younger son and then an older stepson. And just the way that I started the business and the way that I've grown, it has really just kind of been hand in hand with the family, and it's been cool. It's cool to see them take an interest and almost feel kind of an ownership in the practice because it grew alongside them.
- [08:29]
That's really cool. I. I do like taking my kids to court every once in a while just so they have a. An idea what it's like, so they know what daddy does. Because otherwise it's kind of hard to explain. Like what? Like the law to kids, you know, like, here's what I do like, okay, well, why do you. I think they kind of. Sometimes they used to, like, wonder why I even existed, why there was even a need for a lawyer. But letting them kind of see the value, it was pretty cool. Do you think, turning back to immigration, are you finding that when things are like they are now politically, that it is good for a business, bad for business? Same. What are your thoughts on that?
- [09:06]
That's such a loaded question, because nobody wants to say that a time that could be challenging for clients is good for business. I think a reality with law is we're always helping people who have problems. And so that's what our role is, Whether you're defending people that are charged with crime, whether you're helping people who have been in a horrific accident. And so I think the reality of business is busy can exist without feeling icky about it. You know, we don't. I don't want people to have problems, but when they do, you know, I want to help them. So, yeah, there. There are, you know, kind of ups and downs of business related to what's going on, policy and the political environment. You know, I think that there's also one of the things that really exists now that more so than in the past was the ability to communicate with pot clients, you know, through social media, through video, things like that. And so getting real helpful information out versus some of the negative messaging that's out there now. So to be more specific, with immigration, you Know, there's these, there are crazy things happening. I mean, it's well documented. And by crazy, I mean things that are new actions that aren't consistent with federal law and policy. And so it's really been very news catching. And so there's been these, you know, arrests and of people with green cards and so on and so forth. And so when you have that in the media, it does scare people. It has a chilling effect. You know, we've had a lot of consultations with people who have good cases, but they're reticent to go forward because they're, you know, seeing news stories of people being arrested at their citizenship interviews and sent to detention. So really focusing on combating that with accurate information is something that we're really working on now. And the existence of social media and digital marketing and video and things like that just create a lot of avenues where it's easier to get solid information out. And so, you know, if we're able to do that and we're able to identify people that can be helped, then, you know, yeah, that translates to us being really busy.
- [11:13]
Yeah. And by the way, what I meant by good for business, more financial because yeah, I talk to clients too about like with personal injury, what is, what is good for business is bad for your health and what is bad for business is what is good for your health. And I tell them all the time, like, I'm hoping that it's bad for business because that way that means you're like, I'm usually having the conversation before they're going to go talk to an ortho about potentially needing a surgery. And you know, I'm talking about how, like I'm hoping you don't need a surgery. I don't want you to have to get that surgery because that means that you are healthier than what we think you might be. So. But the way you answer that was very, very good. I do want to touch on the, the positive marketing versus the negative marketing. It does seem as though immigration lawyers do approach marketing as like a, the negative side of things, lots of negativity, you know, and they really kind of pounce on that side of things. For anyone that wants to know, your Instagram handle is at lawyer like a mother, which I think is pretty cool because not just like a mom, but like a mother effort. You know, that's what makes me think, I was like, so it's like, oh, you go both ways with it. But how do you keep it where your marketing you are able to keep level headed and keep it more on the positive side as opposed to trying to leverage the negative side of things.
- [12:26]
You know, that is something that I feel really strongly about and something that's really important to our branding, something that we talk about internally, about our whole branding, not just our marketing, but also how we talk to clients, how we handle consultations. And I think it's really authentic to my personality as the law firm owner and then the other, other people that we attract. You know, I'm just not a sky is falling type of person. And both me and other, the other lawyers that work here because we have experience in criminal defense. I mean, you. I had a client executed. I've done murder cases, I've done jury trials in state and federal court. We've taken cases to the U.S. supreme Court. So we did really, really high stakes, high stress cases before transitioning completely into immigration. And I think we as lawyers developed a lot of skills and really a good mindset in that field that we try to translate to immigration, which is being realistic and also, but also being aggressive and not necessarily being overly conservative. You know, we, our mission statement is that we help clients build the life of their dreams through immigration to the U.S. and so, you know, people that come to us, they want to be here, they want to either come here, they want to stay here. So that is our goal. And we're looking at every case and every, all of our messaging is, you know, how can we help people achieve their goal?
