173. Atsuko Okatsuka Returns: The Dizzy Duo

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out – Episode 173: Atsuko Okatsuka Returns: The Dizzy Duo

Release Date: June 16, 2025

In Episode 173 of Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out, comedian Mike Birbiglia welcomes Atsuko Okatsuka for her fourth appearance on the podcast. The episode delves deep into their friendship, Atsuko's latest comedy special, and the intricate process of crafting humorous yet personal material.

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1. Reaffirming Friendship and Collaboration

Mike begins by highlighting his longstanding friendship with Atsuko, mentioning their tours together and mutual respect for each other's comedic talents. He reflects on their bond as "new adult friends" who navigate the challenges of making and maintaining friendships in adulthood.

Mike Birbiglia [00:21]: "This is Atsuko's fourth, count it, fourth time on the podcast. One of my favorite comics."

2. Atsuko’s Comedy Special: "Father"

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Atsuko's new special, "Father," which is available on Hulu and Disney Plus. Mike praises the special, emphasizing its depth and Atsuko's growth as a performer.

Mike Birbiglia [03:08]: "What got you there? ... you have something to talk about, but you come out, you're dancing, you're high energy, but also personal..."

Atsuko shares insights into the development of her special, noting how extensive touring and audience feedback refined her material. She candidly discusses the challenges of experimenting with personal and uncomfortable topics on stage.

Atsuko Okatsuka [03:25]: "This show I toured for two years internationally... believe me, it got worse too."

3. Exploring Family Dynamics through Comedy

A pivotal moment in the special is Atsuko's story about being kidnapped by her grandmother in Japan during childhood. Mike is intrigued by how such a specific and personal narrative resonates humorously with audiences.

Mike Birbiglia [04:20]: "My question is, like, what are they relating to, in your opinion?"

Atsuko speculates that the universal theme might be the absurdity of familial relationships and the humorous side of being let down by those who are supposed to guide and protect us.

Atsuko Okatsuka [04:49]: "Who should know better than we do? Who are our guidance?"

4. The Relatability of Specificity in Humor

Despite the uniqueness of her kidnapping story, Atsuko observes that audiences find it relatable, possibly because it touches on the broader human experience of flawed family relationships.

Atsuko Okatsuka [05:49]: "In Japan is to be a salaryman... That would be fashion."

This segment underscores the idea that even the most personal stories can tap into common emotions and experiences, making them universally funny.

5. Collaborating on Comedy Material

The duo engages in a dynamic exchange about refining their comedic bits. Mike shares a dark joke about his father’s stroke, while Atsuko provides constructive feedback, suggesting ways to enhance its relatability and humor.

Atsuko Okatsuka [39:30]: "You know, it's like you're trying to find the balance..."

Their collaboration exemplifies the "working it out" essence of the podcast, where comedians refine their material through honest and supportive dialogue.

6. Personal Anecdotes and Codependency

Atsuko opens up about her relationship with her partner, Ryan, addressing themes of codependency and mutual support in creative endeavors. They humorously discuss how their personal lives intertwine with their comedic personas.

Mike Birbiglia [24:28]: "I need to read a book called Codependent No More."

This conversation highlights the blending of personal dynamics with professional growth, illustrating how comedians often draw from their lives to fuel their humor.

7. Developing New Comedy Bits

The episode features brainstorming sessions where Mike and Atsuko develop new jokes and bits. They explore concepts like "light joy vs. dark joy," discussing how to balance humor with deeper emotional undercurrents.

Mike Birbiglia [51:19]: "It's almost like when you were grown up, at a certain point, it's like you end up in like, like PG joy versus, like X rated joy."

Atsuko contributes creative ideas, enhancing Mike's comedic structures and offering fresh perspectives on his material.

8. Supporting Causes and Community Engagement

Towards the end of the episode, Mike and Atsuko highlight their commitment to supporting the Trevor Project, an organization dedicated to assisting LGBTQ youth. This segment reinforces their dedication to using comedy as a platform for positive societal impact.

Mike Birbiglia [53:32]: "Today, Acorns Early is issued by Community Federal Savings bank member FDIC..."

9. Conclusion: The Dizzy Duo’s Dynamic

The episode wraps up with mutual appreciation between Mike and Atsuko, celebrating their unique comedic partnership and the ongoing process of "working it out" together. They reiterate their status as the "dizzy duo," blending humor with heartfelt conversations.

Atsuko Okatsuka [54:26]: "We're a dizzy royal. Working it out because it's not done."

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Notable Quotes:

• Mike Birbiglia [00:09]: "I'm about to record this conversation with you is a real worrisome phrase."

• Atsuko Okatsuka [04:49]: "In Japan is to be a salaryman. We all wear uniform suits."

• Mike Birbiglia [11:26]: "This is just a beautiful purple, pink, white pattern."

• Atsuko Okatsuka [22:21]: "We have never talked about that."

• Mike Birbiglia [40:17]: "Your life is that your life gets worse."

• Atsuko Okatsuka [49:44]: "Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally."

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Final Thoughts:

Episode 173 of Working It Out offers a rich and engaging exploration of Atsuko Okatsuka's comedic journey, her personal narratives, and the collaborative spirit that defines her friendship with Mike Birbiglia. Their candid discussions provide valuable insights into the creative process, the power of relatable humor, and the importance of supportive relationships in the world of comedy.

