168. Zarna Garg Returns: One Follower at a Time, a Million Times

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out" - Episode 168: Zarna Garg Returns: One Follower at a Time, a Million Times

Introduction

In episode 168 of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out, host Mike Birbiglia welcomes back the immensely talented comedian and author, Zarna Garg. Since her last appearance in 2022, Zarna has skyrocketed in popularity, establishing herself as a formidable presence in the stand-up comedy scene. Mike expresses his excitement about her achievements, including her new memoir, This American Woman, and her role in the indie film A Nice Indian Boy.

Discussing "This American Woman"

Zarna Garg delves into her memoir, This American Woman, which offers an unfiltered and honest portrayal of her life experiences. Mike highlights a poignant excerpt from the book—a dialogue between Zarna and her husband—that underscores her candid storytelling:

Zarna Garg [00:28]: "We slept together that night."

Mike commends Zarna's unwavering honesty, noting that none of her family members had the opportunity to read the memoir before its release. This decision emphasizes Zarna's commitment to authenticity, even when it strains familial relationships.

Comedy Career and Philosophy

Zarna shares insights into her approach to building her comedy career as a business. She reminisces about her early days performing for minimal audiences and contrasts that with her current status, where she entertains thousands. Her dedication is evident as she meticulously prepares for each show, ensuring that every performance is impactful regardless of the audience size.

Zarna Garg [04:20]: "One follower at a time, a million times."

This philosophy extends to her engagement with social media, where Zarna treats each follower's attention with utmost respect, viewing it as a precious commodity.

Experiences Performing in India vs. America

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Zarna's experiences performing in India compared to the United States. She discusses the challenges and unpredictability of the Indian entertainment landscape, where even a seemingly harmless joke can lead to severe repercussions:

Zarna Garg [08:40]: "If there's a rumor that you're gonna make a joke about something, you could have a lawsuit against, and they arrest you."

Despite these fears, Zarna bravely returned to India to perform, highlighting the cultural differences and her deep-rooted connections to her homeland. She emphasizes performing in English, leveraging India's vast English-speaking population to navigate the comedic environment more safely.

Family Dynamics and Arranged Marriage

Zarna opens up about her family's traditional approach to marriage, rooted in arranged practices common in Indian culture. She contrasts this with her American upbringing, where autonomy and personal choice in relationships are paramount. This cultural dichotomy is a recurring theme in her work, particularly in her book and comedic material.

Zarna Garg [17:03]: "I'm not writing a sanitized book and gonna lie to my audience..."

Her candid portrayal of family dynamics often leads to humorous yet insightful reflections on bridging cultural expectations with personal desires.

Creative Process and Developing Jokes

Zarna provides a glimpse into her creative process, detailing how she transforms everyday interactions into compelling comedy material. One notable example is her joke about "competitive Indian moms," inspired by a real-life encounter:

Zarna Garg [44:37]: "When two competitive Indian moms meet each other, how does it go?"

She meticulously writes down every detail of such interactions, enhancing them with exaggerated elements to amplify the humor. This methodical approach ensures that her jokes resonate deeply with her audience.

Personal Insights and Advice

Throughout the episode, Zarna offers valuable advice on personal growth and empowerment. She emphasizes the importance of betting on oneself rather than relying on others' uncertain opinions:

Zarna Garg [27:19]: "My advice is that it's a bigger bet. It's a bigger risk to bet on somebody else's advice."

Additionally, she discusses the delicate balance of accepting charity, especially given her own experiences relying on familial support during her early years in America. Zarna underscores the significance of maintaining self-esteem while being grateful for assistance.

Handling Criticism and Embracing Authenticity

Zarna candidly addresses the challenges of dealing with critics and "haters," particularly in the age of social media. She shares anecdotes of hostile interactions during her performances and how she navigates them with resilience and humor.

Zarna Garg [31:13]: "They are faceless and nameless, but their words matter... Was I too harsh?"

Her commitment to authenticity ensures that her comedy remains genuine, reflecting her true self rather than conforming to external expectations.

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Zarna highlights her support for charitable causes, specifically endorsing Unicorn Island, a nonprofit spearheaded by Lilly Singh dedicated to women's equality in India and beyond. Mike and Zarna reiterate their mutual respect and admiration, celebrating her accomplishments and the impactful messages she conveys through her work.

Zarna's journey from her roots in India to becoming a celebrated comedian in America is a testament to her resilience, authenticity, and unwavering dedication to her craft. Her insights offer valuable lessons on embracing one's identity, navigating cultural complexities, and the power of genuine storytelling in comedy.

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Notable Quotes:

• Zarna Garg [04:20]: "You don't get a million followers. You get one follower at a time, a million times."

• Zarna Garg [27:19]: "My advice is that it's a bigger bet. It's a bigger risk to bet on somebody else's advice."

• Zarna Garg [31:13]: "They are faceless and nameless, but their words matter... Was I too harsh?"

• Zarna Garg [44:37]: "When two competitive Indian moms meet each other, how does it go?"

• Zarna Garg [17:03]: "I'm not writing a sanitized book and gonna lie to my audience..."

Final Thoughts

Zarna Garg's episode on Working It Out offers a rich tapestry of cultural insights, personal anecdotes, and comedic brilliance. Her ability to intertwine her heritage with her American experiences provides listeners with a nuanced perspective on identity, freedom of expression, and the transformative power of comedy.

For those inspired by Zarna's journey and eager to explore her work further, This American Woman is a must-read, and her performances continue to captivate audiences across the nation.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm gonna read as your husband. Cause that's okay if that's not inappropriate. This is a dialogue between you and your husband.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When you first met.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So I'll be your husband. What about sex?

[Zarna Garg]

After a brief aneurysm, I said, Listen, Mr. Kamasutra, that comes later.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Later.

[Zarna Garg]

I'm not getting married for sex. Whomever I marry, it will likely be months, if not years before I ever have sex with them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Years.

[Zarna Garg]

Years.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then you can say the final.

