205. Taylor Tomlinson: Hope No One Filmed That

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out

Episode 205 – Taylor Tomlinson: Hope No One Filmed That

Release Date: March 9, 2026
Guest: Taylor Tomlinson
Host: Mike Birbiglia

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Overview

In this engaging episode, comedian Mike Birbiglia welcomes back Taylor Tomlinson for her third appearance. Fresh off her new Netflix special, Prodigal Daughter, Taylor and Mike dive deep into the process of creating personal material, navigating taboos, comedy's relationship with truth, evolving as a performer, and wrestling with fame. The conversation fluidly moves from joke mechanics to vulnerable life moments, sprinkled with memorable confessions and riffing on half-formed bits. For anyone interested in the intersection of personal growth and the craft of standup, this episode delivers abundant insight with trademark warmth, humor, and honesty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Creating Personal Comedy & Navigating Raw Material

• Opening Premise: Taylor admits the risk of sharing material that's still emotionally raw, mentioning moments where she thinks, “I just told 300 people, and I hope no one filmed it.” (00:00, 17:00)
  • Quote: “You ever do a bit about something personal … and you realize while they're laughing, oh, I'm not ready to talk about this yet?” – Taylor (00:00)
• Taylor’s process:
  • She collects notes on her phone, filters them in a notebook, and expands on promising ideas (03:22).
  • Sometimes, she distances herself with “a friend said” as a device if she’s not ready for full self-exposure (04:47).
  • The importance of matching truthfulness with stage presence: being honest about feelings, not just facts (18:13).

2. Joke Construction and the Truth Code

• Example Bit Exploration: Taylor details how a real relationship question (“If you found out we were cousins, would you break up with me?”) became a bit, and the differences between real-life reactions and responses on stage (04:21–06:37).
  • Quote: “That joke specifically, that was something I really asked a boyfriend. That's, like, completely, 100% true.” – Taylor (04:47)
• The tension in comedy between bending the truth for a premise and maintaining authenticity (04:47, 18:01).

3. Family, Religion, and Performing for Personal Audiences

• Taylor’s family’s varied relationship to her work:
  • Her grandmother is supportive, while her father’s engagement is uncertain (09:01–10:03).
  • Discussing the challenge for comics from conservative backgrounds; balancing truthful self-expression with family dynamics.
• Growing up religious, performing at churches, and the residual guilt and shame around “dirty” material and breaking taboos (22:16, 31:04).
  • Quote: “There was a lot of responsibility placed on you as a girl to, like, not cause men and boys to stumble, which is so crazy.” – Taylor (31:46)
• The lasting impact of abstinence teachings on adulthood and relationships (32:26).

4. Evolving as a Comedian and Person

• Reflection on aging out of the “comedian prodigy” label, and how public perception lags behind personal growth (11:21–12:23).
• Both comics discuss how their parents don’t engage much with their material—and how that can feel both freeing and strange (09:48–10:12).
• Process of moving from young up-and-comer to being “a person who does this” (11:14).

5. Perceptions of Stand-up in the Entertainment Industry

• Taylor and Mike discuss the persistent lack of industry respect for stand-up, despite its difficulty and importance (13:39–14:50).
  • Quote: “There's a real lack of respect for standup…You just talk…It's so weird.” – Taylor (13:53)
• The weirdly “low class” nature of stand-up and why that means you have to truly love the work (15:06).
• The reality that small shows, open mics, and “working it out” is the core of the art form, even more so than playing large, notable venues (13:11–13:34).

6. Career Drive, Worry, and Imposter Syndrome

• Taylor’s advice to her younger self: “Double your meds.” (27:47)
• The paradox of whether worrying actually drives success, with both Taylor and Mike admitting that anxiety and a need to prove themselves have been highly motivating (28:35).
• The uncertain nature of career milestones and how their drive sometimes prevents fully enjoying success (29:01).

7. Material Swap: Joke Testing and Observational Riffs

• Both share and riff on unfinished jokes, giving listeners a unique backstage pass to comedic brainstorming.
  • Mike’s observations about sex dreams and the dominance of the word “it” (47:00–49:45).
  • Taylor’s material about dating as one gets older, making a list of qualities in herself as a partner (50:24–52:46), and the frustration with expectant parents keeping baby names secret (53:19–54:09).
    • Notable Joke Premise: “It really bothers me when people are pregnant and they won’t tell you the baby’s name…just tell me, I don’t care that much.” – Taylor (53:34)
  • Discussion on how early “I love you” declarations are only suspicious—unless you’re a celebrity (56:39–58:29).

8. Daydreams, Catastrophizing, and the Writer’s Mind

• Both comics confess to daydreaming mainly about their work or catastrophizing about hypothetical situations (42:00–44:11).
  • Quote: “Catastrophizing is like a big part of my daydreams.” – Mike (44:06)

9. Identity, Coolness, and Self-Image

• Taylor discusses envying people with effortlessly “cool” personalities or those who seem socially natural (37:08–38:47).
  • Candid reflection on self-deprecating thoughts and the constructed nature of the comic persona.

10. Working on a Cause

• Charity Highlighted: Taylor shouts out the Palestinian Children Relief Fund as her chosen nonprofit to support (59:18).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Starting Raw Bits on Stage:
  “You ever do a bit about something personal to you and it's working, but you realize while they're laughing, oh, I'm not ready to talk about this yet.” — Taylor (00:00)
• On Family Watching Her Specials:
  “You know who watched it the first day it came out? Is my grandma. And she texted me and she said, I watched your special last night and it was great. And I laughed a lot and Jesus loves you sweet.” — Taylor (09:01)
• Navigating Religion & Guilt:
  “There was like a lot of responsibility placed on you as a girl to, like, not cause men and boys to stumble, which is so crazy.” — Taylor (31:46)
• On Industry Respect & Stand-Up:
  “I spent half my life getting good at this thing that I think is, like, the hardest, best thing to do. And there's a lot of people in this business who are just like, oh, yeah, you just talk.” — Taylor (13:53)
• Career Anxiety as Motivation:
  “You should be so scared all the time. Stay on your toes.” — Taylor (28:54)
• On The Comic Persona vs. Real Life:
  “Yeah, I like her too. I've worked really hard on her. That's me at my best.” — Taylor (39:13)
• Riff on Baby Name Secrecy:
  “It really bothers me when people are pregnant and they won't tell you the baby's name…I probably won't see you. I'm not going to call all our mutuals and go, guess what?…Are you in the royal family and I don't realize it?” — Taylor (53:34–53:55)

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Important Timestamps

• Raw Bit/Emotional Exposure: 00:00, 17:00
• Material Creation Process: 03:22–04:47
• Detailed Exploration of the "Cousin" Bit: 04:14–07:00
• Family & Religion in Comedy: 09:01–10:17, 22:16–24:06, 31:04–36:47
• Industry View of Stand-Up: 13:39–15:21
• Imposter Syndrome & Drive: 27:47–29:01
• Mid-Episode Material Swap: 47:00–54:14
• Daydreaming & Catastrophizing: 42:00–44:11
• Comedy Persona vs. Real Self: 37:08–39:13
• Supporting Palestinian Children Relief Fund: 59:18

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Conclusion

Taylor Tomlinson and Mike Birbiglia’s conversation is a standout episode for fans of comedy, authenticity, and creative process. Their candid discussion covers everything from the technicality of joke writing, the struggle and responsibility of representing one’s upbringing, to the emotional labor of comedy, and the messiness of fame and self-perception. Their humor, honesty, and gentle self-mockery create an atmosphere as insightful as it is entertaining.

