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If your firm feels one good decision away from a breakthrough, then this is for you. We're hosting our first mastermind of 2026 in Phoenix on February 26th and 27th. And it's two days designed to actually move your firm forward and grow who you are as a leader. Day one is a full day of hot seats where you break into groups and work through the real problems in your business. Day two is our wellness workshop, featuring sessions that help you boost your energy, lower stress, and think more clearly. We have Jocelyn and Erin Freeman, host of a top 10 marriage podcast and masters in psychology, teaching relationship skills that you'll use at work and at home. A lunch and learn on habit formation with Tyson and more. View the full event details and grab your seat@maxwell events.com.
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This is Maximum Lawyer with your host, Tyson Mutrix.
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Welcome back to Maximum Lawyer Live. I'm Tyson Mutrix and today I'm talking about something that we're, most of us probably go through at some point in our careers. Unless you are just a true solo and you played on staying a solo forever and that is hiring associates. It is something that I understand that completely get. It is a very difficult process for some of us. It is. I think actually, I think for most of us, I think actually finding good talent is really good. But that's actually not. Finding the talent's not what I'm talking about today. Today I actually want to talk about the, like, what reasonable expectations are when it comes to onboarding the attorneys. That is where I think there are a ton of failures. And it's, it's really in a failure expectations. That is, that is probably the biggest part of this is that there's a massive failure of expectations. And I think that, and that's why I wanted to talk about this today because I, I talked to a lot of attorneys and the hire does not work out for one reason or another. And it usually happens very quickly. And that's usually because, or at least the seeds are planted very early because the expectations of the hiring attorney are way too high for, for what they should expect of the associate themselves. Yeah. And if you just think, if you think about just generally, not just in law firms, but actually 50, in all companies, 50% of employees leave within 18 months. Okay, so think about that. Fifty percent of employees leave within 18 months. That's an insane number. That is an absolutely insane number. So the, the deck is already stacked against us. Okay? It really is. And so our onboarding has to be on point. It really does. We also have to have the right expectations of our people. And one of the fundamental misunderstandings comes down to output versus capacity. Okay? So what you're doing is you're actually buying future capacity, okay? You're not buying instant capacity. Okay? You're not. You're not buying instant output. You're. You're hiring for something in the future. That's a really important thing. When you. When you are hiring, you're not hiring for something. It's like you're hiring an answering service, and the answering service is going to be able to instantly get up and going and start answering the phone, right? That's not what you're doing. You're hiring an employee that has to learn about your core values, and it's got to learn about your systems, and they've got to learn about how you do certain things versus how they used to do certain things. So they have to unlearn some things. There is. Especially when it comes to attorneys. Usually we're having them do a lot of. Lot of things. Okay? We're having them do. They're responsible for many things. Just if you think about one of our litigation attorneys, like, they're. They're having to, you know, if they don't have any experience with. They're having to learn this for the first time or they're having to learn it the way we do things. Okay. How do you. How do you conduct depositions at our firm? We do ours a very specific way. That's why we put them through a very specific deposition training. How do you deal with Ren Discovery? Like, we deal with. I'll give you a prime example of the way we might deal with written discovery versus another firm. There are some people that have joined our firm and they had worked at a firm where you object to everything. We take it to a completely different approach. We say, that is a waste of time. It's completely a waste of time. We object to the things that only we think are objectionable and otherwise we don't object to it. That's. That's our approach. Other firms, other attorneys take a completely different approach. I don't believe in pointless fights. It's just the reality of it. Let the other firms waste their time doing those things. That's. That's the whole thing for me. So. But. So they had to learn depositions. They have to learn written discovery, negotiation skills, pleadings. So actually, like, pleadings practice writing, you know, responding motions for summary judgment. Like, there's all these other. All these different things that they have to do that to learn. Okay. And I Just named a few, right? There's many, many more. And to fully expect them to step into a position because I, it's funny, I talk to so many people and they're, they're asking well, how, how long's your onboarding process? And the, just like the basic stuff, it's two weeks. Like the, just the very basic learning systems learning going through our, our company manual, which is on Zo people like all of that. It's two weeks and I can tell you who because we can see, we can track progress on each one who, like, who's gone through it all that we have like a whole onboarding like course that we put people through. If you, if you, you, if you've kind of skipped through it, I know you're not going to do well. Okay. But the, to me, the, I wouldn't say the longer the better, but the deeper into the two weeks that they go, the better usually. So. But I talked to several attorneys where they are, you know, one day of onboarding