Micky Jo (0:00)

So I decided in response to some of Patti LuPone's comments in the New Yorker piece, that objectively, the funniest thing that I could do is film the follow up video sat on a bench in Central park. Lonely as hell. Oh, my God. Hey, welcome back to my theatre themed YouTube channel. Hello to you if you are listening on podcast platforms. My name is Micky Jo and I am obsessed with all things theatre. And today we're going to be talking about a little bit of an update to to the ongoing drama and media storm surrounding Patti LuPone, Audra McDonald and Keisha Lewis, all of them veteran Broadway performers currently embroiled in a big conversation stemming from comments that Patti LuPone made in a recent New Yorker profile piece. This happened last week. I made a video about this at the time. If you want the most full and nuanced thorough explanation of everything that you know, the immediate fallout of that and how I felt about it, I suggest you go and watch that video before this one, if you haven't already. But I will recap a little bit how we got here in the days since Audra has responded to this. If Keisha has, I haven't seen it, but various other things have happened. The impact of this has been felt through the community. I am currently in New York, as you can tell. Apologies if you hear the distracting sounds of Central park in this video. Hopefully, if anything, they may encourage all of us, and me included, to, you know, just ground ourselves a little bit more in peace and humanity amidst all of this drama. But what I was going to say is that conversation around the New Yorker piece and everything that's happened afterwards, and you know, this surprising unearthed beef, I guess, between Patty and Audra, one sided as it may be, has been the talk of midtown Manhattan. And before we really get into it, there were a couple of comments on the last video about whether or not this was even worth talking about and saying, who cares? And I think because it speaks to, you know, behaviors and the way that we should treat each other, it is a conversation worth having. And I think it brings up realities about, you know, differing levels of privilege within the theatre community. And that's something that we should talk about as well. And that's definitely a topic that you're going to hear me talking about a lot. We're going to be talking a lot about privilege because I think that's really what's at the heart of this. Anyway, let's talk about how we got here and everything that's happened afterwards. So in terms of what this is all about. This goes back to the end of 2024 when Patti LuPone alongside Mia Farrow was appearing in a play called the Roommate at the Booth Theatre on Broadway. The Booth Theatre shares a wall with the Schubert Theatre where the Tony Award winning musical Hell's Kitchen had already been playing. They were already open and running prior to the Roommate starting its run in that theatre. The Roommate was a limited run that has since closed. And now the new play, John Proctor as the villain, which is terrific by the way, has opened and is currently playing at the booth. And the issue that became apparent here was while Patti and Mia were on stage in the Roommate was that because they were sharing a wall with a musical and they were a play, the bass of the music was coming through the back wall was coming, as Patti described in a more recent interview, alongside George Clooney in a little actors on actors thing that they did. She said the bass of the music and the instruments was coming through the wall onto their stage and out into the auditorium and into the audience. In any case, it seems as though it was Patti herself who took the the issue with this more so than audience members. We don't know necessarily whether this was a problem that was raised, whether multiple audience members complained. What we do know is that Patti herself had a problem with what she interpreted as a disruptive amount of noise, raised this to a stage manager and was advised to contact the head of the Schubert organization. And she did. And the sound team at Hell's Kitchen subsequently adjusted the sound and she sent four flowers. And then, you know, some other things happened alongside this because there were also videos on social media of her signing playbills at the stage door and refusing to sign a Hell's Kitchen playbill. I guess this is someone who had seen Hell's Kitchen but hadn't seen the Roommate yet, but was excited to meet Patti LuPone. You know, you see Patti LuPone out on the street and she is a very well known Tony Award winning actress whose popularity has been boosted by the likes of her recent appearance on Agatha, all along other TV and film stuff. But she refused to sign a Hell's Kitchen playbill, which is entirely fair enough. The reason that she gave is because she characterized the show as being too loud. And this alongside her, you know, going above their heads and calling the head the Shubert organization and having them affect the sound levels and make changes to the show. This combination of behaviors upset Tony Award winning Hell's Kitchen cast member Keisha Lewis, who took to social media with an extended video talking about how she was interpreting this as a racial microaggression. And I talked about this in my last video, and I sort of clumsily mischaracterized this somewhat because I said it seemed as though Patti, who has