163. Josh Johnson: Reinventing the Modern Comedy Special

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out – Episode 163: Josh Johnson: Reinventing the Modern Comedy Special

In Episode 163 of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out, comedian and prolific content creator Josh Johnson joins host Mike Birbiglia to delve into the evolution of modern comedy specials. The episode, released on March 24, 2025, offers an insightful exploration of Josh’s innovative approach to comedy, his creative philosophies, and the shifting landscape of the comedic arts.

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1. Introduction to Josh Johnson and His Comedy Journey

Mike Birbiglia opens the conversation by lauding Josh Johnson's impressive career. He highlights Josh's extensive experience as a writer and correspondent for The Daily Show, as well as his substantial library of YouTube comedy specials. Mike emphasizes Josh’s natural storytelling abilities and his unique position in the comedy world.

"Josh is a brilliant comedian. He is a natural storyteller. He's a natural sort of comedy writer." (00:21)

2. Josh Johnson’s Prolific Comedy Approach

Josh elaborates on his method of producing comedy content, emphasizing his decision to film every set and release them online. This strategy allows him to bypass traditional industry gatekeepers, granting him greater creative freedom and consistency in his output.

"I just think [Josh’s approach] is completely fascinating and completely original." (00:21)

3. Transition to YouTube and Cutting Out Middlemen

Josh discusses how a friend encouraged him to focus on topical material, which led him to start posting his performances on YouTube. This move transformed his creative process, fostering a "free flowing conscious joke to joke, to joke, to story" format.

"I was just taking that tape. And then the only real pressure was that... I really had to just like get it in one." (03:19)

4. Creative Philosophy: Balancing Patience and Persistence

The conversation shifts to the delicate balance between being patient and persistent in a creative career. Josh underscores the importance of consistent effort while allowing time for growth and improvement.

"If you're equal parts persistent and patient, then I like that. That's like a recipe for success eventually." (39:32)

5. Modern vs. Traditional Comedy Career Paths

Josh contrasts the traditional pathways to comedy success—such as open mics and Comedy Central half-hours—with the modern, internet-driven methods that prioritize online presence and viral content. This shift has democratized the field, enabling more creators to gain visibility without relying solely on established industry channels.

"The dynamic of show business... has completely turned on its head." (29:43)

6. The Stock Market Analogy for Career Perception

Using a stock market analogy, Josh and Mike discuss how public perception of a comedian's success can be volatile. They liken comedians to startups, where popularity can fluctuate based on audience reception and external factors beyond the comedian’s control.

"If your stock goes down, those people jump ship." (13:13)

7. Embracing One’s Unique Comedy Style

Josh emphasizes the importance of staying true to one's unique comedic voice rather than attempting to emulate others. He argues that authenticity not only fosters personal satisfaction but also resonates more effectively with audiences.

"I'll say that if you're not saying it now... if you get it 10 years from now." (20:42)

8. Practical Joke Crafting Discussion

Mike and Josh engage in a practical exercise where Mike presents a joke premise involving a conversation with a building superintendent about animals in the walls. Josh provides constructive feedback, helping to refine the joke's structure and delivery for maximum comedic effect.

"Josh Johnson: And so do you think that in making the joke, are you trying to express one specific thing?" (42:28)

9. Personal Anecdotes and Humor

The episode is peppered with humorous exchanges and personal stories, illustrating Josh’s comedic style. These anecdotes not only entertain but also exemplify his ability to weave personal experiences into relatable humor.

"Josh Johnson: There's something very funny about the idea that, like, there are things that are confined to a relationship that you would never let out." (43:38)

10. Advice for Emerging Creatives

Josh offers valuable advice to aspiring comedians and creators, stressing the importance of focusing on what brings joy and personal fulfillment. He cautions against excessive self-comparison and encourages creators to prioritize their unique visions over external expectations.

"If you make your passion and the thing you're chasing, winning a Grammy for best comedy album... it's not up to you." (36:34)

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Notable Quotes

• Josh Johnson on Creativity and Consistency:
  "I think if you don't know what to want next, you're just going to want what someone else has." (34:10)

• Mike Birbiglia on Josh’s Potential:
  "Josh is definitely in the running to be one of the goats, if not the goat in comedy." (20:27)

• Josh Johnson on Modern Comedy Platforms:
  "Open mics, make shorts in your basement, and you blow up." (29:43)

Conclusion

Episode 163 of Working It Out provides a comprehensive look into Josh Johnson’s innovative approach to comedy. Through candid discussions and collaborative joke crafting, Josh and Mike explore the evolving nature of stand-up comedy, the importance of authenticity, and the strategies for sustaining a creative career in the digital age. Listeners gain not only entertainment but also practical insights into the mechanics of modern comedic success.

For those interested in more detailed segments and full video content, Josh Johnson’s performances and additional material are available on his YouTube channel. To stay updated on future episodes and shows, subscribe to Mike Birbiglia’s mailing list.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the moments when notable quotes and discussions occur within the episode transcript.

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Timestamps

• 00:21 – Introduction of Josh Johnson
• 03:19 – Discussing early YouTube posting
• 13:13 – Stock market analogy
• 20:27 – Mike on Josh’s comedic potential
• 29:43 – Modern vs. traditional career paths
• 34:10 – Josh on knowing what to want
• 36:34 – Advice on focusing passion
• 39:32 – Balancing patience and persistence
• 42:28 – Joke crafting exercise
• 43:38 – Personal anecdotes discussion
• 44:43 – Further joke development

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This summary aims to provide an engaging and thorough overview of the episode for those who have not listened, capturing the essence of Josh Johnson’s contributions and the insightful dialogue between him and Mike Birbiglia.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have this joke about how where you say Covid killed millions of people, but somehow everyone I owed money to lived.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Who do you owe money to?

