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MickeyJoTheatre
The problem with curtain calls | Thoughts on applause at the theatre, and whether we do it too much
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Miki Jo
Hello, Pablo Torre here, host of the Murrow Award winning and Peabody nominated show Pablo Torre Finds out from the Athletic, where we use journalism to investigate mysteries like whether the richest owner in sports helped fund a no show job for his NBA superstar. In other words, Kawhi Leonard got from aspiration a $28 million no show.
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Yeah, it's amazing. I'm honestly so jealous.
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Miki Jo
Or how our friend Action Bronson feels about covering his calves. When was the last time you wore pants?
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I don't. Probably 15 to 20 years. The last time I put pants on.
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Miki Jo
I had an accident three times a week. Follow us down the rabbit hole on Pablo Torre Finds out. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
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ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com wow Mickey Joe, I can't believe that you hate standing ovations. Wow Mickey Joe, I can't believe that you don't want to clap when you go to the theater. Wow Mickey Joe, I can't believe you hate theater. What can I say? You got me. And also, welcome to my notifications. And I feel it may be beneficial here for us to just back up a little bit and discuss. Oh my God. Hey, welcome back to my theatre themed YouTube channel. Or hello to you if you are listening to this on podcast platforms. My name is Miki Jo and I am obsessed with all things theatre. I am a professional theatre critic and a content creator and pundit here on social media. Which means that for better or worse, for better or worse, I spend the vast majority of my life sitting here talking to you, the tiny people in my camera, and bringing theatrical hot takes to the Internet. I loudly broadcast the many, many different opinions that I have about many, many, many different things within the world of theatre. Different performances, different shows, different theatrical conventions and sometimes different parts of the theatre going experience. And a couple of weeks ago, while I was reviewing the Hunchback of Notre Dame in Concert at the Prince Edward Theatre in the West End, I shared a brief little tangential thought about something that I have seen happening with standing Ovations in London this summer across simply two different productions. I do feel that we need to have a conversation. 5 minute plus standing ovations. Not a massive trend, but something that I was hoping that we could nip in the bud before it becomes a growing trend because I fear that it has dangerous ramifications. And I will explain what I mean by that. But the context for expanding on this conversation today is that I cut that into a little bit of a snippet and I shared it across social media and it was a statement that proved divisive. I was essentially saying that I don't want us to start experiencing these multi minute frame forced standing ovations. I think a lot of the responses to what I said, which were very much in disagreement with me, may have been based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what I was saying, because people seem to be suggesting that I thought those shows didn't deserve standing ovations. And we kind of transitioned in the comments into a conversation about whether or not standing ovations in and of themselves should be obligatory. And I wasn't actually talking about people standing up in the theater. I was talking about something those two shows did a little bit differently that I didn't like. But I'm going to clarify that today as we a bigger conversation about applause in the theatre. When do we applaud? Should we applaud? Is this different in different places? Spoiler alert. Yes. Yes it is. And what exactly in my opinion is wrong with the prolonged standing ovations that have been happening all summer at Evita, at the London Palladium and the Hunchback of Notre Dame in Concert and for all we know, more shows as we head into a very exciting next couple months of theatre. That is what we are going to be talking about today, I will be sharing my opinions, but as always, I would love to hear yours. Let me know your thoughts on applause and O in the theatre on Broadway, in the West End and worldwide in the comments section down below. And if you want to hear more of my theatrical thoughts and you haven't already subscribed to my theatre themed YouTube channel, then what are you doing with your life? Hit that subscribe button, turn on those notifications so you know when I post all of my next videos or go follow me on podcast platforms. And if you really like what I have to say, then feel free to applaud me for multiple minutes after this is done. I won't know that you are, but you could. Perhaps you could let me know. Anyway, let us just dive right into this conversation. How and when should we be applauding at the theatre? So, as per usual, we're going to have an extensive nuanced conversation about this to really try and understand what applause means within the theatrical space. And I am going to talk to you about that issue that I was trying to articulate in Evita and Hunchback, but we're going to drive all the way up to it by first considering a really broad when do we applaud in the theatre? And I think the most universal answer to this is perhaps on two different occ. But to my mind, there are four different types of applause that you can experience in the theatrical space. Perhaps there's a