213. Jack Antonoff Returns: Music’s Biggest Producer Records Mike’s Pizza Song

Summary

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Podcast Episode Summary

Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out – Episode 213

Guest: Jack Antonoff
Air Date: May 18, 2026
Title: Jack Antonoff Returns: Music’s Biggest Producer Records Mike’s Pizza Song

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Episode Overview

In this lively and playful episode, comedian Mike Birbiglia reunites with friend and musical superstar Jack Antonoff (Bleachers, producer for Taylor Swift, Lorde, etc.) to workshop new material — most notably Mike’s brand new comedy song “Remember Pizza.” The pair riff on creativity, authenticity, and friendship while collaborating on the song, giving listeners a unique, behind-the-scenes look at their creative process. They also dig into concepts like artistic loyalty, the balance of sincerity and novelty, the mysteries behind art-making, and the beauty of not over-intellectualizing creativity. The tone is warm, off-the-cuff, and refreshingly sincere.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Friendship, Loyalty, and Fame

• Both Mike and Jack reminisce about their early careers and tight, loyal fan bases.
• Jack shares that he’s always focused on engaging deeply with his original audience rather than looking for new validation:

  “The longer you do something, you can either look elsewhere for more people to come in or just drive deeper into what’s happening. ... I would never take my eye off of them.”
  [07:24]

• They joke about podcasting as eavesdropping — listeners as people overhearing interesting conversations.

  “There’s nothing I would love more than to be at a restaurant alone and hearing a couple argue. ... Entering people’s subconscious in that kind of way is what this form does.”
  – Jack Antonoff [10:04]

2. Sincerity and the Power of Staying “You”

• The importance of going deeper with a devoted audience instead of performing for mass appeal is emphasized:

  “My only goal is to become more and more specific...to be just how us we were.”
  – Jack Antonoff [27:10]

• Jack discusses how on stage and in the studio, he feels most free, present, and less anxious:

  “Second I get on stage, I become in my head what I’ve always seen as a free, normal person.”
  [28:04]

3. Artistry, Magic, and Process

• Jack distinguishes between learned craft and the inexplicable “magic” of creativity:

  "There's such a difference between craft and magic. The magic is just when you're hit with something...you have no idea how it comes."
  [36:45]

• Jack pushes back on the increasing pressure to itemize and rationalize creativity (what he calls "masterclass thinking"):

  "Do you really think you can buy a subscription to something and have Martin Scorsese tell you what Martin Scorsese is?"
  [38:24]

• Both agree that the truest artistic moments can’t be explained or taught—they emerge from a mysterious, subconscious place.

4. Nostalgia, Routine & the Inspiration of the Everyday

• Discussion of musical influences, earliest concerts (Aerosmith & Collective Soul for Jack), and the fresh, un-selfconscious mindset of early morning writing.
• Jack describes how dreams and the protection of that barely-awake state help him write more deeply:

  "Dreaming is so protected, right? ... If you wake up and look at your phone, that dream world dies. Yeah, you’re gone."
  [43:27]

5. Working Out The Pizza Song (“Remember Pizza”)

• The heart of the episode: Mike shares his comedic song “Remember Pizza,” and Jack helps him musically and conceptually shape it, even breaking down chords and the comedic “Trojan horse” of the song.
• Core idea: Truly great things don’t need advertising; only lesser things are advertised.

  “There are no ads for good pizza. There are only ads for bad pizza. ... If something’s great, it doesn’t need to be told.”
  – Jack Antonoff [55:21]

• Jack encourages Mike to use the “Remember Pizza” refrain as a way to broach deeper themes about joy, distraction, and authenticity:

  "The song is 'Remember Pizza'—but that's just the Trojan horse. What it's really about is, why would you market pizza if it was good?"
  [54:27]

• The pair riff chord changes, lyrics, and joke structure; the songwriting session is a playful, musical “yes, and” improv.
  • Notable moment:

    “I would change the chord on the chorus.”
    – Jack Antonoff, as they jam [48:38]

6. On Vulnerability & Creative Collaboration

• Mike candidly admits the nerves of sharing a raw, amateur song with a pro.

  “This is kind of insane that I'm even showing you this because you're the best musician I know.”
  [47:19]

• Jack empathizes, reminding Mike that comedians often make powerful musicians precisely because of their openness and ability to Trojan-horse feeling with humor.

7. Reflections on Art, Legacy, and Relationships

• The legacy question:

  “If the band fell into a volcano tomorrow, what do you wish the legacy would be?”
  – Evan, Jack’s bandmate [26:22]
  “I would want the legacy to be just how ‘us’ we were.”
  – Jack Antonoff [27:10]

• Jack talks sincerely about how love and marriage (Margaret Qualley) have made him more secure and doubled down on his core self:

  “Meeting her makes me feel like I could take all the shame in the world. I don’t care. But now there’s someone I want to be great for.”
  [31:30]

• They touch on the negative myth-making in pop culture about marriage, touring, and making art; Jack is eager to tell a different story—one rooted in actual experience and joy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On Artistic Loyalty:
  "With me, I would never take my eye off of them ... You lose the people you're in deep conversation with. The very act of looking for something else inherently sucks."
  – Jack Antonoff [08:16]

• On the Magic of Art-Making:
  "There's such a difference between craft and magic ... The magic is when you're hit with something that matters."
  – Jack Antonoff [36:45]

• The “Pizza Song” Punchline:
  "There are no ads for good pizza. There are only ads for bad pizza. Good pizza is confident in their work. ... But bad pizza's like, 'we'll do anything!'"
  – Mike Birbiglia [51:04]

• Trojan Horse Theory for Comedy Songs:
  "Like, 'Born in the USA'—people think that’s what it is but it’s about Vietnam. ... Remember Pizza, what it’s really about is: the idea that anything advertised is right. And that we've come to a world where things mean the opposite."
  – Jack Antonoff [54:27]

• On Early Morning Creativity & Dreams:
  "Dreaming is so protected, right? ... You're more tethered to those dreams. That dream state, which is like your true subconscious telling you what's going on with you, is more present in your awake reality."
  – Jack Antonoff [42:52]

• Vulnerability of Creativity:
  "You know, there's something about it where I'm like, I'm trying to consider...Very serious."
  – Mike Birbiglia [60:29]

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Highlighted Segments & Timestamps

• (06:08–07:12) – Reminiscing about small gigs, audience loyalty, and starting out
• (08:49–10:22) – The “looking away” theory: staying loyal to your core audience
• (17:04–18:43) – Discussing songs/albums that profoundly changed Jack
• (21:20–22:44) – Jack on recording, sonic fullness, and minimalism in production
• (26:22–27:16) – The “volcano legacy” question and the importance of authenticity
• (28:54–30:28) – Finding presence and freedom on stage
• (36:35–39:02) – The magic vs. craft debate in songwriting
• (47:19–51:01) – The “Remember Pizza” jam and writing session with chord advice
• (54:27–55:59) – Trojan horse concepts and “no ads for good pizza” metaphor
• (60:13–61:17) – On vulnerability, adding music to live comedy, and mutual encouragement

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Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode is an intimate look at how two top creators encourage each other’s risk-taking and vulnerability while revealing both the craft and the mystery at the heart of comedic songwriting. The conversation, inflected with inside jokes, sincerity, and open artistic process, showcases how deep creative friendship can produce something unexpected and joyful — in this case, a song that’s about pizza but really about paying attention to what’s truly good in life, beneath the noise, trends, and ads.