- [13:52]
To.
- [13:53]
It's not necessarily for us to say things are really hard right now. You know, there's a 10% chance that you can get this visa. I mean, you know, sometimes case evaluation becomes important, but, you know, the clients come to us with their goal and our, our job is to try to meet that. And so we do really try to be reassuring, positive, optimistic, not delusional. We're not going to tell someone that they're eligible if they're not. But I don't feel like I'm in the business of talking people out of doing things that is, are important to them, that are important to their families. I think it, you know, it's respectful to listen to what the client wants and then just go all in. And that's really our approach. And so I think that does translate a little bit to a natural positivity. You know, we tell people like, if this is what you want to do, we think you have a case and so we have your back. And our goal is for you to get that green card or our goal is for you to get that citizenship it's not to scare people and to try to, you know, talk them out of that.
- [14:52]
You know, to me, that, that strikes me as, as though you have like a fighter's mindset where kind of like a, like a boxer might be like in the corner. And I think of it as like that 10% chance of winning case where you might be in the corner, you might be down, but you're going to kind of fight through it. Do you feel like you kind of have that personality?
- [15:09]
Oh, absolutely. And, you know, in criminal defense, like, what's your option? You know, there's no. And I think a lot of people that maybe just have a transactional or an administrative background and they come into immigration law, they, you know, maybe don't view it as a zero sum game. And so they may look at this visa application of, oh, it's not a guarantee or I'm not sure if we're going to get it. So, you know, we're not, I'm not going to pursue it. But kind of those, those, that mindset and the skills that you take, you know, if you have a client who's charged with murder and the best offer on the table is 40 years, you're probably going to trial, you know, unless it's a capital case. But Virginia abolished the death penalty a few years ago. So, you know, sometimes I think from, we really draw from criminal law, that fighter mindset, you know, go down, go down swinging. And that has been really effective with immigration because, you know, I'm proud to say that we've taken over cases from other law firms and won them and, you know, won them on appeal. We have many clients who have come to us for like a second, third, fourth opinion where other people had told them, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not safe. It's not a sure thing. Just, you know, stick with your green card. Don't really try for citizenship because you've got this little thing in your background and, you know, and then if we're able to take that and, and run with it. And so I think that, that, that kind of mindset, the trial work, the, you know, being aggressive, being an advocate, really translates well to immigration. A lot of people think of immigration laws like filling out forms, but it's really, we're fighting with the government a lot.
- [16:44]
Yeah, I, I know you attribute a lot of the, the fighter mindset to criminal defense, but I do wonder if there's more about your upbringing because, like, what happened in 2016, you had to fight through that But I wonder. I'm very curious to hear about, like, what your childhood was like. I know, and I told you before, I might go off on other things. This is like the other thing I might go off into. So I am curious, like, how has that shaped who you are? So can we talk about that a little bit?
- [17:09]
Sure. I mean, I had a nice childhood. I grew up in suburban New Jersey in a very, very close knit family, really big active in the Jewish community. Like I said, I mean, I didn't really have adversity, at least nothing super notable, but I did have really supportive parents. I was not shielded from things the way that I see people shielding kids from subjects now. And, you know, I mean, recently actually I took my children, so they're now they're six at the time, they were six, eight and 16 to Germany for. We were invited for a reconciliation event, but from the town that my grandfather was from. And they were the only kids there. There were descendants from all over the world and they were the only kids there. And a couple people made comments of like, you know, basically like, you brought your kids to this thing about Nazis. But, you know, growing up, I heard all about that, about that experience. My parents were very much the kind of parents who would have adult conversations in front of us, you know, whether it be politics or things in the news. And so I think that maybe was. I don't know if it was that unusual then, but we do that with our kids now and it kind of feels unusual compared to other, you know, contemporary families. So I don't know that that necessarily shaped me into a lawyer, but I do appreciate that.
