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- [00:01]
A
Are you tired of the marketing guessing game? Does your website feel more like a digital billboard than a client magnet? If you're nodding along, you're not alone. And it's time to stop the uncertainty and start getting real results. Let's talk about your marketing spend. Are you just shelling out money every month and crossing your fingers? Do you ever wonder what impact your marketing is really having on your revenue? Well, it's time to take the guesswork out of the equation with Rise Up Media. We've been working with them for over a year and, and the feedback from our fellow members has been fantastic. Rise Up Media is here to take your marketing to the next level. They'll even perform a full audit of your online presence, giving you the good, the bad, and even let you in on what your competition is up to that you're missing out on. And the best part, there's no obligation, no catch, no pressure. If you decide to work with them, their contracts are month to month. That's right. No long term commitments tying you down. So what are you waiting for? To learn more about how Rise Up Media can transform your firms, visit riseupmedia.com max law and rise is spelled with a Z. Riseupmedia.com max law this is Maximum Lawyer with your host, Tyson Mutrix. All right, Kerry, so I want to start with why do you think lawyers sound so like stiff and robotic on camera?
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B
Have you met lawyers?
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A
I have as one. Yes. Yes.
- [01:40]
B
It's not a phenomena that's unique to those that are in the law practice. I see it across a lot of my clients really. But part of the reason is that they live in the language of their expertise, which makes sense. I mean, they've gone to school, they've practiced for a number of years and, and they are used to speaking in high stakes environments where the language is formal and perhaps even a little bit stiff. That same mindset goes to communicating on camera and that, that doesn't work generally as well on camera. Camera is really about having a conversation with your viewer and making sure that your viewer understands your viewer, your, your ideal client. Right. Let's assume that's who the viewer is. Doesn't understand language of your expertise. And so it's very easy to fall into that. I need to be formal, I need to be buttoned up. That's what I'm used to when I speak. And again, it just doesn't translate so well on the camera.
- [02:36]
A
Are there any easy tricks? Because something I always. Not always. Sometimes before an episode I'll. And I didn't have to do this with you because you're a pro. But sometimes I'll have to tell someone that, that I'm maybe I'm concerned about that might be lot of step. I'll just, you know, remind them that there's a conversation and I'll tell them about like, you know, don't have the podcast voice because sometimes you're like the podcast voice, you're like, you know, I'm talking about like is the newscaster voice.
- [03:01]
B
I used to have that voice.
- [03:02]
A
It's exactly. Nailed it. Yes. Are there any tricks to like to get them to, to not do that? Because sometimes you'll tell them and they still will just be in that voice.
- [03:11]
B
It's almost like it's just a trap that you fall into that because you feel comfortable and you feel like you're. You've put on a bit of armor and that's how you deliver. I always advise people, and you sort of alluded to this, that when you're talking to the camera, you're always talking to an audience of one. And that person, whoever it is that you're talking to, whether it's a friend or it's an ideal client that you know and you like talking to, imagine that that's the person you're having the conversation with. It's not perfect and it takes practice. I think a big part of it as well is that there is essence of nerves. It's an artificial environment. You know, I mean, if you look where we are right now, we're surrounded by lights and there's microphones and I'm being interviewed by a host and there's all these cameras and I know you, you can' all of them from, from your vantage point. But it's an artificial environment and that creates that sense of formality, I guess. And, and because of that artifice, it. It's easy to fall into putting on that armor or putting on that Persona, if you will. When I work with people, aside from advising them to always talk to one person, one of the things is that let's say they're creating a video. I will say before you actually start speaking, create a little preamble in your mind. So one of the things, and I'll use a lot of a news analogies because I used to work in the news business and on air as an, as an anchor and a reporter. And one of the things that I used to do when I was reading a story maybe for the 10th time that day and I had to make it sound exciting, was I would start with get this right in, in the lawyer's case, in my mind, I didn't say that on air. In the lawyer's case, maybe it is, you know, hey, Brian, or Hey, you know, hey Chris, or whatever, whoever it is that you're talking to create that preamble.
- [04:55]
A
And so you're having this dialogue in your head, like as all sorts of dialogues. Sure, I'm sure some of them we might want to keep secret. But, but so you're, you're starting that, like, you're kind of like thinking about who that person is and like starting that conversation.
- [05:08]
B
Yeah. And one of the things that if, if that is, and that can be a challenge, one of the things that I will tell my clients to do is actually verbalize that, like, hey Chris, this new thing happened with Blah blah blah xyz. And here's what it means, you know, for abc. And then we'll just edit out the hey Chris. But it gets them into that conversational flow and then the rest of the communication or the message or whatever it is tends to follow suit.
- [05:37]
A
What a cool idea. I really like that, that idea, like. So it's my understanding that you used to be nervous on camera, is that right?
- [05:42]
B
Oh my God.
- [05:43]
A
So like one of the, one of the things I tell my clients is whenever they're doing a depot or something is like just certain breathing techniques, like breathe through your nose, blow out through a straw kind of a thing to kind of, you know, lower the heart rate. Is there anything like that that you do before you go on camera?
- [05:58]
B
I am not nervous anymore. I have done hours and hours of live tv. I've made all the mistakes. There's no mistakes left for me to make. I make them daily, but I've experienced them all. When I first started, though, you're right, it was a wildly different story. I was, I was terrible and I was terrified. It's not a good combination, especially when you're debut on tv, is live news coverage. There's a couple of things that I used to do. So number one, I would keep a really cold bottle of water next to me. And in fact I would, I would, would be ice. I would keep it underneath the desk so nobody could see it. But if I felt myself getting flush or if I felt myself getting a little sweaty, if I was glowing, I would, I would hold that bottle of water in my hand under the desk. There's also a breathing technique called the 4 7, 8. I don't know if you, you may.
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A
Have heard of that, but I know box breathing. I Don't know. I don't know. Four, seven, eight.
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B
So box breathing is breathe in for four, hold for four, breathe out for four, hold for four. Right. It's sort of like a box. Four, seven, eight is you breathe in for four, you hold for seven, and you exhale for eight. The key is to exhale more than you're inhaling because that's what dials down your nervous system. So 4, 7, 8 is a great technique if you find yourself in, you know, whether it is a virtual deposition or you're nervous on camera, you're creating video or whatever it is. It's a great way to sort of regulate your nervous system and dial things down a little bit. Yeah.
- [07:24]
A
So we were. Remy and I were talking a while ago just about what it used to be like, years ago when we started the podcast. People would. They start talking, they would. They would misstate something and they say, oh, I want to restate that. And how that's kind of gone away. It's like it's not a thing anymore. But I'm assuming when you're on live air, you can't do that, obviously, like, you're gonna. And you're gonna make mistakes. So how do you get through those mistakes without it looking too bad?
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B
No, well, occasionally I looked really bad.
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A
Part of the.
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B
Part of the job, part of the learning process. Yeah, it's sink or swim. One of the greatest things about live tv, and that's where I learned how to do all of this stuff, is that no matter what comes your way, you've got to. The show must go on. You've got to dig your way out of it. And so whether I had a coughing fit or my co anchor had to leave the set, or there was breaking news and I didn't have anything but three words of information that I had to fill, you know, 20 minutes with. In fact, interestingly enough, one time there was a fire drill at a station that I worked with, or worked at rather. And I was out on the scene at. At a reporting, and the. The station had to evacuate. And they're like, carrie, can you fill? So I had to just stand outside and talk for like 25 minutes. I started talking to people around me. My point in relaying that story is that because it's live tv, you do have to dig your way out of whatever is in front of you. And that's why live video is one of the best ways to get really good on camera really quickly. It's terrifying for most people, but the key to moving through it is to recognize that you will absolutely come out on the other side. It probably won't be pretty when you're first learning how to do it. And that's perfectly fine. Address what went wrong. You know, in news language, we'd say, you know, if we messed up when we said, of course, I can't think of an example now, we'd say, you know, something rather right. I correct the mistake and move on. So acknowledge it, Correct it. Don't make a big deal of it, and move on to the next thing.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you even address it? You just. Just kind of just move on.