[Zarna Garg]

Line reader, we slept together that night.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is a great piece of writing. That is the voice of the great Zarnagarg. I am so thrilled that Czernagarg is back. Since she appeared on this podcast in 2022, she has exploded. She is huge. She is an incredible stand up comedian with a fascinating life story. She has a new book, which is a memoir called this American Woman, which is amazing. That little bit you just heard is an abridged version of something from her book, a dialogue between her and her husband. As you can tell, she is just an extremely honest performer. We find out today on the show that no one in her family, who she wrote about extensively in this book was allowed to read the book before it was published. Which is wild. We talk about that. She just has a fascinating life story. She came to America from India as a teenager and has become an explosively hilarious and huge standup comedian. So anyway, couldn't be more excited about the episode today. A couple more shows coming up this summer with Nick Kroll, Fred Armisen and all in support of John Mulaney. Nick, Fred and I will probably do, I don't know, 15 or 20 minutes on the show. I think John's doing his full hour August 7th at the Westville Music bowl in New Haven, Connecticut. August 8th at Bethel Wood center for the Arts in Bethel, New York. You can get [e-mail] and my new show the Good Life will be premiering on Netflix May 26. Look for the trailer coming soon. This is a great chat today with Zarna. She is a powerhouse comedian. She talks about building her comedy career like a business. Her early days performing for one or two people. Now she plays to thousands. And she talks about how she approaches those shows in the same way she gives it her all in every show. She's also acting in a new movie called A Nice Indian Boy, which is a hugely successful indie film that's in theaters now. Enjoy my chat with the great Zarna Garg. The book is so good. The book is gonna be huge. Do you Feel like it's gonna be huge. It feels to me like it's gonna blow up because it feels like such a relatable story, but also outrageous of a story. Someone who comes from India not only becomes a comedian, but becomes like one of the most successful comedians in America.

[Zarna Garg]

It doesn't feel outrageous to me because it's just happening and I'm going along with it. I can't say that I orchestrated all of it. Even I'm very business minded and I talk about it quite openly. But you can't predict a lot of these things. You know, I had no idea what that there would be moms in Arkansas who would want to pay money to see my show. So we'll see what happens. I mean, you know, well, and also.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like you're, you're just more than anyone of almost any comedian I've ever met. You're so hyper prepared and focused on every gig. So like we did when Jen, my wife Jen's poetry book came out, you showed up and you did comedy, but also you wrote a poem for the event. Cause it was a poetry event. It's like, is that how you. And even like, you know, you talk about in the book about how you performed at Central park, you know, like, how do you approach different gigs the same way?

[Zarna Garg]

Same way, the same way. And it doesn't matter who's in the audience. Very famous people come and watch my shows, as you know, they come and watch your shows. It doesn't matter to me. They're all a paying audience for the most part. Some people, some very famous people won't come unless you give them free tickets. But we won't get into that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure, true.

[Zarna Garg]

But I believe, and when I started learning how to do social media, one of the things that I learned is that you don't get a million followers. You get one follower at a time, a million times. And you have to take everybody's attention very seriously. When they're coming to our shows, they're coming to our. Watching my video, even online or my YouTube or whatever, they're giving one of the world's most precious commodities their attention. And it deserves to be met with respect across the board. So no matter who's in there, and I'm also Indian, like preparing, taking tests, that's like our thing, you know, if.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You want, you've cornered the market.

[Zarna Garg]

That's our thing. Nobody else does that. No, everybody does it, but we only do that. We don't go out drinking, we don't play football. So what else are we gonna Do?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure. For sure.

[Zarna Garg]

I go with Tina and Amy. We go to different cities and states. Like, I'll always have three new jokes for that state or that city, but I want to. No one's asking me to do it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Zarna Garg]

You know, no one in the audience cares that I'm making. But you make that one joke that's specific to that town, and it instantly tells them that you care about them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, it's completely true. I think the best thing you can do is acknowledge, if you're a performer of any kind, acknowledge the room you're in, the city you're in, the state you're in, and the region you're in, basically.

[Zarna Garg]

And not so much different from being a mom who's hosting a dinner party.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's true.

[Zarna Garg]

That's another thing I psych myself into believing when I'm on a big stage.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

And I'm like, am I gonna get nervous? And then I'm. This is just a big dinner party.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I don't have to overthink it. They're just people I say that about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Stand up all the time. One of the reasons I love it as an art form is it's the simplest art form. It's one person speaking to two or more people.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the whole thing. So it is like a dinner party.

[Zarna Garg]

Sometimes even speaking to one person. I've done that too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. One person.

[Zarna Garg]

One person shows up with a loan ticket. What are you doing?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. And it's funny. You have a story in your book where you talk about performing for, like, three people and you. And you point out it was great.

[Zarna Garg]

It was great.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you do when you're in a situation where you're like, it's one, two, or three people to make it work?

[Zarna Garg]

I just lock in on them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I'm like, you know, you're here, I'm here. This is our moment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

You're getting all of me. And I'm gonna do crowd work with just you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

I'm gonna get you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All of you.

[Zarna Garg]

All.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where are you from? What do you do for a living? Yeah, sure.

[Zarna Garg]

And I feel like I'm kind of working my creative muscle a little bit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Zarna Garg]

I feel like a challenge has been thrown by the creative gods.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

And I'm not gonna shy away from it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's so weird. It's like when I was younger, I used to dread, you know, college gigs where you're performing in a cafeteria or, like, you're saying, in Central Park. And now I'm kind of like, what's the worst thing that can happen. Like, in some ways, it's like, it could make you better.

[Zarna Garg]

In many ways.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. This is what we talked about last time you were on the podcast, because I've always said to you, like, oh, you'll go back to India and you'll kill. You'll be the most famous comedian there. And you're like, at the time, this was in the years ago now, when we first became friends, you were like, no, no, I can't go back because my material is disrespecting my husband. And that won't fly there. But if you're famous enough, then they will be cool with it. So are you going back and are they cool with it?

[Zarna Garg]

So I went back last year, and it was a lot of emotional work to go there. I had offers to go for a while, but I was scared. Like, India is an unpredictable place, like a lot of those countries. I mean, like, America, too, at this moment is a little unpredictable, but India is very unpredictable. You make a joke about somebody in the audience unknowingly, and they're upset, and they can make a phone call while you're still on stage. And I was very nervous.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I remember that happened to Veer Das.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We talked about it.

[Zarna Garg]

And then they. I mean, the law.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He had, like, a lawsuit against him.

