181. Jo Firestone Returns: The Best Stand-Up (Who Doesn’t Do Stand-Up)

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out
Episode: 181. Jo Firestone Returns: The Best Stand-Up (Who Doesn’t Do Stand-Up)
Date: August 18, 2025
Host: Mike Birbiglia
Guest: Jo Firestone

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

This episode features the irrepressibly original comedian and writer Jo Firestone, returning for her third conversation with Mike Birbiglia. The episode explores Jo’s unconventional approach to comedy, her transition away from traditional stand-up, what it’s like to head up a TV writer’s room, and the joys and oddities of her experimental shows (including pie tasting and interactive clay “performance”). Throughout, Mike and Jo riff on the complexities of creative fulfillment, insecurity, and the tension between their personal comedic instincts and public reaction. With their signature mix of warmth, awkwardness, and insight, they also “work out” new material, ideas, and, as always, a few deeply silly tangents.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jo’s Comedy Journey: “The Best Stand-Up (Who Doesn’t Do Stand-Up)”

• Jo explains her move away from traditional stand-up:
  “I don't do standup anymore.” (06:42)
• She recounts a disastrous recent show at Union Hall:
  • The show involved audience members making deliberately bad art with five pounds of air-dry clay, to “cleanse” them for better work.
  • Jo's fiancé was in the crowd and, as Jo describes, “I kept looking at him... and you know the face your loved ones make when you are making a fool of yourself?” (08:42)
  • She is frank: “It was so bad. And I'm doing a second one.” (06:58)

2. Experimental Shows & Creative Fulfillment

• Jo details her love for creating over performing:
  • She feels most fulfilled “making it, getting it done,” not from audience approval. (12:54)
  • “The reception is really the worst. The worst part.” (13:10)
• Discusses other “concept shows”: car wash show, pie tasting “not a contest, just a taste,” and a show where the audience beat paper mache objects for hours.

3. Comedy & the Audience: The Venn Diagram of What’s Funny

• Jo feels her comedic sensibility is often different from the crowd:
  • “I feel like nothing I think is funny is funny to others.” (14:22)
• Mike offers the “Venn diagram” metaphor:
  “Here's what I think is funny, here's what they think is funny. And I'm trying to figure out, like, what's in that middle area, the little shaded area.” (14:00)

4. Working in Writers’ Rooms (After Midnight, Tonight Show, etc.)

• Head writer for After Midnight, Jo describes the job as:
  • Less about a singular vision, more “trying to wrangle other people's ideas.” (27:18)
  • The breakneck pace: “With Late night, they're like, build it fast... you have three hours, write the whole thing.” (23:32, 23:39)
• Challenges of being the “camp counselor” in a room of comedians.

5. Personal Stories & Creative Insecurities

• Jo shares her feelings of not fitting:
  • “I was the shortest, ugliest person there [in LA] ... I kept trying to find an uglier, shorter person, and I could not find it.” (14:31)
• She often feels like “that old pizza slice” in comedy, with newer talent being the “fresh pizza.” (49:33)

6. Modern Life, Technology & Internet Culture

• Explains her confusion with Google Docs (“thought once you did a Google Doc, you could never find it again” (20:57)) and her role as a reluctant “youth ambassador” in the After Midnight room.
• Amusing struggle with internet lingo: T Job Jobo vs. IDJ BOL (“I just burst out laughing”). (28:27, 29:06)
• Talks about the “Mu Dang” baby hippo meme phenomenon.

7. Relationships & Domestic Life

• On the mutual self-sacrifice of long-term relationships:
  • “Whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do. ... Twenty years later and no one’s done what anyone wants to do.” – Mike (42:36)
• Jo recommends couples alternate days of decision-making on vacation to avoid frustration. (43:11)
• Discussion of comedy about height and dating (“short king” and “size queen” culture).

8. Mental Health, Anxiety, and Burnout

• During stressful times as head writer, Jo self-medicates with “five caffeines a day... four coffees and one soda,” and delves into using “good vibes” music as a coping mechanism—“I crashed my car while that was playing.” (32:26, 33:07)
• Reflects on losing her “comedy hustle” post-pandemic: “I think that maybe... I believed comedy is my life. And now I’m like, I don’t know her. I don’t have that hustle.” (35:31-35:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative failure:
  "I kept looking at him... and you know the face your loved ones make when you are making a fool of yourself?"
  — Jo Firestone (08:42)

• On audience response:
  “The reception is really the worst. The worst part.”
  — Jo Firestone (13:10)

• Mike, on couples’ mutual indecision:
  “It’s like whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do... and it’s 20 years later and no one’s done what anyone wants to do.”
  — Mike Birbiglia (42:36)

• Jo, on quitting stand-up and her place in comedy:
  “For me, personally, I just... I’m like that old slice. I just don’t think that’s true.”
  — Jo Firestone (49:33–49:36)

• On head writing:
  “It's not like you're like, I got this creative vision. Come with me. Yeah, it's like... you're trying to wrangle other people's ideas.”
  — Jo Firestone (27:18-27:33)

• On learning internet slang:
  "I can't believe I'm your youth ambassador. That's wild."
  — Jo Firestone (29:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|-------------| | 03:14 | Jo returns; Union Hall and experimental shows | | 06:42 | Jo: “I don't do standup anymore.” | | 08:42 | Jo recounts her fiancé’s mortified face at her conceptual art show | | 09:20 | Air-dry clay show; “making the worst art ever” | | 12:54 | Jo on fulfillment in making, not sharing creations | | 14:00 | Mike’s ‘Venn diagram’ of comedy audience | | 17:00 | Both discuss taking martial arts for ‘the end is nigh’ anxiety | | 20:57 | Jo: “I thought once you did a Google Doc, you could never find it again.” | | 22:38 | Jo's style in TV writer’s rooms; needing collaboration | | 27:18 | Jo on being head writer: “wrangling other people's ideas” | | 28:27 | Jo’s confusion over internet laugh acronyms (“T Job Jobo”) | | 32:26 | Jo’s caffeine habits; coping with job stress | | 35:31-35:52 | Jo on losing her comedic hustle post-pandemic | | 49:33 | Jo’s “old pizza slice” metaphor for her place in comedy | | 51:59–53:31 | Jo chooses the Ali Forney Center as spotlight non-profit |

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Standout Jokes, Bits & Bits-in-Progress

• Short/Ugly in LA:
  Jo’s ongoing bit about being “the shortest, ugliest person in LA,” and how this fails with Brooklyn audiences who are “short uglies” too. (14:31, 46:24, 46:41)

• “Clay cleansing” show:
  Jo’s conceptual comedy: “trying to get [audience] to make the worst art ever so that we can cleanse them.” (09:20)

• Relationships: The “Whatever you want to do” loop
  Bit about couples deferring to each other endlessly and never doing what they want. (42:36–42:46)

• Nicknames:

  • “The girl with the Ronald McDonald hair.” (36:27)
  • Restaurant nickname: “Little piece of crap.” (36:41)
  • Trying (unsuccessfully) to get “Meatball” going. (37:08)

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Tone & Flow

The episode is spontaneous, playful, and a little “unhinged” — per Mike’s intro. Jo’s signature mix of self-deprecation, surreal concepts, and warm detachment blends with Mike’s gentle ribbing and thoughtful questions. Both acknowledge the messiness of creative work, the insecurity beneath performance, and the odd satisfactions found more in making than in any reaction.