Charity Link: Palestinian Children Relief Fund

Watch Taylor's Netflix special: Prodigal Daughter

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Transcript

[A]

You ever do a bit about something personal to you and it's working, but you realize while they're laughing, oh, I'm not ready to talk about this yet. 100% and I just told 300 people and I hope no one filmed it.

[B]

That is the voice of the great Taylor Tomlinson. This is a really exciting episode. Taylor is back for her third appearance on this podcast. One of my favorite comics has a new special on Netflix right now called Prodigal Daughter. You should go watch it right now and then listen to this episode. You'll get more out of it. Always love talking to Taylor. We have a great chat today, by the way. Thanks to everyone who has signed up for Working It Out Premium on Apple Podcasts, AKA the Bilabilia Familia. And if you sign up on Apple Podcasts, it's five bucks a month and you get no ads on any of the episodes. Also, you get a bonus episode every few weeks and the one we put up recently is me and Gary and Mabel, two of our producers and I, taking apart one of my recent comedy seller sets. And we talk about ways to punch it up, where it could go from here, what I'll probably take out. And it's really, really in the weeds on kind of jokes. And, and honestly, like I've never released audio of unfinished work before, so it's. Yeah, it's an experiment working it out Premium on Apple Podcasts, no ads, bonus episodes. We really appreciate you supporting the show. I also have some tour dates coming up with John Mulaney in May. I'll be in Colorado Springs as well as Eugene, Oregon. Those are both super cool towns as well as Bend, Oregon. That's another super cool town. Again, I'm supporting John Mulaney on those dates. Also, I will be in Los Angeles one night only, May 6th at the Wilshire Ebel Theater. It's a beautiful little theater. It's Mike Birbiglia and friends. You'll basically see like my new 40, 45 minutes of material with some friends working out new jokes and it should be great. It should be a super, super fun night of comedy. So get your [e-mail] and if you want to be the first to know about any of my tour dates, you can sign up for my mailing list as per the last 20 years, but also have text message alerts. Text bz to 917-444-7150 bs to 917-444-7350 to be the first to know about upcoming shows. This is A great conversation with Taylor Tomlinson. Today. We talk about religion. Her special prodigal daughter deals with a lot of that stuff. She started doing comedy at the church. We talk about honesty and comedy. We talk about family. We talk about talking about your family on stage and how delicate that can be. Enjoy my conversation with the great Taylor Tomlinson. You're special. So good.

[A]

Thank you. That's really nice. And I do care about your opinion. I do. There's not a lot of people.

[B]

You are one of the people.

[A]

I was like, I don't like it. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, it's great. I mean, it's. It's like a master class in. In joke writing. Like, oh, my God, I think so.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Do you free write? Like, do you. Do you go, okay, I'm gonna spend a half hour today with a notebook.

[A]

What I do is I will have ideas throughout the day for weeks or whatever.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But I usually have ideas that I'll write in, like, a note on my phone, and then those will sort of accumulate, and then when I have a minute, I will write them all down in a notebook, and then I'll go through all of those. Like, it's usually just one line or, like, one idea, and then I'll go through all of those and whittle it down to stuff that I think I can expand upon.

[B]

What passes the test. Like, for example, you have a joke in your special about essentially being a toxic girlfriend in a relationship for, like, 10 years or your 20s or whatever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But it's like, how do you. With that bit. How do you go, like, from. That's an idea I'm thinking about to like, I'm going to throw that on stage.

[A]

Is that the Ashes one?

[B]

It's the one where you go. I wrote down the exact.

[A]

Or was it the. Oh, was it the cousin fight?

[B]

Here's my favorite line. I was laying on the couch with my boyfriend, and we weren't fighting, and I thought that was weird.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

That's like one of my favorite lines in the special.

[A]

Really?

[B]

That was weird. I thought that was weird. So I said, if you found out we were cousins, would you break up with me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was just thinking, like, a couple questions about that. One is like, how do you go? Okay, that's a bit.

[A]

And.

[B]

And then also, like, what's the truth level? What's your truth code on your own jokes?

[A]

Well, I think the most that I will bend the truth is if I want to talk about something that happened to me, but I don't want to say it was me. I'll say it happened to a friend or a friend of mine said that. Yeah, a friend. A friend has gotten me through a lot of premises I wanted to do, of course. And a friend said this. And it's just in your own brain. But that joke specifically, that was something I really asked a boyfriend. That's, like, completely, 100% true. And I did text a bunch of my friends, and they all said, well, do we have to tell anybody?

[B]

Do we have to tell anybody?

[A]

And I said, no. And they said, okay, well, then we wouldn't have kids, but we wouldn't break up and we wouldn't tell anybody. And I texted, like, three.

[B]

That's the majority of what people said.

[A]

I texted three, my three closest friends who were all engaged or married. And that's what they all said. Not one person said, you know what that tells me?

[B]

It's hard out there.

[A]

It's hard out there. But then the next weekend, like, a couple days later, I was at the airport with Dustin. We were going on the road, and I told him about that fight, and I go, how crazy is this? Cause Dustin's been married to Melissa for

[B]

20 years and tours with you a lot.

[A]

And tours with me a lot greater. Dustin Nickerson, very funny. And he goes, you're so wrong about this. Don't ever say that on stage. That's hilarious. He goes, you're so wrong. I go, you're telling me that if you found out Melissa was your cousin, you have three kids, they're all fine. You find out right now.

[B]

That's interesting.

[A]

You would divorce her? He goes, absolutely. I go, what if you found out she was a murderer? And he goes, she had her reasons. I go, that's fine. You're okay if she's a murderer.

[B]

That's interesting.

[A]

He goes, yeah, I'd go visit her in jail. I'm sure she has a good explanation for it. But he was so not on board with the cousin thing. And so then I wanted to prove to Dustin that it would work on stage, and I wanted to see what other people would think. So then I put it on stage, and when it worked, I was like,

[B]

I told you, he's also dodging with the murderer thing, I think, because he's like, I'd visit her in jail. No, she's not in jail. In the scenario, she's out and living with you, and it's your secret that she is a murderer.

[A]

But that's the thing. He would turn her in. He goes, I would.

[B]

No, he would.

[A]

He goes, I would Turn her in. But I would visit her.

[B]

I call bullshit on that.

[A]

I know that's what he said, that he might change.

[B]

He would turn her in.

[A]

He might have changed his mind by now. This was. This was a couple years ago.

[B]

But we will hold him to. We will be holding him to it. So. Okay. It's funny, the cousin thing.

[A]

Yeah. Real fight. I mean, that's the thing. You don't know. I'm not saying if you meet someone and find out they're your cousin.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of course you break up then. Of course. But if you're in love and you've

[B]

been together for a while, and to be clear, a lot of cousin couples out there.