[Zarna Garg]

Multiple.

[Mike Birbiglia]

From. Yeah, from jokes he told.

[Zarna Garg]

You could have lawsuits about jokes you didn't tell.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a hard one.

[Zarna Garg]

No, it's true. If there's a rumor that you're gonna make a joke about this, my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If there's a rumor you're gonna make a joke about something you could have.

[Zarna Garg]

A lawsuit against, and they arrest you, they're like, we heard you're gonna talk about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's outrageous.

[Zarna Garg]

Recently, there was a club in Mumbai, actually one of the best clubs in Mumbai, that got destroyed.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Zarna Garg]

Because the rumor was that somebody made a joke about a Hindu God or something in there. So it's like. It's real. The fear is real. And I have my own anxieties because of my own background and history with how I left India and how I left Mumbai. So I was like, why am I doing this? I make money working here. I have people wanting to see me in New Jersey. Why am I going to New Delhi? But of course, it's my people, it's my family. And I went last year, and it was so amazing. I could not believe how much fun the audience was having.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm sure they were.

[Zarna Garg]

I was panicked, but it was all fine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then you perform in English?

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah. Only English.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Only English.

[Zarna Garg]

India has the largest English speaking population in that side of the world. Everybody speaks English.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Interesting. People keep telling me this. I want to go there.

[Zarna Garg]

You go there. There's no language barrier whatsoever. You land. Everywhere you go, the signs are in English. Everybody speaks English.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did people show up for my show if I went there or they were. Who is this person?

[Zarna Garg]

And not only will they show up, they will pay a very high ticket price, which is the one thing I did right. I priced my tickets very high in India for a strategic reason. Not just to make money, which was also true, but it kept the troublemakers out. You had to buy a very expensive ticket to see what was going on in my show. And it kept like the, you know, like, there are a lot of street thugs that just take pleasure in harassing women back there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

But, like, are they gonna pay like 200 US dol to. I think they will find somebody else.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So it went well. Do you think you'll go back?

[Zarna Garg]

I don't know. It's like a very. It's an internal struggle that, like, I struggle with a lot. I have a lot of anxiety. I'm not an anxious person in general and actually don't really believe in anxiety the way it's spoken of in your.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Perfect. I'm glad that we broke the ice on this.

[Zarna Garg]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't believe in anxiety either. And all these voices in my head are. They're not real. No. I'm just kidding. What do you mean by that?

[Zarna Garg]

I just, I, you know, they. They like my work in that moment, but it is really that unpredictable. That country and that environment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

You people don't understand how special America is. They just don't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

Here you can stand on stage and trash your president. Like. Like say whatever you want about your.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For the next few weeks. Next few weeks.

[Zarna Garg]

For the next few days. In my case. In my case, I'm not saying anything bad. And I have my passport in the car.

[Mike Birbiglia]

My passport in the car.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah. Carrying it with me everywhere I go these days.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Zarna Garg]

But you can do that here, anywhere else in the world, and especially in the brown countries. No, that is not an option. Now you're playing with fire. You don't know who you pissed off. You don't know who assumed it was about them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Zarna Garg]

You didn't even know this person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, God.

[Zarna Garg]

And now they're assuming that this whole thing was about them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you feel like it made you because you moved here when you were 16?

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So has the process of becoming a comedian, which is so based on free speech, has it made you patriotic as an American?

[Zarna Garg]

100%. I mean, I am that. That's why my book is titled this American Woman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This American Woman. Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

It's. I learned here, and I dedicated my book to American women because they taught me that I have a right, I have a voice. First of all, I didn't know that and that I have a right to use it, because back home, anytime I had a disagreement with anybody, they were like, who do you think you are? An American woman? You know, any negative influence in India is, like, that must have come from America.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Interesting.

[Zarna Garg]

And one of the negative things America brought to India is, like, women having opinions.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I have a big issue with that, too.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah, I understand that. So does my husband.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The. Do you feel patriotism towards India still?

[Zarna Garg]

I love India. I'm not a hater. Everything I write, the reviews are pretty much unanimous about how my writing is a love letter to India and to America.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I left India under very complex circumstances.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

So as much as I love it, I know that in my heart, I'm American.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I believe in free speech. I believe in women's rights. I'm doing everything I can to be supportive to the women's movements in America. I really believe in it. It's not just. I'm not confused about it. So as much as I love where I came from and I appreciate my roots, my roots taught me to work hard. I come from a family of very hardworking people. Very, like, intellectually curious people. I'm literally the dumbest person in my family. You know, people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you're a lawyer and a comedian.

[Zarna Garg]

A very bad lawyer. So we won't talk about that. So bad. But you know, comics. Sometimes people will come up to you and be like, that's the hardest job in the world.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

And I'm sitting next to my cousins who are brain surgeons that are ready to cry. And I do know what we do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you know what we do?

[Zarna Garg]

Do you know? So I'm the dumbest person, but I have so much respect for my heritage.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I come from a culture of people that really believes in doing good in the world and is contributing so positively. If you look at the amount of Indians who are scientists, who are doctors, who are engineers. I joke about it, but God forbid somebody is sick one day, you're gonna need the Indian doctor, I promise you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

It was some Indian doctor who was beaten up his whole life and whose mom is like, your passion is lung Transplant, that's your passion. You're not allowed to have any other passions. But she made sure that kid knew how to do this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

So I have so much respect for my culture. I don't have any hate towards it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you think that India will ever have a free speech movement akin to America, such that comedians like you actually, or Veer Das won't fear having some kind of blowback from a joke?

[Zarna Garg]

I don't feel hopeful about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Huh.

