220. Jo Firestone Returns: You Better Marry My 40-Year-Old Daughter

Summary

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Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out

Episode 220 — Jo Firestone Returns: You Better Marry My 40-Year-Old Daughter
Date: August 3, 2026
Guest: Jo Firestone

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Episode Overview

In this lively, meandering episode, comedian Mike Birbiglia welcomes back fan favorite Jo Firestone for her fourth appearance. Jo arrives with her signature offbeat humor and vulnerable honesty, sharing reflections on her recent pregnancy, whirlwind City Hall wedding, new book ("Sex on Murder Island"), and the awkward realities of comedy and life. Together, Mike and Jo riff on everything from “bus pretty” people and maternity underwear to Lord of the Rings, crossword puzzles, and teaching comedy to senior citizens. The episode's main thread is exploring the intersection of comedy, everyday absurdity, and life’s major transitions—with plenty of working out new material and swapping candid stories.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedy During Crisis & The Limits of Laughter (00:01–02:40, 40:30–42:00)

• Jo opens with a story about performing stand-up for displaced seniors during Hurricane Sandy, assuming comedy could "bring lightness" to despair. It backfired, making the audience "so angry."
  • Quote:
    "Isn't comedy supposed to get people through the hardest times?"
    — Jo Firestone (00:01, 40:41)
  • Takeaway: Even the best intentions in comedy can miss the mark; true despair isn't always easy to lighten.

2. Jo’s New Book(s), Pregnancy, and Name Confusion (04:01–06:59)

• Jo discusses her sequels: "Murder on Sex Island" followed by "Sex on Murder Island," highlighting the confusion it causes and her evolving feelings as a soon-to-be parent.
  • Quote:
    “Not even. No one knows the difference. They don’t have even a number on there... The covers are basically the same.”
    — Jo Firestone (05:11)
• Feeling responsible as a parent, Jo worries her comedic choices will one day embarrass her child.

3. Marriage, City Hall, and Ultimatums (30:00–34:05)

• Jo describes her recent City Hall wedding, her father serving as witness while literally holding up his pants, and her pattern of giving her now-husband ultimatums ("seven out of eight years").
  • Quote:
    "You better marry my 40-year-old daughter."
    — Jo Firestone (34:05)
• Discussion of the term "shotgun wedding," with Jo playfully affirming the stereotype.

4. The Realities of Pregnancy: Pink Eye & Maternity Wear (07:00–12:11, 49:00–50:29)

• Jo details her pregnancy struggles (pink eye, fatigue) and the challenges of maternity clothing:
  • Quote:
    "At this point, basically, the bras are the shape and size of mixing bowls.”
    — Jo Firestone (49:04)
• Humorous stories about buying and returning maternity underwear and bras, plus the universal appeal of sweatpants as gifts.

5. Lord of the Rings, Crosswords, and Unexpected Self-Realization (13:03–25:00)

• Jo, despite never having seen LotR until now, realizes she resembles Frodo, leading to reflection on self-perception and missed pop culture references.
  • Quote:
    "I've had the same haircut as Frodo for 20 years."
    — Jo Firestone (14:06)
• The duo bond over their obsession with crossword puzzles and how LotR and Harry Potter are “the same movie.”
• Discussion of crossword clues:
  • Quote:
    “They're always talking about Lord of the Rings. More than Mel Ott... orcs and ents.”
    — Jo Firestone (24:54)
• Aside: Samwise Gamgee (actor Sean Astin) is now SAG-AFTRA president, to their amusement.

6. Comedy Process: Working Out Jokes & The ‘Hotness’ Industry (18:22–24:32, 48:32–55:04)

• Mike shares a long-standing Lord of the Rings/Gollum lotions joke, reflecting on the process of developing bits and the hundreds discarded.
  • Quote:
    “We’re all Gollum with these lotions.”
    — Mike Birbiglia (20:00)
  • Jo: “Now I get it—all those years, people shouting Lord of the Rings at me, now I finally get it.” (24:32)
• They dissect attraction, "bus pretty" people, and how rarely one sees "bona fide hot" people daily (Mike: "three," Jo: "zero").
  • Quote:
    “Think about how many people you see a day—500,000, three are hot. That’s a failing industry!”
    — Mike Birbiglia (23:30)

7. Teaching Comedy to Seniors & The Limits of Learning (38:42–40:09)

• Jo updates on her six-year senior comedy class, which has evolved into a community group. Students confessed, “we haven’t learned anything in years,” but "keep showing up."
  • Quote:
    “At a certain point you’re just saying, ‘Today’s more of a let’s... just chat.’”
    — Jo Firestone (39:59)

8. Public Transport Etiquette: Pregnancy & “Man-spreading” (55:04–58:26)

• Jo laments people no longer offering seats to pregnant women and playfully suggests you have to "stare down" the seated for a spot.
• Discussion on how everyone—regardless of gender—takes up space ("spreading"), and it sometimes feels "awesome."
  • Quote:
    “It feels good to splain and it feels good to spread.”
    — Jo Firestone (58:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Comedy & Tragedy:
  "I can bring lightness to this space. I made these people so angry. They were shouting at me to be quiet."
  — Jo Firestone (41:10–41:23)
• On Pregnancy Self-Image:
  "That's how I feel every day...like Rasputin in Anastasia: eyes popping out, crawling, skin falling, ribs doing dances."
  — Jo Firestone (08:19)
• On Gifts:
  "Sweatpants, okay, is the ultimate."
  — Jo Firestone (10:09)
• On Dedications:
  “He wanted me to dedicate the book to him. And the dog.”
  — Jo Firestone (07:00)
• Crossword Culture:
  "The three letter celebrities are just killing it in the crossword."
  — Jo Firestone (25:18)
• On City Hall Weddings:
  “He had to make an oath while holding up one—he held up his pants with one hand and had his hand up with the other. And I was like, this is our witness.”
  — Jo Firestone (30:31)
• Comedy Truth:
  “At the heart of comedy—just making people laugh who maybe are having a hard day?”
  — Mike Birbiglia (40:17)
• On Being Hard to Take Seriously:
  "I have a hard time taking you seriously because of the way you speak."
  — Mike Birbiglia (34:51)

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Joke Workshop: Bits in Progress

Jo’s Bra Bit (49:00–50:29)

• "At this point, basically, the bras are the shape and size of mixing bowls...Now I'm thinking about using it...as bowls."

Mike’s “Bus Pretty vs. Pretty for the World” Story (52:09–54:47)

• Explores the difference between wanting credit for not being creepy and the struggle for decency in public.

Lotions/Gollum Bit (20:00–24:32)

• “If Gollum used lotion, people would say ‘Gollum, it looks good’ and he’d reply ‘The lotions aren’t working!’”

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Causes & Plugs

• Baby2Baby:
  Provides essential baby needs to families in need.