Jack’s new Bleachers album Everyone for 10 Minutes is celebrated throughout, and fans gain genuine insight into how he (and Mike) think about art, the world, and their own legacies.

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For Further Listening

• Hear the full “Remember Pizza” demo and more creative riffs on the [YouTube episode video].
• Upcoming tour dates, exclusive content, and new material are available at [Burbigs.com].

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Transcript

[Jack Antonoff]

I said I wanted to be more sincere this morning in my head.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Because I've been doing that on other places.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's nice.

[Jack Antonoff]

Didn't you find the clips of Stern very sincere?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. On Stern, I thought you were great, but I didn't see the whole thing. The truth is, I saw clips.

[Jack Antonoff]

I have a theory on this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's your theory?

[Jack Antonoff]

The only. So you saw clips and I was like, well, why didn't you watch the whole hour I was on Stern? You're like, you know, I will. Which is not true. But if I said, well, I talked about you, then I think you'd watch the whole hour.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'd subscribe.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think. I think. I think you would. I think you would Kool Aid man through any paywall. If I was like, well, I talked about your special. A couple minutes on it, you'd be like, oh, cool. And then you're like, I'm watching that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. Which is.

[Jack Antonoff]

Here's the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That. That's a case for. We should just mention a lot of people casually on the podcast today.

[Jack Antonoff]

Totally.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then. Because they'll.

[Jack Antonoff]

They'll find it to it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They'll find it.

[Jack Antonoff]

Frank Langella was great in Frost Nixon.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, he's fantastic. Frank Langella was great.

[Jack Antonoff]

Frank Langella. Here's a Frank Langella story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Never gonna say I love the Indigo Girls.

[Jack Antonoff]

Me too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I went to a bunch of their concerts when I was in college and.

[Jack Antonoff]

Brilliant.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. And even high school, actually.

[Jack Antonoff]

Really?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I enjoy.

[Jack Antonoff]

I enjoy John Bernthal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

John Bernthal's very talented. Are you kidding me?

[Jack Antonoff]

Of course, John Bernthal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Rami was here the other day. Ramy Youssef was here.

[Jack Antonoff]

Nice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Great guy. Very funny. New special.

[Jack Antonoff]

Joey Bag of donuts, my brother.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, he's already listening. He's a producer of the podcast.

[Jack Antonoff]

That doesn't mean he's listening. Yeah, now we can guarantee he's listening. We're working it out.

[Peter Salamone]

Cause it's not done.

[Jack Antonoff]

Working it out.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

That is the voice of the great Jack Antonoff. Jack Antonoff is back. He is the lead singer of the band Bleachers. Jack is on the podcast today partly to celebrate his new album, which comes out this Friday. Everyone, for 10 minutes, I have listened to an advanced copy. It is amazing. I could not recommend it more highly. We became friends many, many years ago. You might know him from performing the soundtrack to this very show. As a matter of fact, today on the show, we're premiering his new version of the soundtrack of the show, in addition to premiering a song that I wrote. I wrote a song called Remember Pizza that I share with him today.

[Jack Antonoff]

I haven't.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Keep in mind, this is a, this is the hook, but also the disclaimer. I haven't written a song in like 20 years.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And my.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

On my first album I wrote Guitar Guide, the Party and the Oatmeal song about Christian rock.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I actually haven't written a song

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

in a super long time. And if I were going to write a song, which I did, I in real life would bring it to Jack.

[Mabel Lewis]

So.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

And, and in this case I did, except we were rolling video and rolling audio. And so you do get a firsthand inside look into what our conversations are like when we're riffing on something. You know, he's done a. He and I've done a lot of like comedy songs over the years. Like he did a song for the end of the new one. I used his Redhurst song at the end of the Old man in the Pool. I'm just a huge, huge fan of his work and I've been lucky enough to collaborate on some little, you know, riffs through the years. And so anyway, it's a really unique episode today. You probably know Jack Antonoff. He's produced albums and written songs for Taylor Swift and Lorde and Lana Del Rey and St. Vincent and Pink, Florence and the Machine, Kendrick Lamar, Sabrina Carpenter, Doja Cat and more. He's won 13 Grammy awards. That's just one of the things he's done. He's won 13 Grammy awards. He's a very accomplished person. He's won Producer of the year at the Grammys three consecutive times from 2022 to 2024. We could, I mean, I could, I could talk about, I could talk all day about, about all the things that Jack has done, but you probably know, or you could look it up. He has a new album coming out called everyone for 10 minutes. This is on the heels of Strange Desire as well as Gone Now Take the Sadness out of Saturday Night and the self titled Bleachers album. These are all great albums, by the way. When I saw them play Madison Square Garden, I was like, oh, it's just every, every song they play is, is a hit. So we work out a song today on the show which is very unique. On every episode we try to work out material. Also I've been working out even more material over on the Working it out premium feed on Apple podcasts. I did one recently with Pete Holmes working where we work out listeners jokes, we play listeners jokes, and we punch up those. If you want to subscribe to the premium feed, Go to Apple podcasts, and it's $4.99 a month. And you get no ads on any of these episodes. You support our show, which we appreciate. It's an independent production, and you get those bonus episodes. This summer, I'm doing a few dates I wanted you to know about. I'll be in Montreal in July. I'll also be in Nantucket in July. Those tickets go on sale soon. All of it on Burbigs.com Sign up for the mailing list is the best way to know, just in case that's going to go to spam, which sometimes happens. If you text burbigs birb I g s to 917-444-7150. You will absolutely be the first to

[Mike Birbiglia]

know about my upcoming shows.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

You can watch the full video of this episode, which is very interesting because we both have. I don't know if you can tell this from listening. We both are playing guitars for part of the episode. That's a very unique thing. I think that's definitely a first. But you can watch the whole thing on YouTube and subscribe if you. If you're interested, because we're posting more and more videos. We really appreciate it.

[Jack Antonoff]

Enjoy my chat with the great Jack Antonoff.

[Peter Salamone]

There's always a couple more jokes to explore, but let's make more.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I saw you at Madison Square Garden last summer. I'm gonna see you again this summer.

[Jack Antonoff]

You're gonna come to MSG again? Yep. I think you. It's one of the experience at that show that is very different than a lot of people because you have a unique experience of seeing me play to six to 15 people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Many, many times.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So, yeah, I've seen the smallest shows. I've seen the biggest shows. I saw you Madison Square Garden. I saw you at the place in Jersey that's super small with Steel Train.

[Jack Antonoff]

Oh, yeah. You were always kind of big to me because you always had an audience. I realize now, I realize now that those shows were small. But my barometer of my whole life as someone who is like, big is someone who had an audience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

And there was always, like, I never saw you play to no one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I played to no one.

[Jack Antonoff]

I know you did.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

I know you did.

[Jack Antonoff]

By the time I met you, I think you had like a hundred people showing up everywhere.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

Which is a huge achievement.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, it is. Because big time. Yeah. Well, you and I always have this thing in common, which is we both started with a cult, very small group of people who Are like, that's my person.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And. And you and I. And you speak to this on the album. You're very loyal to those people. Like, you have a song where you're like, everybody else.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think I say that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love that song.

[Jack Antonoff]

They.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is such an anthem for your fans.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, they are literal and representative. So, like, yeah, they're literally group people, but they also represent. Like, you know, the longer you do something, you've, like, you essentially have two choices. You can either, like, look elsewhere for more people to come in or just drive deeper and deeper into what's happening. And I think I told you this theory before about the whole looking away theory.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

What is it?

