BEST OF WIO: Tig Notaro

Summary

Title: BEST OF WIO: Tig Notaro
Host: Mike Birbiglia
Release Date: February 17, 2025

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Introduction

In this standout episode of "Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out," Mike welcomes the acclaimed comedian Tig Notaro for a special "Best Of" edition. Mike expresses his deep admiration for Tig, highlighting her reputation as an exceptional storyteller both on her podcast, "Handsome," and her compelling narratives on "This American Life." This episode revisits some of Tig's most memorable stories, offering listeners a blend of humor, vulnerability, and insightful conversation.

Comedy and Communication Style

Early in the discussion ([00:00]–[02:12]), Mike delves into Tig's unique comedic voice. He remarks, "Your jokes are some. Your voice sounds like you're joking in every sentence" ([01:45]). Tig acknowledges this trait, explaining that it requires listeners to actively discern when she's serious and when she's teasing, thereby adding a layer of depth to her humor. This communication dynamic sets the stage for their engaging dialogue throughout the episode.

Miscommunications and Awkward Moments

The conversation transitions to instances of miscommunication in comedy. Mike shares a personal anecdote about mishearing the name Shailene Woodley as "Shailene leans" during a special, leading Tig to joke about dating someone who "hunched" due to their height ([02:44]). Tig recounts the awkwardness of explaining this joke to her wife and Reese Witherspoon, emphasizing how such misunderstandings can lead to humorous yet uncomfortable situations.

Viral Party Bus Incident

One of the episode's highlights is Tig's recounting of a viral video featuring her and other celebrities like Sarah Paulson and Allison Janney on a party bus. During a lively dance session, Allison Janney unexpectedly lifts Tig in a manner akin to a Heimlich maneuver, resulting in Tig breaking ribs ([14:46]). She humorously describes the aftermath: "We arrived at the show and I did my show with broken ribs" ([15:00]). This story not only showcases Tig's resilience but also her ability to find humor in physical pain.

Coming Out to Children

A deeply personal segment unfolds as Tig discusses her experience of coming out to her children. At 53, Tig shares how her sons, Max and Finn, inadvertently discovered her sexuality ([19:26]). She narrates the emotional moment when Finn bluntly states, "You're gay. I think you're gay," prompting Tig and her partner, Stephanie, to reflect on their approach to parenting and communication. Tig emphasizes the complexities and vulnerabilities involved in redefining familial relationships.

Parenting Challenges and Insights

Building on the previous discussion, Tig delves into the challenges of explaining complex topics like sexuality and drug use to her children. She expresses frustration with the abruptness required for such conversations, calling it "psychotic" to suddenly introduce these subjects ([33:08]). This reflection highlights the delicate balance parents must maintain between protecting their children and fostering open, honest dialogue.

Relationship with Parents

Both Tig and Mike share intimate reflections on their relationships with their fathers. Mike discusses the generational and experiential gaps that created distance between him and his dad ([44:41]). Conversely, Tig recounts a poignant moment with her stepfather at her mother's funeral, where he apologized for his lack of support and expressed a desire to understand her better ([46:39]). Tig states, "It's the parents' responsibility to learn who their child is," underscoring the importance of empathy and understanding in familial bonds.

Advice and Life Lessons

Towards the episode's conclusion, Tig offers profound advice on living authentically: "The best gift you can give anyone is a well-lived life of your own and just how freed up you are" ([24:11]). She emphasizes the importance of shedding societal expectations and embracing one's true self, a sentiment that resonates deeply with listeners navigating their own personal journeys.

Notable Quotes

• Tig Notaro at [02:12]: "Look, I always say when people are like, 'Are you kidding?' I'm like, 'I don't even know. You decide.'”

• Mike Birbiglia at [27:04]: "We have lived with them for how long? It's been a bit, right?"

• Tig Notaro at [33:55]: "I think Stephanie and I are actually doing a really good job... They don't know we're gay."

• Tig Notaro at [47:25]: "What he said to me was, you know, I was projecting what I thought a person should do in life. I was putting importance on things that he like."

