← MickeyJoTheatre
MickeyJoTheatre
The witches of flops? | Why Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth can't succeed on Broadway post WICKED
00:35:31
Loading summary
Transcript19 lines
- [00:00]
Xero Advertiser
Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with Xero. That's X E R O.
- [00:09]
With our easy to use accounting software. With automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed US customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Xero with an x or visit xero.comacast to start your 30 day free trial. Conditions apply.
- [00:30]
Progressive Insurance Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states this holiday.
- [00:50]
Mickey Jo
Season Instacart is bringing magic to the people who make it magic for others. Get delivery and deals on everything you need this season. Whether it's a last minute holiday decor, emergency coverage for the holiday party, or just avoiding going out in the cold, Instacart is here. Plus, November 24th to December 23rd is deal month with savings from your favorite retailers and deals on grocery, electronics, beauty, toys and more. Download the Instacart app to get a little magic delivered today.
- [01:22]
When they originated the roles of Elphaba and Glinda in the original Broadway production of wicked back in 2003, Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth went on to become two of the biggest household names associated with musical theatre. They would quickly reach such levels of Broadway stardom and prestige that their respective returns to the Great White Way every few years would be treated as a significant homecoming. And they would have the opportunity to come back to Broadway not just in roles, but in vehicles, shows crafted entirely around their talents, their voice, and, critically, their availability. But even though originating the roles in Wicked was the moment that catapulted them towards this extraordinary fame, and even though they have both achieved success on screen, it would seem as though neither have been able to reach the same dizzying heights of that gravity defying production. Back in 2003 with several subsequent Broadway musicals that have flopped. And in fact, this very year, in the months after they both made a cameo appearance together in the first part of the film adaptation of Wicked, each of the two stars returned to Broadway in separate musicals in distinct seasons, both of which seem to have failed to live up to expectations. And even though the timing of that and all of the noise around Wicked right now makes it a very topical time for this discussion, this is actually something that I'VE been deeply fascinated by for a little while. Was it in spite of the Wicked effect that they haven't been able to find stage success in the years since, or in some way because of it? In short, what I'm wondering is this. Have there been other stars in the history of Broadway musical theatre who have been so consistently failed by multiple star vehicles? Today, we are going to find out. Oh my God. Hey, welcome back to my theatre themed YouTube channel. Or hello to those of you listening to this discussion on podcast platforms. My name is Mickey Jo and I'm obsessed with all things theatre. I'm a theatre critic and content creator here on social media and I do call this a discussion rather than just a video essay because as always, I am very intrigued about your opinions and I may say some things as I express thoughts on a whole handful of different musicals going back over the last 30 years that you disagree with. And in each instance, if you had the chance to see the show or if you just have a perspective on it, I would love to know what you think in the comments section down below, as well as your thoughts on the overall question at hand. Why have the Wickedly talented Broadway leading ladies Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth struggled to find another hit since Wicked? If you enjoy the conversation, make sure to subscribe here on YouTube or follow me on podcast platforms. But we are going to jump right in.