  • baby2baby.org (58:54)

• Jo Firestone's Substack:
  Joe Firestone’s Passionate Newsletter
  joefirestone.substack.com (60:29)

• Jo’s Book:
  Sex on Murder Island – available at local bookstores (60:36)

• Mike Birbiglia:
  Upcoming shows & mailing list

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Comedy during Hurricane Sandy: 00:01–00:47, 40:30–42:00
• Jo’s book title confusions & pregnancy: 04:01–06:59
• City Hall wedding & father as witness: 30:00–34:05
• Pregnancy realities (clothing): 07:00–12:11, 49:00–50:29
• Lord of the Rings and self-image: 13:03–17:18
• Crossword talk: 24:32–26:01
• Comedy teaching for seniors: 38:42–40:09
• Public transport & social dynamics: 55:04–58:26

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode radiates friendly absurdity, gentle self-mockery, and the deep warmth of two comics riffing honestly about real and ridiculous life. Both Mike and Jo intermingle sharp observations with surreal asides, maintaining a light, conversational, almost familial energy throughout—even as they touch on difficult topics like aimless grief, pregnancy, and the futility (and value) of comedy.

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For More

• Listen to extended episodes with Working It Out Premium.
• Keep up with Jo via her Substack newsletter.
• Support Baby2Baby.

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Transcript

[Jo Firestone]

Isn't comedy supposed to get people through the hardest times?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Isn't that the idea?

[Jo Firestone]

During Hurricane Sandy, I go to a place where a lot of people have been relocated, their homes have been destroyed in this armory, right? It's a lot of elderly people. The lunches are always late. There's setup cots. And I say, I can do comedy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

I can bring lightness to this space. I made these people so angry.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Hey, everybody, it's Mike Birbiglia. This is Working It Out. That is the voice of the great Jo Firestone. This is her fourth appearance on the podcast. That's right, her fourth appearance.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She is a wildly, wildly popular guest,

[Podcast Host/Producer]

one of our favorites of all time. She has a new book out called Sex on Murder island, which is of

[Mike Birbiglia]

course the sequel to her other book,

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Murder on Sex Island. I love this episode so much. And if you like this appearance of Joe Firestone on this podcast, you can subscribe to Working It Out Premium and you will get access to an extended

[Mike Birbiglia]

version of this very episode. Of course, we edit these episodes for

[Podcast Host/Producer]

time and clarity, but every time Joe

[Mike Birbiglia]

Firestone's on, we have this thought. We should release the uncut version because

[Podcast Host/Producer]

my conversations with her are so wild and wide ranging and wonderful. So we're finally doing it. If you subscribe, if you go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe to Working It Out Premium, you'll get an extended version of this episode. And also you get a bunch of bonus episodes and you can listen to every episode with no ads. So you get all that 4.99amonth all on Working It Out Premium on app podcasts.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, thanks to everyone who

[Podcast Host/Producer]

came out to my shows at Just for Laughs in Montreal and in Nantucket. Check out my upcoming tour [e-mail] and sign up for the mailing list and text Bir Biggs B I R B I G S to 917-444-7150 to know about my upcoming shows, secret shows, things like that. As always, you can watch this episode on YouTube and Spotify if you want our expressions and physicality. I love talking to Joe Firestone. She's pregnant, by the way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're very excited about that.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

We talk about it today. She got married earlier this year, she got married at City Hall. Like me and Jenny. We talk about Pink Eye. We talk about Lord of the Rings. We talk about her hilarious book, Sex on Murder island, which is available now. Enjoy my conversation with the great Joe Firestone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think we should roll. Yeah, I feel like the gold has entered the building.

[Jo Firestone]

You okay?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, the gold is here.

[Jo Firestone]

Trying to get a new phrase going. Good, good, good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The gold has been delivered.

[Jo Firestone]

The water is trickling down the way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, I'm here with Joe Firestone. This is working it out. I'm Mike Birbigliam. Joe Firestone. I think your third time here.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're a fan favorite.

[Jo Firestone]

Well, it's nice to be here. I do feel like. I feel like I wait till it's the hottest day of the year, and then I say, okay, I'll come now. And that's kind of. I try to make one sweaty appearance every year.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm throwing on my regional Phantom of the Opera Toronto production T shirt, and I'm going to Mike's house.

[Jo Firestone]

This is the second. This is my second outfit today. I sweat through the first one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think the elephant in the room is you're pregnant. And it's worth noting that your first book was called Murder on Sex island, and your book that just came out is called Sex on Murder island and you're pregnant. So when is the murder happening?

[Jo Firestone]

Wow, that's really poetic.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Gotcha.

[Jo Firestone]

I forgot this was a gotcha. I forgot it was a Gotcha podcast. Shoot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Who is murdered?

[Jo Firestone]

Shoot. I gotta go commit a crime. I was like, I feel like I used to kind of make these decisions where I thought, oh, that's funny. That's fun. Do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And now every time I think about that, I'm like, oh, and that will bring humiliation to your offspring.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right.

[Jo Firestone]

You know what I mean.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I know what you mean.

[Jo Firestone]

And now I'm like, these books, first of all, named the worst combination of names I could. Not even. No one knows the difference. They don't have even a number on there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jo Firestone]

Very confusing. The covers are basically the same.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jo Firestone]

So then. So then now. So I'm trying to. And then I. You know, I was thinking, because there's another book. There's like four books total.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, there's four. Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

I gotta come back here. Yeah, I'm ready, so I gotta come back here. But then I was like, do I scramble the words even more on murder sex. I don't even know what to do now to self sabotage. But then. But it does. They were like. The sales were obviously like, what could you name the third book? Something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Something that's different words or something that's.

[Jo Firestone]

That is marketable.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Part three.

[Jo Firestone]

Something. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You dedicated the book to Mike. Thank you. You're welcome.

[Jo Firestone]

You're welcome.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I didn't even feel like I was a huge part of it. I thought I was at. At very most kind of going. Keep going.

[Jo Firestone]

That's. Yes, I. It really would. I think that. I wonder if that's the kind of thing where it is that would be really off putting.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Mm.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Which part?

[Jo Firestone]

Me dedicating my book to you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right, right. Cause your husband's name is also Mike, so he must have been put off when he saw you dedicated the book to me.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, he was. I was like. I was like, mike, you want to see the book? Like, do you want to see your. And he. And. And he's like, cool. And then I was like, no, no, open it. Open into the dedication page.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And then he looked at it, and I thought he was gonna be like. So I thought there was just gonna be this, like, emotional moment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jo Firestone]

And he was like, where's the dog? He wanted me to dedicate the book to him. And the dog.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And the dog. Interesting.

[Jo Firestone]

Come on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's it like being married to Joe Firestone? What's the day to day?

[Jo Firestone]

Well, I will say this is that my immune system's down. And so I kept. I had to cancel on this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right. Like a week ago, right? Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. Cause I got pink eye.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Wow.

