Mickey Jo (2:53)

And the role that you are playing in the book Thief, the musical in concert, is death.

Melanie La Barrie (2:59)

Yes. You see, I've made this joke several times, but it's only because it's true. When I was in my twenties, I played a lot of women in their forties. When I was in my forties, I played a lot of women in the fifties and sixties. And now that I'm in my fifties, I can't age up anymore. So now I'm only playing immortal characters.

Mickey Jo (3:17)

Still great roles in the West End for women in their 50s. As long as you're willing to play death. Death or undead.

Melanie La Barrie (3:23)

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Mickey Jo (3:25)

Yes. And then Mary Page Marlowe, you're playing. The official character listing is Nurse. Nurse, which is.

Melanie La Barrie (3:32)

It's Nurse.

Mickey Jo (3:32)

It's a throwback.

Melanie La Barrie (3:33)

Yeah, it's great. It's like, you know, it's like, how many times can I play a Trinidadinus in the West End? No, it was. Again, you know, when you read the play, it's just such an interesting thing. I know some people say it's like, how do you get, you know, people like Paul Thornley and Lauren Ward and Hugh Quashy and, you know, and even me to go in and play one scene and you go, well, because, you know what you're contributing to the whole, you know, there's so many reasons to be a part of that project. It's Matthew Wodges at the Old Vic, and I was in a production that was in his first season at the Old Vic. I was in the Lorax, like, 10 years ago. So it's an honor to be back for Matthew. Matthew, who gave me, I think, one of my most fun creations in the West End, Mrs. Phelps. So I, of course, had to say yes to that. But I've never done a Tracey Letts play before, so that's a great reason to just go and get your mouth around Tracy's perfectly formed words. And it's, you know, that's the thing about, you know, doing a play by Tracy Letts is that you don't have to work hard because it's all on the page for you. You just turn up. And then, of course, as I said, Susan, Sarandon, you sit there and you go, yeah, I want to work with Susan Sarandon. And we have such a terrific time on stage. It's just, it's two grownups just sitting on stage, listening to each other, having a talk, having a little twinkle at each other across the stage. And yeah, I love that woman and she's such an icon as well, and she's so iconic, but she's literally the most regular degular person you could just be around. She's such like a. Just there an actor with all the other actors, you know, and that's such a great thing. So to be able to do that, I had to, you know, when it came through, I said, oh gosh, you know, do I really need to play another nurse? You know, but yeah, I did, I did. For this particular project. Maybe I will never play another nurse. Don't say that because it might be. People love seeing me play a nurse. I don't know why.

Mickey Jo (5:45)

Have you done the Romeo and Juliet?

Melanie La Barrie (5:47)

I have, yes. I did it in 2017 at the Liverpool when the Liverpool rep was reprising. It's, you know, was bringing back the rep. I played the nurse in Romeo and Juliet and it was right before I played the nurse in and Juliet.

Mickey Jo (6:04)

I think you may have. Until people write new nurse, I think you may have covered them all for the time being.

Melanie La Barrie (6:10)

I think I have, I think I have. It's just like, all right, no more nurses. And then Riot Woman just started on the BBC when it was a couple nights ago and I'm on there playing Ann Reid's at home nurse at home carer. So I said, well, you know, there I am once again.

Mickey Jo (6:28)

I went to representation last night at your former home, the Lyric Theatre and Nina Wadia was hosting and she said she used to just get cast as nurses and she'd been told by a casting director she had nurses face. So that's it.

Melanie La Barrie (6:41)

It's so funny. When I used to go to class, I used to go to acting for film class when I was in New York. I used to go every day on my day off, every week for the time that I was there. I went to class and you know, there was one time we had a class and you sat there in front of the screen and then you asked the class, you know, what do you see me as? And I suppose some people, you know, you just. It's how people perceive you at the end of the day. Right. And I was never an ingenue. I was never, you know, the young spry thing. I always had I suppose a very mature energy. I don't particularly like children, but I also have a very weirdly maternal energy, you know, so it's. You know, people perceive it's what they want from you, and you can't be mad at that because it's. You know, we make art for people to perceive. And if people look at you and they go, oh, you're that person that I wish would care for me, then you have to go, well, then that's what I have to be. And now I'm death, so good luck with that.

