Are We Smart Enough to Understand the Universe? Could Humans be Alien Pets? Neil deGrasse Tyson on Simulation Theory, Why Your God is too Small and How Science Will Guide Us into the Future

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Are We Smart Enough to Understand the Universe? Could Humans be Alien Pets? Neil deGrasse Tyson on Simulation Theory, Why Your God is too Small and How Science Will Guide Us into the Future"

Mayim Bialik's Breakdown – February 3, 2026
Host: Mayim Bialik
Guest: Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson
Co-Host: Jonathan Cohen

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Overview

In this illuminating, humorous, and wide-ranging episode, astrophysicist and acclaimed science communicator Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson joins Mayim Bialik and Jonathan Cohen for a breakdown of humanity’s deepest cosmic questions. Topics span the nature of scientific discovery, the limits of human understanding, the interplay between science and spirituality, simulation theory, and whether humans might be the pets of alien intelligence. Tyson’s wit, warmth, and curiosity animate the discussion, making high-level concepts accessible and deeply engaging.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Curiosity and Cosmic Mysteries

• Opening Thoughts: Tyson expresses existential wonder:

  "At any given moment. It's the next round of science mysteries. What is dark matter? What is dark energy? It is 95% of what is driving the universe. What was around before the big bang? Is there a multiverse? I lose sleep wondering, are we smart enough to ever actually figure out the universe?"
  (00:00)

• Our Place in the Universe: Tyson muses on how insignificant humans are on the genetic scale and imagines advanced alien life:

  "Genetically, we're within one 1.5% identical DNA to a chimpanzee. Imagine a life form who has 1 1/2% DNA in that vector. Beyond us. ... Earth could be a literal aquarium terrarium that they constructed for their own amusement. I'm all in on smart aliens being out there somewhere. And if they find us and they want to make us their pet, that's the best we might be able to hope for."
  (00:32)

2. Intersecting Science, Religion, and Human Experience (23:00–38:00)

• Evolution of Tyson’s Approach: Tyson describes his maturation from dismissive skepticism to nuanced exploration with those seeking meaning:

  "...I realized I owed them a more nuanced, more thoughtful reply than just, is there evidence for it? Just chuck it."
  (23:04)

• Science vs. Spiritual Explanation: Explains humanity’s historic tendency to ascribe supernatural causes to the unknown, later replaced by scientific understanding:

  "Divinity of all stripes...was the account that people conjured to explain that which they had no control over. Science rises up and one by one, these are put in the record books..."
  (25:21)

• God of the Gaps:

  "...if to you, God is where science has yet to tread, then God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance."
  (27:18)

• New Gaps Filled by Aliens:

  "So I said, maybe we're entering an era of aliens of the gaps...So you have people today who there's something...I don't know what it is. Must be aliens. So aliens are supplanting the role that God had played in our ignorance in modern times."
  (29:22)

• On Scientific Theories:

  "If you have an idea that's not tested, it's a hypothesis. Once it's tested and verified and reverified...that's a theory."
  (31:35)

3. The Nature and Power of Scientific Inquiry (33:18–36:51)

• Science as Endless Inquiry: Tyson extols the never-ending frontier of science and its humble openness to the unknown:

  "As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance."
  (36:41, repeated at 36:56)

• Carl Sagan Reference:

  "One of the titles of Carl Sagan's book was A Demon Haunted World, subtitled importantly, Science as a candle in the Dark. Without the science, we're wandering in the dark, running away from ghosts."
  (33:18)

• Parenting & Banishing Fear: Humorously describes how he and his wife (a mathematical physicist) raised their children without fear of the dark or monsters:

  "...I close the closet and I go. And they start laughing and laughing and laughing. And so they've never been afraid of turning a corner of the dark or of a haunted house. It takes some of the fun out of haunted houses because you're just not buying it."
  (34:51)

4. Critiques of Science—Limits and Openness (38:35–47:10)

• Caution Against Scientific Dogma: Mayim notes the failings of earlier medical science that denied mind-body connection.
  Tyson acknowledges medicine’s historic resistance and the challenges of experimental verification in human brains and bodies:

  "...physics and astrophysics and understanding the universe is way easier than understanding the human mind, body and soul. ... It's part of the reason why neuroscience as a field is so young relative to physics and astronomy."
  (39:50)

• Science Improves Life Despite Missteps:

  "...That increase in life expectancy is not because of how people are eating. It's because of medicine. It is because of science."
  (45:00)

• Can Science Ever Explain Love?
  Tyson offers a hypothetical experiment in which neuroscience could map and even trigger love in the brain, dismissing boundaries around scientific understanding:

  "I can imagine an experiment where science then fully understands love…That's science. Understanding love. Now we move on to the next question.”
  (47:10)

5. Simulation Theory and Free Will (49:52–55:53)

• Tyson’s View on Simulation Theory:

  "It's hard to argue against it...We have ever growing computing power available to us and we create worlds on our computer for our own amusements...Imagine a future of quantum computing where it's thousands, millions, even billions of times more computing..."
  (50:05)

• Free Will in a Simulated World:

  "...the number of options you had available to you essentially mimic having free will."
  (51:44)

• SimCity and Higher Level Simulations:

  "And you get into it and you say, oh, my gosh, I am mayor and I am doing this...And one feature that I thought was a little contrived, but later on I said, no, it was real. Every now and then, Godzilla walks through your city. ... No, this is real...Because there was September 11th. No, it's not literally Godzilla, but it's something nobody ordered."
  (53:32)