been a strong personality throughout her career and has had many well documented altercations with various composers and fellow actresses and at times the industry and the world at large, which are also talked about in that New Yorker piece. And I said, as though it didn't seem overtly and intentionally like a racist microaggression. And while I maintain, to the best of my ability to do so, not being Patti LuPone herself, that I don't interpret this as being willfully racist, for me to suggest that this wasn't a willful microaggression is a reductive, erroneous statement, because that's not what a microaggression is. Because the whole point of a microaggression is that it comes out of this ignorance of privilege. And it's about the way that it's received, not the way that it's intended. And it's the nature of those kind of like, dog whistle statements inherently that not everyone is able to hear them. But what Keisha was talking about was how a white actress with extraordinary privilege in the industry having the sound design of another show changed and then sending flowers and making those comments. The stage door felt like a microaggression to the predominantly black musical next door. And we can have a conversation about whether Patti would have behaved exactly the same way with a majority white cast musical, but it doesn't make any difference to the way that it was received and to the validity of those feelings. Now, Patti LuPone in the new Yorker piece described being shocked by this and took further issue with a statement of solidarity from Audra McDonald, who I guess had commented on Beneath the video with emojis, which is like an expression of solidarity and understanding, because Audra, presumably, as another black actress within the industry, understood where Keisha Lewis was coming from, understood where those feelings were happening, and understood that, you know, they occupied a very different place within the industry and weren't afforded the same kind of privilege. But it was in this New Yorker piece, many months later, when Patty spoke very openly about both of these actresses, said that Keisha wasn't a veteran because she hadn't done as many Broadway shows as Patti had, sort of ignorant of the fact that Patti had had, you know, the opportunity to do more shows. This is the same Patti LuPone who said that she was giving up Broadway, giving up her Equity card a few months ago and then subsequently still did a Broadway play. Again, indicative of extraordinary sort of unique privilege. She also called Quiche a name. She said that Audra wasn't a friend and that she ought to know better. And then what followed was, was this huge backlash to those comments in the New Yorker. People were shocked by this. And it's not that that kind of candor isn't expected from Patti LuPone, but many people felt as though she had crossed a line. And I think amidst many very well written and very eloquent social media responses, the one that really resonated with me the most was someone had said privilege is the ability to, you know, like, shame the industry. Give up your Equity card and still do a play on Broadway and, you know, like, be able to call the head of the Schubert organization and have this conversation. These are not options that are available to most performers. And the reality is that if, you know, earlier career performers had behaved in this way, or if, you know, non white performers, if, like black women had behaved in this way, the outcome likely would not have been the same. They don't have the same opportunity to make these kind of statements, to make these kind of moves within the industry and still have a lot of people's respect. So this brings us to the aftermath of all of this, the social media impact and amidst, like I said, many different responses, many people sharing their feelings about this, a huge amount of solidarity with Keisha and with all Audre. One of the biggest things to come out of this was an open letter co signed by hundreds of different Broadway creatives and performers, people from throughout the industry, including some auspicious names like Wendell Pierce, James Monroe, Iglehart, essentially calling for accountability, asking for better from the Broadway community and a more robust conversation around change. And that Patti LuPone not be invited to attend the Tony Awards. It is a very long open letter that was published on May 30 addressed to to the American Theatre wing of the Tony Awards, the Broadway League and the greater theatre community. I won't read the entire thing, but you can find it online. Like I said, it's a very long letter. It says, to begin with, this is not a petition. It is an open letter, a collective call in to our community. We write not to shame or to isolate, but to speak with honesty, clarity and care. This is a call for accountability, justice and respect rooted in love for the art form and for the people who make it possible. All of which I think we can agree is an incredibly important basis. We believe our community can do better, we believe it must do better, especially when harm is done to those who have given so much to the industry. It then recaps everything that was said in the New Yorker article and shares. To publicly attack a woman who has contributed to this art form with such excellence, leadership and grace and discredit the legacy of Audrey MacDonald, the most nominated and awarded performer