[Jo Firestone]

And I got. And something was going on in here.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, what do you mean by that?

[Jo Firestone]

Like, are you familiar with the movie Anastasia? The animated.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The Disney movie?

[Jo Firestone]

Yes, yes. Fox.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, Fox.

[Jo Firestone]

Have you seen it recently?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Jo Firestone]

No. Well, there's a character called Rasputin.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

And Rasputin is sentenced to, like, a life of the afterlife. Like, he's sentenced to, like, live on forever, but in a cave. And then. So then when he gets his powers back, when he's, like, summoned, he's like. His eyes are popping out and he's, like, crawling, and his skin is, like, falling, falling to the sides, and his ribs are doing dances. And that's how I feel every day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Aw. That's what being pregnant feels like.

[Jo Firestone]

A long, thin beard.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. So you sort of balding head. Right, right, right. Thin, long beard, balding head, thin beard. Kind of your organs, like, shaking inside.

[Jo Firestone]

Pluck it once a day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Pluck it once a day. Because you pluck your beard once a day.

[Jo Firestone]

That's what you do, right? You pluck it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't relate to this, actually, Because you have a person in there.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jo Firestone]

I just came from the doctor.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What'd the doctor say?

[Jo Firestone]

Big girl.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, big girl.

[Jo Firestone]

She's a big girl.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, so you might have, like, a 10 pounder in there.

[Jo Firestone]

They said she's a big girl.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Jo Firestone]

Which is great.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And you're. Which is. I mean, I guess, who knows? You're pretty small, aren't you?

[Jo Firestone]

I mean, I think that maybe my family, they start off big and then they get small. Smaller as years.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, Yeah, I think that's. That's. There's probably some science to that.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. A lot of. Lot of children get bigger as they go, as they get older.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is Mike big?

[Jo Firestone]

He's told me he's average size.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What size is he?

[Jo Firestone]

He said he's 5 10.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He said he's 5 10, but I

[Jo Firestone]

think that's average size for sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that seems about right.

[Jo Firestone]

Like, when I go to buy him sweatpants, he's like, I think he could fit into any pair.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What world would you buy Mike sweatpants?

[Jo Firestone]

Almost. Almost every day. Every day. You think that's. You think that you're looking for a present?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

For somebody.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Sweatpants, okay. Is the ultimate.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why?

[Jo Firestone]

I've gotten it for multiple people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. Why?

[Jo Firestone]

Cause you don't have to be like, oh, are they gonna.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Are they gonna use it? Of course they're gonna use it. Of course they're gonna use it.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. You just gotta get the size right.

[Jo Firestone]

Doesn't matter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, you think? Doesn't even matter.

[Jo Firestone]

I think size is fictional on sweatpants.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, I see what you mean. I could fit into almost any sweatpants.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And me too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a great gift idea. You get high end sweatpants or just kind of Hanes.

[Jo Firestone]

This is the thing. They're exactly the same. There's no difference in sweatpants.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, interesting. Okay, you know that when Jenny was pregnant, she asked me to buy her underwear. The sweatpants story reminded me of this. And she even told me where to go. She's like, go to this one place. And I went, and all they had for underwear was a thong. All they had. It was all they had. And so I bought the thong, go home, got you the underwear. She's like, you bought me a thong? I went to the place. It's all they had. I don't know. She's like, why would you buy me a thong? I'm pregnant. I was like, I don't know. I'm just making this stuff up as I go.

[Jo Firestone]

That's so funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What if your husband bought you a thong? Like, how would you react to that?

[Jo Firestone]

I would lose my mind. Well, I ordered this pack of maternity underpants from the mail, and he picked it up and he's like, whoa, what is this? Because it was so heavy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Of course. Yeah, those are big.

[Jo Firestone]

But that's tough that it's heavy for him, right? He thought that was heavy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Heavy package. Maternity underpants are large. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

It's basically like wearing one of those baseball bases.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. One of those bags. Yeah, yeah. Second base. You're just wearing second base around your bottom.

[Jo Firestone]

Wait, can I tell you though something? Because I like, I have not really left my house a lot.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

I don't really do stand up anymore.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know this. It's. It to me it does. It makes no sense. You're one of my favorite stand ups. You don't do stand up.

[Jo Firestone]

But I don't leave that. I'm not leaving the house that much anymore. So I'm staying home a lot. And so like. And so I love. I'm watching a lot of Love island, but I don't watch it with Mike because he doesn't. He doesn't. He thinks it's bad. So I gotta watch it at like 5am okay. But. But we watched. We just watched Lord of the Rings for the first time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, the movies.

[Jo Firestone]

The movies.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

I've never seen them and I these things. This movie first came out, this trilogy first came out in 2001. That's 25 years ago. I've been looking like Frodo this whole time. No one tells me to myself, no question this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

So then I'm like, what are they saying? They must be saying, calling up a picture. You just google me because I look like Frodo.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Frodo. This is interesting that you should say that.

[Jo Firestone]

I don't even know why. Like, you know when you go to this is. That is me. I look like I got the same haircut as Frodo. I've had the same haircut as Frodo for 20 years.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. Hair, yes. I don't think.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Facial.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Facial similar. You're doing the eyes right now. Is that I got.

[Jo Firestone]

My ring's in the same place as Frodo.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Jo Firestone]

Cause I can't fit them on my fingers anymore.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. I know what you mean about the hair. Like the hair is not that dissimilar from Frodo.

[Jo Firestone]

I just like couldn't believe how it was. It's hard to see yourself on screen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know what you mean though. It's not so different. But it's mostly hair. It's mostly the hair. You'd hope, right?

[Jo Firestone]

But also like, he's like a little guy. He's supposed to be a little guy. That. That Loves to like eat little sausages.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you're watching Lord of the Rings for the first time because you're pregnant and you're like, oh, no, I'm Frodo and no one told me I'm Frodo.

[Jo Firestone]

It's tough because, you know, they're saying it behind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, totally. And I don't think they are. I mean, I know what you mean though. I mean, certainly I've never said that Joe looks like Frodo. But I will say, like, I, I've had this thing recently where like, I don't think about what I I look like until I'm walking down the street and like a pear shaped middle aged ogre walks up to me and goes, I totally relate to your comedy. And I'm like, oh, okay, I guess that's. I guess I look a little bit like that guy. But before that I didn't actually know what I looked like. I don't think, I just don't think about it. I'm like a blank slate. I think I'm nothing. Well, I think I look like nothing.

[Jo Firestone]

Try watching Lord of the Rings for the first time, realizing then, no, I know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I know what you mean.

[Jo Firestone]

That's pear shaped.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you think he's supposed to

[Jo Firestone]

be jelly bean shaped?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you think you look like? What? Before you saw Lord of the Rings, what did you think you looked like?