- [18:29]
Yeah, I do think hearing more, you may not have gone through personally yourself a bunch of adversity, but when it comes to your childhood, 2016 definitely had some adversity. But it sounds like your family, you learned from your family as well. So I think that's interesting. I can kind of feel that fighter spirit, which I think is awesome. But let's talk a little bit about. Mom's a lawyer. I think it's a cool name. Tell us what that is.
- [19:00]
Yeah. So, well, as I, you know, my firm was born out of kind of necessity. I didn't go into practicing law thinking that I wanted to own my own firm one day. I really, you know, initially wanted to be a public defender, and I did that. And then I joined a small law firm and it was an eat what you kill situation, which is very common among small law firms. So I was like running hard, doing a lot of cases, working a lot and really loving it. And so spring of 2016, I went through a divorce, had my daughter, and I just realized that I couldn't keep up that pace. But I really wanted to continue doing that work. I wanted to continue being a lawyer. I never really considered getting a job, which, in retrospect, I don't know why I never thought of that. Like I said, I was really sleep deprived, but at the time, I was like, the only thing I could possibly do is start a law firm. So. So I rented a really small space in downtown Richmond with two other lawyers who came from the same firm that I had been with. And we. I think my. My. My monthly expense at that point was like $300 or something and was just kind of continued on, you know, largely operating. We were all kind of operating as solos. And then in 2017, I got married to my current husband. 2018, I had my youngest son, and the kids were in daycare, and I was kind of. I felt like I had a little bit of more breathing room to think strategically about how I was going to build the firm. So I started doing that. And in 2020, that was a big turning point. I had time to focus on building the firm in between freaking out about not being able to maintain the firm. I also kind of used some of that downtime, for lack of a better word, to. To be more strategic. And then the firm really started taking off from there, and that was really a turning point where I started really running it like a business, being strateg, having a vision. I started, you know, I did a mastermind. I really kind of got it together, and it. In just a few short years, it really came together where it was like a functioning law practice where I had a normal schedule and we were making some money. And something that was always really important to me was to have enough of a balance where I could be a really present parent. You know, I had young kids at the time, and one of my goals was by the time they started kindergarten, to be able to have my work hours be lined up with their school hours. That was like a big target that I set.
- [21:25]
So I love that goal. That's a cool. I've never heard that goal before. That's a great goal. I love it.
- [21:29]
Yeah. And, you know, I get them on the bus and I get them off the bus, and I work in between. I do that now, but. So other lawyers, like, started kind of asking me just around town or emailing me, hey, I heard, you know, your practice is doing pretty well. And I heard that you only Work, you know, X amount of hours a week. And I was having coffee with people and emailing them and answering questions and kind of sending people like, oh, this is the software that I use and this is what I did. And then it just kind of organically evolved into something a little bit more official. So I took all of those things, all of those materials that I'd been putting together for friends and people, and I put them into a book manuscript, which, you know, became Mom's a Lawyer. And then from there, the response to that was really surprising. I thought, you know, maybe some of my friends will buy this book, maybe my mom will leave me a review. But I was getting messages, LinkedIn messages and things like that from lawyers across the country. Not just moms, dads too, some people in Canada saying how helpful it was for them. So I started doing a little consulting on the side. And that just kind of was a passion project that developed really organically. And now I do both and I still manage the firm. I'm the sole owner of the firm. And it's just really kind of all came together. It's very natural for me to, to have both of these roles, to be a law firm owner and then be not just a mom, but a really active present mom.
- [22:53]
Yeah, I love that. It seems like there was a shift at some point you started to kind of make this more about a business and treat it like a business. What do you think the shift was that made the most impact on your firm?