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Nonprofit Highlight

The Ali Forney Center (aliforneycenter.org)
— Chosen by Jo Firestone, supporting homeless and at-risk LGBTQ+ youth.

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For fans and new listeners alike, this episode is an unpredictable, funny, and honest look at what it means to be a creative person—especially when your work doesn’t fit easy categories. Jo Firestone, as always, is one of a kind.

Transcript

[A]

Do you know how many mics I've dated?

[B]

No.

[A]

5. Okay.

[B]

That's so many mics.

[A]

Many mics.

[B]

If you're like so many mics, it's like a song.

[A]

Oh, like Neil Brennan.

[B]

That's three mics. Oh, Neil Brennan's special.

[A]

I can do a five mics.

[B]

They'd say that's your special five mics. That is the voice of the great Joe Firestone. We are so excited to have back Joe Fire. So one of our favorite guests of all time, Jo, is a comedian, author, actor, writer. She even created two card games, Plunderdome and Fruits. She played a small role in my film Don't Think Twice. You know her from Joe Pera talks with you. She was the head writer for After Midnight with Taylor Tomlinson. It's her third time on the podcast and if you haven't listened to the first two, I highly recommend those. She is one of a kind. The episodes we've done with her are truly unhinged, as is today in the best way. Thanks everybody who came out to these four shows that I just did with Nick Kroll and Fred Armisen in support of John Mulaney's new tour. So fun. We are back September 13th at Stanley park in Vancouver. Get [e-mail] and if you haven't checked out the Good Life on Netflix, that is my new special out on Netflix. We've had so many people discovering the show lately. I think between our episode with Bob Odenkirk, which had a clip that went so far and wide, it was on my TikTok and Instagram, it was seen by, I don't know, 25 million people or something. And then hilariously, it was picked up by all these parenting and dad Instagram accounts and sort of, you know, people putting their different own filters and commentaries on it. And it was a whole darn thing of Bob Odenkirk's answer to the question, who are you jealous of? And his answer was, people who still have young kids at home. And it was very sweet and a lot of parents really connected with it, including me and my wife. So if you didn't listen to the Bob Odenkirk episode, you should check that out. That's a really, really good episode. And the full video of it is on YouTube as well as the Kumail Nanjiani episode, who is on Broadway right now as Abraham Lincoln and Omar. So today we have this great chat with Jo Firestone. We talk about what she does on stage now. Her. Her comedy shows are, if you ever Have a chance to see her. She's fantastic. Very experimental, very experiential. Sometimes they involve clay. Her latest show at Union hall in Brooklyn is a pie tasting show. When we talk about working in writers rooms, like after midnight. She's worked on the Tonight Show. There is no one like Joe Firestone. And I always have a great chat with her. Enjoy my conversation with the great Joe Firestone. We're working it. Last time you were here, it was, I would say, wildly unhinged. No, you're hard. Well, you're hard to wrangle. No, you're hard to wrangle.

[A]

I come in a cage and I say, here's the key.

[B]

You did come in a cage. And then you let yourself out of the cage. It's over by the door. It's off camera. Crate train.

[A]

I'm crate trained.

[B]

But okay. So I found out you were in town because I get the Union hall bell house email, which people should get, by the way.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

It's great. Yeah.

[A]

You find out what's going on.

[B]

You find out what's going on in Brooklyn Comedy scene. And they book great shows.

[A]

They do.

[B]

I developed a bunch of shows there.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

All of my girlfriend's boyfriend's special I did in that basement at Union Hall.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And then we shot a lot of Sleepwalk with Me film at Union Hall.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

All tons of parts of it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

But you did. But so I noticed. I knew that you were the head writer for After Midnight because I saw you. I was on it.

[A]

You were great.

[B]

Thanks. I tried my best. And then it got canceled.

[A]

Sure did. Sure did. Sure. That's what they said.

[B]

So how'd you feel when it got canceled? Were you like. Because I know you like New York, so there must have been some hint of relief that you get to come back to New York. It was silver lining. Even though you got canceled. Being canceled sucks.

[A]

But yeah, there was definitely a silver lining there with the coming back. I don't think that I am supposed. I am gonna be. I'm not gonna be one of those people that's like, la, is this New York? Is this.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Louisiana's a dolphin. New York is a manta ray.

[A]

Yeah, whatever. I'm not doing that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But for me, that's not really a place where I'm thriving. I finished the Mentalist. I went through episode one through. They get married.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Robin Tierney and Simon Baker get married.

[B]

Okay. I've never seen an episode at the beginning. They don't want Anything to do with each other. You're going way past that. As much time, knowledge of the show.

[A]

So much time.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I've spent watching the Mentalist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So I'm like.

[B]

Can I just say that you are younger than me and sometimes you feel like my aunt.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. It took so long to get here and I'm so sweaty. And then you're like, hey, how about this for a razz? No. Okay, so I'm young compared to some.

[B]

You're much younger than me. Well, yeah. Well.

[A]

Hey, are you in your 40s?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So can I ask you something? What would you say a cowardly man in his 40s does for fun?

[B]

For fun? Cowardly. I would just think, like, stays indoors, kind of agorapho. Agoraphobic.

[A]

What's he do indoors?

[B]

Oh, maybe watches Game of Thrones.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Like, back to back.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Over and over again.

[A]

Okay. Oh, that's good.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Okay, that's. Are you writing something where there's a cowardly man in his 40s?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you were thinking of me?

[A]

No. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

You think I can play that part?

[A]

I'm not razzing you. I'm not razzing you. I don't say. Oh, you know. Well, you seem like my nephew. No, this is just. I'm doing some research. I'm trying to. You know, I haven't. I don't do standup anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you.

[B]

You are. You're doing standup? I saw you at Union Hall. It was on the email.

[A]

Would. You would not believe what that show is.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would say it was one of the worst.

[B]

Really?

[A]

It was so bad. And I'm doing a second one.

[B]

So now you're quitting?

[A]

No, I quit before you quit.

[B]

But then you came back for one final show at Union hall and you quit.

[A]

This show was not. Oh, it was.

[B]

Is it bad?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've never seen you not be good.

[A]

It was so bad. And then. And during it, I was like, okay, so, you know, I got engaged.