- [09:34]
B
I mean, if I. If I said something really wrong, which I have, on occasion, accidentally, might have made a lot of curse words slip. Accidentally here or there. Salt Lake City, you know, can we curse on this podcast?
- [09:47]
A
Yes, you can.
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B
I said Salt Lake shitty.
- [09:50]
A
That's right. Although Salt Lake City is very beautiful. It is very.
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B
I lived there for five years. I adored it. But, you know, in the case of that. Something like that, absolutely. I apologized and I. But then I moved on. The more you stumble over it, the bigger deal you make of it, and the more people's attention is drawn to it.
- [10:08]
A
It's like if you have a spot on your shirt from lunch.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
No one notices it until you say, hey, I got a spot on my shirt.
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B
100.
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A
Now everyone notices you said something.
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B
That's all they notice.
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A
Right? Yeah. Is there. Are there any tricks? I'm asking this question because it's. This is about appearance on camera.
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B
Yeah.
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A
There was this conference I went to years ago, and, like, their whole shtick was they would make you look good on camera. And, like, they get these little tricks where, like, they were, like, put, like, paper clips behind the. The sleeves. Are there. Are there things like that that you would do that maybe might help people?
- [10:39]
B
Absolutely. So one of the things, if you're watching this on video, I always say, don't wear white. Of course I'm wearing white. Now, white is a very dangerous color for me to wear because I have pets and kids, but I managed to not have a spot on my shirt today. So, yeah, I always suggest avoid wearing white or black. So we're. We're.
- [10:56]
A
We. We broke all the rules. Yeah.
- [10:59]
B
Avoid wearing white or black. Blue is a universally flattering color. It makes a lot of sense in the legal space as well, because it conveys trust and it conveys authority. Stability is a color. Blue represents, you know, those three characteristics. Yeah. You should always wear things that are tailored as well. So one of the tricks that we used to use in the news business. If something was a little boxy, we. We'd put a clip on the back of it. If you're a gentleman and you're wearing a suit coat, you know, pull the back of your suit down and sit on it. I'm working with a. With a client right now. I'm doing a little bit of media training, and he's not creating video, but he's doing media appearances. And, like, you look a little sloppy. It's because your jacket's all rumbly. Just sit on it, and it'll pull it down and it'll lay straight, and it's a more flattering look on camera.
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A
Where were you about eight hours ago? Because I was wearing my jacket. Yeah, I was a blue jacket, so.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But the shirt was white. I don't know if that counts, but. And I. I kept having to, like, pull it down.
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B
Yeah.
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A
If I would just sat on the bottom of it, I think that would have been fun.
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B
You should have booked me earlier today, man.
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A
Geez, that. That's a great tip. Hey, what else you got? Those are. These are good tips.
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B
Oh, what else do I have? Okay. One of the things that the camera does, and this is something I learned. In fact, I just did a post on LinkedIn about this. One of the things learned early on in the news business, watching the air check the tape of the recording of the newscast, is that the camera eats consonants for lunch. So if you're not enunciating. And I usually, like. I still fall into that habit where I. I tend to get a little lazy with my speech. Things sound a little slurred. I promise I'm not drinking. That can happen if you're dehydrated. But the camera, the microphone will eat consonants for lunch. So make sure that you're really punching through those consonants. It'll make your message more crisp and more clear, and you will sound more authoritative.
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A
You nailed it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
You enunciated right through that thing.
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B
There you go. I didn't even draw attention to it, did I?
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A
That's right, I did. So I. I want to hear about how you went from someone nervous to be on camera to then an Emmy award winner. So how'd that happen?
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B
So I started out, and I was terrified. I mean, I don't mean. I don't mean just scared. Like, I'm talking back of the room, puddle of my own vomit, maybe breathing into a paper bag sort of scared. And that was something that has followed me through elementary school, middle school, certainly high school. I started college as a pre veterinary medicine major, loved animals.
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A
That's quite a difference from what you did.
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B
It's a hard 180. Yeah, I found out about a year and a half in that the one thing that disagreed with me more than public speaking was organic chemistry. And so I took a year and a half off. This is a bit of a rambly story, but I'm coming to a point I will land the plane. I took a year and a half off. Still didn't know what it was that I wanted to do. And you know, my friends were all like approaching graduation at this point. So I'm like, well my school started this new communications program and it was very broad. It was, there was some pr, there was some marketing, there was some journalism, there was, you know, business communication, et cetera. Certainly I'll be able to do something here that will allow me to make a living, number one. Number two, no organic chemistry. And number three, I think I recognized at some point that this fear I had of public speaking was going to be a hindrance and I was going to have to take two Public speaking. Yeah, slightly. I was going to have to take two public speaking courses. Now one of the things I did when I re enrolled was I was trying to make up for lost time. So 12 hours was a full time load. 12 credit hours. I was taking 24 and I wanted to figure out how to jam in another three. But I was in class Monday through Friday pretty much from like 8 in the morning until 6 at night. And so I figured one of the ways that I could jam in three extra credit hours was to get an internship in an industry that doesn't operate on your regular 9 to 5. It's clever news, right? News operates 24, 7, 365. So I applied for an internship at WYFF was the NBC affiliate in Greenville, Spartanburg, South Carolina. I went to my undergrad at Clemson and the first day out I absolutely just fell in love with it. Fell in love with the storytelling, fell in love with the adrenaline of it, fell in love with all of it. And then I had to figure out how it was that I was going to overcome this fear. Not just to the point where I, I was able to do the thing, but I was able to do it well enough that somebody was going to pay me to do it. And that sort of began the long process of overcoming it. And I will tell you, it wasn't until I was in my first job that I in Wichita Falls, Texas that I really began to get my Arms around it. I learned on the job. And thank God there wasn't YouTube because it was. Was pretty atrocious.
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A
Oh, I can only imagine. I mean, geez. I mean, oh, my gosh. Like, think about some things that could have made it on video for. It's like, oh, my goodness, that's. That'd be. Be awful. But when did you start to see those massive strides and like, what did you do to. To get better? Because I'm guessing at the beginning. Like, like anything when you're first a lawyer, you're not gonna be good at being a lawyer. You're gonna get better at it. So how do you, like, where did you. You start to see the. The strides?
- [16:25]
B
So a couple of things. Number one, I had to do this every day. So when I work with, you know, my lawyer clients right now, I recognize this is not something they're probably going to be able to do every single day. But if you can open up your phone for 30 seconds and just riff into it and then go back and watch and see what you didn't like and then open your phone for 30 seconds the next day and work on that particular thing. For me, it was doing it every single day and having to do it on live tv. And if you remember, I said, you know, live. Live video is one of the best ways to get really good really quickly. And where I saw, you know, the skills develop, then the confidence came, and then I was willing to sort of try new things and push the envelope a little bit. And where it wasn't an epiphany moment, but where I. I think recognized it was, was the first time that I had to deliver breaking news without my co anchor. And it wasn't pretty. But like I said, I got through it. I came out on the other side. I was able to deliver the information. I think it was about a brush fire and, you know, and I realized I can do this thing. And then when I realized that that was. That was the thing that really created the change. And then I got. Then I got excited about what else I could try.