[Jack Antonoff]

So think about this constant. You know, when you're at a party and someone's talking to you or anywhere, and then they go like this. And your heart breaks into a million pieces, because in that one glance, it's like, is there something better out there? It's not like a subtle thing you can come back from. It's like telling your partner you're not sure or something. It's not possible. It's. The whole deal is broken.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think about that. With me, I would never take my eye off of them. It doesn't mean people aren't allowed in, but, like, I'm talking right to them, and I see. I would never name names, but I see other people artistically go like, you know, like, is there someone over there that's better? And never recover for a million reasons. First of all, you lose the people you're in deep conversation with. As you should. But also, the very act of looking for something else inherently sucks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, like. Like, I don't want to hear from anyone who doesn't want to be in conversation with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. So in a way, you did that look away when you went on Stern this week.

[Jack Antonoff]

Mike's turned into a full Gotcha podcast. Maybe. What happened?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Take it out.

[Jack Antonoff]

Did we run out of money?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, we ran out of money.

[Jack Antonoff]

No, you don't take anything out. You should go full well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Gotcha.

[Jack Antonoff]

Do you want me to Gotcha?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You sure?

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, why don't you talk about. Why don't you just get into the depths of, like. Like, your films and what you're humming on, which is, like, friendship, art, and those who sort of, like, stray and those who come back and those who get a little bit. What I'm talking about, you know, like, the poisons of success.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, what's.

[Jack Antonoff]

What's that been like for you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

If I did 200 episodes of my own podcast about my own fascinations.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, I'm asking for one, but go on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Friendship, love, et cetera. People would be so bored. They would. They would listen to one of the other million podcasts.

[Jack Antonoff]

I'm not sure they would.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Here's my theory. On podcasts, I think it's like, the feeling of, like, you know, when you're somewhere and you hear some other people talking.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And it's like, a wonderful experience.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like. Like. Like, there's nothing I would love more than to be, like, at a restaurant alone and hearing, like, a couple argue a hundred percent. I think that is essentially, like, entering people's subconscious in that kind of way is what this form does. I love that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You think that's your theory.

[Jack Antonoff]

Who else said it?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, like, Bill Burr. Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

John Barenthal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

John Barenthal. Definitely tuning in now.

[Jack Antonoff]

But you think he said that? You think Frank Langello said that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, Frank Langella did say that, famously.

[Jack Antonoff]

Really?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Okay. You don't know that. You think Andy Milonakis said that? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And said it on Squirt TV on MTV in the 90s. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

You think all your old comedy buddies, Dimitri, Martin, Merman. Yeah. They all said that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. They also.

[Jack Antonoff]

The Rafifi crew. Is that what it was?

[Mike Birbiglia]

They've all said.

[Jack Antonoff]

Is that what it was?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Jesus.

[Jack Antonoff]

Is that what it was? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That was part of my crew. Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. I always saw you as outside of everything, in a good way. Thanks. You, too. I feel the same way about myself, but I never saw you as attached to anything other than Seth Barish.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

You know why?

[Jack Antonoff]

I think now Seth's listening.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, now Seth's listening. The Barrow group is listening.

[Jack Antonoff]

John Bernthal's like, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what part of it is you're saying? Like, I'm not part of a group.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't stay past midnight.

[Jack Antonoff]

You think it's that?

[Mabel Lewis]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

I'm convinced that the people who stay

[Mike Birbiglia]

past midnight are part of the crew.

[Jack Antonoff]

You might be right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it all happens past midnight. But then.

[Jack Antonoff]

And then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But then the. You and me is the world.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Because you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're always home by midnight.

[Jack Antonoff]

Way before that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're, like, waking. Waking up and, like, writing.

[Jack Antonoff]

And the only time I'm out past midnight is if it's, like, serious work stuff. So maybe people have an energy at me. Like. Like, he's. Yeah, I think you're right. Like, even the band, they're like, stuff happens after I leave. Oh, 100%, like, real, like, friendship building. Stuff.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I got questions from your band today.

[Jack Antonoff]

You did?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I asked. I asked your parents. I asked your band for questions.

[Jack Antonoff]

Anything from John Bernthal?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, we got John Bernthal. So you're. So your dad Rick says he had four questions. Number one, do you have a backup plan in case this music adventure doesn't work out? Number two.

[Jack Antonoff]

Adventure? Yeah, because that's very.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is a quote. Number two, why can't you call your sister more often?

[Jack Antonoff]

What?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Number three, can you include your parents more in your stuff? Never. Or can mom send you a flute track that she recorded?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

But here's what your dad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's very.

[Jack Antonoff]

If he had better. If he was better at, like, the craft of it, he could have been a comedian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's very funny.

[Jack Antonoff]

He doesn't have the structure. Like, you know, like there's a craft and then there's like a. Just like a natural thing. He has the natural thing. Like the use of the word adventure there is very funny to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's strong.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then she raised. Hold on. Your mom is so sweet.

[Jack Antonoff]

She doesn't love you. She finds you a little, like, a little into your own thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm like, looking. Looking around her at parties.

[Jack Antonoff]

She said that she wanted to go see you on Broadway. And you just. You just. You sent her house seats that she had to pay for.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. It's completely natural.

[Jack Antonoff]

And when I worked on Broadway, I got her free tickets. Because the truth about Broadway, which no one wants to say, is that there are free tickets. You know, there's free tickets. If John Bernthal or Frank Langella or Andy Milakis came to the show, they're coming for free.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

If your cousin wants to co. They get. Then all of a sudden, there's no free seats.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah, she gave my mom tickets to your shows. She supported you for a long time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Your mom always has free tickets to my show.

[Jack Antonoff]

That's not what she said. She always says, I think she paid for the new one.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Okay.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think she paid for Two Drink Mike. Broadway at the Winter Garden.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Your mom.

[Jack Antonoff]

You think Two Drink Mike sells out the Winter Garden?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Does the Winter Garden still exist?

[Jack Antonoff]

Wait, a curse.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where Death of a Salesman is?

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. Do you think.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What are you talking about?

[Jack Antonoff]

You think you could blow out Death of a Salesman, bring in Two Drink Mike in that yell he does. He'd be like, it's a fucking classic. That's what Mike sounds like to me. It's a fucking classic. You want to hear my impression of an entire Mike show really quickly?

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is Insane.

[Jack Antonoff]

The sweater. And the sweater was tight. The sweater, I can't move. And then anyone. And then the lights dim. And then I took off the sweater, and I was a dad. That's. That's. That is a mic show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Fade to black.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. Then my haircut. And then I lost a dad because of my haircut. And then I had to go to the haircut. Then I had to shave my head and look like a fucking idiot. And then I look at Chloe and she goes. It was never. The hair faded black. And the NPR was just like, is that not it?

[Mabel Lewis]

Oh, God.

[Jack Antonoff]

And in that moment, looking at the Pope, I turned to Chloe and I said, let's buy that car.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Pay to buy.

[Jack Antonoff]

And then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, that is.

[Jack Antonoff]

That not it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, that is. That's definitely an interpretation.

[Jack Antonoff]

Someone would have your form. Right, but that's what that was, an interpretation. Somebody would have who's seen you a million times over the past many decades, I think. So. To me, that what I just presented was like, if an alien came down and was just like, show me the heart of a mic show. That was that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

AI.

[Jack Antonoff]

I pulled everything else out. AI Aliens are not AI. Aliens are the opposite of AI.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is from Shira. Ask Jack if he thinks Rick is short. Your dad.

[Jack Antonoff]

My dad has done a weird thing. Lying about your height is a crazy. He's done it our whole lives. There's no.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He lied.

