206. Cazzie David: Spiritually a Boomer

Summary

---

Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out: Episode 206

Guest: Cazzie David

Title: “Spiritually a Boomer”

Release Date: March 16, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this candid and comedic episode, Mike Birbiglia welcomes writer, filmmaker, and humorist Cazzie David to “work out” material on aging, millennial angst, cynicism, family dynamics, and the struggle to accept compliments. The conversation centers around Cazzie’s new book, Delusions, her HBO Max film I Love You Forever, and her trademark blend of self-deprecation and existential wit. Together, they deep-dive into generational identity, the creative process, and the art of being a “hater” in today’s world.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Art of Taking Compliments

• Cazzie reveals it’s hard for her to accept compliments, often responding with self-deprecating humor.
  • Cazzie David: "I just don't know how to do anything else. Like, it would just be so fake. I would just be a completely different person if I wasn't like constantly apologizing." [00:00]
  • Mike repeatedly tries to “practice” complimenting her—which leads to playful, awkward exchanges.
  • Mike Birbiglia: "This book is so funny."
    Cazzie David: "Thank you. I know, I know." [00:21]
  • They agree that “Thank you” is hard to say, as it feels both insufficient and suspiciously self-satisfied.
  • Cazzie: "Thank you is big." [32:21]
  • They riff on the coded language of artistic praise (“Congratulations,” “It’s cute...”), agreeing the worst is insincere or backhanded praise, especially in creative circles.

2. Cazzie’s Approach to Aging and Millennial Angst

• Much of Cazzie’s book concerns anxiety about turning 30 and the expectations of aging.
  • She and Mike experiment with a satirical “mental health trick” where you imagine yourself 20 years older to make your current age feel young and precious.
    • Mike Birbiglia: "I am now 67 and full of regrets. I wish I could be 47 again...face to face with the last seventh of my life and it's all such a fucking bummer. That is devastating for me to perform." [04:21]
  • Cazzie admits that reaching her 30s hasn’t led to the confidence or ease so many promise:
    • "I feel like it was false advertising and I'm a little upset, frankly." [06:02]

3. Hopeless Romanticism vs. Cynicism

• The book and film reveal Cazzie’s simultaneous desire for and suspicion of romance and tradition.
  • “I actually am kind of a hopeless romantic...constantly grappling with both sides of my personality. Wanting the thing, and also hating it.” [06:45]
• She is asked to list five things she genuinely loves, a recurring bit throughout the episode:
  • "I don't even know if I love them or if I need these things to just be okay, you know?" [08:47]
  • Her list struggles past “nature,” “games,” “reality TV,” “not leaving the house,” and, finally, “my cats” [16:37].
  • Notably, she cannot bring herself to list “friends and family”—emphasizing her distinct blend of aloofness and honesty.

4. Life as a ‘Nepo Baby’ and Past Lives

• They discuss generational privilege and being a “Nepo baby” (child of a famous parent), with Cazzie joking about karmic debts from previous lives:
  • "She has been told by up to two psychics that she has lived many lifetimes and that only this current lifetime is that of a Nepo baby." [16:46]
  • She contends the real challenge is convincing people she isn't “the most annoying person on earth.” [19:02]
  • Birbiglia reflects on the dynamic of hardship fueling comedy:
    • "There's a correlation between a lack of strife and comedy." [18:21]

5. Creative Process and Directing

• Cazzie talks the challenge of coaxing performances from actors as a director and the difficulty of preserving the specific comedic voice she intends:
  • "What I liked least was trying to find roundabout ways to get something out of an actor, which is what directing is...to not be, like, say it literally in this exact way..." [29:34]
  • Mike praises the naturalism of her film and compares her debut to Lena Dunham’s impact with Tiny Furniture. [30:46][31:04]
  • They discuss the difficulty of getting subsequent films made—even for those with a strong first project.

6. Social Media, Internet Generations, and Comfort TV

• Both express discomfort at the performative demands of today’s social media.
  • Cazzie feels her generation (ages 30–35) got “the worst deal,”—too young not to be publicly present online, too old for sharing to be intuitive:
    • "I think I'm spiritually, maybe a boomer." [40:39]
• They riff on “old souls,” generational labels, and the existential confusion of growing older but feeling a different “metaphysical age.” [41:38]
• Cazzie’s “comfort show” is Gilmore Girls, which she appreciates for its lack of real conflict:
  • “The show is so great because nothing really bad ever happens in it...I'm just worried that I'm going to be like 80 years old and needing to watch Gilmore Girls on a laptop to escape.”* [45:48][46:35]

7. Notable Cultural and Relationship Takes

• They touch on relationship deal breakers:
  • Cazzie’s is “looking through your phone”:
    • "It can't be done." [48:13]
  • She argues reading a partner’s paper journal isn’t as egregious, but phones are private. Mike disagrees, leading to a debate about posthumous journal burning.
    • Mike Birbiglia: "When I die, I need everyone in my life to just burn my journals." [49:15]

8. The Lovable “Hater” Persona

• Cazzie asserts her “hater” energy was once valued, now stigmatized:
  • "There was a time before now that being a hater was a good thing in society...We turned to them to know what was wrong with what we're liking." [49:54]
  • Mike reframes the comedic challenge:
    • "The challenge for us as comedy writers [is] to just be funny enough that people don't notice it as hate." [50:59]

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On taking compliments:
  • Cazzie: "I would have to make up a new personality." [00:14]
  • Mike: "I know is an interesting way to take it." [00:26]
• On aging:
  • Mike (performing Cazzie’s bit): "Now that I am 67 and infertile and my dreams have died..." [04:21]
• On her generation and social media:
  • Cazzie: "I think I'm spiritually, maybe a boomer." [40:39]
• On ‘too full to fuck’:
  • Cazzie: "This is a perfect example of why I. I'm not really a good messenger of my ideas...It comes out, it's incredibly divisive." [37:34][37:46]
• On being a ‘hater’:
  • Cazzie: "Now you're just kind of like an outlier of society. You're like the worst of the people." [50:11]
  • Mike: "Our challenge is to just be funny enough people don't notice it as hate." [50:59]
• On comfort TV:
  • Cazzie: "I'm just worried that I'm going to be like 80 years old and like needing to watch Gilmore Girls on a laptop to escape." [46:35]
• On generational confusion:
  • Cazzie: "I think you are probably nine." [41:50]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00] - Cazzie’s struggle to take compliments; self-deprecation habits
• [04:13] - “Satirical mental health advice” on aging
• [06:45] - Hopeless romanticism vs. cynicism
• [07:44]-[16:28] - Listing five things she loves (nature, games, reality TV, not leaving the house, cats)
• [17:04] - Nepo baby, past lives, and the burdens of privilege
• [20:15] - Movie backstory; co-writing and directing challenges
• [29:12] - Favorite and least favorite aspects of directing
• [32:35] - Compliments and the coded language of praise in creative circles
• [37:33] - “Too full to fuck” essay; controversy and satire misread
• [40:39] - Social media and generational alienation; “spiritually a boomer”
• [45:48] - Comfort TV; Gilmore Girls as an emotional refuge
• [48:22] - Relationship deal breakers and the ethics of privacy
• [49:54] - The lovable hater: comedy, criticism, and societal shifts

---

Noteworthy Segment: “Practice Taking Compliments”

• [00:13] — Mike and Cazzie perform mock exchanges to help her accept compliments.
  • Mike: "This book is so funny."
  • Cazzie: "Thank you. I know."
  • Mike: "I know is an interesting way to take it."