- [03:56]
So here's how we're going to do this. We're going to talk about Adina's career trajectory and Kristin's separately. And then we're going to consider what we have learned through those separate examinations. And quite specifically, what we're looking at here is Wicked as the moment of catalyst, which I think for Adina was even more significant than it was for Kristen. Not only is Wicked inherently sort of just slightly more Elphaba centric, but also she remained attached to the brand of the whole thing for a little longer. She she originated the role both on Broadway and then in London as well. A few years later, she stayed in the show a little longer than Kristen initially did. And you know, she is the green girl. Worth pointing out that Kristen Chenoweth had been involved in workshops for the show longer than Idina had initially with Stephanie J. Block before Adina was cast to play the role on Broadway. But also, we do need to clarify that we're looking at Wicked as the turning point in Adina's career here, because she's had several she has had three major cultural impact moments, which is three more than a lot of actors get in their entire lifetime. But you know, a lot of people would be very lucky and very grateful to have had even one of these because she was an original cast member of the era defining Broadway musical Rent, which we'll talk about in just a moment. But of course, separate to the world of musical theater, just about she was also or is also the voice of Elsa in Disney's Frozen and continues be and at the time of filming has just negotiated a pretty hefty salary for the forthcoming films. Meaning in spite of everything that I might have to say about her stage success thus far, Idina Menzel is doing incredibly well for herself. Not just because she's making a butt ton of money for voicing an animated ice queen, but also because her name no longer gets mispronounced at awards ceremonies and she never has to queue at Disneyland, which I consider to be the ultimate life win. Actually, screw Tony Awards. I want to walk onto Big Thunder Mountain from a separate entrance. Anyway, the point is Adina has been part of multip massive cultural moments. The one we're focusing on is Wicked. So not unlike with Christ, we're going to define the eras of her musical theatre stage career as BW&AW before and after Wicked. And in each instance, we are going to define her success in these roles in these shows by three things. We are going to consider whether the show itself was successful from a financial standpoint. Did it recoup? Could it have been considered a success separately to that, for whatever reason, category number two, we are going to sort of anecdotally consider whether her performance in that show had meaningful, lasting cultural significance and impact. Is it well remembered? Do people still talk about it now? Did she originate a song that continues to be sung? That kind of thing. And category number three, was it awards worthy? Was she nominated for or the recipient of a Tony Award or another prestigious honour? Now, for my thesis to be true, the stage performances that she gave before Wicked need to have been more successful than those she gave afterwards. And her journey on stage, of course originated with Rent, which was a huge financial and critical success. The entire show and her performance in it had massive cultural significance. That is inarguable. And though she did not win the Tony Award, another member of her company did and she was still Tony Award nominated. She also reprised the role on screen, which not all musical theater actors have the opportunity to do, and defined the character in one of the most beloved musicals of all time in a way that I feel still has yet to be eclipsed. I don't know if there is another individual beyond everyone's personal preferences and tastes, that would be more broadly associated with Maureen. And you know, films have a habit of shifting that because I think the best remembered Rent original Broadway cast members are the ones who had the opportunity to apprise their performances. And like for a lot of people now, when you ask who you think of as Elphaba, a lot of people are going to say Cynthia Erivo. So Rent in every category across the board was a huge success for Idina Menzel. However, what's fascinating is, even though that would seem like a really massive deal, she has expressed since that in the years that would follow, it felt like her career sort of stalled to some extent and she slipped back into anonymity. She was in a show called summer of 42, which didn't represent much of a success, certainly not in terms of awards or cultural significance. She actually replaced Chera Renee Scott in Aida. And not that replacing on Broadway is inherently less prestigious, but we can see from the shows that she has been attached to in the years since, it's not something that she is necessarily inclined to do. She is much more involved usually with originating and developing new roles. And interestingly, Sherri Renee Scott was actually a replacement Maureen. She may even have been her first replacement in the Broadway production. So that does suggest a little bit of a flipped power dynamic to some extent, if you want to really read into it now, because Adina was a replacement in Aida, whether or not it