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A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You really. I guess you realize that, you know, it's not that bad. It's all good. You can get through it. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
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B
Yeah, it was very cool.
- [17:51]
A
So let's talk about some more about these lawyer videos. Yeah. What do you. What should people be talking about?
- [17:56]
B
Well, it depends on what their goals are. So generally speaking, there's a couple of goals that most attorneys have when they're thinking about creating, let's say Social media video. A lot of them aren't on LinkedIn, they're on Instagram and they're on Facebook. LinkedIn though has, you know, the latest statistic on leads generated from LinkedIn is that there are about 277% more leads generated on LinkedIn than Facebook. So if you're not on LinkedIn, you should be on LinkedIn. YouTube is also very underutilized. Generally, lawyers are using video for branding. They're using it to create visibility, certainly they're using it to create referral opportunities and to generate clients. Right. Bring clients into awareness of them. They're videos don't follow a traditional sales funnel. Right. Awareness certainly is at the top. Interest, desire, action. That's sort of your typical social media marketing funnel. Lawyers are more looking for demand generation. So staying top of mind, their content is a little bit different. There's trust building content, there is authority building content. They are, there's story. So anonymized client case studies, if you will. Those kinds of videos play really well for attorneys on LinkedIn in terms of generating again, referral opportunities and keeping yourself top of mind for clients.
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A
So are you recommending that they do all of those different things?
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B
Not all every day.
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A
Not all day every day. But like, would you, like, would you do all every week or every month?
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B
No, you would hit. So let's. I always say if you're not doing video now, the easiest way to get started is to plan for, let's say one video a week. And so you're rotating through those videos. So it's authority generating video or building video, rather it's credibility establishing video. Then it's maybe an, again, an anonymized client case study. And then it's story. Maybe it's your why or something that makes you different. What, what is the differentiator? And so you're hitting those one at a time. If you're doing one video a week, you're running through that rotation. You know, you're hitting four of them and then you're doubling back and you're starting again the following month.
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A
What about like personal stories? Would you, would you mix in any.
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B
Absolutely 100. And, and this is like one of the biggest battles that I have because a lot of times lawyers really are not. And again, I don't mean to pick on lawyers. This is something that goes across the board with people in many different industries. Sharing things that are personal can be a little bit scary. But if there's something that, and you don't want to share vulnerable stories just for the sake of being vulnerable. Don't wear vulnerability as a marketing tactic. But if there's something that you can share that makes your clients trust you, let's say you're in, I don't know, you're in the bankruptcy space. Your clients really have to trust you. You're guiding them through.
- [20:48]
A
It's a tough time.
- [20:49]
B
Exactly. And so if you're able to share a story, whether it's a story that's personal about you or something you learned working with a client, there is absolutely a place for that. And I would say it's one of your strongest content types, especially with AI right now. Video is sort of one of the last bastions of authenticity. And for now. For now, for now, for now. And so using story to drive your message will sit with people longer, it will resonate with people and they'll establish trust and rapport with you through it.
- [21:25]
A
Although with AI back to that for a second, like, YouTube has put in some protections now, where it just started, you know, yesterday, where they're not monetizing any AI voices.
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B
Right.
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A
I do wonder if the other platforms are going to follow that suit, but I don't know. It's going to be an interesting thing over the years.
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B
There's a lot of AI slop out there, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And it's tiresome. LinkedIn videos are not AI driven right now. There's a lot of comments and a lot of posts, text posts that are AI driven, which is, I think, why people. One of the reasons anyway, that people are hungering for real video right now.
- [22:02]
A
Absolutely.
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B
Because it's you and it's, it's authentic.
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A
Do you, do you have any idea recommendations on how long videos should be? Roughly?
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B
Yeah. So LinkedIn has a limit on it's 10 minutes as of now and it's, it's been 15 minutes sometimes and I don't know, as maybe as high as 20 minutes, except for live video. So their, their limit is 10 minutes. That's far longer than you want to be. The sweet spot for LinkedIn video is about 60 seconds. I've done some videos that are 30 that have gotten, you know, millions of views. I've done some that are 2 minutes and 30 seconds, which is significantly longer, obviously that have gotten millions of views. I've done some that are 60 seconds that have flopped. But generally speaking, that's the sweet spot. If you are doing, you know, TikTok or Instagram or YouTube shorts, you're usually looking in the 15 to 30 second range, obviously longer form video on YouTube. Tutorials, et cetera, is going to be, you know, significantly longer than 15 to 30 seconds.
- [23:05]
A
So I know that lawyers were always looking for formulas and things like that. Is there any sort of like formula that you should follow when it, when you're doing these videos? So let's say it's a 60 second LinkedIn video.
- [23:14]
B
Yeah.
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A
What, like, what's the like. Give me the outline of what it should be.
- [23:18]
B
Yep. Hook value, cta.
- [23:20]
A
That's pretty easy.
- [23:22]
B
A lot of the advice that you'll see on LinkedIn is, is not applicable to lawyers. And again, it's not because lawyers are following that traditional sales funnel. And what I mean by sales funnel is again, awareness, interest, desire, action. Right? They're taking some sort of action to work with you. You're not probably anticipating, well, maybe you are a divorce or a bankruptcy or whatever the case may be. You find yourself in that situation and then you're looking for legal help. So again, not following that traditional sales funnel. So a lot of the content on LinkedIn, the advice is not necessarily applicable to lawyers. You are still having a hook. This is.
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A
Hey, Brian.
- [24:00]
B
Yeah, hey Brian. Exactly. Your hook is the thing that gets people's attention. It is the thing that will make them stop the scroll. So what is it that you're talking about that is applicable to that person that lets them know this piece of content is made for me, it feels very personal. The value is what comes next. So your hook is, you know, five to 10 seconds and it's right out of the gate, right? You're not bobbling around with a, hey, everybody just popped in, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're, you're hitting them hard, then you're moving into the value. So what is the 1, not 5, not 7, not 3. What is the one key takeaway, the thing that somebody needs to understand, do recognize, think about whatever that is, that's the value. Right? And then your call to action, what is it that you want them to do at the end of this post? Do you want them to book a consultation with you? Do you want them to share the post? Do you want them to comment or tag somebody in it? So that's your, your cta, your call to action. And that's the general format for a video on LinkedIn and really a video.
- [25:12]
A
On any platform, it's pretty, I mean that's pretty quick. I mean, are you, I wonder what your thoughts are on things like Opus Clip. I don't know if you're familiar with that where like you're taking longer videos, repurposing them for sure. I wonder since. Because it's kind of hard to follow that formula with things like that.
- [25:28]
B
Oh, absolutely. If you're recording, for example, a podcast and you're going to be cutting it up into small pieces, then, yeah, it's. I'm not giving you a hook here. Every, every second you may ask a question and I'll have something that's particularly interesting to say at the top and then I explain it a little bit further. I'm not, at this point, anyway, offering a call to action. Opus Clip Descript is another one. If you're looking to create content from your podcasts. Absolutely. You can run it through Opus or descriptive. There's a number of them out there. It's not going to be perfect. But if editing is your bottleneck, then that's a great option. I mean, a podcast is a fantastic way to create video content. It's, you know, a 30 or 60 minute podcast and you've got a month of content in front of you and you can use it for all kinds of things, not just social media. If you are looking for something that's a little more precise or pristine with your editing, then I suggest outsourcing. There's a lot of platforms that you can use to edit yourself that are not AI driven. Capcut is one of them, although they have recently changed their terms of service, which is troublesome. I'll leave it at that. Yeah, but there's. There's other platforms out there. I do a lot of my editing just on the editing app in my phone, you know, without using another platform. I trim off the front, I trim off the back, I run it through sub magic for captions. I happen to like that caption platform. I like the font. And then I upload it to. To LinkedIn.