• Recursive Simulated Universes:

  "Imagine there are 8 billion people in a world that they think is a real world...and they invent computers in that world and they get bored and they want to create a game, and so they advance to quantum computing and...now you have a fractal. So there it goes. And it's then simulations all the way down. And now close your eyes. Throw a dart. Which universe are you in? The first one that programmed the next one, which is real, or the countless others. And you're gonna land in the countless others. So I don't have a good argument against that."
  (54:00)

• Possible Reprieve:

  "We do not yet have the computing power to create that world. So we can't be any of the ones that have already created another world that takes out the entire middle of this cascade. Meaning we are either the first real universe that hasn't gotten there yet or we're the last universe, right, that's simulated that has yet to evolve to that state."
  (55:11)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Religion, Science, and Mystery:

  "The urge to put God or some divine power in a place where science has yet to tread is huge."
  (26:00, Tyson)

• On Science & Humility:

  "There was a day when we called them laws, but we're a little more humble going forward.”
  (31:35, Tyson)

• On Perpetual Mystery:

  "As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance."
  (36:56, Tyson; “Say it again!” prompts Jonathan Cohen.)

• On Challenging Accepted Science:

  "What science tells us is the world isn't always what it looks like, and it isn't always what it seems."
  (42:19, Tyson)

• On Being the Science Parent:

  "You know, there's. Do we live in a time when someone will accuse you of being a nerd? Say nerd. And you know what my reply is? Thanks for the compliment.”
  (34:18, Tyson)

• On Love as a Scientific Target:

  "I can make one up. For example, we find out that you look at a painting and you feel great affection for it. ... And we do some brain scans and the same part of the brain is being activated in both of you. ... That's science. Understanding love. Now we move on to the next question."
  (47:10, Tyson)

• On Humanity as Possible Alien Pets:

  "I'm all in on smart aliens being out there somewhere. And if they find us and they want to make us their pet, that's the best we might be able to hope for."
  (00:46, Tyson)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening Questions: Dark Matter, Alien Pets, The Unknown: 00:00–01:00
• Big Bang Theory Anecdotes and Science in Pop Culture: 05:00–22:00
• Science and Spirituality; God of the Gaps: 23:00–33:00
• Scientific Inquiry and Mystery: 33:00–38:00
• Medicine’s Blindspots & Science’s Self-Correction: 38:00–47:00
• Science and Love: 47:00–49:00
• Simulation Theory: 49:30–55:53

---

Tone & Style

The conversation is lively, sharp-witted, and approachable, blending deep awe for the universe with a grounded sense of humor. Tyson’s analogies (from Mario and SimCity to parenting) keep the science relatable. Mayim and Jonathan’s quick banter and thoughtful prompts ensure the dialogue remains accessible and relevant for listeners regardless of scientific background.

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Closing

Part Two Sneak Peek: The conversation will continue in a future episode, promising explorations of non-human intelligence, near-death experiences, psychedelics, meditation, the multiverse, nonlinear time, and more.

Final Words from Tyson:

“As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance.”
(36:56)

---

For listeners seeking to question, wonder, and laugh about the universe and our place within it, this episode delivers both profound insights and memorable, irreverent exchanges.

Transcript

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

At any given moment. It's the next round of science mysteries. What is dark matter? What is dark energy? It is 95% of what is driving the universe. What was around before the big bang? Is there a multiverse? I lose sleep wondering, are we smart enough to ever actually figure out the universe?

[Jonathan Cohen]

World famous astrophysicist Neil Degrasse Tyson is here to help us understand the universe by figuring out where we came from, why we're here, and what our destiny might be beyond the stars. Are there aliens?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Genetically, we're within one 1.5% identical DNA to a chimpanzee. Imagine a life form who has 1 1/2% DNA in that vector. Beyond us.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What would we look like to them? Earth could be a literal aquarium terrarium that they constructed for their own amusement. I'm all in on smart aliens being out there somewhere. And if they find us and they want to make us their pet, that's the best we might be able to hope for.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Are we living in a simulation?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's hard to argue against it. As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance. But of anything humans have ever invented, science may be uniquely capable of giving us access to our understanding of our place in the universe and secure pathways into our future.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Hi, I'm.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Hey, Sal.

[Mayim Bialik]

Hank.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What's going on?

[Mayim Bialik]

We haven't worked a case in years.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy.

[Mayim Bialik]

Too easy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Think something's up?

[Mayim Bialik]

You tell me.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day.

[Mayim Bialik]

It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh. They're so fast.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And breathe.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts and bialik. And I'm Jonathan Cohen, and welcome to our breakdown. This is an earth shattering episode.

[Mayim Bialik]

It's also very, very funny.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's a universe expanding episode.

[Mayim Bialik]

We cannot wait to tell you who we're having on today.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Usually in Our intros, we do like a. What happened before the Big Bang? What happens when you die? Are we living in a simulation? Are there aliens? Can we time travel? Guess what? We've got the man who's going to answer all these things, Jonathan. Who's our guest today?