[Jack Antonoff]

He's been lying about his. His whole life. But it's the weirdest thing, because it's like. It's. It's almost like camp. Like what. Like, what do you.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Canadian girlfriend at camp?

[Jack Antonoff]

No, like, camp.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Oh, camping.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like the genre.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Okay. Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like the opposite of like. And in that moment, I was a father. Mike's the opposite of camp. In maybe Shade to Black, he's almost camp because he's so the opposite of camp.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Anyway,

[Jack Antonoff]

my dad's lied about his height his whole life, which is an insane thing. It's sort of like it's the lady doth protesting. Not even too much. Like a ridiculous amount. It's like no one even asked.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He always goes on these world adventures.

[Jack Antonoff]

He goes everywhere. But then every time I see him,

[Mike Birbiglia]

he'll be like, I went to Chile.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He'll be like, I went to Taiwan.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think they pronounce Chile differently. But. But we can. I'm sure you don't have much of an audience there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I asked your band members questions, and

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Zem said, what are your top memories

[Mike Birbiglia]

of listening to music that you wish could stay with you forever.

[Jack Antonoff]

Classic Zem to just take it home with an actual question, a real question. My. My guess is it's the. From the band that's the only one that has any sincerity.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think Hutches is good, too.

[Jack Antonoff]

Probably like to be a piece of you. Piece of. Zam's question. What's. What was it? Memories that I wish I could take with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, the first time you hear things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And I still get it all the time, but. But I'll never forget the first time I heard Tom Waits's Foreign affairs or, like Refused, Shape of Punk to come Airs Moon Safari. These. These complete classics that you know you're being changed in real time. A lot like falling in love with someone or even a tragedy happen. There's very few moments in life where you know you're being changed in real time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Right.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

This is nice, but this is not that. But if someone came in here and pointed a gun at us, we would know we were being changed in real time. If, you know there's a good and bad. So I've had moments like that with, like, what are classic albums to me, where I could feel myself becoming different as I was listening. Yeah, I had that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think I. I mean, it's hard to tell until it's retrospect, but I feel like I had that listening to your album yesterday.

[Jack Antonoff]

Thanks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where I'm. I'm on the subway. I'm listening to it, heading into the city. I love the subway and I love listening to music on the subway. And I just had like, oh, my God, this is. And honestly, no one's heard it. You're kind of. I know, but this. This comes out the week it comes out.

[Jack Antonoff]

Oh, cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was really moved by it. I felt like it was. I mean, I say this as the highest compliment. It was the most you. Of any of your albums. And that's saying a lot because your other albums are very you.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, it's really for people who know me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's like I'm. The things I'm talking about. It's not. There's like a broadness missing from it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it's not broad.

[Jack Antonoff]

No, it's super. I think music is. Could be enjoyed by lots of people. But I think, yeah, the lyrics are pretty clear.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think sonically, it's different, too.

[Jack Antonoff]

Very well recorded at all. Different.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Oh, did you.

[Jack Antonoff]

I get really literal with process.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, sonically, I'm of course, an amateur, so. So I'm going to say, like, really general things.

[Mabel Lewis]

It.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It seems fuller, the sound well, there's less in it.

[Jack Antonoff]

And one thing I've noticed about Sonics is so, like. So the opposite. No, no, I'm actually not making fun of you right now. You can make things fuller with less.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jack Antonoff]

Because. So you have to see. You see the sonic field as a circle. Right. You have two ears, if you're lucky. Let's say you hear out of both of them correctly or at the highest level, and you hear things back here, and then they move around. So it's not left and right. Right, right. It's things move around. So if I go like this and then I move it here, it's a circle. Move it here, and then reverberations hit in that way too. So when we're recording, we're imagining it like a circle. So, like, perfect example, if you do a backup vocal, it's like, we don't just chuck it on the right. It's like. Yeah, maybe put it on the right. And then we put some reverb on it that kind of trails off and moves left. Oh, so if it just was on the right, move left. It would go like this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

If the reverb grows at the same time, it goes like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's getting further away and moving. So think of a circle. That circle is finite.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

No matter how many people want to create new ways of listening, at most this, at most that, blah, blah, blah. There's essentially a group of frequencies we can hear. And there's a limit to that. So when in the end, it's something I play with. So the more you add, the more you just press up against these circular walls.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

The less you add, the more that sound travels on its own to these places. It's why, like, a lot of rap music sounds so full. Because, you know, sometimes if it's just like a hiatus snare, an808 and a vocal and like, maybe like a keyboard or minimal rap music, it's like bouncing off the whole thing. Whereas when you hear a live recording of a band and there's so much going on, the audience space, you feel like, almost slightly trapped.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

So this album does sound more full and it's something you play with. Neither is better or worse, but the less that's going on in something, the more it travels around you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting. And I noticed, like, when you on Stern, for example, you played harmonica, which is awesome.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's fun. I like things. There's a literalness to the work. And the non literal part, the literal part is like, how did I do it before. Let's do it different. What are instruments I haven't heard in a while. I haven't heard the harmonica in a really long time. And that. That shit happens very randomly. Like, I was just listening to some Dylan stuff, and I was just like, you know, I think it's. Cause, like, I don't like that neck piece. Yeah. So I always deemed it a little bit cheesy, but I was like, no, it's a really interesting tone, and it plays off of that harmonic resonance that the saxes have. I all of a sudden was like, I haven't heard the harpoo chord in a really long time. That became a big character in the album. So, like, those things are fun. Yeah. They're like, you know, I'm using this for low end. Let's use this. The literal. Shocking yourself, different ways of doing things, but that can only take you so far, you know, that's just like an outfit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is there an instrument you wish you could play but you can't?

[Jack Antonoff]

Kind of can't, you know, when it comes to string instruments.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like, I can mess around with them. Yeah. But I can't, like, really play them. Like, I'd love to be able to, like, take, like, a.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like a violin or something.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. Or like, I play cello on a lot of recordings, and I have to do it, you know, I'm not great. But I also like that sometimes hearing someone struggle with something. Yeah. Is cooler than being great. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I find that even vocalists like, you know, you. Some of those Kanye records where he's singing, and it's like, his voice isn't all that great.

[Jack Antonoff]

I don't want. This is the dissonance with, like, American Idol singing. Like, if you are someone who could, like, bring down the house at a talent show, that's great. But there's something more exciting about someone who, to me, that's why I love Dylan and Waits and people like this, where it's like, it makes sense more artistically than it does literally. I was talking to Howard about this when I was on. It's like I was saying that Private Parts is a bible for all artists because regardless of his medium, no one was asking him to do it. No one was like, wow, where's the movie, Howard?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

In his whole career, no one was like, you're so good. It was the story. His whole life, including the movie, is the story of someone who felt compelled to do something. And the art is within that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like, no one. You know, like, I don't think many comedians were like, the fucking class clown, right? They're more probably rarely, rarely. They're more like slightly more removed and kind of like the ones I know are a little bit removed from everything. Looking at the absurdity and the bizarreness of situations. Kind of like writing about it in their head. Like I wasn't playing guitar at a campfire, right? I wasn't guitar guy at the party.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Guitar guy at the party, which is a song I wrote many years ago.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Support for Working out comes from Mint Mobile. I don't know about you, I like

[Mike Birbiglia]

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[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

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[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

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[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

Evan from your band wrote if the band fell into a volcano tomorrow, what do you wish the legacy would be?