For those who haven’t listened yet, this episode is a testament to the art of turning personal stories into universally funny and meaningful comedy.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you ask your grandma if she kidnapped you? How'd you bring it up? Did you go like, I have something to talk about with you?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And I said, I'm about to record this conversation too. Is that okay? Yeah. So there was that. It was kind of a trap.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is the voice of the great Atsuko Akatsuka. This is Atsuko's fourth, count it, fourth time on the podcast. One of my favorite comics. We've toured together. We've hung out a lot. We talk about comedy together a lot as friends. We are new adult friends. We talked today about how hard it is to make friends as an adult. She talks about that topic in her new special. Like so many people. I started following Atsuko on Instagram and then she opened for me at the Chicago theater. We've been friends ever since. Her new special is called Father. It is fantastic. It's on Hulu and Disney plus now. I highly recommend watching her special. Thank you so much for watching my special the Good Life. It's on Netflix now. I'm super proud of it. This week we're actually doing a really exciting event at the 92nd Street Y here in New York. I'm screening the special and then doing a Q and A hosted by my good friend Hasan Minhaj. That's this Wednesday, June 18th. You can get tickets for that at 92y December.org we'll put a link for that in the show. Notes this summer I have five shows coming up with Nick Kroll and Fred Armeson, all in support of John Mulaney's new hour of comedy. The four of us will be in New Haven, Connecticut in August Bethel, New York in Portland, Maine and then in Halifax. I've never, never been to Halifax. Very excited with the Garrison Grounds in Halifax. And then September 13th we will be in Vancouver. Tickets.com and check out the Good Life on Netflix now. I love this chat with Atsuko Wakatsuka. She has been on fire lately. I mean, we talk about her special father. We talk about this incredible story of her being kidnapped by her own grandmother as a child and how she recently talked about this with her grandmother and told that story on this American Life to Ira Glass. She just has a fascinating life. She's a fascinating and hilarious, funny in her bones type of person. I think you're going to love this one. It's my favorite of the Atsuko episodes. Enjoy my conversation with the great Atsuko Akatsuka. Your special is beautiful.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Thank you. Thank you for watching.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so Good. Well, I've saw like three iterations of it, so I knew the material pretty well. But it got better and better and better, which sometimes doesn't happen. Sometimes it's like better and better and a little worse.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, for sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But you're like. I feel like you're super loose. You come out, you're dancing, you're. You're high energy, but also personal, but also physical, but also your voices. Like, I feel like it's your most breakout of film performances, even more so than the first one. I love the first one.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I feel that way too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What got. What got you there?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Well, I toured it way more than the first one. I didn't really have, like a touring audience, I think, for the first one, so I didn't super tour. What I'm saying is, you know, this show I toured for two years internationally. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

So it's the most worked through and, like, tried out and trial and error.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And that actually, you know, believe it or not, works, Right? And believe me, it got worse too. At one point when you said, oh, sometimes it doesn't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, it got worse. At one point I was in Asia and Australia and it was worse, but I didn't know it. I was like, I'm going to make it joker. Take out more of the personal stuff. So there was. And then when I came back, I watched the tapes and I was like, I made it worse. And so then I went back to a more original version. And that's why. That's what you saw as the final taped version.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Fascinating.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The special, though, like what? Okay, What I find remarkable about it is you tell this story about being kidnapped by your grandmother from Japan when you were a kid, and then like 25 years later, you're kind of unpacking it and asking her about it.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And the audience is dying laughing. And what strikes me is what a specific thing that you did in your life and the audience is dying laughing. And usually laughter is a sign of relating. My question is, like, what are they relating to, in your opinion?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, yeah, I know. I've wondered that because it is so specific. I wonder. Maybe it's just being lied to by your family. We all have been.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. The absurdity of like, I guess, our relationship with our own parents. Yeah, yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Who should know better than we do?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Who are our guidance? Who is there to guide us? But then they mess up real bad, like accidentally kidnap you or something like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, it's funny like that we have the thing in common which Is we both. I told my sleepwalking story on this American Life, and that was like, a big breakout thing. And you told your kidnapping thing on this American Life.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you even have jokes about it in the special of, like, you know, like, you know you're in trouble when you're telling your story on this American Life.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. It's not good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're like, oh, I'm inspirational. I don't want to be inspirational.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Cause then the polar opposite of inspirational is what? Just kind of, you know, being like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

One of the gang.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

One of the gang. Part of society, you know, A suit, maybe.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A suit.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right. A salary man in Japan, that's the ultimate, like, goal for a lot of people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

In Japan is to be a salaryman. We all wear uniform suits. We all walk in rhythm, you know, going to work on the subway, and then we come back. That's kind of. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What if you were a suit and this was the suit. It's like 40 women, like, in your exact outfit right now.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, that would be. That's fashion.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I would love that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Then I'd be into.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because, of course, that's a dance squad.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. That's more of a dance crew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a dream of mine, is to just.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For the only. The listener. People only who aren't on video.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is just a beautiful purple, pink, white pattern.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Top and pants suit. Yeah, that's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Of sorts. Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

This is the kind of. Yeah. If I were to. I guess I've always wanted to stand out a little, so I joke about being an inspiration and things like that. Like, I would rather just live simple and, you know, no one ever sees me, and I just eat chips and be surrounded by ranch dressing. I joke that that's the kind of life I want. But, you know, I think there's definitely an. I'm glad that. That all those things happen and that, you know, we're performers and there's an ego. We have an ego. Right, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For sure.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But it's funny. Like, the whole special, thematically, in a lot of ways is about, like, wanting to have friends and, like, adult friendship being elusive. And in some weird way, it's like the audience of the world is your friend.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right. Yeah, I know. I think about that because when people started showing up to my shows wearing wigs of my bowl cut.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God. They did, Right? Yeah. Wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

So then it's like, is the audience my friend, or have I tried to make them me? Is this a cult? This is how Jonestown started. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

What have I done?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. The Dora thing, like, you call that looking like Dora the Explorer? Is that something you noticed or someone else said to you?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Someone else noticed. I read my comments because it's. Sometimes the audience has, like, tags by accident.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's how I feel about it.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. At some point, someone said, you look like a cross between Matt Damon and Bill O'Reilly. And I'm like, I'll take that. I'll put it in the show.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

How about the Paul Rudd thing?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. You're looking at, like, an ugly Paul Rudd. I'll take that. Thank you very much.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, exactly. I'll use it as my superpower.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

As fuel. I'll run with this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because when you make that joke in the special, the thing I'm thinking when I'm watching is, like, there's no way Atsuko looked in the mirror and was like, I look like Dora the Explorer.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

No, I wish. This is why it's important to ask other people. Right. How they perceive you and things like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, it's funny you should say that. It's like, I always. I try to get my guests who I'm friends with.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