[B]

No.

[A]

I got engaged.

[B]

Congrats.

[A]

Oh, thanks. It's like I pretty much held him at gunpoint.

[B]

We're going to send this video to tmz.

[A]

Well, truly, I was like, we're getting married. Okay. So. So then he came, and I was like, don't come. And he's like, I'm gonna come. And then.

[B]

Your fiance.

[A]

Yeah. You know him?

[B]

Yeah, Mike. Yeah, Mike me.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yeah, we Got engaged a few weeks ago. And then I came to your show the other night.

[A]

So. So, so basically you know. Okay. Do you know, Truly, do you know how many mics I've dated?

[B]

No.

[A]

5. Okay.

[B]

That's so many mics.

[A]

Many mics.

[B]

If you're like so many mics, it's like a song.

[A]

Oh. Like Neil Brennan.

[B]

That's three mics. Oh, Neil Brennan's special.

[A]

I can do a five mics.

[B]

Five Mike. That's your special five mics.

[A]

Okay, so. So.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Okay. So we were talking. Oh. So basically I was like, don't come, don't come. You're not gonna like it. It's gonna be bad. I knew it was gonna be bad.

[B]

Because, by the way, one of the great luxuries of doing stand up comedy is when you get to a point where you don't have to have people, you know, in the audience.

[A]

That's essent. Yeah.

[B]

So then what do you think?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, yeah, it'd be great to ride in a limo. Okay. So basically I kept looking at him.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And you know the face your loved ones make when you are making a fool of yours?

[B]

Uh huh. That's what he was doing.

[A]

This is the face he was making.

[B]

Okay. Oh, God.

[A]

And I was like, dang. That's true. Here's the thing, is that I set it up really bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where I was like, this is gonna be not even a show. I'm sorry. And then people were like, oh. And then I knew already I'd set it up pretty bad.

[B]

This is at Union Hall.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

This is your stand up show?

[A]

It's not a stand up show.

[B]

Well, what do you. Why do you keep saying that?

[A]

Because it wasn't.

[B]

What was it?

[A]

I told one joke and they were like, oh. And then I was like, whoa. And then we basically I was trying to get them to make the worst art ever so that we can cleanse them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So that they can go off and make good stuff.

[B]

So let's just call it a conceptual show. That is ridiculous. That's the premise of the show. Okay, tell me what the joke is.

[A]

I got like five pounds of air dry clay.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

So much.

[B]

Five. Okay. I'm imagining this five pounds of air dry clay.

[A]

It's clay you don't have to put in the oven.

[B]

Okay. And then did you hand it out to the audience?

[A]

Yeah. And then I basically had them come up with like the worst like, like, like a theater and the worst song and dance and pictures. And then it was just like, and then it was. That was to cleanse them.

[B]

But this, this of course goes to what I love about your shows. You're saying it's not stand up, but it's its own kind of comedy creation.

[A]

It wasn't. It.

[B]

It's experimental. It's far out something. But you don't need the audience to like, go nuts. You just need for it to be an experience. It seems like what you're going for is not setup punch, but rather an experience. And they got it. They will never forget it.

[A]

You know, I think it's just. It's. Yeah. I'm doing this other thing on Sunday, a pie tasting festival.

[B]

I saw that.

[A]

But people keep thinking it's a pie eating contest.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we're going to run out of pies so fast because people only are supposed to eat one chunk.

[B]

Yeah. That's a pie adjacent activity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's not the same pie activity. No, yours is. Yours is pie tasting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that. And that a more common one is pie eating competition. Like competitive eaters.

[A]

Right. That's not what we're doing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Hope nobody shows.

[B]

So you do all these wild shows that are kind of bizarre concepts, like the pie tasting. You did a car wash show once.

[A]

Oh, that was rough.

[B]

Like, what would you do if it was just like, there's no.

[A]

I didn't spend money. No one bought tickets.

[B]

Right?

[A]

No one bought tickets.

[B]

No one bought tickets.

[A]

And so then they eyed the front. The cash, and I didn't have that cash. And so I wrote a check knowing it would bounce by the end of the day. And then luckily people came and drank a lot, which was great because then they could. But it was. It was. I was a little. I was sweating there for a bit.

[B]

So. Okay, you're doing a pie tasting this week. This will have elapsed by the time this comes out. Yeah, this comes out in a week or so. You did the car wash show.

[A]

These things are.

[B]

You did this recent show at Union hall that you're telling me where you distributed clay.

[A]

No, like, the clay was not even. That was probably the best part of it. And now I got four and a half pounds of clay at my house. It's just like these things are so poorly conceived. But the thing is that I'll execute anything.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And then immediately feel regret.

[B]

Right. There's something in you that wants to execute and create and have a thing happen.

[A]

If you were like, what part feels best?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Making it. Getting it done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Having people see it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would say making it, getting it Done.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, if you could just put me in a cell and you're like, make seven buttons.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, whatever. You like creating things.

[A]

But then the reception is really the worst. The worst part.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One time I did this thing where I made a bunch of paper mache and let people beat it for four hours. And I hid. Oh, I couldn't watch it.

[B]

What are you going to do at your wedding? Are you going to bring some of this energy to the wedding?

[A]

I don't think people like this.

[B]

No.

[A]

Based on my numbers. No, I don't think people like this. And then, and then I think also what I think is. What I think is funny is not. I'd say what you think is funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Other people think is funny.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When you write a joke, it makes.

[B]

Sense to others, but that's process of elimination. Like, I, like, I always think of it as like a Venn diagram. It's like, here's what I think is funny, here's what they think is funny. And I'm trying to figure out, like, what's in that middle area, the little shaded area.

[A]

I think it's just one circle in my mind. It's just one circle.

[B]

Your side, what you think is funny.

[A]

And that's what other people. No, that's what. And that's what other people think is funny for you.

[B]

Oh, yeah. But that's a sleight of hand. That's a trick.

[A]

Everybody's magician. That's. I feel like nothing I think is funny is funny to others.

[B]

It's not true.

[A]

No. Well, you're like, can I tell you something?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Can I tell you something that I think is really funny and makes people so sad?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I came back from in la. I was the shortest, ugliest person there.

[B]

In all of Los Angeles.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I. I don't believe it.

[A]

I looked around, I just don't believe it. And I kept trying to find an uglier, shorter person.

[B]

False premise.

[A]

I kept trying to find an uglier, shorter person and I could not find it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then I come back here and I'm surrounded by short uglies at a field workout.

[B]

Yeah. Great place for them.

[A]

But then New York City, if I say that people are like, oh, oh, right.

[B]

They feel bad.

[A]

They feel bad.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

It's. It's just not. It's.

[B]

You know what? Sometimes I think this, this goes straight into the working it out section of this podcast. But I think sometimes with stuff like that, if you're self deprecating, it's like you need to orient the audience in that you're okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I was.