Mickey Jo (7:43)

But you've also, by being Melnila Barry, blazed a pretty extraordinary trail through the West End and in a lot of beloved musicals, created a great many roles that now exist. And I think it was at Musical Con a little while ago, you were saying that that roles that you created with a Trinidadian accent that are now. That's the way they're characterized. That's the way they're portrayed. I'm thinking about Mrs. Phelps and Matilda, but also Mrs. Corrie back in Mary Poppins, and then, of course, creating the nurse in Aunt Juliet. Does it feel. Do you feel very proud of the impact that you've made, especially, like, back in the early 2000s?

Melanie La Barrie (8:21)

I guess I never really thought about it. I. Because I was doing these things, I think before social media, I know lots of people, you know, they. They have a whole thing about saying, this is the first this, and this is the first that. And I never really thought about it. I. I like. You know, it's kind of cool to be the first person to do something like when it was Wicked's 40th. I can't speak 40th anniversary. And it turned out I said I wasn't sure. And somebody messaged me and said, that's true. It was true that I was the first black woman to be cast as Madame Thenardier. I didn't get invited as Madame Marable as Madam. Madame, no. In. Not Wicked. In. In Les Mis. Les Mis. Yes, it was les mis. 40th. And I was the first black woman to be cast as Madame Thenardier. And then I think I was the first black woman to be cast in the role as Madame Morrible. And other people tell me that, because I don't know. I'm not gonna be searching, you know, the archives to find out, but that's what I've been told. And, you know, that's, like, pretty cool, but it's only cool if other people get to do it. And that's what I love about Making a. Is that. You know, it's the thing that I always say when I make a role, it's not for me. I'm not making a role for me. I'm making a role for other people who come after me. And if I could see all my little sisters, you know, and all my little cousins and all my friends, all my friendy friends go into a job because I've made it and I've made it in a way. I mean, they don't have to do the accent. The accent is just the way that I speak. And people just kind of say, oh, just do it in your own. It's not like a character choice. You know, it's like when people play British characters and they're just British and people who play like Americans, who play American characters and they just speak the way that they speak. I just speak like this, you know, it's not a. It's not a thing. I'm not trying to make a Trinidadian character. I'm just a character who speaks in a Trinidadian accent because that's how I was made. But it's so cool that to make something that other people who are like me get a chance to do, that's my job. That's what I come out for. I'm not here to be famous. I'm not here to be the first. I'm not here to like, you know, like blazing trails, you know, that's only cool if you blaze a trail that's permanent and you blaze a trail that other people can walk on. That. That's the point of that. I don't need no banners with my name on it. I don't need nobody to put up like a, you know, like there. I don't need Instagram posts. I just need to know that I'm doing work that other people that can reliably follow on in those. In the footsteps that I'm laying down, that people can follow on in those footsteps. And they're people that look like me.

Mickey Jo (10:54)

Yeah.

Melanie La Barrie (10:55)

Or are like me in some way. Because, you know, Kiala and I are twins.

Mickey Jo (10:59)

Uh huh.

Melanie La Barrie (11:00)

We are. We're 20 twins.

Mickey Jo (11:03)

When. When's she gonna do Hadestown? That's gonna be.

Melanie La Barrie (11:06)

I really wanted to do Hadestown, but I really wanted to be Persephone. Yeah. Because she'd just be a marvelous Persephone. Listen, if I was a casting director, I cast all my friends because I'd like Melinda to be Persephone as well. You know, I'd buy tickets to that. That's fantastic. Exactly. You Know, you just like these women, these fantastic women who could just do everything. And, you know, and I love seeing them on stage and loved seeing them shine and, you know, and, yeah, I love. That's what I want to see. I keep saying to them, I was like, you got to go in for this. You got to go do. It's like Paolo being Hades. I was harassing Paolo for months, maybe years, saying, paolo, you have to go in for it. And he was like, I don't think they'll see me. You know, I don't think. And I was like, paolo, you. You must go and do it. And now he's like, I really wish you were here doing it with me. And I said, oh, well, if they call me, if I'm asked, Broadway would.

