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- [00:01]
A
Are you tired of the marketing guessing game? Does your website feel more like a digital billboard than a client magnet? If you're nodding along, you're not alone. And it's time to stop the uncertainty and start getting real results. Let's talk about your marketing spend. Are you just shelling out money every month and crossing your fingers? Do you ever wonder what impact your marketing is really having on your revenue? Well, it's time to take the guesswork out of the equation with Rise Up Media. We've been working with them for over a year and, and the feedback from our fellow members has been fantastic. Rise Up Media is here to take your marketing to the next level. They'll even perform a full audit of your online presence, giving you the good, the bad, and even let you in on what your competition is up to that you're missing out on. And the best part, there's no obligation, no catch, no pressure. If you decide to work with them, their contracts are month to month. That's right. No long term commitments tying you down. So what are you waiting for? To learn more about how Rise Up Media can transform your firms, visit riseup media.com max law and rise is spelled with a Z. Riseupmedia.com max law.
- [01:20]
B
This is Maximum Lawyer with your host, Tyson Mutrix. So Becca and I made some big changes. We've made some pretty tough calls and we're going to talk about it. So what's up, Becca? How you doing?
- [01:37]
C
Good. How are you?
- [01:38]
B
All right. A little, little apprehensive about how this is going to go when it comes to the recording of it. You and I were talking about how this is. Yeah. Like, we may have to edit this a little bit to make sure that we get everything right. But yeah, it's one of those things where, like, I'm super excited about the change. Changes. But it's a little, it's a little nervous. I'm a little nervous about it too.
- [01:58]
C
Yeah, I'm mostly excited. I'm excited to share everything that we changed as of January 1st and just share it with everybody.
- [02:04]
B
Yeah, well, I texted you the other day and it was funny. We were talking about how I, I can be a little sarcastic and you weren't, you weren't sure about the text message I sent you today. If it was sarcastic and I was completely genuine.
- [02:15]
C
Yeah.
- [02:16]
B
The text I sent you about how excited I was about Circle.
- [02:20]
C
Yeah.
- [02:20]
B
Did you, did you think that was sarcasm or that was legit?
- [02:24]
C
That one had context, so I felt like I believed that you were excited about that, but I was happy because I didn't know, you know, how you would exactly feel about it. And since you were actually excited, that was like next level.
- [02:36]
B
So, yeah, for the people who don't know, I actually don't get super excited about things. I just, I don't. But this one, like, I am like. So let's just kind of jump into it. So we, we've had the guild, so let's kind of go. Let's talk a little bit about the guild because we started it in 2020 and you were, you were not quite with us right at the time.
- [02:53]
C
I was. When we decided to actually go live, I was part time, like part time virtual assistant. And then it was around the time that we were launching when you had asked me to go full time, so that everything kind of lined up right there.
- [03:08]
B
So were you with us with the beta group?
- [03:10]
C
No, I was not.
- [03:11]
B
Okay, so beta group. So whenever I think about the guild, I think about the beta group and I don't know if we even called it the Guild at the time.
- [03:17]
C
No, I, I mean, when I came in, you're like, well, we have this, we have this beta group.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah. So. So the guild. So the actual launch of the guild was after then. So, yeah, that we had this beta group was at 4. I think we, you and I were talking about this. I think we. It was the, the conclusion we came was it was 14 people that we started with.
- [03:33]
C
I think so. Yeah.
- [03:34]
B
Yeah. And then, so we, we created this group of people or we had this group of people where we did hot seats every single week. And it was really interesting. 14 weeks because I think we did one a week. Really interesting. And then we decided at the time, you know, 2020 was when we launched.
- [03:49]
C
The Guild March of 2020, right before everything kind of hit the fan.
- [03:53]
B
Yeah. And that was scary. That was one of those things we like, is anyone going to want to do this? And I feel like every time we've done something with Maximum Lawyer, I'm always like, is, are people going to want to do this? Is this something people are going to want? And because we usually will do, we usually do follow what people want and we don't. It's not like we make these massive changes because it's something people. It's like, oh, we're doing this because we want it. It's usually because it's something people want.
- [04:19]
C
Yes.
- [04:19]
B
And so, yeah, that was something that people wanted at the time. And I think needs have changed over the last five years, six years, I.
