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This is Maximum Lawyer with your host, Tyson Mutrix. Welcome back to another wonderful episode of the Maximum Lawyer podcast. As always, I'm Tyson Mutrix. This is a little bit of a different mix because we had skipped a week because of the holidays. And so I'm basically making up a week so we can give you all as much value as possible. And I think this one's going to be a really good one. I'm be talking about Colby because we had, we had some people from Colby come in and do a training with the firm. And I guess she probably considered a consultant, I guess is what you would consider her. But she was fantastic. It was really, really good, a really good training. So I want to talk about some of the things that I learned. Some of my takeaways, some bitter pills to swallow, I guess is another way of putting it. But really excited. So the team, if you, if you've noticed, if you're watching on YouTube, the background is a little bit different. It's funny, yesterday my team said, well, you're not coming in tomorrow. And I said, what? They're like, well, you're, you know, you're taking off. I said, well, I got, I've got, actually got some recordings I gotta do. Like, well, you can do things for Maxwell if you want, but you're not working. So either. I just saw, I was telling people in circle today because we had our Friday 11:30 call and in, in the association and I was talking about it and I said either, either I did something really, really right or really, really wrong. I think I was more on the right side. They just wanted to give me a day off, which was kind of cool. And so I just said, you know what? I'm not gonna go in the office. I'll just record from home where I set up the studio at home is actually full of some stuff because we're doing a bathroom, master bathroom renovation, which is almost done, but the area where I record is, is occupied at the moment. So. Which is not in the bathroom, by the way, if you want to make those jokes. No, it's a different, different area of my house. So we're in Amy's setup. We, we, we actually set up an office for her which is, it's kind of a cool. So you see the, the background, the wallpaper and all that. That is lots of gold in this, this office where I am currently. So that's why the back room's a little bit different. Her room looks a lot better than what, what my studio looks like. But, but anyways, so let's get back to Colby. And so it's kind of interesting. Here's my history with Colby. I first took the Colby in 2020, so February 2020, and my score was 5,366. And that always bothered me. It really bothered me. I didn't. Didn't feel like it was a 5366. I, you know, I wanted to be something different. It wasn't that because it seemed like everyone else had these scores where they're really on one end or on the other end. And I, it really bothered me. I actually didn't feel like it fit me. Okay, so that is, that's what I. The first test I took. I took another one in March of 2023. All right, so the timing kind of matters, in my opinion. This was February, was of 2020, was right before COVID started. But we knew Covid was coming. All right, I, this is something. I remember talking to Sandy Van at the Zap A Thon out in Scottsdale. She knew about it in, like, December of that year. And so we were. We knew it was coming. The reason why I bring that up is because the consultant, she. Christine, I'll just call her Christine from now on. Christine was great, but she talked about how sometimes when you're in a transition, sometimes they can throw the scores off. That doesn't mean I was in a transition. It doesn't mean I wasn't. March 2023, that was also significant because we were having some changes in the firm. Okay. So In March of 2023, my score was 3,485. Okay. What was interesting is she told us that usually only. Only 10% or less of people that take the test, the. The test is wrong. Okay. Usually the test is spot on. And even when it's wrong, she says there's only a variation of. Of 1. It's very rare to have it change by 2. So remember, my score was 5, 3, 6, 6. And then it changed to 3, 4, 8, 5. So the 5 changed to a 3, the 3 changed to a 4. The. And I'm not going to get into all what all the different categories mean, by the way. I'm just not going to. They do mean different things. I. I can, and I can. I guess I can get into that in another episode because there is going to be probably a follow up to this. But. So the 5 changed to 3, 3 changed to a 4, the 6 changed to an 8, and then the 6 changed to a 5. And you can see in there, when the 5 changes 3, that's a variation of 2. And then when the 6 changed to an 8, that's a variation of 2. All right. Which is outside the norm. So I actually have a follow up meeting with her this following week where, because she's very interested in this, and we're going to have. Have a more, more detailed one on one conversation, which is kind of a cool thing, and I'll be able to report back on that because I think this would be important. But, like, what was said before, the score always bothered me because I didn't. It didn't feel right to me. And so it's like, okay, does this mean I change? Does it. What does it mean that the score changed? Or is the second score more accurate and a more accurate reflection of who I am? Really, really bothered me? Okay. That's one of the things where it's always been on my mind since 2023, so, you know, almost three years. You know, it's. It's been on my mind. And it's really when she started to get into what Colby measures. Okay, this one, I'm not going to go into each individual category because I think this next lesson is more important. Okay. This next lesson is maybe the most important thing. So Colby doesn't measure. Doesn't measure personality. It's not a personality test. I think we