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- [00:01]
Host (Rise Up Media Ad)
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- [01:01]
Tyson Mutrix
So what are you waiting for?
- [01:02]
Host (Rise Up Media Ad)
To learn more about how Rise Up Media can transform your firms, visit riseup media.com max law and rise is spelled with a Z. Riseupmedia.com max law
- [01:20]
Danny Decker
this
- [01:21]
Tyson Mutrix
is Maximum Lawyer with your host, Tyson Mutrix.
- [01:29]
Narrator/Intro Voice
Quick heads up before we jump into this week's episode. Today's conversation is a little different from our typical Tuesday episode format. Instead of Tyson behind the mic as the host, you're going to hear him on the other side of the table as the guest. This episode originally aired on the Marketing Simplified podcast with Danny Decker of Spotlight Marketing and Branding. And the conversation was too good not to share with you here. All right, let's get into it.
- [01:53]
Danny Decker
All right guys, welcome back to Center Stage Podcast. My name is Danny Decker and have a really great guest here today. Actually returning guest, Tyson was with us last year as well, some of you may remember. So, Tyson Mutrix, welcome to the podcast. Tyson is the founder of a PI firm in St. Louis as well as the founder of Maximum Lawyer, which is a coaching and mastermind community for law firm owners. So, Tyson, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us.
- [02:18]
Tyson Mutrix
Thanks, Danny. I appreciate you coming back. I remember the last one after I got done, I'm like, that felt, that felt great. Like we had, I thought we had a pretty good vibe. So hopefully we can, hopefully we can. We didn't set the bar too high. Hopefully we, you know, it's just right for people. Hopefully we're not, we're not too underwhelming. On this one, I think. But I really did enjoy the last show, so thanks for having me back on.
- [02:37]
Danny Decker
No, for sure. And you know, we don't honestly do a ton of repeat guests, but we hopped off that episode and I made a note. I was like, man, that was fun. We got to get Tyson back. And so, so, so we made it happen. So, so, so listen, last time you were here, I asked you to start just by talking a little bit about your background as far as your firm. Right. Your PI firm that you've built. Because I think that gives some important credibility. Like there's a lot of folks that are offering advice about law firm building and management, all this. And I think it's important to recognize, like, there's a difference. You know, there's experience gained when you actually run the thing yourself. And you've done that and you've built a super successful firm. So we don't need to go through the whole thing because folks can just refer back to, to that last episode and we'll link it in the show notes. But do just give us the quick overview. But what's going on in your law firm? Maybe what's changed in the last nine months since we last spoke?
- [03:27]
Tyson Mutrix
Yeah, that's an interesting one when it comes to what's changed, because I'm not a huge, I love change itself. I'm not a huge fan of like massive changes unless you absolutely have to. So what, what has changed? I know our firm has definitely grown. We've added some, A few people. We've added a couple new attorneys since then. So that's, that's been kind of nice. Yeah. We still have our, our offices in St. Louis and Columbia and we've added a few more. So we've got this 10, 10 year plan, which is it ends in 2032. So January 1st of 2032, where we want to, we want to have resolved a case, which means settled or taking a trial in every state. So we. I know we've added probably about four new cases, four new states since then, so that's pretty good. So that part's. I think that part's deep, different. But otherwise no major changes. Thank goodness. Knock on wood. But no, no major changes since last year.
- [04:18]
Danny Decker
Love that. So, so then, just a quick snapshot. What does the team look like? Like, how big are you guys right now?
- [04:26]
Tyson Mutrix
It's. It's always an interesting question. I do get it quite a bit because I. There's two things I want to say about it because we're right around 22 but it always fluctuates so between 22, 25. But what my, what I always think is kind of funny about this question. It doesn't matter how big the team is. I think a lot of people think, oh, 50 people, 100 people, 200 people right now. It does not matter. It is. I am tinkering with an idea that I'm not ready to reveal yet, but I'm thinking of this, this thing that I've been playing around with that would allow you to do it with zero attorney or zero people. And I, I think that's going to be fun whenever I get done documenting all of that. Because I do think you could do it right now with zero people, which is sort of insane. But I don't think that we're at the stat at the level of tech now where we can do it fully, like be good at it fully and have no people. But so right. I think we're right around 22, I think.