in Tony Award history, is not simply a personal offence. It is a public affront to the values of collaboration, equity and mutual respect that our theatre community claims to uphold. Let us be clear and I think this is important. This is about more than one person. It is about a culture, a pattern, a persistent failure to hold people accountable for violent, disrespectful or harmful behaviour, especially when they are powerful or well known. I mean this at the time and these are very different situations. But when Scott Rudin is beginning to perpetrate a return to Broadway as a producer in spite of the allegations and the stories that emerged about his behavior, one of many, sort of like open secrets in the Broadway theatre community. One of these realities that everybody knew about but tolerated. Like I said, very different situations that I am not equating here. But there is undeniably a culture of acknowledging harmful behaviour on Broadway and allowing it to continue nonetheless, just to maintain a status quo in the name of like the show must go on and existing hierarchical power structures. And in fact I hadn't read this far ahead yet, but Scott Rudin is personally invoked in the next paragraph and they share. We cannot continue to welcome back those who harm others simply because of their fame or perceived value. This must stop. We will no longer tolerate violence, verbal, emotional or physical against artists within our own community. No more free passes. With a call then for the American Theatre wing to validate diversity, champion creative expression, support growth and create connections, make excellence known and inspire artistic greatness as well as to in response to Patti LuPone's comments and in the name of establishing a broader standard of accountability, refuse to henceforth welcome individuals including Patti LuPone, who use their platform to publicly demean, harass or disparage fellow artists, particularly with racial, gendered or otherwise violent language, to industry events, including the Tony Awards, fundraisers and public programs. They suggest that participation, recognition and attendance at high profile events must be contingent on conduct that reflects community values. Which I think again we can agree is important and is a great idea. This includes completion of comprehensive anti bias or restorative justice programs before re entry into public facing spaces. Theatre institutions must adopt and enforce clear, transparent policies for addressing harmful behaviour Regardless of an individual's fame or tenure in the industry, they go on to say, this is not about cancelling anyone or condemning them. It is about care. Care for our artists, our values, and the future of our shared craft. We write because we want this community to thrive not just in box office numbers or critical acclaim, but in integrity, safety and mutual respect. Which, it must be said, is always considered an afterthought. You know, success on Broadway is measured, as they say, by critical acclaim, by great reviews, by New York Times critics picks and Tony Awards and drama desks, or by box office figures, by broken box office records and great weekly grosses. And the personal and emotional success and well being of artists and creatives and creators is often considered an afterthought to that, whether consciously or unconsciously. They finish by saying, to the quiches and audras of our past, present and future, you are the soul of this community. To the leaders of our industry, a belief in justice, equity and inclusion must mean something. Not just in statements, not just in programming, but in how we act when those values are tested. Accountability is not an attack. It is an act of care. And then finally, we are calling for action. Not to punish, but to protect, not to divide, but to strengthen a stronger, healthier, more equitable Broadway is possible. One where all artists are treated with dignity, safety and respect. And as I mentioned before, there are a great many undersigned artists here who are sharing in the belief of that message and everything enclosed within the open letter, which is, you know, very powerfully, very strongly worded, but calling for a great many important things. And I think it is overdue that we do prioritise the values of integrity and community in an industry that talks about community an awful lot, but doesn't always deliver on that on an individual basis. And something else articulated repeatedly within that open letter is that it is not intended as an attack nor solely focused on an individual's actions. And the recent comments made by Patti, but sort of, you know, acknowledging them as indicative of a wider behavior and a wider conversation, which I think is something really important here, both because I think when we personalize these things and we just focus on an individual, we lose sight of the bigger picture and we're not actually having a conversation about the real problems. But also because, you know, we know that these issues and these mindsets go beyond the behavior of one individual, that the real problems in this community and in the global community and in society are systemic and are, you know, maintained by these power structures and by a status quo that sometimes needs to be challenged. Now, that is not the only thing that has happened. In response to the New Yorker piece being published, Audra McDonald was asked