and I just, it's crazy to me that you would expect someone to on day two, go straight into, start doing the job. Like, how is that even, that's not even possible. If you think about yourself like stepping into a completely brand new role, new people. You don't even know everyone's names, right? You don't, everyone's names. You don't know what their positions are, what they do, all of that. And then you're expected to do a job on files that you are just looking at, you're trying to get up to speed on. Like imagine. So whether you do, you know, personal injury or estate planning, whatever it is, but imagine you're handed a file for the first time, okay? You're handed a file. It's not right from the beginning, you're getting it in the middle of it. Like, how long is it going to take you to get up to speed on that file? Okay. And then multiply that by the number of files and that's just learning the file. That's not even learn how to do the work. That's, that's learning how to do like actually what's on that, that, that matter. So if we kind of start with that basic fundamental understanding of output versus capacity. So when you, when they first join the firm, their output is going to be very little. Okay. So you're going to have, they're going to have capacity later, but their, their output is going to be very, very, very low. At least it should. So if you kind of think about, okay, what is like what is reasonable in the first 30 days, right? What is, what is something we can actually reasonably expect them to, to know. All right, so learning firm systems and then sort of the case flow, right? Understanding how the, so whether it's caseload or matter flow, right. If you're, you're doing transactional stuff like so if it's, if it's a matter like just understanding the flow is a really important part of it. So sitting them down and saying hey, this is how we do things from start to finish just, and actually having the conversation. And you should really, if you can mix in face to face and virtual and so all the audio visual in person, so reading like all. There's several studies on what helps people retain information and mixing in those different things is really, really important. But so, so learning from systems and caseflow, understanding the decision making structure. All right, so and I, I encourage you to flatten the decision making processes structure as much as you can. Meaning letting as many people at the lower levels make decision possible. Really encourage that. But that's another topic for another day. But really understanding the decision making structure, that's part of what they should be figuring out the first 30 days. And by the way, if you want to create some sort of template out of this where like okay, you, you create your own like checklist. Okay, did they do this in the first 30 days? Five feel free. Go ahead and do that because I'm giving you what I think is reasonable and you could sort of use this as a benchmark for, for whether or not they're on track. Also in the first 30 days, observing how like what quality, like how quality is defined. Like what makes what one for us, what makes a good case. But then also what, what means? Like how do we know we're doing a good job on this file, right? So how is that defined? And they should be asking lots of questions. Okay? So if they're not asking lots of questions, you need to be prodding and encouraging them to ask lots of questions. Sometimes people, there's lots coming at them and they kind of freeze. So it's not that they don't have questions and they don't want to ask questions is that they can't think of those questions at the time. So give them a notepad or tell them to write it on their computer and say listen, I understand that you might have questions as you go. I want you to write all these down so we can address these in between. Okay. And you don't have to be doing all the training by the way. I think you know that by now. But so someone else could be answering these questions. But just make sure that they are writing these down because they're gonna have questions and if they're not writing them down, they're not going to remember to ask them. So make sure that that's important. So a structured onboarding is really important. I can't stress that at all. Having a structured onboarding, really, really important to success. So those are some of the things attempt, really understand the first 30 days, okay. And I, I think if you are someone, here's some unreasonable expectations in the first 30 days. Having them make decisions on their own, probably unreasonable. Okay? Unless it's a really basic decision. But having full independent decision making in the first 30 days, not reasonable. Anticipating. This is a big one. Anticipating unwritten preferences, okay? So anticipating that they're going to understand what shouldn't be, shouldn't, shouldn't be done. Like the unwritten rules. You can't expect that. You just can't. And then here's the one you're gonna hate to hear. I'm sorry, but it's true. Don't expect some meaningful reduction in your workload. You are probably. Your expectation should be you're going to have an increase in your workload at the beginning and then it'll start to taper off over time. In the 30 days, you should expect zero meaningful reduction in your workload. That's just how it is then. So what should be happening in those first 30 to 90 days? And by the way, in the first three, in the first 30 days, it's okay to hand them some projects and say, hey, work on these things. And then you, you won't supervise it completely reasonable to. Because they're learning the job. As long as someone is looking over their shoulder and, and actually saying, oh, we do things this way or great job. Positivity is a really powerful tool, by the way. I use it on a regular basis. I also use it whenever I'm coaching and I'm talking about both, both coaching people in the gill. I guess in the association I almost slipped up in the association which if you ever heard we've renamed the guild the Maximum Lawyer Association. The association, it's called the association