fifth that I'm not considering. Actually, there is a fifth and I'll tell you what it is, but it's really niche. Two of these types of applause are pretty much worldwide. One of them is the most obvious. It's the one that we're going to be talking about today. It's the applause that you experience at the end of a theatrical production, at the end of the entire performance when you applaud. And traditionally the actors appear on stage and bow, indicating perhaps to the band, perhaps the conductor will bo on behalf of the band. Perhaps we also indicate to the technical booth, to the technical team, as we ought to. Sometimes we're indicating to the stagehands, to the crew as well, which I always enjoy. Sometimes they take to the stage as well. If it's been a particularly technical show, I'm thinking about Sarah Snook in the Picture of Dorian Gray. But that is the most obvious version of applause and the most superlative version of that is the standing ovation. We are going to talk about this type of applause later on, but first, when else do we applaud in the theatre. Well, the second most obvious one, the that I think is experienced globally, is applause after different sections of a piece. In musical theatre, this is at the end of a particular song. Sometimes you go see a musical and there is a break for applause at the end of every single song. It helps if songs are written with a little button on the end indicating to audiences that now is the moment that you should APPLAUSE Sometimes in developing new musicals, you notice that they want the audience to applaud, but it's not really happening instantly, or that it's slightly tentative. And that can be because there's not a well enough written button. I remember reading about golden age musical theatre songs where they were kind of experiencing this and noticing that things had to be tweaked and changed. I think somewhere in west side Story was having a little bit of this kind of a problem because of the way it sort of hangs there at the end and doesn't give the audience an obvious, like, bomb bomb. But there are other shows, interestingly, which don't really offer the audience much of an opportunity to applaud. I'm thinking about Come From Away, a show in which there are very few applause opportunities. You can applaud at the end of the whole screech sequence, but you don't get to applaud after Me in the sky because it gets interrupted by dialogue. The version that you sometimes hear out of context in performances where the final line is completed, Me and the sky is not the version that appears in the show. So on occasions like that, you actually can't applaud. And sometimes, as a result, you then feel a bigger relief of applause and ovation at the end because the audience hasn't had as many opportunities to congratulate and celebrate the performances throughout the show. And that's in the world of musicals. You do sometimes get this in plays as well, because sometimes a particular line is so satisfying, or sometimes a character says something that is sort of politically charged or a particular call to action, or is very defiant. And sometimes you get a little bit of a moment of applause. Sometimes something resonates with something that's happening politically or socially in the world. There was a moment like this in the play POTUS when they were talking about women's rights to bodily autonomy and how that ought to be a fundamental human right. I saw a clip of this shared on Socials. That's how I know that there was applause happening in that part of the play. But, yeah, not just something that happens in musicals. So those are the first Two types of applause. Applause at the end and applause throughout the thing. The third type of applause, and this can sometimes be divisive and different between audiences in different parts of the world, is entrance applause. Now, this very much seems to be something that happens far more on Broadway than it does in. In the West End or elsewhere around the world. Entrance applause pretty much seems to be a Broadway kind of a concept. And it's something that my stagey fiance, Erin James, and I were just discussing this evening as I spoke about, sitting down to have this conversation. Because you get an interesting phenomenon sometimes where a show will have been written for a Broadway audience and it will then transfer to a different part of the world where the entrance applause doesn't happen, but the moment for it is still written into the show. Wicked is a great example for this. Elphaba has a little swelling in the music when she runs out onto the stage. And sometimes she is still applauded in the West End, particularly at cast change shows, especially when it reopened after the Pandemic. But on a regular Tuesday night, she's probably not getting entrance applause in that moment. And it's fine because it's not a moment of awkward silence. There's music underneath. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. But that does feel like that's what that moment was originally created for. Similarly, Glinda can have a little bit of a pause in the bubble before she delivers her first line. When they say, look, it's Glinda, and she flies onto the stage. That's an applause moment for sure. But because it's such a thing on Broadway, you see it in a whole bunch of shows, including some where they're not really necessarily prepared for it, especially if that show has originated elsewhere with audiences who weren't giving entrance applause. I remember a friend of mine came to see Jonathan Bailey playing Richard II at the Bridge Theatre in London and tried to give him entrance applause and got angrily shushed by the. By the London theatre goers around him, which just feels so on brand for everyone involved in that situation. And you know