- [05:26]
Danny Decker
Love it, love it. And honestly, it's, it's, it's funny that you say that because that kind of tees up one of the things I wanted to get in, into with you. And I know, you know, you guys, your group and you specifically have really done a lot around AI and automations and efficiency. And I assume, I'm going to assume that's kind of what, what you're alluding to. And so, so let's just, let's just start there. You know, talk, talk, talk about, you know, how you guys have approached AI, maybe both philosophically, but then also, I know you've put a lot of, a lot of time into, into, into researching and implementation and really have it pretty deeply integrated in your firm. So, so start there. How, how do you approach it? Like, is this something you spend, you know, X amount of hours on, every single day working on AI. But how do you think about AI as it relates to your law firm?
- [06:13]
Tyson Mutrix
I'd say if I'm not working on something with AI every day, I'm at least thinking about it for several hours because it is, that's one of the things when you say that when we started it. I think the mistakes that I made whenever I was starting is I wanted to jump in and tackle really big things. That's what I want to do at first. And I think that that's probably a mistake in hindsight because those things typically break and the technology has been changing so rapidly. If you tackle the big things, the big things are going to be easier to solve I think down the road. So the more the approach. So our cto, his name's Kashif. And so Kashif and I, we've been taking more of a lower level approach. We're the things on the bottom end that are just easy like low hanging fruit. And I use this as a really basic example. For example, like when we have a car crash case, we always want to get the weather data. Okay, so what time did we like all of it when it comes to the weather data. So when did the, the sun come up? When did the sun go down? All right, was it raining outside? All, all of those things, right. Temperature. Because a lot of that can matter when it, whenever it really comes to any injury case, if it was outside, it can matter quite a bit. Things like that done with AI easily, boom, you, you can go capture that information. Doesn't take a human to do it. So really low level things like that is where you can get the most gains, where you're freeing up your time. Let's say you just take like the weather data. You probably take you five minutes to do that. You look it up really quickly, but you compound that over every single case and every small task like that you're going to see massive gains. Whereas like the bigger stuff, like we've, we've tinkered with a lot of the bigger stuff, which is harder to achieve. It takes a really long time. You don't get those instant gains that you get with like the low hanging fruit. And that's where like getting the team adoption, that's it's hard to do whenever it's a big change. But if you do, if you show them instant instantly, hey, this is how we're getting this improvement here, here and here. It's a lot easier to get adoption.
- [08:13]
Danny Decker
That's really smart. I honestly I'd not thought of, thought of it from that sort of standpoint of like, hey what, what are some little quick wins? There's a lot less to break, right? Like I imagine that, that, that weather note taking, whatever you know, zap you've got set up, I imagine that's not going to break and if it does break, it's not going to take 100 other things down with it. That's really smart.
- [08:33]
Tyson Mutrix
Yeah, absolutely. Like one of the, one of the things we have not touched yet and that's the actual acquisition of medical records. It's a, it's a really big undertaking because like we like, I mean I don't get paid by Yoshi so I'll just give them a free plug. Yosiyers they're an amazing company and they do an incredible job of getting our records. I'm not touching that unless I absolutely have to. I'm just not going to. They do such a good job of it and it's such an undertaking, major undertaking. We have, we have played with other things that have been bigger tasks that we've been able to accomplish to a certain level that we've, we've sort of hit some roadblocks. For example, like completing discovery. Like we can answer discovery with AI now to a pretty fairly accurate level, but not, it's not quite to the standard we want. Like we can get it to right around, I say about 85 to 90%. It's close, but it's not quite as good as we want it because the, the goal, the goal with that is that it's done and, and completed, sent for signature for by our client, everything. So we need 100%. I mean if not, if not like 99%, there's got to be a higher level. So we're not quite that quality. But it's, that's been one of those ones that's been a tough, tougher one because it has to go through, has access all the files, all the documents. It's gotta, it's got to know what's important, what's not important. So the guard rails on it are a little, little trickier to, to, to design on that one. But with that one it's one of those things where we kind of promised that early on and the team's like well when's it going to get done? When's it going to get done? When's it going to get done? Tested out with them and it just, just didn't work out. So we, I mean it's a lot of, has been trial and error. I think that's the thing. There are a lot of people out there that if they're claiming that they're getting all this perfectly from the get go, they're probably lying to you or that or they've got a magic wand. Either of those is possible. I guess.
