Metrics that Measure Up – “Scale your SaaS” with Matt Wolach (April 26, 2023)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Ray Rike welcomes Matt Wolach, B2B sales coach at Xsellus, founder of "Scale Your SaaS" podcast, and CEO of the SaaS tool Ringbot. The conversation dives into Matt’s podcasting journey, best practices for sales and customer acquisition in early-stage B2B SaaS, and the shifting landscape of SaaS sales models, including the role of product-led growth (PLG). Through practical examples and lively discussion, listeners get an inside look at what it really takes to scale a SaaS company from $0M to $100M ARR and beyond.

1. Lessons Learned as a SaaS Podcast Host

[01:18–06:19]

The Evolution of “Scale Your SaaS”

• Matt started his podcast as “Sastry in the Making” but rebranded to “Scale Your SaaS” for simplicity and clearer messaging.
• He initially launched the podcast to generate awareness for his SaaS sales coaching but found the greatest value in learning from his guests’ experiences.

Key Themes from SaaS Leaders

• Founders who succeed deeply understand their market. They talk to dozens of potential customers—often 40 or 50—before building the product.

  • Quote:

    “One of the biggest ones... people say the reason that they were successful is that they were able to connect with their audience. In fact, they went out and learned all about their market before trying to go out and sell to them.”
    — Matt Wolach, [03:10]

• Persistence is vital. Balancing customer feedback with one’s own vision is a recurring challenge.

  • Quote:

    “We have to kind of understand what we're hearing, but also, how do we take that information and balance it versus the market?… Is this a problem? More than anything, is this… do they have a challenge? Don't let them tell you what the way to fix the challenge is. But is it a challenge?”
    — Matt Wolach, [05:16]

The Power of Podcasting for SaaS Brands

• Podcasts are the new blogs—vital for building awareness and engagement.

  • Quote:

    “Podcasts today are like blogs were five to seven years ago. It's one of the best awareness and engagement builders that you can see.”
    — Ray Rike, [05:43]

• Podcasting creates partnerships, expands network reach, and ultimately becomes a channel for deal flow and ecosystem building.

2. Early-Stage SaaS Sales: Challenges and Best Practices

[07:18–17:33]

Top Challenges for SaaS Companies ($1M to $5M ARR)

• Lead Generation:

  • Most early-stage founders over-rely on one or two channels (often cold email).

  • Diversifying across 3–5 channels is critical to maintain a steady pipeline.

  • There are at least 18 different methods for generating SaaS leads; most companies are only aware of a handful.

  • Quote:

    “If you only have one or two channels, if that stops working, then you're out of luck… There are 18 different ways to generate leads within the SaaS world.”
    — Matt Wolach, [07:47–08:25]

  • Commonly missed lead sources:

    • A systematic referral process (automated asks, timed requests, affiliate options)
    • Influencer and affiliate programs (often under-marketed)
    • Quote:

      “Do you have a set process… maybe a month after somebody starts with your SaaS company, do you have an automated email that goes out instantly... Automate it and set it up so it automatically happens…”
      — Matt Wolach, [09:19]

• Closing and Conversion:

  • Many companies generate leads but falter at closing due to awkward demos or poor sales processes.
  • It’s more efficient to first fix the closing process before funneling more leads.
  • Case Study:
    • A client improved their close rate from 26% to 87% by focusing on the demo and closing process.
    • Quote:

      “If you fix marketing, you get a bunch of leads coming in, but then you have a very bad demo and closing process, then you just wasted a lot of time… Fix your demo. Get that right, and then let's fill the funnel.”
      — Matt Wolach, [11:11]

• Key Metrics Most Overlooked:

  • Lead-form to demo-completed ratio is often untracked; many companies lose over half of qualified leads at this step through drop-off.
  • Companies tracking this can push conversion from 42% industry average to 70–90%.
  • Quote:

    “One of the least tracked ratios and yet one of the most important ratios within a sales process… for people who do not track this number, it's about 42% is about the average...”
    — Matt Wolach, [13:17–14:27]

• LTV:CAC Ratio:

  • A critical benchmark for customer acquisition effectiveness; best-in-class SaaS aim for 4–6:1, above which companies should aggressively invest in marketing, below which they must refine process or reduce costs.
  • Quote:

    “A really good balance is somewhere four or five to one… If you're above that, put more money in. If you're below that, fix your closing process or fix your costs.”
    — Matt Wolach, [16:00]

3. The Evolution of SaaS Customer Acquisition & The Role of Sales

[17:33–26:13]

The Product-Led Growth (PLG) Paradigm

• PLG is attractive but is not realistic for all SaaS, especially if price point is above ~$100/month.