[Jo Firestone]

Like, you know when you go to get a haircut, you like pull up all these images.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, I've heard that people do this. I've never done this.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, they pull up these images of like, cute. You just go in there and you say, do whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, do whatever. You really do do whatever. That's like literally what I do.

[Jo Firestone]

You don't, you don't have a in mind?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nope. When I go to the haircut, I go, I go see how like, it doesn't look like anything. Like, doesn't look like it has a part. It doesn't look like it's supposed to be anything. That's sort of like what it is. That's literally what it's like.

[Jo Firestone]

And you say keep it that way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I go, yeah, whatever that is. Just less of it.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't show them a photo.

[Jo Firestone]

Well, it's like for years I've been googling photos of like, it's like thin curly hair, like small head, curly hair, good haircut, these things. I've spent probably a year of my life googling pictures of beautiful women with sort of my hair texture to show these people. When all these years, I could have just been saying, give me the Frozen.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Give me the Frodo.

[Jo Firestone]

And that's what they do. I get the same name.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What if you walked in the salon and they go, frodo's here.

[Jo Firestone]

They probably do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And they ring a bell.

[Jo Firestone]

They probably do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a secret bell. They have a little silent alarm under their station and it. And it says Frodo. It lights up.

[Jo Firestone]

Can you believe Samwise Ganges?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What?

[Jo Firestone]

Can you believe that's our president?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Who?

[Jo Firestone]

Sam Wise Gamgee.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you mean, Samwise Gamgee? Who's that? Is that in Lord of the Rings?

[Jo Firestone]

Okay, he's a president. Sag Aftra.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, he's the president of Sag Aftra. You know, sometimes when people say the president, I don't immediately go to Sag Aftra. Usually go to the President of the United States or something like that.

[Jo Firestone]

I could not believe it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, so one of the people in Lord of the Rings is our president. Our president of Sag Aftra. Wow.

[Jo Firestone]

You got that written down?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, but it's funny. I have a Lord of the Rings joke. It's so coincidental.

[Jo Firestone]

Cause I'll get it now. I didn't get any of this stuff before Galadriel.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, I had this thing where I was like, there's all these reverse aging skin oils, but I'm. I'm pretty sure they're just oil. Because when. When you read the ingredients, it's not. It's like oil, green tea extract. And then I wrote. I was like, free associating. Like, if I made skin cream on the ingredients, I would just write God's magic. And people would be like, wait, what? How can you prove it's God's magic? And I'd be like, isn't that what faith is? But the actual. Okay, so that's what I wrote down. But then actually, I had a callback to it a while back, which was like. Like, the lotions. I go for the lotion. I get the lotions.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

The lotions aren't working.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The lotions are like, if Gollum used lotion. Like, if Gollum. And you know that if Gollum used lotion, they'd be like, gollum, it looks good.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

I think the lotions are working.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And he'd be like, the lotions aren't working. Gollum's in Lord of the Rings, right?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

But part of them would be like, the lotions are working. They love the lotions. He's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I should do this a bit, right?

[Jo Firestone]

You should.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Problem? The lotions Aren't working or the lotions are working. The lotions are working. I feel like we're all Gollum with these lotions. You know what I mean? Like, everyone's using the lotions.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

The lotions aren't working well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Cause we're all Gollum.

[Jo Firestone]

Also. Cause he starts off as Andy Serkis.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Human, Right. Did you know this?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you mean? Gollum starts off as a human.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But then he becomes Gollum.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. Basically through want.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Through want. Yep.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. Somehow he. His eyes grow apart and he gets. And he loses a few teeth and then he's Gollum and he does. His bones get smaller and then he loves the taste of wet, delicious fish.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So I think I should include that in the joke.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Loves the taste of wet, delicious fish. The lotions are working. I love the taste of wet, delicious fish.

[Jo Firestone]

They're like, you've been writing jokes by someone weird. You're like, yeah, sorry about that. We'll cut the next part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Are you kidding me? No, this stays in.

[Jo Firestone]

Have you tried it yet?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wet, delicious fish?

[Jo Firestone]

No, no, no, I just pulled a spot. Have you tried the Gollum?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. You know what's funny? I ran it on this show. It's been in my notebook for a few years. I ran it on this show for people who wanna peek behind the curtain of, like, how these jokes end up being, like, jokes on stage versus just being on the podcast kind of thing is like, I swear to God, I'll write hundreds, if not thousands of jokes. And most of them are garbage. You know what I mean?

[Jo Firestone]

Sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just like, garbage. I actually saw. I think it was on the New York Times interview with Olivia Rodrigo the other day. She had an album come out. She was like, I write thousands of songs. You just hear the good ones, you know? And I was like, oh, I totally relate to that.

[Jo Firestone]

Whoa.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That makes a lot of sense to me because, like, yeah, I write tons and tons and tons of jokes and then I'll try them out on the show here, and then if they feel like something, I'll try them on stage. And then sometimes, like, they. They just do terribly on stage and then they. They're never to be heard from again. But in the case of Gollum's lotions, I did it a few years ago on an episode to be Remain nameless. And it. And it. The person just didn't dig it that much. And it took. It took the wind out of my sails on Gollum's lotions. And just. I haven't done it since. But actually, what's funny is when I remember when I first had it, I'm

[Podcast Host/Producer]

like, this is pretty funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, there's something here because also it ties into, like, another thing I've been trying to work on. I did a few episodes ago about how, like, the hotness industry is like this billion dollar industry, but, like, how many hot people do you see a day? Like Joe Firestone? Like, how many do you see a day? People are hot. Bonafide hot.

[Jo Firestone]

Zero.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. You say zero. I've heard people say five. My number would be like three maybe. Think about how many people you see a day. How many people you see?

[Jo Firestone]

I was in Central park today.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Probably see 500,000 people.

[Jo Firestone]

My neck was going 360 trying to find somebody.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. You see, let's say you see 500,000 people a day. Three people are hot. I mean, that is a failing industry. And by the way, those people probably were already hot.

[Jo Firestone]

No, they should make that industry the dog industry. Then they know it's working.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

It's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's. Yeah. So anyway, maybe there's a universe where the billion dollar hotness industry, gollums, lotions, and then the God's magic could all fit together into like a run about lotions and skin oils. I don't know.

[Jo Firestone]

I think it's good. I think that person, whoever they were, when they heard the joke, they just hadn't seen Lord of the Rings.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

That could be.

[Jo Firestone]

Cause a lot of stuff people My whole. The last 25 years, I've missed a lot of references.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

People have been shouting Lord of the Rings stuff of me for decades.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And I don't know any of it. And now I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, totally. I think I feel that way about Lord of the Rings. Like, I saw it when it came out. That was it. I saw the first one when it came out. That's my only point of reference.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay. I do the crossword every day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I do too.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay. And they're always talking about Lord of the Rings.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're right.