- [10:23]
Danny Decker
Either is possible. Very true. Okay. So to me, AI and really all of the innovation we've seen over the last year, two years is such a great example of a double edged sword where it's like, and I'm thinking for law firms specifically there's all of this productivity, efficiency, accuracy, like all of these productivity gains like you've described. And we've leaned into it too. You know, as, as, as a marketing agency, we've leaned into it probably in different ways. But, but big fan of the efficiencies and, and all of the, you know, everything that that AI provides. But you know, I think one example on the flip side of this is you know, we're hearing from law firms all the time, you know, especially in like estate planning, for example, in business law of, of lawyers that are now they're losing clients that would have needed to hire them to draft a contract, but now they're like I can do it on Chat GPT. So, so do, do you see any of that? And maybe that's less of a thing in PI, but basically it's like man, you know, tools like Chat GPT have made it faster and, and cheaper than ever to quote unquote, you know, draft legal documents. And we are starting to see that and hear that from, from some clients. So I have some thoughts on that and we obviously have some adv with our clients. But, but I am, I am curious if you're seeing that if you're. Anyone in your group is, is seeing that and how you feel about that conversation.
- [11:48]
Tyson Mutrix
So I have, I have worried about estate planning attorneys specifically or anything that's, that's like trademark. Like anything that's like, can be very standardized. I've, I've worried about any of those niches for a while and I have been a little surprised by how many have not been concerned. So I will say that I'm not, I'm also not the alarmist type. So I think that lot of this can be, it's to our benefit. So if I were like an estate planning attorney, I would probably focus on higher end clients because they're not going to be the ones that are using AI. The lower, the lower level ones are going to be the ones the, the, the lower paying is what I mean by that. Lower, lower paying clients are going to be the ones that are going to be using AI. So I, I would try to worry less about that. That being said, I do al. I mean there's lots of attorneys I know that have, they have the. I would, I would call the lower paying matter types that are doing just fine, are doing really, really well. So I think there's some. But because I think part of that. And I'll answer the question with the PI in a second. I think part of that is I think the general public does not know the freight train that's about to run over them. I really don't. I think that that is. I go to family dinners and all that and no one's talking about AI, I bring it up and they're like, they're like, I'm talking about aliens or something. And it is the wildest thing. It is crazy to me to think that they're, they're really not thinking about it. I think some people that are older, they're also like, oh, by the time this hits, I'm gonna be just fine. I don't know if that's the case. Now it comes to PI, I've not noticed it. I've not noticed a significant difference. I have. It is funny. I've spoken to opposing council and they're like, yeah, you know, we'll be dealing with pro se. And like, they're, you can tell they're sending us this, you know, chat gp, chat GPT generated, you know, demand letter and all these kinds of things. Because I do think the PI field has a little bit of a, of a fence built around it. And I don't know if it's going to stay a strong fence or if it's going to be weakened over time. It'll probably be weakened over time. But right now, like an insurance adjuster knows, okay, they send a demand. They, they deal with people without attorneys all the time, okay? And they're not going to adjust the amounts that they're going to pay simply based on a chat GPT generated demand. They're not, because the. Okay, let's say that they file a lawsuit. Oh, good luck with the rules of evidence. And chat GPT getting that accurate may get it accurate at some point, sure. But I mean, you can't be in the middle of a depot, you can't be in the middle of a trial referencing chat GPT whenever you're needing to make. Make objections. So I think that there is a bit of a moat, a bit of a fence around this space because they're not going to be. The insurance adjusters are not going to offer more money because with a pro se based on this chat GPT generated to make. Because there's no risk of them actually filing a lawsuit being successful with it. So I think that's. As of right now, like I said, that could change, but I don't see it changing when it comes to the court system. The court system has been very resistant to AI, as you've probably seen. There are attorneys getting hammered every single day for putting fake AI cases into their pleadings, which is crazy at this point. Like we even have, at this point, we have a procedure where we double check every case with a human goes and double checks everything. That's been generated just to make sure that's what you have to have to do at this point, because I'm terrified of that happening. But so I think PIs is fairly safe for now. Criminal defense is going to be safe for now. You're going to have a family law. Safe for now. That being said, I think there are the standardized ones that are going to be a little trickier.