[Mayim Bialik]

Today we are speaking to Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[Jonathan Cohen]

He is an astrophysicist, as you know, and the director of the Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of natural history since 1996. He's the author of 19 books. He's an incredibly, incredibly talented and gifted science communicator. Also was on two episodes of Big Bang Theory, which we're gonna talk about before we get into. Can we time travel? Are there aliens? Are aliens watching us? Are we living in a simulation? What happens after we die? How does he explain near death experiences? Is there a God? We cover everything possible with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. In this episode we do wanna mention just visiting this planet. Further scientific adventures of Merlin from Omnisia, I think that's how you pronounce. Was first published in 1998, but there is a new edition that just came out in 2025. It's really, really awesome. It's the. Dr. Tyson's character, Merlin is answering more questions. Also Cosmos Confidential, Neil and Bill's excellent bromance is an incredible audio project with William Shatner that is out now, so check that out as well. And Merlin's tour of the universe, revised and updated for the 21st century, came out in 2024. So his books are incredible, wonderful gifts also. Like this is the kind of book like I want to give to my kids. Like these are all the questions, tackle them.

[Mayim Bialik]

So we're very excited to have Neil here in person.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Without further ado, Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Welcome to the Breakdown. Break it down.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, thanks. Thanks for having me. This is my first time on this show, I think.

[Mayim Bialik]

So we've been trying.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh my God.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We have wanted to speak to you for a very long time.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Cause I've been around, you know. Cause you never called, you didn't write, you know. Cause you've been on my podcast.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Okay, so this is. Yes. So that was maybe 10 years ago, which is a distant memory.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And I was deeply honored and I wanted to do right by it.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Tell us about your Big Bang Theory crossover. Was I there?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Not the first time, but the second time. But you were not in any of the scenes that I was involved in.

[Jonathan Cohen]

So my memory is used for Blossom scripts, Big Bang Theory scripts, and music songs that you haven't heard in 40 years. I remember the lyrics, but I literally. I spent a night with my grandmother in a hotel in Florida and I don't remember that. And I don't remember if we crossed paths on Big Bang Theory, but there you go.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It can happen where you don't remember. Don't be upset by that. It's called age. So my first cameo was. I think it was season three, perhaps.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Okay. And I came in at the end of season three.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah, this was. And I had a run in with Sheldon on whether Pluto should be a planet because I was just pilloried by eight year old third graders who had just memorized this. Educated mother. That's nine pizzas, right? And so I have these. I have hate mail from elementary school children, like scrawled in crayons.

[Mayim Bialik]

That's the worst kind of hate.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's the worst kind of hate. Cause you're so. It breaks your heart. And dear Dr. Tyson, now I don't have a favorite planet because you took away my favorite. Here's a picture of it. Put it back into the.

[Mayim Bialik]

I have no hopes and dreams anymore.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So while I was implicated in the demotion of Pluto, I was really just an accessory. I mean, the data came in. And in New York City, we were the most visible exponent of. Of the demotion of Pluto because we were opening a brand new exhibit and we just took Pluto, plucked it from the ranks of planets.

[Jonathan Cohen]

So rude.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It had it coming. We plucked it from the ranks of planets and grouped it with the other dirty ice balls in the outer solar system.

[Jonathan Cohen]

So rude.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Where it belongs.

[Mayim Bialik]

Dirty ice balls.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Just the language that you use, it's insulting, it's accurate. It's insulting for men of your academic stature to refer to Pluto as such.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I just want to make it clear I'm not an actor. So even playing myself, I needed tips from the director. And so it was very helpful. I would later host Cosmos, which gave me a little more facetime to a camera and even script time. How to read a script as though it's just coming out of you fresh. You take that for granted, but oh my gosh, to do that. So they wanted. For Cosmos. You didn't ask this, but I'm going there. They wanted to get me a voice coach. And I said, voice coach? I know how to speak. What do you mean voice? You know, welcome to the universe. What do you mean, voice coach? These are people who teach you accents, you know, on the screen. I don't need a voice coach.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What did they want?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So they brought in the voice coach. And it was, like, one of the most amazing moments I've ever had.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What did they do? Well, did you used to speak with an Irish accent?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They made me what I am today. No, no, no. It was. It was how to read a script. And here was the transition moment for me. I walked through a portal, through a proscenium. It was. Here is a list of planets in order from the sun. Okay. Here it is on script. Okay. Give it to me. And so I say, okay, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto at the time. Okay. We're still kind of considering it. All right. Now, how would you say that if you were not reading it? Okay. Even though it's still there.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so here's how I would now do it. I would say Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. Now, that's way more sort of off the top of your head. And that bit completely transformed me in my ability to read scripts against something you would take for granted because you did it professionally.

[Jonathan Cohen]

This episode is behind the Actor's studio with Neil DeGrasse.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Exactly. How to turn Neil into a slightly better cameo actor than anyone else.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I mean, you do have a very melodious voice. Like, you do have a very beautiful voice.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I don't hear myself, you know, when I'm out in the world and I wear a hat and the COVID mask helps greatly to tamp down the.

[Jonathan Cohen]

There's no more Covid. Or is that what you're here to tell us?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, but I do that, and it tamps down the recognition factor. But your voices. So then I speak, and then people just turn around, and then. So I have to, like, do that and not speak if I want to go totally incognito.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You don't recognize me from my voice. I think if you have any unusual voice, that's not, you know, kind of the timbre of most people.

[Mayim Bialik]

Now do the planets method style. Like, they are all about to go in different directions, and the universe is ending.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, wow. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. I need my motivation. Thank you.