[Jo Firestone]

More than Mel Ott. They're always talking about orcs and ents.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Mel Ot.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I'm like, more than Ione sky.

[Jo Firestone]

Oh, God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Can you believe how she was in it yesterday?

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, she was. And she's getting some good airplay with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I know.

[Jo Firestone]

I don't know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's certain people. Gets so much action in the crossword.

[Jo Firestone]

Absolutely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, or does O, R E Any kind of metal. Metal. Compare Bobby or. Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Come on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The three letter celebrities are just killing it in the crossword.

[Jo Firestone]

If you change your name to Mike Burr.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Burr.

[Jo Firestone]

You would be so successful. You'd get that. You'd get that New York Times hit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'd get that Bill Burr spill off, too.

[Jo Firestone]

Oh, that'd be so good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But, like. But hold on. This is interesting. I didn't know you and I both did a crossword. How many days do you get in per week? Because I. Cause I. It gets sticky for me around Thursday, and then I have to do check puzzle.

[Jo Firestone]

I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I do check puzzle. Usually Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, Friday, Saturday, I'm checking puzzle.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, Friday, Saturday. But what about Sunday?

[Jo Firestone]

Sunday. Sometimes I can get through.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, you get through it without a check puzzle.

[Jo Firestone]

Yesterday, I thought this is. I could do this yesterday.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Here's. I'm gonna tell these guys. These are the producers of the podcast. You're gonna wanna take this out. I implore you to keep it in, and I'll tell you why. The nerds like me and Joe want to know about using the check puzzle. And I know in your mind, you guys are looking at this going, we're cutting this out. We edit the podcast. This is f. Fully boring to the people, the true nerds. This is all that matters in the episode. Okay. And you know who really matters to

[Jo Firestone]

Bobby R. Can you imagine?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Do you think he even knows?

[Mike Birbiglia]

He must.

[Jo Firestone]

But the. The. Anyway, they're always saying, like, the clues are always, like, mystical creature, enemy of the elves. And I'm like, now I know for sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Jo Firestone]

I didn't know an ent from an org.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Now I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I had to learn Spanish to get better at the crossword.

[Jo Firestone]

Of course you did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

To be able to answer an aunt in Mexico City. Oh, gosh.

[Jo Firestone]

But I do think that Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are the same movie. That's what we realized.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

It's exactly the same. Yep.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yep.

[Jo Firestone]

It is. Yes. Absolutely.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

These bamboo sheets are pretty much the

[Podcast Host/Producer]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean sleep is obviously big concern for me.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

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[Mike Birbiglia]

I have questions.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You got married at city hall.

[Jo Firestone]

I did, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Who was your witness?

[Jo Firestone]

Oh, I thought. Who was your husband? Mike. My, my dad was the witness.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's nice.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. But like so basically we were like so worried because they were like, it's going to take four hours.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Cuz I got Mary City hall too.

[Jo Firestone]

You did?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. It took a while.

[Jo Firestone]

We were like rushing our parents. We're like, we got to do this. And so like my dad went through security and they made him take his belt off.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And then like he, like he wasn't like he was. We were rushing him so much he didn't have time to put his belt back on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

By the time he was like at their desk, like making an oath. So he had to make an oath while holding up one. He held up his pants with one hand and had his hand up with the other. And I was like, this is our witness.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think he was one of the people who said, I relate to your comedy

[Jo Firestone]

but then he's like, I have

[Mike Birbiglia]

a. I have a. A lot of. My demo is people holding up half of their pants with their hands.

[Jo Firestone]

You gotta do more jokes about belts. You can change lives. But he does this thing where he, like, my dad's really big on. He has his. His pockets are filled with peppermints and two dollar bills.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

And so, like, whenever it's like, he has, like, a good interaction with anybody.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

He'll, like, handshake them either a $2 bill or a peppermint.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's nice.

[Jo Firestone]

It's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Jo Firestone]

A little strange.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's strange. No, no, without a doubt it's strange. But I. It's pretty nice.

[Jo Firestone]

But he gave her a $2 bill,

[Mike Birbiglia]

and I was like, the security woman.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Interesting.

[Jo Firestone]

And I was like, I don't know if that feels.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Jo Firestone]

I don't know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Jo Firestone]

But, yeah, we just got. We did. We got married and then we went to Carmines.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Oh, Carmines is nice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Families in Times Square.

[Jo Firestone]

No, the one on the Upper west side.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, he was pretty good. They. They. They know they serve too much, so they start giving you doggy bags halfway through the meal. That's a good restaurant.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you just. Did you just get married, like, just recently in.

[Jo Firestone]

In February?

[Mike Birbiglia]

February. So was it a shotgun wedding, like, in the sense of, okay, I'm pregnant?

[Jo Firestone]

Huh? Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. I said, come on, let's do this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did your dad know you were pregnant?

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, everybody knew we were pregnant.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, well, we were, like, pre engaged.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Pre engaged.

[Jo Firestone]

And that was before I got pregnant. And then I was like, come on, now, let's do it. Come on. Marriage.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you want to get married or did you just feel like, okay, I

[Jo Firestone]

was given ultimatums left and right. We've been together for eight years. I've been given ultimatums for seven of eight years.

[Mike Birbiglia]

For seven of eight years.

[Jo Firestone]

And each time he's saying, absolutely, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Ultimatums don't get enough respect.

[Jo Firestone]

They're not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And ultimatums are fine. I think all the. There's a lot of ultimatum. Shame. Shame them.

[Jo Firestone]

Shame them. That sounds like a really good one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's a lot of ultimatum.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Shame.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I meant to say. And I don't think there should be. It's fine.

[Jo Firestone]

You do them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I would do them. I didn't do them, but I would do them. It was like, well, it's like stating

[Jo Firestone]

your intention well, but then you got,

[Mike Birbiglia]

this is what I want.

[Jo Firestone]

It actually creates.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is how I see it.

[Jo Firestone]

It creates more work for Yourself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jo Firestone]

If you don't build this birdhouse, I'm going to do it myself. Whoops. You got to build a birdhouse.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I had. I felt like I had to look this up.

[Jo Firestone]

What?

[Mike Birbiglia]

A shotgun wedding is a hastily arranged marriage prompted by an unplanned pregnancy. The term originates from the historical notion that the bride's father or male rel. Relatives would literally threaten a reluctant groom with a shotgun to force him to marry the woman and protect the family's honor. So is that what happened? Sure.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. Absolutely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I figured.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. There's guns. You better marry my 40 year old daughter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is so wild. So you got pregnant and then you're like, it's my seventh ultimatum.

[Jo Firestone]

Yes. Yes. I said, well then. But then with the city hall, they only let you plan it three weeks in advance.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And so you're like, I'm just gonna do it. Yeah, we're just gonna do it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And so I was like, can. And he, he's got a lot of. He works a lot. So I was like, are you working then? And he's like, no. And I was like, we're doing it then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Jo Firestone]

I know. It was pretty exciting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I have a hard time taking you seriously because of the way you speak.