[Josh Johnson]

We've settled the debts now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

We're in a much better place. But at the time of taping, I was like, man.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is the voice of the great Josh Johnson. We have a great episode in store for you today. This. This is actually. This is one of my favorite episodes we've ever done. I've been accused of saying that before, but I will say it was definitely one of these episodes where we came out of it and we were just like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what the show is meant to be. Josh is a brilliant comedian. He is a natural storyteller. He's a natural sort of comedy writer. He wrote for the Daily show for many, many years. He's been a correspondent on the Daily Show. He has an extensive library of his own little YouTube comedy specials, which are just fantastic. I mean, there's. There's so many of them. You got to go over to his YouTube channel and check it out. So I'm really thrilled about this episode today. Thank you to everyone who came out to my show, the Good Life at the Beacon Theater in New York. It was a culmination of two years of touring, maybe my favorite show I've ever done. I'm actually doing one encore show I'll be announcing soon at Largo in Los Angeles on April 14th. Go to burrbigs.com and sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about that, because that will go very quickly. I love this chat with Josh Johnson today. I just love this episode. We talk about craft. We. We talk about. Probably the thing I'm most fascinated about is just how prolific he is and this innovation he had, which was just to film all of his sets and just sort of put them into the world. And I just think it's completely fascinating and completely original approach to this whole thing. And we could have talked for four hours. So enjoy my conversation with the great Josh Johnson. Working it. The thing that I find so astounding about your career is that it's like a thing we talk about on the show all the time. Like, we get all these questions, how do you start? And, you know, how do you break in and all this stuff? And I think you're a quintessential example of you. You started and you finished. It's like you figured out how to create an act in 20 minutes and an hour. And. And then also you filmed It. And also you released it. You basically cut out every middleman that there is in show business. Oh, and there's only, there's only a few people who've done that. Like I, like, I remember talking to Alana and Abby from Broad City and like, yeah, like there's, there's a few people who've done it and, and that's kind of it. I'm just curious, like, how do you, how did you start doing that?

[Josh Johnson]

I had always been writing a lot and then a good friend of mine was like, you should do topical stuff since you already write so much stuff. Because I, I think he had told me that he hadn't seen me do the same set. And he had seen me like eight or ten times in the course of like a couple months. But it was always like, you know, some of them were mics and some of them were shows. So it's like, yeah, I've always written a lot and I've always like tried to think a thing out quickly and then write it out quickly and stuff. But then applying it to topical was the first time that I was like, oh yeah, there will be finally a place for all this stuff to go, right? Because what I had been doing before I started posting it online was just sort of like doing the joke for a week or a month and then just like moving on outside of my opener and closer. So like opener and closer would stay the same. Cause they were my favorite two jokes. And then everything else would just like move around from there. And so then when we decided to start putting it out, I was just going up at the seller and then the seller's kind enough to like tape the set and then give it to you. So then I was like, I was just taking that tape. And then the only real pressure was that because the seller's taking the tape of your performance and giving it to you, I really had to just like get it in one. Yes, that's right. So then getting it in one became what felt like the real free flowing conscious joke to joke, to joke, to story, to joke. And then once I started booking some more dates on the road because I had started doing this during the writer strike. So I wasn't like working at Daily show at the time and I wasn't on the road as much. Cause things were fine, but not great. And then when I finally started getting some bookings, I was like, well, let's try to keep to that thing. Can we get it in one? And so there would come times where you had two or three shows in a night. And so it's like three chances, and then you're like, okay, I think the middle one went best. And so you still just put it up that way. And then I also. I think it's a. It's a product of being a little bit annoying that I have a lot of feelings and thoughts on everything, and I think that I finally found a way to channel it that is not annoying in real time, if that makes sense. So it's like. It's like, now I don't have to burden my girlfriend and my friends with this, like, long series of things that I think are funny about something, but still, if they don't care about the thing, then we were already off to a bad start.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think comedians, significant others everywhere will relate to this part of it.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like. It's like, at least uploading to YouTube gives my girlfriend some relief of me just talking all the time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, that could substitute for therapy.

[Josh Johnson]

I. I suppose so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For couples therapy. I mean. Yeah. Because it. Because it is interesting. You have this uncanny skill of being able to just go, go and go and go, and so few comics have that.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, our. Our. I wonder if there's, like, a correlation with it and being an only child, because that could maybe help. Yeah. I mean, so I think. I think that, like, everything I do on YouTube is what I used to do to my mom. Yeah. I mean, it's like that was the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's how they invented YouTube.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It was just originally kind of excess and my spillover. Spillover from your mom.

[Josh Johnson]

100%. So then it would just be Burnham's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All early videos were all about.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that. No, I just. I. I would. I would just go on and on and on, and then, like, I could also. This is before I ever really thought about comedy in that way necessarily. I like making my mom laugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But I would, like. I would see where my mom as. As, like, gracious as she is and was at the time to this, like, little kid who could just go on and on forever. I would see the dip. I'd see where I started, like, bombing with my mom. I told my friends this before they know of. Like, sometimes I would be talking with my mom, and she'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah. And it's like, once you get one of those, it's like, all right, you got to. There needs to be a time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Pick it up. You got to give it a surprise.

[Josh Johnson]

Where's the twist?

[Mike Birbiglia]

The punchline?