recouped is moot for her part in the show. The role of Amneris I think had significant cultural impact, but only in the hands and mouth of Sherri Renee Scott. It's not necessarily even very talked about that Idina did it at one point. Beyond one bootleg that happens to exist. And being a replacement, she wasn't really eligible for the usual slate of awards. However, don't cry for her Margintina, because not only is the original Broadway production of Wicked and that casting call on the horizon, but before then she would be attached to an Off Broadway show that is well remembered. This is the Wild Party. And I need to clarify it this time because there were two of them simultaneously. As you may know. This is the Andrew Lipper scored of Broadway production of the Wild Party. Julia Murney starred. She would also be up for the role of Elphaba alongside Idina and would go on to play it a little later in the Broadway run. But back then she was leading as Queenie and Adina was playing a supporting role, one for which she would be Nominated for an award, I think it was a Drama Desk award that she was nominated for for the Wild Party. The show was successful and I'm willing to say that her performance in it, and certainly her performance of the song the Life of the Party has had lasting cultural impact. People sing that song and it's the Adina version that they're listening to to learn it. Which concludes the chapter before Wicked, which I think is emblematic of this exciting new, fresh, edgy musical theatre talent who was really capable of delivering the goods in the right roles. Roles that she was desperately trying to find in a theater industry that hadn't yet really adapted to her or performers like her. But don't worry, all of that was to come and this is the moment that Wicked happens. And by our three criteria, Adina had the most fulfillment out of experience. Not only was the show a huge success, continues to be a huge global phenomenon of a success, one of the most successful musicals of all time, one of the highest earning properties of all time. So long story short, yes, it has recouped, but the cultural significance is also massive. Specifically the cultural significance of Adina's performance and her renditions of the wizard and Eye and Defying Gravity, some of the most listened to musical theater songs that original Broadway cast recording perhaps of all time. Few other performers can aspire to anything even approaching this level of cultural impact and recognition. And not only was she nominated for the Tony, but she went on to win the Tony for playing Elphaba. Which is even more impressive when you consider how much harder it is to win a leading Tony Award when you are nominated alongside somebody else from the show that you are also in, who has almost as much dramatic thrust and material who is already Tony Award winner themselves. Like every time this happens nowadays we say, well, they're gonna split the votes and somebody else is gonna take it. But that didn't happen back then. Adina won and props to her. And like I said, she would stay in Wicked for a little while through the first Glinda cars change. She would also go with the show to London to originate the West End production where I saw her play the role as an excited little 11 year old. And I think just before she did that, she managed to play a role at the Public Theater in the musical See what I Wanna See this Time for the other Wild Party, Michael John lachiusa. And while I wouldn't suggest that her performance in that necessarily achieved mass ongoing cultural significance, I do believe she was nominated for a Drama League award for her performance. It was Also the kind of work, the kind of new writing she was becoming associated with. And because Wicked couldn't really have been called a cultural phenomenon the day that it opened on Broadway. I think we have to really define the after Wicked era as commencing a few years later. And certainly after her final performance in the London Run Run, at which point Adina largely focused on other projects. She focused on music she made on screen appearances. She was in Enchanted, controversially, not singing in that first film, something they would rectify in the sequel with one of the poorer lyrics ever written for a song, Love Power. And it was a conspicuous number of years, the better part of a decade, before Idina Menzel would make her triumphant return to Broadway in a show built around her, her first real star vehicle. This does if then written by next to normal writers Tom Kitt and Brian Yorkey. This was exactly the kind of musical theatre that Adina seemed to want to do and has been doing since. A contemporary, truly original piece that feels very at home in her voice. One with a meaningful story of womanhood at its center. In fact, two meaningful stories of womanhood at its center because it had this Gwyneth Paltrow sliding doors kind of a plot where early on in the narrative she is asked to make a simple choice. And we follow the two different results of what her life could subsequently be, whether she chooses to be Liz or Beth and, you know, the two different strands of possibility. And how's this for on brand? Among the fantastic supporting cast was her original Rent co star, Anthony Rapp. So this was a very big deal marketed around Idina