[Jo Firestone]

For sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Does that ever come up in life where you're trying to do serious things and people are like laughing and you're like, no, no, I'm serious.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, yeah, I do think.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, I'm trying. No, I'm trying to get married. They're like, ha, ha ha.

[Jo Firestone]

I do think. I do think. But again, these are things where I'm like, I'm going in here. Basically. Here's the thing, and I think you talked about this just now where it's like your perception, you are. In my mind, I am a normal height. I don't look like anybody from the rings.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And I have a normal voice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jo Firestone]

And I can go through life that's. Right. Smoothly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jo Firestone]

However, actually, each of those three things provides hiccups.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jo Firestone]

Right. To the point where almost everything is difficult.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Yeah. It's got pluses and minuses.

[Jo Firestone]

No, just minuses.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Just minuses.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yep.

[Jo Firestone]

Do you find that you go through life pretty smoothly?

[Podcast Host/Producer]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I got towed the other day. I. I was. I was in Hudson Valley scouting the summer camp for this movie I'm writing. And then I drove home to my daughter's end of year swim party. And I was just like, I'll park right here. I'll run in I come out, car's gone. Like, car. Oh, car's stolen. I'm, like, running around, and then I remember my laptop's in the. In the car. And so I'm like, oh, oh, no. I lost my laptop. But then I'm like, oh, I can track it. I can trap my laptop in here. So then I find the tracker, and I can see a little picture of a laptop, and it's, like, 10 blocks away. And then I'm jogging. I'm fully sweating, no belt, pants. Pants falling down, people going, I totally relate to you. I go, I real. I realize it's like the navy yard. It's like me. And I. I wait in a long line. And then I. I have no idea how to do this. I mean, I. I. I go, I have a car. This is the key. I think it might be here. He. He's like, what's. What's the license plate? I don't even know what the license plate is. He. He pays. He has a bill. I pay the thing. This is what kills me. You're in these situations and stuff, you know? And I go, hey. And I've been nothing but, like, sweet and, like, passive, and I. And I go, like, okay, now that I've paid this, where should I go for the car? And he goes, I told you over there. And in my mind, I'm going, you didn't tell me. I might have been doing this wrong 10 different ways, but I know for sure. You didn't tell me. I know for sure. And you're yelling at me. You're yelling at me. Your thesis, which is that you already told me anyway, which is all to say, no, it's not all. Unkidori.

[Jo Firestone]

Did you know why you got towed? You parked on top of a fire hydrant.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, no, it wasn't even a fire hydrant. It was just no parking. It wasn't even a tow zone. I think they were a little toe happy.

[Jo Firestone]

Dang.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know.

[Jo Firestone]

Brutal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, it was rough. Do you have an update on how your senior citizen comedy students are doing?

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Saw them yesterday.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You teach senior citizens how to do comedy?

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, or used to.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. At this point, it's more of a community meeting. Okay, so. So we meet every week on Zoom. And.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And how long have you been doing this? Ten years.

[Jo Firestone]

Six years.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Six years.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

A little over six years. Yeah. And I just learned this week that they have to be over 60 to be in the class.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why?

[Jo Firestone]

That's a rule.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

So I said, if anybody's here, kind of skirting under.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Any young chickens, you gotta go. But luckily they said they're all over 60.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

But that they're doing pretty good. But they did tell me recently, they told me a couple months ago that they haven't learned anything in years. But they do keep showing up.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They haven't learned anything in years.

[Jo Firestone]

Well, I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

From the meetings about comedy.

[Jo Firestone]

I mean, okay, six years of teaching comedy class.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. There's only so many lessons.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. What can you say? At a certain point you're just kind of saying, well, today's more of a. Let's. Let's just chat.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

But sometimes I bring in guest teachers.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And then they get really excited because they think finally we're gonna learn something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sometimes I have to say, sometimes I think I should just be performing in old folks homes and prisons and hospitals. I do think that's something you'd crush. Well, I always think that, like, I'm always like, wait, isn't that at the heart of all of this? Isn't that at the heart of comedy just making people laugh who maybe are having a hard day?

[Jo Firestone]

I will say, in theory, absolutely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

During Hurricane Sandy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

God, what a pivot.

[Jo Firestone]

I had the same thought.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Isn't comedy supposed to get people through the hardest times?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Isn't that the idea?

[Jo Firestone]

I go to a place where a lot of people have been relocated, their homes have been destroyed. They're in this armory. Right. It's a lot of elderly people. The lunches are always late. There's setup cots. And I say, I can do comedy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

I can bring lightness to this space. I made these people so angry. They were shouting at me to be quiet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Leave.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Do not speak anymore.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God. And then they go, I already told

[Podcast Host/Producer]

you that

[Jo Firestone]

I could not. It was. I realized you have to be. I think I'm at the skill set where I can make moderately happy people laugh a little bit more than they were going to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jo Firestone]

But to make people in despair change180, that is not my skill set.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's interesting. I think it could be. I think you and I could team up.

[Jo Firestone]

You could do it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I think you and I both. I think we could do hit some prisons and hospitals and.

[Jo Firestone]

Cause then this guy came in with a trumpet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And the trumpet killed.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, the trumpet killed.

[Jo Firestone]

People love the trumpet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the thing. It's what I always envy about musicians. It's part of the reason why I've been. I picked up the guitar recently after like literally 20 years, because I'm Like, I want to be able to walk in any room and have some form of entertainment that will work regardless of the situation. Yeah, yeah, I have that exact thing.

[Jo Firestone]

As long as you have your guitar with you. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just so that, like, honestly, like, I love street performers because they do the job of getting your attention if they're good.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And also entertaining you.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like both of those things are occurring simultaneously.

[Jo Firestone]

You love street performers.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yep.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Busker.

[Jo Firestone]

You stop.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Buskers.

[Jo Firestone]

You stop and you enjoy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. When. I mean, when they're good. And sometimes they're really good. Yeah, Sometimes they're really good.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. And then. And so. And you wish you could do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I do.

[Jo Firestone]

You ever done it? Maybe comedy on a. On a train?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Never done that, but I. I've done, like, outdoor kind of festivals where it's not really even announced that someone's doing comedy. There's just a comedy stage.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

At like a rock and roll fe. And so you really have to fight for people's attention and then entertain. And it was all right.

[Jo Firestone]

Really?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it was okay. I mean, I'm not saying it went great, but it was like, oh, okay, this is interesting.

[Jo Firestone]

I would say I've done that as well. And that went pretty poorly as well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Like, they basically. I need them strapped down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, you need them strapped down.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah. But that's the great thing about writing a book is that you don't know what they're doing. They could be, you know, wiping with the whole thing.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Sorry.

[Jo Firestone]

They could be juggling with it, but you go, wiping.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What does that mean? Wiping?

