Podcast Summary:

MickeyJoTheatre – The Problem with Curtain Calls | Thoughts on Applause at the Theatre, and Whether We Do It Too Much
Host: MickeyJoTheatre
Date: September 22, 2025

Overview

In this episode, theatre critic and content creator Mickey Jo delves into the nuances of applause at live theatre, with a special focus on the growing phenomenon of prolonged curtain calls and standing ovations, particularly in London's West End. Prompted by divisive reactions to his social media comments about recent shows like Evita and Hunchback of Notre Dame in Concert, Mickey Jo examines the meanings, traditions, cultural differences, and possible drawbacks of various forms of theatrical applause. The conversation is a candid, reflective, and often witty exploration of what applause really signifies and how evolving trends might subtly reshape the live theatre experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Backstory: Why Curtain Calls?

• Context: The episode was inspired by reactions to Mickey Jo's online commentary on five-minute-plus standing ovations at the summer's Evita and Hunchback concerts (02:01).
• Clarification:
  Mickey Jo notes, “I was essentially saying that I don't want us to start experiencing these multi minute frame forced standing ovations… I wasn't actually talking about people standing up in the theater. I was talking about something those two shows did a little bit differently that I didn't like.” (03:15)
• Purpose of the Discussion: To clarify his stance, distinguish between types of applause, and address how applause culture is changing.

[04:00 - 18:30]

The Five Types of Applause in Theatre

1. Final Curtain Applause (Curtain Call & Standing Ovation)

   • Most universal; celebrates the end of the performance and the cast/crew.
   • “That is the most obvious version of applause and the most superlative version of that is the standing ovation.” (05:18)

2. Internal/Spontaneous Applause

   • Occurs after specific songs or significant moments.
   • Musicals often structure songs for “applause buttons,” while shows like Come From Away intentionally disrupt these beats.
   • Also appears in plays, especially after potent or resonant dialogue.

3. Entrance Applause

   • More common on Broadway than West End; depends on culture and show context.
   • Sometimes awkward when shows transfer from Broadway with built-in “applause moments” but local audiences don’t respond.
   • Example: “My friend came to see Jonathan Bailey playing Richard II... and tried to give him entrance applause and got angrily shushed by the... London theatre goers around him, which just feels so on brand for everyone involved in that situation.” (11:00)
   • Mickey Jo takes a pro-applause stance but prefers appropriateness to tone and style.

4. Opening/Anticipatory Applause

   • Applause as the lights go down or for pre-show messages; more post-pandemic.
   • Signifies gratitude for theatre’s return and collective excitement.
   • “I love this type of applause. I think it's meaningful. I think it's a shared excitement and positivity.” (13:30)

5. Sympathetic/Disruptive Applause

   • When something goes wrong: technical holds, corpse-ing, show stops, or unexpected surprises.
   • “All these examples show that the applause is representative of enthusiasm and joy. And I like when it happens organically.” (16:50)

[18:30 - 28:26]

The Real “Problem” with Prolonged Curtain Calls

• Mickey Jo’s Main Critique:
  His concern is not that standing ovations exist, but that recent productions have manipulated the curtain call to force prolonged applause, stripping the audience of agency.

  • “My issue is with prolonged standing ovations where the clapping is sustained for longer than an audience otherwise would. And when the choice to keep clapping is taken away from an audience.” (18:32)

• Evita Example:

  • Extended bows are staged: cast stands, pauses dramatically, waits, bows again, resulting in five-minute ovations.
  • “At a certain point, you know, we do have trains to catch... The only way we as an audience know to... make it end is to keep clapping. Clapping is, in fact, the only thing we can do to move this forward... it’s sort of a hostage situation.” (22:45)

• Contrast with French Theatre:

  • At Paris's Théâtre du Châtelet, audience sets the pace: if they keep clapping as curtain drops, cast returns for another bow—audience-led, not stage-managed.