Mickey Jo (12:04)

Be very lucky to have you back. And with that cast at the moment over at the Walter Kerr, they're getting a little bit of the flavor that happened at the Lyric when you reopened it here, because previous to this, it's sort of always been just a lot of American accents. But the great thing about the London production was you had Zachary, and you had yourself and you had Gloria, and we had midlands regional accents, and we had Irish accents, and we've had various Celtic Orpheuses. And it really empowers it to feel like this story of the world. And that's one of the many things that made your Hermes so fantastic.

Melanie La Barrie (12:39)

Thank you. Thank you so much. I really love playing that. I really love making that. And I hope I didn't take it too far away from the original conception, because you always want to honor the work, and you want to honor what people have created and what they've made. And again, it wasn't because I was trying to put my own spin on it, because if people. If somebody came and said, please stop, I would absolutely stop. But it was just the way that the character came to me. It's the force of me as a woman force of me as a Trinidadian force of the culture that I have. Cause I always say to people, too, is that you can't just. If you say that something is you want specifically the accent. You can't just want people to make funny noises. When you say you want something to happen in an accent, then you're asking people to bring their history, you're asking them to bring their ancestors, you're asking them to bring their cultures. The full force of the place is brought to bear on the thing that you make. And so when I made Hermes, it was very much not just talking in a Trinidadian accent while having American mannerisms. That would never work. It would be too incongruous. Even if it didn't appear incongruous to the eye receiving it, it would be incongruous in my body, and it would be something that I would be very unable to play. And so it was just me really just making. Making the thing from my heart while respecting what had been made and respecting the people who had made it.

Mickey Jo (14:09)

So, yeah, I'm curious about the way you initially approached it, because Andre de Shields originates the role on Broadway, Mr. Hermes in a suit and tie. And then ingenious replacement casting. Lillias White comes in in a very feminized bodice, Mrs. Hermes. And then it arrives back in the West End at the Lyric Theatre, and you are a Hermes in a suit and tie with no specific gendered pronouns. How much of that had come from you, and what was the reasoning behind that?

Melanie La Barrie (14:39)

I. It came when I was prepar for the audition. I hadn't seen the show. I hadn't barely listened to the show before I started auditioning for it, but I just couldn't say the words. Like, again, it has to be what's. You know, the thing that fits in my body and my mouth physically couldn't form around the words Mrs. Hermes. And I was like, this just feels so weird. It feels so odd to me to say Mrs. Hermes. Like, who is she? Is she wife of Hermes? Like, what? Because Mrs. In the way that they use it in America, is not really something that we use and understand here in the uk and it's not something we use and understand in the Caribbean. So I was like, it just doesn't feel right. I feel like if. And, you know, there was one point, Anais asked me if I would call myself Mr. Hermes. And I was like, yeah, sure. I'd happily do that, you know, because everything has to be right. And, you know, she's written it so specifically. But, yeah, so I just auditioned and I just said, yes, it's Hermes that's me, without putting a gender on it, because I felt that's just the way Hermes arrived to me. Cause a lot of the time, too, there is no thought going on in my head. A lot of the time, it's Elmo's song, you know, there's really not much. There's not much swimming around in there. And I just wait for things to arrive. I wait for. If some people call it inspiration. I just wait for the character to just kind of, like, fill me up. And when Hermes arrived to me, Hermes just arrived as Hermes without gender. And then in reading about it, I read a really cute little snippet that Hermes had asked Persephone to get married before Hades snatched her away, so that Hermes was in love with Persephone. And I was like, oh, that would be pretty cool to play. So I had this thing, and then it was, you know, and then a lot of, like, Audrey Hepburn and what's the. You know, they used to wear those great pants in the 50s.