- [15:18]
Danny Decker
Well, you know, and one of the things like I guess I believe philosophically is like, listen, you're not going to beat Chat GPT on speed and on price, right? It's as fast and as cheap as it gets. And to your point, you know, so you need to aim for that clientele that values, you know, your expertise, your experience, the experience your firm creates and just, you know, don't try to win the fast and cheap game because at this point, like, it's, it's really just, it's impossible. It's impossible to beat. It's possible to win that game. So, so I want to shift gears just a little bit. So, so I had the opportunity to, to, to speak at your conference, Max lawcon, I think it was in September. Thoroughly enjoyed it. And you know, one of the, I love going to conferences and getting there a day early and listening and, you know, taking notes and learning from the other speakers. And you know, one thing that jumped out to me from, from, from your presentation and multiple others too was the emphasis that you guys are putting into mindset and personal productivity and you know, everything from like sleep optimization. Just, just really a lot. I was really surprised and I loved how much focus you guys kind of put on, you know, I'll just call it performance optimization. Really curious, like, you personally, what was your, what was your journey on that? Like, have you always been wired that way? Like, how did you get to the point where you spend so much time thinking about, about optimization?
- [16:41]
Tyson Mutrix
I'd say I, I definitely evolved over time on that. That was one. I. It's funny, I think it probably started with diet in 2020, so. Because I, I look at pictures back from whenever, like 15 years ago, and I'd say I look better now than I did 15 years ago because I, I was doing the whole thing where I was staying up till three in the morning working on cases and I was getting no sleep and it was just terrible. I was really awful, really awful when it comes to health, wasn't eating healthy. And then I changed my diet in 2020. I remember stepping on the scale thinking like, what the. Wasn't like, I was like, super super big. But it was definitely bigger than I wanted to be, that's for sure. And so it just kind of evolved from there. And then I've really got. It kind of gotten into sort of the whole health hacking because it really, it's. I think it's funny how we'd like to, to kind of separate, compartmentalize our lives. Okay. We run a law firm, we run a business that's over there. You know, we've got kids that's over there. You know, we've got ourselves, we gotta take care of ourselves. That's over here. And like. And the reality is it's all wrapped into one, right? It is. The reality is, is that you can try to separate those things as best you can. But guess what? If you just had a kid and you're up really, really late, and you're up till four in the morning because the kid's sick and then you got to get up because you got court at 9am and you're tired all freaking day. Like, you can't separate those things. So my conclusion was like, okay, can't separate those things. If I'm going to be the best of the best of the best in what I do, that means I've got to optimize this other, other part of my life too. So it's not the easiest thing to do. Getting sleep for me is probably the hardest part of the whole thing. I, the eating healthy is completely fine. I can do all that. I can work out. Like we hired a trainer. I did all that stuff. Right. The, it's the sleep for me. And that's probably one of the most important parts of this, is that I usually get up early. I usually stay up late. It's. It's one of those things where it's a bad habit I picked up from my dad. I think it's my dad. He's still, to this day, up late. Up early. Just, he just retired last week, two weeks ago. So, so he's, he's still in good, good health for the most part. But I think it, I think it just, it comes down to I learned a lot of hard lessons. Maybe I don't like, I don't drink like I used to. I, I'll have an occasional drink, but I rarely ever drink. A lot of that comes down to just how I want to feel the next day. I, I have a whoop. So we have a Max Law whoop group. I don't know if you wear a whoop or not, but it's. You can, I mean, it really has gotten down to, like, looking and seeing what I've eaten the previous day.