---

Cause of the Episode

• Cazzie selects immigration support.
  • Mike donates to the Legal Aid Society (legalaidnyc.org). [54:30]

---

Tone & Style

• Sarcastic, self-aware, neurotic, and quick-witted.
• Both host and guest blend sincerity with irony, using humor to process deep-seated anxieties about identity, art, and modern life.

---

For Listeners New and Old

This episode is a delightfully neurotic journey through Cazzie David’s mind: whip-smart, allergic to sentimentality, but ultimately earnest. Key topics—age, success, family, and the discomfort of being seen—are explored with refreshing honesty and admitting ambivalence. It’s highly recommended for fans of sharp, self-aware comedy rooted in real vulnerability.

---

Listen if you enjoy: Self-deprecating humor, insider creative process talk, existential tangents on aging, and the millennial–Gen X comedic sweet spot.

---

For more information:

• Delusions by Cazzie David — available now
• I Love You Forever — streaming on HBO Max
• Follow Cazzie on Instagram: @cazziedavid

---

Transcript

[Kazi David]

I'm trying to take more compliments as a 30 year old woman. I just don't know how to. To do anything else. Like, it would just be so fake. I would just be a completely different person if I wasn't like constantly apologizing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, let's take a practice.

[Kazi David]

I would have to make up a new personality.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All right, let's practice. This book is so funny.

[Kazi David]

Thank you. I know, I know, I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know is an interesting way to take it. I know, right?

[Kazi David]

It's so funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Your movie is fantastic. Great story.

[Kazi David]

I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is the voice of the great Kazi David. She is a filmmaker, an actor and an author. She has a brand new book called Delusions. She has a film that I love called I love you Forever. It's an independent film that is now on hbo. Max. She writes a lot about sort of millennial angst. Her new book is about the anxiety she felt about turning 30. We talk a lot about that today. It's just a great episode all around. Like, very unique. You know, someone who's an extremely prolific comedy writer, actor, director, and I think you're gonna love it. Thanks, by the way, to everyone who has signed up for Working It Out Premium on Apple Podcasts. We've been doing a lot of different kinds of bonus episodes. I'm about to record another one which a super secret guest. It'll be out soon. We work out jokes on there. Some of them we work out your jokes. Some of them we work out my jokes. But it's if you like the working out jokes element of this show, like if you're really nerdy on jokes, the bonus feed is really where it's at. We call it the Bilbilia Familia. So subscribe to that on Apple Podcasts and stay tuned. Oh, by the way, if you do subscribe, you get new ads on any of the episodes and you support the show, which is an independent production, and you get the bonus episodes. Like I said, by the way, if you're in Los Angeles, albeit Netflix is a joke festival. May 6 at the Wilshire E. Bell Theater. There are a few seats left. It's me and friends. I'll probably do B. I'll probably be doing probably about 40 minutes of my new material. So it's not like the full, full show, but it's got some secret guests. One of them confirmed. Really cool. Someone who's been on this podcast before. Really, really funny. So that'll be May 6th at the Wilshire EBOL Theater. Then I'm doing a bunch of Dates in support of John Mulaney. May 14th, I will be in Colorado Springs with John Mulaney. Then I will be May 15th in Eugene, Oregon and then Bend, Oregon. So that is super exciting. I mean, those should be great. In August, I'll be in Kansas City with him as well as Lincoln, Nebraska, Wait Park, Minnesota and a handful of others. You can get tickets for any of [e-mail] and thanks to everyone who signed up for text message alerts. Text message alerts are basically because my email list sometimes goes to people's spam. And so now we made a text message alert. If you text 917-444-7150, you will be the first, the first to know about my upcoming shows and tour dates. I love this talk with Cazzie David. She is a huge, humorously cynical comedic voice. Not completely cynical, but maybe realistic is how she'd describe it. We talk about writing books, making films, getting older. A real one of a kind episode for this Working it out podcast. Enjoy my conversation with the great Kazi David. So much of your book is like you being like, you know, imagining yourself like in 20 years being like, you know, you're 30 now.

[Kazi David]

I'm 31.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you have like a thing where you're like, I am 51. Like you add 20 years and you do like a thing to feel better

[Kazi David]

about your current age.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. And so then I did it. Hold on, let me do it. It's on. Oh, it's on page 30. So then I did it for myself.

[Kazi David]

This is a like satirical mental health piece of advice if you're feeling bad about your age.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. So I'm gonna do it. I am 67. I am now 67 and full of regrets. I wish I could be 47 again back in my 47 year old body, which I once thought was unlovable but now would give anything to possess again. Now that I am 67 and infertile and my dreams have died and I am face to face with the last seventh of my life and it's all such a fucking bummer. That is devastating for me to perform.

[Kazi David]

It must feel really bad to be infertile.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And the infertility is obviously huge issue for me. Yeah, but like 67, you're like. But I will say, but then if

[Kazi David]

a 67 year old does it, it's odd. 20 years, right? 87, they're, they're imagining themselves at 87. So it must feel really good to be 67.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But it's funny because like, here's what I'll say. Here's what I have to offer for your 31 year old self. I'm 47. I'm basically. You're. I'm basically 20 years older than you. It's fine.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean?

[Kazi David]

I keep hearing that it's fine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But like it's. It's not great.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But also like 31 wasn't great.

[Kazi David]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean?

[Kazi David]

Like. Well, everyone said it was gonna be amazing. Like, I felt like what I was told was that I would basically become a different person and I would wait.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Everyone's gonna hype you up.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Everyone was like, you're not gonna think about what other people say about you or like what you look like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

And that has not happened yet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

And I'm a. I feel like it was false advertising and I'm a little upset, frankly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The. Do you feel like the people who you're dating should read delusions?

[Kazi David]

I. I was actually hoping people like don't read and that's like the truth because you hear that all the time and that's what I'm hoping. No, I don't think anyone should read that. Especially people I'm dating. I don't think people I'm dating should read that now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was thinking it when I was. When I was reading it, I was like, oh, I wonder. Cause a lot about really cynical takes on weddings, Love, romance. I was like, I wonder. But maybe they should.