by Maximum Lawyer actually. And we'd love to have you. But whether I'm coaching people in the association or if I am actually coaching one of our kids teams, Positivity, very, very powerful tool. They use it in aviation too. Where they want to get, to get the confidence built up is what they want. Oh, you're doing a really good job there. Like, I love how you're keeping the plane level. Right? There's. So you, you highlight the, the positive things you're doing. So not the results. It's actually if you look at the product goals versus process goals. So you, you and you complement the process and you highlight the process versus, you know, say, oh, you did a great job on that, getting that settlement. Like, there's like, I what the way you negotiated that. Awesome job, excellent work. Like, so that's, that's what I'm talking about. But back to back on track here. So what should be happening in those first or what. When it comes to the first 30 to 90 days, that's where you're really getting into that supervised execution where they're, they're doing these tasks and then you're supervising it. So they're, they're starting to make some of these independent decisions. They're starting to do things, but it's still being supervised. All right. I think, I think in the, after about 30 days, you can start to see them draft some motions. You might even have them draft some very basic pleadings in the first 30 days. But like, especially if they've got years of experience, I think that that's reasonable. But still you're going to be supervising these, these are things you're going to be supervising discovery, I think in the. After about 30, 30 days. So those 30 to 90 days, starting to draft some discovery and everything and then maybe sort of handle some narrow, pretty narrow, well defined tasks. I think that that's reasonable. And this is where they're going to start to understand the why and not just the how. So here's why we do these things. And that way they can start to explain these things to other people as to why we're doing it this way, not that way. That is, that's where they're really starting to get that deeper understanding. Okay. That, that's where. It's where they're starting to see this is the, this is the way we do things here. I think some, still some unreasonable expectations in the first 30 to 90 days is expecting them to do things, fat things fast, expecting them to exercise perfect judgment on a file and, and really taking over full ownership of files. That's not a reasonable expectation. Things take over a couple files maybe, but really have to dip their toe into things. You're having them fully take over all the files. Not super reasonable at that point. Just not. Okay. And then I'd say, you know, after about, at around six months or so. So I think what you can start to expect then is competence within all the firm systems. Okay. You're still going to have some, probably some errors, but you're going to have fewer rewrites, fewer corrections. At that point they're going to be able to routinely spot issues. So issue spotting, really important. They're going to be able to identify those at around the six month mark and then ownership of certain categories of work. So I can do this, I can do written discovery. I, I can, I can take that on, I can take on depositions. Like these are things I can do at this point. So you're taking on maybe not all of the role, but you're taking on certain categories of the role. So I don't think you're fully going to expect that they're going to be into all of those things at that point. Don't at this point expect owner level judgment. Okay. I have one attorney who her parents own, own. Own a big business and so they, She's a pretty good understanding and she's had a pretty good understanding of that owner level judgment. But most people don't have that. Okay. It's just one of those things where some never get it. But expecting them to have that same level of judgment that you have, it's not reasonable.
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Just, it's a, it's a different view. I don't think you can really under expect them to understand at six months that, that risk management, you know what I mean? Where like on a personal injury case, all right, maybe we shouldn't take on that case because yeah, liability might be good, but our risk is really high on this and here's why. So maybe not take that case or you know, what risky case, but the upside is really good on this. Liability is tough, but you know what, it's worth taking it on just in case. I don't think you can expect them to have that, those instincts at that point. So. And then another one is, you know, I don't think you should expect them to protect your margins. Okay. It's a little easier for them to spend that money. And so having them by, by six months, they're not going to learn. They're probably not going to know maybe we should spend money on this or not many times people see the money coming in and not the money going out, so they're not gonna think to protect the margin. The margins, they're just not. Okay, all right, let's talk a little bit about skill gaps versus expectation gaps. Okay? So this is a little bit different from what we're talking about, because skill gaps can be different based on their experience when you hire them. Right? So this is, this is. This can be a little different. See, what's interesting, too, is where I've struggled a little bit, if I'm being honest, is we hire people with experience and we expect the skill. So our expectations high, but their skill isn't nearly as high as what we expect, as what we were expecting. And I know I'm not alone in that, where, you know, if you've been out for four years, I fully expect that you have. If you tell us, because we had this on multiple occasions where they're in litigation roles, been doing it for four years, so my expectations are pretty high. But then the skill. There's a big skill gap. So we've seen that on several occasions. And so that's. That could be a. That can be an issue. And that's. That's more on us than it is on them, probably where