[Mayim Bialik]

That coach really did work.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So the second time.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I was just gonna say the second.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Time was in the final season.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And, yeah, everyone remembers that.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, yeah. That's when you got your Nobel Prize.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Oh, right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What do you mean? Oh, just an afterthought. Okay.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I was not on drugs.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I just don't hold drugs.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I remember whether or not you do. Okay, so I. So that explains why I'll come up to actors where they had some really impactful line that they uttered in a movie. And I'll just recite it back to them, and they'll look at me like, what? What are you gonna say? And so I had to come to realize that when you perform, it's a performance in the moment and you keep moving on.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It doesn't sit with you the way it might sit with the people who you touched with your handiwork.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So in that one, it was a fun storyline where Raj was asked by the local news to comment on a comet that was coming through. There was some astronomical event, and he thought he'd be cute and say, oh, was Neil degrasse Tyson not available? Right. And the host of the music anchor just ignored that and then continued with the question. So that freaks him out. Said, maybe I was not the first choice. And then he starts making fun of me professionally and socially. And then you have. Who among you were watching this on television saying, raj, pull up, pull up. Raj. Raj. And so then I catch wind of this, and then they script me in a conversation with him from my office. They rebuilt my office. They took some pictures of my office and remade everything. And so I'm there, and I call him up, and he's in a car, and I say, raj, this is Neil degrasse Tyson. Oh, oh, oh, what about this Twitter dust up that we're in? Cause it happened over.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Oh, that's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Over social media. And I say, I'm gonna be at the. What's the bookstore in Pasadena? There's a bookstore there? No, I'm gonna be at Frohman's. Come there and tell that to my face. And he says, oh, no, I'm busy. I can't make it. I'm sorry. So it was a very tense kind of thing, but the funnest script line, which was invented in the moment, not by me, I can't take credit for this, was I'm going through a list of people who I'm calling out for their conduct on social media. And then. So we hang up. And I said, that was satisfying. Now, who else needs a Degrasse Whoopin?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Right, Degrasse.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

A Degrasse Whoopin. And then I call Bill Nye. Right? And so I said, bill Nye, this is Neil. We gotta talk. And then quickly hangs up. And that's my only. That was my only presence.

[Jonathan Cohen]

So.

[Mayim Bialik]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

Like to kind of see the evolution of a TV show that was essentially about the kind of People who dig Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I was delighted that my people have representation in the acting world. And it was, I was, you know, how many cop dramas can you show? How many, you know, emergency room shows? How many of these is worth one geek show? Okay. And I think Chuck and Bill, Chuck Glory, Bill Prady, they saw that there was low hanging fruit that probably would have been rejected in a dozen of other idea proposals to the gatekeepers of what gets aired and what doesn't and say, here it is, there'll be scientists and no one will know what they're talking about and there'll be jokes and everyone will laugh. It's like, right, okay. And I'm so glad that it wasn't just a mildly successful show. It was one of the most successful shows ever. And you know, Gilligan's island went three seasons. Shall I remind us of this? Okay. The original Star Trek went three seasons.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And if you look at some of the episodes in that third season, you were reminded why it only went three seasons and you guys went eight, nine seasons.

[Jonathan Cohen]

No, we went 12.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

12, was it.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We would say we were like, we got graduation rings at the end.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, yeah, there it is.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We were like 12th graders.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

12Th graders. So just congratulation. I haven't, you know, seen you since then.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, I mean, I was just happy to be along for the ride. But you know, having you on and Stephen Hawking, I mean, we had some incredible people on William Shatner as well. William Shatner and Kareem Abdul Jabbar. My gosh, that's right. I mean, we also, we had kind of like most of the Star Trek world, which was like a Bill Prady, you know, kind of thing.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

One last thing, if I may. Just because as I'm, you know, fanboying on the show, that show took turns that for any other show might have been jumping the shark. Okay. You know, there is your main character interested in a woman who's out of his league and there's a tension there.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You don't have to talk about me like that. I'm right here. Oh, you're talking about Penny. I get it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so there's sexual tension there, there's awkwardness and that propels scripting.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sure.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

You're gonna consummate that and have them get married. You don't do that in a sitcom. But they did. You guys did it and everybody ended up married. And it was so. That, I think, was heroic to get that to work in a sitcom and not have it pull you back.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yeah, I mean, I Remember when I joined, you know, people were very, very protective over the Sheldon character in particular. And a lot of people felt like he shouldn't have a girlfriend. Like it's gonna draw away. But I think the writers found a really nice way to tie it in.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I hope the chance of jumping the shark by doing that.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yeah.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And you told me you probably won't remember this. Okay. You told me your instructions how to act. Your role was to be a girl.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sheldon instead of a boy Sheldon Cooper. That's right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Then that. Then you become. Then you're not interfering with him. You are supporting him in that way. And that worked brilliantly.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Now I have to be a female Neil DeGrasse Tyson today.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Well, give me some of your voice.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Mars.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, no, Mars.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I would pronounce it Uranus. Also because I am a third grade.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, Uranus. If you're third grade. Yes.

[Mayim Bialik]

That's the one question to wrap this segment, which is out of the scientists and colleagues that you have now. Who do you want to call and give the business, too?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Who needs a Degrass?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, I wouldn't. I don't run around thinking that way. I'll do it for a scripted sitcom.

[Mayim Bialik]

You don't have to publicly share it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

But there's gotta be no point. I'll tell you secretly now, but don't tell anybody.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, maybe we'll get to it in all of the questions that we have. So in the time that we have with you, you know, obviously, you do this. You speak, you educate, you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I try to bring the universe down to Earth.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Correct. You try to bring the universe down to Earth. And what we wanted to do is, you know, we. We've talked a lot, especially in the last year or so, about sort of this intersection between science and spirituality. What are some of the things that are fantastical? What's the science behind them? So we're just kind of gonna go through some topics and see what strikes your fancy.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Bring it on.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sound good?