[Kazi David]

But it's weird because I actually am kind of a hopeless romantic.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, I get that too.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. It's just like. It's a really weird. I'm kind of constantly grappling with like both sides of this. Of my personality.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

Which is really wanting the thing and then really hating it and being judgmental about it at the same time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What is your, like, best case scenario for your. What's your dream? What's your dream existence? Because so much is like popping the balloons of. Of life in existence. Yeah, you, you know, you. We wrote down, you hate most music. Weddings. Eating at restaurants, museums. Shopping. Holding a baby. Holidays, traveling. First of all, how true is the list? And then can I challenge you to make a list of five things that you love?

[Kazi David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Here we go.

[Kazi David]

The list is. That list holds true. I actually just have really bad taste in music.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Like, it's really bad. My friends make fun of me how bad my taste in music is. Like, I've been really jamming to that song Ordinary.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. I don't know it.

[Kazi David]

Who's it I think it's probably really bad because I like it. Okay, who's it by? Alex Warren.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Alex Warren. Okay. Sure, sure.

[Kazi David]

Like, I like big, like swinging. Like, you know, anthems.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Like pop anthems.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. One of our slowdown questions is, is there a song that makes you cry?

[Kazi David]

Yeah. I don't feel comfortable saying it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, we're gonna have to push back on that. We're gonna have to speak with your reps. Yeah.

[Kazi David]

Okay. Five things I love

[Mike Birbiglia]

the crying song that makes you cry.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, I'm not answering that. That's too personal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Fair. Wow.

[Kazi David]

I would say five things that I love. See, this is the thing I talk about in the book also, is that I don't even know if I love them or if I need these things to just be okay, you know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

So it's like, maybe someone would say, like, I love being in nature, but it's like, I don't know if I love it. Like, I'm not necessarily enjoying it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Should we put it on the list?

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Trees. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Looking at nature.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. Right. I've noticed on your Instagram you have these animals around your house. It's like deer, Right?

[Kazi David]

There's deer, but there's also this bobcat, and they won't, apparently. I. I was fine with the bobcat at first, and then there was one time where it leapt at me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. This is real. It sounds fake, but it's real. It leapt at me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What distance?

[Kazi David]

So there was a gate, and I was on the other side of the gate, and the gate had, like, vines on it. So I think from the bobcat's perspective, it thought it was just kind of like bushes. And so it leapt at the gate, but it hit the gate.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Kazi David]

So I saw and ran off. And they said, don't worry, it's not going to attack you unless it has rabies. And I said, well, it has rabies because it tried to attack me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

But you can't relocate a bobcat in la. It's against the law.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Kazi David]

So I'm just gonna have to live with it. And now I walk around my house with an air horn. I literally can't walk outside without an air horn.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. It's horrible. So I'm constantly living in fear.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow, that is strange.

[Kazi David]

So it seems like it might be this peaceful experience, but it's actually. Yeah. It's like kind of a nightmare show. Yeah. Nature, nature.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We got trees.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Other things I like. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Food.

[Kazi David]

So I don't. It's not like I'M a foodie.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

And I. Actually, that's another thing I'm really scared of.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

It's just the whole thing around eating.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. Yeah.

[Kazi David]

I seem real pleasant.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I feel the same way, though. I think fancy food is.

[Kazi David]

I can't eat at restaurants.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The whole food is art phenomenon. Like, respect to people who do it. Also, you should respect me for enjoying macaroni and cheese.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, well, I can't enjoy that. But I will say, I think, you know, everyone says, like, oh, the food in France, in Paris is incredible.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

Can't eat there. Worst food I've ever had in my life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I can't get into it.

[Kazi David]

Every restaurant, it's like one after the other. They're like, okay, well, you'll love this one. Yeah, it's all bad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I get that. This is the list of things you love.

[Kazi David]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Food, food. No, I don't think I would go there. Once again, like, sports. No, but I. I have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You seem like you'd be good at sports.

[Kazi David]

I am good at sports.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What are you. What are you good at?

[Kazi David]

Okay, I have one. I love games.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, Games, games.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We got nature. We got trees.

[Kazi David]

I like games.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We got games.

[Kazi David]

I like parlor games. I like competitive games.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You play sports?

[Kazi David]

I'd like to go on Traders. I think if. When my career, you know, is a little bit more up in the air.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Traders?

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's Traders? Like what? I don't know what it is. I'm sorry.

[Kazi David]

It's like the biggest reality show right now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

It's amazing. Maybe we could go on together. Because I. Do you play mafia? You play, but you play, like, live Mafia.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay.

[Kazi David]

But I could do that. Don't want to go alone. Like, some people go with their friends. Like Johnny and Tara. Like, I feel like we could be Johnny and Tara.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you think we'd be good?

[Kazi David]

Yeah, I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it's parlor games, but on television.

[Kazi David]

No, it's mafia.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right? Mafia.

[Kazi David]

It's live Mafia. So everyone goes to Scotland for, like, a few weeks. Oh, and there's two people that are pronounced traitors.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where is this?

[Kazi David]

I can't believe it. It's hosted by Alan Cumming.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's fun.

[Kazi David]

So we would go on together.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I would do that.

[Kazi David]

You would?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I think I would be into that.

[Kazi David]

Like, would you ever go on reality tv?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that I would not. I would not be excited about it, but I feel like I would be open to engaging it. If you thought that I would bring something to the Table.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, I think you would definitely think

[Mike Birbiglia]

if you could activate something in me that would be strong. I feel like I would engage that.

[Kazi David]

You kind of just exude faithful energy, which is you're either a traitor or faithful. And I think that could really work in our favor in case one of us happened to be a traitor, because we're obviously going to form an alliance.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, gotcha. Okay, so we've got reality tv. Okay. Reality tv. Okay.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. But not Housewives. I can't. I've been. I've really, really want to like them. I want to like watching that show,

[Mike Birbiglia]

but I can't watch what happens. No, no.

[Kazi David]

I'm too scared of Andy Cohen. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Huh?

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like you'd be a good

[Kazi David]

fit if he was talking about, like, Love Island. I would go on, but I don't really know the Housewives enough.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

And I don't really want him to, like. I don't want to get a gotcha question, you know, does he have a lot of those? Have you been on the show?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I've never been on.

[Kazi David]

You should go on and let me know how you feel.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I never. I engaged with them once, but it was too much like, hey, do you know about reality shows?

[Kazi David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't really know much about them.

[Kazi David]

Well, I think you should go on, and if you like it, I'll go on after.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, so we got nature.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, nature.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We got trees. We got games.

[Kazi David]

Nature and trees is one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. Nature slash trees. We got games slash. Parlor games.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, reality.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So then we're just at two.

[Kazi David]

Okay. I really like reality TVs.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Three.

[Kazi David]

Not having to leave the house for, like, days.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I respect this so much.