- [04:28]
C
Guess so much have changed. People's needs have changed. I mean the online space has changed. Like contributing and participating in things in person or online have changed. Pretty much everything has.
- [04:41]
B
Yeah. So can we talk about the title? Can we talk the name? Because I think people are going to want to know about the name.
- [04:46]
C
Yes.
- [04:47]
B
So we're changing the, The Guild is no Moss, it's no more. We have closed down the Facebook group for the Guild.
- [04:54]
D
Right.
- [04:54]
B
The big group is still there. So that's gonna, that's gonna remain there will be. We'll still be active somewhat in that we'll be mostly active in the new group which I'll let you name it. I'll let. Let you tell people what the name is.
- [05:08]
C
So the Guild is now the association by Maximum Lawyer. That's what we're going with.
- [05:12]
B
Yeah. I love it. I think it's great. It better reflects what we're wanting to do with Maximum Lawyer. It's a, this is a. I was trying to. Jeremy Danielson just I think two days ago and I just don't know it's going to. It's better reflects what our, our long term mission is. We have a very, I'd say we have a very audacious goal for what the. What Maximum Lawyer is going to be and I think it better reflects that.
- [05:39]
C
I completely agree.
- [05:40]
B
Will you talk to before we get like the changes what like we tell people like what's staying the same?
- [05:45]
C
Yeah, absolutely. So we had a few things from the Guild that we didn't want to change at all. And that's the. That our weekly events are staying now. They are changing what they are. But we're still having a weekly live event. We're still keeping that community access online. But like you said, we're going from our Facebook group to. Our platform is hosted on Circle now, which is just a different platform, more similar to like Kajabi and other things like that.
- [06:14]
B
So much better though.
- [06:16]
C
So, so much better. Yeah. I spent a lot of time looking into like different softwares and platforms and Circle one out by a landslide. So whenever I'm in there I am also just very excited. I'm like the headspace that you're in when you're in Circle is just business. It's just maximum layer, which is a completely different experience than when you have to log into your Facebook, see all your friends, all your groups, all your pages, all the sponsored ads, all the Facebook marketplace things for sale and then you're trying to be in what was the Guild. It's just a completely different experience. And then you still get exclusive member discounts to all Maximum Lawyer in person events. And then I think that the best no change that we have also is that there's absolutely no price change. So we've added a bunch of different things in. We want to offer bigger value but without the bigger price tag.
- [07:14]
B
Yep, that, that's to me like. So I guess we can kind of get to some of the changes. Like. Like one of the most exciting things we're doing because we're keeping the conference, if anyone is worried about that, the conference is staying. We're still doing masterminds, we're still having workshops, we're still doing that stuff's not changing but we're adding coaches. So we have new coaches every single quarter, which is super exciting. I think it's just absolutely, I think that part. And that was an idea you brought in that was, I'd say the majority of these changes. You brought it some really great changes and that part is super exciting to me.
- [07:49]
C
Okay, so I think we should add two. So I'm in a mastermind for me running Maximum Lawyer right now, which is transparently where a lot of these ideas come in. But I think that should speak to like what being in a membership or a group or a mastermind can do for you. Because truthfully I think that if I hadn't been in this membership for most of 2025, that I wouldn't have seen behind the scenes into a lot of different businesses that are other people are running, which is where I'm getting a lot of these different ideas on. You know, I hear something or I see something and I'm like, oh, that's not for our people. And then I see something else and I'm like, they need this and we're going to give it to them. Yeah, with the coaches too. You had already said that they're going to change quarterly. And so our coaches are niche specific. So when we bring a coach in, it's because they have their one thing that they're great at and that they're going to be. If you're in the association, they're going to be your personal coach coach essentially. And so in Q1 right now. So if you join the association right now, our coaches are Max and Martin from Swans. So they're going to help you with anything related to AI and automations that you could possibly want. We have Jeff Hampton who is the YouTube expert. So if you are interested in growing your YouTube channel in 2026 for your law firm, he's your guy. And then we Also have Molly Kramer, who is the billing coach. So three very different topics, very different coaches, depending on what you're working on in your firm. And then the goal is throughout the year, four times we're going to switch up those coaches and give people a different area of their firm where they can have an expert, access to an expert that they can ask for, you know, questions, things like that that they're working on. It's cool because within a couple of days, you can get a response from a coach. You don't have to pay them any extra, you don't have to hire them. You. No contract, no nothing. It's just you're in. And you have access to them.