- [23:07]
I mean, I want to say just getting serious about it, which sounds kind of ambiguous, but I know, you know, this is not a unique experience. When I started a law practice, I gave no thought into having a business plan. I mean, I just, as we all say, like, I'm going to hang a shingle. How hard can it be? I have a couple clients, I know what I'm doing. I'll get a cheap office. And when I started thinking about that goal that I had to, you know, to work during, only during school hours, it's kind of like, well, how is that going to work? I'm not going to be able to continue making the same income with, with half of the time. So I'm going to need to have more people working with me. So I really, I'm a big believer in self improvement. You know, I read all the books and listen to all the podcasts and I've done some coaching and done some masterminding and things like that. And so I just started absorbing everything and trying to piece together what the next steps for my, my business would be. I looked to other practice areas and other business, business types to learn. I think personal injury lawyers are the best advertisers. You know, by far they were the first. And so I looked at what personal injury lawyers do to convey their messaging, to get brand recognition and things like that and tried to model a little bit off of that. I looked at how other businesses structure their leadership boards and just being willing to think outside the box. I think that is a really another major ingredient. It's when you start at a small law firm and you kind of stay in that world, it's so easy to just keep replicating what you saw. You know, start your own office, but then run it exactly as the office that you left. And I think a lot of us fall into that trap. And I did that initially and I just kind of felt like I was on a hamster wheel. You know, every month we're starting from scratch, especially with criminal law. Cases are very short lived. So you need to be constantly getting new clients and then, you know, you basically see how much money you have at the end of the month. And that's how most small firms are run. And I just wanted something more sustaining where I could bring other people on board and everything wasn't on my shoulders because it's too much to have everything on one person.
- [25:15]
Yeah. I want to go back to the. Your. What I would say is probably how you were defining success and that was being able to have your hours shaped around your kid's school and all that. I think that that's really cool. That is a different way of thinking about success than the vast majority of people. And I think it's so awesome the way you're doing it. What is your advice to people, other people about defining their success? Because a lot of times people defining on they're defining amounts of amounts of money, typically revenue or profit, things like that. So do you have advice for people on figuring out what. What success looks like, looks like to them?
- [25:53]
Yeah, and just as a caveat, I, I like making money as well. And I think being Prof. A profitable business is important. I don't like when people use the term lifestyle business. People tend to only use that for women owned businesses. But it's, you know, I don't think any business should be run as a hobby. And one of my hesitations with talking about work life balance, although I think it's very important. I think when a lot of people hear that phrase, they think of somebody who's not ambitious and who's not Business minded. My real goal was to not sacrifice one for the other. And so to kind of get back to your question. I think that just, you know, like we were saying a few minutes ago, thinking outside the box, people can define what that means for them. A lot of the people that contact me for consulting or private coaching, they're looking at both pieces like they're, they feel like they're on that hamster wheel. They want to have more time with their kids, they want to stop working weekends. I have a long term, longtime client who, you know, her, her goal that she, you know, said from the get go was she didn't want to work weekends anymore. So I usually use that as a starting point and suggest to people, you know, what would your, what would your perfect schedule be? What do you want your week to look like? What's a typical week look like for you or a typical day look like for you? And then use that as the template and kind of work back into that.
- [27:15]
Yeah, I like that way of looking at things. You know, designing your week is, is such a good thing. And sometimes you have to design, you have to redesign it. You can't. Sometimes you kind of get, you design it and things change and you have to redesign it, redesign it, redesign it. And I guess getting through to people that you get to pick how your week is, right? You get to decide on, you know, you know, when you do this, when you do that. I don't know if you've ever heard of Whoop, I've got this Whoop band. Jeremy Danielson had recommended it to me and I. It's great. One of the questions that. There's a checklist that you kind of fill out every single day. And it says, one of the questions, One of the questions is like, do you feel like you've had control over your life or did you feel like you had control over your life yesterday? And it's such a great question because it's like a check in to be like, how much control do I have over my life? And if there were a couple times where I said, like, no. So it was like this red flag pop up, okay, I need to look at my calendar and adjust things. So how often do you encounter people that, that feel like they've sort of lost control of their life and what is, what are some easy things they can do, they can tweak in their life to get more control?
- [28:25]
So you raised a point that actually is so important, which is that your, your goals can change. It's not. I think lawyers were planners we're type A and it's easy to get into this like absolutist mindset. Like I need to have everything be perfect. And I understand that because that, that is my tendency. If I look at what my ideal schedule was like when my kids were in daycare versus when they were in kindergarten, whether versus now that they're older in elementary school, it changes. And even though my goal seems very clear cut, there's been an evolution. When they were in daycare, I had a longer work day. When they were in kindergarten, I had a shorter workday and I really couldn't work when they were around. I mean, I know some people can do work when their kids are around. Maybe my kids are extra needy, I don't know. I've never been able to do that. Now that they're getting a little older and they're a little bit more self sufficient, I can pick them up and then, you know, do an hour of work while they're at rock climbing and I'm sitting in the, you know, lobby with all the other parents and their laptops. And so, you know, things can change. So I think it's done is better than perfect. I think is the phrase, you know, we don't, you don't have to have the perfect plan, the perfect schedule that's going to take you for the next 20 years. It's just what do you need right now? And then that can be revisited and that can be tweaked. And if you think about it that way, it takes the pressure off a little bit. You know, setting those goals.