[Zarna Garg]

I wish it has that environment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

But I don't feel hopeful about it because from what we've seen, the world is kind of turning in the other direction in the last few years. And that's true also of India. So it's like, I wish, even just as a citizen, I wish for that type of freedom. If I was not a comic, but it's somehow been very, extremely polarized India, and it is kind of consistent with the trends you're seeing in the rest of the world. And it's becoming more conservative. I grew up with more freedoms than people have today.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No kidding.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah. I grew up in a Mumbai where you went out and you went and partied at night and we celebrated Valentine's Day in Mumbai. I remember as a teen reading about it in American comic books and then celebrating it in India. And today no one does it in India. Very rare.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is like one of my favorite parts of your book. You wrote this? In the summer of 1997, when I was 22 and a law student in Cleveland, Ohio, I put up a personal ad on an Indian singles website. And the ad said to some, I am too short or too plump, too dark or too argumentative. But enough about me. This is what I need from you. A husband and a partner. Somebody who is ambitious but not ruthless, confident but not arrogant, and humble but not timid. Most of all, honest. I'm on a mission to build a successful life and you must be ready to go with me. Only contact me if you want to get married. No friends. Kindly include the most recent tax returns and medical records. Come on. Standing ovation.

[Zarna Garg]

How smart was I pre Covid to ask for medical records?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Brilliant. That's an amazing piece of writing. Did you have any fear of publishing that? Of what? How people would respond.

[Zarna Garg]

The thing is that when you don't know, you don't know. You don't know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When you don't know, you don't know. You don't know.

[Zarna Garg]

I came from a world of arranged marriages. And in an arranged marriage setting, people say these things openly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Zarna Garg]

Like here we know that what the word arranged marriage means. Right. The phrase. But how it is executed in real life is that two sets of parents will sit and, like, basically bring their wares to the table. Be like, your son has a receding hairline, but my daughter wears glasses. This is fine. We have a match here.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But this is fine. We have a match here.

[Zarna Garg]

So I was kind of accustomed to very. To hearing adults talk about what it is that they wanted in a marriage context very openly. Like, my dad was ruthless. I have two siblings, two brothers and a sister. But when my brothers were getting married, because those were the more important kids, obviously he would ask, like, the parents of the women that he was meeting, well, how much does she weigh? And what is she learning in college? And how good is she at it? And what is her dream? And, like, we might need some records of make sure that she doesn't have any illnesses. So I thought I was being very forward.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You chose to raise your kids here.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How would them growing up be different in India compared to growing up here?

[Zarna Garg]

Well, for one thing, they wouldn't be allowed to have so many opinions. My all American kids have a lot of opinions about everything, including my life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

But they would not have the freedom.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

They would not have the freedom to do whatever they want to do to be who they want to be, and that would be tragic, for sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Last time you were on the podcast, I read the essay that Zoya, Zoya Garg wrote, your daughter to get into college is beautiful. And how's she doing? Is she out of school now?

[Zarna Garg]

She's going to graduate in three months, and she's doing great because we reached some agreement because her being in college was a traumatic process for me, you might remember.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, So I remember.

[Zarna Garg]

So she wanted to get a degree and all these things that I was like, what are we going to do with any of these degrees? And it was so expensive. So we reached an amicable solution, which is a very classic Indian solution. She could do what she wanted as long as she also did stem on the side. So she's graduating with two degrees.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Zarna Garg]

She's getting a degree in computer science, but she's also getting a degree in classics because she wants to be a writer. So it's better now. For many years, I was losing my mind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I remember because you did a whole piece on this American Life about it.

[Zarna Garg]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You were so upset about your daughter kind of not studying what you perceived as practical things.

[Zarna Garg]

Yes. But I mean, am I wrong, Mike? Am I wrong? Come on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm Just. I'm not going to comment on this. I mean, I was just. It was so funny when I heard that piece on this American Life. I was like, how much is Zarna playing into the character that is Zarna Garg versus feeling this way? Because you are a quintessential example of someone who's succeeded in the arts. So can't you see that Zoya just wants to do something creative also?

[Zarna Garg]

But I built it like a business. My kids have seen that. Like, they know that I'm very, very methodical about what I'm building.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

If I was not making money as a comic, I would not be doing it. Even though I love it, I couldn't afford it. I have three kids. I have a whole life I have to pay for. So now the compromise that my daughter and I have reached is that if you want to do something creative, show me that you can build it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

And now she has been in charge of running my book pre order campaign.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I saw.

[Zarna Garg]

And she's been selling thousands and thousands of books. And it's so hard. It is so hard.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh. She's pre sold thousands and thousands of books.

[Zarna Garg]

Thousands of books.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

She said good for her. But. But she had to learn how to discipline herself and turn it into a business. Like, how do you deliver value to somebody?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Zarna Garg]

Who's gonna pay for this? And she came in with her Stanford swagger. Like, a book. I could do this. And then had her ass handed to her in two weeks. It was like, it is so hard.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure. That's really hard.

[Zarna Garg]

But she learned. But then she learned, and she found one step after another step. And, you know, if she wants to do something creative, like, I listen, she can do a tech job and do that on the weekends. Right. Write an op ed on the weekends.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. No, I see what you're saying. Do you ever feel like you're leaning so hard into what your opinions are on stage that you're like, actually, I don't feel exactly that extreme.

[Zarna Garg]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, you don't. You actually feel mostly similar to your stage opinions.

[Zarna Garg]

Very much. And I don't think I could sell it if I didn't feel it. Like, I don't think I'm a good enough actor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

You know, everything I say on stage comes from a place of, like, having lived through it in some way. You know, as you know, I started comedy not that long ago, so I'm not trained enough to be out there. Like, I think my audience would be, like, shocked if I suddenly showed up as this open minded, all understanding mother.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure.

[Zarna Garg]

This is the mom they like. This is the mom. I am sure. So we're not gonna mess with what's working.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, no, no, you're absolutely right. I remember years ago when we met, you would say, like, you know, you would do shows where you're handing out flyers on the street and you would talk to Indian people who had just never gone to comedy shows before, and then they loved it.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What were those conversations like?

[Zarna Garg]

It's wild. So during COVID I used to do shows in the back of Israel on the Upper west side. And sometimes we would have three people, five people, whatever. Whoever came. I just wanted to keep trying jokes and not lose my skill. And I remember one time a group came and they were like, this was so fun. It was a group of medical students, Indian medical students from Columbia. And they were like, this was so fun. And then they said, more people should do this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

More people should do this. That's great. Yeah, more people should do this.

[Zarna Garg]

And they are medical students. Students at Columbia. We're not talking about, like some elderly couple.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. They're not isolated from culture.