[Josh Johnson]

Where's the turn. Yeah. You got to bring it home now. Once you get a. That's. That. That's only a parent's love, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is so good. You know, that's exactly right. I mean, but it is a really unique skill because most comedians are. You watch and you go, okay, there's the joke. There's the joke. There's the joke. And you just have a flow on stage. You just keep going.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. I feel like there's. I don't know. I. I think you're there. There's always a grass is greener aspect to doing comedy because I see other people and I'm like, oh, man. Sometimes I wish I thought like that. Like, I'm still glad that I'm me. Yeah. When everything is said and done, I like doing comedy the way that I do it because it's how I process things. But then you'll see someone who's just, like, so sharp and punchy, and sometimes I'm like, ooh, I should. I wonder if I should do more of that. Or like, yeah. Or like, I wish I thought that way. And then, you know, you. You come back to yourself and you're like, all right. I enjoy the way that I think, like, it's not like, pure wishing I was, like, someone else.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But I think that it's worked out in that way that I'm doing something that isn't as normally done. So there's, like, you know, at least for the. For the time being, some appetite for it. Which is nice, because I feel like when I was just doing these things, but not topical and not recording, it was like, no one noticed it, if that makes sense.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, totally. I mean, I think it's astonishing and, like, a great example for a lot of creatives listening to this show. And, like, I. I always say, like, there are things that you can make that in. That years ago. 10 years ago, would cost 10, 20, $30,000.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That now cost, like, $500 in terms of, like, camera technology and videoing things on iPhones and stuff like that. Like, you're basically putting out fully produced comedy specials every few weeks or so. And they look as good as anything, in my opinion.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure. I mean, I think it's also the. I really believe in everyone's burden. That's a creative. To make the thing that's on their mind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And I think that I look at it as. I've seen people who are incredible painters, incredible at whatever their art is, and they. They lose a little bit of their time with second guessing themselves and trying to make it perfect or whatever, right? When you have to remember for people who don't draw at all, the drawing is amazing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

And maybe if you're doing it to try to impress people who draw like you and you're trying to be a. Or like you're playing to the back of the room essentially, then yeah, I could see getting like a bit in your head to the point where you don't release. But I just don't think in a world of noise, anybody is gonna be particularly critical of your chatter to the point that you shouldn't put it out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that's very smart.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I think because so much of what is made is bad in general that, like, you made a bad thing. If you make a bad thing. Like, I don't know until I know how the show went for the people there. Yeah, I don't know how It'll go for YouTube until I put it on YouTube. So I can't, I can't stress myself out too much about how it will be received on YouTube because job number one, which was making the people who came to the show part of an experience and making sure they had a good time is like, done right? So it's like, if you did job number one, then everything else is like. Is like extra. Everything else is like this extra blessing that you get. But at the same time, if I. If I feel like whether I put stuff out or don't put stuff out, I don't know what, what general impact that has on the world, But I do know that me not putting it out while feeling like it was a really good thing and not putting it out for some fear of some unknown is not gonna serve anybody. It's not gonna serve the people who inevitably, seemingly at least wanted to see it. Because whatever video did well, it's also not helping me because it's letting me sort of live in this general fear of what people might think, even though I already have some confirmation from the people who I did it for that they liked it. So it would only be me letting a louder insecurity trump a reality that I've already witnessed. And so then you just put stuff out and you get better, and you put stuff out and you get better, and then you build on that sort of confidence with a level of competence that you know what you're doing and you won't always get it right. I mean, I tell people all the time, like, I think sometimes it's easy when people are on the way up to like, look at them like a stock, right? Yeah, I think, I think in, in industry, both audience and. And reps look at us as stocks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, for sure.

[Josh Johnson]

And on the way, while a stock is up, it can only go up there can only. You can only go up. You're going up, and you're gonna go up forever, right? And then at the first sign of a dip, people are like, oh, I'm selling, I'm getting out, I'm done. And then you pop up again. And the people who stuck with you, who never sold were like, oh, yeah, yeah, it may go down a little bit, but it's always going to go up.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's going to be perfect all the time.

[Josh Johnson]

And then. And so you, you see that, like, ebb and flow. That ebb and flow for us is like our work. The ebb and flow for everybody else is the results of our work. And the results of your work are not up to you. So, like, I don't know how people will receive me 10 years from now. I don't know if anyone will still like me 10 years from now. But I know that if I stay on this path, I'll be making better work 10 years from now if I, like, if I stay focused on it. And it may not even be better by the standards of opinion, but I think it'll be better because I'll know what I've already done. I'll know the sort of pitfalls of doing that again, and I'll. And I'll be making that sort of path for myself. And when you're creating from that place, like, sometimes I wish I was, you know, five, ten years younger again just to take what I know now, that old thing. But I would not trade knowing what I know. I wouldn't just go into a time machine and go back 10 years ago and be, you know, a little younger again without the knowledge of what I have now. Yeah, I would just make all the same mistakes or make worse ones or that's whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's like a classic, a tell joke. He's like, I wish I could have sex with the person I lost my virginity to. I'd be like, ah, look at me now. Look who's not crying. But, like, I think what you're bringing up is like a. Is a really salient point for, like, a lot of people listen to the show because a lot of times we get like, questions like, how do you get an agent? How do you get a manager? And it's like, I think your point is really pertinent, which is it doesn't really matter, weirdly, because if your stock goes down, those people jump ship.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, like, what's crazy is, is that like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I don't want to, you know, look, I like my agents a lot, but also, like, if things. If I weren't creating this podcast, creating my shows and create my thing, like, they wouldn't be getting back to me that much, if at all.

[Josh Johnson]

Or worse. If you snap. If you snap. If a person loses their mind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

One thing that, like, never happens, this show. Yeah. Right. Like one thing that reps are not, are like mental health care providers.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Exactly.

[Josh Johnson]

So it's like if you snap and you go, you know, if you, if you go on some, some talk show and have an absolutely viral moment that is bad, that will not necessarily be covered by whatever relationships you already have. And who knows, maybe your stock goes down a little bit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally. But I think what it comes back to is like, to your analogy of the stock market. You're the company.

[Josh Johnson]

Mm.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And. Or you're the startup, actually is probably the more apropos analogy of it. And you ultimately have to create.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have to create all the time.