[A]

Oh, you'd be like, I'm taller than children. Actually, I did just see a cousin yesterday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

God's so tall.

[B]

Oh, wow. Yeah. My daughter's tall.

[A]

How tall?

[B]

Five feet.

[A]

Are you joking?

[B]

No, I'm not joking. She's ten.

[A]

That's how tall I am.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Your daughter is five feet tall?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What?

[B]

Not only that, she's five foot and a half inch. Ew.

[A]

I would be sick. Are you serious? Are you serious?

[B]

I'm serious. It's intimidating for my wife, actually. She's getting there. She's on the way.

[A]

I am going to be sick.

[B]

No, no, I get it.

[A]

Are a lot of your, like, people around you keep talking about, like, how the end is near?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Like. Like real severe pessimists. Yeah, sure.

[A]

So, like, I. A lot of my friends here are severe pessimists.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like. And they were like, you got to buy a gun. And I was like, I can't buy a gun. I really just.

[B]

You have friends who are like, you got to buy a gun.

[A]

Yes. And I was like. And then they're. You got to buy a crossbow. Crossbow.

[B]

Crossbow.

[A]

And I was like, I just can't have this in my house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? I could barely take the steak knives out.

[B]

I'm not gonna do that.

[A]

So then they were like, well, then just take a martial arts class.

[B]

Okay. Smart.

[A]

And then I got the crap kicked out of me. I went to one class. Really? I was choked within minutes.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

Pinned down by this girl's knees.

[B]

Was it like kickboxing?

[A]

No, it was jiu jitsu.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

I couldn't believe it.

[B]

Wow. I did kickboxing.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

And. But there was no real combat. It was mostly like, you know, an instructor, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I wrote down an observation. I tried kickboxing, which was a huge mistake. My instructor explained to me she didn't use those words, but at the end of the lesson, she said, quote, if you ever do this again. I said, I think I'm gonna do it again. I just purchased a packet of lessons from you right there. And then I go. She also called me short. She didn't say the word short. She just said, when you jab, you want to jab up. And I said, or wherever my opponent is. And she said, what? And I said, nothing that makes me want to do that joke.

[A]

That's a good joke. You should do that.

[B]

We could do kind of a Jiu Jits kickboxing combo act.

[A]

That's what they're. That's what they're hoping for. That's what they're hoping.

[B]

That's what the audiences are sort of begging for.

[A]

Yeah, they. They do want that.

[B]

So.

[A]

But if I was. I think truly. I think if I was 5, 10, I think my life would be so good.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I would walk.

[B]

Your life is great now.

[A]

I would walk around. Respect.

[B]

You're a comedian. You're a comedy writer. Things are going well. You gotta put it in context. No, no.

[A]

I think this would be really good just to.

[B]

Are you five' ten, five' nine?

[A]

Do you think your life would be better with just one more inch?

[B]

Five' ten. One more inch. I only thought about it when I saw the Celine song movie recently. Oh, that one about dating.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Where someone's, like, a professional dating expert, and then they fall in love with, like, Pedro Pascal, but then they have another boyfriend that's like Chris Evans. The Materialist is the movie that I was referencing. And then the whole thing is. It's just very cynical about New York dating. Like. Like, men being like, I only want women who are blah, blah, blah. And women being like, I only want men who are six feet tall and upper. Whatever. I literally hadn't even considered. I'm five nine. I was never like, oh, that's on the short end of it. I thought it was like, that sort of average five, nine.

[A]

You know, it's like, I'm looking for a guy in finance. Six, five. Do, do.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The height thing, I never. Yeah, I never considered.

[A]

I know. It's a big thing.

[B]

It's a thing. Apparently, people really. I found out in this movie.

[A]

That's how you found out?

[B]

Yeah. I had no idea.

[A]

It's like a huge culture.

[B]

I've been with my wife for 20. You're looking at me like I'm crazy. I've been with my wife for 20 years, so I don't think about dating. I just don't think about it.

[A]

But as a standup comedian, you have been exposed to so many jokes about dating.

[B]

No, you're right.

[A]

That I'm like, where did.

[B]

That's a good point.

[A]

How did it not come in? Like, I have no idea. Everyone's like, short king. I want a tall one.

[B]

I know it's true. Maybe I'm not watching enough of the other comments.

[A]

I think you got it. I think you gotta check in. That's what everyone's talking about.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a big topic. Size queen.

[A]

Size queen.

[B]

Oh, okay. That's a thing, too.

[A]

Size queen.

[B]

Yeah. What does that mean?

[A]

It means I think that you want to have a big.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Okay, this isn't junk. This junk isn't big enough for me.

[B]

So that makes you a size queen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you're considering that.

[A]

Okay, I am not the person to tell you this stuff.

[B]

No, no, I think you're just the person. Because I have no other sources.

[A]

I'm sorry, that's the case. I just was the head writer for the show about the Internet, and I. Every day I was like, wow. Like, I learned Google Docs three years ago. Like, this is. I'm not.

[B]

Google Docs.

[A]

Google Docs. I thought once you did a Google Docs, you could never find it again.

[B]

What do you mean you can never find it again?

[A]

I thought once you did a Google Docs, it was gone.

[B]

Google Docs.

[A]

Do you know what I'm talking about?

[B]

Like a shared Google document with someone else?

[A]

Yes. Then I was like, what do you mean it's gone? I did not know you could just go back to it. I just figured I left that page. It's gone. But now I know Google Docs forever. And I know some Internet terms like mudang.

[B]

What's mudang?

[A]

Baby hippo.

[B]

That's an Internet term?

[A]

Yes. Like a wet mudang was very popular.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Mudang was very popular.

[B]

Innuendo.

[A]

No, it was like a wet baby hippo.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And everybody loved Mu dang. But then mudang started biting.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And now mu dang just turned one.

[B]

Oh, this is like an actual hippo. Like at a. At a preserve or something?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Wildlife preserve.

[A]

Yeah. This was very big.

[B]

What do you think? Okay, so you wrote for Joe Pera. Talks with you. You wrote for zway. I can't believe tonight's shown about Mu Ding after midnight. I know. I still don't even fully understand what you're talking about, other than it's a hippo. Baby hippo.

[A]

Well, it's mature now.

[B]

Okay, so you've written for Joe Perra, Z Way, the Tonight Show, After Midnight. What do you think? What makes someone a good writer in a writer's room? For real? Why are you laughing so hard?

[A]

I just think it's like. Well, I don't. Not me. I think it's like. I think truly. I think it's really. It's like this weird thing where it's just like, you really gotta get along with other people. That's big because you spend a lot of time with people.

[B]

You get along with people sometimes. I've never seen you not get along with someone.

[A]

You know, I think I'm a little bit. I get a little grumpy. I'm a grumpy person.