call it a personality test. A lot of times. It's not. I wouldn't even call it an assessment because you're not testing intelligence, you're not testing skill, you're not measuring experience, things like that. What Colby measures is how you instinctively take action whenever you're faced with an issue. Okay. So it's about instincts, which is really more deeply rooted. And that's why I'd asked her a question during this. Is this something that it changes over time? Because the reason I was asking that is, like, I wanted to figure out if it made sense for us to have our kids tested, because I said, can you actually test this in kid on kids? And she said, absolutely. The Colby all started where they were doing testing on kids. This all started with whenever they were measuring instincts and all that in children. And I thought that was kind of an interesting thing. So if you've ever had that question, then, yes, you absolutely can. And it's funny because I've always thought of assessments or tests, things like this, where, again, I don't think it's an assessment, but I don't know a better word for it at this point. I always thought, like, view them as, like, snapshots, but it's not really a snapshot. What it really is, and this is something I had to. It was a realization of mine, is that Colby is more of like an energy map. And I'll explain this more, trust me, I'll explain this more in a little bit. But think of Colby as an energy map. Okay? And I'll explain. Like I said, I'll explain this a little bit. But it's funny because in the association, when we have these conversations, formerly the guild, we always have these situations come up where the owner or the managers are running into some sort of an issue with a person. And sometimes they think it's effort, sometimes it could be personality issues. So many different things, right? And the reality of it is it's really. It has to do with alignment. Okay? It has to do with alignment. Doesn't have to do with. Usually doesn't usually. Doesn't usually have to do with effort. It doesn't usually deal with skill level. It really has to do with the alignment in. Where are they putting their energy and what are your expectations of where they're putting their energy and at what times? And all that really has to do with that. And so I mean, that. That, that distinction really matters. And that's part of the reason why. It explains why my. My score felt a little bit wrong. My first score, it felt a little bit wrong. But after having this training, my realization is that the. My score was actually correct, I think, at first. And I'll explain why in a little bit. Christine was. She was not convinced that my. My instincts had changed. Okay. She just wasn't it. She's very curious. That's why she wanted to have this meeting. I'm basically in a free consulting out of this, which is kind of cool. But what she said was some profiles, they're naturally adaptable. So when you see that the scores are somewhat in the middle. 5, 3, 6, 6. That's pretty. The only one where I had a strong one was the three. Okay, That's. So they break them into threes, basically. And so, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. Right? That's. That's how they usually break them down. And so I thought that. I found that really interesting because I'm in the 5, 3, 6, 6. And what she meant was is that the people that have those middle scores, they can typically move up and down the scale, okay. So their instincts don't move, but they're more adaptable. So the adaptability is the instinct. And I'm sure she'll probably. She would probably put this Way better than I'm putting it. But this is my interpretation of it. But the adaptability of the people. Like, my first score is the instinct. And it allowed me to shift dissatisfaction with that initial score into saying, you know what? That's a. That's actually a superpower. It was like this. This thing that clicked. And so I think that I could probably take that test today. And it might. Even if it was a different number, or actually, if it was a different number, I would still think that that was probably the right number. And the reason why is because it depends on where I am right now when it comes to my energy levels and what the situation is, and I adapt to it. So whenever I saw that 3485, that was me adapting in that situation. And so, to me, it naturally fit. It's because I can move up and down that scale. I found that really, really interesting. It also made it easier for me to digest the 5, 3, 6, 6 number. And I don't know why I didn't like the 5366 so much, but I didn't like it. I just didn't like it. I wanted to. I wanted to be on one end or the other, and I just wasn't. And so that. That context does matter. It really does matter. So if you are similar to me, don't let that number bother you, because it can actually mean that you actually have. It's a big strength for you. So let me get back to the energy and the energy placement and what I meant by all that, too. These instincts are about energy, and not. They're not really about preference or skill level, all kind of stuff. Because, like, preference is like, what you like. Okay? Like, that's different. Instinct is like, where your energy naturally goes. Whenever you're under the gun, you're under pressure. And so that really does explain a lot when you understand that fundamental basis of Colby. It explains a ton because it explains why certain tasks feel heavier than they should for you or for your people. It helps you understand why some people thrive whenever there's ambiguity. It helps you understand why some people thrive whenever they have very, very specific instructions. It shows you why some people struggle when they don'. Have very specific instructions. It explains why some people will burn out in certain roles that look