[Jo Firestone]

I was making an allusion to the idea that they would be taking a dump and use my book. Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what it was.

[Jo Firestone]

That was. And I was hoping it would be quite a quick second.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, No, I understand. I. I hope people get your book that they. That they wipe and that they don't get pink eye.

[Jo Firestone]

Can you. Oh, can you imagine? Can you imagine, though? Can you imagine if my book gave people pink eyes?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. That would be unbelievable. I mean, it would be the most hated book.

[Jo Firestone]

How'd you get that? How'd you get pink eye?

[Mike Birbiglia]

How'd you get pink eye?

[Jo Firestone]

Oh, from this goddamn book. I don't even.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's on Murder Island.

[Jo Firestone]

Can't even tell you the title.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I can't. Yeah, it's embarrassing.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Support for working it out comes from Forkful. Forkful is the first 100% seed oil free meal delivery service built for health conscious people who refuse to compromise on ingredients. Forkful meals are chef cooked fresh, never frozen ready to eat meals made with high quality premium proteins ingredients like fresh vegetables, grass fed bison, wild caught salmon. They're delicious. I have to say, eating well can be very difficult when life gets busy. Mine is very busy right now. A lot of times I don't have time to prepare a nice healthy meal. So it's nice to have these meals on standby. They can be a lifesaver, honestly, especially on a busy work day. Eating well doesn't have to be complicated with fully prepared, deliciously healthy meals. Explore our plans and menu of fresh ready to eat [e-mail] and use code BURBIGS to get 50% off your first order. That's forkfulmeals.com BURBIGS and use promo code BURBIGS for 50% off. My thanks to Forkful for sponsoring this episode. Support for a Working out comes from Quince August is the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. That's why I love shopping at Quint's. Quince is all about fewer, better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials, built to last, designed to become the ones you reach for day after day. Listen, let's be honest. If you're like me, you're getting a few days out of each item of clothing. Nothing wrong with that. But if you're going to wear the same shirt, same pants or same sweater a few days in a row, make

[Mike Birbiglia]

sure it's from Quints because they use high quality design and materials.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

They're built to last. And it's not just clothing. Quince has become my go to for everything from hotel quality bedding and bath essentials to premium cookware and travel must haves. Upgrade your everyday Download the Quint app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com Burbigs get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Burbigs support for working out comes from Mint Mobile. When we were kids, summer meant freedom. No homework, no teachers, no school. And as adults, summer still means freedom thanks to Mint Mobile's summer sale. Right now all of Mint Mobile's plans are 15 bucks a month, even unlimited. So free yourself from Big Wireless and their gimmicks and gotchas and switch to Mint Mobile for high speed data and coverage on the T Mobile 5G network to get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month. Go to mintmobile.com burbigs that's mintmobile.com burbigs Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com brbigs that's it. There's no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required, $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. May slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot capable. Device required. Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you have any jokes? Do you have any jokes in progress? I know you don't, quote, unquote, do stand up anymore, but like, a lot of times we work out jokes on here, and you're one of my favorite comics. I'm just like, you must have an arsenal of things in your head that are kind of half developed.

[Jo Firestone]

Jokes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, jokes.

[Jo Firestone]

Well, I'll say this. This is not a joke, but I think there's something there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay. So I have to get these new bras.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Right. And at this point, basically, the bras are the shape and size of mixing bowls.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay. So then I. I went to go pick them up. You have to order them specialty.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay. Because they don't sell these in stores because they would scare people.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Oh, that's not a part of the body. Yeah, it is. It's a part of the body.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah, of course.

[Jo Firestone]

So I ordered them, and then I have something mixed. And then I said I tried to return it. They wouldn't. They wouldn't let me. Yeah, they said, this is. This is too rare of a thing. Yeah, you have to take this home. So now I'm thinking about using it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The bowls.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, using it as bowls.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's great. You know what you should get, you should get those Katy Perry, like, spinning bra things.

[Jo Firestone]

If I could return it, I'd get it in a heartbeat. But these things are. They're too strict. But these, it's really. It's like you kind of have in your mind what a bra looks like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. And this is not that.

[Jo Firestone]

Now you think about mixing bowls.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Oh, what would I use to make a pasta salad?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Jo Firestone]

How about two of those?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I like that.

[Jo Firestone]

What else are you working on?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let me see. Let me see if I have anything. There's this story that I did on this American Life years ago, but I never did it on an album. And I'M like, looking back on it,

[Podcast Host/Producer]

going, oh, it was. I. I should do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like. Cause it's still. You ever look at other, like, old bits and you go, like, how come I stop doing that?

[Jo Firestone]

No, but I think that that is a superpower of yours.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Really?

[Jo Firestone]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

Because me, I look back at bits and I say, why did I start? And I think that that is. I think that to understand. Do you know when have you ever taken a pottery class?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

So they give you this big lump of clay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

And you're supposed to do. And it might not turn out well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

But then they're like. At a certain point, they're like, you gotta. You gotta give back the clay and get new clay. Cause you've used it too much. But I don't think you ever think that. It seems like you're like, you got. You can make something from this. Like, have you ever, like. I feel like you're not someone who looks back at their old work with shame. And I think that's a really powerful thing to do and important for productive comedian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't look at much with shame, but honestly, I don't look at much.

[Jo Firestone]

Really?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

Like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, it's. If I did spend time looking at my old specials, I'd be like, would you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I. But I try not to do that. So anyway, I. This is a. This is a story done this American life a while back, which is. One day I was on the bus in New York City, and this lady walks on the bus, and she was pretty. And she wasn't just bus pretty.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

She was pretty for the world,

[Mike Birbiglia]

which was shocking for us bus goers. So I did this thing. I did this thing I sometimes do, and I see a pretty lady, which is. I looked at her long enough to realize she's pretty. Then I looked at the floor, and then I never looked up again. That's my move. So I'm staring at the floor. I glance up at this guy who was next to me, and he was staring at her like a vulture. And it made me so mad because I wanted to say to this guy,

[Podcast Host/Producer]

like, we all want to stare at

[Mike Birbiglia]

that lady, but we don't, because we are decent people. We've decided as a group we're not gonna stare at that pretty lady. But that's the difference between creepy people and decent people. Creepy people do things decent people want to do but have decided are not probably not a great idea. Decent people are like, I would like to stare at that lady. But that would make her uncomfortable, creepy people are like, Look, I'm 57 years old. I have a thin mustache, glasses, from the 70s. I'm going for it. So I tell Jenny, my wife, the story, and she goes, is the moral of the story that you want credit for not being creepy? And I said, I think that's what it is. I think decent people should be treated like firemen. We should have a day and a calendar. One month is just a guy at a pharmacy buying tampons and a yogurt. Another month is a guy holding a cup of tea with two hands. My month is just me in a sweatsuit scooping a litter bin. And Jenny goes, but you do get credit. I married you. And I said, I want more than that. And that's the end. So I came across that the other day and I was like, that's a fun story. It didn't make it into anything, partly because it wasn't. Usually what happens with my stories is if they don't make it in, it's because they're not about anything that has to do with what the rest of the show is about. Yeah, so I was kind of like, as an open ended question, I would go like say to you, what's that about? Is that about anything?