[A]

There's a lot of them. There really is. And we don't want to lose that audience. And you know what? And this is my bad for asking someone I had only been with, like, six months or something. I hadn't been with that person for that long. So he was right to be like, we would break up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I think I just knew that person probably didn't like me as much as I liked them, and so I was just testing it.

[B]

I like that. I like that. One of the reasons I like that area in the special is, like. It's an admission.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, what do you think is the most toxic thing you did in those years in a relationship?

[A]

Oh, my gosh. So many things.

[B]

Is there anything you couldn't even make into a bit? Because there's no humor in it.

[A]

In my 20s.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I, like, don't even know where to. I mean, the most toxic thing I did, and I did this in multiple relationships is I would break up with people a lot and then get back together. I did that. I did that in, like, two relationships in my 20s. Like, two of my, like, longest, most significant relationships I was breaking up and getting back together.

[B]

Fear of abandonment.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Fear that they would do it to you.

[A]

Yeah. I think just, like, fearful, avoidant type of stuff. And it's something I'm really embarrassed about, but I. I definitely did it over and over.

[B]

Your dad doesn't watch your stuff? Not that I don't think.

[A]

I have no idea.

[B]

You're not. Right. You don't know.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know.

[B]

I bet he secretly does.

[A]

I have no idea.

[B]

If I was estranged from my daughter and she was making these big comedy specials, I feel like I'd peek.

[A]

You know, there's. I'd peek. That's funny. You know who watched it the first day it came out? Is my grandma. And, and she texted me and she said, I watched your special last night and it was great. And I laughed a lot and Jesus loves you sweet. And she said, sorry, I couldn't help it. And I thought that was so nice.

[B]

And he does.

[A]

And he does.

[B]

Yeah. And supposedly, I mean, I know of

[A]

course, again, we're not trying to lose any part of the audience.

[B]

This is not fact checked, but when

[A]

I was at her house the last time visiting her, we were going through Netflix trying to watch something. And my last special was in her, like recently watched. It was like five deep. And I was like, oh my gosh, you watched it? She goes, yeah, of course. I've watched it a couple times. And I was like. And I just don't. You know, you never know with your family.

[B]

That is true.

[A]

Especially when they're like more conservative. Who's to say if they want to see that? Like, I don't think my grandpa's watched all of them. I think he's seen clips. But it's. It's not like I'm offended by that. It's just not his thing.

[B]

No, totally. That's how I feel about my parents. They don't really watch my stuff. And I'm like, yeah, it's not their sense of humor. Not really, no.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Not really, no.

[A]

That's interesting because you're classier than I am. I'm not classy as a comedian.

[B]

I don't think I'm classier. I don't think I'm classier. But I think like, I think it's just too. And no pun intended, it's too close to home. Like, it's just about my growing, me growing up and all that. It's just like. I don't know, you're like a grown up now though. You, when you.

[A]

I know, crazy.

[B]

When I met you, you were kind of a kid.

[A]

100%. When did I meet you?

[B]

I mean, so early. I just remember when you, I mean, your first special, you were like 24, right?

[A]

I was 25. I was 26 when it came out.

[B]

Right. Quarter life, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's, it is funny.

[B]

But you're a kid.

[A]

I was a kid, yeah.

[B]

25 or 25 years old. I think we met them.

[A]

32 is like a person.

[B]

Yeah, 32 is a full person.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like the same.

[B]

Is everyone now you're this.

[A]

It's really cool.

[B]

That's right. Not statistically, but I know what you mean.

[A]

Yeah, it's really, it's really nice because I think I always kind of felt in my head and heart that I was like 30 and then I hit 30 and I was like, oh, it all matches.

[B]

Well, it's funny. Like, you, you were a kind. You were a prodigy of sorts. And now you're a person who does this, right?

[A]

Yeah. Well, it's so funny because there'll still be comments about my age in articles and stuff where people go, young upcoming person, they'll go, oh, and she's only 32 and she has this many Netflix specials. You know, like, people still, they wanna reference your age for as long as it's surprising compared to the amount of success you have.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[A]

You know what I mean? I'm sure you've had this too since you got on Letterman so early.

[B]

They tried to run with that with me and it never stuck.

[A]

It never stuck.

[B]

They're this young guy. You've never heard of him. You still haven't heard of him. That. That was the narrative, was it? It never. Yeah, it never went wide.

[A]

I heard. Well, I was telling you before we got on that I just listened to your Leanne Morgan episode and she said something about, oh, I wish I had popped when I was younger. And you said, same here, any day now. And that was a joke, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're not like, I haven't made it.

[B]

No, I'm joking.

[A]

Okay, good.

[B]

Joking to an extent. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm good, I'm good.

[A]

Okay, great. I was like, you know, you're a big comedian, right, Mike? Cause sometimes people don't see themselves clearly in this business. And I would hope. And it's nothing is more upsetting than when people you look up to as like one of the people is like, yeah. And I'm just not quite. Didn't quite get the things I wanted and I'm not quite where I want to be. And you're like, oh, no.

[B]

Yeah, no, no. Right.

[A]

Goes away.

[B]

Well, it. Well, a, I'll answer that in two parts. A, it does never go away. Oh, no. But B, I think that the, the realization, you know, at 47 is just like, you start to go like, oh, the little shows are the shows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? You go to the Comedy Cellar and you do a few 15 minute sets and go, this is it.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It's not necessarily The Chicago theater, 3,000 people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or Carnegie Hall. Like it actually is, you know, it could be a little bar show with 15, 20 people. It's like. No, that's it. Yes, that's actually it. That's not preparation for something else. That is the thing.

[A]

Yeah. That's why I've been so excited to come back and talk to you, because I'm like, we're going to talk about stand up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[A]

And I just feel like. I mean, did you see that Jason Zinneman article that came out after they gave the Golden Globe to Ricky Gervais?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was interesting. I thought about how it was. Like, there's a lack of respect for standup.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I really feel that way. I think there's a real lack of respect for standup. And it's so weird to be like, I spent my whole. I spent half my life getting good at this thing that I think is, like, the hardest, best thing to do. And there's a lot of people in this business who are just like, oh, yeah, you just talk. Okay. Well, we. You know, it's like, so weird.

[B]

It's just. That's always been baked in, though. Like, when I came up in the 90s, I would say there was even less respect.

[A]

Oh, of course. There's, like, more respect than there's ever been.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I'm still like, do you guys know how hard this is and how impressive this is and how lucrative this is if you get good at it? Like, it's so interesting to me, the things that people place value on in, like, show business.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And just the seeing how much money people spend on people's perception of them.

[B]

Well, they place value on visibility.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And visibility is kind of worthless, but

[A]

the right kind of visibility, because if you're going viral all the time for doing standup, they're not necessarily placing a lot of value on that.

[B]

Oh, you're right. That's true.

[A]

Visibility at the right places. That's looking the right way.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's weird. It's like, in some ways, I like that our profession is low class.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you have to really like it.

[A]

You do have to really like it.

[B]

Because otherwise, what do you like? What's the point?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You have to like, what the. What's happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which some days you don't, but I don't. I mean, do you. You ever have days where you go, what am I? What is this? Exactly?