about those comments in an interview with Gayle King. This timing, it must be said, worked out in a very auspicious way for Audra, who was on the COVID of Time magazine in the days after this was published, who has been doing a lot of press, not because this happened, but because it's the week leading up to the Tony Awards and she is one of the frontrunners for Best Leading Actress in a Musical, playing Rose in Gypsy. But seeing as this had all coincided in such a way, Gayle King asked her for her response to Patty's comments and also Audra shared this. Let me quote it directly this. In the CBS interview, Audra said, if there is a rift between us, I don't know what it is. That's something you would have to ask Patti about. I haven't seen her in about 11 years, which surprised me almost as much as hearing Patty say, audra's not a friend, just because we've been busy just with life and stuff. And, you know, there are videos of Audra helping to celebrate Patty being recognized at awards and things, and the two of them, them hugging and singing, get happy, Happy days are here again together. So, you know, if they haven't seen each other in 11 years, prior to that, they did seem to be very close, not just as colleagues, but really as friends. In any case, she finishes by saying, I don't know what rift she's talking about. You'd have to ask her. Which is obviously a very classy response, not stooping to the level of name calling. And this is, you know, an adjective with which we've always associated all Audra McDonald. She is very classy. She's talked about various different issues while backstage at Gypsy. She's published a lot of thoughts on social media about the community. Just as a side point here, before we continue, one of the standout moments, I think, from this awards season is that on the day of Tony nominations, unlike the morning of Tony nominations, Audra had already had flowers sent to all of her peers. And in the Best Leading Actress in the Musical category that had been sent to their different theatres that I think were colour coded to the shows that they were in, which speaks to an extraordinary level of class and also preparedness. But then further to that, last night I was at the Drama Desk Awards in the press room and Audra won Best Leading Performance in a musical alongside talented rising star newcomer Jasmine Amy Rogers in Boop. Who spoke about how throughout this time, publicly and privately, Audra had extended her a wonderful amount of grace and support and how she really looked to her as not only an acting inspiration, but an industry leader as well. And some people had been commenting on my last video once Audra had responded to this, to say that, like, she'd pulled a Mariah Carey, like, I don't know her thing. And that's really not what this is, because the Mariah response is a willfully shady one. And I don't think this was whatsoever. This was extinguishing any drama between the two. A lot of people said that, you know, it shouldn't have been called a feud in the first place because it was one sided. And we can argue back and forth about what really constitutes a feud here or what constitutes drama, but Audra made it very clear in this moment that that wasn't going to be a narrative that she was going to perpetuate. She was acknowledging what had been said, wasn't making any excuses for it, but just evading any sort of dramatic escalation, which, like I said, a very classy response. But the real surprise came when Patti LuPone herself responded to all of this with a public apology, which is perhaps the last thing that we expected from Patchy Lupone, who, like I said, has always been outspoken and characteristically unapologetic, something that she indicates herself in the first line of this. Here is what was shared. This is the official statement. For as long as I have worked in the theatre, I'm not going to do an impression that doesn't seem like the time. For as long as I have worked in the theatre, I have spoken my mind and never apologised. We know this to be true. That is changing today. Bold, dramatic as well. I am deeply sorry for the words I used during the New Yorker interview, particularly about Keisha Lewis, which would be demeaning and disrespectful. I regret my flippant and emotional responses during this interview, which were inappropriate. And I am devastated that my behaviour has offended others and has run counter to what we hold dear in this community. An acknowledgement of that as well, sort of. In response, presumably to the open letter, I hope to have the chance to speak to Audra and Keisha personally to offer my sincere apologies. I wholeheartedly agree with everything that was written in the open letter shared yesterday. Directly responding to it, wholeheartedly agree with everything, was the wording there. From middle school drama clubs to professional stages, theatre has always been about lifting each other up and welcoming those who feel they don't belong anywhere else. I made a mistake. I take full responsibility for it and I'm committed to making this right. Our entire theatre community deserves better. Patti LuPone. And it would be naive for any of us to assume that this wasn't written with the support of a team and PR and, you know, those close to her, which is just the reality of crafting a public statement when you are a public figure. That's just a reality of the world that we are living in. What's important