• Danger of “Competitive Duration”:

  • Rising trend of shows and social media posts touting “record” ovations.
  • Mickey Jo’s concern: “This kind of a statistic, and this idea of competitive duration is not something that we need to see in the world of theatre. It becomes performative and pointless... Is it the Venice Film Festival or Cannes, where things get reported on afterwards and they say this got a 16 minute standing ovation afterwards? ...Ridiculous.” (25:22)

• Accessibility Issue:

  • Extended standing ovations can exclude audience members who can’t comfortably stand, especially wheelchair users.
  • “If you’re a wheelchair user who couldn’t and didn’t... for five minutes it becomes obnoxious.” (27:19)

[28:56 - 38:36]

Are Standing Ovations Meaningless Now?

• Are they obligatory?
  • The “so what if they don’t mean anything?” view—a parallel to concerns about 5-star reviews.
  • It’s special when one person stands genuinely; “Sometimes that can be everyone. Sometimes it’s a small handful of people.” (30:00)
• Peer Pressure & Optics:
  • Waiting for others, not wanting to block someone’s view, standing as a chain reaction.
  • “A sitting ovation starts to feel a little bit cold... sitting and applauding ought not to feel as passive aggressive as it does.” (32:55)
• Musicals vs. Plays:
  • Musicals more likely to get standing ovations—demographics and seating levels play a role.
• Opening Nights and Press Nights:
  • Standing ovations more common due to insider audiences—casts, creatives, and industry guests.

[34:05 - 38:36]

Cultural & Psychological Perspectives

• Ticket Price Justification:

  • “These massive standing ovations ... are a way for an audience to convince themselves that this has been wonderful and that it was worth all of the money that they paid... an act of self-delusion as much as anything else.” (34:25)

• What should we do?

  • Mickey Jo isn’t prescriptive: “I don't want to tell people what to do when they go into a theater. I mostly just go curious to hear what you all may have to say about the way that this differs in other places worldwide.” (35:10)
  • Advocates for creativity in celebration: not just clapping, but perhaps a revival of cheers like “brava/bravo/bravi”, flower-throwing, or new traditions.

• Examples:

  • Heather’s musical and its custom of throwing scrunchies: evidence of unique, fandom-driven curtain call celebrations.

• Key Hope:

  • “Whatever happens though, hopefully the power stays with the people and it is up to audiences to decide how that curtain call is going to go.” (37:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On peer pressure and standing ovations:
  “The one thing that is missing from this entire conversation about standing ovations is the audience members who can’t comfortably stand ... for five minutes it becomes obnoxious.” (27:19)

• On the performative nature of curtain calls:
  “If the bows weren’t structured ... and if the cast didn’t leave the stage and force the audience to sit down, stop clapping and exit the theatre, then they would also last for five minutes every night at Hamilton ... Those shows just grant you the dignity of not having to do that...” (26:50)

• On entrance applause:
  “It’s a lovely way to start work... It’s nice to know that you’re being welcomed by a house full of excited audience members. And I also think it’s weird to criticize applauding anyone.” (11:23)

• On audience enthusiasm:
  “The best kind of audience is one where everyone is so thrilled to be there. And I feel a greater sense of that since theatres reopened...” (13:57)

• On self-delusion via ovation:
  “This sort of spectacle of celebration...is a way for an audience to convince themselves that this has been wonderful and that it was worth all of the money that they paid. And so it’s sort of an act of self delusion as much as anything else.” (34:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Context: 02:01–03:45
• Four/Five Types of Applause: 04:00–17:10
• Prolonged Curtain Call Critique: 18:30–28:26
• Standing O Obligations & Cultural Commentary: 28:56–34:04
• Psychology & Alternative Celebrations: 34:05–38:36
• Closing Thoughts: 37:40–38:36

Tone & Closing

Mickey Jo weaves thoughtfulness and humor throughout, openly welcoming alternative viewpoints and crowd-sourced anecdotes about applause traditions worldwide. The episode balances lighthearted asides (“I think we should be applauding pilots... I think you should be clapping your Starbucks barista if you get a particularly lovely beverage.” — 12:30) with serious critique about how manufactured moments can diminish authenticity and inclusivity in theatre.

Final Note:
Mickey Jo’s message is ultimately about preserving the audience’s right to respond genuinely. He advocates for spontaneity, accessibility, and audience empowerment—“the power stays with the people.”

Have your own thoughts? Join the conversation in the comments or connect with Mickey Jo on YouTube for more ‘stagey’ takes.