[A]

I think I have days that I feel like going on stage in front of people is kind of crazy.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Oh, what are you doing up here exactly? Like, I feel like that, but I always like doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that thing you're talking about of, oh, me on stage doing 15 minutes when I came up with an idea at 4 o' clock and now I'm trying it at 8 and it's kind of working and I'm figuring it out. Like when you see people who get big as standups or even do standup for a little while and then become actors or whatever else and get into other things, you go, oh, I guess they didn't like that part.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Cause this is the part I like.

[B]

I had one the other night where I was doing a set and someone walked out.

[A]

During your set. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You sure it was your fault?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Cause they talked to the manager. They didn't complain about me. They were just like sensitive subject. Oh, what was what I'm going through? I don't want to say. It's like, you could guess it's one of like four topics where people are going through the thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's like, it's hard because you just go like, I stand by it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But also they're not wrong.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that is a challenging thing about being a stand up. I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that you actually are intentionally talking about taboo things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so sometimes you're like, oh my God, I'm the person talking about this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is crazy.

[A]

Yeah. You ever do a bit about something personal to you and it's working, but you realize while they're laughing, oh, I'm not ready to talk about this yet. 100 and I just told 300 people and I hope no one filmed it. But like I said, something really, that's really personal. Yeah. And it works. And it's unfortunate that I can't do this joke yet a lot of times.

[B]

Jen, my wife Jenny's a poet and she always describes those as like, write them in the notebook.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Come back in 10 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because usually like your life shifts and that. And then that was in the past and the people are different and they've. They're on the other side of it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's like. Yeah, there's. I have a lot of those. Yeah, I have a lot of those. Like, I mean, like, I think one of the best pieces of advice I've heard about stand up is tell the truth. Because I feel like when you're telling the truth, the jokes part figures itself out.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important. Even more important than getting all the details of a story. Right. It's important to be representing how you actually feel about something.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Which the reason I thought you were talking about the ashes joke in the special Is. Cause halfway through that joke, the first half of the joke is, you know, I wouldn't want. If I was married to someone who had a dead spouse, I wouldn't want their ashes in our house, like, all the time. And then halfway through the joke, I go, I don't really feel that way anymore. I felt that way when I was younger.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I was. The joke worked, so I wanted to keep doing it, but I was like, this isn't true to who I am anymore. This is just a funny thought I had when I was much younger that I've turned into a bit. But it's not who I am. So then I had to write a joke about how it wasn't how I felt anymore.

[B]

Exactly. I think that's a great idea.

[A]

Yeah. And it turned into, like, one of my favorite jokes in the special because. And all because I was like, well, I can't lie. I can't misrepresent myself.

[B]

I think that's great. And, yeah, I love that joke. And I like. I love that idea. And joke writing is like. And even just in storytelling, like, Ira Glass always says this thing, which is like, what's the story? And then how do you feel about the story? And it's like, when I get stuck on a bit, it's like, well, how do I feel about the thing?

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

I guess for point, it's like, well, if you don't feel a certain way about it, then kind of, who cares? Why should they care about it?

[A]

Right.

[B]

If you don't care about it.

[A]

And that's like, a great way to come up with material when you're stuck. I feel like. Is you just go, what do I feel really strongly about?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Big or small? But going back to what you said about, like, oh, this on a Tuesday night, doing 50 minutes is the thing. I said this to someone. I was doing some interview about something, and I think I even said I was like, this is like, my least favorite part. Like, putting out the special.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this is kind of like, it's still fun, but it's the worst part of the whole process. And the best part is right after you're done promoting the thing you did, and now you get to start over with nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just go up and be like, is this. Is this something? Okay, kind of chuckle. All right.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And then like, the high of doing a new hour for the first time and being like, oh, my gosh, it's coming together. And it's like, that's the best part. Up until you're Kind of on autopilot for like the last couple months before you tape.

[B]

Yeah, the first part. The first part is like a high wire act.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the second part is like, there's a net. The wire is secure.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You're like, yeah, I'm walking across this thing. Do you ever have people walk out of your shows? Because I feel like you talk about religion so much, you're not disrespectful, but it definitely like rides the line.

[A]

Right. And I mean those early, like, I remember I was working this hour out in Vegas when I was like, when I had like 40 minutes, you know, and like, I think we did have people walk out of that. Cause it was like, you know, is older people at a casino is pretty conservative and like, honestly. Sure. I get that. This isn't, you know, this isn't what you thought. You maybe saw my face and went, oh, you're on cbs like at the time. Like, I get it. You know, it can't be.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

Can't be mad about it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And yeah, it's. I think my last hour was a lot broader. And if you maybe only saw that and then you came to this, you might be like, what? This is pretty different, you know.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. I had that. When I did thank God for Jokes where I was, it was on the heels of my girlfriend's boyfriend. I was doing thank God for Jokes. And then people go, now he curses.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

I was like, oh, now he curses. I didn't know I wasn't cursing.

[A]

I know. I was like, you were cursing, weren't you?

[B]

I thought so.

[A]

But you give, you're giving clean comedian.

[B]

I guess so. Yeah.

[A]

That's what I mean about the classy thing.

[B]

Yeah, I look, I look classy.

[A]

You look classy. And sometimes you just look wholesome. I mean, people used to think, I don't think anyone thinks I'm clean anymore. But people thought I was clean longer than I thought that they would. And I was clean for like five years. So it was just, you know.

[B]

Oh, so you did flip.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I was super.

[B]

You just made a decision.

[A]

I was super clean till I was 22. Cuz I was doing churches.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Even when I was doing mostly clubs and colleges and stuff, I was still doing a church here and there.

[B]

Do. Do church. Like clergy pastors ever come up to you and talk to you about connecting with your comedy now? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'll get messages from people being like, I'm a pastor. And I thought it was hilarious.

[B]

Oh, that's good.

[A]

Or. Yeah. Or like, we're really Christian. I've talked to people at shows in the crowd that were pastors or youth group leaders or worship leaders or whatever else. And obviously, those are, like, very cool Christians.

[B]

Yeah, those are the cool Christians.

[A]

Those are the cool ones who were like, yeah. Who were like, we thought it was damn good, you know, but, yeah, I mean, I'm sure there are lots of people who are like, this was not what I wanted to see, but if you're super conservative and religious, you're probably not coming to see me, I don't think.

[B]

Right.

[A]

At this point.

[B]

Yeah, that's not. That's. Yeah. The. What is your. What's your obsession currently? Like, what do you feel like the next special is trending towards in terms of topics?

[A]

The next special, I think I want to do really clean.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Just because I'm getting kind of like. I don't know, I just kind of want something challenging, and I can't think of anything else.

[B]

Oh, that's interesting.

[A]

That would be challenging. And also, probably just talking so much about how I started in this last hour, it's made me think about it a lot, and it's made me think about, you know, how it was, like, a different way of writing and, like, a challenge. And I think there's also something to be said of, like, every other special, I kind of go, like, more personal. More broad.

[B]

More personal.

[A]

More broad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so this one was super personal. And now I'm like, okay, we'll go broad again. And I'm like, maybe we'll just do, like, sort of clean and observational and see if I can do that for an hour. But I don't know. Maybe I won't be able to, but I'd like to.