perfect for them on paper. Like, we did this thing where we went around, and it was at the end, and she said, tell everyone in the group something you learned about yourself so that they can better work with you. And I can tell you, I don't ever Voice this frustration. Okay, But I'm. This is me. My team might actually hear this. So maybe they'll disagree with me because I don't normally show it, but sometimes if I'm talking to someone and they're over explaining something in my brain, I'm like, I got it. Like, okay, let's move on. I'm done. I don't need any more information. So I told him, I said, I seen bullet points. Give me bullet points. I don't. And don't, don't over tell me something. Just give me the basics. I got it. I've got this ability where I can just bloop. Just give me the bullet points and I've got. I can fill in all the details. It was really funny because Carrie, who is, who's been with us for a while, she's fantastic. She said, you know what? The moment we were talking about scores, she's like, I. I started to understand Tyson more because I understand. So whenever I first started, he would give me instructions, and they were very, very simplified instructions. And she's like, I need more detail. I need more detail. And if I had had her score when she first started, I would have been able to. I would have known, oh, I need to give Carrie more detail. She needs to have like a book to read on things. She's not a bullet point person. I'm a bullet point person. She's more. She needs all the detail to fill in all the context gaps. And so it's really interesting that you, when you know that it really is. So I think it's going to help you with, like engaging with your employees, with your team members, help you understand them and help you reassign some of the roles. Because people, I don't think that they really resist change. I heard this quote once, like, people resist change. They, they, they resist or they don't resist change, they resist being changed. Something like that. And I think that that's right. People are okay with changing. It's just, it's just how you do it. It's how you address it. And you see the same thing with tools like changing, with different softwares and all that. Different. You. You name the vendor, right? It's how you adapt to that change in the firm and how you address it. Which is why we created Becky's list, by the way, so you could find the best vendors. Just little shameless plug. But go to Becklesslisko. But whenever you are looking, let's say you are looking for a new vendor and you're trying to get the team. To adopt that. How you approach it with some team members versus another team member is very different. It's very different. There is no longer this or there never was. Was really. There's not this cookie cutter way of doing it, even though. And this is where I'm gonna get into some of my frustrations near the end with this, because I had some realizations. That's where the bitter pill to swallow for me potentially. But the training made me a little uneasy. And it's. That's not because it challenged me, not because it challenged people, it's really because it challenged policies. And this is where I'm getting a little bit of my bitter pill frustration. Because we do have uniform rules. The problem with uniform rules is they really do sort of. They assume uniform instincts, which is not true at all. Right. People don't operate uniformly. People don't have the same instinct scores, if that's what you. The way you want to think about Colby. That. So that was a really tough realization. You have this leadership tension between consistency versus effectiveness and fairness versus fitness. It has me really rethinking some things. I'll give you an example. This kind of came up during the training where we have office hours, and some people don't like office hours in the firm. Most people do, by the way. But the way some people are wired instinctually, they don't want the. They don't want it. They won't. They don't want office hours, but other people do. And that's where it's kind of. There is a lot of friction there, because I've got. I've got something that I think really works when it comes to office hours. But if I let the person. Let's say there's one person, because there was really one major person was vocal, but we had a couple people that are not huge fans of office hours. And that's because I understand their energy a little bit more when it comes to their instincts. But if I let them go outside the rules and if they violate the rules, so we essentially wouldn't be violating the rules anymore because we would change them. But the people that need the office hours, if they're. They're sticking to the rules, then it's going to interrupt their work. Okay. For the sake of these other people. So that's. That's kind of this. This give and take and this tension, and I'm not really sure how we're going to deal with that yet. Nothing's going to change until we've. We've really fully thought it through. But I. What I can't do is sacrifice what we're currently doing and sacrifice, you know, the work of other people just because a couple people want some changes. I can't really do that. But we're going to do our best to align the roles and strengths as much as possible, because it's going to improve productivity, it's going to improve happiness, people are going to really like it, it's going to improve retention. Lots of things. There's lots of benefits to it. So we'll. We'll do what's best for our team, and that'll be really, really. I mean, it's gonna be good for them, could be good for us, but because I think we've all seen that role that looks just perfect. On paper, it looks fantastic, but unfortunately, it's draining that person slowly, slowly, over time, and eventually they. It becomes no longer a good fit