[Zarna Garg]

They're. They're in the mix. And for them, they thought I was doing something so revolutionary.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I know. I do get that a lot from people. When I particularly, I meet, like, the other parents of. At school or whatever for schools. Like, you do comedy, like, what else do you do? Like, none of this is what I do. It is just, you know, I just think it's. It's a mainstream art form. But then also for a lot of people, it's very much a niche art form. They've never gone to a live comedy show.

[Zarna Garg]

Never. And I don't think to any Indian, it would never occur to them. Yeah, never. No Indian is sitting there thinking, what should I go and do for fun? We don't do fun.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally.

[Zarna Garg]

We're like, is there an SAT prep class on a Saturday night? Let's do that. I'm a grown man, but I'll take it again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you enjoy most about doing comedy now that people come to see you?

[Zarna Garg]

I mean, of course I enjoy making people laugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I really do feel, and I'm sure you feel this from the moment I begin the set to the moment I end. I feel like I can. I can hear the blood pressure drop. I love that people came in all frazzled and stressed out about whatever it is that's going on in their lives. And then in the time that we spend together, they managed to just forget for Those few minutes, sure. But what's given me a sense of purpose about my role in this comedy world has been like. So I do a lot of. I used to do a lot of wedding events. A few years ago, just to make a little side money, I would get invited to do like, you know, a 20 minute set at somebody's wedding or reception or whatever. Indian weddings. It's how it started in Indigo Weddings. And I would go and do them. And at the end of the set, people would often line up to take selfies or talk to me. And one time I had an elderly couple come by and the elderly gentleman held my hand and he said, you know, for 50 years in America, we've laughed at jokes. We didn't understand that. Thank you. Thank you for joking about things that we care about and thank you for telling stories that we understand in a dialect, in a voice that they find familiar to them. And it really has given me a sense of purpose that whatever forces of destiny brought me into this world, it was a bigger purpose than just me telling jokes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

And I see it now. Like Indian people who would have never in their lives considered comedy as an activity.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

Not only come out, they come out again and again and bring more people out with them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

And then they look for other comics that they can go to. I mean, I have brought so many friends to your shows.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Aww.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because I. Oh, I remember that when I was at Lincoln center, you brought like 20 people.

[Zarna Garg]

Well, we travel in groups. That's just the word Indian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nobody said that.

[Zarna Garg]

We really do. We're like a traveling circus. We go everywhere with 20 people. But I remember going to my friends and saying, if you like my comedy, you're gonna love him. Because I know the kind of comedy they like. They like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They have such good energy.

[Zarna Garg]

That thoughtful, you know, the thoughtful, clean joke telling. And I take them to a lot of shows. I take all my favorite comics that I like. Even when I'm not there, I'm reposting on my social media constantly. Cause I am fixated on delivering value to my audience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I don't really care if they never post for me, if they never like. It's not about any reciprocity I expect from any other comic or any other artist. If I think my audience will get value from this, I will go all out to support it because I'm delivering value to them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's great.

[Zarna Garg]

I just think that there's enough to go around. And I think we're building the. We're expanding the pie Together, the way I see it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. He wrote about the importance of taking risks and betting on yourself. At the head of one of the chapters, there's a quote which is, if life is a gamble, gamble on yourself. What is your advice for people who are afraid to bet on themselves?

[Zarna Garg]

My advice is that it's a bigger bet. It's a bigger risk to bet on somebody else's advice. Only you know you. No one else knows you. Like, there's no point. You know, you meet people, they're like, I'm gonna ask my friends what they think of this idea. They have no clue.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

Nobody knows what they're doing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

Like from the president on down, nobody knows what they're doing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yes.

[Zarna Garg]

You know what I mean? Everybody's kind of taking random bets to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Be a lot of people winging it.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah, everybody.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Everybody's winging it.

[Zarna Garg]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I right now believe that even half the doctors I see are going in the other room to chatgpt what they should say to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I think you're not wrong.

[Zarna Garg]

So what is the point in betting on somebody else's opinion? It's equally a random possibility of succeeding or failing, the way I see it. But you know what you're capable of.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right. There's a quote at the front of another one of your chapters that said accepting charity is a special skill. That really hit me. Can you make a case for that idea?

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah. So I came to America under very complex circumstances. And for years, not days, not weeks, not months, for years, my siblings had to pay for me to just survive. For my food, for my clothes. I lived in my sister's home for years. They had to buy me a car so I could get around. They had to pay for the gas. My education is all funded by my sister and then my brother who sent money from India, but large part my sister and her husband. When you're accepting charity at that level, it's like it does something to your self esteem, you know, because we're all, we're all proud, we're all, we all have our own pride. Right. But in my case, I just had to accept it. There was no other way. There was no place for me to go. And I had to learn how to accept the charity with grace. And just so it's clear to all your listeners and viewers, they never acted like they were being charitable. I've been blessed by incredible siblings who even get upset when I talk about this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Aww.

[Zarna Garg]

They don't like it when I talk about it at all they're like, we're all siblings. We all did it with, you know, life worked out how it did. And we're so happy for you now. They were still very close, as we were our whole lives, but I knew what I was doing. And I know now, as somebody who has three kids, how hard it would be to add a whole another human being in my heart.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure. Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

For years. So you have to learn to make your peace with why you're doing, what you're doing, why you're in this place, how to be accepting. But still, also, still also productive.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

You can't let that grief consume you. Cause you still have to be a productive person and go out there into the world and do stuff. So now I do a lot of charity shows as a guest, and I know that in that room, often I'm the only person who has been a recipient of big charity.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

And it changes how I view everything that's happening in that room because I understand the people that they're helping in a way that many of the people in that room will never understand.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

It feels good to give. It's very difficult to take.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is called the slow round. What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you?

[Zarna Garg]

I think it's the same thing that I'm very opinionated. Some people love me for it. And then there is a whole stream of haters out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Are there really haters, though? Or is it just kind of faceless, nameless, Kind of like trolls on the Internet?

[Zarna Garg]

That is true. They are faceless and nameless, but their words matter. I mean, you know, you read it and, like, it sits in your head, and then you get in your own head and you're like, well, was I too harsh?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, do people ever have it, though, in person at your shows? Like, where your opinions are too harsh?