[Josh Johnson]

The problem I find with, like, for a lot of creatives who are getting started, sometimes just because of the landscape of what creation looks like now, it gets set on a path that is a bit unfortunate and it's a path that has, like, no joy in it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Because you. The advice you'll get from someone who's like four years into comedy, if you just started comedy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Will be like, all right, you gotta go up and you gotta do your open mics and stuff like that, but make sure you bring your camera.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

But anyone who's been doing stand up for like more than four or five years knows that no one should know what your first year of comedy looked like at all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know.

[Josh Johnson]

Unless you're making a long term project of like, if you were making a project that was like that Ethan Hawke one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure. It's like boyhood.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. If you're making boyhood and you're like, look, I believe in myself. I believe that I'm gonna make something of myself and make a living doing standup comedy. So I'm gonna document the entire thing to be an inspiration for people who haven't started yet, maybe people who aren't even born yet, I'm gonna record year one all the way to year 25. Right. Cause I'm that certain I'm gonna stick with it that long. Now we're talking about something. But if you're just trying to go viral while also not having enough time to fulfill a contract, when you do get booked somewhere, there are places that are, no, you didn't do your time. We're not paying you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

What are you talking about?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Josh Johnson]

We hired you to do an hour, and you did 25 minutes of rambling, and then you left. Why would we pay you? What's wrong with you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

This sounds like this example.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, luckily not me. But. But. But it is a. It's a true thing. If you want to get started with any. With any art, you know, you. You get focused on what it is you want to make and. And what brings you, what brings you joy about making it. And then if you like, obviously, everyone's gonna focus on the most successful versions of the people in their field, because that is what works and that is what is great, at least from a popularity perspective. I think, though, I saw this really great take on it one time, which was, when you start something, you are focused on the best in that field. Cause those are your heroes. So then you become incredibly critical of your work because you're comparing it to the work of the greatest people. So you're very down on yourself. Then you start to make better work. And it may still not be equal to the work of your heroes, but it's about equal to the work of your peers that started when you started. Then you get even further along, and you have potentially another dip because you're like, okay, now we're fighting with the comparison of. My hero was 10 years into comedy when they made the special that. That made me want to do comedy. And now I'm 10 years in, and it's like, what is that? What does that mean if I can't make my Sistine Chapel of comedy or whatever. And so then after that, if you get out of that third dip, which is like a really hard one, because that happens when you're like a decade into something. You get past that dip, and now you finally recognize that, like, all these heroes that you looked up to the entire time were just, like, people making work. And so then it doesn't, like, level yourself with them in your head, but it does create a bit of a safety net of understanding for yourself where you can be like, oh, George Carlin, one of the goats, was also just a guy that had ideas that bomb sometimes. And it took him a year to develop this joke that made me feel like comedy was the highest form of expression.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

So it wasn't like he was so brilliant. It just spilled out of his mouth. And he was. And he was that good. Yeah, yeah, he was that good eventually. And so it's like that. If you can make it to that space.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I think it's. It's almost impossible to be there in your mind and not be making great work, even if that work isn't, like, greatly recognized.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that's. That's a great point. When I'm watching your stuff, I'm like. He. I'm. I'm like, josh is definitely in the running to be one of the. The goats, if not the goat in comedy.

[Josh Johnson]

When I'm watching, I feel like, man, if you. If you could say that a decade from now and not right now, I feel like if you get. If, you know, if you're not saying it now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm saying. I'm saying I see it.

[Josh Johnson]

I need you to. On me, because, like, this is what happens, though. This is what happens. People get it excited. This is the stock that I'm talking about. People get excited, and they're like, Nvidia is never coming down. It's never coming down. And then Trump is, like, 250% tariffs.

[Mike Birbiglia]

On aluminum, and now people are like, Nvidia, Josh Johnson's at 4.5.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

It's like, oh, no, no, no. I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I. But I really see it, because when I'm watching your stuff, I'm just like, you're, I think, more prolific than anyone working, and I think the proof is in the pudding. It's all on YouTube. And I think you're as funny as almost any comic I know. And so then if you become more prolific and as funny or funnier than everybody, then you are the best. That is the best.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I think if everything stays the way that it is right now, I'll be in a good spot, because right now, I feel like most of the people that I watch that I enjoy are, like, funnier than me, and most of the people that I watch and enjoy are better at. They have a better level of, like, focus than I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, in my algorithm showed up a video from you, which was Kendrick versus Drake explained to white people.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why was it served to me?

[Josh Johnson]

You know, I think that sometimes the algorithm doesn't know how down someone really is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I'm saying.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I keep telling all my black friends. And I have so many of them.

[Josh Johnson]

It has no. It has no idea how many people you've dapped up. It has no idea of the groups.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You've been jumped into subtlety.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, Mike, one day, our people, like one day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, God. Yeah. So I guess that's a great one.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, thanks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Drake explained.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

White people.

[Josh Johnson]

It is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it does explain it, by the way. And I've read a lot. I listened to the daily episode about it. Everything. I mean, that was probably the best explanation.