[B]

You're like, mu dang.

[A]

I'm a little bit like, mu dang. That was good. That was good.

[B]

That's a good writer's remove.

[A]

That was good.

[B]

Called back to your thing.

[A]

That's really good.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, I love. And I really like. I like it when people, like, sometimes in a writer's room, you're like, no, that's a bad idea. But I really like when people are like, hey, here's another idea. Like a solution oriented.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. But I would say that it was. I tried to make it a pleasant experience, but I'm sure you did. It's hard to say if that happened.

[B]

I always think of collaborative writing things as, like, you're like, yes. Handing what the other person says, yes. And what you say, you. Yes. And that. And then you build, build, build. And then you're like, is this something.

[A]

I know, but then.

[B]

Or you just throw it away?

[A]

With Late night, they're like, build it fast. And you're like, whoa, whoa. Okay.

[B]

And they're like, build it fast.

[A]

It's like, truly. It's crazy. Like, you're like, you have three hours, right? The whole thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you're like, okay, let's do it.

[B]

Build it fast.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what it was like when I was on After Midnight, I was like, all day. I was just like, this, this, this. Okay, now we're filming it, which is fun. It's like sirent Live, but in, like, a day.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Instead of a week.

[A]

That's true. They do get a week.

[B]

You get a whole week.

[A]

Yeah, that one. One time, I was at the Tonight show, and they and the Backstreet Boys walked by in chicken suits, and I was like, dang. This is really. This is really late night.

[B]

This is a very late night. Support for Working it out comes from square. I'm so excited about this one. I've been using square for years on Tor. When we sell merch, Tor T shirts, tour sweatshirts, we use a little square reader, which allows us to sell merch quickly and easily after the show so you're not stuck waiting in a line too long. A very common thing to hear on tour is, do you have the square? I thought you had the square. Oh, no, I have the square. That's a very common thing. But I love it. So that's what we use. That's the Square point of sale system. But Square is actually much more than that. It's a great tool for your business. We whether you're running a cafe, a salon, boutique, something entirely your own, Square gives you the flexibility to grow at your own pace and even set up an online store in just a few clicks. Square keeps up so you don't have to slow down. Get everything you need to run and grow your business without any long term commitments. And why wait? Right now you can get up to $200 off square hardware at square.com go burbigs. That's s q u a r e dot com q g o slash b I r B I G S Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today. Support for Working it out comes from Rula Talked a lot about therapy on this show before. Big advocate of it. I've been in therapy for over 20 years. Rula is an affordable online therapy platform. Finding a therapist is hard enough, but finding one who actually takes your insurance, that's a whole. That's a whole tricky thing. And it's where most online therapy platforms fall short. Many don't work with insurance at all, which means you're stuck paying the full cost out of pocket or paying for an expensive monthly subscription. Rula does things differently. They partner with over 100 insurance plans, making the average copay just 15 bucks per session. That's real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense. Think about it. You use your insurance benefits to maintain your physical health, so why wouldn't you do the same for your mental health? Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance visitors. Rula.combrbigs to get started, after you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our podcast and let them know we sent you. That's r u l a.combrbigs you deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Everything you've done I looked on Rotten Tomatoes is rated between an 89% and 100%.

[A]

That's not true.

[B]

Are you ready to admit in this podcast that you're a critical darling?

[A]

That is so not true.

[B]

It is true.

[A]

I think a lot of usually if I get hired on something, I think, well, this is about to turn.

[B]

Do you really feel that way?

[A]

I don't. Cause I don't feel like. I feel like I don't have any. I feel like whatever I think is funny. Does not connect at all to people.

[B]

Wait, but you were the head writer for After Midnight for what, two years? About two years or so.

[A]

Yeah, but it's. But being a head writer is not. It's not like you're like, I got this creative vision. Come with me. Yeah, it's like. It's basically like you're trying to wrangle other people's ideas.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So, like, you're really not.

[B]

You're like the camp counselor.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Are you good Camp counselor? Did you ever camp counsel?

[A]

Yeah. No. Terrible.

[B]

But you weren't good at it.

[A]

I'm terrible.

[B]

You lose the kids.

[A]

Well, in the forest, this is what I really did feel like. Truly, like, every day I felt like these and these writers are very talented people, but truly, every day I felt like they came in being like, teacher, teacher, please kill yourself.

[B]

What?

[A]

And I just was like, this is. I wanted to become.

[B]

That's what they were. That was what you were getting from them.

[A]

In my mind, they didn't say that.

[B]

But you felt that? From them?

[A]

In my mind, every.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like there was this thing where it was like, you know. You know. Lol.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the Gen Z, this thing called idj Bowl.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I mixed it up, and I thought it was T Job Jobo.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I text that someone made a joke, and I trying to give positive feedback, I replied, T Job Jobo.

[B]

What does that. But what does that mean? What does the actual thing mean?

[A]

Just. I just rolled on the floor or something.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Bowl it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I just rolled on the ball.

[B]

Okay. Id rolling on the floor, laughing. Is that what you mean? Hold on, I'm going to look this up. Id I just burst out laughing.

[A]

I just burst out laughing. That's it. And I thought that. I thought that I forgot what it stood for. And I thought it was Teachab Jobo L. Oh, sorry.

[B]

I J, B, O. L is slang acronym for I just burst out laughing. Yeah, I've never had that. I've never gotten that vocal.

[A]

I can't believe I'm your youth ambassador. That's wild.

[B]

And then of course, there's lol, R, O, F, L, L, M, A, O. I know those.

[A]

Yeah. But then it's like I didn't hear the end of T Job Joe Bo. They were like, you're T jobbing my jobo. I couldn't hear.

[B]

I don't know what that means.

[A]

I don't know either. And they kept going for T Job Jobo. I couldn't believe how much T Job Jobo.

[B]

Wait, hold on. I gotta look that up, though.

[A]

No, there is no tea job.

[B]

Oh, they just made that up.

[A]

No, I thought it was IDJ bowl.

[B]

But it was teejab dribble. What was that?

[A]

Nothing. You know what? I bet? I bet people will comment on your stuff and sometimes say an inch bowl.

[B]

No, Never seen it. I think I'm not killing. No, you're killing.

[A]

You're killing. You're killing. How do you laugh on text?

[B]

Ha ha.

[A]

Just two.

[B]

No, no, I never do two. Two is wicked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would do one or four.

[A]

Oh, wow. Four is generous. That's nice. Well, I. I once.

[B]

I'm a laugher.

[A]

I once responded to my fiance with two ha's, and he's like, are you. Aren't you forgetting one?

[B]

I have a thing recently where over text someone, like, I'll write like, can't wait. Like, I'll see that I did to you the other day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

See you at the podcast. Can't wait. Sometimes people are like, when you wrote can't wait, I was worried.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Like, it was like, hyperbolic in a way that's not sincere. But it's like. No, it actually is sincere. I can't. I don't know.