[Kazi David]

And by the way, someone couldn't come out the other night, and their excuse to me was that they've been out three nights in a row, so they just couldn't come out again. And I was like, that is a totally legitimate excuse, and that should be more widely used. It's like, if you have gone out three nights in a row.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I think that's a fair reason to not go out.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, that's totally reasonable. Of course you shouldn't go out again three nights in a row. That's it. That's the time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a great list, by the way. This is the beginning of your next book.

[Kazi David]

Okay, great. I'm gonna.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Chapter four. Not having to leave the house.

[Kazi David]

That's really good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, so we're at.

[Kazi David]

Let's move on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We have nature, trees, games, parlor games. Reality TV number four or not leaving the house.

[Kazi David]

And I need to think of one more, Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

Because the question was five things I love. Okay? I love when my friends come to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the same as not leaving the house.

[Kazi David]

That's fair.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is such bullshit.

[Kazi David]

It's true. Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When my friends come to me.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, well, maybe I'm not at the house, but they're still coming to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, maybe that's bogus. It's just not viable.

[Kazi David]

All right, all right, all right. I got this. I got this. One thing I love. Literally one thing I love.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The games, reality tv. Not having to leave the house.

[Kazi David]

One thing I love. That's not on that list already.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like friends and family are.

[Kazi David]

No, I don't love friends and family. I don't love friends and family. I'm going to take my time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You did thank some of your friends in your acknowledgments.

[Kazi David]

Like, I love the people I thanked, obviously, but I don't love friends and family.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. No, I get it.

[Kazi David]

You know, you get that, right? I love my cats.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's nice.

[Kazi David]

Throw it down. Write it down. Cats.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What is the name of your cats?

[Kazi David]

Link and Mikey.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Link and Mikey in parentheses. Cats.

[Kazi David]

We have nature, games, reality tv, not having to leave the house and my cats.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a good list, though.

[Kazi David]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The. I love the. I love your bio. Because Davis, 31 year old girl, not woman, who has been told by up to two psychics that she has lived many lifetimes and that only this current lifetime is that of a Nepo baby. The other lifetimes were very respectable.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. I do think there are new Nepo babies.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Kazi David]

That haven't lived other lives, perhaps of. Of really, you know, hard past lives.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

And those Nepo babies we can call, you know, like, you're a Nepo baby. Like, shut up. And I feel like I. I think for sure I was at least once a really, really horrible person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Kazi David]

Because the karma I've been getting in this life for certain things, just on a superficial level.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. I would say even just this week, there was a photo taken of me. And I looked at it and I said, I did something so, so bad in a past life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

And. And I know that now for a fact, because.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Bad angle kind of thing.

[Kazi David]

It's. It was like. It was just like. I had to. I can't even explain how bad this was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You hate the photo.

[Kazi David]

It's not even like the worst photo of me. It's the worst photo of anyone that's ever been taken. And it's it. It just. It has to be that I did something really bad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think you're funniest. I think you're. You're up there for funniest. Nepo baby.

[Kazi David]

Thank you. Well, that's not hard, is it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Kazi David]

I mean, who. Like, how many funny Nepo babies are there?

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's not a lot. I think that there's a correlation between a lack of strife.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And comedy.

[Kazi David]

Definitely. Definitely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So it's like, there's like, somehow you ended up with strife.

[Kazi David]

Well, maybe it's my past lives.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. No, no.

[Kazi David]

I had a lot of strife.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. It could. Right. The past lives could have a lot of strife.

[Kazi David]

I will say, though, like, you know, everyone comments on this Napa baby thing, and everyone gets in trouble for whatever they say.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, do they? Oh, I can cut it out if you want.

[Kazi David]

No, no, no. I don't care.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

But I would say that, like, the only. The only real downside, you know, because people will talk about, you know, you have to work. Sometimes people are like, you have to work twice as hard. It's like, no, you don't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

What I would say is that the only downside is that you have to convince people for the rest of your life that you're not the most annoying person on earth.

[Mike Birbiglia]

100%.

[Kazi David]

And I'm. And just that, like, I know that I'll have to keep doing that. Like, I'm just gonna. My goal is just to convince every person I talk to, and maybe that's why I am so annoying, that I'm not truly the worst person alive.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Because that's the assumption. You. Someone's an up, you go, you gotta be the worst person alive.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't think the assumption is the worst person. I. I do think that it is. Like, okay, here's what I'll say. One time I talked to your dad, and I asked him for advice on parenting.

[Kazi David]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I go, how do you.

[Kazi David]

Why would you ask?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, because it's funny. We hadn't met.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think I'd seen your movie. I loved your movie.

[Kazi David]

Cool. Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I urge the listeners of the podcast to see your movie.

[Kazi David]

That's so nice. Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I'm trying to think, John Rudnitski's in it. It's great.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're in it. You're great.

[Kazi David]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, you. Like I was? Because you wrote and directed it and starred in it.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, I. I co wrote it with my. My best friend and co writer and co director, Alisa Kalani.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it's phenomenal.

[Kazi David]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, I, I was blown away by it. Anyway, the point is I asked your dad once, who I only know a little bit, but I said, do you have any advice for parenting? Because. Because your life is not normal. How do you raise a child with any sense of normalcy? And says no first class. So my question is, when did you first fly first class?

[Kazi David]

I can't remember. I will say, like, I just wasn't. I really wasn't aware that I like didn't live a normal life until I got to college.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why college?

[Kazi David]

Because people treated me a little differently. But I did go to like a school, like specifically for like writing comedy and so Harvard. No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where'd you go to school?

[Kazi David]

I went to. It's so much worse at Merson College.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, there you go.

[Kazi David]

Which by the way, there, there's a large.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It has like a comedy major, I

[Kazi David]

think comedy writing major. Teach comedy. So. So, like I feel that way. Maybe you feel differently. I don't think you can teach comedy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think there's some truth to that. I think you can, you can foster something that's already there. Is my gut is. That's my gut.

[Kazi David]

Sure. Yeah, of course you can get better at something you already have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kazi David]

But I don't think you can just like learn comedy from scratch.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I get that.

