Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast

Episode #379: It Helps to Have Thick Skin
Hosts: Perry Holley & Chris Goede
Date: January 15, 2026

Overview of the Episode

The central theme of this episode is the crucial leadership skill of “having thick skin”—the ability to process criticism, feedback, and negativity without internalizing it in a way that derails your performance or well-being. Perry Holley and Chris Goede dive into the link between thick skin and emotional intelligence, exploring ways leaders can develop resilience, receive feedback constructively, and maintain their clarity and influence even under pressure. The episode is candid, practical, and filled with both research-backed insights and personal anecdotes.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Nature of Thick Skin in Leadership

• Emotional Intelligence Connection

  • Having thick skin is not about ignoring feedback but processing it wisely, recognizing that most negativity says more about the other person than about yourself (02:10–03:00).
  • High emotional intelligence (EQ) means understanding and managing emotions, reframing situations, and not taking things personally.

• Quote from James Clear:

  “Not taking things personally is a superpower.”
  (02:00 — Chris quoting James Clear)

2. Experiencing Negativity as a Leader

• Real Coaching Example

  • Perry recounts a coaching call where a leader wanted to quit after facing negativity from their team. Over-personalizing criticism can make leaders question themselves or their fit for the role (03:03–04:00).
  • Perry:

    “My personality type is... a bit of a pleaser...But the minute I do something controversial or get pushback, I can get my feelings hurt.”
    (03:30)

• John Maxwell Principle:

  “Leaders don’t let their emotions lead them. They lead their emotions.”
  (04:09 — Perry referencing John Maxwell)

3. Intellectual Reframing & Performance

• Mental Energy and Narratives
  • Instead of allowing yourself to stew on direct or abrupt feedback, adopt a stance of curiosity and look forward to clarifying conversations (05:00–06:30).
  • Consuming yourself with imagined judgments robs you of the energy needed for creativity and clarity.
  • Chris:

    “Leadership requires clear thinking, and clear thinking requires emotional control.”
    (06:35 — quoting John Maxwell)

4. Feedback as Data—Not Personal

• Perry and Chris cite lessons from recent guests:

  • Feedback is just data; label it as such to filter out personal hurt (07:07–07:33).
  • Leaders often get hurt because they're using “somebody else's scoreboard”—seeking approval from others rather than measuring by their own values and mission (07:34–08:30).

• Standout discussion:

  • Most people are focused on themselves, not on judging you.

    “Your freedom and your thick skin really begin the day you realize nobody’s really thinking about you.”
    (11:31 — Perry)

5. The Spotlight Effect and Self-Talk

• We overestimate how much others notice or care about what we do (“the spotlight effect”). The reality: people are generally preoccupied with their own challenges (11:25–12:55).

• When receiving feedback, ask: “Do I need to change my procedure, or is this about changing my perception of what's been said?” (13:19)

• Pro Tip:

  “Don’t take constructive feedback from someone who has never constructed anything.”
  (14:10 — Chris, with a playful woodworking analogy)

6. Handling the Perpetual Naysayers

• Not all criticism is valid or useful. Some people (“CAVE people: Citizens Against Virtually Everything”) will always object or find fault. High EQ leaders “don’t negotiate with the 10%,” they expect some negativity and treat it as math, not a personal indictment (16:03–16:59).
• Tim Ferriss Quote:

  “10% of the people find a way to hate everything. Personally expect this and then treat it as math.”
  (16:20 — Perry)

7. Growth Mindset and Resilience

• The ultimate aim is not to let feedback—or even rejection—derail you but to learn from it and persevere, as illustrated by the story of Colonel Sanders’ persistence after over 1,000 rejections (18:39–19:16).
• Taking control of your self-narrative is key; only you get to define the story you tell yourself about setbacks (18:35–18:40).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Chris: “Leaders with high emotional intelligence understand this truth: other people’s negativity often says more about them than they’re actually saying about you.” (02:24–02:45)
• Perry: “Most leaders get hurt because they’re using somebody else’s scoreboard.” (07:50)
• Chris: “Don’t take constructive feedback from someone who has never constructed anything.” (14:10)
• Perry: “Your freedom and your thick skin really begin the day you realize nobody’s really thinking about you.” (11:31)
• Tim Ferriss (via Perry): “10% of the people find a way to hate everything. Personally expect this and then treat it as math.” (16:20)
• Perry: “Taking control of that... only you get to write the story you’re telling yourself. You do.” (18:35–18:40)
• Chris: “Thick skin isn't about ignoring people. It's really about mastering yourself. It's tied to emotional intelligence.” (19:18)
• Perry: “Lead with clarity, not with emotion... you’re not extremely clear when you’re emotional.” (20:48–20:49)

Important Timestamps

• 02:10: Introduction of “thick skin” as a function of high EQ; quoting James Clear.
• 03:03: Real coaching example—personalizing feedback.
• 04:09–06:35: John Maxwell insights on emotional control and leadership.
• 07:07–08:30: Labeling feedback as data, “running on your own scoreboard.”
• 11:25–12:55: The spotlight effect; freedom through realizing others aren’t focused on you.
• 13:19: Differentiating “procedure” vs. “perception” feedback.
• 14:10: “Don’t take constructive feedback from those who haven’t constructed anything.”
• 16:03–16:59: “CAVE people”; expecting persistent negativity.
• 18:39: Colonel Sanders’ rejection story; the power of perseverance.
• 19:18–20:49: Closing thoughts on thick skin as self-mastery and path to greater influence.

Key Takeaways for Leaders

• Thick skin is a learned skill, not a personality trait—it hinges on emotional intelligence.
• Separate yourself from the criticism, viewing feedback neutrally and considering the credibility of the source.
• Assume that most negative reactions reflect the other person’s situation or mindset, not your worth or intent.
• Expect some portion of negativity as inevitable (“it’s just math”) and seek out the real “nuggets” of truth in feedback.
• Control your narrative: only you determine whether a setback or criticism defines you.
• Adopting this mindset enhances your clarity, resilience, and lasting influence as a leader.

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This summary captures the core lessons and energy of the discussion—practical, candid, and empowering for leaders seeking to build resilience and authentic influence.