[B]

I know you mean, like, there is a tempt. There is something alluring about playing clean because you're like, oh, you're taking away all of the easier ingredients.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's like you're cooking a meal without cheese and without, I don't know, olive oil or. Or meat, and you're like. And make something.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Like, okay.

[A]

If for no other reason than to just work on my vocabulary.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It makes you look up. You're like, synonym for fuck. You know, you're like, I got to think.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Because if you're going to say something instead of fuck, it's got to be almost like poetry.

[B]

Working it out is supported by Rula. Let's talk about therapy for a second. We talk about therapy all the time on this show. I've talked about it with Gary Gulman, with Sarah Sherman. That was a good episode where we talk about therapy. I've been in therapy. I know firsthand. Sometimes navigating mental health care can be challenging. Here's the thing about Rula. Rula helps to make that part easier. Rula works with major insurance plans. Sessions can cost as little as $15 and in some case, $0, depending on what your benefits are. Rula isn't just a directory. They help book appointments. They stay on top of your schedule and keep track of progress so you actually can get somewhere with therapy. Whether it's therapy or medication management, Rula makes it simple to get the full scope of care you need. No time wasted navigating between platforms or offices. Thousands of people have already used Rula to finally get the care they needed. Go to rula.com burbigs and get started today. That's R U L A.com Burbigs take the first step. Get connected. Take control of your mental health. Support for working it out comes from pesty. Pesty is do it yourself. Pest control. Oh man. If you listen to the show, you know that I've tangled with bugs before. I've had ants in the kitchen. Come on. You know that my wife Jen and I texting each other about the ants. You know that joke. I may have to retire that story soon because I got the pesty smart pest plan. Wow. Well done, Pesty. This is a special kit that includes everything you need to take care of your pest problem. The kit includes pro grade pesticide, the same stuff that the pros use, a sprayer, a mixing bag, gloves and instructions you can complete in minutes. With Pesti, you can get started at 35 bucks per treatment with a customized plan based on your location, bugs and climate. Just have to say like that's. That's a lot less than I've. I've paid for my treatments, but not anymore. Now I got pesty bugs. Hate to see you come in with Pesti. Go to Pesti.com WIO for an extra 10% off your order. Wow, that's a good deal. P-S-T-I E.com WIO for an extra ten percent off. They created a company to deal with my jokes about bugs. I think you're the most prolific comic I can think of. I think four specials in like six years.

[A]

Yeah, I think so. But I'm not agreeing with most prolific comic. I'm agreeing with the number of specials in the number of years. Right, but that's like, kind of what most people do that. Right. Every two years.

[B]

What would you tell your quarter life

[A]

crisis, self double your meds? I'm like, it's going to take you another year or so to figure that out, but start right now.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then also probably just like, you know, it's tough because I was going to say that I would tell her, don't worry, it's going to work out. And it's not a fluke. But then maybe it wouldn't have worked out because I wouldn't have had the drive.

[B]

I always think about that.

[A]

Do you?

[B]

Yeah, I always think about that. Is the worry helping?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

People always say it's not. You know, all the motivational speakers say it's not, but maybe it is.

[A]

I think it is. I think that imposter syndrome can be a real driving force.

[B]

Well, okay, here's the case for worrying. Here's the case for worrying. Case for worrying is. Makes you detail oriented.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the details are actually what make the thing good.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So if you weren't detail oriented, then maybe it wouldn't be as good. I feel like this is blasphemous because everyone's trying to not worry as much.

[A]

No. You should be so scared all the time. Stay on your toes. That's what I think.

[B]

Stay on your toes.

[A]

No, I really. I think the. The driving force underneath everything I've done is like, this need to prove myself. And maybe only after this last one am I like, okay, I think I'm like. I say this every time. I'm like. I think maybe I can relax. Relax. Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like this next hour I don't think is gonna come together in two years. I think it's probably gonna take longer than that.

[B]

That's how I feel about mine right now.

[A]

Yeah. Which I've never felt that way before. I've always been like. I've always had a pretty clear idea of, like, where I was going next. Like, usually when a special comes out, I have a new hour already and I don't have that for the first time.

[B]

You have a joke about men who kill their wives and think they're going to get away with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You haven't planned a thing in your whole goddamn life. What's the most disappointing date that you've been to in your life?

[A]

I mean, every single date where they weren't my soulmate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, really upsetting and, you know, so quickly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it. I think that's why app dates are so hard, because, you know, within 10 seconds right. If you like them or not.

[B]

Right. So you're searching and then your soulmate sort of like, hopeful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you're like, oh, got it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, this isn't it.

[A]

Yeah. Or if I've like gone on in the last few years, if I've ever gone on a date and realized halfway through the date they were pretending not to have seen any of my comedy before.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then it becomes clear that they lied. That is always really tough for me because I get that it's like a weird thing and it's hard to navigate, but then I'm like, okay, well, first off, you lied to me, so I don't really trust you now. And also, you know so much more about me than I know about you. And I haven't been aware of that imbalance this whole time. So that's been interesting to navigate.

[B]

You talk in the special about having, like, intrusive religious thoughts or how much religion kind of informs your thinking on a day to day basis. You still have it. Like, what part of your life is still informed by that?

[A]

I think that I. Here's what I'll say. When I said, like, people walking out of a show because they're like, this is too dirty or this is disrespectful or whatever, that actually does trigger that deep religious shame in me from when I was younger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When it was like. Because me coming up, if I said anything remotely dirty, innuendo, if I said. If I said damn. It was kind of like. I mean, I was raised on all that, like, abstinence shit of like, if you say, sir, if you say the word stripper in a joke, now every man in this room is thinking about strippers.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yes. I remember a comic said that to me once in like a church situation because I said. I think I said stripper in a joke at like a church thing. And I was like 16, and this guy was like, well, when you say that, every man in here is thinking about that and you've. It's very similar to, like, if you wear a tank top, you're leading boys astray. You know, there was like a lot of responsibility placed on you as a girl to, like, not cause men and boys to stumble, which is so crazy.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But I have. I have a lot of, like, shame about feeling like people think I'm like, dirty or gross.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

When I'm like, swearing or talking about sex on stage or something. And then also just like, I think the abstinence stuff really fucks you up for a Long time. And I've done a lot of work on it, but I'm still. I still have to work through it. Like, in relationships, I think, like, at the beginning of a relationship with somebody, I know I'm gonna feel that guilt sort of bubble up about sleeping with someone before marriage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just know to expect it. And it's sort of like a knee jerk reaction that I have to, like, think my way through, but it's like, deep in my body.

[B]

It's so funny. It's like I. I think, like, I think about this with Fleming, too, because Fleming, Chris Fleming and I grew up not that far from each other.

[A]

He's so funny.

[B]

Many years apart, but we both had that kind of repression, like, child, you know, Catholic, you know, central Massachusetts repression thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I feel like we're both kind of a response to that. And a lot of. A lot of Massachusetts comics are. And I'm sure, like, I think a lot of religious people with religious backgrounds have that. But I wonder, like, what. What it is. I really don't know the answers. Like, what is it that makes you revolt?