- [19:12]
Danny Decker
Okay.
- [19:12]
Tyson Mutrix
How do I feel today? How do I. How do my numbers play out? Lots, all of those different things. So it just. I think it's just lessons learned over time, really. There was no. No major event that led me to it. It's just things I picked up.
- [19:24]
Danny Decker
Well, you're. You know, your. Your success speaks for itself, right?
- [19:28]
Tyson Mutrix
You're.
- [19:28]
Danny Decker
You're growing. Your law firm, Maximum Lawyer, is. Is. Is growing and, And. And really making a big impact in the industry. And that's awesome to see. So whatever you're doing, it's working. Keep it up. But then, you know, I'm always curious, too. Like, do you have any sort of morning routine or. Or any sort of, like, anything you do that, that. That, like, really, you know, sets the tone for your day? It doesn't have to be first thing in the morning, but, like, just kill curious how you approach that.
- [19:52]
Tyson Mutrix
No, I don't. I. I tried to do the whole optimization of my morning thing, and I don't. I think it works for some people. I don't think it's one of those things where you have to do that. There are certain things that I know I have to do each week that I must absolutely do, and so I know I've got to go, like, make sure, like, the sleep part of. It's really, really important. We talked about that. Like, I even got to the point where I, Marco Brown, recommended a particular bed. I bought that bed. So optimizing that part of it. But, like, working out, I got. I know I got to work out when I've got to go. I've got to work out. So I got to hit that schedule. Got to make sure I eat right, make sure I sleep right. So I don't. I don't do a whole routine where I'm journaling. I've got certain things I do when. When it comes to a mindset that my. My coach, Jason S. Has me do. So I. I do have. I do those certain things. I usually do those in the morning, but otherwise I don't have this, you know, magical morning routine. I have tried it. It's just not for me. It's. I'm curious. Do you. I. I'm curious if you have one, because I don't think it's necessary. I think it's overblown. But I wonder. I wonder if you do.
- [20:57]
Danny Decker
Mine evolves. I think the first one that I jumped into was, like, miracle morning back in, like, 2018, 2019.
- [21:04]
Tyson Mutrix
I tried that, too. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah.
- [21:05]
Danny Decker
And, like, there are pieces of that that. That have stuck around, but, like, I kind of go through phases. I really do, personally. You know, I get up early. I try to get a workout in first thing. Lots of times it's just a bike ride or a walk. And I typically listen to a podcast while I'm doing that or an audio book. And it's like, I do that before I check my email. And, you know, you just get into that. At least I get into that state, you know, kind of as an entrepreneur where I'm. I'm seeing the possibilities and I'm excited about things, and I got a million different, you know, ideas that I want to attack that day. And I find that, like, just protecting that space first thing in the morning so that, like, I bring, you know, my energy and my attention to the day as opposed to starting the day by responding to, you know, email or whatever else really helps for me. But like, that said, like, everything else kind of kind of evolves. Like, I go through periods of time where, like, I lift weights in the morning. Other times I do that at the end of the day. So it just. Honestly, it ebbs and flows for me.
- [21:58]
Tyson Mutrix
I think what's maybe more important is the things you shouldn't do. Like, because, like, I do. I go to the gym in the morning. But, like, there are certain things that, like, I want to. Absolutely. I want to take my kids to school in the morning. So I take my kids to school in the morning. Like, so I'm not going to go sit in the sauna for 30 minutes whenever I could actually take my kids to school. So, like, there are certain things where, like, I. I do have my morning very tightly timed. But I mean, the thing you mentioned about, like, checking, not checking messages, like, I'm not going to check messages first thing in the morning. I'm not going to do that. I'm like, I rarely, if ever, get into my email because I've got. I've got my assistant who's sitting out there. She does that. She does an incredible job. I don't have to do that. So there's certain things that you should. Like, you shouldn't start the day with a donut. Okay? That's just. It's just one of those things. You shouldn't do these certain things. So I don't. I don't do those things. You definitely should not start your day with an email. Because all of us have woken up. We've checked that email. It's from a, it's a nasty grant from you name it person. And it just starts your day off in a terrible way. So you shouldn't, you shouldn't do it. So anything where you can kind of keep your mind open in the morning, I think is a good idea.
