Podcast Summary: Mayim Bialik's Breakdown

Episode: "Your Brain Might Be Lying. The Scientific Explanation for Cellular Memory, Why Universal Intelligence Can Be Found In Nature and How Past Memory Is Actually Changeable"

Guest: Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin
Date: November 25, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the science and philosophy behind memory, consciousness, and what makes human existence unique. Neuroscientist Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin joins Mayim Bialik and Jonathan Cohen to discuss the molecular mechanisms underlying memory, why non-brain cells can “remember,” the evolutionary creativity inherent in nature, and the fluid and subjective nature of memory. The conversation draws together neuroscience, psychology, molecular biology, philosophy, and even practical mental health perspectives, making complex science accessible and deeply relevant to everyday life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Makes Human Experience Unique?

[07:42]

• Dr. Kukushkin highlights the human capacity to recognize ourselves as distinct—from other people, other species, and from non-life—as our core uniqueness.
• It's not the brain's size or the number of neurons that makes us unique, but our ability to conceptualize and reflect upon this distinction.

"I think that what makes us special is the very ability to recognize that. It's the very ability to see yourself as being distinct from other people, from other species, from non-life… That is what makes us special."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [09:54]

2. Materialism vs. Mysticism: Can They Coexist?

[09:59, 11:08]

• Mayim and Dr. Kukushkin discuss whether scientific (materialist) and mystical or spiritual worldviews can be reconciled.
• Dr. Kukushkin uses the analogy of DNA and genes to illustrate how different perspectives (the arrangement of stuff vs. the stuff itself) can coexist. He views consciousness as more about the arrangement of information than just the matter itself—bridging scientific and philosophical interpretations.

"I think it is a process that's happening with information rather than with matter. But to me, it doesn't seem to disagree with a materialist point of view. It's just another way of looking at it."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [12:54]

3. Universal Patterns: Carbon, Oxygen, and the “Essences” of Life

[16:30, 17:48]

• Dr. Kukushkin describes how even the most fundamental elements, like carbon and oxygen, have properties that shape life—and how these patterns scale up to everything in biology.
• Carbon's unique ability to form stable yet flexible bonds makes it the backbone of life, while oxygen's energy-releasing capacities support life's dynamic aspects.
• These foundational relationships are both scientific fact and, intriguingly, have parallels in mystical thought.

"Not ideas that we humans come up with, but ideas that are inherent in the patterns of the world."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [18:01]

"Our entire metabolism... at its core, it's the same dichotomy of taking and giving, these elemental essences of carbon and oxygen."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [19:12]

4. Nature’s Creativity: Evolution as Distributed Intelligence

[21:30, 22:22, 23:58]

• Evolution isn’t uncreative or blind: it’s an ongoing, distributed intelligence.
• The spectacle cobra (snake with “eyes” on its back) illustrates how nature, through selection, generates inventive survival solutions—even without conscious awareness by animals.
• Nature “knows” what works via natural selection, leading to creative biological outcomes at all scales.

"Darwin didn't cancel creativity. Darwin magnified it. He injected it into every part of the natural world."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [24:41]

5. Intelligence and Consciousness: From Cells Up

[25:52, 27:36]

• Dr. Kukushkin prefers a “bottom-up” approach—defining intelligence, mind, and memory from molecular building blocks and simple life forms like sea slugs.
• Sea slugs (“Aplysia”) provide an abstraction of the animal kingdom more typical than mammals, and are excellent models for studying the molecular and cellular basis of learning and behavior.

"Sea slugs... are much further away, and if you compare sea slugs versus us, mammals, mice, humans, what kind of animal is more normal in the animal kingdom? That's the sea slug."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [29:30]

6. Cellular Memory: Not Just in the Brain

[38:40]

• Recent research from Dr. Kukushkin's lab: Even kidney cells in a petri dish can “remember” experiences by changing in response to patterns of stimulation—the same molecular tools as neurons use!
• The “spacing effect” (learning spread out over time is retained better) is true even for non-neuronal cells.