what? I'm not about to criticize anyone who feels moved to applaud at the mere sight of Jonathan Bailey in their presence. I think we can all understand that. But some people get really mad at the idea of entrance applause and they say that a. It like interrupts the flow of the show and it takes away from the character that they ought to be playing because you're clapping for them as the actor and not the character that they are in the show. And also that they haven't done anything yet. To which I say, I think it's a lovely way to start work. And it's also something that happens when you go see comedians. When they come out on stage, they arrive to applause. It's something that happens really, when you go and sort of see anyone in like a speaking engagement or I guess at concerts as well. Do they begin with applause? Certainly cheers as concerts begin. It's just an indicator of enthusiasm. And it's a nice way of providing energy at the start of someone's performance that they can then carry through the rest of that performance. It's nice to know that you're being welcomed by a house full of excited audience members. And I also think it's weird to criticize applauding anyone. I always get very upset when people say that it's weird to clap when the plane lands. I think if anything, we should applaud more people at work. I think it shouldn't just be reserved for actors. I think we should be applauding pilots who have flown us from one continent to another. I think that's remarkable. And the least we can do is applaud them. I think you should be clapping your Starbucks barista if you get a particularly lovely beverage. I think we should be applauding in our day to day. I didn't get applauded very much by my students when they passed their GCSE exams. And frankly, I feel like I deserved it some days. Anyway, entrance applause is the third type of applause we can experience in the theater. And before I move on, my thoughts on it are that I like it more in more classic shows. And it's not even a time period thing. It's a tone thing in a show like Just in Time on Broadway starring Jonathan Groff. Entrance applause, perfect. There's also more of an open fourth wall, broken rapport between him and the audience, so it makes sense. But I'm also thinking about Reno Sweeney's delicious entrance in Anything Goes. When the bartender says, there was a lady who came in here looking for you, and she enters and says, he's wrong, Billy, it was only me. You've got to applaud at that moment. That's perfect for it. But there's a lot of contemporary musicals where it doesn't make nearly as much sense. Like, I don't feel like we need to give entrance applause to every character in Next to Normal, for example, or even a show Ragtime. Certainly not something like a Les Mis. Like, it makes sense in some instances, but not in others. Moving on. What is the fourth type of applause. Well, this is the applause at the very commencement of a show. It's the applause that happens when the lights go down. It's the applause that happens while the introductory tannoy message is happening. It's the applause at the very beginning of an overture that indicates a performance is about to start. I love this because it speaks to a really excited audience and it's something I've experienced more recently, more since theaters have reopened after the 2020 theatrical shutdown. And I think it conveys a real gratitude about the existence of theatre. I love this type of applause. I think it's lovely. I think it's meaningful. I think it's a shared excitement and positivity. And I say this as someone who, having gone to a lot of press nights and having gone to a lot of, like, important British plays, has experienced a lot of audiences that can feel a little bit obnoxious and a little bit pretentious. And sometimes you're in an audience with people who are going to the theatre because it's something that they feel like they ought to do and it's a play that ought to be seen and they're not really delighting in the experience with complete enthusiasm. And the best kind of audience is one where everyone is so thrilled to be there. And I feel a greater sense of that since theatres reopened because, you know, we really appreciate what theatre is now, since we had to go without it for such a long. But that one I'm particularly curious about. And I think you experience it more with shows that really lean into the excitement of that moment. Disney always does a good pre show message. The one they used to do for Frozen used to make me cry. I don't know if they still do this for any of their shows, but they would say, if this is anyone's first time at the theater, then, like, we're honored to welcome you and hope this is a lifetime spent. It was something to that effect. It was a really beautiful message. And I like a good, like, good evening and welcome to Wicked. And then everyone will applaud things like that. But I'm curious if that happens in other places around the world. I think probably more for big commercial musicals than anything else. Now, those are the four types of applause. And as I was saying, therefore it did occur to me there was a fifth one, but it's really specific. And this is applause that happens when something goes wrong. And it can be an actor corpsing on stage and you laugh at that. And then there's usually a little moment of clapping to acknowledge that it's happened, or something like a tech hold or a show stop and someone will come out and announce a stage manager perhaps, that they need to pause for a moment or reset a scene or fix something when it then does get fixed and the audience can see that it's been resolved, or when the thing is about to restart or they announce this, or even before they fixed it, when they say we're just going to take care of this will be a few moments. Usually you then experience a very nice and very generous applause. And the reason I point this one out, obviously it's a very specific situation, is because I think all of these examples show that the applause is representative of enthusiasm and joy. And I like when it happens organically. 