- [29:46]
That's great, that's, those are great tips. I want to shift gears back to the law firm owner hat. And what do you think as a law firm owner has been the most challenging or most surprising thing that you've experienced?
- [30:00]
I think that being an employer is probably the hardest thing. Hiring, firing, training, onboarding, giving feedback for my personality. It's funny because I can be so assertive and so aggressive in a lot of settings. But if it's somebody that like, I really like and they've worked for me for a couple years, but they're really not hacking it, that conversation is more challenging for me than, you know, fighting with some other lawyer in court or, you know, getting real with a client or what have you. And so I had no experience as an employer before I just started hiring people for the law firm. And so I learned a lot of lessons, lessons through that. I think that over the years I've gotten a lot better. I've also had People join the firm, and I work with vendors that help with some of those things that maybe aren't my strong suits. But being an employer and taking responsibility for other people's careers is something that was a challenge for me as an owner.
- [30:58]
I have my opinions on this, but I'm curious what yours are, which is harder, parenting or managing people in your firm.
- [31:06]
Well, actually, there's so many similarities. It's kind of. I've used that like those analogies before. You know, I guess parenting has to be. I'd have to pick parenting because the stakes are higher. You know, I'm probably. Even if I fire someone, I'm not going to ruin their life. They're just. They might hate me forever, but it's not going to ruin their life. I guess your kids, you can legitimately screw up if you do a bad enough job. But there are a lot of similarities in terms of, you know, you know, acting with kindness and compassion, but also taking responsibility for the necessary results. You know, you have to be. When you're the boss, you have to be the, you know, proverbial grown up in the room in every situation. And it's, you know, I think relationships are really important. My parenting style is. I don't know. I mean, I'm. I'm an elder millennial, so, you know, I'm not like the old school, you know, super, super strict parent, but I'm not quite the, you know, hippie, you know, super gentle parenting. I'm somewhere in the middle. But I do think that relationships are important, both in your personal life and in your professional life. And so there's a lot of crossover.
- [32:12]
Unlike you, I have never heard it called an elder millennial, but that's apparently what I am as well. I. I was so devastated. There's no offense to millennials. I'm sorry. I was just so devastated. Here. I was a millennial. I was. I thought. I did not think I was a millennial. There's the millennials have caught a bad rap over the, over the last decade or so. I have a lot of faith in millennials, but it was. I was at the time, very devastated. But hearing Elder Millennial, it makes me feel a little better, I guess, about it. Again, I love all you millennials. I tease you because I love you, but. Yeah, but. Okay, so a lot of people say.
- [32:48]
Millennial now, but they really mean Gen Z. It's like older people are saying, like, these crazy millennials. It's like, no, we're in our 40s, you know.
- [32:55]
Yes, I, I agree with that, too. I. I agree. Yeah. It's more of the. The Gen Z's for sure. If you were kind of gonna give advice to another lawyer that's listening right now, that's like they're. They're thinking about, okay, I'm. I think I want to start a firm. You know, I don't know if they're kind of on the fence. What's your advice to them?
- [33:15]
One, to go for it. Starting my own firm has been the single best professional decision that I've made. It changed my life. It changed my career. It changed my personal life. It completely changed my financial station. I have no regrets about doing that. And I think that there's so much room in private practice for, you know, good law firm owners to kind of carve out their niche. If there's something that I wish I had done differently, to have more of a plan, to, you know, have a little less hubris, and to realize maybe before taking that leap that I didn't know anything about running a business. There are so many resources out there now, much more than there were a decade ago. You know, like, read some books, listen to these podcasts, maybe join a group. And it doesn't have to be. You don't have to delay that dream for months or years, necessarily, but just get a little bit of information and come up with a little bit of a plan is the one thing that I would have done differently. I think it just. You can do it a lot more smoothly than I did it.