[A]

That's wild. I didn't think now. I didn't even realize that was something I needed to worry about. Okay, add it to the list.

[B]

You wrote on your substack quote. I have.

[A]

You are digging deep. This feels like it was.

[B]

This is a gotcha interview.

[A]

This is a gotcha.

[B]

This is a gotcha interview. This is the takedown. They're not going to be having the pie tasting event this week. That's going to be canceled, Joe, because we're going to release this in little dribs and drabs in a way that people are slowly realizing you are not as nice as you seem.

[A]

I'm not nice. I've been telling people I'm not nice.

[B]

You got to spread the word on that because everyone thinks you're nice.

[A]

You're nice.

[B]

I'm all right. Nice.

[A]

You're pretty nice.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

I would say that I'm not nice, but I have a. I have a high voice.

[B]

I've never seen you not be nice.

[A]

I'm not nice.

[B]

This is a bogus claim.

[A]

Watch this. Say hi to me.

[B]

Hey, Joe. For the. For the audio listeners, that was just some kind of, like, weird, begrudging smile.

[A]

They got it. They know. You know, these people are listening with their eyes.

[B]

Joe Firestone wrote on her substack quote, I have started drinking Five caffeines a day, four coffees and one soda. I think I'll stop once a tooth falls out, but for now, it's what I most look forward to. Without all five, my head starts to ache and my personality becomes someone who nods but doesn't speak. My favorite is Phil's Coffee because their coffee drinks tastes like liquid cookies. I take a big sip, and then I got to run around the room. I'm just so jazzed. And the question is, what are you hiding from?

[A]

See, this is when I was working.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

When I was working.

[B]

Yeah. On After Midnight.

[A]

Yeah. It was a beautiful job with beautiful people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For me, I was so stressed out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was drinking five coffees a day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I was listening to a lot of that music that's like, you're gonna have a good day today. Today's gonna be the best one yet. And it's, like, really upbeat.

[B]

Do you know what I mean? No, I don't know what you're talking about.

[A]

It's, like, inspired by Lizzo.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it's like, today wasn't good, but tomorrow's gonna be better.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I mean, I'll take your word for it.

[A]

And I crashed my car while that was playing.

[B]

Oh, God. You crashed your car to a Lizzo ripoff so bad. At least it would have some pride if it was to Lizzo. It wasn't listening, but it was a ripoff.

[A]

I couldn't believe it. It was that crunching sound over the. I was like, this is not gonna be a good day. It was not a good day.

[B]

Your backup dancers must have been furious at you.

[A]

But I just. It's just like. I just. I found it to be so stressful every day. I was so stressed out just with.

[B]

That particular job, the After Midnight job.

[A]

And I was stressed out to be in la. I was stressed out driving.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I would buy the writer's lunch on Friday.

[B]

That's nice. Wow.

[A]

Sure. Nice. I would go to pick up. I would go to pick up lunch. Lunch. And it was 11 people, so it was heavy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd go to pick it up at the front gate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes I'd get the golf cart to go pick it up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. And one day I was just not in a good mood, and I guess I drove on the wrong area.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I was picked. The police, the Paramount police got a picture of me.

[B]

Oh, the Paramount studio.

[A]

And they were circulating it, saying, who is this woman?

[B]

Really?

[A]

Let me show you this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So people, they put up A sign saying, have you seen this woman?

[A]

Yeah. And no one recognized me because I looked so bad.

[B]

Oh, gosh. Was it like a surveillance photo, still image kind of thing? Because you drove the cart on the wrong side.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wow. Okay.

[A]

Oh, I found it. Okay, here we go. Look at this.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Isn't that.

[B]

I mean, this is crazy. Should we get this in? This camera right here? Wow. You're gonna have to send me that. We're gonna put that on Instagram.

[A]

I couldn't believe that. That's what I.

[B]

Mind if we put that on Instagram? Yeah. Did they find you?

[A]

No, because they sent it to the office manager, and they're like, who is this? And they're like, we don't know. That might be some kind of rogue pa. Wow. Was that worth it?

[B]

Yeah, I think that was worth it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Okay, this is the slow round.

[A]

Oh, you know, people usually say lightning round.

[B]

No, no, this is the opposite slow, slow round.

[A]

You do what you want to do.

[B]

What's something you believed 10 years ago that you don't believe now?

[A]

When you were. 10 years ago? 2015.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that maybe. I think that I believed comedy is my life. And now I'm like, that's. I don't. I don't know her.

[B]

I don't know her.

[A]

I don't have that hustle.

[B]

That's interesting. You lost the hustle.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

Do you remember when you lost the hustle?

[A]

I would say that it was kind. I would say over the 20. 20, 20, 21.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And where I was like, oh, you know what? I could just stay home and make little. Read and write.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm mostly.

[B]

It was like, you were allowed to be an introvert.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you're like, oh, yeah, I kind of like being an introvert.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. What's a nickname you've been given that was particularly bad or good?

[A]

Oh, I used to have. I used to dye my hair red.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I found out that people at my college had been calling me the girl with the Ronald McDonald hair.

[B]

Oh, God. The girl with the Ronald McDonald hair.

[A]

And then I used to work at this restaurant, and they called me Little piece of Crap.

[B]

What?

[A]

That was why. That was their nickname.

[B]

Why would they do that?

[A]

They'd be like, little piece of crab. You got a four.

[B]

No, four top. No.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It was a restaurant.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did they meet it, like, affectionately, like.

[A]

No.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you. They hated you? Did you. Was it a hostile relationship?

[A]

No, no, no. It was pretty good. But I think that that's. And Then I tried to get Meatball started for a bit.

[B]

Oh, you tried to get that going? You thought that would be a good nickname for you. I'll call you that. Meatball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, next one. Meatball, what's a song that makes you cry?

[A]

Oh, I love that. I think it's pronounced siffy song. That's on the telephone.

[B]

On the telephone.

[A]

I tried to call you.

[B]

You know that one?

[A]

You don't know that song?

[B]

Gary, do you know that one? Bless the telephone.

[A]

Yes. Bless the telephone. That's it.

[B]

That makes you cry.

[A]

It's so sweet. It's so sweet.

[B]

Bless the telephone.

[A]

It's so sweet.

[B]

I gotta listen to that one.

[A]

It's a sweet one. You're gonna love it. You love sweet stuff.