- [26:54]
A
I saw something fun. So think of something you want to pitch on the podcast. Okay, so because I know you coach lawyers when it comes to video. So think about. So think about what your hook's going to be and then what your value is going to be and then your call to action. And then we'll do is we'll cut this and this will be one of the videos we put out. So think about what you want to do. Oh, my God, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Yeah, how about that? To promote you, though.
- [27:18]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so hook, value, call to action. You are putting me on the spot. My brain is fried. It's the end of the day. Hey, Brian, dare you. Hey, Brian, get this. I would say so. A Good hook would be, do I look drunk? Was not the feedback that I was looking for. That's my hook. Right. Are you interested? I wasn't drunk, by the way, just in case you were wondering. I realized as I was watching my air check back from my days in the news business that the microphone was eating my consonants for lunch, and I was slurring and I sounded not credible. I sounded not authoritative. Okay, let me think now how I would phrase the rest of the post. One of the things you need to be aware of as you're creating video is to really punch those consonants. It will make you sound credible. It will make you sound clear. It will make you sound crisp. If you have. Here's my call to action. If you have questions or you're struggling with communicating effectively on camera, book a video authority blueprint call with me. The link is in the comments.
- [28:17]
A
Love it. See, how about this?
- [28:18]
B
Yeah.
- [28:19]
A
And all that will be cut like so, you know, that was coming. We'll be able to cut all of that and then it's a video.
- [28:24]
B
Yeah. There you go.
- [28:25]
A
Fantastic. It's. And it's part of a longer video, too.
- [28:28]
B
Done.
- [28:28]
A
So thank you for that. You bet. Now that you help promote you. So that's. That's fantastic. What would you say some of the mistakes are that people make, attorneys make when it comes to being on video?
- [28:38]
B
Oh, my gosh. It's the mistake that everybody makes, and it's lack of energy. The camera, microphone, the lens, all of it is energetically flattening. What I mean by that is you've got hardware, you've got software. You're probably recording your video maybe on your laptop. On Zoom, which you should not do. Always record on your phone. The audio is better. The video is better.
- [28:59]
A
The whole night with that one. Really quick. Yeah, I use camo. Yeah, Camo app. Is there some other app that you recommend for using your laptop with your camera?
- [29:08]
B
I never use. I always just record on my phone. I use the camera app on my phone. You know, a lot of people record on, like, Zoom, for example. Zoom's audio is very compressed. They don't have the bandwidth for everybody to use it, so the audio doesn't sound great. If you're recording a podcast, that's important, right? It's important, period. So I. One of the easiest workarounds is just put your phone on a tripod and shoot on your camera there. Right. You've got 4K likely access to video. And. And that's broadcast quality. If it doesn't look broadcast quality, it's probably because you're framed poorly or the lighting is bad or your audio is bad, which are all easy fixes. Now, what was your original?
- [29:44]
A
Yeah, so I. The mistakes that attorneys make. Three. Yeah. Three off.
- [29:48]
B
No, no, no. So energetically flattening. So you've got. You've got a microphone, right? Quality is a little bit degraded as it goes through there. Your vocal variety, you've got a lens. It looks a little bit different through the lens than it does when you're in person. So that is a little bit energetically flattening. Then you've got the fact that you're sort of in this little box and there's no context right, for you or for the viewer. You can't see what the viewer is doing. The viewer can't see what's going on around you. And then you have the psychology that goes into speaking on camera. So without belaboring it, you view most people who are afraid of speaking, whether they're on a stage or they're in front of the lens, view the audience as a predator. It goes back to our reptilian brains and the way that they're designed to keep us safe. And it's, you know, you might hear it referred to as the ego. It's the thing that wants to keep us small so that we don't make idiots of ourselves. And so when you are in front of the lens or you're up on the stage, when you're viewing the audience as a predator, the last thing that you want to do is make loud noises or big gestures. That. That's. That's a sure death. Right? Again, if we go back to our reptilian brain, so we shrink, our vocal variety reduces. We tend to, you know, not use our hands. We sit stock still. Our facial expressions, maybe we stare, you know, blankly into the camera or whatever it is. If you think you're delivering with energy, and I know this was very painful lesson in the news business. Record 30 seconds of video and go back and watch and see if the energy with which you thought you were delivering is actually what's coming through. Nine times out of 10, it's not. Here's a way to get around that. If you imagine yourself at a noisy restaurant, and let's say you're at a table of eight and you're down on one side and you're looking to talk to somebody who's clear at the other end, on the other side, what are some of the things that you would do in order to make sure that person understood you over the Din of the restaurant around you. You may lean forward when things are exciting. You project your voice a little bit more. You may use hand gestures to emphasize, you know, I did three things today. You know, you hold up three fingers. Conceptually, that's exactly what you want to do when you're on camera. Now, there is some nuance because it's cam. Being on camera can be like an intimate environment as well because it's just you and the person who's watching you really. But conceptually that's exactly what you want to do.
- [32:21]
A
I would, I can't wait to watch back the beginning of this episode.
- [32:25]
B
Okay.
- [32:25]
A
Because I had a stressful call before this, you know, and I was, I was very frustrated, you know, and I really do wonder what my energy was like. So in a situation like that, I don't know if my energy was good or bad. I, I'm assuming it was bad, but I tried to make it good.
- [32:43]
B
Yeah.
- [32:43]
A
So let's say that. So you're on the other side. You, you clearly have great energy. How do you. Combat's probably not the right word. How do you balance whatever the person that you're on the show with or on the camera with has got low energy and you, you want to bring up the energy.
- [32:58]
B
Right. So I never, I hesitate to say bring yourself down. That's not what I mean. But you need to be authentically you. And if you have a lot of energy, that's what you need to bring. Right. I usually try, when I host a podcast, I usually try and prep my guests. I, I go through that explanation with them. Sometimes they need a little bit of media training. Prior. But I walk them through this. This is what the camera's gonna do. This is why it does it briefly. And here's how you overcome it. So, you know, there's nerves that most people need to work through, but I find as the conversation goes on, it gets a little bit easier. My, you know, this is very conversational.
- [33:38]
A
Sure.
- [33:39]
B
I didn't think you had bad energy, by the way.
- [33:40]
A
Well, good. I'm glad. That's good. That's good. Makes me feel better.
- [33:43]
B
But I think also it's a little bit of building. So, you know, if you're having a conversation with your guest or you're having a conversation with your host prior to turning on the camera and starting to record, you know, have a, have a, a light hearted conversation, something that brings the energy in the room up. At the end of the day, you could royally screw things up and you're gonna be fine. Right. You're gonna be fine. Like, I have. I have a couple of Emmys on my shelf. They were not perfect shows. I was not perfect in them, and I screwed up royally more times than I can count, but it never affected my ability to get a job. It's not going to affect your abilities as a lawyer either. So recognize that it feels very high stakes and it's important for you to sound authoritative. Incredible. But one mistake is not going to damage you.
- [34:38]
A
So I'm a little envious of you because you are. You use your hands really well.
- [34:42]
B
Yeah.