[Kazi David]

No, yeah, but the school has. Yeah. A comedy major. And every year there's like a large migration from Boston to Los Angeles. Everyone in the school moves to LA to try to like make it in the industry. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it out is supported by Helix. Helix makes award winning sleep products tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. Helix offers a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. 120 nights. I've been a Helix customer myself for many years, since the beginning of this podcast almost six years ago. Everyone on the staff here at Working it out has a Helix mattress. We all really love them. I know a thing or two about sleep and Helix makes the best mattress I've ever slept on. And I've slept on a lot of mattresses. I travel quite a bit, stay in a lot of hotels. Traveling actually can be hard. If I could bring my Helix mattress with me on tour, I would go to helixsleep.combrabigs and you will get. This is a really good deal. 27% off site, wide exclusive for listeners of Mike Birbigli is Working it out. That's helixsleep.com birb I G S for 27% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you. Helixsleep.com Burbigs support for working it out comes from pesti. Pesty is do it yourself pest control. Oh man. If you listen to the show, you know that I've tangled with bugs before. I've had ants in the kitchen. Come on. You know that my wife Jen and I texting each other about the ants. You know that joke? I may have to retire that story soon because I got the pesty smart pest plan. Wow. Well done Pesty. This is a special kit that includes everything you need to take care of your pest problem. The kit includes pro grade pesticide, the same stuff that the pros use, a sprayer, a mixing bag, gloves and instructions you can complete in minutes. With Pesti, you can get started at 35 bucks per treatment with a customized plan based on your location, bugs and climate. I just have to say like that's, that's a lot less than I've. I've paid for my treatments, but not anymore. Now I got Pesti bugs. Hate to see you coming with Pesti. Go to Pesti.com WIO for an extra 10% off your order. Wow, that's a good deal. P-E-S-T-I-E.com WIO for an extra ten percent off. They created a company to deal with my jokes about bugs. Hold on, let me get to my. I have so many questions. I have more questions.

[Kazi David]

I'm going to tell you something right

[Mike Birbiglia]

now, by the way, please.

[Kazi David]

So I've been doing press for this book.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Uh huh.

[Kazi David]

And the press is so people buy the book, right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I get it.

[Kazi David]

And I'm so certain that you know, I'm talking about the book and that people were actually before maybe like, oh that book looks intriguing. Like maybe I'll get it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

And then they hear me talk and they're like actually no, I don't want that. It's like I think I lose a potential customer every time I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Not here. I, I swear, here's what I'll say about the book. I'm gonna make a sal. I'll make it to camera on YouTube. This book is not only. It's a beautiful book.

[Kazi David]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a great gift. It is entirely of your own voice. Like it's so like the same way that your movie is just so your movie. Like it's so of your voice and it's so enjoyable and you feel like you're hanging out with your snarky friend at a wedding who's making fun of everyone.

[Kazi David]

Hang out with her.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, of course you would. No, no, That's a good sell, I think.

[Kazi David]

Okay, thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like your funniest friend at a wedding. That's this book.

[Kazi David]

Thank you. I should have blurbed that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's a good thing. Put that back. Yeah, we get into.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Next to Graydon Carter and Alex Cooper. Who's that?

[Kazi David]

I know, right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, you're on Alex Cooper's podcast, which is apparently a thing. Huge thing, apparently.

[Kazi David]

Big thing. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't know.

[Kazi David]

Kind of like you didn't know about traders.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People say a lot of things about a lot of things.

[Kazi David]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But here's what you wrote on page 37 of your book. A podcaster's only qualifications to give advice on any matter in the known universe. Love, friendship, family, business, public policy, mental health, morality, military strategy. Seem to be the fact that they are alive and have an iPhone. Was this aimed at me because you were elusive as a guest. I saw your movie. I was like, come on the podcast because I'm convinced your movie came out a year and a half ago or so.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Like this time last year I was like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I think I made this case to you. I was like, these. The people who watch this podcast, they're the people who will watch your movie.

[Kazi David]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's the exact people I've have.

[Kazi David]

I've had trouble finding my demographic. It seems to be in the last few years has felt really only like my dad's friends. Like that age range, like truly, like I do really well with 75 year old men.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

Like they love me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

I can say that you're big in the 70s. They like, they get me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I get that. Because you're an old soul.

[Kazi David]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I'm just saying it matter of factly.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, you are right. I would like to say so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

I don't think you can really call yourself an old soul. It just is maybe one of the worst things you could say about yourself, like, along with like, I'm an empath, you know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kazi David]

But thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So your movie. I'm here today to make a case for

[Kazi David]

the funniest Nepo baby.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Funniest Nepo baby. Also make more movies. That was your first movie.

[Kazi David]

It's so funny that you're just like, why are you making more movies? It's like, I'm trying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, but it's like, I know you're trying, but it's not that easy. I get it. I know. I'm making my third movie right now, and it's super, super hard.

[Kazi David]

No, it's like getting someone to really believe in it and help you make it. That's the hard part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I get it.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For people who haven't seen the movie, can you explain the logline of your movie?

[Kazi David]

Yes. It's like a rom com gone wrong that kind of, like, turns into an emotionally abusive relationship. But it's a comedy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Kazi David]

So you're thinking, like, how can you make a comedy about abuse? You'll be the judge, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. The movie is on hbo, Max. It's called I love you forever. It is. The guy who's like, the psychopath is great too. What's the really good name?

[Kazi David]

It's Ray Nicholson.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, so it's Jack Nicholson's son.

[Kazi David]

Another Nepo.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That guy's great.

[Kazi David]

I honestly was so mad. I just. I should have cast just all Nepos and just been like, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What did you like most, and least about directing?

[Kazi David]

What I liked most is just the experience of, like, having something in your head and, like, bringing it to life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

What I liked least was trying to find roundabout ways to get something out of an actor, which is what directing is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You like that the least?

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's funny.

[Kazi David]

I kind of like, a lot of the times I want to just be like. Just don't sound so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So fake.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. So fake.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kazi David]

And because I'm a writer and, like, because, you know, we wrote the script, there's a very specific way you want certain lines to sound, especially when they're jokes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

And so to not. Because actors don't like this. To not be, like, say it literally in this exact way and give them a line reading to try to find ways to make them say it the way you want it to be said without just telling them how to say it. It just felt like it just wasn't my strong suit to do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's interesting because I would never have guessed that from watching the movie because it feels so loose.

[Kazi David]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And natural in the best way.

[Kazi David]

Appreciate that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I can stop talking about the movie, however, I will end on just saying, please make more movies.

[Kazi David]

Thank you. I'm gonna really try. If you know anyone who can help, let me know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It reminded me of when Lena came out with tiny furniture. I remember when that happened, and I

[Kazi David]

was, like, really cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And there was, like, a logic to it that carried over to her series with. With Judd and Jenny Connor. And I felt like that when I saw your movie. I was like, oh, yeah, it could be series, but also like, just could be a string of movies.

[Kazi David]

Thank you. That's really, really nice. I'm trying to take more compliments as a 30 year old woman and, and I, I'm.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm trying to ask more questions.

[Kazi David]

I've been told it's really unseemly to, to not accept the, the compliment by almost everyone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is that right? Yeah, it's unseemly.

[Kazi David]

I've been told that. It's just like I, I'm doing. It's too much. The personality, the self deprecation.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Interesting.

[Kazi David]

I just don't know how to, to, to do anything else. Like, it would just be so fake. I would just be a completely different person if I wasn't like constantly apologizing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

I would have to ask. I would have to make up a new personality.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All right, let's practice. This book is so funny.