To make fun of me or at least call out a thing that I don't understand about myself, because I crave that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is there anything you think about me that I haven't mined about myself that you think is ridiculous about me?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I don't know. I mean, it's so hard. Cause, you know, I'm not like a. I'm not a roast comedian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I know.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I'm so anti. I've roast. I've done one roast, and it was the roast of Mr. Peanut. That's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I saw that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Literally, that's the only. I was like, yeah, I'll do that. I'm not hurting anyone's feelings. It's a cartoon character.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes. It's a peanut. It's a peanut. It's an animated peanut.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

But then I forgot that they come and roast you, too. The other comedians, I was like, oh, right, this part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What'd they say?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, it's all about the hair. Oh, it is, yeah. Like, oh, speaking of mushrooms, here's Otsuko. You know what I mean? Or like, oh, speaking of penises. It was always like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Who does your hair? I'll make sure to never go to them. Things like that. Oh, my gosh. Cool. But, you know, that's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's roast. That's Roast Fair.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's Roast material. Do you talk about being dizzy at all, or is that something?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just that I look dizzy at all times.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Me and Ryan have been like. Cause we are concerned about you. We love you. So that's why we're like, Mike looks like he's, like, always a little dizzy, but you talk about waddling, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. You're onto something, though.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think you're onto something with this dizzy thing.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

He's always a little dizzy at all times. Are you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, No. I think that's a great point, and I think I should exploit that more. It is. People say in my comments, sometimes he looks drunk.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like on talk shows. And of course, I never drink talk shows or performing or anything like that. I barely drink in life at all. And people are like, he's drunk. Not even. He might be drunk. Like, he's definitely drunk. And I'm at home reading the comments, going, I'm not drunk. I don't know what to say. This is how I talk. This is how I look.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right, right, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I feel like it's not a compliment.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. No. Drunk is. Drunk is lowbrow. It's too easy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You know, it's like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But dizzy's funny.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

There's this game in Japan that we would play as kids where. Oh, no, actually, okay. We. You have this, too. It's, you know, hitting a pinata. You know how with a pinata, you blindfold the kid, then you spin them around so they don't know which direction?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And then you walk. You. You go. Now go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It's kind of what I meant by, like, kind of the way you approach a lot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm going to try the exact thing you said. I'm going to try the bed. Yeah, no, I'm going to try the exact.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know. To say to the audience, you know what I look like? I look like. You know, when you spin a kid around and then you unbindfold him.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I look like. I bet an audience would lock into that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I think so. Yeah. Because you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because the drunk thing, I don't want to say I look drunk.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

No, that's so general, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So general.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it's like. Yeah. I think that the spinning a kid around blindfolded and then you unblindfold him. That's what I look like all the time.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a good. I'm going to try that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yes, yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Finally somebody answers my question on the show.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

He a dizzy boy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm a dizzy Boy, He's a dizzy boy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I'm a dizzy boy, and so many people are dizzy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But that's.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

But that's relatable, right? You know what you are? You're relatable. Also, not a compliment, right? Like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I know. I get that all the time. You're relatable. I'm like, all right, get out of here.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You're so accessible.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, you're so accessible.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You know, it's not like, you know. Yeah, we feel like we are you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. It's like it's never. You're remarkable. You're extraordinary. It's like you're exactly like the most boring person.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I get told I'm relatable, too. So there's that. You know, I think you're extraordinary, but in that, like, you know, I am accessible in that you will find me stuck on a ride at Disneyland, or. You know what I mean? Which is how some people found me the other day, actually.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. I got ride broke down while I was on it. Wow. It's used to be Splash Mountain. It's called Tiana's. Tiana's Bayou.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Now, and it's a log ride. You boom. Splash. It was the big drop at the end. So you're. Boom. You're drenched, wet, and that's when the ride stopped.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

But you're outdoors by then, and so you're out in public.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're just on this as a grown up.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm kind of a Disney adult. But you know this, right? I'm Dora.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I know, I know. Yeah, you are Dora. The funny thing is, I thought when I'm watching your specials, you go, you talk about how elusive adult friendship is. We are adult friends. I know you and I are adult friends. We met as grown ups.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

We did, we did. Yeah. And we didn't even have a common enemy, did we know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You talk about how friendship needs a common enemy. Sometimes it's the boss, it's the man.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Sometimes it's a long line. It doesn't have to be a long line. You know, we had what was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What was ours. Well, why did we bond as friends, as adults?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Life. Comedy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Comedy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Life is hard. Stand. I mean, comedians know, right? Like the. Right. Being a comedian and the things that go, you know, it requires. Yeah, that could be a common enemy. A little bit. That we bond over.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I think so.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

We know the road is hard. We know these things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I think that's true. We just clicked right away. We did a show at the Chicago Theater, like four years ago. I think.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, I know. That's a wild way to start.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a wild way to start a friendship.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Hey.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because we were like, I did this podcast remotely.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I was like, hey, you should open for me in Chicago.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, my God. And the first time meeting you is like, right before Chicago theater is wild. Because then you're like, okay, show starting. What? And I go out there in front of 3,500 people. Hey, Mike's people, are you ready for dizzy boy? Here he is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The headliner's here, and he's dizzy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Can you imagine? You're like, oh, okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That would be hilarious. You just fully roast me the moment we meet.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

People change. No, people change from, you know, and then to, you know. Because their online Persona and in person posts can be so different.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Sometimes you're surprised, shocked. You go, well, I'd be. I thought I'd befriended the online you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, totally.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I could. Yeah. I could be wicked and mean, shouting at people, Dizzy in person.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, yeah, I know. And I go, wow, this. Yeah. The dizzy part is the only part that actually is true. You know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you think now that you've analyzed the dizzy parts? The only part that's true.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, it was. Yeah. Coming through. Online and in person, you talk about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, being codependent with Ryan, and do you feel like you have any detanglement strategies for being codependent or are you just comfortable in being codependent?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

We have never talked about that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, we've never talked about that. We are not as mature as, like, you and Jen. You and Jen, like, sometimes you. You talk about each other and your relationship on stage, and I'm like, wow, they are a duo that really know each other and know themselves.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a nice take.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It is to know that, like, you know, your love language is, like, keeping score, things like that. I'm like, I don't know if I would have the ability to know that about me and Ryan.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, it's funny though. The. One of the relatable things in your special is about the delegation of work having to do with, like, washing clothes. The washer and dryer.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you realizing after all these years by going to the washer, like, oh, I've never used these buttons.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, you weren't doing the laundry.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I wasn't. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So when you realize that, were you immediately, like, this is a bit.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

No, no. Ryan is the one that was like, that could be a bit. To be honest, I felt bad at first because he was shocked he was like, wait, hold on. When I asked him how to turn it on, because I was like, which thing. Which setting would be good? It was more like that. It says power. It says power. I know how to turn it on. But I was like, which setting, like, would be good for, like, you know, all underwear.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Should it be cold or hot? And he was like, what? That's when he realized. He was like, wait, hold on. Wait. Have you not done that before? And I was like, that's so interesting. I was like, I don't. Oh, my God. I don't think I have. Like, it was this. But it was devastating. It wasn't like, ha ha ha.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

We had a fight. It was a fight. Cause it was like, wait, what's the. What am I. What am I? Just like Cinderella. What's going on?