- [09:54]
B
Yeah. And I also. I think something people might wonder is like, oh, well, you know, is this just one of those situations where it's like a vendor relationship where you're getting paid to bring. No, we made it very clear that's not what we're doing. Not at all.
- [10:06]
C
And. And we can be super transparent. So we actually pay our coaches to be in the association because we want the intent to be what our intent is. And that genuinely is to teach you so that you can actually take action in your firm. So they are really there to be your coaches. And I think the only thing to clarify is that they're there to teach you and give you the information. Obviously, all of these coaches run their own businesses and they probably have products or services or done for you, services at the point where you want to work with them. They feel free to make that connection, but they are there to teach you first. And then if it's something you're interested in, that's. That can be on you to. To make that connection, because that's also a possibility.
- [10:49]
B
The transparency thing, too. What I love about you is that you're always like, we need to be absolutely transparent. We need to be. There's no faking this. Like, because. Because we've had this conversation before. There's like, there's. The. People do, like, YouTube videos where they've clearly just ripped off what someone else has done, and that drives you crazy. And I agree with you. I think. And so, like, the. The whole thing about being transparent about this, I think it's. I think that that's beautiful. I think that's. I'm glad that we're doing this. This episode, too, just to kind of talk about. So we're fully transparent about what we're wanting to do here, because, like, the whole idea with the association is like, one, we want to make sure we are providing way more value than what we're charging. Like, that is. That is our number. It's always been our number one concern. And I'll be. I mean, more transparency. There's been some times where I felt like we weren't meeting that, and it really drove both of us crazy. Where we weren't. We wanted to make sure that we were adding. I mean, I'm talking. I'm not talking about you're getting what you paid for. I'm talking about we want to offer way more than what you're paying for. That's what we want. That's what we want to deliver. It's not always easy to do that. And so that's. We've struggled with trying to figure that out. I think that we. I think we figured it out. I think we figured out a really good way of delivering on that. But it fits into. I. I think there's a lot of. There's a lot of groups, a lot of lawyer groups, and I think a lot of you and I have taken a way different approach than many, I think, where, like, I don't view any of those as competitors.
- [12:18]
C
Right.
- [12:18]
B
We can. The way the association is positioning itself is so that we all coexist, we all work with each other, we can all build each other up. There is zero desire for. For us to outcompete others, because I just don't view it that way. We want this to be sort of this umbrella where we under this big tent together and we're all growing together. And that's the whole idea. At least that's what our mission is. Our mission is that people are being helped out when it comes to running their law firms. Legal entrepreneurs, the term that you like to use, I struggle trying to adopt that term, but it is the right term, though, is helping legal entrepreneurs. That's what we want to do. And part of doing that is working together with all these other groups. I mean, that's the whole idea of the whole thing.
- [13:02]
C
No, I completely agree. That's exactly what I want. If it's something else that's also going to help someone better their firm, make it work better for their lives, make it more profitable, make it less stressful, any of those things. That's why we're here. And then if there's other resources that can help them as well, then obviously we want them to use those, too.
- [13:20]
B
Yeah. Can we talk a little bit? I think. I don't know if we went enough about why we're growing with Circle. So to me, the biggest Benefit is because we, we, like you said, we looked at a lot of different platforms. Facebook, you can't one, I. It's always driven me nuts. You even found me options. So I actually can't see my feed whenever I get onto Facebook because I get.
- [13:40]
C
I turned my feet off as well.
- [13:42]
B
Because I get so distracted going in there. Like that was one option. But like the. Or to me it's the organization of things like finding things and that which leads me to Kajabi. So we have Kajabi, which we've used for years and it's way overpriced for what it delivers on when it comes to organization. I've sat in Masterminds where people had said, hey, I heard there's a training on X. Can you. Not the platform, but like just, you know, X. You know, X versus Y topic.
- [14:08]
C
Yes, exactly.
- [14:09]
B
Yeah. So I would go and I would, I would sit in the mastermind right in front of them like, oh, I'll find it for you. I would certain I couldn't find the damn thing.
- [14:16]
C
Right.