[Kazi David]

Thank you. I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know, I know. I know is an interesting way to take it. I know, right?

[Kazi David]

It's so funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Your movie is fantastic. Great story.

[Kazi David]

I know. It's going really well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I don't think it has to be either you don't acknowledge the compliment or you say, I know, I think. I know.

[Kazi David]

What's the other? What's the other. What's the other version? Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thank you is big.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I do think it's. Look, I think compliments are hard to take because even thank you is like, I don't know. Yeah, it's got an energy to it. Thank you. Well, you don't really acknowledge that you agree.

[Kazi David]

There's, if you're talking about something, you kind of have to. There's. There's a part of you, especially if you're someone who also, like makes things. You feel like you kind of have to say something about it. Otherwise, you know that they know that you might not actually have enjoyed it, you know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

Like if I'm talking to like an art, another artist, I use quotes because I really hate that word.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

I know. Of all people, when, like, you have to tread so carefully when talking about someone's work.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure.

[Kazi David]

Like, someone will be like, you know, I really liked it. Like, I thought it was fun. That to me it's like, oh, they hated it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They hated it.

[Kazi David]

And so you have to be careful when talking about work with someone who also makes, you know, you know the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. The worst is when people go, congratulations.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, oh, God.

[Kazi David]

Oh, what about this? Such a. So impressive to make a movie.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So impressive to make a big. Such a big feat to do anything at all.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Such a big feat.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Such a feat.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. That's bad. Like, cute is probably the worst. It's so cute.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's cute. No, it's not cute. As a matter of fact, your mom.

[Kazi David]

My mom likes to say things are cute. That I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, but your mom, the other day on Instagram Stories, you posted a thing where you go, my mom didn't read the book for a while, and then she did read the book, and I asked her what she thought, and I think you. She said, like, I found parts of it disturbing or something.

[Kazi David]

Well, I actually had given it to her months ago, and she read it. When I gave it to her, first of all, she was like, I love the table of contents. And I was like, thanks. That really wasn't, like, something that was supposed to be. And then after she read the table of contents, I did not hear from her, and I. But I knew she started because she had commented on the table of contents, which is the first page.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

And so months went by, and I didn't. She never said anything to me, to me about it. And at some point, I was like, you know, I was kind of scared to ask. You know, when it's the worst thing someone can do is watch your movie, you know, that they started it, or your book, and then never say anything again. A book is better because they could have just fallen off and not finished it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

But I know my mom finished my book.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

And so finally I was like, did you finish reading it? And she was like, I did. And I was like, I could have just been like, all right. Like, that's it. And I was like, well, did you like it? And she was just like, I was, yeah. Very disturbed. Yeah. But it's because my mom, like, reads my book as, like, a mother. Like, she reads all my work as

[Mike Birbiglia]

a mother, of course.

[Kazi David]

But my dad, thankfully, like, he reads my work more as, like, a writer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

So he's not, like, thinking about, like, his daughter while he's reading it. He's, like, thinking about the writing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's great.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. But my mom, like, I don't even know why she reads it at this point.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She. So the word she said was disturbing.

[Kazi David]

Disturbed. Yeah. Which she said she was, like, worried about my mental. My mental health.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was. It's so funny. I was looking for that in the read, and I. I was like, I don't find it disturbing. Even if I imagine you were my daughter. Like, yeah, it didn't. I wasn't like, thank you. I'm worried about this person.

[Kazi David]

I think it's really just like the obsessive thought. My mom's also like the most confident person I've ever met. Like, she cannot understand how she can have a daughter who's so insecure. Like, it just doesn't occur to her.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Gotcha.

[Kazi David]

And I don't know if that's like growing up without social media or like what it is, but to read, I think how like, deeply insecure I can be or like the obsessive thoughts that kind of take over and like, you can't think about anything else, maybe that's what concerned her, but I'm not. I didn't really know either.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I disagree with her.

[Kazi David]

Thanks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I just disagree with her. I think, like, it's. It's so clearly like you're in control of your own whimsy. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think it's like, like un. Unhinged.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. No one's ever said that to me before. Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm just like, embellishing what she said. But like, she, like, if she's saying she like, disturbing. Is that what she said?

[Kazi David]

I think she actually, you know, like, growing up, she was definitely like, concerned for me because I didn't really have an outlet and I just did seem like a really miserable child. Like, I just seemed like unhappy to be alive.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, interesting.

[Kazi David]

And so I think when she realized that I was like, could put it somewhere or I could do something with it, she finally was like, oh, actually, maybe you're okay, right? Yeah, but that was much later in life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Interesting. The other term you coined is too full to fuck.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You wrote an essay about this?

[Kazi David]

Sure did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I think it's pretty self explanatory, I think. So if you're out to dinner.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There reaches a point where there's too much food in you to fuck.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, of course.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you factor that into a dinner date?

[Kazi David]

I think the essay. I think you should read the essay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kazi David]

What I will say is that this is a perfect example of why I. I'm not really a good messenger of my ideas.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Because I think that's a really reasonable

[Mike Birbiglia]

idea, which is that it is a fully reasonable idea.

[Kazi David]

I think people can relate to it. I think they agree. I think it's kind of universally agreed upon. This essay comes out okay. It's incredibly divisive. People say there's something wrong with my anatomy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, sure.

[Kazi David]

Maybe it's, you know, it's so they're criticizing. Problematic. Yes. They think it's insane.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Kazi David]

This concept's insane.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so funny.

[Kazi David]

I never.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I haven't heard this side of it.

[Kazi David]

They also didn't understand that it was satire. I mean, it's real. Yeah, of course it's real, but it's satire.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

I'm not like dead serious.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

Like, this isn't important.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. This should be in the constitution.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Or maybe, or maybe it should be.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But after this came out, Amendment, an amendment.

[Kazi David]

People were really upset. And then two weeks later, it was like memes galore, really, that everyone was like, oh, like I don't want to have sex if I've eaten. Like obviously millions of likes, thousands of comments. This is so me. This is so relatable. And I'm just sitting there like, you know, having been obviously like soft cancelled. The just the gaslighting by the Internet happens to me a lot. I actually think I'm like a horrible age in terms of the Internet because I had to grow up with it in the time of all of this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

But I, I, I'm too old. I feel like I missed the boat for it. Feeling, for feeling really shameless to be posting like myself alone in a room talking.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

I feel like if I was like two years younger, I could have, you know, maybe partake, partaked in that a little bit more.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

And I think if I was older, I would have like totally, like it wouldn't have mattered for my life or my career posting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're like the age 30 through 35ish group. I feel like we've got like the worst deal in social media.

[Kazi David]

Anyone over 35, like it didn't matter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

It didn't matter for their work or like their personal life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I think you're right.