[Mike Birbiglia]

He was saying that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And I was like, well, you know, y. I help fold the clothes. And he's like, yeah, maybe that's why you thought you'd been doing it too. And I was like, why didn't you notice? You know, I was gaslighting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why didn't you notice?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Why didn't you know? You should notice. I'm the one physically doing it. He thought sometimes, you know, when it would be done, you forget. You go, oh, maybe she did this load. Cause, you know, sometimes it takes days for us to fold clothes, too. So you forget.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But it's hard. Do you feel like. Well, Ryan directed the special, so clearly he has a hand in what ends up being it in the final cut. If he didn't like the laundry bed.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Sure. Nop. Just like. Just like his vasectomy. Snip, snip. That's right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You could do a vasectomy on your special if you wanted to.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, live.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Live. Yeah. But did he ever push back on your version of the events with that bit?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

He didn't because it's a bit that makes me look bad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You look ridiculous.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

So he was like, fin. He's like, yeah, it makes me look good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You basically realize in real time that you have forgotten to do your laundry for, like, 10 years.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, I'm gonna lose followers with this special. Everyone's people are Team Ryan after this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, yeah. People go, oh. People ask him, like, hey, do you ever feel bad that, like, she talks so much about you? And he's like, no, she makes me look like an angel in this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, right? No, I think he comes off well.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I'm dizzy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you come off dizzy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I'm dizzy. I'm dizzy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In this, you and me are dizzy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I know. We're just like, what? Who? Laundry?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you ever run the bits by your mother, your grandmother and your father? Because there's so much stuff about them.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, I tell them. I tell them that I talk about them, but I don't know the language. Like Mandarin or Japanese enough to be able to do the joke. Exactly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. So I'm like, this is what the joke is about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And I remember like you did take me and remember.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Remember you kidnapped me.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And I asked you. And anyway, it's on radio. You know that because the fact checking this American life fact checks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Everything. So they talked to my dad and grandma and mom. Anyway, so they all know. And so what didn't make it in is my. Because my mom had told me that my dad and her had like a lustful relationship.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

She was like. Our marriage was mostly sex.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

He would take me. We would go to the sexy movie theaters.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For real?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, that's what she told me. Yeah. Go to the movie theater. The adult theaters. Oh, oh, okay. That's what she means.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like porn.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yes. Porn theaters. Yeah. That's sexy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And this is Japan.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yes. Yeah. Wow. And then they would like not hook up there, but get all like all horned up and then go, go home and. And try to have me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. So that's what she told me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She thought that that was the basis of their relationship. And then they fact checked that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yes. And yeah. And then they talked to my dad and my dad was like, it was more than sex.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And you know, and then he, he was like, I don't really want that movie theater stuff in there. I mean, here I am talking about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

But yeah. So that didn't make it in.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Have your. Has your family watched the special? Because they could watch it with subtitles.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

They could. Yeah, my dad will once it's out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Because he can watch it in Japan with. I'll give him my password or something to Disney. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because it'll be on probably. Yeah. Disney there is international, I think.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And. Oh, actually he's seen it when I was in Japan touring it. He's seen it five times, actually.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you feel like connecting, reconnecting with your dad in this adult stage in your life has changed the way you view the world or have you learned anything from it?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, yes, I have that. I. When you're missing something in life, you tend to fill. Fill that hole with like your thoughts and versions of what that person is like, how they feel, things like that. Like, oh, they must be so sad and miss me so much. Sometimes they're not. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You go, oh, he must have, you know, been thinking about me every day. Maybe not. You know, he's such a good guy. You know, my grandma's the villain or whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And then it's like he was like, no, I. I also, like, you know, understood that you would probably be better off with her, so. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you ask your grandma if she kidnapped you? How'd you bring it up? Did you go, like, I have something to talk about you. With you?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And I said, I'm about to record this conversation, too. Is that okay? Yeah, so there was that. It was kind of a trap.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm about to record this conversation with you is a real worrisome phrase.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

No, I know, I know, because I was like, well, you know, I kind of want to find out, you know, something I've been wondering. And. And I made.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you hold up the recorder?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I said, yes. There's this. Do you know npr?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I was like, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I may be public radio doing a project with them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The funding is under fire, so we need something real hooky.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yes. And, you know, they don't. We want more immigrant stories on air.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You know, I really got to all the things she cares about, and then she was like, okay, fine. Yes. I took you without permission. Yes. What is that? And I said, I think maybe it's a kidnapping. Right. And she's like, no, no, no. That's when she said the ransom thing. No, no, no. Because in kidnapping, people always ask for a ransom. Oh. There's always money, right. I didn't ask her. I didn't tell your dad he needs to pay me a ransom.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. That checks out.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. There's no ransom because your family members do. People ask family members for, you know, how much money he makes?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It's. Obviously, you're not gonna ask for a ransom, right? What, you need a white van and everything for it to be an actual kidnapping?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. It doesn't pass the white van test, so they don't think of it that way.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

No, totally. Yeah. She's like, we're friends. We're, like, close. I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have a whole run about nighttime friends versus daytime friends, right?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which I think is a great bit. And then I was like, wait, am I a nighttime friend or a daytime friend?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You're a nighttime friend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, Great.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's such a rel.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