"We've shown that kidney cells, kidney cells grown in a petri dish, also form memories. And they use the same tools, the same molecules, the same genes as brain cells do."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [38:53]

"Turns out the same is true for any other cell... the spaced repetition creates a stronger memory, more of that glow of that memory gene protein than if you cram it all in one go."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [43:27]

7. Implications: The Body Keeps the Score—Literally?

[44:46, 45:56]

• Mayim asks if this research “proves the body keeps the score” (i.e., trauma and experiences being physically stored in the body, not just the brain).
• Dr. Kukushkin: Initially skeptical, he acknowledges the possibility that bodily tissues can store patterns with psychological meaning—opening the door to scientific mechanisms for body-based trauma memory.

“Maybe it's not as woo woo as it sounds... now we know that the body can store patterns of experiences that are happening to these body cells.”
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [47:35]

8. Trauma, Memory Patterns, & Practical Takeaways

[49:05, 51:06]

• Spaced (repeated) trauma is likely to produce deeper effects than single, isolated events, given what’s now known about cellular “memory.”
• This has implications for understanding developmental trauma, PTSD, and perhaps why recurring stress or pain can have lasting effects.
• Practical advice: Patterns matter, and individuals should pay attention to routines and how repeated patterns may be affecting them—biologically and psychologically.

"Patterns matter. That's the main message... everything you do on a schedule might have a lasting effect on your body."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [52:02]

9. Memory Is Not a Snapshot: Impressions, Not Recordings

[54:25, 57:17]

• Memory isn’t a static recording; it’s a change that outlasts an experience, making the brain work differently in the future.
• Memories are subjective impressions, not factual “snapshots” of the past, which explains why memory is so malleable and often unreliable.

"Memory is not a reflection of reality. I think the simplest definition of memory from first principles is memory is a change that outlasts its cause."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [54:50]

"You're creating your own impression of what you experienced. And you're storing that impression. You're not storing the actual thing that happened in the world."
— Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [56:50]

10. Habit, Muscle Memory, and Behavior

[58:23]

• Procedural memory (like learning piano or forming habits) builds via reinforcement, with dopamine “reward” guiding these patterns into automaticity. These changes persist, shaping future behavior—sometimes for a lifetime.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We think of evolution as canceling God. ...Darwin didn't cancel creativity. Darwin magnified it. He injected it into every part of the natural world.”
  — Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [00:00, 24:41]

• "That's nuts."
  — Mayim Bialik reacting to the idea that every cell makes its own memory [01:05]

• "Patterns matter. That's the main message."
  — Dr. Nikolay Kukushkin [52:02]

Important Timestamps

• [07:42] — What’s special about the human experience?
• [12:54] — Reconciling materialism and information as consciousness
• [17:48] — Carbon, oxygen, and the essence of life
• [22:22] — Spectacle cobra, evolution, and creativity in nature
• [29:30] — Sea slugs as model organisms for the brain
• [38:53] — Non-brain cells can form memories
• [43:27] — The “spacing effect” in cellular memory
• [45:56] — “Body keeps the score” implications
• [52:02] — Practical advice: patterns matter
• [54:50] — Redefining memory as change, not a recording

Tone & Language

The discussion is rich, warm, and accessible, blending scientific rigor with wonder and humor. Dr. Kukushkin is thoughtful and precise, yet poetic in describing the beauty of life’s patterns. Mayim brings enthusiasm, relatability, and personal curiosity, regularly referencing both academic research and lived experience.

Summary

The episode fundamentally challenges listeners to reconceptualize memory, intelligence, and even their sense of self. Dr. Kukushkin’s research shows that memory is a universal, deeply biological phenomenon, embedded in all cells and shaped by patterns—not limited to the brain. This holds surprising implications for mental health, trauma, daily habits, and even the perennial human search for meaning and belonging. Where science and mystery intersect are where our deepest insights into being human are found.

Stay tuned for Part 2: AI, technology, the future of consciousness, and what humans may gain—or lose—as we offload memory and meaning-making to our inventions.