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Me so there's more to say about clapping and I'll get to it, but I don't want to make you wait for this particular revelation any longer. I am not against standing ovations. I know it feels like they happen all the time now, and it feels like they're no longer discriminatory between good shows and bad shows. And everything gets a standing ovation out of obligation. We're going to talk about It. But that is not my issue. That is not my beef on this occasion. My beef is with prolonged standing ovations where the clapping is sustained for longer than an audience otherwise would. And when the choice to keep clapping is taken away from an audience. I believe in a curtain call, the audience should hold all the power and the length of that curtain call and the extent of it should be dictated by the audience and not by the way it's been staged. My issue is this. Please listen carefully because if my thoughts on this are misrepresented in the comments one more time, I'm going to cry. Innovita. The lights came up. The full company bowed on stage. The principals then left so that the phenomenally talented ensemble could all bow together. After this, the principals would then walk down the steps of the set over Bow's music and they would take turns to bow, finishing with Rachel Zegler. She would bow and thank the theater and look very emotional and then gather the rest of the company around her and take a company bow. At this point, the music would come to an end and they would continue to bow for a very long time. Because Evita is such an entertaining show, because this production was so energetic and so fantastic, the audience at the Palladium instinctively leapt to their feet at the end of this performance. I don't begrudge that. I was in the audience three times and I did that three times. It absolutely made sense to. I understood the imperative. It deserved a multi level standing ovation. My issue is that the music ends, they are stood on stage and they keep bowing for ages and they don't bow that quickly. They bow and then they stand there for what feels like a lifetime staring at us, looking bewildered, despite the fact that this happened exactly the same way nightly. And then after 20 seconds have passed, they bow again. And then we repeat the whole thing for honestly about five minutes. We have these five minute long standing ovations where they're just standing there staring at us and we keep clapping. And the problem is that this is not how it's supposed to work. And for a police polite British audience, if you keep us in that situation, all we are going to do is continue to clap. We're not going to suddenly stop clapping. We're not going to abruptly leave before the cars do. That's unthinkable. But at a certain point, you know, we do have trains to catch. We do have places that we need to be. London does not stay open all night. Famously, it is the city that sleeps. And so we need this to start to Wind down at some point. And the only way that we as an audience know to kind of accelerate through this and make it end is to keep clapping. Clapping is, in fact, the only we can do to move this forward. That's our side of the bargain. And the cast at some point have to make the decision to leave the stage. And once you take that into account, you realize that it's sort of a hostage situation in the theater. It's a semi abusive relationship here. Because if they keep standing there, we have to keep clapping. It stops being our decision. I've seen a lot of theater around the world, and something really interesting happened when I went to the Theatre du Chatelet in Paris to see Les Miserables. If they really love something, they start to applaud board in this sort of unison way where it becomes almost like a football clap situation, where it's like, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, and everyone syncs up together. But also, that production kept having the cast come out and bow, lowering the curtain. And if the applause continued and was of a high enough volume, the curtain would go back up and they would bow again. And you repeat this. This is, I believe, a more traditional version of the curtain call. And when they used to say, like the company on their opening night took eight curtain calls, it's because that was repeated. Repeated eight times. And that, I think, is fair enough, because that audience is choosing to prolong that the curtain goes down, we keep clapping. That means we want the curtain to go back up. But if there's no curtain to come down, and if the cast don't leave the stage, and if they don't attempt to keep bowing, then it's not real. It's an artificial way of prolonging it. And I don't know what the purpose it's serving is. The Hunchback of Notre Dame in concert did this, perhaps unwittingly, over their three performances at the Prince Edward Theatre. This one actually felt more egregious because they were staring at us for such a long time, again, looking around, looking slightly bewildered about the whole thing. And there was evidently an awful lot of enthusiasm from the audience. The clapping was going on and on and on. But it's also not like it was going to stop abruptly while they were still standing there and staring at us. If they'd continue to bow consistently and dim the lights and brought them back up or left and returned to the stage and we'd kept clapping, then again, that would be fine. I wouldn't have