is that it is signed Patti LuPone and that she is endorsing and sharing that statement and standing by everything that is said. And I think not that this is my apology to accept, and that's not what I'm suggesting here, that this is a very well crafted and thorough apology. I've seen some comments saying that by her saying, I hope to have the chance to speak to Audrey and Keisha personally is not quite as powerful as committing to doing so. And yet I think, you know, she can't speak for them and it may be their decision that they don't want to entertain this conversation. Like, she doesn't get to say, we're going to be friends again, I'm going to make this happen. She can only speak for her desire here, which is to hope to have a conversation with the two of them. Oh, to be a fly on the wall when that conversation happens. I also think it does respond very well to the ideas shared in the open letter and the idea of invoking community and the importance of those values. It doesn't really respond specifically to ideas around racially motivated statements, which I do think is fair enough. I think, reading through that whole New Yorker piece, she has such fiery statements to share and recollections about all sorts of individuals from throughout her career. And we know this about Patti LuPone, and I think she was indignant and incensed with rage at the very allegation of racism and microaggression in the first instance, and didn't really take the time at that point, back when this all first happened, to understand where Keisha was coming from and to understand the concept of the microaggression and to consider that she had done something offensive in inadvertently without intention of racism. And it was a lack of checking privilege there, which may sound like a generic virtue signalling woke statement, but it's true and it's an important thing. And this is the entire idea about why checking privilege is something that's important to do in the first place. You have to acknowledge the road that you have walked on in life in this industry that hasn't been without its challenges. Patti in that piece, like I said in the first video, acknowledged the challenges faced by actresses in the years that she had been working, how difficult it was to be a woman in this industry. She said that many times before she had retired from doing musical theatre. The only reason that she did the company revival was to work with a female director in Marianne Elliott. She was so close to finding a way to understand the challenges faced by the Audrey's of this world, the quiches of this world, which have been more so than hers. Because. Because even though she has the challenge of being a woman in this industry, she's also been a white woman in society and in this industry. And it was the lack of readiness to acknowledge that fact and to acknowledge the struggle. You see it in her discrediting Keisha's status as a veteran. Because Keisha, in that social media video that she posted, said, from one veteran to another, Patti LuPone. And Patti in the New Yorker piece said, she's not a veteran. I'm a veteran. How many shows has she done? How many shows have I done? They've both done a huge number of Broadway shows. They're both Tony winners, as Audra, of course, is as well, Audra, the most Tony Award winning actress of all time. But the fact that Patti didn't see Keisha as a veteran because she hadn't done quite as many shows and was ignorant of the fact that there might be a reason for this, that, you know, there aren't as many parts available to black actresses as to white actresses, or that she hasn't had the same kind of opportunities with the likes of, like the Roommate, a play that Patti got to do after giving up her equity card, speaks to ignorance of privilege here. I also think for those who criticize the apology by saying that, like, her hand was forced and she had to say all of this, yes, it's true to a certain extent, but at that point, then there's nothing that she could say. There is no apology big enough because she's already in those circumstances. And I think you have to take this to a certain extent in good faith, which doesn't necessarily mean that all has to be fair, forgiven for those from a community offended here, certainly for the individuals that were spoken about. And I think more so than anything else, this does feel like an issue truly between individuals, between these actresses, between all three of these actresses. Because Keisha, because it's not, you know, Audra versus Patty is getting left out of this conversation, but at the same time, it is completely understandable, completely valid for feelings of pain and disappointment to be felt by people from those associated communities. Right. And so that's covered everything that's happened and the response to all of this. I do have a few final thoughts. I've talked about some of them already, about how, you know, this all centers around privilege and how it's more important, I think, for us to have bigger conversations about systemic issues and behaviors and the things that we tolerate and sweep under the rug more so than one individual and statements made in one particular article. I do also think that it's important to hold people accountable to those kind of statements. I think, you know, as challenging as it can be, we all have to come to terms with disappointing things said or done by our problematic faves. And