Menzel back on Broadway as the star that she had come to be by this point. So with Idina back on Broadway for the first time since she donned the red tracksuit at her final performance of Wicked, how did this measure up against our three criteria for success? Well, the show itself was not a significant critical success and it did not fully recoup its investment, though it is said to have recouped a portion of it. For her part, Dina Menzel was nominated for a Tony Award for her performance, which she did not go on to win. And in terms of lasting cultural significance, there are songs from that score which have definitely emerged and been remembered. But generally speaking, I do think that it is still thought of as that Idina Menzel musical. It's never really been able to separate from her as a performer. Now, in 2018, Adina would perform in a Joshua Harmon play called Skin Tight. This would be her first non musical theater dramatic role in New York and this was a roundabout production at a non profit theater, so recouping is off the table. She wasn't nominated for anything for it, but I do think that this was a really interesting moment from her and I really would have liked to have seen her performance in this play. I didn't actually realize that this had ever happened until fairly recently when I think I was reading something that Eli Gelb said about it because it was a stepping stone playing her son, and that was a stepping stone on his pathway towards being in the original company of Stereophonic. But since it took me so long to find out it had even happened, I guess not a lot of cultural impact and we're predominantly talking about musical theatre Anyhow, which brings us to last Broadway season and Idina Menzel's 2025 New York musical theatre return in Redwood. And once again, the marketing is leaning into Idina Menzel back on stage. And once again there's yet another Rent connection. Because even though she isn't sharing the stage with another original Broadway cast alumnus, the stage that she is going to be on is the Nederlander Theatre, Rent's original Broadway home. And while they do absolutely everything that they can to push that in the marketing, at the end of the day what's on that stage, as in the show itself, is still important. And it wasn't selling particularly badly. Audiences were responding to the fact that Idina Menzel, now not only the star of Wicked, but by this point also the voice of Elsa in Disney's Frozen, was on stage in a Broadway musical and you could hear her sing live in person. Not only that, she was also going to be flying. It's like it's 2003 again. We all feel much younger. Nobody has any lower back pain. The politics is better, but only very slightly. Unfortunately, beyond Idina Menzel belting while flying around the stage, there is just so much that Wicked and Redwood, and indeed Rent and Redwood, did not have in common, namely a compelling narrative. And you can find reward for sure in the plot of Redwood, but the reality is that it wasn't telling an extraordinarily satisfying story to its audiences. That was reflected when the show did not earn any Tony Award nominations, including for its leading ladies. So she got no Tony Award nom for Redwood. It's possible she was nominated for awards elsewhere, but at this point in her career it kind of had to be the Tony or nothing. The show did not recoup with budgets having skyrocketed since she was last on Broadway in if Then. And the stakes having become so much higher. And while this may be remembered as the Idina Menzel tree musical, I don't know that much of the show's score or any facet of her performance is necessarily going to outlive the memory of its Broadway disappointment. Now, before we reflect on all of that, let's talk about her bubbly Wicked co star Kristen.
- [17:32]
Xero Advertiser
Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with zero that's X E R O.
- [17:41]
With our easy to use accounting software with automation and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed US customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Xero with an x or visit xero.comacast to start your 30 day free trial. Conditions apply.
- [18:02]
Progressive Insurance Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [18:24]
Mickey Jo
Chenoweth.
- [18:29]
Now Kristen is currently the subject of considerable social media conversation. This is a conversation I have already traversed. If you want to know what I thought of that, you can go and find my feelings about it elsewhere. We aren't going to acknowledge it here today. I'm also not going to say that much more about the Broadway musical. She can currently be seen in the Queen of Versailles, but if you want to go and listen to my review, it's a doozy. So before Wicked, Kristen made her Broadway debut in the musical Steel Pier, at which point she was a standout, characterful actress who was also known not only as a singer but also as a dancer, which is a skill set that she has utilized on Broadway, but never to the extent of like a Sutton Foster, someone truly associated with being that kind of a triple threat. For Kristen, it's always been pretty much about her comedy chops, her personality and her voice, her impressively high vocal range, her classical training. Now, Steel Peer wasn't particularly a success, but her