Mickey Jo (16:48)

And I was like, oh, like Marlene Dietrich.

Melanie La Barrie (16:50)

Like Marlene Dietrich. And, yeah, it's like, you know, getting all that. And it was specifically a picture of Marlena that I went to the designers with. And I was like, it's this. This is what I have in my head. This is what. This is what's important. And I. Yeah, so. And then, you know, Michael, the designer, he said, you know, will we have Lilius in these corsets? And I was like, I want to wear the suit. I want to wear. This suit is so iconic. It's like, why would I not wear the suit? And so it was just all of those. It was like a building. Like, I didn't really think, but as I was going along, I was like, yeah, I can't. I don't have, you know, like, I don't have a gender, but I could wear a dress. You know, it's like. So that's what I was thinking as I. And it's not that I was playing specifically non binary Hermes, it's just that I was playing Hermes without form. And to play Hermes as a woman without form, then everything that I did was to kind of, you know, to confound expectations. So having the suit, having the asymmetric. So the asymmetric wig, I was like, God, you remember Victor, Victoria, you know, that kind of thing, you know, sin is always like. Because Hermes also, too, has this kind of trickster energy, is like, you can change form, you can be things. You can be, you know, that kind of stoic, if you'd like, masculine. I don't like these kind of these. You see, I can't talk about Hermes in any kind of gender terms because it just doesn't make sense.

Mickey Jo (18:21)

It's the entity that Hermes is an.

Melanie La Barrie (18:22)

Entity that can do everything. That you could be masculine and be maternal and be feminine and be stoic and be, you know, and that you could feel every emotion, feel all of it and contain it and encourage people to feel it. You know, it was a thing. It wasn't a fight. But, you know, they were like, you know, we would like that at the end of the show that you encourage the audience to feel better. And, you know, it's always a little naughty, naughty part of me that was like, why feel bad? You should feel bad. I told you in the beginning that it was a sad story and if you didn't pay attention. Because that's the thing, right? That's the thing about life. No, it's like.

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Melanie La Barrie (19:44)

If you don't go vote, then you get what you deserve, you know, Or. Or if you ask for a thing, then you can't be surprised when you get what you're given, you know, so if I tell you what's going to happen and then you don't pay attention.

Mickey Jo (20:00)

Why are you gasping? Why are you shocked?

Melanie La Barrie (20:02)

Why are you shocked? You know, and then. And then I must make you feel better. I said, absolutely not.

Mickey Jo (20:09)

Always the nurse, always the nurse.

Melanie La Barrie (20:11)

I'm like, learn your lesson. And so. But also, you know, I hope I did do it. I hope. But also, it's just, you know, is sometimes I always say I'm an existentialist with a small E in that I believe in the inherent sadness of life, but the joy or the resilience of existence is about making it through. It's about knowing that life is hard. It's difficult. Things don't always work the way that you want to do, but survive in any way. Which is kind of what the Book Thief is about. We're telling a story within of one of the most difficult periods of human existence. And saying that it's not just. And it's not just, you know, changing the world in big ways, but changing the world in small ways. And sometimes it's just surviving. That is your act of resistance. I always say, you know, my presence is my protest, is the fact that I turn up every day. The fact that I, as a black woman Keep turning up in these British musicals is my protest. It's my, you know, so I will be there. I will turn up. You know, my protest might be quieter than the way that other people protest, but I turn up. You know, I like existence as a form of resistance. So, yeah, so that. That. That's how. That was a long answer to how did you make Hermes? But perfect.

Mickey Jo (21:46)

I could listen to you talk about it endlessly. It's so interesting to me. And now we have to talk about the Book Thief. So tell us a little bit about what audiences can expect from the Book Thief in concert at the Prince of Wales.

