Podcast Summary: Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast

Episode #371: The Positive Power of Confrontation
Air Date: November 20, 2025
Hosts: Perry Holly and Chris Cody

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into a topic that most leaders dread but absolutely need: confrontation. Perry Holly and Chris Cody break down why positive, healthy confrontation is essential for building clarity, trust, and engagement within teams. They discuss practical frameworks, mindsets, and tactical steps for making confrontation a constructive leadership tool, not just a source of conflict.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Leaders Avoid Confrontation

[03:18]

• Many people see confrontation negatively due to past bad experiences: anger, blame, ego, or fear of fallout.
• There are four main reasons leaders avoid confrontation:
  • Fear of Discomfort ([03:18]): Worry about starting uncomfortable conversations, valuing short-term harmony over long-term health.

    "Short term comfort...is going to create long term dysfunction." – Chris Cody

  • Fear of Fallout ([04:25]): Concern that confronting will damage relationships, cause staff to quit, or create resentment.

    "Confrontation done well actually protects a relationship." – Perry Holly [04:25]

  • Lack of Know-how ([05:13]): Unsure of the right approach or framework, many leaders just avoid it and hope issues resolve on their own.

    "No one ever teaches...how to confront somebody in a positive way." – Chris Cody

  • Self-Doubt ([06:25]): Feeling unqualified ("Who am I to correct you?") can paralyze leaders.

    "If you are responsible for people, you're responsible for giving them the truth." – Perry Holly

2. Reframing Confrontation: From Conflict to Clarity

[07:04 – 09:13]

• Shift from thinking about confrontation as winning an argument to doing what's right for the relationship and performance.

• John Maxwell's core principle:

  "You cannot correct what you're unwilling to confront." – John Maxwell (quoted by Chris Cody) [07:04]

• It's not about being right, but about bringing the team member back into trust, connection, and engagement.

• Mindset shifts suggested:

  • Old view: confrontation = conflict
  • New view: confrontation = clarity
  • Old view: confrontation is personal
  • New view: confrontation is purposeful
  • Old view: confrontation breaks trust
  • New view: confrontation builds trust

3. The Six Steps to Positive Confrontation

Step 1: Prepare Your Heart

[09:39]

• Check your motives before entering the discussion.
• Ask yourself: Is my goal to help or to get back at them? Is my intention to solve the problem or to prove I’m smarter?
• Your heart, tone, and even facial expressions will reveal your real intent:

  "If your heart is right...your tone is going to mimic what's on the inside." – Chris Cody [09:42]

• Perry’s 3 questions for self-check: Do I want to help? Do I care about them? Do I trust them? [11:13]

Step 2: Choose the Right Time and Place

[12:18]

• Address issues quickly—don’t wait for annual reviews or let things fester.
• Confront in private to preserve dignity and partnership:

  "Confrontation done in public can be humiliating to people." – Perry Holly [12:18]

Step 3: Begin with Care, Lead with Clarity

[12:59]

• Start by expressing care ("I value what you bring, and I want to help you succeed").
• Be specific about the issue—focus on behavior, not the person:

  "Talk about the specific issue, not the person at hand." – Chris Cody

Step 4: Invite Their Perspective

[14:07]

• Genuinely ask for their side ("How do you see it?") and listen with humility and curiosity.
• Notable inspiration:

  "I talk like I'm right, I listen like I'm wrong." – Tim Elmore (quoted by Perry Holly) [14:57]

Step 5: Collaborate on the Path Forward

[15:05]

• Don’t just deliver feedback and walk away; develop an action plan with them.
• Use the "three A's" from coaching:
  • Ask questions
  • Hold accountable
  • Build action plans
• Align on what success looks like.

Step 6: End with Encouragement

[16:07]

• Even if behavior isn’t affirmed, affirm the person and your belief in them.
• Powerful principle:

  "Connection over content." – Perry Holly, referencing John Maxwell [16:57]

• The goal is to strengthen the relationship, not just deliver criticism.

4. Benefits of Healthy Confrontation

[18:31]

• Restores trust and authenticity ("you're telling them the truth")

• Improves performance and leads to personal growth for both leader and team member

• Results in a healthier culture and reduced gossip—issues are dealt with directly

• Drives faster decision-making and higher engagement

• Reduces team stress

  "The only thing worse than an uncomfortable conversation is a broken relationship tomorrow." – John Maxwell (paraphrased by Perry Holly) [19:55]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Short-Term vs. Long-Term:

  "It may give you short term comfort, but it is going to create long term dysfunction if you don't do that."
  – Chris Cody [03:18]

• On Relationship Protection:

  "Confrontation done well actually protects a relationship. I find it restores trust and honesty…"
  – Perry Holly [04:25]

• John Maxwell Principle:

  "You cannot correct what you're unwilling to confront."
  – Quoted by Chris Cody [07:04]

• On Mindset:

  "A confrontation could feel like it's personal, but it needs to be purposeful."
  – Perry Holly [08:17]

• On Curiosity in Feedback:

  "I talk like I'm right, I listen like I'm wrong."
  – Tim Elmore, quoted by Perry Holly [14:57]

• On Connection Over Content:

  "Can I say in such a way that I protect the connection I have with [them]...The connection is more important than whatever I have to say."
  – Perry Holly [16:57]

Action Challenge

[20:14]

• The hosts encourage listeners to identify a situation where confrontation is needed and use the outlined framework to approach it.
• Reflect: What’s holding you back? Would healthy confrontation strengthen the relationship? What’s your first actionable step?

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:18 – Four reasons leaders avoid confrontation
• 07:04 – John Maxwell’s principle on confronting to correct
• 09:39 – Step 1: Prepare your heart
• 12:18 – Step 2: Choose the right time and place
• 12:59 – Step 3: Begin with care, lead with clarity
• 14:07 – Step 4: Invite their perspective
• 15:05 – Step 5: Collaborate on a plan forward
• 16:07 – Step 6: End with encouragement
• 18:31 – Benefits of positive confrontation
• 20:14 – Actionable takeaways and challenge to listeners

Podcast Tone & Language

• Conversational, practical, and encouraging
• Rich with relatable workplace and personal anecdotes
• Emphasizes empathy, care, and connection as center points of leadership

This episode is a practical guide for leaders ready to move past their discomfort with confrontation and into a space where feedback and dialogue build healthier, higher-performing teams.