• PLG works best for low-cost, high-velocity products or as add-ons once brand momentum is established.

  • Quote:

    “Product led growth can work. There's a lot of factors at play... if your price point is over a hundred bucks a month, it's going to be really, really hard… I have people come to me like, yeah, we want to do plg. I'm like... that's about a thousand a month. I'm like, not happening.”
    — Matt Wolach, [18:10]

• At scale (>$20M ARR), PLG companies may actually spend more on sales and marketing than traditional sales-led peers due to the challenges of late-stage conversion and retention.

  • Quote:

    “At about $20 million ARR and above… product led growth companies actually had more sales and marketing investment than a sales led because the conversion, the retention, it took more effort at that stage…”
    — Ray Rike, [20:04]

The Future of SaaS Sales Roles

• The classic "sales" role is evolving—Matt advocates for product experts or customer advocates, not traditional salespeople, especially as buyers seek value and expertise over a sales push.

  • Quote:

    “We would never mention the word sales. We would always talk about… one of our experts… customer advocate... We're always focused on how can we help them.”
    — Matt Wolach, [21:38]

• As PLG and self-serve models grow, salespeople will become more like "customer/product Sherpas" focused on helping customers derive maximum value from the product.

Discounting & Value Conversation

• Over-discounting is a trap for early-stage companies—train your buyers to expect discounts and they’ll never value you at full price.
• Price too low and buyers won’t perceive value; price slightly below the established competitor but emphasize value and support.
  • Analogy:
    Choosing a cheap $4.99 meal when the stakes are high (like repairing a relationship) signals lack of seriousness or value—similarly, prospects bypass cheap SaaS for high-stakes problems.
  • Quote:

    “If you're too low, they won't even look at you. They'll think that you're not going to solve the problems that we have… You absolutely took yourself out of play by trying to undercut.”
    — Matt Wolach, [24:50]

4. Building a Personal Brand & Final Advice

[26:13–30:18]

• Build Your Personal Brand:

  • Everyone in SaaS—founders, execs, and even reps—should prioritize building their personal brand “because people buy from people.”
  • Quote:

    “Building your personal brand actually can have a big impact. And this doesn't just apply to the founders or the big execs. This applies to everybody.”
    — Matt Wolach, [26:28]

• Getting Started with a Personal Brand:

  • Share what you know, where your market lives (LinkedIn, Twitter, etc.), and focus on helping, not selling.
  • Practical example: Matt gave away a spreadsheet tool on LinkedIn, resulting in 1.3M+ views.

• On Learning and Career:

  • Early-career professionals should “take the job”—all experiences compound and contribute to growth.
  • Quote:

    “Whatever you're doing, soak it up and know that it's going to be great and valuable for you in the future.”
    — Matt Wolach, [29:49]

5. Notable Recommendations & Resources

[28:56–29:37]

• Must-follow CEO: Russell Brunson, ClickFunnels – exemplary at merging personal and company branding.
• Essential Tool: Slack – indispensable for remote SaaS teams.
• Early Career Advice: Take jobs even if they seem beneath you; every role provides valuable experience for SaaS founders and leaders.

Memorable Quotes

• “People buy from people. Build your personal brand and it'll make you very strong.” — Matt Wolach, [26:28]
• “The people who are helping the most are selling the most.” — Matt Wolach, [22:24]
• “Podcasts today are like blogs were five to seven years ago. It's one of the best awareness and engagement builders…” — Ray Rike, [05:43]

Suggested Timestamps for Important Segments

• Podcasting and founder lessons: [01:18–06:19]
• Lead generation, referral processes, and closing: [07:18–14:00]
• Key sales metrics and LTV:CAC: [15:27–17:33]
• Product Led Growth challenges: [17:33–20:42]
• The future of SaaS sales roles: [20:42–22:47]
• Discounting and price-value perceptions: [22:47–26:13]
• Building a personal brand: [26:13–30:18]

For SaaS founders, execs, and emerging leaders, this episode is a goldmine of actionable insights and hard-earned wisdom on scaling, selling, and staying ahead in today’s evolving SaaS landscape.