an issue with that. But it's holding Us hostage in that transactional relationship that bothers and irritates me. And why does it irritate me? You might be asking, why do I care this much about something that doesn't seem that important? Well, my concern is that this is going to start getting manipulated for social media. The bows from Hunchback. The bows from Evita's opening night were both posted on social media. The bows from the final night of Evita were commented on, I think Andrew Lloyd Webber, Sir Lord Andrew Lloyd Webber, said that it was the longest curtain call in the history of the London Palladium. I don't know if it was the most enthusiastic, but it was the longest. And this kind of a statistic, and this idea of competitive duration is not something that we need to see in the world of theatre. It's something that you notice in the world of film festivals and it becomes performative and pointless and it reaches such a sizable duration. Is it the Venice Film Festival or Cannes, where things get reported on afterwards and they say this got a 16 minute standing ovation afterwards? And if something only gets like an eight minute standing ovation, that's meant to be terrible, which is ridiculous. Does it not sound ridiculous? Ridiculous. I repeat, people have trains to catch. People have places to be. Do you know who else has trains to catch? Actors. Actors have trains to catch. There is a good reason why you do not see this happening on Broadway, even though you're seeing it right now in the West End. And that is because people have places to be. New Yorkers have places to be and they have union regulations. If the show was to carry on for that many more minutes, people backstage would be working overtime. And per union regulations, they would have to get paid a large amount of time, money. So it's in no one's best interests to have the bows go on and on and on. My other theory is that they're trying to instill in audiences the idea that they must have had a really fantastic time, because look at this huge ovation. I've never applauded for so long. I've never stood for so long. I've never known people to keep clapping for five minutes. It must be the best thing I've ever seen. And in both these instances, they were great shows. But I don't think that meant they were the best thing you'd ever seen. They might have been, to your mind, the best thing you'd ever seen, but if you thought that only because of the applause afterwards, I feel you may have been conned. Because the reality is, if the Bows weren't structured. If the bows weren't set to music, and if the cast didn't leave the stage and force the audience to sit down, stop clapping and exit the theatre, then they would also last for five minutes every night at Hamilton. They would also last for five minutes every night at Les Mis, at the Phantom of the Opera, at Operation Mincemeat, at My Neighbor Totoro, all around the West End. If they did the same thing, if they had the cast just stand there and keep bowing, audience members would have no choice but to stay on their fe and continue clapping. Those shows just grant you the dignity of not having to do that by setting the bows to music or eventually having the cast leave the stage, turning on the house lights and beginning to play exit music. Hunchback could have done that whenever they wanted. It was their choice to wait and force us to all stand and clap for five minutes until my hands literally hurt. And if that's true, and the plan is to try and engender in audiences the idea that they must have had an extraordinary time because of this vast, prolonged standing ovation, I don't think that makes as much sense as people might think. Because arguably you're more enthusiastic about something. If you only get to applaud for one minute and you had four more minutes of applause in you that you don't get to share, it means you go out onto the street still wanting to clap, still having that enthusiasm, and instead you're going to share that online, you're going to have to tell your friends, people around you, you're going to text people about it, you're going to want to talk to about it when you get home or in the office the next day. You don't want them to deplete all that enthusiasm or worse, start to resent the show because they've had to applaud it for so long, or missed their train, or stood for an uncomfortable amount of time. The one thing that is missing from this entire conversation about standing ovations is the audience members who can't comfortably stand, who can't quickly jump to their feet, or who are perhaps wheelchair users, non ambulatory wheelchair users who can't stand whatsoever, who get excluded from these curtain call moments because the people in front of them, if the wheelchair spaces aren't accommodating of this or aren't elevated enough, are in fact blocking their view. And think how exclusionary and upsetting it is when we use language like every single audience member leapt to their feet afterwards. If you're A wheelchair user who couldn't and didn't. And you know, for one minute of a standing ovation, that's just a challenging reality. For five minutes it becomes obnoxious. And so that is the issue. That is what I have experienced at a couple of shows this summer. I do not want to keep experiencing it. I don't think it's beneficial for the theater industry or for other shows. And I think it's cheating. I think it's cheating to suggest that Evita was getting longer standing ovations than any other show in the West End all summer. It's just that Evita wasn't doing them properly. But there's also, beyond those two instances and beyond this particular issue, more that we can say, I think, about the concept of applause and of standing ovation. So let's consider some other perspectives.