[Jo Firestone]

Well, I think that ties right into your. I was gonna say Gandalf cream, but

[Mike Birbiglia]

it's the skin oils.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, yeah, I think that goes right into it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's interesting. The hot people industry. Yeah, right, right, right. The billion dollar being hot industry.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, that's the same kind of thing, right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

The person who's bus pretty. Yeah, yeah. Not just bust pretty, but pretty for the world.

[Jo Firestone]

Cause you talk about how many people, how many hot people have you seen?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I say three a day, five a day, maybe you say zero and

[Jo Firestone]

you say, and how many of those people you seen on a bus?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Very few. Almost never. It's like a unicorn really is. It's almost never. But like, yeah, I think that that's interesting. But I guess the question is like, is that relatable? Is that how you feel on public transport? Do you ever think about that? Staring at people? Not staring at people, not looking at people, Giving people space.

[Jo Firestone]

You know what? I do think that it's important to not give people or to give people space. But now I will say that this is this new thing where I thought when I was pregnant, people would stand.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh my gosh.

[Jo Firestone]

And they do not stand.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

They don't stand.

[Jo Firestone]

They look at me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I stand.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

I stand.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I would stand if I were there.

[Jo Firestone]

They look at me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Jo Firestone]

They look at me like I've got some kind of disease.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Which.

[Jo Firestone]

Yes, sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Pink eye.

[Jo Firestone]

Yes, absolutely. I've got pink eye in both eyes, of course. And yes, I'm touching the pole, and yes, I'm sure they don't want to touch the pole after me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Shame on them, though, not standing up for you.

[Jo Firestone]

But I think that that's. I think that what it requires is the pregnant person to stare down the people sitting.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think so.

[Jo Firestone]

So I think it requires you to be indecent.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You have to be indecent and.

[Jo Firestone]

Cause. And then I was like, I don't even know. Who do I look at? And.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jo Firestone]

And Mike was like, look at. Look. Look at a woman, maybe. Look at a woman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jo Firestone]

And I was like, well, which woman? And he said, the littlest one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The littlest one.

[Jo Firestone]

I said, what? Yeah, why? He goes, just start there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The littlest one.

[Jo Firestone]

The littlest one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't know why. I wonder if people know you're pregnant.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Maybe you're, like, subtly pregnant or something,

[Mike Birbiglia]

but now you're not subtly pregnant, but maybe earlier in the pregnancy, you were.

[Jo Firestone]

Maybe.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Here's a hot take on people taking up space on the train. You know, this cliche is man spreading. Men, you know, they've Spreading their legs, and that's real. But a lot of people spreading. Like, people take up space. People take up space in ways that are really aggressive on those trains.

[Jo Firestone]

It.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it is men, but it is also other people.

[Jo Firestone]

The thing is. And I'll say this. This. The.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This. This is me on train.

[Jo Firestone]

But have you. Have you tried to spread? Have you tried to have.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, the whole rhyme. I'm, like, squeezing my shoulders right now.

[Jo Firestone]

I would say this if you were a comedian that did imp. Mm. They say, and you did that, and you go, what am I? What am I? And then you go, I'm a book on a shelf. You look like a book on a shelf.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A book on a shelf.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jo Firestone]

But you really should try it. It does feel awesome.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Spreading. Yeah, spreading. Okay. I mean, I could try it. I actually genuinely feel bad, but just

[Jo Firestone]

do it one night where it's just.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just for fun.

[Jo Firestone]

No one's on the train. You're not hurting anybody. Just try it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Keep in mind, the spreading is real. The man spreading is real. Like, I witnessed that a lot, too.

[Jo Firestone]

Sure.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's.

[Jo Firestone]

Yeah, they're spreading. They're splaining.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Of course they're spreading. They're splaining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

[Jo Firestone]

It feels good to splain and it feels good to spread.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. That's the takeaway here.

[Jo Firestone]

Absolutely.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I got you a thong. I wanted you to have this. I.

[Jo Firestone]

All right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The last thing we do, the last thing we do is working it up for a cause. Is there a non profit? I know you do a ton of nonprofit benefits and things. Is there a nonprofit you like to give to? We will contribute to them and link to them in the show notes.

[Jo Firestone]

You know what I really like now is this nonprofit Baby to Baby.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Baby to baby. Yeah, it's great.

[Jo Firestone]

So it gives baby supplies and to people that need it. And then also in Christmas time, they do like, big, like, gifts for kids.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's baby2baby.org that's great.

[Jo Firestone]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're going to contribute to them. We're going to link to them in the show notes. And Joe Firestone, can I tell you this?

[Jo Firestone]

These cards, you look at, I know you just ended this, but I just gotta say this. These cards, you know, you're just like taking it all in. I would say 85% of them have the word pizza on them. Yeah, you got your next hour.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, there's a lot of pizza. I write a lot of pizza jokes. I write a lot of food jokes. I mean, it's just like what's on my brain. But then I only. I limit myself to a certain number of pizza jokes per special. I'll only do about four pizza jokes per special.

[Jo Firestone]

I got integrity.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it out. Cause it's not done. We're working it out one on one.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

That's gonna do it for another episode of working it Out. The best way to keep up with Jo Firestone because she's not really on social media, is to support subscribe to her substack newsletter. It's called Joe Firestone's passionate newsletter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It is so funny, like everything she does. You can [e-mail] you can get her

[Podcast Host/Producer]

new book sex on Murder island from your local bookstore. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to Working out Premium for the extended versions. We kept in all the stuff she demanded we keep out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's all over there on premium.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Check out burbigs.com to sign up for

[Mike Birbiglia]

the mailing list and to be the

[Podcast Host/Producer]

first to know about my upcoming shows. Our producers are working out are myself, along with Peter Salamone, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Ben Cruz. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music.

[Mike Birbiglia]

My wife, the poet J.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

Hope Stein and our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy this show, please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. It really helps people find it. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell Gollum from Lord of the Rings Next time you're in Middle Earth, stop by Gollum's place. Say, hey, Gollum, I know you're all bent out of shape about that ring, but maybe try listening to this podcast

[Mike Birbiglia]

called Mike Birbigli Is Working it out,

[Podcast Host/Producer]

and it's where Mike Birbiglia talks to

[Mike Birbiglia]

other comedians about the creative process. Maybe it'll help take your mind off that ring.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

You can even listen while you're enjoying some wet, delicious fish. Thanks everybody.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're working it out.

[Podcast Host/Producer]

We'll see you next time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sam.