[A]

I think it's just after a while, you get kind of angry. I mean, when I started doing clubs when I was, like, 18, and I was suddenly around a bunch of atheists.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who, like, had never even thought that God was real and just didn't think about it. And it was a real, like, wake up call for me. And then I got mad that there were so many people living without this, like, shame and the secret voice in their head. Like, I just felt like I'd been lied to my whole life. And it's why my jokes when I was younger about religion are so angry. Because I was, like, untangling myself from a lot of it.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

And not everyone has that experience with religion growing up, but I certainly did. And, Yeah. I mean, I think I just. You get tired of feeling ashamed of yourself. It gets exhausting and.

[B]

Right. It's like if you know. If you know nothing else.

[A]

Yeah. And when you meet other people who aren't living with that, you're like, well, what the fuck?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What am I doing? You know? Why do I. Why can't I be like that?

[B]

No, totally. That makes perfect sense. I feel like even like when I was a kid, I always thought secretly I was funny, but that no one got the joke.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I went into the world of comedy. I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah. These people are like, me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's such a weird experience.

[A]

Yeah. When I was A kid. I definitely thought. I. But I don't. Doesn't every kid just kind of secretly think like, I'm special and. Nobody knows yet, do they?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't know. I thought they did. I thought every kid was just like, I'm really something under. Under all the like shyness and maybe awkwardness.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I. I always felt like that as a kid. And then I got older and I felt really sad when I noticed I lost that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's been weird. I've been trying to really focus on the fact that, like, I'm everything my 12 year old self wanted me to be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And really remember that every day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that I appreciate it and enjoy it. Because I didn't, like, I didn't think this was gonna be my life. I didn't think I was, but I thought. I secretly thought that I was like you said, like funny and interesting and creative and all that stuff. But I didn't know. I didn't know how to communicate that to other people until I found standup.

[B]

I don't think it is good to remind yourself of that because you do you. I think. Yeah. Anyone can lose track of like, what. What was the initial destination.

[A]

Yeah. Especially in this business when there's so many different types of success to compare yourself to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It can be easy to get lost sometimes to go, well, why don't I have that sort of attention? Or why don't I have that specific type of success? Or why don't people see me this way? Like, and then you look at where you're at and you're like, oh, I'm actually doing really well and like so far beyond where I thought I would be.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I need to be focused on that, not on like whatever I don't know, thing I don't have or I'm not managing to communicate. I don't know. I think there's like a lot of that with like being cool or something. Like, I feel that way. And this is where I'm like, I'm not like, cool.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Why can't I be one of like the cool.

[B]

That's really funny.

[A]

Cool people? And then I'm like, you're fine. It doesn't matter.

[B]

You. I think you are the cool people who were the cool people.

[A]

Chris Fleming's like a cool.

[B]

Chris Fleming's a cool.

[A]

Chris Fleming school. That's a perfect example.

[B]

Guilty of being cool. Dresses. Dresses like a. Like a mime.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It makes it work.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Caleb Herron like, there's like, cool. There's like, right, we're just cool.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Who. I'm like, I just don't have that. But I'm trying really hard. I think it's all the people who make it seem really effortless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And have a really strong sense of self. And I feel that I have never done anything easily.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I just feel like I'm like, I'm trying so hard out here.

[B]

They are both trying very hard.

[A]

You think?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I think they're both great. They've both been on this podcast, but

[A]

I think they both very well, like talented and are like people, people.

[B]

You got to realize, like, Fleming's been doing comedy like almost 20 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But like, he's just trying really hard. Like he just blew. It just so happens Fleming blew up in the last year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

First of all, his special is great. And like, I always think he's funny, but I know what you mean.

[A]

Like, it's, it's a personality thing. I think more than anything is what I get jealous of with other people is I go, I don't have that type of personality. It's usually extroverts. I go, I don't have that. I don't have that thing where I get energy from other people and I'm like effortlessly charming. I don't have any of that. I think I'm trying. I think stand up.

[B]

I think you do, by the way. But I'm not gonna fight you at every self deprecating line.

[A]

I think I come. I think standup comes to me much more naturally than anything else. And it's, it's another reason why if I, you know, go on a date with someone who's seen all my comedy, they might be disappointed when they meet me in person because I'm like, yeah, I like her too. I've worked really hard on her. That's me at my best.

[B]

Totally. No, of course. It's your best 45 minutes of yourself. And it's. And it's scripted and like. Yeah. I think that's one of the things that's funny about when people often think stand up comedians are gonna be great socially. And it's like, no, no. I have a microphone and I'm on stage and everyone knows not to speak.

[A]

Yeah. But then some of them are. It's crazy when there are stand up comedians who are like, great socially. And I'm like, this is not fair.

[B]

It is hard to theoretically, like match up to this invented art. Art piece that is yourself on stage.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is a perfect segue into the slow round. Who are you jealous of? I feel like we've covered this.

[A]

Leanne Morgan's kids.

[B]

Leanne Morgan's kids.

[A]

I want to be Leanne Morgan's daughter so bad.

[B]

Who's her makeup artist? She was right here when Leanne was on the podcast, and I don't think

[A]

I've met her, but I met her other daughter, who's also just so charming and sweet.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But every time I see Leanne in person or on screen, I'm just like, I think everyone feels this way about her, but everyone's like, can you adopt me maybe? Like, the first time I ever met her, she was just like, are you okay?

[B]

Are you okay?

[A]

I will do your laundry.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And I was like, I'm okay. I'm fine. I need to go on stage now. Like, she's so magical. I really.

[B]

She really is.

[A]

Yeah. So I have a lot of. A lot of mom envy. Yeah.

[B]

That's interesting.

[A]

Whenever I see someone with really good parents, I always want to, like, take them by the shoulders and be like, do you know how lucky you are?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Do you have any idea what you have here? But I think her kids know.

[B]

I think Leanne might take the job if you asked her.

[A]

I know. That's like.

[B]

I think if you reached out to Leanne and go, hey, I have a complicated parent situation in my life.

[A]

Will you be my mom?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, my mom's gone. There's a vacancy.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Don't ask about my dad.

[A]

I'm like, I know you're busy.

[B]

Yeah, I know you're busy.

[A]

I know you're filming a show and movies.

[B]

You don't even have to be full time.

[A]

You don't. I just.

[B]

I've moved out. I don't have to stay over, but

[A]

I can tell people you're my mom.

[B]

I think that's. I think that's fair game. I'm hoping she sees this and calls you and goes, yeah, Taylor, you can. I'll be your mom.

[A]

This is a joke, Leanne. I know you're so busy. You don't know enough time for that.

[B]

I don't. I'm still holding a candle for.

[A]

I think she would. I think she would, too.

[B]

That's lovely. That's a great answer. What do you daydream about?

[A]

Ooh, I usually daydream about whatever. This is embarrassing.

[B]

Please.

[A]

It's just evidence of what a workaholic I am. I'm usually daydreaming about whatever. Like, my next project is. Sure which is, I think probably me trying to manifest whatever it is. Like, when I was younger, I used to daydream about like my special. Like whatever the next special was. And that's kind of not hitting as hard anymore as far as daydreams go, because, you know, well, it's going to happen. Like, daydreams are more fun when you're not sure if they're going to happen.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

What do you daydream about as a married, successful person?