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, unfortunately, the legacy would be that would. Fell into a volcano.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Volcano.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think even if that's a layup. Yeah. Even if the Beatles fell into the volcano, it would have clipped.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the Big Bopper right there.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. Because it's never happened.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, no one's ever fallen into a volcano as a musical.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Great question, idiot.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think it's a brilliant question.

[Mabel Lewis]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. And I think if you know Evan, you could understand where that was coming from. I can imagine him like going like that and thinking long and hard. And with that, I think I would want the legacy to be just how us we were.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Which means different things to different people. It's my only goal is to. Is to become more and more specific.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Here's how I describe the MSG show last year. And I'm sure that this, this year will be just as good, if not better. You do a thing with your band where you leave it on the floor, it's all there. You. You might as well be dead afterwards.

[Jack Antonoff]

I feel dead after. I don't. The very thing that gives me so much life is. The thing that hurts me is like I've never known how to. I have so many issues in life. Thoughts, feelings, OCDs, just stuff that distracts me from life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

I bet you feel this way too the second I get on stage or the second I get into the studio. But talk about life. Second I get on stage, I. I become in my head what I've always seen as like a free, normal person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Same.

[Jack Antonoff]

I don't think about anything else. I'm so present and I can't think about the next day. I can't think about the day before all my traumas and the songs. But that's kind of enough. But my spirit is very present and to my own detriment sometimes I don't have the ability to pace myself. So just. Every night's the last night on earth. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. That's exactly how I feel. Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And that's why I do it so much. And I think that is to reduce something wild. I think that is the secret to life, which is that you can find that one thing that makes you feel like you are not in a wild, topsy turvy ride of the past and the future. You know, just dealing with everything and actually just makes you feel like you're standing on the ground, you have to do that thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's why, like, in some ways, that's what all great entertainment is. Or is. Is this. Are they gonna be alive at the end of this?

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Metaphorically.

[Jack Antonoff]

Is this thing gonna fly off the. Yeah. The things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Houdini1 is underwater. He's underwater and he's in chains. It's like, is he gonna get out? But, like, isn't the Houdini thing everybody? I feel like the national is like this. When I've seen the national live, you

[Jack Antonoff]

go, like, are they gonna be all right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Is Matt gonna be okay?

[Jack Antonoff]

I mean, it does. I grew up this way in this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Taylor's like that, too, by the way.

[Jack Antonoff]

That's my life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, what the hell? What the hell is this? This is crazy.

[Jack Antonoff]

Completely. This is death defying if it doesn't get there for me. And it's not. And she does it. Even like Tom Waits does it, when he's just sort of, like, hunched over the piano where you're like, is he gonna eat this piano? Yeah. To me, my favorite thing about any live performance is the mix of, like, expertise and discomfort.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, where it's like this. I like watching people who are. And it's kind of how I feel when I'm up there, too, where I'm, like. Like crawling out of my own fucking skin. I don't even know what I'm gonna do next. And I also feel completely in control in a totally different way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And it's like. It's like that. Like, the more I do it and the more I love it, I, like, have this control that lets me be more out of control.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This actually leads into Hutch's question, which is, how has meeting Margaret and becoming a more well adjusted man affected your work?

[Jack Antonoff]

What is with these sincere questions?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

I know, man. Interesting. A lot of love.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah, a lot of love. It's made me double down on everything I always hoped was true, but maybe felt insecure about. When you get. I wrote a song about this called I'm Not Joking. It's on the album. The lyric is, when you get what you want. When you want what you get. It's the heaviest.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Because it's really on. It's almost like the buzzer really starts or something.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's. I write. I don't write a lot of songs about, like, fantastic. I'm in love. I write a lot of songs that. Where. That's a fact.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

I've found my person. And now how does that color the Rest of my life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Which it can be anxiety producing, it can be terrifying, can be joyous. All these things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

But I feel. Meeting her makes me feel like I could take all the shame in the world. I don't care.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

But now there's someone I want to be great for. Do you feel. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah. Jenny's opinion is the opinion that I am most interested in. Always.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. The way. The way she. And I feel sorry about the band too. Like, the way some people see me is far more beautiful than I could allow myself to be seen by myself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Jack Antonoff]

And so it does a lot for my soul to live up to their vision. I feel that way about my audience. Honestly, too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what people say when they're. I would say, most romantic about marriage. They go, it's the process of. It's the commitment to bearing witness to someone else's life.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then bearing witness to yours.

[Jack Antonoff]

And when you choose or whether it's choice or not, when you actually believe their view of you, it's a heavy thing to live up to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And it's a beautiful thing. But, man, I was. You know. One thing I'll say about getting married, touring, all these things. Why are the loudest people talking about shit? The people that have the weirdest opinions on it. All the stories you hear about marriage. Just like we only hear from people who fucking hate their marriages.

[Mabel Lewis]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

We only, you know, like, I grew up and everyone was like, good luck going on tour. It's like, I love going on tour.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, like now I don't have kids yet. You can speak to this. But there's so many people being like, well, when you have kids, you're fucked. And I'm like, maybe you shouldn't have written the book.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, maybe all this stuff is. And I don't know. I only know about the things that I have done that have had those things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When you have kids, it's hilarious. When they're five, you're really fucked. When they're 10, you're really, you know, along the way, I'm just like, that's good.

[Jack Antonoff]

I just think. I think everything is very different for any. Everyone. And it's never been in my personality to, like, share some wisdom. I don't meet young artists and I'd be like, well, the road will kill you.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, I'm like, it's so interesting what happens.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's different for It's. It. I do. The longer I'm around, the more I Feel like. And I know this is a bit of a no shit, but a lot of history gets told by the people who fancy themselves someone who should be telling history 100%. And a lot of true history doesn't get told because people are just living

[Mike Birbiglia]

it and making it 100%.

[Jack Antonoff]

And I feel this way deeply about art.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, certainly think about art versus third person accounts of art.

[Jack Antonoff]

Oh my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which do you want to learn more from? It's like, of course, the art.

[Jack Antonoff]

I mean, the representation of art in. In like film and television is hilariously off.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like beyond. Yeah, beyond like has become. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You look at the top 10 lists and the top 20, you're like, what?

[Jack Antonoff]

But just when they show music being made or they show someone writing, like, you know, it's almost like the exact opposite.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Because there's this obsession with presenting it as a terrible life. And I think that is comes from satiating something in this public need to be like, I didn't do that because I didn't want a terrible life. But that's an American thing. In other countries where art is seen as more of a just noble job, you don't have to have this concept of like, this is some fringe thing happening.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Riddle said, what are your top weird New Jersey sites?

[Jack Antonoff]

I think New Jersey is Europe. And I don't want a laugh after that because I'm not joking. And everyone laughs.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love New Jersey.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Come on.

[Jack Antonoff]

Here's why. It's Europe. When you drive around Europe or travel, it's like from an American point of view, in the quickest distance, you're in totally new cultures. That's how I feel about Jersey. Every turn you take, there's a beach, there's a city, there's a mountain.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's just different everywhere. We have great Italian people. Mike.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why'd you say, Mike, you're Italian?

[Jack Antonoff]

I'm all good in Italian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's the first concert you ever went to?

[Jack Antonoff]

My parents took me to see Aerosmith.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nice.

[Jack Antonoff]

Collective Soul opens. That's the first band I ever saw.

[Mabel Lewis]

Oh, you gotta let me light shine down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's the first album you ever bought?

[Jack Antonoff]

Ever bought my own Money Monster by R.E.M. what's the frequency again? Great. And I remember thinking vividly, like hearing that distorted guitar.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did he have the distortion?