I saw far too many, and I'm sorry to say this, often gay men in comments on, on my recent video across social media claiming, like, teampatty and suggesting that there is nothing that she could ever say or do that would take away from her iconic status and legacy, because it's simply not true. I don't think anyone has given so many great musical theatre performances or one enough Tony Awards that they are above criticism or condemnation. If they do something that is so clearly rude and discrediting of others within the industry and probably problematic. However you want to characterize Patty's behaviour, of course it's open to legitimate criticism, especially by those who it was towards and affecting. I think we have to be able to have the conversation because that's how the community as a whole is able to move forwards. And I think moving forwards is the best possible outcome for all of this. And I hope for all involved, particularly for Audra and Keisha, if not, you know, resolution, then everyone can find peace amongst all of this. There are frivolous conversations that we could have about, like, how does this affect Tony voting and public perception and PR and all these things. And I don't think any of that is nearly as important as the bigger conversations around, you know, an awareness and acknowledgement of privilege. And I think alongside this, the kind of stories that we're telling on Broadway and the kind of productions. I keep thinking, you know, how brilliant that this production of Gypsy is happening. And I shared in my review, it's not my favorite production of the show that I've ever seen, but I was so excited when it was announced that this kind of ceiling had been broken, this door had been opened. However you want to describe it metaphorically. I'm thrilled that we're getting to see a production where Audra is playing Rose. I think she is extraordinarily qualified to do so. But also everything that is happening because of that, like Joy and Jordan getting to play these roles and the kids getting to play the younger version of these roles because Audra is Rose, like, the production wouldn't necessarily be happening otherwise. The creatives, George C. Wolfe and Camille A. Brown and everyone else working on this show because of Audra and her talent and her legacy. And I think moments like that are historic and important and part of the changing face of Broadway. And I think extraordinary progress has been made. But it's also a conversation that it's important to keep having. I think, you know, in criticism of that production, much of it is valid and legitimate because I think, you know, criticism is a legitimate thing. At the same time, I've also seen a really disappointing amount of commentary on this production that is just solely rooted in race and a willful, you know, refusal to understand the concept of the different story that this production might be trying to tell. And finally, my concluding thought about all of this is addressed not to Patti, not to Keisha or to Audra, but to all of us commenting on this and having conversations around this. And I think, you know, in all of this, if you don't necessarily understand where Keisha was coming from, if you don't necessarily understand the conversation that we're now having around this, if you think this feels disproportionate, if you think that, like, if you're any one of the people who commented saying nothing Patti said was wrong, if you're, you know, ignoring the clearly offensive remarks that she made discrediting the careers of these actresses, I would encourage everyone to open their minds just a little bit to try and lead with a little more empathy and understand all of the circumstances and the challenges and the different life experience experiences that have brought everyone to this point, I think that's an important thing for us to all try and do, to all understand each other a little better. So, like I said, hoping for resolution, if not resolution, then peace. And hopefully all of this drama can be extinguished and we don't need further updates to this. And rather than making it about this battleground between divas, hopefully it can be a moment that can foster a conversation or around how we do support each other and talk about each other and the values that we really want to uphold within the Broadway community. Those are my thoughts about it, at least. And I think all of us myself included because I have a platform because I talk about these things, need to help to support those values and have those important conversations and I will endeavour to do so and I hope that you do as well. Let us all try and find a shared understanding and a shared humanity and just be considerate of each other's lives and different experiences. Anyway, that has been hopefully the final chapter of this whole situation. If you want to stay up to date on all subsequently ensuing Broadway news and perhaps drama about something else happening next week, post Tony Awards. Whoever knows, make sure that you're subscribed here on YouTube. Do feel free to weigh in in the comments section section down below. Let's all remember to engage with grace and with understanding as always and I hope you enjoyed listening to this and as always I hope that everyone is staying safe and that you have a stagey day. For 10 more seconds, I'm Mickey Jo Theatre. Oh my God. Hey, thanks for watching. Have a stagey day. Subscribe.