[Josh Johnson]

Thank you. Thank you. I could tell from you saying that you read a lot about it that I was like, oh, man, there might have been some bits you were missing. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Support for working it out comes from Mud Water. Mud Water is a coffee alternative made of 100% organic cacao, masala, chai as well as mushrooms to give you natural energy and focus without the jitters and the crash. If you're looking to cut down on your coffee intake, try Mud Water. I love coffee. I tried Mud Water. I really like it. I still drink coffee. But it's nice to curb those caffeine jitters with the natural energy boost of Mud Water. They have all different kinds of flavors and blends. They've got got matcha blends. Who doesn't love that? It's earthy, it's slightly sweet. They got tumeric, which is a little spicy and warm. Perfect for a cold day. Ready to make the switch to cleaner Energy? Head to mudwater.com that's M u d w t r dot com and grab your starter kit today. Right now, our listeners get an exclusive deal. Up to 43% off your entire order, plus free shipping and a free rechargeable frother. When you use Code Burbigs, that's right up to 43% off with code burbigs@m u d wtr.com and after your purchase, they'll ask you how you found them. Please show your support and let them know working it out sent you. Keep your energy natural and refreshing all year long with Mud Water because life's too short for anything less than clean, delicious energy. This podcast is brought to you in part by Stash. With Stash, there's no more confusing, frustrating gatekeeping to keep you from investing. Stash isn't just an investing app. It's a registered investment advisor that combines automated investing with dependable financial strategies to help you reach your goals faster. They'll provide you with personalized advice on what to invest in based on your goals. Or if you want to just sit back and watch your money go to work, you can opt into their award winning expert managed portfolio that picks stocks for You Stash has helped millions of Americans reach their financial goals and starts at just $3 per month. Don't let your savings sit around. Make it work harder for you. Go to get.stash.com wio to see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures. That's get.stash.com WIO paid non client endorsement. Not representative of all clients and not a guarantee. Investment advisory services offered by Stash Investments LLC and SEC Registered investment advisor. Investing involves risk and investments. May lo you offer is subject to tncs. You toured with Trevor Noah for a bunch of years. Did he ever give advice to you on standup or anything that was helpful?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. So he, he told me, like, whether it's the act out or whether it's like the point you're making or whether, like, no matter what it is, to always still bring that, like, that energy and that level of fun. Jimmy. Like, I think that sometimes if someone has a point to make, even if a joke is coming and they seem far too. They just seem like they're not joking, it's not going to be received well. Even if the point is not the joke.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, you may be making a bunch of points and then facilitating them through jokes to create an arc and bring everyone to an overall conclusion.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

That happening still within that, in between jokes, you still have to remind people that they're at a show. You still have to. You know what I mean? Like, I think it would be. I think it would be a misstep to be like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna seem like we're not doing the show right now, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, you worked for the Daily show as a writer before. You were on camera for like four or five years. Bunch of years.

[Josh Johnson]

It was like, yeah. Like seven years as a writer. Wow. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you had a writer there and you know that you'd be good on camera.

[Josh Johnson]

That's very hot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You ever, like, you ever, like, hey, so you know who'd be good at saying these words?

[Josh Johnson]

I wrote, you know, I feel like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Someone like, you know, like what?

[Josh Johnson]

I. I also feel like the, the timing has to work out. And I think that when you, when you rush things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

You can put yourself in a position that is like, that. That's not necessarily for you to shine as much as, like, doing things at the right time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Josh Johnson]

So I think that, for instance, I'll give you a great example. Like when it came to the Comedy Central half hour.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I felt like I was Ready for it the year before I got it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And I was like, you know, understandably, kind of upset because it was back when a different era, before clips, before all this, like, before social kicked off in that way that there were only so many opportunities and there were really distinct and structured funnels to make your way through, to start getting a pass and start getting what felt like to the next level.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And this still happens. The Internet has opened it up in a lot of people's minds, so, like, young creatives or new creatives can. Can really sharpen whatever path they want towards whoever they want to be like, or whatever they find interesting. But as recently as, like, 2015, you know, so, like, just. You just go back 10 years ago, there was a world where you get your jfl, new faces, you get your Comedy Central half hour, you do your late night, you do, like, all these things that almost seem like you can or you can't, like, like, take it or leave it. Things used to be everything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

You know, like. Like the way. The way that Chicago, the Facebook group, would pop off when the JFL callbacks went out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And just the every. It was simple for me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. The dynamic of show business, and this brings us back to sort of what I think you're bringing to the table in an original way to comedy, is the dynamic of the comedy. Climbing the stairs of the comedy field right now has completely turned on its head.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It used to be you try to get new face, you try to work open mics, then you try to get new faces, then you try to get a talk show. Now it's like, well, forget all that. And he's like, literally, you could do open mics, you could do. You could Bo Burnham make it. Make shorts in your basement. And they blow up. They could do what you do. They video every set and put on your best sets on YouTube. And then you blow up. It's like, it's. It's so upside down. And I think the best way.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that, like, when I look back at that half hour, I didn't get it. The year that I really wanted it and that I really felt like I was, you know, good enough for it or whatever. And that was one of the first years where I had to accept. And don't get me wrong looking back, I was only, like, maybe three or so years into comedy or whatever. So it's like, it was one of those things where I was like. I also had to take a step back and be like, once I. Once they Came out. It changed everything. So the crop that I wanted to be a part of, the people who got the half hour that year, I watched all of them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And I was like, ah, this is very good. This is very good. Yeah, Jesus is very good. And then it started to. It. Then it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was in there.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, Drew Michael was there. Yeah, maybe. Maybe Lisa Traeger was in there. But, like, I knew some New York people that got it, some Chicago people that got it and everything, Louisiana People that got it. And I watched all of them, and there wasn't a single one where I was like, oh, this person. I feel like my set was, like, stronger than theirs or whatever. I felt like my set was really strong, but it was the first time I really accepted for myself this thing that people always tell you when you start out in something or when you're doing something of how subjective everything is about how you can't take anything, you can't take things personally, and you can't expect people to get you when you feel ready. Everything happens in its time. So taking all that back to your question about being on camera at Daily show or not, I was like, that's a lesson I learned a long time ago that I've taken with me ever since then. Cause I look back at that time and being like, okay, if I had got it when I wanted it, you can play Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda, but would I have been kind of meh versus when I did get it, which was the next year. And I felt like I was like, oh, man, this is it. This is like. And it was only better. And it was different as well. But it was like, you know, I don't even know what happened to the jokes that were in the first tape. But, like, the tape that I made after that, I was like, this is it. And then I got it as well. And then it went out, and then I got messaged by people saying, like, it was their favorite one or saying whatever. And I was like, I think everything happens on time. And that's not just. Cause I got it. There are some things I never got. And I'm like, fair enough. The crop that you picked for that were incredible people. So it's like the Internet has opened people's minds up to the fact that every path is not for you. And you also don't want everything. Some things you just want because other people have them, and you don't know what to want next.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, because you. Because at one time you wanted them and. But you've changed, actually, because that's what.

