In this episode, we sit down with Sharon Shoesmith to revisit one of the most defining and contentious moments in modern child protection: the case of Baby P, and the national reaction that followed.

Sharon reflects candidly on what it meant to become the focus of public anger—labelled, scrutinised, and ultimately removed from her role—despite leading a service that had been judged as “good” by Ofsted. We explore the personal toll of that experience and the powerful social and political forces that demand accountability in the wake of tragedy.

Drawing on psychoanalytic and social theory, the conversation moves beyond headlines to examine how society processes—and often avoids—the reality of harm to children. We discuss the idea of social workers as “containers” for collective anxiety, the “pain of knowing” about abuse, and why narratives of professional failure can feel easier to accept than confronting human cruelty within families.

We also interrogate the enduring legacy of the Baby P case: the rise of “never event” thinking, the political promise of certainty, and how fear has shaped systems that prioritise compliance over meaningful risk management.

Along the way, Sharon challenges assumptions about gender and harm, reflects on what remains unlearned, and offers a clear-eyed perspective on leadership in conditions defined by uncertainty.

This is a thoughtful, at times uncomfortable conversation about blame, denial, grief, and what it really means to safeguard children in a complex world.

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/