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B
It would drive me crazy. That's not a problem with Circle. Circle, it's all organized very neatly and you can find things very, very easily. And that's the whole point of it. And that's why I love about circle and that's why we went with a platform like circle. So you can, you can organize things a lot easier and find things and you can commit, you can communicate, you can chat with people, you can do a lot of different things. But it's the organization. To me, that's my, that's my favorite part about all of it.
- [14:42]
C
It is. So I evaluated. Kajabi also has a community feature that doesn't even come close to Circles. I actually wanted Kajabi's to be better. When I went into the research aspect of this, I wanted it to be better because it would have just been an add on to our plan. Right. And then everything would have been in Kajabi because right now the resources are in Kajabi. And so that would have been easier, but the results were that it wasn't a better community. In fact, Kajabi, it was a single feed, just like Facebook is. So you have one single feed, people are posting. Let's just say you remember someone said something last week and you want to contribute to that now. And it's a week later. You can search some keywords. It might work, it might not. Or you scroll and you scroll and you scroll and you try to find that the difference is in circle we have spaces or rooms is what they call them. So we've separated out our rooms into different topics. Let me actually pull them up so I can. So we have people and processes, intake and conversion, billing, AI and automations, social media, finance and tax, SEO and ads, health and mindset. So the nice thing is, is that you can pick the topic that you're working on and you can go in there. So to post and ask questions. You can go in there to read what other people are working on and what they've been saying. And then during different quarters, three of those rooms will have a coach inside the room. So you can go into there. And then. One thing I do just want to say, too, about switching from Facebook into Circle is that we can say and teach and do whatever we want in there without Facebook moderating us. Here's one thing. I've wanted to say this for so long because Since March of 2020, we have gotten multiple dings in our Facebook group saying that. Warnings saying that if this is set again by us or a member. So we can't even control if it's set in there, which is part of the reason that we turned on post approval in the big group. So on Facebook. So this is very common in entrepreneurship in general. This is a very popular book. You and Jim have talked about about this on the podcast so many times, and that is Burn the boats. If you say or write the words burn the boats on Facebook, they want to close down your Facebook group, and that is just too risky. So while we're talking about it in relation to building a business, Facebook sees it another way. And so now on Circle, there's no competing agendas and people can just speak and work on their businesses.
- [17:20]
B
Yeah. And it's because we, I, I don't think. To my knowledge, we've never been dinged for anything legitimate. It's never been. It's been something in that context. We're like, what the hell? There's no appeal process, no nothing. It's just, you've been dinged now. Don't do it again.
- [17:35]
C
Yeah.
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B
And it's such a weird. It's such a really weird thing. And as someone that's been in Facebook jail for my, my Bourbon group, I. It's. It's. It's very detrimental is what it is. It is. Yes. So. But it. And I think it's really funny, we have. If you're wondering about how, how did we come up with the different. What do they call? Channels or what?
- [17:56]
C
So they're rooms. They're different rooms. Spaces are Rooms. Yep.
- [17:59]
B
And you. You made it very. Your. Your criteria is very strict for how many we could have and all that. And so because I. If it were up to me, I'd have like 40, and it. It wouldn't be any better than Facebook. You came up with a very good list. So we tried to. To curate a list of the most relevant topics. So that's why we came up. That's how we came up with those. We combined some. The ones that were combined, they're related to each other. So that's kind of how we came up with that.
- [18:27]
C
Yeah, a couple of things. So one, there is actually still one room that is just like a general conversation room, and that room actually acts like a feed. So if someone wanted to pop in, I don't know, a personal win, or if they saw something that doesn't fit specifically into a room, but they want to share it with other people, there is actually one room that acts like. Almost just like you're talking to people back and forth in a feed, but all of the other rooms act as their topics specifically. So I think that that's a really good feature.
- [18:58]
B
You know, something else. I was kind of looking at my notes and I was. Something that we haven't talked about that I really like, and I didn't think it was going to be a thing that I would like until. And I didn't even know if people would use it. But as new as people were transitioning from the Guild over into circle, I was. I would click and I would read their profile in their profiles. It was. People were actually filling out completely. I was thinking of Brian Mittman's. Brian put a bunch in, and I was just like. I was like. I really enjoyed reading people's profiles and getting to know more about them. That was really interesting.