- [23:00]
Danny Decker
100%. So. So Tyson, how much time do you spend working in the law firm versus maximum lawyer?
- [23:09]
Tyson Mutrix
It's probably about 2/3, 1/3. So 2/3 in the firm. 1/3 max law. We've that does, that's something that does ebb and flow based on. All right. Like for example, this week it's going to be a little heavier, Maxwell, because we have a mastermind in Phoenix next week for the conference. It'll be, you know, I mean the, the conference week is 100 max law. So it in zero. I mean 0% for the firm. It depends. But I'd say roughly 2/3, 1/3 is how it splits up. And because we have, we have max all pretty much optimized for the most part.
- [23:42]
Danny Decker
Love it. When is the next conference?
- [23:45]
Tyson Mutrix
It is in October of this year. I was the, the dates I don't have in front of me, but it is in October. Maxwell.com we did not release the tickets for this. We've, we've released one batch. The next batch is going to be coming out in the next few months. So keep an eye on that. But and it's in October of this year. We also have an event in Chicago in June that's gonna be kind of cool.
- [24:06]
Danny Decker
Very cool. Very cool. You were also telling me right before we, we hit record here, you guys have launched a new service. I think it's sort of like, I think it was Becca's list. Co. Can you tell us about that?
- [24:17]
Tyson Mutrix
Yeah. So this is, this all started. It was kind of funny. There was someone in what we call it the association now. It used to be called the Guild, but there's someone in the guild that was, they were complaining about a vendor. And then like it was this post that kind of led to just a flood of comments and we're like, and Becca had this idea of like this vendor review site so that we could it's really about leveling the playing field because we, you know, people don't know what the prices are. They get screwed over by, by a vendor. I can't tell you how many times we've seen in the Facebook group someone getting, you know, screwed over by the vendor. We've seen vendors come and they, and they go. And so we have it where you can look up vendors. It's free for attorneys. You just, you sign up with, with the LinkedIn, your LinkedIn account, and you. It's free for attorneys to sign up for the. They can check, they can review vendors for free. They can check out vendors. It's so it's, It's a way of really kind of giving us a little bit more power as attorneys to, to control what we're paying for. I, I spent. I'm not going to mention the name of the company because it's just the things like this where, like, we pay this attorney tax sometimes. I spent 20 grand for this service and got it, did it, got nothing out of it. Zero. Okay. And it's a, It's. It was a software that I paid for, and after a year, it was not working. And so it's just one of the things where, like, we are. We're kind of handcuffed and this is one of those ways of helping remove that handcuff.