[Jack Antonoff]

And being like, how'd they do that? And then I went to get a pedal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And I left it plugged in and the battery. And I got home, played it and I felt like a God. And. And then the next day, if you leave it Plugged in, it kills the battery. I didn't realize that. And I didn't have, like, a cord. I just, like, had a fucking battery in there. And I was so sad the next day, and I went back to the store, and they were like, you. You know, this is back when there were. People were, like, really mean at music stores. Wrong with you, kid? Can't leave it plugged in.

[Mabel Lewis]

You'll never be nothing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You'll never be nothing.

[Jack Antonoff]

You'll never be nothing. You're never. You're never gonna be nothing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. There's, you know, the Bob Dylan interview where he goes, I didn't write these songs. God. God wrote these songs.

[Jack Antonoff]

Kind of recent, right?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

No, no, that's years ago.

[Mike Birbiglia]

60 Minutes.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

It's years ago.

[Jack Antonoff]

I thought it was. I thought he or he gave one recently where he was like, I don't know how I did that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I just love it.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, you're a big Dylan person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I love Dylan. I love Dylan. And have you ever had an experience like that where you just go, like,

[Jack Antonoff]

I didn't even write that song most of the time.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Really?

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah. Well, there's such a difference between craft and magic. And I actually feel you hit a button here. Because one thing that drives me so crazy, so constantly I feel that way. I feel like I've developed a lot of craft. I know how to work things. I know how to make sounds I imagine in my head. But it only gets you so far. The magic is just when you're hit with something that matters and feels like you no idea how it comes, why it comes, it fills me with the most joy and fear. Because every time it comes, I feel alive in a way I can't describe. And then the next feeling is. Was that the last one?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Which is not anxiety. That's real. There are people. It comes in waves. There are last ones. But what drives me crazy about this moment, about being alive, is at best, the Internet's an information tool. I don't think it's a connection tool, because that's gone belly up, right? So I feel like the whole function of people's phones, like, oh, you know, what year with John Adams, president, how do I make soup? You know, like, when is the weather going to get nice? You know, looking at the phone, answering questions constantly. So I feel like when you work in any sort of medium that relies on a lot of magic, there's this movement nowadays where it's sort of like everything is. And I notice it when I do press, like, well, how'd you write the song.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And I'm like, I don't know. Like, sure, but, like, take us through it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it's like.

[Jack Antonoff]

And you're like, motherfucker, I don't know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You don't know.

[Jack Antonoff]

I like. You want to talk about which plugins I use or how I like to, like, mike the guitar or the tape, I'll talk about that forever. Which is why I like doing some of, like, that nerdy, you know, gear stuff.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

But, like, I call it masterclass thinking. It's like, do you really think that you can buy a subscription to something and have Martin Scorsese tell you what Martin Scorsese is?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

No, he can tell you a little about craft.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

But there's a lived experience and a way of communicating with the world. Comedians have this more than anyone, that if I could define, I would have done it a long time ago. And it's getting. The need to understand how the thing is done is getting worse and worse and worse out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And I feel this intense need to push back and be like, we don't know. It comes from a deep place. Like, you know, like, there's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's a great example of this, by the way, Scorsese you bring up. You watch the documentary about Scorsese that's on Apple. It's fantastic. It's like five parts, and you go, and you see. And I had no idea this was true.

[Jack Antonoff]

He.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

His family was like, pushed out of

[Mike Birbiglia]

their house by the mob when he was a kid. They were basically, like, asked to leave by, like, the local family. Yeah, exactly.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

And then he had a breathing condition, and the only place there was air conditioning in New York was in movie theaters. So we'd watch movies all day, and you go, well, how do you learn to make movies?

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, those two things. Yeah. Which is such a specific. Yeah. It's like, you can't convince the mob to fuck with you. You can't harm yourself, because then you've done those things, like, one's life. I have my own version of that story. And it's like, it's all part of this thing. It's just a need. I also think it comes from an anxiety for everything that's gone wrong in the world. Everyone wants to understand why, how probably, at best, in a way, to correct it in the future. But that's just not what art is. You know, everyone I work with, everyone I know myself, I mean, you can't really explain. Yeah. It's like you're. These things you write on the wall. It's like, that's not the job.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

That's like. That's like putting your socks on. It's just, like, a thing that's, like, helpful.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

The job is, like, in your head and your heart.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Well, it's like, purging out of you.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because you're trying to make sense of things that are, I think, incongruous. Like, I. Like, I heard a Seinfeld quote recently that I thought was great, which is like. Is like writing jokes is the process of shutting everything off. Books, tv, movies, your phone. And be letting yourself become so bored with an idea.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That the idea becomes interesting.

[Jack Antonoff]

That's how I feel about songs. Living in a. In, like, a delusional board space where no music really exists. And then you, in your head, write a song that needs to exist, and even that feels reductive.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

But. But that's been an interesting journey for me and a lot of people I know of, like, living through this time of answering for how you did something and explaining something that you don't, even when it happens to you. It's like asking someone, like, where God is or why they believe. It's like. I could give you some poetry, but it's kind of in the music.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah, it's in there.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have a line in the van. Love the van.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Love it.

[Jack Antonoff]

Thanks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Might be my favorite song on the album. I just don't want to be lonely. I just don't want to be. That's the thing about loving your shadow. You talk about a lot in your songs through the years, about loneliness and your shadow and what makes you feel lonely and what's the antidote for loneliness for you?

[Jack Antonoff]

It's been finding other people who. Who don't want to be lonely. So, like, commiserating on this, like, weird, sick feeling you wake up with.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Mabel Lewis]

Do you have that.

[Jack Antonoff]

Do you wake up feeling like. Like, a little. Like, depression? A little anxiety? A little. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like I'm not doing. I. I feel like I'm not peaking early in my day. However, I feel like when I'm disciplined enough to wake up and write, I actually get into a really good space.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Me.

[Jack Antonoff]

Do I always write in the morning?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

The second I do anything, eat anything, look at anything, everything diminishes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

My brain becomes, like, less my own.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Agree.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's the freshest, most untethered version of yourself.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think it's because you're connected to. This should mean a lot to you as someone who has a very interesting relationship to Dreams. But dreaming is so protected, right? You just go into your subconscious and you wake up and if you don't look at your phone, if you don't do much, if you don't read the news, then you're more tethered to those dreams. Literally, you remember them more and they become part of your day. And then that dream state, which is like your true subconscious telling you what the fuck's going on with you, is more present in your awake reality. And then you, you hum on it more. You think about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

If you, I mean there's science about this. If you wake up and look at your phone, that that dream world dies. Yeah, you're gone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And it's is a tragedy because you're supposed to, you know, you talk to any analysts, you talk to scientists about this, you're supposed to let that sort of slowly drift with you throughout the day. A lot of the writing comes from there. We don't write things we know. That's boring. Yeah, you know, I'm not like sitting around writing a song about something I'm sure of. I'm writing a song that feels distant and uncomfortable.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Support for working it out comes from nocd. NOCD is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment. It's covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans. All their licensed therapists specialize in ERP therapy and will help you learn to take the power away from intrusive thoughts in live face to face virtual sessions. They also provide support between sessions when you need it most. So you're never facing OCD alone. For some people, a what if isn't just a passing thought. It's a loop that you can't even get out of. What if I did something terrible? What if my relationship is a mistake? What if I can't trust my own mind? And no matter what you do to try to feel better, reassuring yourself, replaying, researching, the thought just keeps coming back. That can actually be ocd, not the organizing stereotype. Real OCD is persistent, unwanted, intrusive thoughts that feel totally out of character along with mental or physical behaviors that you feel driven to do to get relief. If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NOCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started. Learn.nocd.com Mike Support for workinged out comes from Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US get ready with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates. Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style.