[Mayim Bialik]

Beautiful.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Bring it on.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And there's obviously, I'm going to preface.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That by saying not 10, 15 years ago, I would enter a conversation about spirituality or religion in a kind of a distance, discounted way. And then I had to mature out of that. And what I mean by that is I'm an educator, and people come to me with sincere, honest thoughts, questions, concerns about their lives, how they were raised, what they care about, what they value. And I realized I owed them a more nuanced, more thoughtful reply than just, is there evidence for it? Just chuck it.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sure.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I then Spent quite a bit of time reading. Is literature the right word? No, reading tracts, religious tracts all around the world. You know, Hindu, you know, I have a copy of the Torah at home, for example.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's very popular.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I have every. I have every pamphlet that was left at my door by the Jehovah's Witnesses. They also do something slightly different, you know, and so I have a shelf of that. And so I just. I have Joseph Smith's account for the Mormons. And so that way, when someone comes to me, I have some sensitivity to their wiring.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We weren't going to start here, but. But since you kind of opened the door to that, I'd love this as a sort of framework because one of the things that I'm interested in is how much different traditions, and I include academic traditions in that, how much our function as humans on this planet is to try and figure out where we came from, why we're here and where we're going. And to me, science is another religion of sorts, right? It's a. It's a set of beliefs, it's a set of theories, It's a set of ways to think and approach things. So many of the religious traditions are trying to figure out the answers to these things. Some have some scientific merit. What is your general perspective, right, on trying to frame those three questions? Where did we come from? Why are we here and where are we going?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Before the methods and tools of science were available to us, the whole world was a mystery. You know, why is there a storm? Oh, Poseidon has risen up. There's a lightning bolt that struck. You know, even go back to the early 19th century, even when Ben Franklin is learning about lightning and how it operates and what attracts it, and he invents the lightning rod. And now you put that on your building and it protects you from getting destroyed. But before then, churches would get hit by lightning bolts, okay? And if it was your church and not my church, ah, there was you preaching the wrong gospel there. God let you know. And so divinity of all stripes, be it monotheistic or polytheistic, was the account that people conjured to explain that which they had no control over. Science rises up and one by one, these are put in the record books, okay? No one is blaming Poseidon or who's the Roman version of that? Neptune. No one is blamed with the trident. So that has been the trend, and that trend continues to this day. And so I have been quoted occasionally, accurately with the following statement, if to you, God is where science has yet to tread, okay? Because I would Say, you know, we have all evidence points to the big Bang. Someone would ask, well, what was around before the big bang? I said, I don't know. Got top people working. Something had to be there. Was it God? Okay, the urge to put God or some divine power in a place where science has yet to tread is huge. And it's been. We've been at. People have been doing that for thousands of years.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Literally.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah. Yes. Okay. Newton did it, Ptolemy did it. I'll give you. Let's go back to AD150, Ptolemy. He pioneered the geocentric understanding of the world. Earth in the middle. Everybody's going around Earth. You had to put planets on epicycles because planets occasionally go to the left and then they slow down, stop, and then they go to the right again. They invented a word for that. They called it retrograde. All right, so how do you explain all of that? You have these epicycles. So there you are. You know what he said in the margin of his greatest work where he lays all this out? He hand wrote, I know that we are mortal by nature and ephemeral, but when I trace at my pleasure the windings to and fro of the heavenly bodies, I no longer touch Earth with my feet. I stand in the presence of Zeus himself and take my fill of ambrosia. He's feeling it. Okay, now that was obviously not the Judeo Christian God. That was the Greek God. He was a Greek polymath. But that's him appealing to divine influence on something he doesn't really yet understand. And even Isaac Newton would do this. So this doesn't escape the most brilliant minds there ever was. And it continues basically to this day. But it manifests slightly differently today. Now, people go around. So the philosophers call this the God of the gaps. Okay? And so my reply to that was, if to you, God is where science has yet to tread, then God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance. And because that's an if statement, it's just sort of fundamentally true. Because it's an if statement. What people have done, especially the atheist community, which is trying hard to fully claim me, but I keep some distance.

[Jonathan Cohen]