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Podcast Host
This. Now, what's really interesting is when I shared this thought and tried to articulate that point that I was just sharing, it ignited a separate conversation, one that has gone on for a while now, about standing ovations in general and whether they've started to feel obligatory and whether they no longer mean anything, to which my immediate response is usually, so what if they don't? And I think, you know, people feel the same way about this as they do about shows getting five star reviews. I know a lot of people who resent the fact that a lot of shows, you know, if they invite enough critics and enough different publications can all get a five star review or a great quote from somewhere, and it kind of diminishes the values of those different critical perspectives. Perspectives, which is why audiences should pay less attention to what they put on posters and more attention to the critics and the outlets that they trust. And I really do understand the perspective of wanting a standing ovation to mean something and wanting to be able to distinguish between those really genuinely special theatrical experiences that have connected to you, that have compelled you to stand and the ones that were just, you know, a great night at the theatre, but not quite on that side, same level, or didn't connect to you and reach you in quite the same way. I also think, you know, it's weird because a partial standing ovation, we've now sort of been conditioned to feel like that looks uncomfortable. That's what I think of it at least. But I think it's sometimes more interesting to be able to see those audience members who really connected to it and for them to be able to more personally offer their thanks. I think it's really special to see the first person who stands up because they're not doing it out of obligation. They're not doing it because the person in front of them has blocked their view. They're not doing it because of peer pressure. Pressure. They're doing it because they feel compelled to. And you sometimes just want to know who the people are who felt compelled. Sometimes that can be everyone. Sometimes it's a small handful of people. Maybe sometimes it's around half the auditorium. The way it usually seems to work is that musicals in general feel more likely to get a standing ovation than plays do. And I don't know if that's because it's a slightly more commercial, theatre going audience who goes to see a musical than a play. I would say if you're sat in the stools or the orchestra level, then it's more likely that a standing ovation will begin there before filtering to the upper levels of the theater. Do you know what's really exciting is when all of the different levels simultaneously start getting on their feet at the same time. That's when you know it's really special, when it's just an instant, like, oh, we all know we're standing up in this moment. I think it's really only a few times a year that I feel the sense in me of like, I must stand. A lot of times when I do it now, I will wait until the person in front of me stands and then I will stand, stand. And there have been occasions when I've wanted to stand. I haven't felt the impulse necessarily, but I've. I've wanted there to be a standing ovation, but I don't want to be the person who blocks the view of the person behind me. So I won't until it happens. I tend to be someone who participates in a standing ovation out of sort of respect of height levels and things. But in general, I think plays more than musicals. And downstairs and then it goes upstairs. I've certainly been at shows where they've stood downstairs and they haven't started standing in the circle. Also, the circle is raked, so there's less of a feeling that they might have to. And there's something to be said, perhaps, for standing when you're downstairs and being more at the eye line of the actors or feeling closer to the actors. When you're in the circle, you're more separated, so it doesn't necessarily feel like you need to. I also, and this is why I would love to hear your thoughts in the comments, have something of a skewed perspective of this because I go and see a lot of press nights and opening nights, and then you get standing ovations happening pretty commonly because the audience is full of the marketing team who worked on the show, friends and family of the actors, swings in the show who are watching, the writers, the creatives, the producers, the investors, their guests, people who have been invited to the show to be enthusiastic, people who know that a standing ovation is what they want. It's the opening night buzz, it's the energy. We've perhaps been given free wine. So it's very rare for me at this point to go to shows that don't have some kind of a standing ovation. And it's really telling when it does, particularly on a press night. And it starts to feel sort of damning at this point if people sit down and applaud, which is a shame because applauding is still meant to denote celebration. So sitting and applauding ought not to feel as passive aggressive as it does. But because standing ovations are becoming more and more the norm, a sitting ovation starts to feel a little bit cold. It's like when I drop the word kind or the word warm from kind regards or warm regards in my email. So signature, and I simply say regards, which, as a British person, means I'm furious at you, by the way. It's at this point that anyone who I've ever emailed watching this video, who has received regards, Mickey, Joe, knows exactly where they stand with me. And I stand by that. That's. That's exactly what I meant. That was not an accident. Anyway. There's probably also something to be said for standing ovations being a little bit more common on Broadway than in the West End, but I think in general, we're kind of starting to see them happening more everywhere.