Melanie La Barrie (21:59)

Well, it is. First of all, it's a stage presentation, semi stage presentation. I will say it that way, because, of course, we're on somebody else's set. So it wouldn't be a full set. It wouldn't be a full costumed production. There will be notes of it. But it is really about asking people to come be with us while we show you new material. So the show had been made before. This musical has been in development for nine years, which I said to the writers, it's the perfect amount of time to spend with a musical, because you can't make a musical in fewer than nine years because it's not gonna be right. You have to spend time with it. It takes. The gestation period for a brand new musical is a long time, and it's painful. So there's a lot of new material. There's a new conception of death. Because when you think about death, we often have ideas of, you know, big imposing figures and, you know, that, you know, that calm and linger gets you. And it was played by a wonderful human obi and who did a fantastic job.

Mickey Jo (23:14)

Beautiful voice.

Melanie La Barrie (23:14)

Oh, that voice is delicious. But we, you know, they wanted to have a rethink about it, and we kind of thought, what's the thing about death? It's a thing that we all have in common. It's kind of the only thing we all have in common, right, is that we die. So it's always present, but it's unnoticed until you have to regard it. So we thought, wouldn't it be really fun to make death as just somebody who's just kind of like hanging around, just like one of the people, you know, a little bit bumbly, a little bit, you know, just regular, nothing imposing, nothing special. But it's only when she's seen is when, you know, and to make her kind, because we wanted to, that even if people die in a horrendous way, that they meet Death perfectly. And then we, of course, have these beautiful children telling the story. So you don't want to have just, you know, something scary and imposing just following these kids the whole time, you know, so we wanted to. To also remind people of the great lightness of life in the face of death. You know, that life carries on and you have joy and you have laughter and you have family and you have friendship, even when, you know, life is dark and scary. And I think we need that message now more than ever because we live in unprecedented times and we need to be reminded that sometimes simple existence is the way we get through it.

Julie Kohler (25:04)

Yeah.

Mickey Jo (25:06)

You are a beloved icon of the musical theater community.

Melanie La Barrie (25:10)

It's so weird. I never see myself as an icon. Well, I mean, good, because I don't think you call yourself an icon and you can't call yourself a diva. Like, if anybody says, I'm a diva, you go, you are not a diva.

Mickey Jo (25:22)

Which I have never heard.

Melanie La Barrie (25:23)

No, no. But, you know, it's just like other people have to call you that. I just find it so weird because I'm, like, still, like, trying an actor, just, like, trying like everybody else, like, getting told no, you know, for self tapes and, you know, so it's so weird when people go, you, I'll be love. And like, oh, my God, tell the people who, like, I keep sending these self tapes to, but a lot.

Mickey Jo (25:45)

But along the way, you have really affected and uplifted a lot of young actors that you have worked with. And this is what we hear endlessly about the brilliance of Melanie Labra. It's not only the magic that you create offstage, it's also on stage. I should say it's also what you do for companies off stage.

Melanie La Barrie (26:04)

I love, because again, you know, I talk about what my job is. What is the purpose? I always say when I join a new company, I say, I want you to think about the kind of person you decide to be in this world. How are you going to turn up? I want you to think about the kind of artist you want to be. How will you be thought of? Right. How are you going to contribute? What are you going to give when you go into a space to make art with other people? How are you going to make other people feel when they're around you? You know, you want people, when they see you come through the door, you want them to go, oh, yeah. Or you want them to go, she's here.

Mickey Jo (26:46)

Yeah.

Melanie La Barrie (26:48)

So to me, that's very important. Also, my job is to. Nobody asks for it, but to tell people What? I know.

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Melanie La Barrie (27:19)

Break up with bland breakfast and taste AM PM's bacon, egg and cheese biscuit made with cage free eggs, smoked bacon and melty cheese on a buttery biscuit. Am P M. Too much good stuff. That is my work. You know, I can't. I didn't go to drama school. I hardly ever know what it is I'm doing. But my job is if I collect some information, other people must have it.