- [34:43]
A
I feel like. And I just tried to. And I just hit the. Hit the stand, you know, so. And I've heard. I've heard that using your hands, like, keeping them, like, visible.
- [34:50]
B
Yeah.
- [34:50]
A
The camera is really important.
- [34:51]
B
Yeah.
- [34:52]
A
So how do you do that without hitting the microphone stand? Like, you were very, like. One of the things that's really important about hands is the. The way you use them. I don't intentionally use them because, like, you use. Use three.
- [35:03]
B
You.
- [35:04]
A
I can't remember how you put it up, but yeah, you have something wrong with my pinky. So I use three this way because it's just easier for me doing this. Harder for me.
- [35:11]
B
It's like you gave me the fingers.
- [35:12]
A
It's like, I can'. It's hard. Right. So I always do this. Right. But, like, instead of like, you. You're consistent with your like. So you say three. You put up three.
- [35:19]
B
Yeah.
- [35:19]
A
And that's. So matching the words to the hands or hand gestures is really important.
- [35:23]
B
It's key.
- [35:24]
A
So how. I guess what are. Do you have any tips when it comes to using your hands effectively?
- [35:28]
B
Yeah. So as long as you're not. Have you ever seen that scene from Talading I was like. To do with my hands?
- [35:36]
A
Exactly. Yes.
- [35:37]
B
As long as your hands are underscoring what it is that you're saying, don't overthink it. I have a client who. Who had a series of videos he was recording. This is one of the things that he overthought. Use your hands as you would in regular communication, but make sure that you're underscoring whatever it is that you're going to say. And it doesn't mean there's a specific hand gesture. That's right. If you're talking about this, you need to do this thing. And if you're doing this, you need to do this thing. But I've learned over my time again in the news industry that even when I'm feeling not as energetic as I need to adding a little bit of body movement into the shot makes creates a more dynamic visual, and so it can minimize some of the other energetic challenges that you may be having.
- [36:26]
A
Give me an example of what you mean by that. The body movement.
- [36:28]
B
Using my hands, right. Leaning forward, you know, moving my head around, addressing the camera, rather than just sitting very static and stoically. If you are having an issue with energy or you're feeling particularly tired that day, having that stoic, static stance there, it has that for alliteration will emphasize that. So adding some. Right. You're. It's the same as. It's not exactly the same, but it's like creating more edits or more cuts when you're editing, you're creating a more dynamic feel by being able to use your hands or editing or whatever it is that you're doing. So, anyway, to answer your question, I've gotten used to using my hands because I use them so often when I spoke on. On the news for the very same reasons. Right. I anchored a lot of morning tv. It was exhausting. I was exhausted. I used my hands to try and help create energy within the frame. So practice. If you feel like you don't know how you normally use your hands and so you're overthinking it, what I would do is set up your phone, your camera on a little tripod in the corner of your room and have a conversation with, you know, your spouse or your partner or whatever it is. Give it a while to get into the flow of things, and then go back and watch how you're actually using them. I know it sounds like a laborious process, and it is a little bit. But if you're overthinking how to use your hands, it's one of the easiest ways to recognize how you naturally use them. And then really speaking on camera is. Is just about emulating your. Your natural communication, but a little bit amplified.
- [38:02]
A
Yeah. So, okay, so here we got three cameras, right?
- [38:04]
B
Yep.
- [38:05]
A
You got. Which is great. I love these cameras because it's got the different lights and television. So I know this one's live, which is great. Remy's got a great studio. So if you're ever in New York City, look up Remy.
- [38:14]
B
It is nice.
- [38:15]
A
He's fantastic. Really, really good. But when it. When it comes to that, like, obviously you can see our hands.
- [38:20]
B
Right.
- [38:20]
A
Because they're so far away.
- [38:21]
B
Right.
- [38:22]
A
When you are recording your own videos. Let's say you're using your iPhone.
- [38:25]
B
Yeah.
- [38:25]
A
How far away should that be? Because I noticed sometimes whenever I'm Doing some. Some interviews. Podcast interviews with the Riverside. Yeah, I feel like I can't get my hands up high enough so they're visible. So I don't put them up high enough.
- [38:38]
B
Yeah.
- [38:38]
A
So what are your thoughts? Like, what are your suggestions when it comes to that?
- [38:41]
B
Okay, so if you are doing something, for example, like on Riverside, use your hands. If you're not, use them even if they're out of. Out of frame. It's okay to do that if you're recording a video, let's say for LinkedIn, and you should be recording LinkedIn vertical, like this, not like this. Right. This is the video feed. So record up and down. And generally speaking, you want to have minimal headroom. So not a lot of room between the bot. The top of your head and the bottom of the screen and probably to about waist length. So Ish.
- [39:16]
A
So you're back a little bit then.
- [39:17]
B
It's back a little bit. Yeah, I would say, you know, generally speaking, when I'm recording a video in that particular format, I'm probably about 2ft away from my. From my phone. Now I put it on a tripod. I tilt the tripod forward a little bit. It's a more flattering shot. So I put the back leg up on a book.
- [39:36]
A
Okay, so like. Like this towards you. Like this, Like.
- [39:40]
B
Yeah, like just slightly.
- [39:42]
A
Oh, interesting. It's not backwards, but towards you. Yeah. Okay, interesting.
- [39:45]
B
Upside down, but like. So at. I'll try and show. Whoops. Now I'm hitting the microphone.
- [39:52]
A
I broke you. Sorry.
- [39:53]
B
So. So up like this. So at eye level. Here's my camera. Eye level or slightly above and just slightly tilted forward. That way you get a more flattering shot and you're able to create video in a vertical format without any closer than that. And you're sort of like a disembodied head floating there.
- [40:11]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I've also heard that, like. So just slightly above eye level.
- [40:14]
B
Yep, yep. Slightly above aisle. Absolutely right at eye level or slightly above. You don't have to, you know, do an influencer selfie where your camera's like way up here. But yeah, at eye level or slightly above is the most flattering shot.
- [40:26]
A
So is it fair to say that you can. If you can touch the camera, you're too close?
- [40:30]
B
No, not necessarily. No, I. I'm about to 2ft away from my camera. When I shoot again, I have it on a tripod. I have the back leg propped up a little bit and, you know, I've got lighting all around me. But no, that's about. That's a, that's a good frame of reference about two feet away.
- [40:46]
A
Yeah. I want to talk to you about or ask you about building trust on camera. Yeah, I always think about this. Whenever I talk about things like this, I think about this chiropractic friend of mine and he flew down to Florida and he's not a, he's not a guy that wears the white jacket. Yeah, but, but he, the, the video company insisted that he wear the white doctor's coat. Right. And he's got, he, he had to be on camera with the white doctor's coat. So I wonder, like, do we, are we supposed to wear suits on camera? Like what, like how do we build trust? Give me, give me some, some pointers on that.
- [41:17]
B
Yeah, so I was. If you're talking specifically about what to wear, you, you meet your audience where they are and slightly elevated. So for an attorney, again, it depends a little bit on who his particular clientele is and, and to some degree who is referral partners or her referral partners might be as well. But where your audience is slightly elevated, you don't need to wear a suit, you don't need to wear a tie. Plenty of attorneys that I see that are wildly successful on LinkedIn and creating video who show up in T shirts that may not be your jam. You should wear whatever you feel comfortable with. But generally speaking, if your audience is watching you, you know they're doom scrolling at 3am because they have a legal issue that's keeping them up in a panic every night. You don't want to come across as somebody who's stiff and formal. What are they wearing? They might be in their pajamas. So maybe you're wearing a button down shirt, something along those lines. Think about meeting them where they are and then slightly elevated.