role in it was small, so that wasn't really connected to her. It's definitely not talked about as one of the early shows in her career that's going to be the one that's coming up next, but she did have a smidgen of awards attention for it. I think she won, was it a Theatre World award for sort of newcomer debut performance in recognition of even then her evident talent, which would certainly be recognized in her next show, the Broadway musical you're a Good Man, Charlie Brown. This was financially successful and for a lot of musical theatre fans, I think may even be synonymous with Kristin Chenoweth's performance in it and her performance of My New Philosophy at the Tony Awards. She would win the Tony Award that year as well as every other award that she was nominated for for playing Sally Brown. And her performance of that song has entered into the theatre history books. Not only would the song be performed by so many aspiring musical theatre actresses, but her performance in it would be emulated by them as well. Now, Kristen also appeared on Broadway in a play called Epic Proportions, which I couldn't discover a great deal about. It was not particularly successful, but it also doesn't really speak to the trajectory of her musical theater career. I do want to have a conversation about the roles each of them played on screen, but what's interesting to note at this point point is Kristen was workshopping and developing the leading role in the musical Thoroughly Modern Millie, but had to depart that for a TV appearance, which I believe based on timing, must have been her own sitcom Kristen. And back in those days, in the late 90s, early 2000s, if you had a sitcom where you played a character with the same first name as yours and a different surname who very much mirrored who you were, I'm looking at you, Joan Cusack. I'm looking at you. Oh, who was the other one? I really loved it. Christine Baranski was her best friend. Sybil Cybill shepherd, but not Sybil Cybill something else in the TV show Sybil. But Kristen had one of those. I believe it was fairly short lived, but it also evidenced a certain amount of belief in the star that she was becoming. In any case, a few years later she would be back on Broadway in a little green show called Wicked. And while she didn't win the Tony because they could only give out one to her co star Idina Menzel, she was nominated for originating the role of Glinda in Like I said Said, one of the most culturally impactful musicals of all time. And you can bet when they weren't listening to Defying Gravity, they were listening to Popular once more, shaping an entire generation of drama school auditionees cabaret performances. If you've ever listened to more than one girl sing this song within the same hour of performance, then you will know that Kristin Chenoweth has so much to answer for. Which concludes the Before Wicked era, at which point she, like Adina, has been having some success. Her star has been on the rise. She has even begun to appear on screen in a leading role. And while Adina's talent could have been described as edgy and contemporary and bold and powerful, Kristen already at this point in her career, even in Wicked, had really showcased versatility and range and a very sort of contemporary comic style mixed with this very classical, traditional vocal, opening her up to the opportunity to play a lot of different roles on stage. And the next time she would appear on a Broadway stage, that's exactly what she would play many different roles in a musical called the Apple Tree, a revival of the show that originally won its leading lady, Barbara Harris a Tony Award. It was a controversial surprise then when Kristin Chenoweth, who recreated that performance in the mid-2000s, was not even nominated for one. The show itself was a short lived financial flop. And again, if you were to ask musical theatre fans about the various roles that Kristen Chambers Tenoworth had played, I don't know that the Apple Tree will necessarily come up a lot in conversation. So something of a failure on all three fronts. A good few years later, after more work on screen, Kristen would be back on Broadway in another revival. Not quite a glittering golden age classic, but the Burt Bacharach scored musical Promises, Promises opposite Another star, TV's Sean Hayes of Will and Grace fame. Now this one is interesting because the joint star power of the two of them them was creating an awful lot of buzz at the box office. But for uncertain reasons the show still closed early, at which point in their closing press release it was said by producers that it was expected to recoup, which maybe counts, although I don't necessarily know if that means you could label the show overall as a success. And controversially, once more, Kristin Chenoweth is not nominated for a Tony Award when it comes to cultural impact. With Promises Promises, I will grant it the smidgen of relevance. Relevance if only because she got to sing one of the songs that she had sung in that show on Glee. So by this point she and Adina have both perpetrated Broadway comebacks in productions that seem to be very much shaped around them but have not earned them that same satisfying success as their days at the Gershwin Theatre. Which brings us, I think, to the most successful Broadway stage appearance