- [34:15]
Where do you think that hubris came from?
- [34:17]
Oh, I'm a lawyer. I was a trial lawyer. You know, someone told me once, someone who worked in the court system who is a psychologist told me that, and he loved lawyers. He loved working with lawyers. But he said trial lawyers have to have unbelievable egos because how else can you go do what we do, you know? And so I think that's. That's where it comes from.
- [34:42]
Yeah, you have to have, like. I can't tell you how many times I've had a case where, you know, 99 out of 100 lawyers would have told you I was crazy for trying the case. I've convinced myself I was going to win, and I've got. Because I've got to look at that jury, and I got. I got to say it with conviction and mean it. And so by that point, I have convinced myself I'm going to win. And you're absolutely right. That probably is where it comes from.
- [35:09]
Yeah. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to do it. I took a case to a jury where there was a video of my client committing the crime, but there was no good deals on the table. So I'm like, what the hell? I've already put this on my calendar. And I felt. So I was so into the trial that while they were deliberating, I actually convinced myself that we had a chance. And then they came back 10 minutes later with a conviction. But, you know, I was able to get myself into that mindset where I'm like, I think we really. I think we crush this.
- [35:38]
Yeah. But kudos to you for taking this shot. You know what I mean? Because it wasn't going to hurt the worst. Yeah, it wasn't hurt at all. So I think a lot of people would have forced that, that plea in that situation. But kudos to you for actually doing it. That's. That's awesome. Okay, so I do. We're going to wrap things up. A couple of questions left. I. I do. I am curious to see, like, where do you see Arrington Law? Like, what is like, big picture? Like, where is this thing headed for you?
- [36:01]
I'd like us to be the regional leader in central Virginia, the go to immigration law firm. We've really leaned into our role in the community with immigration law. You can practice anywhere in the country. It's federal administrative law. A lot of growing immigration law firms cast a net across the country and many are very successful doing that. And that just didn't feel authentic to me. I, you know, I'm a member of this community. My kids go to the schools. I'm involved in a lot of organizations. And I thought, you know, we're just going to be the Central Virginia lawyers, the Richmond area lawyers. And so we've really committed to that. And to that end, I think that there's a lot of room for us to grow regionally, but that's very much our focus. And really to stay true to our mission, to not get distracted. It's very easy in times like now where you can kind of panic and say, well, maybe we'll diversify or maybe we'll do this. We're not going to do that. We're going to maintain our mission to help our clients achieve the life of their dreams through immigration. We're going to remain community based and also keep our law firm culture, which is very family friendly, very team member friendly, and just continue to grow along those lines and stay true to that.
- [37:16]
Yeah. And I think your firm name is consistent with that, with the arrington, Los Albigaz RVA, which RVA then I'm assuming is Richmond, Virginia. So it's like that. It's like a. I'm assuming RVA is something you all use, kind of like STL in St. Louis. So I think that that's brilliant because, like, they know you're. You're a local, you're a local firm. Like, that's, that's great. I love that.
- [37:38]
That was intentional.
- [37:39]
Fantastic. That's a way, it's a great way of differentiating from, you know, outside firms coming in, trying to swoop in and get your cases. So that's great. Awesome. All right, well, last question I have for you. It's an easy one. If people are interested in talking to you, reaching out to you, and they either want to ask you questions or if they want to connect with you about, mom's a lawyer. How do they do that?
- [38:03]
Sure. So I'm on all the social media channels in my personal capacity. It's Oyerlikeamother. And our firm socials are Arrington Law and Las Avogados, rva. And you know any of those channels, I'd love to talk. I love to hear from people. I love to meet other lawyers. I love this profession. I'm proud to be a lawyer. I like other lawyers. Super, super positive about it.
- [38:26]
Same here. I'm always sad whenever I hear people complaining about the profession. So it's good to see another person that's very optimistic about the profession and that loves it. But more importantly, thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. I love learning some things from you. So thank you for sharing all your knowledge. Appreciate it.
- [38:45]
Yeah. Thanks for having me.
- [38:46]
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