[Josh Johnson]

New Faces was for a lot of people. It's like you would think. You would think that New Faces was like, you die and go to heaven. The way people got so mad if they didn't get a callback or if they didn't get it. Like, you, like, people were ready to go to war. Like, people want it. And in Chicago, there's not that many industry opportunities at this time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

So New Face was one of the only things coming through town, and so people were ready to kill. And then you look back at it and you're like, all right, you go to Montreal for, like, anywhere from a week to three days. You do two showcases. You hope people are there. If you already have an agent or a manager, you don't need it as much. And it's not what it was when they were doing JFL Aspen, where it's like, people would leave with, like, development deals or, you know, the stories that you hear, though that already wasn't happening by the time we hit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People in show business are. Would rather find out from you what you're doing than you find out what they're doing.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's how I feel. How sophisticated your operation is right now. Like, they want to get 9 million views on their YouTube.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure, sure. But. But that's what I mean. It's like, I think that if you don't know what to want next, you're just going to want what someone else has.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And if you do know what you want, then, like, everything else sort of like, doesn't matter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, what do you. What? When I look at you, I'm like, I don't even know what you want that you, what you could want that you don't have. Like, is there anything that you're striving for? Big picture.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. I mean, I want to have the best. Like, these are. These are all of my, like, most selfish. Like, Id, like, like, like things that are, like, all ego.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, basest ego. It's like, I want to have the best catalog ever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I want to be remembered as, like, the best writer ever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The goat.

[Josh Johnson]

And then I want to be able to look back and be like, I made all of this art with all these different people as well. Like, you know, I have plans for, like, music to come out. I have plans for, like, all. All these other things that I want to be doing. And so I think it's really just like the, the ability to create. I want to have more of free flowing as well. So it's like with. That's Gonna mean I. I need to have more capital or more collaborators. So there's definitely stuff that I want, but there's no. There's no, like, thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have Timothee Chalamet esque aspirations.

[Josh Johnson]

I guess so, yeah. Because it's like, I see the speech. I saw some of it where he's like, I'm chasing greatness. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Like, I want to be like Kobe. Yeah, like that.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I like. I like that speech.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, jokes about it. I was like, no, no, I like that he's honest about it.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's also something you can only get for yourself as well. Because. Because anything that I want that someone else has to give me, I'll be, like, chasing for the rest of my life, even after I get it. So, like, if you want. If I say I want a Grammy for best Comedy Album. Right. There's no practical way to chase that thing within art. You're just gonna keep making your art, and they're either gonna give it to you or they won't give it to you. And then there's gonna be people that are like, you didn't give them. That's crazy. That's crazy. You didn't give them. But it's either gonna happen or it's not gonna happen, because it's not up to you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

So if you make your passion and the thing you're chasing, winning a Grammy for best comedy album, but you know, all of the politics and everything that goes into it as well, what do you. What are you doing?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

Whereas if you keep making stuff that you feel like you could comfortably say, I think this could win, like. Like, when I look at who's in the category, I think this is as good as what's in there. And you just know that to yourself quietly as well. You're not even making noise about it. You're just like, I'm really proud of what I did. I think it's up there with all the people that are nominated. And maybe you get nominated, maybe you don't, maybe you win, maybe you don't. But, like, chasing greatness is, like, such a personal aspiration that you, you know, on your deathbed that you did it or not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Everything else is kind of like people have to give it to you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

You know, like, even when people come to me and they're like, how do I write for late night? I really want to write for late night, I'm like, you, you could be the best writer in the world, but if you're not at the right place, the right time, and there aren't job openings, then it won't happen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. This is called the slow round. Who are you jealous of?

[Josh Johnson]

Jealous of. Okay, there's. Some people have already heard this story, but there was a time where I ran into a guy at a party who was also named Josh Johnson. And he was gorgeous, and he was much taller than me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's hard.

[Josh Johnson]

And at one point at the party, I'm pretty sure unprovoked, this dude was talking about, like, science. Like, he was talking about some theory and spinning a basketball. And I was like. I was like, I gotta kill him. I've never wanted anyone dead the way I want this dude did. I was like. I was like. So I was. I. I was seething with. It was Shakespearean, the level that I hated this dude. This was like. This was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's some globetrotter right there.

[Josh Johnson]

And also, it's not like he was talking about physics. He was talking about a totally different scientific theory while spinning. He was spinning the basketball because he. I just didn't. I guess he didn't have his mind on enough things at once. And so I just. Man, I hated that dude. And he was, like. He was, like, jacked as well. But not, like. But not in a gross way, because, you know, some people are so jacked, it's like, oh, you went too far. And now women actually don't like it because you're, like, sculpted in a way that looks, like, steroidy. Like, your skin's all tight.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a steroid level.

[Josh Johnson]

He was not that. He was, like. He was draped just enough within his clothes that you knew he was jacked.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yep.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, a nice oxford shirt, but he's, like, kind of busted out of it. And I was like, why couldn't your name be Derek? Like, I need one of these things to not be happening. Like, it. So, yeah. Yeah. Very jealous of him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's the best piece of advice someone's giving you that you used.