If you think about it. We rarely see each other during the day. This is during the day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Because you do your podcast during the day. But you know when we were even. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Would I ever meet your daytime friends? Can you introduce me to your daytime friends?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I don't really have daytime friends.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I'm rarely out during the day. I'm so. I never see the sun. I just found out, actually, through my makeup artist. Ryan has a darker shade than me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Like. Cause we used to share foundation color and more pale.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You need to read a book called Codependent no more.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I know. I was like, we're becoming. This is my dream. We're becoming one person. Yeah. That's when it was like, even Ryan's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Codependent with me at one point. He gave me makeup when we were on tour. He was like, here, use this. This'll tamp down the reds.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

We were always trying to recruit you to be part of our codependency. We were always like, how can make him part of.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think there was a throuple in. In the. In the. In the making. If we had gone on tour long enough.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We had done five, 10 years together.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

@ least.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It was like non sexual thruffle, but just like a little mini commune.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, totally, totally. Where they're like, I mean, that's at least two brothers sharing a wife. Right. Or something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I do look a little bit like Ryan. That's true.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You know, I'm sure people have wondered.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So this is called the slow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Now we get slow.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is called the slowdown. We're going to slow it down. Did your life go how you expected it to go?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

No, no, I didn't expect much.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I didn't. The key to the key is not expecting at all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

True.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I didn't really dream past 17.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Not like I had planned to die.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right, right. But like, yeah, the scrawl, so to speak, on your life. You imagined. It gets Hazier around 17. And what did you think would happen when you were 17?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I dreamed so, you know, back to the whole, like, oh, knowing since I was three I was gonna be a comedian or whatever. I didn't dare to dream big, you know, so my biggest dream as a kid was to work at an ice cream parlor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Y.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And then at age 17, I did. So that's what I mean. I said, well, what now?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What else? What more could I want?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I peaked. This is the dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I peaked.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

This is the dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Ice cream stand, $7 an hour. I got to dream bigger. Yeah, but that's scary, to dream bigger.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then at that point, did you. When you were at the ice cream stand, did you reevaluate and go, I got to dream bigger?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I did, but. Because you know how I got that ice cream job was I finally got a green card. So then, Right. I had lim, so why would I think I could become a comedian? Right, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You didn't have a green card.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Also, at that time, you know, they really made you feel like there's only, like, 20 comedians in the world.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right. Like, that's all who's allowed to have specials. And of course, that's who you'll see on David Letterman. You know what I mean? Like, it's not like there's thousands now. Yeah, but there's been thousands.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, but even now, I don't think that you, like, a young version of you would go, oh, I could do that. I feel like it's like, it was probably incremental, right?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. I go, whoa, Margaret Cho already exists. They're not gonna do another one. Why would they?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right. No, that's.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, that's how they made you feel.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And also, like, you, like, you were, like, living for a period of time in your, like, uncle's garage, Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I didn't have a Social Security number. I couldn't even drive, get a driver's license. So I was like, yeah. I mean, you know, let's say I get a green card, hopefully, then go get my first job, and hopefully it's at an ice cream parlor. I did make that happen. So then I was like, oh, God, now I dream bigger. Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you remember the second dream? After ice cream parlor. I'm asking you for real. I'm asking you for real.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

After ice cream parlor, were you like, hey, don't laugh.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That was my big dream, and I. I achieved that, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm gonna take you out for ice cream after this.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It's very attainable, but I. I achieved it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Some people don't even att.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Are. Are you kidding me? I'm not scoffing at ice cream. Ice cream is a serious thing.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. I mean, you know, they could have been full. They said, we're not hiring right now, but they hired me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you remember after that?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I think it was, like, very basic. I just wanted to be a normal teenager. I said, I want a boyfriend. I went and got that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nice.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I got a boyfriend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Take it off. Went to the movie theater.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Move out and count It. I moved out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Moved out.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's a garage.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And moved in with that boyfriend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's cool. Wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And then I think that's about it. And then, you know, I was like, well, I got into college, so I'll start going. And then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then you. I remember you taught film at a college.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That was not a dream at all. That was not something I was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a cool job.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It was fun. Yeah. I was like, oh, weird. I mean, this is like what very few percentage of the world does this. Maybe. Yeah, yeah. Right. So that was cool. But, yeah, I didn't be.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then do you remember an inflection point where you're like, I could be a comedian. It's such a unlikely profession.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I know. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You remember the moment or the period.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Of time that I could be a comedian? Yeah. It was like when I was like 20, 21. Yeah. After I broke up with that boyfriend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And so it's like, oh, that was a big failure. And then I had dropped out of the college.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

So I was like, oh, another failure. You know what? I. Yeah. So I was like, well, I might as well do the thing I've always wanted to try. I have nothing else to lose. So that's when I tried it, but it wasn't like, yeah, here I go.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What were the first couple.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Comedy Central. Here come.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What were the first couple of times like, doing comedy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Well, so I didn't go do open mics. I signed up for a class on, On Craig List.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. So that was a nice supportive environment. I needed that much support.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Was it a comedian who ran it?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Lisa Sunstead. It was an all female stand up comedy class.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

So it was like a nurturing environment instead of going to a mic. If I went to mics with already, like my upbringing at me being dizzy and all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I would have probably stopped.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because it would have been so challenging.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. It's like I have to. I already have a hard time believing in myself during that time. All I need is to like, like bomb once on an open mic. Okay, all right, never mind. My bad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you have a sense from the, from your peers? It's so funny because, like, people, people have like starkly different takes on quote unquote, like, comedy classes, any kind of, like comedy education, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, but I, I'm, I, I'm kind of of your school of thought on it, which is like, if that's what it takes to get you, like Working on material then. Great.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You have to remember, a lot of us comedians, like you say, right. You. I mean, Jen's a artist, poet, together, you're a sculptor. We don't have the skills. So you want me to have discipline. A lot of us don't have that discipline. I needed that. I needed homework every week. I needed to show up to a place every week. I needed you to tell me what the. Okay, this class, for the next two hours, you're writing jokes. I need a discipline. I can't just go, oh, go to an open mic and I'll carve out time on my own. You know what I mean? I was bad at school, so. Yeah, whatever works for you, you know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love that. Yeah, that's great. What's the most absurd thing you've ever done while drunk?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