[Zarna Garg]

Actually, I had a funny experience in Las Vegas. I was doing a show, and one of the jokes I used to. I used to start off with, I'm an immigrant. I'm here to take your jobs. And like, a whole bunch of people got up and said, we don't have jobs.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, no.

[Zarna Garg]

And I remember thinking, oh, my God, like, redirect my whole set. I was like, I can't do that joke. I can't do that joke. What can I do? Thank God. Thank God. I have an unending stream of mother in law trauma.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Zarna Garg]

Like, thank God she keeps me in business.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure. Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

Because it saves me every time when I'm in, like, a slightly stickier situation.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Zarna Garg]

But there, you know, I think the word immigrant is very loaded in America right now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, it is.

[Zarna Garg]

And I see sometimes when I'm on a lineup, like if people haven't bought a ticket to come see me, but I'm just on a general lineup, like at the seller or whatever, I've noticed that there are people who will look at me and be like, really? Yeah. Wow. Not everybody, but there will be people in the audience, like her accent or her clothes, like, why do I have to listen to this? But I do. I see it. And you know, I. I try to not let it take me down because I come from a country that's the most racist country. So I understand it. I am not one to sit here and be like, don't be racist, don't be sexist. I come from a country that's the most of all of that. So I just know that I'm gonna win them over. And in my head I'm like, how am I gonna get them on my side? Like, I start playing games with myself. Cause the whole immigrant thing is not gonna work with them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Zarna Garg]

But. But maybe like the ungrateful kids, right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, totally. Being a parent or marriage stuff. Yeah. Did your mother in law read the book?

[Zarna Garg]

Not yet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is that gonna be a whole deal?

[Zarna Garg]

Probably.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Probably.

[Zarna Garg]

But no one has read it. Not my husband.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No way.

[Zarna Garg]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're kidding me.

[Zarna Garg]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So your husband didn't read this book?

[Zarna Garg]

He's not allowed to?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Zarna Garg]

All my laptops are locked down since then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You are a garg. No, I. You gotta film that.

[Zarna Garg]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, but you film everything. You gotta film that.

[Zarna Garg]

And I've written some stuff. I've written some stuff about him, his job, our life. But I. See, this is the thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the dialogue we just read. He didn't see that. He didn't read that?

[Zarna Garg]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, this is outrageous. Was that like a thing that you said before you agreed to write the book to your family? Like, I'm not gonna run this by you.

[Zarna Garg]

I said, either I'm writing the book or I'm not writing the book.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Zarna Garg]

I'm not writing a sanitized book and gonna lie to my audience that's gonna pay a lot of money for this book and more importantly, a lot of their precious time. So either everybody involved trusts me, that I will do the right thing and I will tell the right story, or we can all, as a family, decide we don't wanna go down this road and we don't do the book at all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Zarna Garg]

Because I really am that anally particular about my audience and my relationship with my audience. I don't want to tell a story that has been run through three rounds of committees.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Good for you.

[Zarna Garg]

It has to feel like I'm speaking to a friend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you ever have a joke that bumped your family members that was about them?

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah. I used to make a joke about how my husband back in the day was a chess champion, which is true. So I know sexy, and now my daughter is a chess champion. So you know Virginia.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God. So who'd you get in trouble with for that one?

[Zarna Garg]

My husband and my daughter. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What are you doing?

[Zarna Garg]

They just heard it in the audience once, and my daughter was like. And of course, I talk about her dating life, and sometimes the people she's dating, their parents, and they are in the audience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

So it like. But my family knows I'm either doing this. I'm either doing this career thing or I'm not sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And also, I would guess if they saw you perform that joke. That joke is so well constructed that it kills. And it's kind of hard to fight with a laugh.

[Zarna Garg]

With a laugh, exactly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If it doesn't get a laugh, that's when I think you get into real sticky territory.

[Zarna Garg]

If it doesn't get a laugh, I'm not keeping it anyway.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're not doing it anyway.

[Zarna Garg]

Why am I doing it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I'm gonna annoy them and annoy the audience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. No, of course.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is there anyone who you're jealous of?

[Zarna Garg]

Oh, so many people. I mean, everybody who has a mother who's alive, I'm jealous of. It's very sad, but it's true. Like, my brain goes there now, especially as a grown woman, as a woman who has kids, Like, I hear people complain about their moms. Like, people my age. And, like, my mind just is, like, you don't even know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's so sweet. What's something that you believed 10 years ago that you don't believe now?

[Zarna Garg]

Ten years ago, I really wanted my kids to be with Indian life partners. And now I've met so many dumb Indians that I've removed that requirement. I met so many really, really intelligent people who are amazing and loving that are not Indian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

And met equally as many dumb Indian people that I'm like, People say crazy things to me. Like, I had to rely on a radio promoter to promote some shows in New Jersey. I was doing a few years, and this very elderly Indian uncle controls the South Asian radio mafia of New Jersey. If that's a thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Zarna Garg]

I Didn't know that was a thing, but that's a thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'll take your word for that.

[Zarna Garg]

Right. People were like, you need to talk to him so you can get on the South Asian shows and, you know, whatever. And I started talking to him and he's like, first of all, you need to change your name.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh.

[Zarna Garg]

Because Garg is not a funny name.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, gosh.

[Zarna Garg]

Nobody named Garg is ever funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, dear.

[Zarna Garg]

And it is also not very glamorous. And I was like, you know what? I'm speaking to radio promoters all over America who don't have a problem with my name.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Zarna Garg]

What are we talking about here?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I got that with Birbigli a lot when it's turning out.

[Zarna Garg]

Is that true?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Same thing. Yeah. But I think. I also think, like, the long. You know, you keep a unique name long enough, eventually people remember it.

[Zarna Garg]

You hope.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, certainly. Yeah. People say your name to me a lot, so it's working.

[Zarna Garg]

Well, they try. I mean, I've been. I kept it. I was like, you know what? I'm not. But it was an example. I remember thinking, you've lived in America. The guy has been running South Asian radio stations for 50 years in New Jersey. But you've just learned nothing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

Your mind has not expanded at all. So that is one thing. Ten years ago I believed. And my kids are going to hear this and make screenshots of this bit that we just said. My mom no longer needs me to be with an Indian woman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that's a good thing to learn. Can you remember a time in your life when you were an inauthentic version of yourself?