They're very like religious fanatics sometimes.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They'll try to grab anything I say. What they did was. They left off the first part of that quote. And they have their T shirts, they have it say, God is an ever receding pocket of Neil Degrasse Tyson. Yes, those words came out of my mouth, but it followed if. An if statement that matters. I'm not just declaring what God Is. No, I'm saying if. If God to you is this, then this has to follow. So I don't see science as equivalent to other attempts to understand the world because it does not appeal to a divinity, to any divine forces, whereas basically every other religion does. So that distinguishes it, I think, from the rest. Now, fast forward to modern times. You know what happens? People go see the pyramids, and how did they do it? I don't know. Aliens must have helped. Okay, so you just watch how often aliens show up in people's accounts. So I said, maybe we're entering an era of aliens of the gaps, but that doesn't have the alliteration. So I invented a new phrase, aliens of our ignorance. So you have people today who there's something. Lights in the sky, moving. I don't know what it is. Must be aliens. So aliens are supplanting the role that God had played in our ignorance in modern times. But science pushes on. And yes, there are theories. The word theory has been misused. I don't want to blame people because. But let me officially say what a theory is, okay? You can't run around and say, I have a theory, that whatever. No, you have a hypothesis. Einstein had a theory. You have an hypothesis. If you have an idea that's not tested, it's a hypothesis. Once it's tested and verified and reverified. And reverified. And it organizes things that happen in the world in a coherent way, makes predictions that you can verify, that's a theory. There was a day when we called them laws, but we're a little more humble going forward.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Darwin's theory of evolution is one that people.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, no, no, it's fine. We still call it that. People want to think, just because and for understandable reasons, that when you use the word theory, well, we're still just making stuff up and we don't know. I'm saying quantum theory has never been shown to be experimentally wrong. But we still call it quantum theory. We call it Einstein's theory of relativity. We don't call it Einstein's law of relativity. It's just a 20th century recognition that an idea that may be right in every way tested, there might be tests on the edge of it that show where it fails and that there might be a deeper understanding awaiting us. That's what's going on now. That's what happened between Isaac Newton and Einstein. Isaac Newton has the laws of motion, laws of gravity, and it's working. We went to the moon on Newton's laws, and then we Find out. Wait a minute. If the gravity is really strong or if you're moving really fast. Newton's laws don't work anymore. We're getting the wrong answer. What's going on? Einstein says, I got the answer. It's relativity. And relativity gets you in those extreme places, and it gets the right answer. What happens if you put low speeds and low gravity into Einstein's equations? They become Newton's equations. So it's not like where Newton's out, Einstein's in. Newton is embedded within a deeper understanding. And so that's where theory carries us into the future.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I wonder, is there a place where science has gone too far in pushing out some of the mystical, some of the inexplicable? Have we gone too far?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Am I biased when I say science can never go too far? It is conceived and constructed to give we feeble humans a deeper understanding of the world in which we live so that we're not running away from mysterious. One of the titles of Carl Sagan's book was A Demon Haunted World, subtitled importantly, Science as a candle in the Dark. Without the science, we're wandering in the dark, running away from ghosts. And can I tell you what I did with my kids? Should I admit this? I don't know. When they were really little, okay. So my wife has a PhD in mathematical physics. So we have two kids who are being raised with science literate parents. Nerds. Okay. Nerds. Okay. And you know, there's. Do we live in a time when someone will accuse you of being a nerd? Say nerd. And you know what my reply is? Thanks for the compliment.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yep.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

That's all I say. So I wanted that. I didn't want them to be afraid of ghosts, okay? Because I'm not yet convinced that ghosts are real or have ever been real. So they were really young. And so I said, I'm going to put you in this closet, this dark closet, and close the door. Okay. And then I'm going to get a monster to try to break into the closet. So of course it's me.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And they know it's parenting by Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So I close the closet and I go. And they start laughing and laughing and laughing. And so they've never been afraid of turning a corner of the dark or of a haunted house. It takes some of the fun out of haunted houses because you're just not buying it.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You know, I'm scared of everything. Cause my parents got into the closet with me and were like, what if a monster come?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And the monster was still there, there. So let me give, let me give the other half of that. Yes, there are mysteries today that people enjoy or it gives them a sense of, what do we say? A sense of not knowing everything. And that's kind of important to some people. They don't want science to know everything. What they don't know is at any given moment, there is no end of science mysteries that are still there, not still there. It's the next round of science mysteries. It's not. Are the ghosts in the closet? No. Is it. What is dark matter? What is dark energy? How did we go from organic molecules to self replicating life? Earth seemed to have no trouble doing that. We still don't know how to do that in the lab. We have top people working on it. What was around before the big bang? Is there a multiverse? Will we ever make a wormhole? These are mysteries and they're less grand mysteries that still exist in all the sciences. So my issue here is, yeah, I'm getting rid of some of the magisterial mysteries that you grew up with, but I'm replacing them with others. Cause science has tread there and has come up with answers where we're moved on to the next question.

[Mayim Bialik]

We are all fascinated with the edges that science is exploring and are along for that ride.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And the edges are always there. And here's my favorite comment on that. As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Say it again.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

As the area of our knowledge grows, so too does the perimeter of our ignorance. Because that's the boundary between what we know and don't know. So for me, science is like a forever thing.

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[Mayim Bialik]

I love this. And if I give voice to some of the people who have said, wait a second. Science is sometimes so dogmatic and so assured of what they know that they have missed the mark. For example, when medical doctors said the mind and body are totally separate and the mind never impacts the body. And now we're showing more and more that those two things are far from the truth and actually have led medicine quite astray. Then they're, they're trying to plead to the scientists to sort of stay open and curious and, you know, challenge continually what we know and push those edges.

[Jonathan Cohen]

For example, and you know, people like Gabor Mate, right. Have introduced this notion that we used to think we know why autoimmunity happens, we know why cancer happens. Right. We know why diabetes happens, and we.

[Mayim Bialik]

Know a good chunk of the story.

[Jonathan Cohen]