[Josh Johnson]

To be as patient as you are persistent?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I think that with. With patience, you can get yourself to a place where it's okay if you don't do it today or if you don't start or if you don't because you. Because things take time. But then persistence can also make you impatient, because you're just putting in the work every day. And that level of consistency should yield results, whether you're working out or you're working on your career or you're working on your relationship or something. But I think if you're equal parts persistent and patient, then I like that. That's like a recipe for success eventually. But you'll be ready for eventually because you're patient.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Support for working it out comes from Mint Mobile. Are you tired of high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost more in the long run? Then switch to Mint Mobile. Say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. If you like money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] perbigs that's mintmobile.com sprybigs upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required, equivalent to 15 bucks a month. New customer offer for 3 months only. Then full price options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. This is the working it out section where we talk through premises or ideas. I had one today. Okay, which was. And again, a lot of this is just half baked stuff where I don't have a punchline yet. Our. Our super came downstairs and. And Jenny, my wife, had called the super and because there were animals in the walls. And he got there and I didn't know he was coming. And then I was like, let me, let me put my wife on speaker. I put on speaker, Jen, what was the thing you're asking John Paul about? And she goes, she goes, there's animals above our bedroom. I go, okay, like in the ceiling. And said, yeah. And then she goes, and there might be animals above Una's ceiling or. That was in my dream. I was like, we can't really be on speakerphone with that kind of take.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Can say that to your husband, but you can't say that to the super.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I. So do you think that in making the joke, are you trying to express one specific thing? Are you trying to express how comfortable y'all are with your super?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, no, no. This is actually a good exercise. I'm trying to express that sometimes, occasionally my wife, whom I love so much, will say something where I'm like, I thought we were on the same page. That we would never say to a total stranger what might have happened in our dream.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We gotta go with hard facts. We got like a professional over.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We gotta tell them where the animals are.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Or where the animals aren't. But we. Or a lie even just be like, there's animals everywhere.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But we can't be like, maybe in my dream.

[Josh Johnson]

I think. I think there's. There's something very funny about the idea that, like, there are things that are confined to a relationship that you would never let out, you would never imagine doing outside of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Josh Johnson]

For most people, it's sex.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. That's funny. But for me, that's a good angle.

[Josh Johnson]

For me, it's things that we know when said out loud should be secrets. And as much as I love my wife, she tells her secrets to people besides me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is really strong.

[Josh Johnson]

And it makes me as uncomfortable as.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If she just started making sexual secrets. Yes. Like, it's like, of course.

[Josh Johnson]

It's like, no, not in front of him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, not in front of the super. Not in front of Jean Paul.

[Josh Johnson]

This is one of the worst threesomes you can have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's right.

[Josh Johnson]

Is sharing what might have been a dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yep.

[Josh Johnson]

But is actually. Because now he needs to hear it just so that we don't lose all credibility.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I made eyes with him just kind of like. You know what I mean? Like.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, well. Yeah. So you, as you as the guy there have to now be like, this is the first time she's saying that dream part. Just so you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The first time she's saying that dream part.

[Josh Johnson]

Just so you know. Because that's. Because so good what I tell you right now that I wouldn't have called you if I thought it was the dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The first time she said the dream part.

[Josh Johnson]

The first time she said the dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Part of the dream thing.

[Josh Johnson]

I want you to know because now. Now you. You completely separate from Jenny as Mike have to fight for your credibility.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I know.

[Josh Johnson]

So now you have to stand there and be like, listen, listen. Look, I know we call you for all sorts of things, but if she had said that dream part earlier, I would have told her to go back to sleep, see if she hear it again. Right. And then while she was asleep, I would listen for. I want you to know there's protocols before we call you. There's whole things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How much I respect you. I respect what you do.

[Josh Johnson]

I want you to know that in our marriage, we have a contract. And that contract is if Something is a dre. We don't take it outside until we're sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We don't tell the strangers about the.

[Josh Johnson]

Dream until we're positive. Because when I tell you that if you leave here. If you leave here and I hear something in the wall or the ceiling, I'm just gonna assume I'm in Inception.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Because I don't even know if I'm awake right now. Maybe we're both in my wife's dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then the other. Okay, so then the other thing I had on this run potentially, is the other night, my wife said to me, the free. The pipes are going to freeze unless we shut off the water in the basement. Let's go down into the basement. And I was like, oh, my God. And I. I go, okay, I'm ready to go down to the basement. And she goes, I'm afraid of the basement. And that's when I realized that let's go in the basement means I need you to go in the basement.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I. Yeah, that's all I have. Yeah, yeah. I think she tells you, let's go in the basement the way that you would, like, say to the police, like, let's go in the basement.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right. That's right. It's like, that's nice to bring it to the next.

[Josh Johnson]

This is wholly your thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Josh Johnson]

You know. And is she scared of the basement for a specific reason?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I think claustrophobia. She has claustrophobia, and I think generally, like dark space, afraid of animals, bugs, etc.

[Josh Johnson]

It's also very funny if you have all those things, if you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Claustrophobia.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, if she knows that you have all the things that make her scare the basement. But she was like, oh, I meant you when I said let's. Yeah, I mean, let you yourself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, let you yourself.

[Josh Johnson]

That's what the contraction is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what the contraction meant.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's very.

[Josh Johnson]

And so then you. You go down there, because now I'm interested as someone listening to you, what it's like for you down there not know, not just knowing that you might be scared of some of the same things she's scared of, but also now that you have to be alone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Because paint a picture of that basement.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Because there's something very funny about her. Her telling you, we need to go down to the basement. Pipes are going to freeze. Oh, okay. The time in between you said the last thing. Can you say that part again in the beginning?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. So she says, let's Go down to the basement. And then I go, okay, I'm ready to go down to the basement. And she goes, I'm afraid of the basement.

[Josh Johnson]

So right there, when you're like, the time between she says it and then you say you're ready, I feel like that's a great time to insert everything that is, like, feeling everything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't want to.