[Mike Birbiglia]

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[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comwio go to shopify.comwio that's shopify.comwio support for working it out comes from Pesti. Pesti is do it yourself pest control.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh man.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

I just have to say like that's a lot less than I've paid for my treatments.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

But not anymore. Now I got Pesti. You know what's great about the Pesti website? They have images of all these bugs so you can tell what it is you're dealing with. Pesty's Kid and Pet Friendly. Thank God the pesticides they ship are fully registered and have been used in hospitals and schools all over the country. Pesty offers 100% bug free guarantee or your money back. If the bugs don't go away, you'll get a full refund or the bugs will. I added that. Get bugs out of your house with Pesti. Go to pesti.com wio for an extra 10% off your order. That's P-E-S-T-I-E.com wio for an extra ten percent off.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So I wrote this song. I have shared this with no one. This is kind of insane that I'm even showing you this because you're the best musician I know. So the idea of showing amateur work to someone is insane.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, I. I give you lots of pitches for bits.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it's true, you know. So. So basically so at the beginning of it it's like a talk over. And it's right there by the way, the lyrics, if you want to see it. It's called Remember Pizza? And so it's like a talk over.

[Mabel Lewis]

It's like there's so Many ads for pizza.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like they don't need to make anymore.

[Mabel Lewis]

I feel like we're sold as a civilization on pizza.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then it goes.

[Mabel Lewis]

I feel like maybe just an occasional reminder would be helpful. Just a scroll on the bottom of the screen that says, remember pizza. Remember pizza.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I be like, I forgot about pizza.

[Mabel Lewis]

Then I'd order a pizza.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So that's like the first verse.

[Jack Antonoff]

I would change the chord on the chorus.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Should we zero in on Remember Pizza?

[Peter Salamone]

I think, Remember Pizza?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

That's funny.

[Mabel Lewis]

Remember pizza. Remember Pizza? Remember pizza? I'd be like. Like, oh, my God, I forgot about pizza.

[Peter Salamone]

And then I ordered a pizza, remember?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, and then the next verse.

[Jack Antonoff]

So I think. I think that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, so what are the chords that you're playing in in the chorus for Remember Pizza? Right now? F. Okay. F is so hard for me, sir.

[Jack Antonoff]

Remember GP C, E7.

[Peter Salamone]

Remember pizza.

[Jack Antonoff]

E7. Seven.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where's.

[Jack Antonoff]

Take out that middle finger. Take out the ring finger. No, other one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, Got it. So hard for me.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah.

[Mabel Lewis]

Remember pizza.

[Jack Antonoff]

Now E7.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow. Okay.

[Jack Antonoff]

To A minor.

[Peter Salamone]

Remember pizza?

[Jack Antonoff]

Put a G in it. So just passing then. And then I'd be like F to F minor. Then F minor. Now you just take off the. It's gonna be hard.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

That's hard.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. My F is terrible, but I like

[Jack Antonoff]

the sound of it. Okay, well, did you like it?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's gorgeous.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, you don't have to like it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, it's pretty. But it's. It's funny. It's higher than my register.

[Jack Antonoff]

No, I didn't.

[Mabel Lewis]

Remember, Remember Pizza.

[Jack Antonoff]

You sound great. Sound like Jonathan.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All right, so why don't we start with enrichment?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Why don't we take. Why don't we take.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, why don't we take out my guitar and just do your guitar and see if we can sing it together for the talk over? Okay, so if you keep playing, would

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

you play that for the second verse?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Would you play the same? Yeah. Okay, so.

[Mabel Lewis]

But do you know why there are so many ads for pizza? Does anyone know who? Actually, I know we're having fun and laughing, but this is a very serious portion of the show where I tell you something you've never thought about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Then maybe, like, dad on guitar.

[Jack Antonoff]

I'll tell you something that you never thought about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There are no ads for good pizza. There are only ads for bad pizza. And then you come in again. It's fun.

[Mabel Lewis]

I could end the show right there. It's true, though. There are no ads for good pizza. Good pizza is confident in their work. They're like, people will find us, but bad pizzas, like, we'll do anything. We'll stay open till 3am we'll hire a mascot. You can stick pizza inside our pizza. I'm like, bad pizza. Get a hold of yourself.

[Peter Salamone]

Get a hold of yourself.

[Mabel Lewis]

People are starting to stare, but there's no good anything really. Like, there's no ads for Paris, but there are ads for New Hampshire. But if there were ads for good

[Mike Birbiglia]

pizza, and I think, kill it there,

[Mabel Lewis]

they'd say, remember pizza. Remember pizza. Remember pizza. Remember pizza.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then I go, I don't know

[Mabel Lewis]

if you're into graffiti, but even if you're not, this is a simple idea. Stop by your local bodega, grab a marker or a pencil, and find the side of a building and write key change. Remember pizza. Remember pizza. Remember pizza. Remember pizza.

[Jack Antonoff]

Okay. I like a few things that happen.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

There's some seeds.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's amazing. I liked the. I like. I think.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let me write this down.

[Jack Antonoff]

I mean, did you like some of those changes I was doing?

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah, I like the changes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, I'm.

[Jack Antonoff]

I really liked the mic. Did you like the key change?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I like the key change a lot.

[Jack Antonoff]

I really liked this long middle section when it went to halftime.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think most importantly, what I want to say about the song is I think you're making a good point, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

About remembering pizza and about how there are no ads for good pizza.

[Jack Antonoff]

The only thing I would add is

[Mike Birbiglia]

only ads for bad pizza.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

There's only bad. There's only ads.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So basically, I'll tell you the incarnation of the song. Maybe this will help us arrive at it. The incarnation was I have all these jokes about pizza. Yeah, right. And they're all on the board, like, right there on the board. And it was one of these things where I'm like, you know, there is actually a guiding principle here, and it's remember pizza. And I think, like, there actually. And maybe if I write, like, a different verse of the song, it might open out to an idea of, like,

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

remember everything that's good.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, I think. I disagree that the guiding. I agree with that. But the idea that the song is Remember Pizza, I think that's like the Trojan horse.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay?

[Jack Antonoff]

So I think, you know, the layperson is just going to hear, remember pizza. Yeah, anything at Pizza, Pizza, pizza. Much like born in the usa.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

Usa. And it's like, no, you know what that song is really about? You know, you're. That song being about Vietnam to me. Remember Pizza. What it's really about is that the Idea that anything advertised is right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the idea.

[Jack Antonoff]

And that we've come to a world where things mean the opposite. So, for example, if I say, hey, should we go to this hotel and stay at the deluxe suite?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Jack Antonoff]

You'll be like, well, it's probably not a nice hotel if they're calling it the deluxe suite.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Jack Antonoff]

Gourmet means the opposite.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

A truly gourmet place would never call itself gourmet.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

That's right.

[Jack Antonoff]

New Hampshire.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know what I mean? No ads for Paris. So I think the deeper meaning on here is reminding people that when in advertising, it's the exact opposite. If something's great, it's not great.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Right?