[B]

You know, no one's asked me this. No one has. No one has countered me on this.

[A]

That's rude.

[B]

Which is rude.

[A]

You just daydream about your daughter becoming an artist, but being like, my dad did everything right.

[B]

I think everything is. Everything in my daydream universe is fantasy. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like walking here, for example, like, it's raining out, you know, when you came in and I. And I like saw this woman, like breaking up with, like, being broken up with on the phone by like her girlfriend and she's like, like. But I'm not codependent. Like, it was just. Right. No, it's awful. That's awful. I. That felt terrible. But then my brain just goes into their relationship. Oh, right. So it's like I'm like living inside of like a hypothetical.

[A]

Are you watching them or are you watching?

[B]

Yeah, I'm watching. And then I walk off and. And then I. And then what I'm thinking about is their deal. Like, I feel like so much of my stuff is like, I'm in cafes, I overhear stuff, my brain goes into. Like, what is the actuality of that?

[A]

But that's just you being a writer.

[B]

It is.

[A]

So is that daydreaming really?

[B]

Taylor, please.

[A]

Is that just you processing material? You're right. I'm sorry.

[B]

Criticizing my daydreams.

[A]

Oh, you're right. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, but it is. Yeah, it's writing. Yeah, it's writing. But it's like, that's why I'm. I'm a writer in the first place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just go into like, what, what if. What, what if this. What if this. What if this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's also why I catastrophize. I mean, catastrophizing is like a big part of my daydreams.

[A]

Oh, well, then that's my answer too. I didn't know catastrophizing counted as daydreaming. Because then in that case at that. Gonna edit out that other part.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Catastrophe.

[B]

Foreign. It out is supported by Helix. Helix makes award winning sleep products tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. Helix offers a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. 120 nights. I've been a Helix customer myself for many years, since the beginning of this podcast almost six years ago. Everyone on the staff here at Working it out has a Helix mattress. We all really love them. I know a thing or two about sleep and Helix makes the best mattress I've ever slept on. And I've slept on a lot of mattresses. I travel quite a bit, stay in a lot of hotels. Traveling actually can be hard. If I could bring my Helix mattress with me on tour I would go to helixsleep.com birbigs and you will get this is a really good deal. 27% off site wide exclusive for listeners of Mike Birbigli is Working it out. That's helixsleep.com birb I G S for 27% off sitewide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com purbigs support for working it out comes from Article. Article offers a curated range of mid century modern, coastal and Scandinavian inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with nearly any other Article product. I love this Article furniture. They have a thoughtful design approach that makes it incredibly easy to mix and match, helping you create a space that feels cohesive as well as stylish. I feel like if you went on the Article website you could spend hours there. I was on the site and I got this little bookcase and a little rug. They all sort of have a nice matching color palette. With Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. The peace of mind ensures that you can invest in your home without hesitation. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim that, visit article.comwio for working it out and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com wio for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. I'm gonna go to Material. Okay, I'm gonna do more material than usual today because you're a joke nerd like me.

[A]

Okay,

[B]

I had a sex dream and then after that I had another sex dream. And in my dream I distinctly thought I'm on a run.

[A]

Like you were impressed with your stamina.

[B]

Yeah, I'm like, I guess I'm just one of these people Now. And I woke up and I thought, not only is the streak over, but the streak never started.

[A]

That's funny. I can't believe that wasn't enough to shake you out of the dream. I would never recover this quickly. Surely. I would have been in the second

[B]

section going, wait, I should have known.

[A]

How am I pulling this off?

[B]

I should have known that this. Right. It's like, what is that? It's called in dreams, like reality testing or something where you're like, I should have known. Like, the reality test should have been. This never happens.

[A]

Yeah. Which leads with everything where you're like, when I was at my house, but it was my school. And it's like, you probably should have known, right. That wasn't your house.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

Yeah, that kind of stuff.

[B]

Yeah, right. That's a funny way to go.

[A]

But hey, revealing about you. You obviously believe in yourself on a deep core level.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or.

[B]

Or have a. Or have a desire. No, but I think that's a funny. That's a funny way to go. By the way, I think what you're alluding to, which is like, what's the sex the metaphor for?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, what does it mean? Yeah, obviously it doesn't mean sex.

[A]

What do you think it means? I don't.

[B]

I. I couldn't tell you. And then I had this sex dream. And then I. A few hours later, I ran into one of the people from the sex dream at a coffee shop. And my.

[A]

In real life.

[B]

In real life. And I thought, in my mind, I thought I just had sex with you in my dream. But what I said was, nice to see you. And now I'm suspicious of anyone who says, nice to see you.

[A]

That's funny. So now when everyone says, when someone says nice to see you to you, you're like, hey, well, have you ever told anybody you had a sex dream about them? It's kind of a. It's a bad spot to put someone in my wife.

[B]

I did.

[A]

Well, yeah, of course, because you want those points. Very funny, by the way. And by the way, I even see you.

[B]

Oh, I'm dreaming about you. Are you kidding me?

[A]

And you finished, by the way. In my dream. It was very important to me. Even in my dream, I'm one of the good ones.

[B]

This is. And then I wrote this down the other day. I paired these all together. It wasn't. It was like I wrote, sex is such a big deal. It has taken over the word it. When you say we are doing it, people know what you mean.

[A]

That's A great point.

[B]

Can you imagine cornering the market on the word it?

[A]

That's such a good observation.

[B]

Imagine pitching that at a meeting. Like, from now on, our activity, we're gonna call it it, and people are gonna know what we mean. And everyone at the meeting's skeptical. They're like, no one's gonna understand what we're talking about.

[A]

That's such a good point. Yeah, I've never. No one's ever said, and then we did it. And even like, what did you do?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's really. Wow. I can't believe I've never heard of that before.

[B]

Do you have anything right now that's like half in the notebook or all

[A]

I have is half baked stuff right now.

[B]

Hit me.

[A]

It's all I've got. Let me see. Oh, it's getting harder to date as I get older. Cause I can't say anything romantic anymore. And neither can anyone else. Like, I can't say stuff like, I've never felt like this before. And no one else can say it to me. Cause it used to be romantic. Now it's a red flag if someone's like, I've never felt this way before. I'm like, well, you're 38. You should have felt most things.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

It seems weird.

[B]

That's a really good observation.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's like, yeah, the novelty. All, like, all sense of novelty in a relationship goes away at a certain point.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

I've only felt this once. It was with my first wife.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it's hard to be like, you can only say, like, I met the one so many times. Like, once you're wrong, like three times now you're just like, they're great, but you know me, I'm stupid.

[B]

Like, yeah, totally.

[A]

I've been wrong a lot.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Like, that's what's getting so depressing for me and anyone else in my life who's single is. We just keep. Like, there's no. We have no confidence in our interest.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And people were just like, yeah, me. And I'm excited. But remember all these other times that I was excited and it was completely wrong?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

It's hard to have fresh eyes when you don't have fresh eyes.