that Kristin Chenoweth has had in the years since Wicked, a Roundabout Theatre Company revival of on the 20th century, which in the times of increasingly expensive Broadway mounting from a non profit producer, I don't believe recouped its investment but was broadly enjoyed. She may not have won the Tony Award, but she was nominated for it and she did win the Drama Desk Award and I think the Outer Critics Circle Award for her leading performance in the show. This very much being a star vehicle for her at this point, but in which again, she was not the only star name appearing alongside Peter Gallagher. And yet and those who saw it can absolutely weigh in in the comments section down below below, would you say that Kristin Chenoweth's performance in on the 20th Century managed to affect any kind of lasting memorable cultural impact? There was a Tony Awards performance and when I'm watching musical theatre videos on YouTube with friends at 2 o' clock in the morning, I will show them the clip of her performing Veronique, if only for the costume change. Go watch it right after you're done with this. It's remarkable, but still probably only a role that people could tell you Kristin Chenoweth played because it happened relatively recently afterwards, which years go by. Concerts, roles in films, and after about a decade, another appearance in a Broadway musical, this one entirely and unquestionably a vehicle crafted around her and once again alongside another famous name as her leading man. F. Murray Abraham stars as her husband in the Queen of Versailles. And if you've been paying attention to recent Broadway developments, I probably need not spell this one out for you. But not only has the show been something of a critical disappointment in spite of a slightly baffling critics pick from the New York Times, who thankfully have finally appointed who I think is a very promising new chief theatre critic and not a moment too soon, but also generally poor word of mouth from audiences, a lengthy two star review from your very own Mickey Jo Theatre, and an early closing date of January 4th. And if that weren't enough, there is also something of a scandal surrounding social media growth, comments that Kristin Chenoweth made in the run up to the show's first performance in response to the death of right wing agitator Charlie Kirk. So both in terms of career and brand image, it has not been a particularly satisfying or successful few months. And once more, even though opportunities have been in abundance every few years, Kristen has the chance to come back to Broadway in a show built around her celebrating her Broadway return. Just like with Adina's, that same level of success that she was finding in the earlier years of her career has seemingly been tricky to replicate. So why might this be? And what is the.
- [26:54]
Ulta Beauty Advertiser
Hear that it's holiday cheer arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from ysl, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera. And you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty Gift Card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty Gifting happens here.
- [27:24]
Progressive Insurance Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [27:45]
Mickey Jo
Solution.
- [27:51]
So to consider what it is that might be going wrong with some of these projects, and to consider also how they might still both find Broadway success, I would like to take a look at some of the shows that they have workshopped, the roles that they helped to develop but didn't go on to subsequently play on stage. And like I mentioned, Kristen workshopped Thoroughly Modern Millie earlier in her career, which became this huge Star Is Born moment for Sutton Foster, in large part due to the fact that she was the understudy to Erin Dilly, who had to take on the role suddenly and emerged from the ensemble to perform all of this very demanding material with evidently abundant talents. Had Kristen Chenoweth gone on to play Millie Dillmount in Thoroughly Modern Millie, Sutton Foster's talents you would hope would have been discovered at some other time. But also, I'm not sure the Millie's story would necessarily have been the same for Kristen C.H. chenoweth. However, might she have won the Best Leading Actress in a Musical Tony Award in 2001? 2002? Whatever it was regardless an award which she has subsequently been nominated for but has not won. When she won for Charlie Brown, it was in the featured category, which I don't want to position as less than, but you have to wonder whether that's something that she wants. Now. Kristen did cause a little bit of a stir recently, not that one different time, when she revealed that she had been attached to the developing Broadway musical Death Becomes her, which ended up starring Megan Hilty and Jennifer Simard as feuding frenemies Madeline Ashton and Helen Sharp. But that isn't quite the whole story. And if you haven't heard this rumor before, which I have had substantiated by more than one person working on Broadway, then your minds may be about to be blown. Because it isn't just that Kristen was working on Death Becomes her and chose to do the Queen of Versailles instead. As the story goes, the two leading roles roles in Death Becomes her Because it never would have been Kristin Chenoweth