- [34:05]
Advertiser
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- [34:05]
Podcast Host
And if that's born of, like I said before, an enthusiasm for people getting to go back to the theater and a celebration of the return of that experience, then that's a great and positive thing. And I don't want to take away from that or diminish that or suggest that that cheapens the experience in any way. But one other school of thought that has been raised is that, you know, as we always say, theater ticket prices are not inexpensive and they have been increasing on either side of the Atlantic. Atlantic. And so this sort of spectacle of celebration, these massive standing ovations, and these prolonged standing ovations are a way for an audience to convince themselves that this has been wonderful and that it was worth all of the money that they paid. And so it's sort of an act of self delusion as much as anything else. I think that's really interesting. And not that I've done an awful lot here to offer anything resembling any kind of a solution or a suggestion. I don't want to tell people what to do when they go into a theater. I mostly just go curious to hear what you all may have to say about the way that this differs in other places worldwide. You know, I've only seen theatre in a handful of different countries and I'd love to hear about different cultural responses to this. But one thing that I would genuinely advocate for is a return to other means of congratulation and celebration at the end of a theatrical performance. Because I feel nowadays we just clap or we stand and clap. Sometimes someone might whisper, whistle. If it's a very engaged and outspoken audience, then you might get like a yass or a woohoo. But I would like us to return to. I assume they were operatic conventions of when people would offer a brava, a bravi, a bravissimi, a bravo. Of course, if you want to celebrate men on stage, you know, men. Men also deserve applause. I just, just forgot about them for a moment. There is, of course, the throwing of flowers, usually now reserved for sort of a prior organization. These will be brought on by stage manager, offered by specific people. It's very rare that I see flowers presented on stage in a way that hasn't been planned. It's interesting that one show that found its own version of this over the last few years within its fan culture was Heather's, where people started to throw scrunchies onto the stage, which began as something fun and ended as something that needed a risk assessment and a hazard warning. But you know what? We're all creative and inventive theatrical types and I am sure that we can come up with, with some other way of offering a new means of celebration in curtain calls. And maybe over time, as the memories of the theatrical shutdown become more and more distant in the rear view mirrors of our collective memory, we will see fewer standing ovations happening out of obligation. Maybe a new upper echelon of really fantastic performances will arise where it becomes a standing ovation and then this extra thing as well. Who knows, who knows what the future may hold at the theater? Whatever happens though, hopefully the power stays with the people and it is up to audiences to decide how that curtain call is going to go. I know it's ridiculous that I care this much, I just think it matters. But as I mentioned before, that is just what I think. And I would love to know your opinions about all of this as well. What do we think about entrance applause? What do we think about cultural differences of applause around the world? And what do you you think about these prolonged, perhaps performative, multi minute standing ovations at shows like the Hunchback of Notre Dame and Evita? Don't go back to the comments and tell me the same thing everyone else has been telling me that it was just a very special performance and you know, it was even better than most things. The West End and Broadway are filled with special performances. Shows are fantastic all year round on either side of the Atlantic. I see sensational pieces of theatre every week, every month, and they are not inferior simply because they elect to leave the stage. Please share all of your thoughts and feelings on this topic in the comments section down below. And if you want to hear more of my theatrical opinions, if this one hasn't exhausted you, then feel free to subscribe to my theatre themed YouTube channel. Hit that button that looks like a bell somewhere, somewhere down here so that YouTube lets you know on your device every time I post a new YouTube video or go follow me on podcast platforms. I hope you enjoyed this PSA from me, perhaps even even enough for a standing ovation. And I hope as always, that everyone is staying safe and that you have a stagey day for 10 more seconds. I'm Minky Jo Theatre. Oh my God. Hey, thanks for watching. Have a stagey day. Subscribe.
- [38:36]
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Miki Jo
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Podcast Host
I'm way too tired to cook tonight.
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Podcast Host
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's the show that we recommend.
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Miki Jo
Hello, Pablo Torre here. Host of the Murrow Award winning and Peabody nominated show Pablo Torre finds out from the Athletic, where we use journalism to investigate mysteries. Mysteries like whether the richest owner in sports helped fund a no show job for his NBA superstar. In other words, Kawhi Leonard got from aspiration a $28 million no show job.
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Podcast Host
Yeah, it's amazing. I'm honestly so jealous.
- [40:27]
Miki Jo
Or how our friend Action Bronson feels about covering his calves. When was the last time you wore pants?
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Podcast Host
I don't. Probably 15 to 20 years. Last time I put pants on I.
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Miki Jo
Had an accident three times a week. Follow us down the rabbit hole on Pablo Torre finds out. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
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Podcast Host
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