for them. So what is great about. Great about Colby, and I'm glad I have a better understanding of it now, is that now that we have a better understanding, we can understand the instinctive energy, and we understand that uniformity, it feels less important now than designing things for effectiveness. This. And. And I think that that's something I. I'm really excited to see how people react to this in the association and because what's kind of cool about the associations, you have these people that go and, you know, we'll talk about things, you know, maybe in a mastermind, it could be in, you know, just at the conference, Max Law Con, or, you know, talking out in the halls, and, you know, they go out and adopt these things. It's. It's really good testing ground, which I think is really, really cool, where we can. I can see what other people are doing, they can see what I'm doing, and we can all kind of work together. That Rising Tides approach, I think that's kind of a cool thing. So this is one of those topics, like. Because I hear people talk about disc and other things, I think it's one of those topics that's really, really cool, I think, because we. We do Enneagram, too, which I think there's some. Some value in all in that as well. So I think these. Each of these tests, they have value for the. I mean, I don't know all the tasks. Tests, but I know a lot of them. I think they all have value. They just have different. They're different tools for different things. And so I wouldn't say Colby is better than disc is better than Enneagram. I think they're just different tests, different assessments, difference. They measure different things. So what we have to know though, is we've got to design and we'll probably do some of these other. Well, I'll probably test out disk too, just to see what, you know, what that information gives us. Because I know that Brian Mitten is someone that is, you know, a big, big believer in disk. But what we have to know is we have to design these rules around the strengths instead of control. A big mistake that I see, and I've seen this since the beginning, ever since I heard about the attorney that made their. Not to call them out. I'm not going to mention their name, but they, they made their, their employees put their phones in their lockers at the beginning of the day and they couldn't get them out. And unless it was on a break or lunch or at the end of the day. That's control. That's. That's what that is. It's still crazy to me, but you have to design these rules around strengths and not control. So, like, think about, like, ask some questions. You know, where do people stall for no obvious reason? Where do they move fast without really being asked to do things? You know, which roles exist to make management easier and which ones you know are not really working. Right. So I think that's kind of an interesting thing, especially when it comes to management. Like what are. What exists to make things easier, management easier, and what things or make compared to like not making it better. Right. So you're making management easier is one thing, but making management better is different. And there's a big distinction there. So maybe ask these questions as to what rules you have in place that just makes management easier. Okay, but not. Doesn't make it better. Okay. So. Because I think once, once we kind of get this dialed in a little bit better, it's. It's going to make effort, not b. Is, you know, hard. I guess I don't know a better way of putting it. I think we're going to see probably increased output, which I think is interesting. You're going to see a decrease in friction. Now when I talk about that friction, I do talk about you need to naturally create, increase some friction. And that's from a world without email. There is some friction you need when it comes to communication. But whenever friction in the role itself and the tasks themselves, that's a little bit different because what we're ultimately trying to do is trying to increase the culture. Culture is really, really important. So we want to improve the culture, not increase the culture we want to improve culture. I think that we should always be focused on that. And part of that is decreasing the friction in those tasks. It's really important. So it's not really about controlling chaos or anything like that. It's really about creating some intentional flexibility in the roles. I think that's an important part of this, too. Instead of having these rigid rules, having some intentional flexibility could be pretty important. But, yeah, so I think that this is really, really important. I think that law firms are generally built on rules and precision. That's a big part of some of the things that law firms are built on. There really are lots of rules, right? We. We have rules that we're guided by. We have rules of evidence. We've got statutes, things like that. We create all these rules and policies and procedures in our firms. And so it makes over standardization really tempting. It really does. But what really matters the most, if you think about it's judgment and initiative. It's really judgment and initiative. So if you can kind of figure that part out that matters most, and you combine that with, you know, how do certain people instinctually react to certain situations, I think what you're going to see is just a lot less burnout in your firms, and you're going to see a lot less exhaustion in you and in your team, and you're going to see a lot more alignment in your goals. I don't want to overstate this, because I think that this is sometimes. This is sometimes what happens, and it doesn't matter what it is. You name the tool, right? You know, if you. You could go on Becca's list, and it could say, you know, this is the best software for this. Right? This is the