- [42:11]
A
All right, so let's talk about non appearance. Let's talk about building trust that way. So one of the, one of the things I intentionally brought up was the fact that you're an Emmy award winner. Right. So it shows that authority. What are some ways that especially, I mean I was able to do that because I was able to ask you lead, lead that, lead you with that, that. But I mean if you would have brought it up, it might have, I mean it could have been. You probably would have found a great way of doing it. But I think if I would have tried to do something like that, it would sound like I was bragging.
- [42:39]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [42:40]
A
So how do you build authority? How do you build trust other than like the what you wear?
- [42:44]
B
Right, right, right. Well, it's definitely not saying things like I'm humble and honored to announce that I see a lot of that on LinkedIn and that is not a good idea.
- [42:54]
A
That's not a good look. Give me a second.
- [42:57]
B
Do you do a lot of those posts?
- [42:58]
A
No, I don't. No way. No. No.
- [43:01]
B
It's definitely not that. And it's not necessarily, you know, bragging about a client outcome or a certain thing that you've done. It is about presenting yourself as an authentic person. It is about highlighting your expertise. It's about highlighting your credibility and driving a lot of that through story. That way you can share real takeaways for your audience that show why you do things a certain way or what makes you different as a. Again, let's use the bankruptcy attorney as an example from another person who does the same thing. What is the differentiator? All of those elements combined will be the trust builders. It's not about doing one post and hoping that that does everything it needs to to build trust, but it's about establishing a clear, consistent message that underscores that every single time. And that has to do with your messaging. It has to do with the way that you deliver. Are you looking directly into the camera? Are you establishing eye contact with the audience? Are you delivering in a way that doesn't sound timid or awkward or unsure? It's about all of those things combined.
- [44:13]
A
So you mentioned something about like posting about like wins or whatever. And I like something that drives me nuts. Yeah, I'm a personal injury attorney. So a lot of personal injury attorney friends and there's a few that will just post like their settlements and stuff like that, verdicts. And to me it's interesting the way I view it too, because like if it's like, if it's a criminal defense attorney that gets an acquittal for a client, it's usually them posting and like how happy they are for their client kind of a thing. Whenever it's my injury attorney friends, they'll post like some verdict or settlement and it's. It totally sounds like they're bragging and it drives me nuts. And I'm thinking maybe it's just I'm an injury attorney. But you, what you just said makes me think that, no, it's not just me. It just sounds like they're bragging and they don't. It's like you're just talking about yourself and not about what you can do for the client.
- [45:00]
B
100%. There is a lot of content. And again, not picking on attorneys. This happens across the board. There's a lot of content out there that speaks about the person who's posting it. Right. I did this, I won that. I. Rather than looking at it through the lens of the person that you are helping or the client that you, you're helping and, and, or the referral partner that you're looking to get in front of, what makes you referable. So it's driving that through story and message and confidence on camera, delivering and understanding what those, those buckets are that build that trust and build that credibility and build that authority.
- [45:42]
A
One of the things that I've heard, I'm gonna shift gears a little bit when it comes to like shorts because we've talked a lot about like LinkedIn, YouTube shorts. Yeah, TikTok, all that kind of stuff. I've always heard that it's. You use those to drive them back to like the longer form videos on YouTube and all that. Is that still the case or is that shifting? Because I, I'm always wondering about is, is there a return on investment when it comes to the short videos? Because we've never really been able to tie. Okay, these shorts are leading to these clients.
- [46:08]
B
Yeah.
- [46:08]
A
But we can indirectly kind of tie them to the longer videos. Well, because they'll remember watching some video that they saw on YouTube, not necessarily short. So I wonder what your thoughts is, is it, is that still the same strategy or is it different?
- [46:22]
B
Well, it's interesting you mentioned that I have a client who just started, not just. We've been working together for about three months now and has seen a 4 to 4,009% increase on their website traffic. The only thing that they've done different is they started posting videos. They are not on YouTube, for example. They are posting mostly on Instagram and on LinkedIn.
- [46:43]
A
Oh, interesting.
- [46:43]
B
And their, their call to action is, is to send them to the website. Not always, but often. And so that's where that traffic is coming from. There is still a way to create a funnel from a shorter type video that's designed for discoverability. So a lot of shorter videos are the things that bring you into awareness of your client, your referral partner, whoever it is. Right. So they're scrolling, they're looking for something. The algorithm has brought them to you and they've discovered you that way. Now how do you establish additional trust? That is done usually through longer form content. So podcasts, media appearances, blogs and YouTube tutorials. And so there's absolutely a way to drive from discoverability to trust building content, which some of your discoverability Content is also trust building content, but it moves into the longer form content to really establish that trust and create rapport with, with, with the client.
- [47:46]
A
Do you think law firm owners should have a podcast?
- [47:50]
B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it's wildly underutilized method of building a brand, positioning yourself as an authority and generating referral opportunities. Are you necessarily, I mean, you may be speaking to clients through a podcast, but you're going to be creating a lot of referral opportunities for yourself especially.
- [48:10]
A
Yeah. So would it be, would that be sort of the angle is more of.
- [48:13]
B
A referral based for a podcast? You mean specifically? I mean, listen, you could create, there's a podcast for everything. If you want to talk about bankruptcy and you want, I mean really, there's a lot of bizarre niches. If you want to create a podcast that's designed to talk to, specifically to clients who are going through bankruptcy issues, absolutely, you could create that. And, and I have clients who do have podcasts that are designed to generate, you know, client interest. However, if you are creating a podcast and you're, I mean, it really depends on who you're looking to talk to. I guess at the end of the day is what it comes down to. Are you looking to create a podcast for clients directly or are you looking to make yourself top of mind with your peers to create legal opportunities right through, through referral partnerships? Depends on who your audience is. And, and I do think there is, there is room in content creation to talk to two audiences. It's a little bit harder when you're doing a podcast, especially if you're having guests, but there is room to do both. Both.
- [49:18]
A
Yeah. That always is kind of a struggle, especially with people that have like newsletters, you know, like they'll have one for attorneys and one for the clients. It's kind of hard to do both, but I mean, it's possible, but it's pretty tough.
- [49:28]
B
Yeah.
- [49:28]
A
I want to ask about authenticity and how are there ways, are there little tricks to, to be more authentic on camera?
- [49:36]
B
Yeah, well, it goes back to sort of that armor that we talked about putting on at the beginning of this podcast. And when you get in front of the camera, there's a tendency to move into character, if you will. Right. You, you're, you've put on your lawyer coat, your, your, your uniform or your costume or whatever it is that you want to call it. And I had one too when I was in the news business. You know, it was that little microphone that had the flag on it that told you what network I worked for. That was my costume. And. But it puts us in the mindset of trying to be something that doesn't necessarily translate to who with who we or resonate with who we are as people. Authenticity is one of those words that is bandied about and people have become super stressed out about, how do I be authentic? There is nothing more simple than authenticity. Authenticity is being who you are at all times in front of all people with some polish. Maybe not all of who you are in front of all of your audiences, but. But that's all authenticity is. It's being yourself and behind a closed door and, you know, in front of it. It's that simple. There's really nothing else to it. So if you talk a certain way and you do a certain thing, you know, again, maybe with a little bit of polish, but that's who you are on camera. It's. It's honestly that simple. We've made it very. We've made it so complex.
- [51:01]
A
Yeah. So I've got a couple quotes like one of from you. Imperfect action beats perfect planning when it comes to video. And then you talk about. People don't connect with perfect. They connect with presence.