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Melanie La Barrie (27:47)

Just in case because it might have another actor who didn't go to drama school and don't know. So I'm like, let me just say it out loud to everybody else just so that everybody has the information also. It's like, it's one of the last community spaces we have is making theater. Like, community spaces are being ripped away from us everywhere in the world. You know, people like have to fight to like have choirs and, you know, have art spaces and have community centers. So to get to come into a space and make something with somebody, it's like, oh, this is just so cool. And you know, I take, I take being an elder very seriously. You know, I also, I demand a lot of respect around me as well, because I'm not playing with these little children. Don't play with me. I'm not doing that. But also it is my duty to care for people. And it is because I was cared for when I was coming up, you know, by the Julia Suttons of this world, by the Jenny Galloways of this world. You know, I was taught things and told things and, you know, nurtured. You know, in my first Western show, I watched Maria Friedman show me how to be a leading lady, you know, and how to hold herself with grace. I watched that, you know, I watched Susie McKenna, you know, lead rooms with kindness and, you know, with. With great vulnerability and great strength at the same time and with a great sense of fun. Sharon D. Clark showed me how to be in a space as a singular person and command respect. You know, I see people like Noma Dumizwini doing parts and roles that, oh my gosh, you wouldn't think and be so excellent. I met her the other day and I was like the craziest little fangirl I was literally. She had just come to see the play and she was, like, trying to tell me what, you know, that she thought I was good. And I was like, oh, my gosh, it's normal. So I was so excited because again, for me, it's like you say something like, I am and dies. The greatest entrance and exit ever. That was Cat Simmons, everybody. Brilliant. The brilliant Cat Simmons. Yeah, yeah. You know, you say, you know, you are an icon, but for me, I am a fun girl that have been poured into by so many incredible people. So my job is to pour into all the people that I get to be around, you know, and you're just watching people. I love watching people be excellent. I get to come in and watch Cat Simmons and Jack Lord do scenes and I'm like, this is amazing. I get to watch little girls, Estella and Blake. I have to call them young actors now. I have to be careful how to regard them. Can't call them kids, but, you know, but watch these young people be so excellent and prepared and I'm like, wow, there's so much. They receive so much and they just do it. There's no. Would my character say it like that? And there's none of that. There's no ego. And you go, oh, this is great. So, yeah, I get to teach, but every day I'm also taught. And I think I always want that cycle of energy to be passing through me. Yeah.

Mickey Jo (31:40)

Yeah. I could ask you questions about your wealth of experience and knowledge in the industry for hours, but I need to let you get back to rehearsal for the Book Thief. I cannot wait to come and see it.

Melanie La Barrie (31:50)

You coming?

Mickey Jo (31:51)

I'm coming on the 19th.

Melanie La Barrie (31:52)

Yay.

Mickey Jo (31:52)

But audiences can also see it on the 26th of this month and they can catch you at the Old Vic in Mary Page Marlowe until the first of November.

Melanie La Barrie (31:59)

That's it. Yeah.

Mickey Jo (32:00)

And then hopefully another rest.

Melanie La Barrie (32:02)

That's not. No, there's not another rest. I'll see you again very shortly.

Mickey Jo (32:09)

I look forward to finding out. I look forward to it. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.

Melanie La Barrie (32:14)

Of course.

Mickey Jo (32:14)

Make sure to get your tickets to see Melnila Barry on stage as Death in the book thief for three performances only on the 19th and 26th of October, or for the rest of this month in Mary Page Marlowe at the Old Vic. I hope you enjoyed listening to Melnie speak as much as I always do. If you did, make sure to subscribe to my theatre themed YouTube channel or follow me on podcast platforms for more interviews. With theater stars coming very soon. And in fact, if there's one you're particularly eager to hear, let me know in the comments section down below. In the meantime, I hope, as always, that everyone is staying safe and that you have a stagey day. For 10 more seconds, I'm Micky Jo Theatre. Oh my God. Hey, thanks for watching. Have a stagey day.

Melanie La Barrie (32:55)

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