we. We've got to ask more questions. So when some of the things you have to do is you have to document your standards, okay. And then make sure where you model that for them, and then you, you reinforce it. So you, you have all your standards documented like, so you use job scorecards, and then you go into more detail when it comes to your. Your office manuals and everything. And then you show them how to do it right? So you, you, you tell them what they're supposed to do, you show them how to do it, and then you watch them do it, and then you, you correct any mistakes or you support any. You give them positive reinforcement whenever they do it right? So that's, that's really how you should be handling those situations. That being said, so one of the things I've kind of left out to this point is I, I had a pause because I was thinking. Kind of thinking about Jason Self. What he talks about is, I think another one of the major errors that we. That we've not talked about yet is that the ability of the brain to build up, manage one thing at a time. And what we do is we throw all of these different things at the, at the person, and we fully expect them to just absorb it all. And, and the more you can minimize how much you're throwing at them at one time, the better. The more they're gonna to learn, the faster they're gonna learn. Okay. Makes me think about the Brene Brown quote for some reason that the. The clearest kind unclear is unkind. So the clearer you can make it for them, the simpler you can make it for them. That's the kind way of doing things. The unkind way is you, you just, you, you have unclear messaging, you throw a bunch at them and not the, not the best way of doing things. So, so if you have, if you've noticed that you have, you're having associates leave or if you're having a terminated associates, okay? Some of this may have to do with you're having moving targets. That creates a lot of anxiety and paralysis, okay? It really does. If they've got, they've got moving targets. The way the phrasing we use is that you gotta know where the goal posts are, okay? So make sure they know where the goal posts are. Don't move the goalpost. That is a really, really important part of this. If you, if there's role ambiguity, it is one of those leading predictors of, of early departure. It really is where if you, if people don't know what they're supposed to do, okay? Or if they don't know what the targets are, they're probably going to leave. This is what's going to happen, okay? So make sure you define all of that as much as possible. So make sure that you are taking as you. As the owner or whoever is in charge of the onboarding, okay? They've got to take responsibility of defining what success looks like at the 30 day mark, the 90 day mark, the 180, 80 day mark, and then thereafter, okay? So you gotta have a training infrastructure. You have to have some sort of feedback cadence. So you have to have some sort of feedback loops built in. Having those things is absolutely important, okay? Because I mean field onboarding and this is something you gotta take on as an owner. Failed onboarding is a leadership failure, plain and simple, okay? If you don't have good onboarding, it's on you as the leader, okay? So that's something you need to take complete ownership on, okay? All right. So if you think of it, if we're going to break down like the associate model, kind of the mental model, okay? So if you kind of think about, there's really kind of three stages. The associate sort of starts as like, as an observer. They're just in a room. That's why, that's why you really shouldn't expect them to do a lot of output. They're just kind of there, okay? And then they're sort of like this assisted operator where they're, they're kind of helping out here and there and then eventually they, they turn to that independent contributor okay, so there's really three stages. Each stage has different expectations, each stage has different problems. But if you expect stage three behavior from someone that's in stage one, that's on you. It's not on them. Okay, that's on you. It's not on them. But so if, if you want instant relief with something, hire an independent contractor. And that's what, that's what those types are for. But if you want some sort of long term leverage, you need to accept that short term friction. Okay. You really have to understand that and you have to have your expectations right. Onboarding and really hiring is planting the tree. Okay. So you have that layer of capacity. All right. That's all I have for you today. Hopefully you got something from this episode. Hopefully I've shifted some of your expectations in a way where you do a better job of onboarding and you do a better job of retaining your people. So that's my goal. But have a great week everybody. We will see you. Make sure you check out the association with Maximilian Maxmore.com make sure you check out Becca's list to find out the best vendors and the worst vendors. But to find the best vendors for you, go to Becca's list co and hopefully some of you will join us out in Phoenix where we've got the Phoenix mastermind. Make sure you go to maximum lawyer, max lawevents.com Sign up there. We would love to have you out there. It's gonna be a great time. This is going to be, this is, this may be the most exciting one that we've done, at least for me personally. So hopefully you make it out there and so go to Max Law events. I got. But hey, have a great week everybody. We'll see you.
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Before you go, quick shout out to Becca's list if you've ever hired a vendor for your law firm and immediately thought, yeah, that wasn't it, this exists for you. Becca's list is a curated list of companies that work with law firm owners. No paid placements, no random recommendations, just real reviews from law firm owners who have already learned the hard way. If you want to see what's working for other firms and help us grow becaslist to the largest place for law firms to find trusted Answers, head to BeccasList Co and leave your first review today.