- [51:12]
B
Yeah.
- [51:12]
A
Which I think. I think that's important, I guess. How do you build the is? It just is as simple as just being consistent. Posting. Is that what it is?
- [51:19]
B
I mean, there's a little more to it. You could be consistently awful, and I wouldn't suggest doing that.
- [51:25]
A
That's fair. Okay.
- [51:27]
B
So there is an interesting mindset that I find that lawyers especially bring to the idea of content creation. And it goes back to, again, something that we spoke about at the beginning of the podC past, which is you're living in the language of their expertise. They've trained for years and years and years to do this particular thing. And in that world, one typo in a document renders the entire document null and void. Right. And that same mindset is oftentimes brought to getting in front of the camera. You will never, ever be perfect. It's just a fact of life. Right. You're on video, you're making a weird face, somebody's screenshot. It's how. It's just how it is. But when you are posting, or at least recording consistently, even if you haven't brought yourself to the point where you're publishing content, what I always suggest in order to consistently get better is something I call the 30 and 30 day challenge. And it is open up your phone. Right again. I'll grab my phone in here somewhere.
- [52:28]
A
It's on the couch.
- [52:29]
B
Oh, thank you. Right. Thank you. Thank you. Record on this side. So if you're listening to this podcast, you want to record on the camera that is not with the screen. Record on the camera that's your front facing. Is this your front facing camera that.
- [52:43]
A
I. I don't know if that's. I don't know.
- [52:46]
B
The one that's where you can't see yourself.
- [52:48]
A
I think that is the front facing.
- [52:49]
B
Camera where you can't see yourself. That's the og. That's the one that they advertise. And that way you don't get distracted looking at yourself in the monitor and you're using the best camera and riff on something for 30 seconds. So it could be. It didn't have to be about work. You're trying a great new restaurant, you are excited about your kitchen reno. I don't know, whatever it is, riff about it for 30 seconds and then go back and watch and pick one thing that you want to work on. Maybe it's eye contact, maybe it's energy, maybe it's reducing ums and ahs, whatever the thing is. And then work on that for 30 seconds each, each day until you. You won't have it perfected, but maybe you have your arms sort of getting around it. And then pick the next thing to work on. So maybe the next thing is eye contact. So then work on that until you kind of have your arms around that. And then do that for 30 days and look at the difference between day one and day 30. And you will see, I promise you, you will see a change. And once you have recognized that you can make positive change in your ability to create video and be comfortable on camera, then the confidence starts to build. And that's how you go about making the real change. So it's not just about posting consistently, but it is about doing the thing consistently. And that applies to anything, you know, whatever it is. Right. Doing the thing consistently and working at it to get better.
- [54:11]
A
I'm focused on using my hands more.
- [54:13]
B
There you go.
- [54:13]
A
And then how do you get rid of. I just said, how do you get rid of the ums and the odds?
- [54:19]
B
Totally contagious. I find every.
- [54:21]
A
Every time I was going to ask you about it, I said, um, I just.
- [54:23]
B
Yeah, I find that every time I talk to a client about reducing ums and ahs, they start to come out of my own mouth again. It's contagious. I almost.
- [54:31]
A
You all sit in here. Yes, I was waiting on it.
- [54:33]
B
Okay. But did you notice what I did there? I paused and I swallowed it back. And that's what you have to do. There is a process. Yes. It takes practice. Again, one of the things that's beneficial is record yourself having a conversation. If you're doing a zoom call, record yourself on zoom. It's oftentimes the default setting on zoom. And go back and watch. Not necessarily with the purpose of reviewing the entire call, but seeing when those ums and oz pop up. Are they when you are ad libbing or riffing about something that you don't necessarily feel as knowledgeable about something else? Is it when you are reading more of a script? You know? My God, I almost said it again.
- [55:15]
A
You almost did, yes.
- [55:16]
B
But I paused. So get familiar with where you're most likely to use an um and ah. Then the next thing to do is create. I like to create a bit of a. Almost a physical sensation. So if you feel like you're going to say Amara, tap your leg a couple of times or, or adjust your body, look away from the camera, gather your thoughts and look back at the camera and move on from there. And then once you create that physical sensation, you become more aware of when and how often you are using those filler words and then when you feel one. And this comes with extreme awareness when I mess it up too. But when you feel one beginning to emerge, you can't unring the bell. So don't ring it to begin with. Suck it back in and give yourself a second to compose and then move on.
- [56:10]
A
This is gonna be. So I'm gonna focus on this to make sure I don't do it. And, and so I will. I will not do it. You know, I do. I. I use so almost as. As a replacement for sometimes. And I need to, I need to do better, a better job of that.
- [56:24]
B
Do you start your sentences with so.
- [56:26]
A
So sometimes I do. Sometimes.
- [56:28]
B
Yeah.
- [56:29]
A
And that. Or I'll use the word thing sometimes a little too much. And these are all ums to me, I think.
- [56:35]
B
So wait, how would you use thing?
- [56:36]
A
I'll just. I'll call something a thing instead of calling it what it is.
- [56:39]
B
Oh, okay, got it.
- [56:40]
A
Which is. That was pointed out to me by a friend of mine who listens to the show and he's like, you gotta stop using things so much. And then I paid attention. I was like, I'm using thing way too much. Which is. Which is really. Can be really tough to hear yourself. Yeah, sometimes. Which is. Which is gonna be frustrating. I lost my complete point. I was gonna ask you about something completely different. And I've. I've I've forgotten what.
- [57:01]
B
Okay, we talked about your. Your flaws.
- [57:03]
A
Exactly right. I. I do want to hear about the visibility workshops.
- [57:09]
B
Yeah.
- [57:10]
A
You're doing what. What are those?
- [57:11]
B
Okay, so the visit. When you say visibility.
- [57:13]
A
Yeah, so I've got some notes that you. You have some visit. You do workshops that help attorneys when it comes to their videos and all that.
- [57:20]
B
Okay, I know what you're talking about.
- [57:21]
A
Very good.
- [57:22]
B
Excellent. I do do a live stream on LinkedIn every, every Wednesday, normally at 7pm Eastern, where I go through tips, tricks, tactics, strategies for creating video and getting better on camera. My signature program is something called the Video Authority Blueprint. And that's a 12 session, 3 months ish program that I walk. Mostly solo attorneys. Oh my gosh. I just said it. Did you see it? Oh my gosh.
- [57:51]
A
You didn't swallow it. Yeah. Yes.
- [57:53]
B
Okay, can we edit that out?
- [57:55]
A
No way. No. No way in hell.
- [57:58]
B
I walk them through this three month program that takes them basically soup to nuts for creating video. It teaches them how to become their own video marketing agency. So everything from gear and lighting and setup and camera shot through content creation and your pillars through messaging and speaking effectively on camera and editing and creating a content calendar and distribution and it walks them through all of that. I also am hosting a monthly webinar where I am teaching people the framework for creating effective video. And I just started hosting that, but. Oh my God, I did it again. It is contagious.
- [58:42]
A
Before I remember what I was gonna ask you, but before I get to that though. Yeah, so I'll tease it.
- [58:48]
B
Oh my God. This is. This is like going straight down the grabber.
- [58:53]
A
What? How do people get that? Do you have a domain name? People can go to a website. People can go to.
- [58:59]
B
I do. So my website right now is going through a bit of a revamp. It's Carrie Barrett dot com. I would suggest going to my LinkedIn profile. You can sign up for a free consult call. You can sign up for the webinar there you can get all the information about the live streams as well, along with posting daily content and tips about speaking on camera and creating videos. So LinkedIn right now, anyway, as of this recording is the place. Place to find me.
