Maxwell Leadership Executive Podcast

Episode #381: Should You Be a More Hands-on Leader?
Release Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Perry Holley
Co-host: Chris Cody

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the evolving expectations of leadership, particularly the balance between being a hands-on leader and remaining strategically above day-to-day operations. Using insights from a recent Harvard Business Review article, “The Surprising Success of Hands-on Leaders” by Scott Cook and Nitin Noria, hosts Perry Holley and Chris Cody explore what it truly means to be “hands-on”—distinguishing it from micromanagement—and discuss five key principles of effective, high-level leader involvement. The conversation provides practical examples and coaching insights for executives facing the challenge of empowering teams while ensuring operational excellence.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Challenging the “Stay Out of the Weeds” Assumption

[01:46-03:30]

• Many executives are told the higher you rise, the more “hands-off” you should become.
• A recent HBR article argues for a different kind of hands-on leadership—not micromanagement, but involvement as a teacher and system builder.
• Perry shares a coaching story illustrating that when leaders step away entirely, teams may lack critical thinking and the ability to question or improve processes.

Notable Quote:

“The best leaders...were acting as teachers and system builders. When I saw that, I go, that's exactly what this leader I'm working with is doing and needs to be doing.”
— Perry Holley, [04:22]

What Hands-on Leadership Really Means

[03:52-06:10]

• True hands-on leaders:
  • Are present but don’t control or displace team work.
  • Model standards, establish behavioral norms and sharpen problem-solving.
  • Coach and elevate, rather than override or hoard decision rights.
• The aim: Build systems that work even in the leader’s absence.
• Key challenge: Many leaders find that when they are not “present,” performance drops.

Notable Quote:

“Are you the kind of leader that wants to see things work because of you, or...wants to see things work without you?”
— Perry Holley, [05:34]

The Five Principles of Effective Hands-on Leaders

Based on the HBR article, the hosts break down these five principles:

1. Obsess over Metrics that Customers Value

[06:17-07:45]

• Most leaders track company-centric metrics, not those reflecting customer value.
• True hands-on leaders focus on deeply understanding and systematizing what customers care about, as customer value is ultimately what drives company results.

Chris Cody:

“Is the team focused on the right thing? Are they obsessed over the metrics that the customers value, not that the organization does?”
— [07:33]

• Most teams actually don’t measure customer-valued metrics consistently.

2. Architect the Way Work Gets Done

[08:16-09:36]

• It’s about designing workflows and decision rights—pushing decisions to the front lines and reducing unnecessary friction.
• Equip teams with tools, frameworks, and processes for clarity and efficiency.
• This requires leaders to give up some control—a tough but crucial shift.

Notable Quote:

“By being more hands-on, I’m giving up control. Why? Because I’m teaching, I’m coaching, I’m setting up systems that work.”
— Perry Holley, [09:07]

3. Use Experiments to Make Decisions

[09:36-11:08]

• Hands-on leaders rely not on hierarchy, but on data and experimentation.
• Decisions are informed by evidence, not opinions.
• Encourages a culture of asking questions, running tests, and learning from results.

Chris Cody:

“Good leaders ask great questions and then let what they are learning lead the way from there.”
— [10:37]

4. Lead by Teaching the Toolkit

[11:08-12:36]

• Frontline involvement is not just for early career leaders; the best continue to engage in “real work.”
• Spend time where value is created, teaching teams not just what to do, but how to think and strategize.

Perry Holley:

“These best leaders...stayed rooted in the real work of the organization...spend time where the value is actually created.”
— [11:39]

5. Strive to Be Better, Faster, Cheaper Every Year—Forever

[12:36-14:20]

• Emphasize infinite progress and continuous improvement (e.g., Toyota’s “Kaizen”).
• Build habits and norms that support daily, incremental growth (the “plus one effect” or 1% improvement mindset).
• Key for organizational resilience and competitiveness.

Chris Cody:

“If you can figure out how to operationalize daily growth in your team...I think that your organization is heading in the right direction.”
— [13:45]

Why Is Hands-on Leadership So Hard to Copy?

[14:20-15:35]

• Open secrets: Companies like Toyota and Amazon publicly share their methods, yet few replicate their success.
• Requires an “identity shift”—redefining leadership from distant overseer to active system architect.

Perry Holley:

“Moving to a hands on system architect model requires really an identity shift in how you see leadership, maybe redefining how leadership is.”
— [14:55]

• There’s a difference between micromanaging and intentionally teaching/coaching.

Knowing When to Zoom In and Zoom Out

[16:08-18:04]

• Effective hands-on leaders intentionally “zoom in” to coach, question, and teach—then step back out.
• The goal isn’t to disrupt, but to architect new processes and empower teams so performance is independent of leader presence.
• True leadership is demonstrated by what happens in your absence.

Chris Cody:

“They know when to zoom in and when to...step out. If they go into the details...they're going in with a purpose...”
— [16:14]

“That’s not true leadership and influence. So back to your point. A great article and highly worth the read if you haven't read it yet.”
— [17:57]

Memorable Quotes

• “Are you coaching? Are you elevating their ability to operate in your absence?”
  — Perry Holley, [06:05]

• “You're not micromanaging. You're actually training, teaching, coaching and helping to move them along.”
  — Perry Holley, [15:12]

• “If you don't [operationalize daily growth], well then we've seen a lot of organizations have gone the other way and that's painful.”
  — Chris Cody, [13:56]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:46]—Intro to topic: Should leaders be more hands-on?
• [03:30]—Coaching example: Hands-on leadership in practice
• [06:17]—Principle 1: Obsess over customer-valued metrics
• [08:16]—Principle 2: Architecting workflows and systems
• [09:36]—Principle 3: Using experimentation and questioning
• [11:08]—Principle 4: Teaching at the frontlines
• [12:36]—Principle 5: Continuous improvement (“plus one effect,” Kaizen)
• [14:20]—Why is this hard to copy? The leader identity shift
• [16:08]—Knowing when to zoom in (teach/coach) and zoom out
• [17:57]—Summary: Not micromanagement, but system-building

Conclusion

This episode reframes hands-on leadership as a powerful tool for building resilient, high-performing teams—not by micromanaging, but by coaching, designing effective systems, and obsessing over real value creation. Perry and Chris encourage leaders to rethink their involvement, not as an exercise in control, but as the work of teaching and empowering—ensuring organizational excellence long after the leader has stepped away.