But the interplay between, let's say, stress the environment, right? And our physiology reveals that there is a much more elaborate combination of things that make up what. But as scientists, we try and understand, but there are many elements that are harder to put our finger on, correct?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So a couple of things first, and I've said this on social media just to put it out there, physics and astrophysics and understanding the universe is way easier than understanding the human mind, body and soul. Okay, so let me just make that clear. The human mind and its interplay with itself and your body. Oh my gosh. It's part of the reason why neuroscience as a field is so young relative to physics and astronomy. They say astronomy is the second oldest profession. So we've had had the benefit of millennia of brilliant thinkers contributing to physics, astronomy, engineering. The pyramids were built 5,000 years ago. So our advances in human. Part of what resisted that was the sanctity of the human body. You don't just cut open the body just to explore, especially not the human mind. And correct me if I'm wrong, cause this is your business. A of lot, a lot of what we learned about the functioning of the brain came from brain injuries to people. And what was left over after this part of the brain got damaged. So this is not the brain in a petri disk. This is waiting around for a brain injury to see what you'll learn on the next emergency room visit. So I just want to make that point clear. Second, there is no end of examples you can give, such as the one just presented, where there's a prevailing truth, let's call it, that would later be shown to be false. I will say without hesitation that if you go back to that time and look at the research going on, I guarantee you whatever was the thing that was ultimately shown to be wrong was not experimentally verified. It was. I think this is true. It's probably true. I did a few things on my own. What do you think? Yeah, it makes sense. Let's declare it. And so it's the experimental verification that makes it true. And it's very hard to experiment on the human body for the reasons I.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Stated and the human mind.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So that's why all. And especially the human mind, that's why your best examples of this are gonna come from the field of medicine, okay. Where doctors are in denial that, let me operate on this cadaver, let me deliver your baby. And did you wash your hands? No. Why do I have to wash my hands? The doctor's hands. Okay? There's no research supporting that. And so it's kind of a caricature of science to say, oh, and by the way, there's. Well, Earth was flat, and then it's not flat. So excuse me, Earth being flat, that knowledge and expectation predated the existence of telescopes. Okay. And it predated the tradition of science to test your idea. It was. Yeah, it kind of looks flat. It's probably flat. Oh, it looks like. And plus, the Bible doesn't deny this. We're in the center of the universe. Everything goes around us. Our vocabulary still preserves a geocentric universe. I don't say to you, Mayim, I don't ask you, what time tomorrow does Earth rotate such that our sight line to the sun appears over the horizon? No, we say, what time does the sunrise. That's a geocentric vocabulary word. So it's what the world looks like. What science tells us is the world isn't always what it looks like, and it isn't always what it seems. And so that's my reply to you, but just to give a shout out to the medical community, you know what our life expectancy was in cavemen, okay? Half of Everyone born wasn't suffering from menopause. That's another way to say it. Everyone was fertile their whole lives.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We did our best work before 20.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Half of everyone born was dead by the age of 30. Half. Okay, cavemen says 10,000, 20,000 years ago. Fast forward to 1850. 1840. Half of in the world was dead before they turned 35. And everyone in that time was eating organic and the water ran pure.

[Jonathan Cohen]

That's not fair.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's true. All that is true does not have to be fair. Okay, they all ate organic. And so what happens in the late 1800s?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Didn't know to wash their hands before a doctor put his hand inside your body.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

At the second half of the 19th century, germ theory matures. We have Pasteur who develops this. We bring the microscope to our physiological needs. And between 1840 and today, we have doubled your life expectancy. So with all of your comments. Well, the mind actually is affecting the body. And the doctors were clueless. They had their head up their ass, whatever else was happening. That increase in life expectancy is not because of how people are eating. It's because of medicine. It is because of science. And my path into this description came from a New Yorker comic, okay. By the artist Gregory. I don't know if it says first or last name, but says Gregory signs it. There are two cavemen sitting across from the fire. And one says to another, you know, they say this, they say, our water runs pure, our game is free game. And everyone is eating healthy, eating organic. But no one lives past 30. And so science matters here. And it is so fundamentally infused in our lives, it is so easy to take it for granted. That's my reply. Oh, one other thing. I know it's kind of related. You didn't say it, but I'm gonna bring it up. There are people who say science will never understand love. For example, if not love, then something else. Put in your favorite thing there. Then I say to such a person, is that. Cause you don't want science to ever understand love. And I realize they want science to have boundaries. And as a scientist, I don't see that as a real thing. And I can imagine an experiment where science then fully understands love. I can make one up. For example, we find out that you look at a painting and you feel great affection for it. Not sexual love, but really you love the painting.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's none of your business what I feel when I look at a painting.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

In English, we don't distinguish between just loving something because you like it a lot and sensual Romantic love, but. So you look at a painting and then you look at the same painting and you feel the same way. And we do some brain scans and the same part of the brain is being activated in both of you. And we do this experiment. 100 people. Or if it's not the same pain, it's just something that they have affection for. Okay, we found the love center of the brain. Okay, so now let's go into your brain. And there's something that you don't care, you don't have any feelings about. And I tickle it while you're looking at it. And then you talk about it and say, I love this. I never realized it before. And you do this automatically after I tickle the brain. Once we know the brain center and how we can control it. That's science. Understanding love. Now we move on to the next question. That's an example. Whether that'll ever happen, I don't know. But I think it's a completely plausible experiment.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, and I think also, I mean, love. It's a good example. I think that there are absolutely certain components that we can understand. The sort of symphony that creates attraction and connection. Right. Is a combination of a variety of systems. Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Then it's more than one part of the brain.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Perhaps. Thank you. We appreciate it. That's very generous of you as an astrophysicist.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, no. I simplified the case. Like, consider a spherical cow.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I simplified it to a plausible experiment.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Perhaps not yet conducted. Correct. That would answer for me what science would have to say about love.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Correct.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

By the way, I'm just delighted to be in your company.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, we are delighted to have you here.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

We think we're having a great time. Cause you're just. Thank you for having me.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Thank you.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

I'm delighted to be in your company too, but a little less so than.