The absurd thing. Oh, this is not an absurd thing. It's. Well, I. I used to go through a period where I would get pretty naked.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Like, down to just my underwear, sometimes completely naked.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So socially you'd be, like, at someone's house or like at a bar.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Not in public. If it's like a house party, so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A house party?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, I usually.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you just get naked?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, just excited. Excited. I'm. And I'm getting warm. I'm so warm. Cause I'm dancing and I would just get.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That seems great. Yeah, that seems like a really positive drunk person at a party.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did it ever go badly? Ever go south? Well, does anyone ever, like, put your clothes back on?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Me and Ryan had a talk, actually, when we first started dating. He saw that. He was like, wait, is this a thing you do? Because it was like, earlier on, and I was like, oh, yeah, I just get happy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is so funny.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And he's like, you were just like, everything out, like, ah, like dancing, like, legs spread apart. And he said. He said at one point I was on my back, just like, song on, and I had my leg spread. I was so. And he said, you looked so happy, but you were like, laughing. Yeah, but I was on my back and I was like bouncing up, like, and down on my back like that. Just like, kind of showing myself to everyone. And he was like, I don't know if that's a. He was like, let's figure that out. Because.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let's figure that out.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Because we were getting. We were starting to figure out if we were getting serious or not, you know, and. Yeah, I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is my girlfriend gonna be the girl at the party naked, like, vibrating on the floor?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right, right, right, right. Yeah. And at first I didn't know why. It was a big deal, actually.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, but why is it a big deal?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Well, because maybe, you know, as you grow older, let's say, you know, that is your soulmate. And then. I don't know. Yeah, you can't. It's not gonna age well, I think.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I guess so. I don't know. It's funny. It makes me think of a time I was at someone's birthday party and the woman got kind of naked. Kind of. The way you're describing it, it was like a dance party. Dancing naked. Semi.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

N. Just one person though, right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And then the boyfriend did get mad, right?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Come on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The boyfriend got mad and, like, pulled her side and it was like. It was definitely a thing. And it did. But it did. Like, when I went home, I was thinking, like, what if Jen got super naked at a party? Like, what would I do?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't. I don't think I would call foul on it, though. I think that that's fair game. What if you got.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

What if you got naked?

[Mike Birbiglia]

If I got naked, what would Jen say? I think that's a closer call. I think it's less welcome. I think people at a party don't want to see m get naked. But Mike's drunken naked.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Hey, don't say that about my friend. Don't you dare say that about my friend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Support for working it out comes from Mint Mobile. It is summertime. Let's go over your guest list for your big summer barbecue. Friends, family, neighbors, your old wireless bill. No way. Not invited. Get outta here. Old wireless bill. Don't let your old expensive wireless bill crash your summer party. Switch to Mint Mobile. Save some cash, spend it on lemonade, a beach ball, other summer things. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month this year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless [e-mail], that's mintmobile.com per bigs. Upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for working it out comes from Quince. I am a big fan of clothes that feel good and also that last what lasts anymore. That's why I keep going back to quints. Their lightweight layers and high quality staples have become my everyday essentials. Actually, I got a cashmere sweater from Quince. I wore it, actually wore it on the Jimmy Kimmel Live show last week. You can check that out on YouTube and it was comfy and it looked great. And it's much less expensive than your than your other retail sweater places. All Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes stick to the staples that last with elevated essentials from quince. Go to quince.com forbigs for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com forbigs to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com burbigs Today's episode of Working it out is sponsored by Acorns Early. Acorns early is a smart money app and debit card for kids. It helps them learn the value of money Money. Acorns Early's chores tracker helps kids learn the value of a dollar. I wish I had a chore app when I was a kid. I could show my parents that yes, I did the dishes. Just check the app. You could check the sink too, but it's right there in the app. Actually, Acorns early lets parents pay allowances automatically. Very convenient. A lot of people don't really carry cash anymore. I actually don't. How are you going to pay your kids allowance? Write them a check. That doesn't seem great. With Acorns early you can pay their debit cards automatically. Kids can spend what they earn with their very own debit card. This is just a great way to be responsible about money. Learn how to use a debit card before using a credit card. Head to acornserly.com 4bigs or download the Acorns early app to help your kids grow their money skills. Today, Acorns early is issued by Community Federal Savings bank member FDIC pursuant to license by MasterCard International. Terms and conditions apply. Monthly subscription fee starting from five bucks a month unless canceled. I have a bunch of jokes that are like jokes. These are, this is like literally never done on stage jokes. Jokes. Okay.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think one of my main takeaways about spending so much time with my 84 year old dad is that your life is that your life gets worse.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So if you wake up in the morning now and you're like things are bad and this sucks and you should know, it gets worse. I'm not saying your situation isn't bad. I'm saying everything is relative. So if your life is bad, you should consider thinking of it as good. Because think about your life right now and then think, what if it was like. If it was like this, except I couldn't use my arms, legs, or brain.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a bit that I wrote this week. It's pretty dark, but it is true. It's definitely a thing I had, I thought, with my dad this week because he, you know, he's 15 months out of a stroke and.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right. I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He just can't do much.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, yeah. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And sometimes he can't even think much. It was like, that's a lot.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, I know. It's a. I think it's actually kind of empathy building.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You think so?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, it's kind of like a. Yeah. Human. It's a very. Humanity. Humanity joke.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it's a human. Humanity based joke.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Humanity based joke.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Humanity forward.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I think it's very funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You think it's funny? Funny enough to try.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. It's a little long right now. I think I trimmed the middle.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I mean, even just like, just. I mean, I know you want to go into the example of your dad. Even the first line, I'm like, well, I saw. I pictured it. I mean, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

But. But it's because, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. It gets worse as a line is funny. I think it's really the front and the back. It's like my takeaway is your life. It gets worse. And then think about. It's all relative. Think about your life right now. And then think, what if it was like this, except I can't use my arms or legs or brain. I think that's the whole joke.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Yeah. People will go, aw, at the end with the brain.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting. Like, so that's not good.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