[Jack Antonoff]

If something's great, it doesn't need to be told.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know what I mean? Like, you're not watching ads for. For great things. You're watching for shit things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Jack Antonoff]

So that, to me, which I love, that little part when you start to get into it, you know, saving 300 people, there's no ads for anything good, really. That is the heart and soul of the song. There's no ad for anything good, really. I wouldn't call this on that. I think this song is Remember Pizza? But I think that's the Trojan horse is thinking about pizza. And what it's really about is, why would you market pizza if it was good?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Jack Antonoff]

Why would you market anything if it's good? If you see an ad for it, whether it's a pharmaceutical, a vacation destination, or anything, it sucks. That's why they're advertising.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Jack Antonoff]

Feel me?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I like.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

No, no. 100%.

[Jack Antonoff]

So if I were you, if you wrote anymore and you don't want to stick the landing too hard, you know, just a line here or there, which I think you kind of get. The gourmet stuff's interesting Deluxe.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I like that a lot. You know, I'm just looking.

[Jack Antonoff]

So, like, my friend Gary is a comic, and he saw me do that joke, but in the joke, it used

[Mike Birbiglia]

to be ads for Ohio, and he said, you should change it to New Hampshire.

[Jack Antonoff]

There's less people in New Hampshire here.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's got a thick Boston accent.

[Jack Antonoff]

Is it Gary Goldman?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

The goal. What is it? Great Depression.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

He goes, dude, now he'll listen. Gary Goldman and Bernthal listening to the same podcast.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Dude, dude, dude, dude.

[Jack Antonoff]

You got to change that to New Hampshire, bro. Here's why. Gary is a genius beyond his work.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

When I was working on this song and I got to that part about New Hampshire, and I was like, oh, I don't want to offend anyone. New Hampshire. And then I was like, small state. Small state.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. No, it used to be. It used to be Ohio. And Gallman was like, no, there's too many people in Ohio.

[Jack Antonoff]

But also Ohio is great place.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, it's a great place. No, New Hampshire is a great place, by the way.

[Jack Antonoff]

Is it? Yeah, it's a great place. You know, my family's from Vermont, so I think it's kind of one or the other up there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you like better, the talk over or the chords playing underneath the verse?

[Jack Antonoff]

I think I liked what I. Personally, what I just did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What you played was nice.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah, I think it's really good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I really do you think it'll get there?

[Jack Antonoff]

I think it's there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's the seed of an idea.

[Jack Antonoff]

No, it's not even seed. It's kind of there. I think it's like all things. Look, I think, you know, comedians have the ability to write really powerful songs. Like, you've written great songs. I think Adam Sandler is a brilliant songwriter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

I think, you know, that whole Trojan Horse thing is, like, you're making people laugh, and then before you know it, like the song he wrote about Farley.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's amazing.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like, obviously there's. There's laughs here and there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

But that's just like a beautiful song.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I love that song.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's a beautiful song. Tells me the song you wrote about comedians in the last special.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The song about comedians is amazing.

[Jack Antonoff]

Is just outstanding.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Obviously.

[Jack Antonoff]

World with youh is a classic.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's that?

[Peter Salamone]

I want to make you happy Never you sad hello. Going over you take your medicine when your tummy aches Carry too much drink All I want to do is grow it's beautiful. And I'll miss you kiss you Even let you hold the remote control need

[Jack Antonoff]

you you feed you I up then

[Peter Salamone]

goes Even let you hold the remote control Bring your medicine when you're you too m all I want to do scroll with you yeah. I could be the man grows over you I want to grow with you.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

You know that from just watching the special.

[Jack Antonoff]

Then he goes, julia, I want to grow old with you. Or something like that. And then Billy Idol's like, yeah. You know the scene on the airplane?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

Greatest. But that's a beautiful. That could be anyone's song. And I think the Remember Pizza course is like, it's just about hanging on to what you're really talking about. Like, the great comedy songs to me are the ones that are about something different. And like I said, it's just a Trojan horse. This song is about not so. Okay, so if we had to break it down to the deepest poetic sense, Remember Pizza is about not forgetting your joys of amazing things that you love because you're being inundated with people trying to sell you crap. So what's at risk is forgetting pizza because you're being sold so much bad pizza that you just get miffed on pizza.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Jack Antonoff]

I would say this could be a song about communication, friendship, love. Has the Internet ruined our ability to communicate? Have we forgotten how much we love to just talk without a hot, hot take? That's the core of Remember Pizza.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Thanks, man.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's so helpful. This is like a perfect. I was very self conscious about sharing this with you.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah, you shouldn't be. I don't feel self conscious sharing my jokes with you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, but there's something about it where I'm like, I'm trying to consider.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Very serious.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We've talked about this on the podcast before. Seriously consider integrating music into my next show in a real way.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah, it's great. But I don't think it's that deep or scary because no one's expecting you to be perfect at guitar or a perfect song structure or anything like that. So it's like that barrier already down actually allows you to. Could be more heartful. Heartfelt here and there.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Do you like.

[Jack Antonoff]

Like when you pick up the guitar, like, the audience is with you in the sense that we're like, well, now he's winging it a little because we didn't buy a ticket to see him play guitar.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jack Antonoff]

So there's. There's something cool to play with in there. Right. That's why I feel free in between songs talking. It's like if I bomb, like, it's like, ah, here's a song.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, and it's actually like a real looseness to it that is really like stepping outside yourself a little bit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally.

[Jack Antonoff]

Whereas, like, if you're talking it's not going well. We're pissed.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, totally.

[Jack Antonoff]

You know, we're telling a story. We came from Great Neck.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

We came from Shrewsbury.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Tell the story about Katsachett.

[Jack Antonoff]

Tell you where we didn't come from. Yeah, I'm sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I know. I saw that one coming. And as did all the listeners. I can't even believe you let me do this with you. That's how I feel. I got nothing going on. No, but it's weird.

[Jack Antonoff]

Is it.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Yeah, because you're like the. You're.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You do this.

[Jack Antonoff]

Yeah, but.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I'm just like this guy.

[Jack Antonoff]

Well, you're a guy I met a long time ago. And when we met, my sister was like, this guy's cool. And then I watched you ask Jenny Lewis for a picture.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's ridiculous.

[Jack Antonoff]

And I was like, this guy's not cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jack Antonoff]

And then I hung out with you the rest of the day and I was like, this guy's cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Now we got Jenny Lewis as a listener. That's our show today. This is Working It Out. Working it out for a cause I can predict is going to be to the Ally Coalition. Because Jack and I have been raising money for the Ally Coalition for many, many years, along with Rachel Antonoff and many others. Jack Antonoff is a musician who has a new album in stores. Now, stores don't exist, but online stores

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

and Spotify and YouTube.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And he also has some videos, some of them directed by his brilliant wife, Margaret Qualley. And that's going to do it for Working It Out. We'll see you next time.

[Mabel Lewis]

Oh, my God, I forgot about pizza.

[Peter Salamone]

Working it out because it's not done.

[Jack Antonoff]

Working It Out.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

That's gonna do it. For another episode of Working it out. You can follow Jack Antonoff on Instagram Ackantinoff. You can follow Bleachers, the band leechersmusic. Our producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salamone, Joseph Birbigli, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mix by Shubh Sarin. A lot of sound mixing today. Hope you enjoyed it. Supervising engineer, Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music. Bleachers new album everyone for 10 minutes comes out this Friday. It is so good. May 22nd. Set a reminder on all of your music services.

[Jack Antonoff]

It's.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

It's an incredible album.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it's an instant classic.

[Podcast Host (likely Mike Birbiglia or a producer)]

Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. And thanks most of all, of, of course to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. It helps us out well over 200 episodes at this point. Thank you, everyone. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell your friends who forget pizza. Just say, remember pizza. You gotta remember pizza. And it's a metaphor really for just remembering all the positive things which hopefully in your mind is our podcast. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time.