[B]

Okay. Support for working it out comes from Mint Mobile. It is summertime. Let's go over your guest list for your big summer barbecue. Friends, family, neighbors, your old wireless bill. No way. Not invited. Get out of here. Old wireless bill. Don't let your old expensive wireless bill crash your summer party. Switch to Mint Mobile. Save some cash. With Mint Mobile, you can get the coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less money. And for a limited time, Mint mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for $15 a month. This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your 3 month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com burbigs that's mintmobile.com burbigs upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to 15 bucks a month limited time. New customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Support for working it out comes from Quince. You know when a new shirt becomes your go to. That's what happened when I picked up a few new things from Quince. They are the first things I reach for in my closet. They're lightweight and comfortable. I got a really comfortable European linen, relaxed shirt. I love it. Why drop a fortune on basics when you don't have to? Quince has the good stuff. High quality fabrics, classic fits, lightweight layers for warm weather. All at prices that make sense. The best part about Quince is everything is half the cost of similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quint gives you the luxury pieces without the markup. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. Keep it classic. And cool with long lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.comperbigs for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com bigs to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comigs support for working it out comes from Helix. I love my Helix mattress. If I could bring it on tour with me, oh man, I would love that. I don't think I could get it on a plane, but if I could, I would bring it out there because, man, I stay in a lot of hotels where I'm like, man, I wish I had my Helix mattress with me. And I'm talking major hotels, two and three star hotels. I don't know about you, but I feel much better during the day when I get a good night's sleep. It's summertime, it's hot. Doesn't matter how comfortable your mattress might be, if you're sweating in your sleep every night. Cooling is essential to a restful night's sleep. You want a cool mattress, look no further than Helix. Try Helix's own Glaciotex cooling cover or waterproof mattress protector. Glaciotex cooling fabric uses fibers with high thermal conductivity to allow heat to be quickly and effectively pulled away from your body while you sleep. Go to helixsleep.com burbigs for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com brabigs for 20% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name working it out after checkout. So they know that we sent you helixsleep.com4bigs. All right, this is. We can work on material. If you have any material that's sort of half baked, you can throw in the mix. I had this thing. I don't know if you have this with your fiance, but it's like I feel like falling in love is a shocking thing in life because you kind of like lose control like your whole life. You have like plans and goals and dreams and then you fall in love and you're like, or whatever you want to do. You know what I mean? And it was interesting because this is a controversial take around my apartment because Jenny saw me talk about this on stage. She was like, that's what you think happened? Like, we've spent the last 20 years doing exactly what you want to do. And therein lies the complexity of relationships when people have two different perspectives on identical events.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we're both right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you know, a lot of times people are doing what the other person wants to do simultaneously. Those things aren't connecting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do. And it's 20 years later and no one's done what anyone wants to do.

[A]

It's. Yeah.

[B]

And then sometimes I say on stage, like. So I'm telling you, if this feels familiar, which it usually does. You gotta start doing what somebody wants to do because you're running out of time.

[A]

Wow. That's like. That. This is like the best life hack. If you're going on vacation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With your couple, with your person, or whatever, you split up every other day. So it's like one day you make all the decisions.

[B]

Oh, that's really good.

[A]

And then the next day they make all the decisions.

[B]

Because that's what you do with Mike.

[A]

Yeah. Because otherwise you do that with all.

[B]

The mics I've done.

[A]

But it's like that's. It's like you can't. Otherwise you'll be like you're hungry and you're tired and you don't want to make. But it's like, if you know that this is your day.

[B]

Oh, that's great.

[A]

But maybe you should do that with years.

[B]

Years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, like, I'll do 2026. You do 2027, I'll do 2028.

[A]

Well, I was like, Mike likes to pick where we live.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'm kind of like, okay, let's go along with it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I like old stuff and he likes new stuff.

[B]

Okay. You like vintage things? Sure, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And so then it's kind of like each time we kind of end up finding a place that's like.

[B]

That seems pretty good.

[A]

Built in the 1980s.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's okay.

[B]

You split the difference. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But I get to pick up an apartment in la, and I. And I picked a. I picked one of the oldest ones I've ever seen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Old.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

They had one of these things in the bathroom with a little switch that it's like heats.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like a heat in the wall.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Have you seen this?

[B]

No. No. I don't know this.

[A]

It's like a heat coils.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I guess, like, if you get out of the shower and you're cold, you put on these. It's very old.

[B]

I know nothing of this.

[A]

It smells like the heat coils.

[B]

Do you touch them?

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Do you put a towel on them?

[A]

No, no, it's, like, protected by a grate.

[B]

Okay, so it's heat.

[A]

Thermidor.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's heat. Yeah, I guess it's heat, if you want to put it that way.

[B]

Do you have any bits you're working on that are kind of half complete?

[A]

Well, I guess I'm working on this. I'm working on this mystery book, and I'm trying to come up with names.

[B]

Okay, Jacques.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

Terrence. Right now I got Ted Balosi, Ted Pelosi's kid.

[A]

And then he works for a woman named Darla Plankton.

[B]

Perfect. I know her already. Say no more.

[A]

Darla Plankton doesn't sound.

[B]

I feel like Darla Plankton is a little bit of a. Of your. Of the. You avatar in the book. Can you think of Darla Plankton?

[A]

Can you think of a better.

[B]

Yeah, I couldn't think of a better name for you than Darla Plankton.

[A]

Can you think of a better last name? It's so hard to come up with names.

[B]

Oh, Darla Plankton is perfect.

[A]

No, I need a last name. That's normal.

[B]

No, it's great. That is normal. Darla Plankton. That's fantastic. You should call the book Darla Plankton. I feel like there could be 10 mystery novels with Darla Plankton as the. As the lead. Do you have any. Are you doing any jokes right now, though? Like, what's that first joke you do in that show where you were like, it bombed? And then I do this other thing.

[A]

I think I tried to do the joke. I tried to do the joke about being short and ugly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I tried to do.

[B]

Oh, that was that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then I tried to do the.

[B]

LA joke that you're the shortest person.

[A]

Shortest ugliest person in la. In la.

[B]

Okay. And didn't get any laughs. You get. They kind of gave you this look like, oh, we feel bad for you. Like, we feel bad that you're talking about this.

[A]

It was like, oh, yeah.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But maybe, like, a way to be inclusive with. That would be like, don't feel bad for me. You know what I mean? Like, if you feel that, be like, don't feel bad for me. If you were there, you would also be the shortest, ugliest person in Los Angeles. We would be the short ugly army. We shall go together to Los Angeles en masse, and then we won't feel bad about it anymore.

[A]

That's a really good approach. Yeah. Get them all in there. All the shooting.

[B]

The short ugly army.

[A]

Yeah. I Know if you're at this show, you're short and ugly as well. That's what's drawing you here.

[B]

That's my demographics.

[A]

That could be good. That could be really good. Then we could stack on top of each other. Do a slam dunk.

[B]

Stack on top of each other and do a slam dunk.

[A]

It could be good.

[B]

Yes. Okay, so we have the joke about New York L. A. At the beginning. Are there any other jokes at the beginning?