[Kazi David]

The Internet make content younger people. It's like everyone, it's like you're almost born with like this ability to just do that and it feels normal and it doesn't feel normal for me. And it's been really hard to like be working and like wanting to get my like work out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. That is an interesting thing. Do you like, you talk a lot about age in your book? I mean, a lot of it is like celebrating your birthday a year in advance.

[Kazi David]

Well, like not non celebrating my birthday,

[Mike Birbiglia]

non celebrating your birthday a year in advance. But like what do you ever have a thing like people, your frustration with people. Like I'm 47. Like people my age misunderstanding people Your age?

[Kazi David]

Do I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is there, like an annoying. Like, oh, this. They don't get this about people my age or.

[Kazi David]

No, I think I'm spiritually, maybe a boomer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah, you're an old soul.

[Kazi David]

Because I'm an old soul.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Go ahead.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Say you. You should say it.

[Kazi David]

As you all know, I am. I identify as being an old soul. No, I just. I. I think anything that happens on the Internet where everyone agrees upon one thing, there was, like, a time where it was like. Everyone was like, side parts are uncool. Like, I don't. I can't. I'm of the. The boomer generation, where I'm like, I don't understand that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

You know, why are they doing that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's the side part is, like, when you move your hair this way or something?

[Kazi David]

Exactly. I'm not of a. Like, why don't the boomers understand that side parts aren't cool? Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just to be clear, Gen Z, not

[Kazi David]

really come for us right now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm X. Yeah. I'm a hard X.

[Kazi David]

Okay, so maybe I'm a hard ex.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You might be a hard ex.

[Kazi David]

I think we all have, like, a metaphysical age and then our real age. Like, I think I actually, like, 17.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay.

[Kazi David]

Or 75.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Or 75.

[Kazi David]

And I think that makes sense. I think you are probably nine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay. Chris Fleming did a joke in Especially the other Day that I am simultaneously a father and a son. Did you see that?

[Kazi David]

I think if you were comedian like, you probably you. You're like, perpetually a child.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that that's true.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And do you think you have that?

[Kazi David]

Yeah, probably.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You. You write in the book about regretting every decision you've ever made.

[Kazi David]

That's right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What decisions have you made this week that you already regret?

[Kazi David]

Well, I realized that I've gone. I go days without speaking to anyone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

Because, again, I don't like to leave my house.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Fascinating.

[Kazi David]

And every time you have a conversation, because if you don't communicate with people that much, there's, like, a lot of focus on your one conversation.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

So you can have a lot of regrets about that conversation. So when you go from not speaking very often to, like, promoting this book or whatever, I'm talking to so many people sometimes on recorded, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

Scenarios.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Scenarios. Yeah.

[Kazi David]

There's so much that you recall having said. I'm almost like, my brain feels almost broken. How many things I'm regretting having said this week in just so many conversations.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I get that.

[Kazi David]

So I Guess just everything I've said in the last week, especially the stuff I've said that's been recorded, would be my answer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You said that there are things in your book that you wouldn't tell your therapist.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Now that it's out, are you going to tell her?

[Kazi David]

She. I told her not to read it. Like, I told my whole family and my friends, but I think that actually. I've been hoping that wasn't actually an enticing sell.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kazi David]

But people seem to want to read it more when you tell. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I thought that was just, like, an angle.

[Kazi David]

I wasn't really trying to use that as, like, a promotional tactic.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. You're demanding people.

[Kazi David]

So I think if I start telling people, like, you should really read this, like, you'll love it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

They might not read it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They might not read it.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. So maybe I'll tell her to read it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We have a thing in common, which is you use Gilmore Girls as a sort of comfort show.

[Kazi David]

You do, too?

[Mike Birbiglia]

My daughter does.

[Kazi David]

Wow. How old is she?

[Mike Birbiglia]

10. So I watch a lot of it with her. And it's like, I think you do a really good job in the book of getting into what it is, because I've been watching this show. We've watched every. Every episode. Seven. Seven times.

[Kazi David]

Who's your favorite? Rory? Boyfriend.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I. If you said the names, I would

[Kazi David]

be able to say there's just Logan and Dean.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Logan.

[Kazi David]

Interesting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What does it say about me?

[Kazi David]

You. You aspire to be a clean and sophisticated guy. I don't know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What would Dean mean? He's like, a bad boy.

[Kazi David]

No, Jess, is the bad boy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay?

[Kazi David]

Yeah. Dean sucks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Kazi David]

And if you like him, you're dumb.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I had. There was one thing the other day where there was a breakup. It was the friends breakup.

[Kazi David]

Lane's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It was Lane's breakup.

[Kazi David]

Or Paris.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, it was Lane's breakup. And it was like, them being like, men are the worst. Boys are the worst. You know, I had to be like, una. There's one exception to this in the world. It's me.

[Kazi David]

That's hilarious. There's, like, a lot. There's so. I mean, the show is so great for so many reasons, but the reason it's my comfort show is obviously just because, like, nothing really bad ever happens in it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think that you nailed that in your book. You have a whole run on, like, what it is about. Bet me. Because it's not like the world.

[Kazi David]

No, I talk about it a lot, actually. Like, maybe too much.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, but it's. There's no, there's no real conflict.

[Kazi David]

No, there's no real conflict. It's like a.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like a town in Connecticut where there's no actual conflict.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. It's only just like, family problems and like, relationship issues.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

You want. Especially when you're going to sleep.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Exactly. In a certain way. It's like really just about like a mother and daughter, like, being best friends and then like having bumpy days.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. I'm just worried that I'm going to be like 80 years old and like, needing to watch Gilmore Girls on a laptop to escape. Like, that is really where I'm headed. Like, that's a real problem.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right.

[Kazi David]

Because already I didn't expect to be watching it still at 31.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

You know, I watched Go to Sleep when I was like, probably your daughter's age. I don't really remember when it came out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that seems right.

[Kazi David]

I've been watching it forever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Seems right.

[Kazi David]

But the fact that I still need to watch it to, like, feel better. I'm soon I'm going to be older than everyone in the show and I'm going to be like, needing it. Like, that's just not okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so funny when you point out that you looked up Lorelai's age and it's 32 and you're 31.

[Kazi David]

I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you thought you were Rory.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. It's like, when does that happen?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. That's wild.

[Kazi David]

Do you believe your age? Like, I feel like it's a real thing that, like, nobody can actually believe that they are the age they are.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't know. I do not believe my age. Yeah, it's very confusing to me.

[Kazi David]

Like, every time you're reminded of it, you're like, how is that possible? How did that happen?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it's confusing. I. But I also feel like when I was 12, people thought I was 40.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And now I'm 47, they think I'm 40. Like, it's all just one lump of 40.

[Kazi David]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, yeah. I always had like a middle aged vibe when I was a kid. I don't know. Do you have any relationship deal breakers

[Kazi David]

looking through your phone?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's big.