[Josh Johnson]

Because you don't want to go in the basement. Then you finally mustered up your courage, and you've been betrayed, because it's like, I never met. Go down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then the payoff is stronger, potentially.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And then you go down there, and then, like, something happens. Something doesn't happen. But then it's also very funny to me if you get back up from the basement after this hero's journey, this odyssey to, like, let the water flow so the pipes don't burst, so you don't have to go down to a wet, dark basement. Right. And you get up there, and she's asleep.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's really funny.

[Josh Johnson]

So she wasn't even waiting for you, like the way that Odysseus wife was waiting for him to come back from this? Yeah, I mean, like, he. Everyone thought he was dead. And she was like, no, my man is coming back to me. Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then all of that basement mythology.

[Josh Johnson]

Your wife sent you down to the basement. And they was like, you know what? I could go for a nap.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And then, you know, and then I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Had this the other day. I was. I was. I was on a trip, and I had a creek in my neck. I had slept on it wrong. And I went to the gym, and they gave me a. At the hotel, they gave me a foam roller so I could roll out my neck and my back. I'm on the elevator, and this lady walks on. She goes, what's wrong? What's wrong? Because I had the foam roller. What's the foam roller for, stranger? I go, oh, I have a little creak in my neck. She goes, you want oxy? I swear to God, I go, no. Like oxycontin.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was like, no.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She goes, you have oxy? I go, no, you want oxy? I go, no, because you have oxy. And then we get to her floor, she goes. She walks out. She goes, I have oxygen. I was like, this is the craziest conversation, is the craziest drug deal I've ever been by accident.

[Josh Johnson]

Because it's the first drug deal I've ever heard where I can't tell if the deal is from or to, like. Like, I'VE never heard someone offer me something, then ask me if I had the thing they were offering.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

Because that's. That's a bad salesperson.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a bad salesperson.

[Josh Johnson]

But I'll pitch you this. I do think that in this scenario, the poor attempt at drug dealing was the only time somebody was really trying to help you. Because the pillow obviously hurt you because you woke up with a crook in your neck. The person at the gym, spa, whatever, also didn't help you because foam rollers hurt.

[Mike Birbiglia]

True.

[Josh Johnson]

And so the only person offering you relief is a stranger.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Stranger.

[Josh Johnson]

You. And it's, like, doesn't have the oxy on them in the moment. Because that's an amateur move. That's an amateur. Anybody who knows anything about drug dealing knows you don't deal the drugs and have the drugs on you. Well, if you're a cop. Well, if you're a cop, going up there being like, oh, oh, my neck. Oh, no, I would love some illicit oxy. You know what I mean? So this person has to be careful. And so now they're asking you, hey, do you want Oxy? You say, no. All right. But that sometimes is cold for not yet. Do you have oxy? No. Okay. So they definitely want Oxy. All right? Because if you don't have it, you must want it. And if you don't want it, you don't want it yet. And that is what we call, like, real. Real business. Not taking no for an answer. Always be closing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

[Josh Johnson]

You know what I mean? And so I think that there is a thing, too, where if there's any point, like, let's say this becomes a callback later on from another story where you're also staying in this hotel, either again or later in your trip that you know what floor they got off at.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Josh Johnson]

So now if you have any reason to go that floor, you're probably gonna pass their room.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Josh Johnson]

And even if you don't want oxy, you may need their help. Cause they're the only person you know on that floor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's a good. That's a good point. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, so it's like, now you have a friend in the hotel.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This actually makes me think it ties in a lot to this whole other run of jokes I have about my broken shoulder many years ago. So it could tie into that.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Because now you're not gonna get. You're not just gonna randomly get on Oxy, Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

But how often. How often do you get an offer in an elevator while rolling Your neck. This is. There's a book called the Secret.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And sometimes, you know, the law of attraction, you're sitting there rolling your neck and it's not that. By the way, the oxy at least works.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I've been told to roll things that hurt and then they just hurt more and then maybe they got better. But I don't know if the rolling. I'm the jury's still out for me on rolling. And I'm no expert, but like, that to me is like, we know oxy does something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it was her way of saying, let's go in the basement.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. I. Are you more afraid of the basement or her hotel room? You know, because it. Because her hotel room might have all the same aspects.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I would be completely terrified to go to a stranger's hotel room. I would be like, no, I'm fully out on this.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a stranger's hotel room with oxy is. Is. It's a wonderland.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The last thing we do is called Working out for a cause. Is there a non profit that you like to support?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Feeding America.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, Feeding America is great. Great organization. We've given to them before. We will contribute to them again. We will link to them in the show notes. Josh Johnson, amazing to see you. And I don't know, Future Goat.

[Josh Johnson]

That's very kind. We'll see. I could still snap. Anything could happen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it Out. Cause it's not done. Working it out. That's gonna do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Josh Johnson on instagram and on YouTube. Josh Johnson comedy. The full video of this episode is on our YouTube channel, ikebirbiglia. Check it out. Subscribe. We will be posting more and more videos. Go to burbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list. To be the first to know about my upcoming shows, our producers are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia and Mabel Lewis. Associate producer Gary Simons. Sound mix by Ben Cruz. Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this, go to Apple Podcasts and just give us a few stars and rate us and review us and say which episode you enjoyed the most. The Ben Stiller and Adam Scott episode or the Tig Notaro or the Joe Firestone We've had over 160 episodes since 2020. Check out our back catalog and comment on Apple Podcasts where you think folks should start. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Let's say your enemies are the animals that are living in your ceiling above your bedroom that may or may not be in your dream. Maybe what you could do is you could play Mike Rubigli's Working it out podcast very loudly for the animals, and the sonic explosion will make the animals not even want to live there anymore. Or it'll make them fall asleep, and then they won't run around as much. All right, we're working it out. We'll see you next time, everybody.