and Jennifer Simard. That just simply wouldn't work. Allegedly, in the workshop, it was Kristin Chenoweth and Idina Menzel reunited once more on stage 20 years after they first starred together in Wicked. That would have been an extraordinary moment, a story so big it might even have eclipsed the show itself. And this is something that we need to consider. Has it been too hard to market a show like if Then Redwood, the Queen of versailles on the 20th century? Because their biggest pulls in terms of marketing the Broadway returns of Kristin Chenoweth and Idina Menzel, which they know are going to sell a certain amount of tickets regardless of the story, does that actually, after that point, get in the way of communicating that story to audiences? And more to the point, does it get increasingly difficult for audiences to see anybody other than Idina or Kristen on stage? And for her part, Kristin Chenoweth sort of disappears more into the characters that she plays, often in a literal sense. She tends to wear more wigs, more flamboyant costuming. Adina, as time passes in the musicals that she appears in, at least portrays characters who are closer and closer to herself. And often, you know, it's her own hair, it's comfortable shoes. She's playing a Jewish woman from Long island, often portraying themes of motherhood or divorce. And though it would have been such a moment for the two of them to be doing, death becomes her again. I think it probably would have been a slightly better fit for Kristen as Matt Madeline than Adina as Helen. And I respect what might have been the inclination not to go through another Broadway season and awards cycle once again being up against each other just like they were in Wicked. It might have been moot anyway because that turned out to be one of the most competitive seasons for actresses at the Tonys in recent memory, that being the season in which Idina didn't get a nomination for Redwood, and I neglected to say say that Kristen for the Queen of Versailles, which is absolutely not going to recoup and which I dare say won't have much significant cultural impact beyond the memory of it being something of a disaster, could still earn Kristin Chenoweth a Tony Award nomination, if only because this currently is set to be a very quiet season. And if it does, and if she gets a Tony Award nomination where Adina didn't, it isn't because her performance is that much stronger or that the show is that much better. It's just the sheer difference in the number of shows and performances. Now there's another interesting distinction in the shows that they have each decided to do in the year since Wicked. And I say decided because when you're an early career Broadway performer, you are auditioning for the roles that are available and you are maybe working with composers or creatives and you are helping to develop material, but you don't have the star power, the celebrity, the status to be able to necessarily curate the projects that you are attached to in the same way way that two stars of this caliber would. In other words, when you see Kristen doing the Queen of Versailles, it is because she chose that project for herself. It's because that is the thing that she wanted to commit to. When you see Idina doing Redwood, I believe she actually helped to creatively develop that one as well as a collaborator. And the distinction that I'm referring to between their projects is that Adina has by and large worked in the realm of new musicals. She has not been replacing on broadcast Broadway. Kristen has been, prior to the Queen of Versailles, largely attached to revivals. What's interesting is I think we also have to look at the other actresses working alongside them on Broadway, because with Kristen's voice, you might have assumed that she would be able to play a lot of classic golden age musical theater roles. Mrs. Anna in the King and I, perhaps, or, you know, other Rogers and Hammersteins or the Music Man. And she did play Marian the Librarian in a filmed version of the Music Man. But in the years that she would have been best able to do shows like the King and I, another musical theater star who had been taught to sing by the same teacher was playing those roles instead. I am talking about Kelly o'. Hara. Meanwhile, if roles didn't exist for Adina back at the beginning of her career, they certainly do now. Because this season, especially if you look at so many of the new roles that are being released written, they are being played by former Elphabas. Casey Levy was almost set to be in two different Broadway shows in one season with Ragtime and the Lost Boy. Stephanie J. Block is working on either side of the Atlantic playing all of these different roles. So many of the other Norma Desmonds who were playing the role alongside and on Standby four, Nicole Scherzinger were former Elphabas. Shoshana Bean in Hell's Kitchen replaced by Jessica Vosk in Hell's Kitchen. Now is really the time. You know, it took a few years for the composers to be impacted by the score of Wicked, for Adina's voice personally to change the way that musical theatre composers were writing for that sound to really take hold on Broadway, for the roles to begin to exist for those actresses, it's a shame. Then perhaps if she does in some ways kind of relegate herself to the world of entirely