No, no, no. But I wonder if there's like one more thing or. I don't know, there might be something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Cause then. Then they're gonna wonder who you. Because you. They're gonna be like, wow, is. Is his dad okay? Right again. They'll just think about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's crazy about my dad is that he goes in and out of having quality of life. That's the thing that's so challenging about this last, like, year and a half. You'll have days where I think that. I mean, that's the dark thought I have. On the bad days.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But on the good days, I'm like, oh, this is sweet. Cause I make the joke in my special. I go, you know, it's. My dad having a stroke is devastating. But it has calmed him down.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it's true.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm not even kidding. Like, he is softer.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which is good.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And it's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's given us, like, a bit of peace with each other.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. And it helps that we know what he used to be like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Exactly.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is a funny update for my special because my dad has not seen the special. People ask me this all the time, if your parents seen the special. My mom watched the special, didn't say anything to me about it. I liked it. Didn't like it. Whatever. But said to my brother Joe, I saw the special, and I think it will be helpful for some people.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh. Oh, yeah, that's great.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's enough.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, totally.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'll take it.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

She's not, you know, a critic.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Of comedy. And I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And. And it Also her son and her husband.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean? It's like, that's got to be a lot.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, totally.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then I wrote this one, which is my wife and I rarely argue other than when we get dressed up to go out. And then she asks me if I like her dress, and then I say, yes. That is a very controversial answer. She goes, do you like the dress? I go, I love it. She goes, no, you hate it. I go, no, I love it. She goes, you hate it? I go, I love it. And I think it's possible she has sensors implanted on my face, making sure any movement in my face is tracked at all times. And then basically, finally, it erupts in, just me shouting how much I love this dress. And. And meanwhile, I'm entirely indifferent to the dress. I don't know anything about dresses. Why would you ask me? Look at me.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's very funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You ever have that with Ryan because you're a fashionista? Do you ever ask him what he thinks of. Of something you're wearing? And it's. It cannot be the correct answer.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It's not the wearing thing. Sometimes it's like, jokes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, it's with jokes.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Or like, interview. I'm about to do an interview or something, and I'm like, oh, maybe I'll tell this story, you know? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Is this story good? And he's like, ah. And I'm like, so it's not good. I shouldn't do it. You know, I've done that. I did that yesterday. I mean, Before Seth Meyers. Yeah, that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that's the codependent thing, right? Because I think. Because the thing I'm describing is codependent, except with dresses. And it's true, you know? Jen runs her poetry by me, I run jokes by her. And it's the same thing that you're describing.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

There's no winning.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's no winning.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right. There's really, like, how do you feel at the end? You just go, well. Well, do you like it? Yeah, that's all that matters.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It gets back to, like, even more upsetting to hear. That's even more upsetting to hear.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you like it?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Babe, it's, you know, it's about what's on the inside. You know what I mean? You end up saying crazy things like that. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. And then the final thing I had was my dresser. Looks like a garage sale where nothing would sell for more than a nickel. It's like a glass of orange juice, a half a bottle of Advil, and some wrist guards. But if I came home and all that stuff was gone, I'd lose my fucking mind.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's hilarious.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'd be like, what happened to my life?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Wow, that's really brilliant. Oh, thanks. Tried that one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Since the special, I haven't. I have all this stuff in my notebook. I haven't tried any of it because I've been off stage.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Wow, that's so specific. It says so much about you, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I mean, all of them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The wrist guard. All of them, the nickels and the Advil.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Because the last two jokes. That one. And then Jen asking you how you like. Yeah, it's so good. It's the same world, you know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know. You mean you could pair them together potentially, right?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Because you're already going like, I mean, look at me. And then these are the things you own.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, you're absolutely right. No, you're right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Like, you don't think about, like, dresses like that deeply. Like, you'd be upset if, like, your. Your wrist guard and your. Whatever was missing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, my Advil.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Because that's all I have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

My Advil and my wrist guard. My identity.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, totally.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is who I am. That was a joke I had years ago about. About Top Gun. It's like, I had. It's like the joke was years ago. I go, like, every now and then, I'll take something from my past, like a movie I haven't seen in years and decades, and I'll, like, force my wife to watch it, and I'll Preface it with the phrase, this is who I am. And I was like, I did this with Top Gun. Do you have it with anything with Ryan of, like, this is who I am. Like, this is a movie, TV show, piece of art.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

He knows. He knows. My thing is like. Like, yeah. My identity is kind of Disneyland.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, Disneyland.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. It's not. It's the thing people fear. I'm kind of a villain. I'm kind of a villain. This is a very villainous thing to be.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which villain character?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh, I'm into it. All my backpack is Winnie the Pooh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Even that I. Winnie the Pooh is not a villain.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

He wears no pants. Like me at a party.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You at a party.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I love my pants. Like king.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, pants is king.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You know, that's my. That's my people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's my guy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Why is he wearing a shirt? Why. Why wear a shirt? Why even do that? You go naked or.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. And that's. That's the thing that no one's saying about Winnie the Pooh. He's drunk and he's dizzy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Yeah. So we're both. And the pantsless is the part that I relate to that maybe if I was asked why even. Why do the courtesy of wearing a top? You don't have nipples.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I think that that's great. I think. I actually think that if I do dizzy as a bit, what you suggested earlier, I think maybe I'll. I'll do a tie in, too. I'm Winnie the Pooh.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, you are. You are Winnie the Pooh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm a life size Winnie the Pooh and Winnie's, which apparently no one thinks is adorable.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Because he teeters on, like, why is he pantsless?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

But also his thing is he's very cute. This is how he thinks. Do you remember how he thinks?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thinks? Oh, no.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

He always goes, think, think, think. Like, he can't remember why he put somewhere. He put something somewhere.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You know? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you have new bits?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I'm just working on. It's not complete at all. It's just the idea that, like, Ryan is older than me, and so when, you know, and he's like. It's just him trying to get, like, the younger sayings. Like, we were watching RuPaul's drag with a friend, and my friend was like, it was the Runway portion. So we were looking at the looks, and my friend was like, yeah, she ate. And I was like, yeah, she left no crumbs. And I just hear Ryan go, she is so full.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Full.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

She's trying to Add to it. She is so full. She is not even hungry anymore.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She was satiated.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She is not looking for leftover.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Then he went, give her a bed. She needs a nap.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, she needs a nap.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