[Kazi David]

Yeah. And some people would think that's toxic that I would say that, because it's like you would only care if you had something on your phone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

But I just think it's just like a you. It can't be done.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

Have you gone through your wife's phone before?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No way.

[Kazi David]

You would never. No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

As a matter of fact, we've talked about it before. I think going through the person's phone or their. Like, their journal.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is worse than.

[Kazi David]

Oh, I think you can go through someone's journal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Kazi David]

Yeah. That's you. If they keep a journal, you can go through it. You should not keep a journal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If they keep a journal, you can go through it.

[Kazi David]

The amount of trust you have as a person, if you have a journal, like, that's not realistic. Yeah. You can't have a journal, like, sitting around. How old are you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, I'm 47.

[Kazi David]

Do you have a journal?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, of course I do.

[Kazi David]

Do it on your laptop. That it needs to be lock and key. Private.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Now you're making me worried. But you know, what's the worst thing that could happen?

[Kazi David]

Okay, but if you died, would you want someone to read it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Kazi David]

You wouldn't?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Kazi David]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I always say burn the journals, Right?

[Kazi David]

When you die. Burn it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. When I die, I need everyone in my life to just burn my journals. That's how I feel about it.

[Kazi David]

I think it's a good, like, for your funeral, you should have a journal burning.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Journal burning at the funeral. Let it be known on this podcast today you need those journals. Journal burning is going to be a crucial part of my funeral.

[Kazi David]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It was Cassie David's idea. All right. That's great. In your book, you wrote, no one, except maybe my dad, saw me being a hater as a welcome quirk.

[Kazi David]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What did he understand about you that other people don't?

[Kazi David]

Well, I just really feel like there was a time before now that being a hater was, like, you know, a good thing in society.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

We turned to them to know, like, you know, what was. What's wrong with what we're liking or what we're enjoying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

And now you're just kind of like an outlier of society. You're like the worst of the people. And I was just wondering, like, when. When did that happen, you know, and why? When I'm alive? Like, that just seems really unfair.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Kazi David]

I don't think anyone respects the hater now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting.

[Kazi David]

Especially since there's the term the hater. Like, there wasn't that term before you were a critic or you were like, a philosopher.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Kazi David]

You know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I get that. I think that it's. I. I think that it ends up being a challenge for us as comedy writers to just be funny enough that people don't notice it as hate.

[Kazi David]

Yeah, that's really good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the challenge of the whole thing.

[Kazi David]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because all of it all my jokes, whatever, they're all based in some kind of. I don't know if it's hate, but like frustration. Yeah, like annoyance.

[Kazi David]

So are you saying if they notice the hate, it's not funny enough?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And I don't notice it with you. That's why I'm. I'm saying it as a compliment.

[Kazi David]

Okay. Because I don't agree with you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's that?

[Kazi David]

I don't know if people would agree with you. I feel like all. I mean, for me, a lot of what I see is hate. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The way people describe you.

[Kazi David]

No, what I. My writing, like what I'm writing about, like I'm hating. I'm like constantly hating. And I think it's fine. Like, I think it should be accepted.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't think it's hate. I really don't. I think it's like you're. You're roasting everything, which is like kind

[Kazi David]

of another word for hating.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Support for working it out comes from article. Article offers a curated range of mid century modern, coastal and Scandinavian inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with nearly any other article product. I love this article furniture. They have a thoughtful design approach that makes it incredibly easy to mix and match, helping you create a space that feels cohes as well as stylish. I feel like if you went on the article website, you could spend hours there. I was on the site and I got this little bookcase and a little rug. They all sort of have a nice matching color palette. With Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. The peace of mind ensures that you can invest in your home without hesitation. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100. Or claim that visit article.comwio for working it out and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com wio for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Working it out is supported by Rula. Let's talk about therapy for a second. We talk about therapy all the time on this show. I've talked about it with Gary Goleman with Sarah Sherman. That was a good episode where we talk about therapy. I've been in therapy. I know firsthand. Sometimes navigating mental health care can be challenging. Here's the thing about Rula. Rula helps to make that part easier. Rula works with major insurance plans. Sessions can cost as little as $15 and in some case $0 depending on what your benefits are. Rula isn't just a directory. They help book appointments. They stay on top of your schedule and keep track of progress so you actually can get somewhere with therapy. Whether it's therapy or medication management, Rula makes it simple to get the full scope of care you need. No time wasted navigating between platforms or offices. Thousands of people have already used RULA to finally get the care they needed. Go to rula.com burbigs and get started today. That's R U L A.com Burbigs take the first step. Get connected. Take control of your mental health. The final thing we do is working out for a cause. Is there a nonprofit that you like to contribute to? And then we will contribute and then link to them in the show notes to encourage others.

[Kazi David]

Oh wow. I mean anything that has any organization for immigration right now I think is the most important.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's great. We are going to contribute to Legal Aid society, which is legalaid nyc.org Great. Kazi, this is fantastic. Is there anything else you want to hit before we go?

[Kazi David]

Oh my God. I like. I feel like I have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't even know I'm gonna sell the book more. The book is great. It's called Delusions by Cassie David. The movie's great. I Love youe Forever. I can't wait for more books and more movies.

[Kazi David]

Oh God, I really hope there's no more. I hope I never write another book again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, maybe we'll cut that. No, no, I was thinking that. Insert that earlier. Working it Out. Cause it's not done. We're working it out because there's no one that'll do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Kazi on Instagram at Kazzy David. Her new book Delusions is out now. She co, wrote, co directed and co stars in the movie I Love you Forever, which is on HBO Max. Check out Burbigs.com to sign up for my mailing list and sign up for the text message alerts. Join the Brabilia familiar with the bonus episodes on Apple Podcasts by signing up for premium. You can watch the full episode of this on our YouTube channel ikeverbiglia and subscribe over there because we're posting more and more videos. Our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Ben Cruz Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonov and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows, of course. Always thanks most of all to you who are listening and supporting the show. If you if you like it, rate us, review us on Apple Podcasts. Almost 5,000 user ratings at this point. It's very exciting. It helps us out well over 200 episodes. If you say what your favorite one is over there, it helps new people find where to start. Thanks most of all to you who listen to the show, tell your friends, tell your enemies, which I've heard you've done, and thank you. And oh, you. You know, you could tell the bobcat outside your house. I know in many places it's illegal to relocate bobcats, but it's not illegal to give them podcast recommendations. Hey, Bobcat, I know you're not a human and don't necessarily know what comedy is, but while you're roaming around here, you might want to try this podcast called Mike Birbigli is Working It Out. It's where Mike Birbiglia talks to other comedy folks about the creative process. There's even occasionally some Bobcat talks about Bobcats and Jane Cats. All right, here we go. Thanks, everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time. Bobcats and Jane Cats. Come on.