new projects that she has personally developed. What's even more curious, I think, is that one of those projects that she develop, developed, went on to become the musical Next to Normal. She was attached to an early version of it when it was called Feeling Electric. And you'll remember she went on to work with those composers on the show. If then years later, and when Next to Normal was coming to Broadway, Adina probably wasn't old enough to do it. But I dare say within the last few years, much as I wanted the Casey Levy led revival to make its way to Broadway from London, which was astonishingly good, can you imagine how critically and financially successful it could have been been if that production went to Broadway and Idina Menzel starred as Diana? She would be recreating a role in a revival. Not something that she's really done much of, but you got to assume that it would have been a bigger deal than Redwood at least. Kristen, meanwhile, has spoken for years about being attached to bio musicals of icons like Dolly Parton and Tammy Faye, both of whom have now been musicalized with the roles being played by other actresses, while she opted to do the Queen of Versailles, both as an actor and as a producer, which at time will ultimately prove to have been something of a choice. But in spite of the current headlines being made by that show, there is also ultimately no taking away from her achievements and her extraordinary talent for both of them. And a big conspicuous missing part of this conversation is the work that they have done on screen. Kristin Chenoweth is an Emmy Award winner. They both had successful guest appearances on Glee. Some of their strong, longest screen appearances, their most celebrated have been still inherently linked to the world of musical theater. Often they are singing in these on screen performances. Edina, of course, is forever going to be linked to the Frozen franchise, one of Disney's biggest post millennium successes. And they each have found a thing which for musical theater actors is so, so hard to find, which is true name recognition. Interestingly, there is one role that Adina played in something of a revival when she was Florence Vassi in a concert production of Chess, which I actually think has more ongoing cultural significance and familiarity with musical theater fans than a lot of the other roles she's played. Same, interestingly enough, with Kristin Chenoweth. You may not remember the role she played in the Apple Tree or on the 20th century. But her performance as Cunegonda in a concert version of Candide's singing Glitter and Be Gay is absolutely etched into musical theatre method memory. So to consider our initial question, whether this was happening because of or in spite of Wicked, I think some element of both can be true because I think to some extent timing and misfortune has affected many of the projects that they have been involved with in the years since Wicked. It's also called Lightning in a Bottle for a reason. You know it's hard when that is your benchmark and your expectation to replicate that kind of success. At the same time, I do think something can be seen said for becoming so significant as a star and a performer that someone could maybe become almost too particular, almost too specific about the vehicles which are designed for them and the roles that they will play on stage. A part of me would really love to see Idina Menzel do more revivals. A part of me is wondering whether Kristin Chenoweth's best work is always going to be as a standout, brilliant supporting performer performer rather than a leading lady of a troubled show. Plenty to consider and plenty more to debate and discuss in the comments section down below. I welcome all of your thoughts, especially those of you who saw any of the performances that I have just mentioned. Please share all of your thoughts with me. In the meantime, thank you so much for listening to this. I hope you enjoyed and if you did, make sure to subscribe here on YouTube for more musical theatre commentary, reviews and of course, theatre news. As always, I hope that everyone is staying safe and that you have a stadium day for 10 more seconds. I'm Mickey Joe Theater. Oh my God. Hey, thanks for watching. Have a stagey day. Subscribe.
- [38:44]
Xero Advertiser
Take control of the numbers and supercharge your small business with Xero. That's X E R O.
- [38:53]
With our easy to use accounting software with automation and and reporting features, you'll spend less time on manual tasks and more time understanding how your business is doing. 87% of surveyed US customers agree Xero helps improve financial visibility. Search Xero with an x or visit xero.comacast to start your 30 day free trial. Conditions apply.
- [39:14]
Progressive Insurance Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [39:35]
Ulta Beauty Advertiser
Hear that? It's holiday cheer arriving at Ulta Beauty with gifts for everyone on your list. Treat them to fan favorite gift sets from Charlotte Tilbury and Peach and Lily. Go all out with timeless fragrances from Y Maisel, Ariana Grande and Carolina Herrera, and you can never go wrong with an Ulta Beauty gift card. Head to Ulta Beauty for gifts that make the holidays brighter and even more beautiful. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here.