- [19:28]
C
The profiles are the best, and they're completely different than the fact that, yes, people were on Facebook and if they wanted, you could have clicked someone's name and gone to that. But that's not a professional profile. That's not a profile that helps you learn about them in the way that you want to learn about them. So when we were in the Facebook group, we technically had a spreadsheet that was supposed to be the directory, and that was supposed to help people understand what city, what state, and what practice areas. That way you could find people near you, or if you had a referral, you could find that. The spreadsheet will be eliminated now because every member will have their own profile. And. And it's great. It's going to tell you all of those things and more. There's also a spot where people can put, you know, say you're a law firm owner, but Tiffany Weber, for example, her YouTube channel is amazing. So there's a spot where it says like your area of expertise. And if she wanted, she could put that in there. And then when members look her up on there, she would pop up and maybe they could DM her questions. It's another cool thing about Circle is there is DMing in there as well, but it's not mixed up within all the other DMs. Again, I know people love to DM me on Facebook. It is a little hard to keep track of because it's mixed up with like my Facebook marketplace messages and my grandma's messages and all of these things that happen in Facebook. So I think the DMing is going to be much more beneficial between members when they're just in circle talking to each other rather than in Facebook.
- [20:58]
B
So something I not thought about that part of it. If you have ever sent me a Facebook message, most likely it took me months or weeks to respond to it is because I am terrified of going into my messages in messenger and getting distracted for hours. It is. It's like my email. Like, it's like I have to like, that's why I've got extension to block my emails when I go into it. So I'm not distracted with this. I can go in and I'm go. I go into circle on a regular basis and if I have a direct message, I can respond to it right away. And I've zero risk of seeing a bunch of stuff from Facebook that I don't feel like that, you know, some person that I grew up with 20 years ago that wants to chitchat and catch up. I. I don't have to worry about that. It's all about business. And that's. I was at Disney World and I was actually, you know, writing articles on Circle because I was just. I was enjoying it. I didn't. There was no risk because I was. I wasn't going to get distracted by other things. And so I really enjoy that part of it.
- [21:55]
C
I do too. It's a completely different experience and I love it.
- [21:59]
B
Yeah. All right. What have we. What have we missed? Did we miss anything when it comes to that? I don't. I don't know if we have. I've got through my outline when it comes to everything. Anything else we need to touch on?
- [22:10]
C
All right, so the last thing I think we should cover are our weekly events. So those are changing from what they were previously and we changed those to benefit the members more. We think they're going to get a lot more out of these. And so what they're going to be is they're on a four week rot and then they just keep changing. So before we did something like the first Monday or sorry, the first Tuesday, the second Tuesday. Now we're just on a four week rotation and they're going to run through like that. So every other week is going to be coaching with you. And that's live Q and A, open office hours. People just come in during that time and they can bring any questions and you guys will work through them almost like a mini hot seat. You bring in your thing and you guys are just going to work through it in real time. You, you'll come up with action steps. They can leave and actually act on it right after the call.
- [22:59]
B
And can I touch on that really quick? Of course, I will touch on things or I will, I will answer questions about things and I will get into things if I feel like I've got expertise on it. Right. But I. One of the things that's really nice, whenever we get questions in advance, I'll actually take them to people that I believe are experts to get answers on them. I am a firm believer in not trying to give advice on something I have zero expertise in. And so there, I think there are too many. I had this, we had that great episode this morning that we were a record I was telling you about and I was talking to him about how many there, there are too many people out there that are expert on everything. And I think that's got to change. And so I, I want to make sure I'm, I'm practicing what I preach. So I don't want to, I don't want people think, hey, I'm, I have the answers to everything. I don't, but I will, I will get them. That's the point of the association is getting the answers. It's crowdsourcing the answers from actual experts. So I just want to make that part clear. I think it's really, really important that people, if anyone tells you they're an expert on everything, that means they're probably not an expert on anything. So just my two cents.