And so I thought, oh, is he like narrating Goldilocks and the Three Bears? If he's just doing children's stories, like narrating children's stories for every time we're trying to, you know, like we're saying, we're using young sayings. Like we're like, you know, she is queen. We are set. He's like, fee, FA fo, fo. You know, I don't know. That's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's good.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I need to figure out where it goes because it's just like all this, like if this then what. But.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I don't know, you know, it might be a thing I come back to later. Who knows? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I think like, maybe what you have to get to with it is like how you feel about it.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right. That's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean? Is it annoying?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is it sweet? Is it, you know, do you want them to do more, do it more, do it less?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I, I love it. I can relate to it too because, like, I also make up English words as an immigrant.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

So we're both doing things like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So I feel like you could pivot to that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like you could go, you know, I relate to that because I do that with English sayings, et cetera.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. I say on the light, off the light. You know, things like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's on the light?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Off the light, turn on. When people, like when. Turn off the light, I go, can you off the light? You know, things like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I love that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things. Anything above me is upstairs.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

So like when we're putting things above us in an airplane.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

I'll be like, can you get my laptop from upstairs? And so like, things like that. So we speak a language that we both understand with each other.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I think that's a great idea for a bit.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. I think I should make it like how I feel and also how it relates to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How it relates to you.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. You.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Do you like it? Do you not? Like it is annoying. Is it not annoying?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I love that, that I, Jenny and I always talk about that in relation to like whenever our, our daughter will say like a phrase like you're saying where it's like a made up phrase.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right, right, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, we're always like, yeah. Make up phrases. I mean, because poetry is like, all about that.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, the amount of, like, phrasing, like Shakespeare invented turns of phrase is like, that's what's fun about it.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And they become part of, like, you just keep adding different phrases to the cult, to culture.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally. Even, like, even the bit from your special daytime friends, nighttime friends. I feel like that could really be sticky.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Oh. Oh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People might call. Call each other their daytime friends or their nighttime friends.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

This is my daytime friend. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It made me think of this bit I have, which I want to get working, which is like, I feel like I experience joy, but there's different types of joy. Like, there's. There's dark joy and there's light joy. Like, light joy is like eating watermelon in the summertime. And dark joy is smoking pot through a watermelon. Light joy is when a puppy licks your face. And dark joy is when a lady at a bar licks your face. Light joy is flying a kite at the beach. And dark joy is using a broken kite as a sheet to have sex on, I think. And then light joy is watching videos of kittens on the Internet. Dark joy is watching videos of water slide accidents.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

It's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Wow. That was a bit. It's funny, I wrote that in my book, the new one book. And I've always wanted to do it as a bit, but I'm. But I. I don't know where it goes. Like, I have all the examples of like, what's light joy? What's dark joy?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But it's. It's the same issue of your bit a second ago, which is like, well, how do I feel about it?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do I want there to be more dark joy?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't know.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right. And like, why. Why does one make a light? What? What makes something light versus dark? I mean, I get it by hearing the. Right. And what it. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's almost like when you, when you were grown up, at a certain point, it's like you end up in like, like PG joy. It's almost like PG joy versus, like X rated joy or R rated joy.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right? Yeah, yeah. It's finding that balance. And then what you don't want is to. To only have dark joys.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's also key, right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no. And I. As a matter of fact, that's an interesting point. I have friends who, you know, comedians, a little bit, are Peter Pan. Peter Pan syndrome.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People who just want to be Nighttime friends forever kind of thing. Right? They're like, I want to stay in this lane.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Of dark joy forever. I know at a certain point you're.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Like, yo, that's not good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, this is not great.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

That's not good. You're dying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're dying. You're dead. You just died.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Okay. Sex on the beach. A tarp. Yeah, you're dead.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

You live outside.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're concerned is what you're telling me. We're concerned as a group because the.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Things that you said that are the dark choice is things that, like, people in the darkest times have to find the light. And so they're like, hey, at least I got laid on the beach, sweetie. You. You live outside. You know what I mean? Let's help you. Let's help you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, that's right. That's actually great. That's super helpful for process, talking that through, because I've been stumped by that bit for a while. Like, I think it's funny on its face. Like, the examples are funn, and I think people kind of get it. But it's a little bit like, what else?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What if this. What else?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The final thing is working it out for a cause. Is there an organization that. That you like to contribute to?

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah. Can we. Can we do Trevor Project?

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You did this the other day for who Wants to Be a Millionaire? And it's a great organization that supports LGBTQ youth. Youth. And yeah, I think it's a great organization. And we'll contribute to them. Encourage people to contribute as well. Katsuko A. Katsuka. So happy for you. Atsuko Katsuka. You are outdoing yourself, which I didn't even think you could do because I thought that you were already soaring into the heavens. I don't know. I don't know where you are now, but I love, love it.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

Thank you, Mike. I feel that way about you all the time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And we're both. And we're both Dizzy to my d.

[Atsuko Akatsuka]

To my Dizzy to my dizziest queen. We are a dizzy royal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're a dizzy duo. We're the dizzy royals. Working it out cuz it's not done. We're working it out cuz there's no that's going to do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Atsuko on Instagram at At Atsuko Comedy A t S UKO Comedy. You can see Father her special on Hulu and Disney plus. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel, ikebirbiglia. You're gonna want to see this one, if only for Atsuko's outfit. So good. My outfit. It's fine. It's fine. Check that out. Subscribe we're gonna be posting more and more videos. Check out birdbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list and be the first to know about my upcoming show. Shows including the Q and A I'm doing with Hasan Minhaj in New York City this week at the 92nd Street Y. Our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglian, Mabel Lewis, associate producer Gary Simons sound mix by Shub Saran supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife J. Hope Stein, the poet and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio fort made of pillow. Close thanks most of all who are listening. If you enjoy the show, do us a favor and rate us and review us on Apple podcasts. We've done 170 something episodes at this point. All free. No paywall. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell your daytime friends and your nighttime friends. That's right, tell your daytime friends. Hey, check out this great podcast. It's so wholesome and inspirational. It's about creative process and having fun with jokes. Then tell your nighttime friends. Check out this great pot podcast. It's very dark. Topics like death and insecurity and they make jokes about all of it. The twist? Same podcast. That's right everybody. Thanks a lot for coming around. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.