[A]

Yeah. Seen too much.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Seen way too much. So I have that. Oh, my friend Kelsey Kelsey Cook, another very funny comic, she told me that I should make a list of all of my best qualities as a partner because it'll help me going when I'm dating, you'll, like, know what you're bringing to the table. And she said, I did it when I was single and it really helped me. And. And I said, okay, I'll try that. And she called me the next day and she goes, did you try to make that list of qualities? And I said, I did. I didn't get very far.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She said, what did you get? And I said, I wrote down funny Fast reader. And I have a car.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Doesn't feel great. So it made me feel worse, actually.

[B]

Right. It's like, it made me feel like I could be a task rabbit.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. But humble.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. At least Task rabbit's funny.

[B]

Made me feel like I could be an Uber Eats driver.

[A]

That's funny.

[B]

It's like, I love that, actually. Fast reader is hilarious.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's tough.

[B]

So if I ever steal your phone, I'm going to get through a lot of emails.

[A]

Oh, don't spin it back. Seeing that you've just spent. You've just spun it. So it's not even a. It's not even a good thing anymore.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm like, well, I can't show anyone this list.

[B]

No, totally.

[A]

All right, what else do I like, oh, here's something. Maybe you can. So what? It really bothers me when people are pregnant and they won't tell you the baby's name. When they're like, we're gonna. We're not gonna tell people till the baby's born. And it's like, just tell me.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I don't care that much.

[B]

Yeah, I don't care that much. I probably won't see you.

[A]

I probably won't see you. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not gonna tell anyone. I'm not gonna call all our mutuals and go, guess what? Their bab. I don't care. Who do you think your baby is? Are you also gonna, like, cover their face at the grocery store? No one gives a shit.

[B]

Are you in the royal family and I don't realize it? Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

No one cares.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then, like, then when. And it makes me resentful so that when they finally do have the baby and they're like, look who it is. I'm like, I don't know. You wouldn't tell me.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I don't know who it is.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And I'm gonna forget the baby's name on purpose once it's here as a way to punish you.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna be like, oh, what was it, Sam? Well, I didn't have time to memorize it. Yeah, you didn't Give me enough time.

[B]

Yeah. You know how in movies when there's a bully character that. And then there's, like, a wimpy guy who's always like, hey, I don't want any trouble. That's me in my marriage.

[A]

You're the wimpy guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then. And then when my wife saw me talk about this, she was like, that's how I feel. And I'm like, I don't want any trouble. But then I'm on stage. Yeah. The joke is, I'm on stage right now talking about this, so clearly I want trouble.

[A]

That's funny. What does she bully you about? Do you have, like, an example that you can do in an 80s bully voice?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

But it's a wife thing.

[B]

You know what's funny is, like, I don't think. I don't think there's any bullying. I feel like we. I feel like I was so. Like, I feel like my relationship with my dad was so intense that I. In my life, I put it on whoever is talking to me. Oh. Sometimes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. So I'm your dad right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But whoever's talking to you.

[B]

Yeah. Not. It's not everybody, but just in certain situations, I'm like, oh, this is my dad.

[A]

If someone's upset with you.

[B]

Yeah. You're like, yeah, it becomes my dad.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she might just be like, can you do the dishes? And you're like, I don't want any trouble. Stop screaming.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you have anything else?

[A]

I mean, I do, but it's like, who knows if it sucks? It's also like, I don't know, but whatever. Well, let's try it. Something that I have that I do. Actually, I've. I tried this at Largo, and I think I can. I am. Think I'm gonna get it somewhere good. Is. People always talk about, like, the right time to say I love you. Like, how long do you wait to say I love you when you're seeing someone? And I don't think there's one specific answer, because everybody's different. Like, if. If a friend of mine is like, they said, I love you, is it too soon? I'm kind of like, if. If you're being honest with yourself, you know how long it takes to fall in love with you?

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Like, if someone told me that they loved me two weeks in, I'd be like, that's too soon.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It takes about six weeks for me. That's at the earliest.

[B]

It's a solid marination period.

[A]

And that's if you're on board from the jump.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But for people who are, like, if you're not sure if it's too soon, you need to really assess who you are and what you bring to the table. Like.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

If someone says I love you three dates in. Look at yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you dua lipa? No. Then it's probably too soon.

[B]

Too soon.

[A]

If you're not a pop star with a book club.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You are probably. It's probably a love bombing situation.

[B]

This is good.

[A]

Yeah. This is the one I come up.

[B]

This is a good bet.

[A]

This is the one I've come up with recently that I'm like, okay, this will be a strong bit.

[B]

My. You know, when Jenny and I went on our first date, she goes, everyone hates me at work. And I go, why do they hate you? I love you. She goes, you love me? I go, I mean, you seem cool. A true story. It's in girlfriend's boyfriend, but it's a true story.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

But it's like it. There is. There is, oddly. And that was earnest, but it was by accident.

[A]

Yeah. You know, but that's the best way to say it.

[B]

But there's. There is something to your point of your bit. There is something suspicious about an early I love you.

[A]

Yeah. But not if you're like Emma Stone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's like, of course you're in love right away.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So that's the kind of. The thing is like, I think that if you. That's what's so hard about dating is you have to be really honest with yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

About who you are and your, like, value.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how quickly you draw people in and how charming you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because, I mean. Yeah. If somebody fell in love with me too quick, I'd be like, that's not. I'm not. You know, it's why. It's the same reason I'm never late to stuff, because I don't have the personality to be late to stuff. I'm not worth the wait. Like, there are people who can reschedule on you who can be like, actually, I'm gonna be 45 minutes late. And they get there and you're just grateful they showed up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't have that. I gotta. I gotta get there right on time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And even then, people are like, let's keep this short.

[B]

Right. Know your value.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then lower it.

[A]

Yeah. You should lowball yourself if possible.

[B]

All right. The last thing we do is working on our cause. Is there a non profit you like to contribute to? And then we will contribute to them and then link to them in the show notes.

[A]

Yes. Palestinian Children Relief Fund.

[B]

Oh great. So we will contribute to them. We will link to them in the show notes. Taylor Thomason, congratulations on another special.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Always so funny and so good and I appreciate so much for you being here and being on time.

[A]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

Working it Out. Cause it's not done. We're working it out because there's no that's gonna do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Taylor Tomlinson on Instagram at Taylor Tomlinson. You can watch her new special on Netflix, Prodigal daughter. Check out birdbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list. Get your text message alerts to be the first to know about my upcoming shows, you can watch the full video of this on our YouTube channel @Mike Birbiglia. Subscribe there. We love it when you subscribe there because we're posting more and more videos. Our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mix by Shub Sarin. Supervising engineer, Kate Balinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers as always for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein and our daughter Una, who built the original Radio 4 made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate it and review it on Apple Podcasts. It really helps us sign up for Premium. That helps us out even more. We've done 200 episodes. 200 episodes. We did it. Thanks everybody. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your pastor. If you have one after church, just say, hey, Pastor Jim, that was a pretty good sermon. Hey, when you're at home between studying those Bible passages, you might consider listening to Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out. It's a podcast where Mike Birbiglia talks to other creatives about creative process and even sometimes about religion. And maybe you'll find some inspiration for how to sculpt your sermons. That's right, May. You should say this to your pastor. Working it out everybody. We'll see you next time.