- [24:03]
C
I agree. So like you said, crowdsourcing and also making connections too is another huge benefit of the association, both through us referring to who we know and who we think can help. But then also other members are also going to know. So that's why you also want to go into circle and ask the questions and other people can send you to or who. What worked for them. And so then that leads us to kind of the same thing. We can also, depending on who is a coach during that quarter, you're like, you know who would be really great? Pop this question into the AI and automation room because Max and Martin are going to be able to help you with this. That's another thing that we can do. And another one of our weekly events, live events, is an expert training with Q and A. So each month, essentially one of the quarterly coaches will do a short training and then leave plenty of time for Q and A. And the Q and A can be related to the training that they did or you can bring in your topic specific questions to them during their call. So that's a new one. That's a new event that we have going on.
- [25:11]
B
Very exciting. I think that's amazing. I think that's awesome. I really, I'm really looking forward to those.
- [25:16]
C
Yeah, that's going to add a lot. And then the last change is that one of the weekly events is going to be a member breakout. So the point of this is to make better connections with the other members. I think growing your network is huge and super beneficial to running a law firm. I think that not only do you learn a lot more, not only does it expand your network, but it can make it feel less lonely, which I feel like people might not admit a lot, but I think it's a big benefit. And it will be prompted too though. So you come into as a big group and then what we do is we'll have a business prompt. So we'll say you're going to talk about this topic for say a minute and then you're going to get feedback from your group for five minutes, just depending on however many people show up. Because we put you into small group breakouts, probably three or four different people that you can work with during that call.
- [26:06]
B
I think that's awesome. I think that part's really fun too. There's so many little things like this that we're adding that I just, I don't know, it gets me giddy, makes me excited. That's. That's twice I've used that word in two days that I think I've hit my max for the year.
- [26:20]
C
I think it is all very. I think we're just very excited for the changes that we actually think are gonna like really make a difference. And we're just getting started with them. So it's gonna be Good.
- [26:31]
B
Big plans. We have big plans. So yeah, we have lots of big changes coming. Really exciting changes. I think it's gonna be amazing. We have our next two association events. I'm gonna get used to saying that the new association events scheduled end of February and then June you said for Chicago. So Chicago is gonna be in June and then we're gonna have. Phoenix is gonna be at the end of February. So super excited about that. Stay tuned for whenever we re release we release more tickets for Max Law Con. Go to Max Law events. So max law events.com for your tickets to the association events and then also keep an eye on that for. And also post from us about tickets to maxlock on. So that's, that's going to be coming out. You got to keep your ear out for that because we, we're only releasing those in phases. So go to maxlawevents.com yeah, I'll just. I want to do this too. I must remind everyone about Becca's list. So it does somewhat fit into this overall model that we're. We're building for the association. And so beccaslist co. If you've not gone on there to leave reviews for vendors or to. If you want to request a vendor, you knew that as well. But that's a big part of this too. So we're, this is the whole rising tides thing where we want to make sure we're looking out for each other when it comes to vendors. So make sure you go to BeccaSlist co. But Becca, I will give you the final word. Anything else you got?
- [27:50]
C
No, I'm just really excited if you guys want to check out the association, try it out. It's just month to month as well. So you can, you can come into the membership for a month, see what it's really like, see if it's your style, if you actually get some use out of it. But you could go to MaximumLawyer.com and then join the association and give it a shot. I'm so excited. I'm excited for the members that are already in there, already using it. And so hopefully we'll see you in there.
- [28:17]
B
I said I give you the final word. I will say this. We've created something that, that I would, that I would enjoy, that I would join myself. And so I think that that's a big part of this is we want to make sure that we created something that we thought other people would want to join as well. So I'm excited about it. So I'm hoping you're. You'll be excited about too. So I stole the last word, but thanks, Becca. Appreciate it.
- [28:37]
C
Thank.
- [28:48]
B
You.
- [28:53]
D
If your firm feels one good decision away from a breakthrough, then this is for you. We're hosting our first mastermind of 2026 in Phoenix on February 26th and 27th, and it's two days designed to actually move your firm forward and grow who you are as a leader.
- [29:08]
C
Day one is a full day of.
- [29:09]
D
Hot seats where you break into groups and work through the real problems in your business. Day two is our Wellness Workshop, featuring sessions that help you boost your energy, lower stress, and and think more clearly. We have Jocelyn and Erin Freeman, host of a top 10 marriage podcast and masters in Psychology, teaching relationship skills that you'll use at work and at home, a lunch and learn on Habit Formation with Tyson and more. View the full event details and grab your seat@maxlawevents.com.