- [59:23]
A
Very. And it's Carrie with a K. Carrie.
- [59:26]
B
With a K. K E, R, R. Yep. Not Stephanie.
- [59:28]
A
What are your. No, not at all. I introduced myself to Stephanie here at the beginning and I answered to it. You did. And no, you didn't. You didn't correct me, which I was.
- [59:38]
B
I've been called worse.
- [59:39]
A
Becca. Luckily Stepped in and said, that's not Stephanie. That was earlier today. Which was. It was one of those days. Yes. I would ask you about teleprompters because I have recently started using them. I was not super comfortable at first, but I've gotten way more comfortable.
- [59:54]
B
Yeah.
- [59:54]
A
Y. Do you have any, any strong opinions one way or the other?
- [59:57]
B
Oh, I, I love a good teleprompter. One of the things that is. There's two things that it really helps with. It helps with editing because if you can do a video in one take, there is a lot less work on the back end.
- [60:11]
A
So much better.
- [60:12]
B
Oh my gosh. It's a. You will cut your, your process in half in terms of time. The other thing that's great about a teleprompter is that it really allows you to be concise. If you're trying to create a 30 or 60, 60 second video that you're going to be using on any, any platform, LinkedIn or YouTube, whatever. It allows you to make sure that you're not going off on a tangent that you're not using ums and oz. It's very, very clear there are challenges. I have a free. Oh my God. I'm actually, I'm not swallowing them at all. What is going on?
- [60:47]
A
I just love it. We're going to clip this for all your, all your clients.
- [60:50]
B
Please do. Please do. The thing is about the teleprompter. Now I have to get back to where I was. Oh, there is a challenge with speaking conversationally using a teleprompter. That's what the mini course is. What I learned during my time as a broadcaster, which we use teleprompters, aside from breaking news, is pretty much the entirety of the news program is that when we speak, we speak in thoughts generally rather than complete sentences. One of the biggest challenges that goes along with being able to deliver conversationally is the way that we write for the teleprompter. So it is not a virtual white paper. It is not reading newspaper script. Try. If you try to read, pick up a newspaper. Do they have online. Online, they still exist. Pick up a paper and open it up top of fold. No. You are delivering on camera in a way that is entirely different. And the writing is part of it. I call it. It is writing for broadcast. It's writing for the ear versus writing for the eye. And it's an entirely different type of writing. If you are able to write for the ear, it will be much easier for you to deliver in a conversational way. I also like to mark my scripts, and I advise my clients to do the same until they get comfortable with reading from a teleprompter. So what that means is, for example, if there is a word that you want to emphasize, put asterisks around it so that that actually comes up in the teleprompter. And even if your brain is turned off and you're freaking out, you know that you're supposed to emphasize that particular word. If you are, for example, listing items, the three things I learned in yoga, 1, 2, 3. Put an ellipsis between those items so that, you know, you should take a brief pause there. The other thing is that you want to keep your sentences short, sharp, and concise. That usually means if you have more than one and in a sentence, you have two sentences. And it'll be easier for you to deliver in a conversational way if you take those writing examples into effect. Put them into effect.
- [63:01]
A
Sometimes I'll have to mark in there that there is a difficult sentence coming up, because sometimes it's something I will need to say, but the alliteration of it can be tough to get through. And to give myself a warning, I'll have, like, mark in there. I'll use an emoji or something like that just to kind of, hey, it's coming. Be ready for it. Because if I don't. Or sometimes I'll put the emphasis on the wrong word just on accuracy.
- [63:28]
B
You put the emphasis on the wrong syllable.
- [63:30]
A
Yes, exactly. You know, I could. You could ask me to do that 10 times in a row and I would not be able to get. Get. I'd be 0 for 10. That'd be. I. I don't know how you just did that, but I would not be able to. But are there any other tips like that for using teleprompters, though?
- [63:44]
B
Oh, gosh, there's a. There's a million of them. I like to. I like to do something I call emotion mapping, which is if there is a specific sentence that requires a certain type of emotion, I will put an emoji there, a smiley face, a frowny face, whatever it is, so that I know that this particular sentence, there's. There's a beat, maybe the emotion is taking a turn, and I need to take that into account when I am reading. You also mentioned something that I think is really important, which is if there is an element that's going to be a little bit tricky for you to deliver, maybe there's a bit of a tongue twister there, or there's a certain Alliteration. That is hard. Read your scripts out loud. Don't read them in your head. Read them out loud. That is, generally speaking, the only way that you'll find those little sticky spots and be able to practice going through them.
- [64:33]
A
You take the extra few minutes. That's the.
- [64:34]
B
Absolutely. Yep.
- [64:36]
A
So let's end.
- [64:37]
B
Don't. Don't whisper. Actually read it out loud the way that you would read it on camera.
- [64:41]
A
I like that because I probably. I probably whisper. Yeah. So, okay, I'll do that. Let's end on what is. What is. Give me, like, your one big tip that you've not. You've not met, not mentioned. But it comes to video. Either tip or one pet peeve that you have that attorneys do that you got to stop doing. Like, what's. What's one big takeaway for attorneys that. That want to do video.
- [65:01]
B
One big takeaway for attorneys who want to do video is. Gosh, there's. There's a lot. Like, energy is one of the things that I always suggest. But we've talked about that. You made it so that I can't mention that again.
- [65:13]
A
Yes, I squeezed all of the juice out. You sure did.
- [65:17]
B
You sure did. The biggest thing that attorneys struggle with is I hear a lot about time. I hear a lot about tech. Once you understand the tech and really all you need is a face, phone, and voice. That's tech doesn't have to get any more complex than that. Once you have a process and a workflow, that time issue. I can create a video from setting up my studio, writing the script. I've already got hair and makeup done, but, you know, delivering the script, editing the script or editing the video, running it through captions and posting it on LinkedIn from beginning to end. I mean, from real beginning to end and breaking the studio down again. 15 minutes. You can do this in between, between calls. So it's time and tech. But the real issue, when you get down to it, is fear. It's fear of judgment from peers. It's fear, which is the biggest one. It's fear of judgment from clients. But I think the pure thing is. Is even stronger. I know, in fact, that it's stronger. Video is not going anywhere. It is going to become sort of like if you had a company 15 years ago and you didn't have a website, you could still kind of be legit. And nowadays that's not how it works anymore. If you don't have a website, you're not. Video is moving in that direction. You're going to have to master it. The people who are mastering it now are the ones who are going to be crushing you five years from now. So the time best time to do it was yesterday. Second best time to do it is today. And really open up your phone, riff into it for 30 seconds. I know I've already covered this, but I'm going to underscore it's the easiest way to get started.
- [66:48]
A
I love it.
- [66:49]
B
Yeah.
- [66:49]
A
Thank you for doing this, Carrie. Appreciate it.
- [66:51]
B
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
- [67:06]
C
Hey, I've got a question for you. When was the last time you drove over to another law firm near you, sat down over lunch and traded every business tip you've got? Talked about what's working, what's not, and what to do next? No, see, that's what Maxlukhan is for. It's real conversations with law firm owners who are actually doing this building, leading, scaling, and willing to share what's working right now. You could keep doing it alone, but let's be honest, it's slower, harder, and way more expensive than getting in the room and shortcutting the learning curve. As of this recording, we've got 20 seats left to this year's event. Skip the guesswork. Go to maxlawcon.com and grab your ticket before they're gone.