- [25:49]
Danny Decker
Yeah, no, I think that's great. And I mean, you know, as, as, you know, any. So, so we're a marketing agency, right? And so we work with hundreds and hundreds of clients, and we've been doing this for like, 15 years. And, and, and are we perfect? No, I won't say we're perfect. I won't say there's never been somebody who we didn't deliver exactly what we wanted for. But, but as somebody who's been part of this industry for, like, a really long time, I just think that's great. I think, you know, you know, maybe most simply one of the ways that, that, that any vendor, but, you know, us in particular learns and improves is, is. Is when we hear, you know, feedback, and sometimes that's not great feedback, and you want to hear it. So, like, I don't know. I think it's great that you're doing that. I think, you know, in the marketing space, which is where I spend all my time, I'm continually surprised by, you know, I think the average law firm owner really doesn't want to think about marketing, and I don't blame them for it. Right? They. They didn't go to law school because they want to market. They would really just love it if clients showed up. So, you know, and I think, unfortunately, there are folks that take advantage of that, whether that's intentional or unintentional. And one of the frustrations for me is, is I think that a lot of marketing folks, you know, present things as a silver bullet, right? It's like, hey, listen, if you just drop $20,000 on a website or two, $10,000 on an SEO strategy or a Google Ad campaign or whatever is just going to fix everything and it's going to work perfectly and you're not going to have to think about marketing anymore. And you know, in my experience that's unfortunately just not true. So I. One of the things we're trying to do at Spotlight is, is have real conversations about what it actually looks like to build systematic marketing that produces leads, produces referrals. Also understands that there's an intake component. Right. And so part of, of what we have to do is make sure that leads are being, you know, handled properly and that there's an efficient hand up and all of that. And unfortunately it just is bigger than, you know, a single silver bullet that's going to fix everything. So all that to say, I love that you guys are doing that. I think you said it was beccaslist co. We'll be sure to link that in the show notes because that's awesome. So very cool. And before we wrap up here, I want to be sure I don't think we did this upfront. So just tell folks who are listening and our audiences pretty much all solo small law firm owners. What is Max Law exactly? What do you guys offer? Just talk a little bit about your, your program, your community.
- [28:09]
Tyson Mutrix
Sure. And thanks for that opportunity and thanks for mentioning Beck's list. I appreciate it. The I at some point I want to ask you, I think that'd be a great show that we could do where you tell us like how you can coach law firms to not squander the leads that you help generate. Because I bet that's extremely frustrating for you where you do all this work, you generate the business and then they drop the ball at the goal line. I would, that would be a really interesting episode. But so Maxim Lawyer is a community of law firm owners. We started the association. So you go to maximo.com and we used to, used to be the Guild. You may have heard it called the Guild. We wanted to change the name. We're going to change a little bit, a little bit, do a different direction when it comes to the branding. And so it's really a community of law firm owners that get together and they share their best stuff. And we, we have masterminds, we have get togethers throughout the year where people different trainings like for example and this. And we have, we moved off of Facebook for the small group. The big Facebook group's still there, but we moved on to circle and we got quarterly experts that come on. And for example, we've got some AI people. We've got Jeff Hampton that does. Helps with SEO. We've got someone that's helping with billing for people that bill. So each quarter the coaches change. So we even come on and they can actually ask real questions. And it's not out in this public forum and they're not getting a bunch of answers from people that are not experts. They're actually getting expert advice, which is kind of nice. So it's a, it's a community. We've got big plans for what we have for the, for the future. It's going to be. That's why we changed it to the Association. It's a, it's a broader approach. We, we definitely take a, an approach where there's a. There's a lot of, A lot of membership groups that you can join in the legal industry. And I think a lot of people view themselves as competitors. We don't really view things that way. Like, that's why I like going on to other podcasts. I like going to other events where, like, I, I kind of view this as like a big community where we can all just kind of grow together. And that's why we, that's why we change it to the Association. It's more of a. Like, we want, we want everybody to be kind of under one, one tent. You know, like, everyone sort of be together, like, help each other out, support each other. So instead of kind of like, oh, you're a competitor. I don't want to, I don't want to help you out. So it's one of those things where we like to help other people out. And so that's what we do.
- [30:22]
Danny Decker
Love that. Super cool. So, so where can folks go to learn more about that?
- [30:26]
Tyson Mutrix
Maximum lawyer.com and then there's links when it comes to Max Law Con or, or the association there, so they can check things out there or if they haven't listen to the podcast, they can check that out too, though, there as well. Love it.
- [30:36]
Danny Decker
Well, Tyson, thanks so much for joining us.
- [30:38]
Tyson Mutrix
Thanks for having me, Danny. I really appreciate it. Lots of fun. I'm, I'm fighting this cold, but I, I appreciate you, you, you dealing with me. So that's. It's a. As. I, I'm gonna feel the same way after this episode that I did after the last one, so. So I appreciate having me on.
- [30:51]
Danny Decker
Love it. Thanks again.