silver bullet. It's not true. Colby's not a silver bullet either. Like I said, it's one assessment of many that does one thing. So don't think that you're gonna have. You're gonna bring on Colby, and Colby's gonna solve all of the firm's problems. That is not what I'm saying at all. I think you should take the information that you get from it, use it the way it's supposed to be used, and that's it. Okay? It's not a magic elixir, okay? So don't think of it that way. It's going to. Instead, it's going to be a tool that you use. It's gonna allow you to stop blaming people for doing things inc. Or, you know, thinking it's one thing when it's actually another thing. It's going to give you additional information to see, okay, maybe their energy is better placed over here and not over there. Or maybe this person. It's simply an instruction issue where we're not giving them enough detail in this role because they just, they're more of a fact finder. They need to know more about this particular project and we need to give them more instructions. What was interesting about. So the last number is implementer. And I don't want to get off too far off track, but something I learned was implementer is not what I thought it was. Implement is not like you take it, you take something and you implement it into the whatever. Right. So what I always thought it was is that we have this new system that we create and the implementer is really good about implementing that into the system, you know, into the firm. And that's not at all what it is. It is actually the implementor. So it's not implementer she made. Christine pointed that out. It's an implementor or it's that person's ability to. And I don't know how this makes any sense with the name, but whatever, it's that person's ability to actually interact with the. In the real world. So the tactile world, like touch and move things and all that. And I was like, wow, wow, that's really interesting. So I'm a six on that 5366, but I can, I can also. That's one of those ones I think I can move up and down that scale. And I'd asked her about, well, does that mean like, you know, building software and all that? And she, she said maybe a little bit, but not really. They're really talking about what's happening in the real world. Things you can see, touch, taste, all that kind of stuff, which I thought was. That was really interesting, really interesting distinction. So I think this is something that I may talk about at Max Law Con this year. I don't know. It's part of this conversation I'm going to have with her this week. We'll see. Because I. Part of this. I may just, you know, have conversations with people in the hall out of Max Lockhon that may just be what, what I do, but. Or it's something that may come up during Masterminds and all that. It's, it's a, I think it's a really cool topic. I'm very curious to see how other people are using it because I know there's a lot of value and we've been using Colby for a while. And I know that Amy and Kristen, our firm, they use it way. They think about it way more than I do. But I'm. I. This is just sort of a wake up call for me. I'm glad we did the training because it's a wake up call for me to use it more. And so I'm meeting with that with Christine again this week. I'm very curious. It's not like I need the answers. I'm very curious. She's very curious, which makes me excited. So we're both very curious about, you know, what we're going to learn. I think important lesson from all this, though, you don't need to redesign everything overnight. I don't plan on redesign everything overnight. I'm thinking about everything. But the big thing is identifying these energy patterns because once you do, I. You're not gonna be able to unsee them, I promise you. Because we started, we have in Click Zoho Click, which is where we chat with each other, each other, each other's numbers. And you're like, oh, that makes complete sense when you look at it more. And so I'll make sure I pay more attention to that because we've had those in there for a while. But really interesting. I think it's interesting stuff. But identify those energy patterns. I think it's gonna, you know, take you a really long way. I really do. I think it's really, really important. But just remember, it's. Maybe the goal isn't to make everyone work the same way. Maybe it's just to let people work the way they're wired. I'm going to say that part again because I think it's really important. I don't want to get that. Get lost. When you're dealing with your team, maybe the goal is to make everyone work the same way. Maybe it's to let people work the way they're wired. That makes it more difficult for us to manage. However, it's probably gonna make us more effective as a team. Okay. Really, really important. So. All right. Just. I'm not getting paid to do this. This isn't a plug for Colby or. This is a plug for Colby. I'm not getting paid for this, so. But I just want to say I can't recommend Colby enough. It's K O L B E, in case you don't know. That'll also be in the show notes, but I don't have a referral link or anything like that. If I, if I can get one before this goes live, then maybe I'll. Maybe I'LL put one in there, but I don't have a referral link. I don't even know if they have a referral link, so don't worry about that. But I just want to make sure that I passed this on because I think it was a really great training. And if you have questions about the training itself, we did have to pay them to do it. They have different levels of trainings that you can do. They do it via Zoom. So if you want, if you have more questions about that shoot, feel free to shoot me a text. Text line is in the show notes. So 314-630-9538 but it's also in the show notes. But. All right, have a great week, everybody, and we'll be talking to you. Sam.