[Zarna Garg]

The first few weeks I tried to do comedy. I thought that stand up comics are American, so I should wear American clothes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Zarna Garg]

So I was in a dress, like an American dress, you know, with my arms and my legs showing and all, which I'm not used to. Like, I don't dress like that in real life, but in my mind I was doing this all American activity and I should, like, look that part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

And I remember getting. Even though the jokes were fine and they were working. Ish, I remember getting on the stage and being looking at myself and what am I doing? Yeah, Like. And clearly the audience was not connecting with me the way that they should. And that was an epiphany for me. I was like, that's just not who I am.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I had a similar thing the first time I auditioned at the Comedy Cellar. For whatever reason, I like, dressed up in, like, dress, dress shoes and Like a suit. And it's like I just didn't.

[Zarna Garg]

Well, it was the seller.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I didn't read the room. I was just like, I didn't realize that. Yeah. And also it's the salary and you think like, oh, it's a big deal. But then you're like, oh, no, it's like a laid back place and it's.

[Zarna Garg]

Not who I am, but it comes with time. I understand that. Because the seller is the seller and before you get in, it's this big thing that you have to put. When I was new at the Cellar, I used to carry high heels in a bag. I was like, I gotta look good when I get on stage. And I was switching and I was doing all kinds of crazy things. And with time we all relaxed and it was like, no, no, it's not about that anyway.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Zarna Garg]

It's not about all that stuff anyway.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Is there anyone in your life who you should have called more?

[Zarna Garg]

I think my mother in law. Yeah, I owe her that. Aww, I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's sweet.

[Zarna Garg]

I do. Well, you know, I've said some pretty bad things and she's called me and been like, I heard you said that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Does she watch you?

[Zarna Garg]

She watches. And her friends watch all the clips. Like all her bitchy friends, like follow me on social media like hounds. Like if I say they get into my comment section and like, no, no, that's not true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But we look forward to them being underneath this clip, right?

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah, they will be there, trust me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Zarna Garg]

And she the reason I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They dispute what you're saying.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah, they will.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, they dispute it.

[Zarna Garg]

They dispute it or they'll give their version of it, like, oh, no, no, it wasn't exactly like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Zarna Garg]

But I literally will throw any American company club under the bus. I'm like, oh, you know I said that. Cause they were like, if you don't say it, we won't buy your specials.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

I tell them, I'm like, they won't let me keep my job if I don't say all this on the seller stage.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right, right. That's a good alibi.

[Zarna Garg]

And one time my mother in law was visiting the seller and I introduced her to Esti, you know, the booker. And my mother in law was so scared for my job. She thought she was so scared for my job and she's meeting my boss that she kept telling Esti, she's like, she's allowed to say whatever she wants.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh my God. She's allowed to say whatever she support for Working it out comes from Helix. Helix has been a sponsor of Working it out for a long time. Years, actually. And we love Helix. They cater to your every sleeping need. They do mattresses. We love that. Helix does blankets, too. I love the weighted blanket. The weighted blanket, by the way. It's a good gift, I think. I feel like it's one of those things. If you gave it to someone as a gift for birthday or whatever, I don't think they'd see it coming. I think it's one of those things that people go, oh, I always thought I might want a weighted blanket, and I do. I could talk about pillows, mattresses all day, but we got to get back to the podcast. So go to helixsleep.comverbigs for 20% off site wide, plus two free dream pillows with mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.comburbigs for 20% off. That's pretty good. Site wide, plus two free dream pillowers with mattress purchase. Helixsleep.comburbigS I took some cards down from the wall today of just things that I remember enjoying. One is, this is a line. Divorce can be as hard on a family as marriage. Yes, that was true. True, true.

[Zarna Garg]

Might be easier on the mother, though. I mean, I sometimes think, okay, if I was just living my life without my husband, all the crazy things I would do if I didn't have to worry about his feelings.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah. This is something my daughter said to me the other day because I was driving her somewhere and she said, I like dad better than Uber because we don't have to wait for dad. Isn't that amazing?

[Zarna Garg]

That's the beginnings of a joke, right? No, but she could be saying up there, she'll kill with that. That's hilarious. And true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We don't have to wait for dad. Well, if you say more stuff like that, you're gonna have to wait for dad. This is when the other day I had a sexual dream, and then I ran into the person that day who was in the dream. And in my mind I was like, I had sex with you in my dream. But then what I actually said is, nice to see you. And now I'm suspicious of people when they say, nice to see you.

[Zarna Garg]

And is that. That's true for you? You're right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

True story. True story. Wow.

[Zarna Garg]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Or like, I ran into the. Yeah, I forget where.

[Zarna Garg]

Did you say when I walked in?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, exactly. Nice to see you. That might have been it. Do you have anything you're working on that's like, new Premises. Bits that are unfinished right now. Yes.

[Zarna Garg]

The competitive Indian moms.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Zarna Garg]

When two competitive Indian moms meet each other, how does it go?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay.

[Zarna Garg]

And it's inspired by a real life moment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Zarna Garg]

Where I ran into my friend Aditi at the airport.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

And her son had just graduated Harvard Medical School. So of course she opened with that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That was her opener.

[Zarna Garg]

That makes sense. I get it. She's proud. And then I was like, oh, that's Congratulations, right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Zarna Garg]

Yes. Congratulations. And she's like, well, he also got a PhD. And I said, well, who wouldn't? It feels like the kind of thing you just throw in there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's the kind of thing you do.

[Zarna Garg]

It's already there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Zarna Garg]

And then she goes, no, no, you don't understand. He graduated top of his class. Number one, actually, above number one. Yeah, but they don't like to say that in America. And I said, yes, I know. America, with all the egalitarianism and stuff. And then she goes, how's your daughter doing? I said, you know, she's fine. She's like, your daughter's cute. She'll find a man.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh.

[Zarna Garg]

This is true. And I was like, oh, she's okay. You know, she's not so bad. And I said, she's about to graduate Stanford. And she goes, yeah, Stanford's gone down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Zarna Garg]

This was all true. And now I can't get it out of my head.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Zarna Garg]

It's like building a whole set around the competitive moms meeting each other.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh.