[Mayim Bialik]

I get that all the time.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Ok, let's talk about simulation theory. Oh, sure, I knew of the phrase, but it was not until we had Rizwan Verk on to talk about simulation theory that I really understood what we're talking about. Meaning I had heard people say, like, we're living in a simulation. And I was kind of like, I don't wanna talk to you. But once I read the book, I understood the structure of what this conversation is. So. So I know you're asked a lot of things that don't matter, and I don't know where simulation theory falls.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

No, as an educator, I care about what makes people curious.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Okay.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Simulation theories at the top 10 in the list.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Okay, great.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

God, aliens, simulation theory, in that order.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Those are literally our bedtime stories.

[Mayim Bialik]

Black holes in the multiverse.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

They come later than God, aliens and simulation theory.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Let's dive into simulation theory.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Bring it on.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I'm curious when you first kind of became aware of this notion of simulation theory. And I'm curious what your take on it is. Does it seem to fit what doesn't fit? What works for you about it?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's hard to argue against it. So we don't like it. Nobody likes realizing you're in a simulation. But when I go through the arguments, it's hard to argue. But my. I can give you my best argument against it.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, I want your best support for it.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, sure, sure, sure. No, so.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And then I want.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Yeah, it's. I'm not claiming that I'm in a camp that is cheering on. I'm just as someone who thinks about this, I want to share with you those thoughts. We have ever growing computing power available to us and we create worlds on our computer for our own amusements. And let's take something simply like Mario, okay? Look at some primitive version of the Mario game and there's Mario walking around and he picks up coins, I think, and he jumps. And you can ask the question, does Mario have free will?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sure.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Is Mario self aware?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Right.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

When you look at the code that makes Mario, it's pretty clear that Mario doesn't. Marriage is following lines of instructions. All right, well, that's limited by our computing power. We can put more and more nuance into that character as computing power continues to grow. And imagine a future of quantum computing where it's thousands, millions, even billions of times more computing. Call it phenomena computing, sophistications, features. Yeah, sophistications that can be put into the simulation.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Like, can you insert free will into that?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So you can put so many options that the question about whether your choice is free will doesn't even matter anymore because the number of options you had available to you essentially mimic having free will.

[Jonathan Cohen]

This is the matrix, okay?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Except in the matrix, you're living in your own mind and your body still exists.

[Jonathan Cohen]

But does he knock something over? Right, Because.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Oh, you mean at the beginning when he's with the Oracle? Yeah. How would he have known if that. If it was the case? So that depends on whether your timeline is already understood. And you just access your timeline. Can you go back in time before it? Right. All right, so now imagine a future where we create a world where Mario believes Mario has free will. Because the options available to Mario at Any node. Do I go through the door? Up, down? Do I just stay here? Do I bake a cake? Do I order pizza? You know, do I take an Uber? It's large enough to be indistinguishable from.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's approaching infinity.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And the limit as N goes to infinity. Your choices mimic free will. Now, let's make 8 billion people and create a world I'm old enough to remember the video game SimCity. I'm a city kid. So you are mayor of the city, and they can vote you out of office if you don't make them happy in their opinion polls. And you gotta move money. There's only limited. Do you raise taxes? That way you can improve the schools, but the people won't vote for you if you raise taxes. This is an entire dynamic. And you get into it and you say, oh, my gosh, I am mayor and I am doing this.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I do matter.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And one feature that I thought was a little contrived, but later on I said, no, it was real. Every now and then, Godzilla walks through your city. And I said, this is stupid. And then I said, no, this is real.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's Donald Trump.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

And so ask me, why is that real?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Neil, why is it real?

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Because there was September 11th. No, it's not literally Godzilla, but it's something nobody ordered.

[Mayim Bialik]

It's a black swan event.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay? It's something happens that wreaks havoc on your city, and now you have to solve what just happened. And so I take that that was now 20 years ago when I was playing this game. Today, imagine there are 8 billion people in a world that they think is a real world, and they're all just happy. And then they evolve because they programmed in evolution. Not only biological evolution, but cultural evolution and scientific. And they invent computers. They invent computers in that world and they get bored and they want to create a game, and so they advance to quantum computing and they now you have a fractal. So there it goes. And it's then simulations all the way down. And now close your eyes. Throw a dart. Which universe are you in? The first one that programmed the next one, which is real, or the countless others. And you're gonna land in the countless others. So I don't have a good argument against that. I have an argument that softens it, but I don't have a good argument that will remove that from the table. Can I give you my softening argument?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sure.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Okay. We do not yet have the computing power to create that world.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sure.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

So we can't be any of the ones that have already created another world that takes out the entire middle of this cascade. Meaning we are either the first real universe that hasn't gotten there yet or we're the last universe, right, that's simulated that has yet to evolve to that state.

[Mayim Bialik]

If you have to pick one, which.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

Are you, well now that's 50. 50. I want to be real. You know, like Pinocchio. I want to be.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We're going to hit pause on our conversation with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. There is so much more coming in part two of our conversation with him. We're going to talk about non human intelligence. We're going to talk about near death experiences, psychedelics, meditation, also the multiverse universe and the nonlinear nature of time.

[Mayim Bialik]

We also touch on the akashic records and mysteries that he wants. More information about. Dark matter, dark energy, what happened before the big bang. And are humans smart enough to figure out more about the universe?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Make sure to check us out on substack. We've got awesome content there that is not available anywhere else. Please come and join the Breaker community. It's a growing community of people interested in the intersection of science and spirituality. Join us [e-mail] and we will see you next time with part two of our conversation of Neil DeGrasse Tyson. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.

[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

It's Maya Bialik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two and now she's going to break down. So break down. She's going to break it down.

[Mayim Bialik]

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[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]

What do you have to lose?

[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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