[A]

Basically. Okay, so there's something that I'm trying to work, but I don't think this is. Because I don't. I'm never gonna do standup. Okay. But this is. So basically I told my fiance, I called him when I finished the Mentalist.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was so thrilled because you completed.

[B]

The show the Mentalist.

[A]

I called and I was like, I finished the Mentalist. And he goes, good job, good job. And that. It felt so bad.

[B]

Why? Because you felt like he didn't get you?

[A]

I just felt like if that's what.

[B]

I'm right, if that's your accomplishment, if.

[A]

That'S what I did to get good job.

[B]

If you set your sights higher.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

Good job.

[A]

But that was tough to get the good job.

[B]

Good job. It's so funny you keep saying you don't do standup, but you're beloved.

[A]

No, I don't. I'm not. You know when there's a fresh. There's a pizza place.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And there's a fresh juicy cheese pizza.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's big and round, it's hot right out of the oven. And you're like, can I get a slice of cheese?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they pull out from under.

[B]

Awful.

[A]

Under a drawer.

[B]

It's devastating.

[A]

Some kind of. I mean, wooden plank that's covered in. And you think, well, what about this?

[B]

What about the new fresh one?

[A]

But we gotta get rid of this.

[B]

Oh God.

[A]

And they heat it up and it's fine. It's fine. You know, you forget about it. So basically, I think it's kind of like for me, I feel like I'm that old slice.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just don't think that's true.

[A]

And I think that people. There's fresh. Like if, if I was going to union. Like if I was going to union hall, it'd be like, union hall. Look at these. This hot pizza.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then they're like, actually, look what we got. Look what you're getting today. And I just, I feel like not all. It's like. I think it's good. I think it's Good to have older comedians, younger comedians, all ages. But for me, personally, I just. I'm like that. I think I probably. It's probably not where I'm supposed to be. It's like, you know, I used to think, oh, I love. I love improv. Let me take all the classes. I'll be improviser.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Turns out I just liked improv.

[B]

Like to watch it, right?

[A]

Same with musicals. I don't want to sing in dance. Turns out I can't just like to watch them. You know what I mean? And so maybe it's the same with comedy where I'm like, I think that I really like being a fan. I like seeing other people's stuff.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Does that mean I need to go out there and do it? No. I don't know. Yeah, but some people need to get out there and do it. I think you need to get out there and do it. I think you're gonna be doing it to your dying day.

[B]

Oh, wow. Maybe. I don't know.

[A]

You don't think so?

[B]

No idea.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think that. I think that the. I think the specials are gonna evolve, but I think that they're the. It's gonna stay. Stay tight.

[B]

Wow. But you. You think the thing for you is mystery novels?

[A]

Unfortunately, I'm not great at those either. But I. I think. I think I'll get there. Like, I re. I shouldn't have read a review.

[B]

Oh, it was a bad review.

[A]

The review said, this is the dumbest book I've ever read.

[B]

It said that? The review said that?

[A]

Yeah. This review said this is the dumbest book I've ever read.

[B]

Was it in a publication?

[A]

The New Yorker.

[B]

The New Yorker said that. Wow. But dumb as book. I disagree.

[A]

But it's.

[B]

It's, you know, wait till they read Lisa Plankton. Lisa. Is it Lisa Plankton.

[A]

Darla Plankton.

[B]

Darla Plankton. Much better. All right, well, the last thing is working it out for a cause. Is there a non profit that you like to contribute to? We will contribute to them and then we'll link to them in the show notes so that others can contribute.

[A]

I would have to say, you know, I'm. I always like. I always like what they're doing at the Ali Fournet Center.

[B]

Ali Fournet Center. I'm gonna look it up just so that we get a proper.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

A proper link.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

The Ali Fournet center transforming lives. Aliefournacenter.org the Ali Fournet center was founded in 2002 in memory of Ali Forney A homeless gender non conforming youth who is forced to live on the streets where they were tragically murdered. Committed to saving the lives of LGBTQ+ and at risk young people. Our mission is to protect them from the harms of homelessness and empower them with the tools needed to live independently.

[A]

Can I tell you something?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That and I stand by this organization. But I used to do this stand up show at Housing Works and before the events, before every standup show at Housing Works, they would say the mission statement, which is basically about how they're helping people with hiv, AIDS and homelessness. And it depressed people.

[B]

I know so much. True.

[A]

Even though they were there to see.

[B]

Yeah. Nonprofit events is tricky because you always have to describe what the thing is and it's like challenging issues.

[A]

And every single show I was like, this is gonna be. I always thought, could we maybe skip the mission statement? And they're like, that's the whole point of the show. And I said, you're right, you're right. Fair enough. And every time it was an uphill. Ooh, it was uphill.

[B]

Yeah. We will contribute to aliefournaycenter.org we'll link to them in the show notes and encourage people to contribute as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Joe Firestone, thanks for being here. This is awesome. Thanks for having me.

[A]

Wow. Beautiful.

[B]

Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no one that's going to do it for another episode of Working Out. You can get Jo Firestone's book Murder on Sex island at your local bookstore. Check out her website, joefirestone.com for her upcoming shows. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube page, ikeverbiglia. Subscribe. We're almost at the 60,000 subscriber mark, which means I'm a. I think it means I'm a YouTube star. I'm pretty sure that's what it's called. Subscribe because we are posting more and more videos. Don't miss that. Check out burrbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list and be first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mix by Shubh Sarin. Supervising engineer, Kate Balinsky. Special thanks as always to Jack Antonov and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein. We have a show called Jokes and Poems that's going to be at Joe's Pub in New York City soon in September. Sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about that. Special thanks as always, to our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most to all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this show, and I really mean this, go on Apple Podcast and rate and review us. I think you can actually do it also on Spotify now. You can put. At very least you can put a comment now underneath the episode. That's what I've just found out. But if you put a little thing on Apple Podcasts, it really helps us out because people don't know where to begin. We have over 180 episodes, all free. No paywall. We've had Jane Wickline and Leva Pierce and Chelsea Handler and Alex Edelman and Bob Odenkirk and Kumail. What was your favorite episode? It's really helpful for people who just found the podcast. I always have that. You know, the reason I always say that is that I'll find a new podcast, right? Like, I'll find Song Exploder, for example. That's a podcast I like. And I'll go, okay, I like this, but like, which are the ones that are the ones, you know, Radiolab. I'll go, like, I love this podcast, but which are the ones that are the ones for all time? And that's actually really helpful when you find a podcast that you like, which are the ones thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, text your co workers and use the proper language. Send a text that says, hey, you gotta check out this podcast. Mike Birbiglia is working it out. Or wio, where Mike Birbiglia talks about the creative process with other comedians. It made me ijball. That's right, IDJ Ball. Not T Job Dobo. Not lol. It's a podcast called wio and it makes me ijball. Thanks everybody for working it out. We'll see you next time.