[Zarna Garg]

And in the middle of this meeting, our friend Melissa, who's All American, joined in. And she's like, you know, I'm so excited. My son just got a B in math. He got an 85. And Aditi really looked at her and said, I didn't know grades went down that low.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Zarna Garg]

With that moment. And the thing is that this woman was so clueless and oblivious of how she was coming off in this world that I was like, God is throwing this premise at me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's a great one. You know, so when something like that happens, you just go home and just write that all down.

[Zarna Garg]

Write it down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zarna Garg]

I rarely write everything down, but that day I was like, write it all down. Like, I wish I had a recorder. I wish I had gotten. Because even the way she was pausing and going like. And she ended with. She's like, you know, and if you. If you're looking for some. If you want to introduce Zoya to some boys, I said, no, no, she's fine. She goes, well, no, I'm not asking for my son. Cause my son is dating Ms. New Jersey. Okay, all right. I didn't ask for your son.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Miss New Jersey.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah, she's Miss New Jersey. Miss India New Jersey, actually. That's a thing. Yeah, Miss India New Jersey is a thing. And I said, no, no, she's fine. She goes, no, but you know, my son Sid, he knows a lot of the radiation doctors. Like, they're like, dying to meet girls. Cause they never leave the room. And she would be happy to introduce them to your daughter. I couldn't. My brain was working overtime to preserve every word that was coming out of her mouth.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So when you are in a conversation like that, so the first thing you do is you go home and you write it down, or you take out.

[Zarna Garg]

A notebook and write dictator immediately.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I voice note a lot of.

[Zarna Garg]

Times to myself, because I'm gonna forget other people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So then the next thing you do, like, what's your approach? Or is your approach to write out punchline ideas for that? Or do you go on stage and just tell the story and see what happens?

[Zarna Garg]

No, I write it out and I think, now what can I do to embellish it a little bit? What would I do? I put myself in her shoes and be like, what are some other things I would say if my son was graduating Howard Medical school with an MD, PhD, sure. And I come up with, like, crazy things. Like, you know, I mean, I added. I remember one line I added to this because I've been testing this material in clubs right now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's great.

[Zarna Garg]

And I was like. I remember. I added, he got such high grades that Einstein came out of his grave and said, wow, that's great. I was just taking it to every extreme that I could. So I'll write down every extreme version of it that I can. And then I'll go to an open mic or to a new joke night somewhere and test it. Not the seller. I still don't have the courage to do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Zarna Garg]

Cause I feel like they're watching you there always.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, everyone's watching. Everyone's watching.

[Zarna Garg]

But I'll go to, like a small show somewhere and test drive it. But when I sit with it, I will come up with the most extreme versions of.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so funny. Cause that's a good example. That story of the actual events of what happened are so extreme that it's like, how do you even heighten it?

[Zarna Garg]

Oh, you could, though.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like the Einstein thing is a good heightening, but it's like. But man, it's like she's practically saying that.

[Zarna Garg]

Yeah, I want to build. The challenge has been building around her innocence of all of it. So she doesn't think she's doing anything crazy?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, definitely not.

[Zarna Garg]

That's the craziest part of it, though.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Her unit, probably her universe, is. That's what you should do. You should come in with hard brags and see how it goes. And if someone brags harder, she should brag harder. I don't know her.

[Zarna Garg]

There is a WhatsApp group in America that is parents of Ivy League doctors.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is that real?

[Zarna Garg]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Are you serious?

[Zarna Garg]

Yes. And some poor parent of a kid who goes to a medical school at Tufts or something got in and they all came down on this woman. They're like, you're not Ivy League.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Zarna Garg]

You need to get out of this group chat. Who let her into this group chat? Who verified this? This is a real thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is crazy.

[Zarna Garg]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Zarna Garg]

That's my people, Mike. I don't need to write the jokes. The jokes are writing themselves.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. So meanwhile, the way you present yourself is like, you are kind of like a hyper extreme, kind of competitive mom, but actually, compared to that woman, you're nothing.

[Zarna Garg]

I told you. I'm the dumbest person I know. In my family.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The final thing we do is working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to? And we will contribute to them and link to them in the show notes.

[Zarna Garg]

Yes. Unicorn Island. That is run by Lilly Singh, the very popular YouTuber.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Zarna Garg]

And she is doing really pathbreaking, revolutionary work in the space of women's equality and women's ability to just speak and work in India and in other places and collaborating with other charities in America. I know her well, I know her personally, and I'm all in on supporting her. So I would love to support Unicorn.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I. That's amazing. We will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes. Zarna, I couldn't be happier for all of your success. Your book is gonna be a smash hit. I couldn't recommend it more highly. I think people are just gonna love it.

[Zarna Garg]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate that you're giving me and my big fat mouth this platform. I really do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Workin it out. Cause it's not done. We're working it out. Cause there's no. That's gonna do it. For another episode of Working it Out, you can follow Zarnagarg on Instagram Arnagarg. You can get her book, which is called this American Woman at your local bookstore. I couldn't recommend it more highly. It is hilarious and it's just a great read. Very personal. You can see her on screen in A Nice Indian Boy in theaters now. You can watch the full video of this episode on my YouTube channel @Mike Birbiglia. You can subscribe and get more videos served to you there. Go to burbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list. To be the first to know about my upcoming shows and our producers of Working it out are myself along with Peter Salomone, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis Associate producer Gary Simons Sound mix by Ben Cruz supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein and our daughter Una, who built the original radio for Made of Pillows for that sweet, sweet podcast sound. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, go over to Apple Podcasts and rate us and review us. Give us some stars. If you're new to the podcast and you enjoyed this episode, you can listen to 160 different episodes that we've done. They're all free. There's no paywall. We've had Ben Stiller and Adam Scott and Jimmy Fallon and so many great people. You can check out our back catalog. All free. And then whichever is your favorite episode, write in the comments on Apple Podcasts. Which one is your favorite? It helps us out a lot. As we always say, tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your mother in law. Say listen mom. Or whatever you call your mother in law. I know we've had our differences. I know your friends may not like what I do on stage. But here's one thing I think we can bond over. It's a podcast called Working it out where a comedian talks to other comedians about their comedic process. You may not think I'm good enough for your son or your daughter, but I know that this podcast is good enough for both. Both of us. Thanks everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.