Closing Remarks

Mike wraps up the episode by thanking Tig for her candid and heartfelt storytelling, praising her ability to intertwine humor with profound personal experiences. Tig reciprocates the gratitude, expressing inspiration drawn from Mike and the conversation they've shared. The episode concludes with Tig recommending the World Resources Institute as a worthy cause, emphasizing the importance of environmental sustainability.

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Conclusion

This "Best Of" episode featuring Tig Notaro offers listeners a rich tapestry of humor, personal anecdotes, and insightful reflections on life, comedy, and parenting. Tig's storytelling prowess, combined with Mike's thoughtful hosting, creates an engaging and memorable listening experience. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to their work, this episode provides valuable lessons on authenticity, communication, and the complexities of human relationships.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

Tig Notaro. We are honored that you're here.

[Tig Notaro]

We are honored to be here.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We always talk about you here at the studio as our dream person to be in the studio because we remotely did an interview many years ago and it was a riot.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, thanks for flying me out here.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We did not fly you out. That is the voice of the great Tig Notaro. We are rerunning this episode today because it is one of our absolute favorites. If you missed this one, one, you're not going to want to miss it today. One of my favorite people to talk to. One of my favorite storytellers. You may have heard her on her own podcast, Handsome. You may have heard her in this American Life. She's told some amazing stories on there. She tells three stories on this episode that are all timers and I think you're going to love it. And by the way, thanks to everyone who's been coming out to my shows. I performed in West Palm beach, coming soon in Northampton, Burlington, Los Angeles and New York City. The Good Life at AKA Please Stop the Ride. It's been Please Stop the Ride. I named the tour at the beginning and then by the end, sometimes it's a different name. In this case it was Please Stop the Ride. And now it is The Good Life. Six shows at the Beacon Theater. Six shows. A sixth and final show has been added. Get [e-mail] There are still a few excellent orchestra and mezzanine seats for the final show. Sign up for the mailing list to be the first to know about any added shows. I love this conversation with Tig. It's always an honor to talk to Tig. It's one of the funniest people. Three incredible stories. One involves her coming out to her own kids. There's a mishap at a graveyard and tales from a lesbian party bus. What more could one want? Enjoy my chat with Tig Notaro. You have a social disease that I think I have as well, which is your jokes are some. Your voice sounds like you're joking in every sentence. And sometimes you're joking and sometimes you're not. So it puts it on the onus on the listener.

[Tig Notaro]

That's right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

To discern which are jokes and which are not.

[Tig Notaro]

Look, I always say when people are like, are you kidding? I'm like, I don't even know. I have no clue. You decide.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You decide. Have you ever had that really go south? Like, you talk a lot in your special about how you. You sometimes mishear something and it leads to like, you to Paraphrase Shailene, you're describing the heights of various actresses in Big Little Lies. And. And you. You didn't know Shailene Woodley was the name of an actor. And so you go. You thought you heard she leans.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then you go, I dated someone who hunched because they were tall.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that led to a very awkward.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. It was my wife and Reese Witherspoon were in the meeting, just staring at me like, why would you. After Reese was saying that Shailene is 5 8. Why would I then respond with, I dated a woman years ago that hunched.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I couldn't stop thinking about that since I saw the special. I can't stop thinking about that conversation. And then the original person who hunched.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Was Nicole Kidman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. No. But you're saying you dated someone.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Who hunched.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. With my ex. She reached out saying, hey, I heard you have a new special. And I was like, oh, yeah. And I do mention. Not by name, but I do mention you. And I haven't heard from her since, but we don't talk regularly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Hopefully she's dealing with that. Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You allude in the special to being attracted to fireman.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And who has a mustache like this. Got down the sides of his lips.

[Tig Notaro]

Didn't know I was into Mike. Mike. We can cackle about it all day. That is one of the. This was not a joke. I was so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I know. It's not a joke.

[Tig Notaro]

I know. You know, but, like, it is not a joke. I felt. I mean, it makes me. Like, when I think about it, I was truly. I didn't realize at the time I was bleeding internally, like, gushing blood internally. And he carries me out. When he lifted me up and was holding me in his arms, I truly was like. I melted. I didn't even. I could barely even think about my pain.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I want to ask a question about that in relation to the thing I'm working on in my new hour, because I have a thing where we were. Jenny and I were renting a house over the holidays, and the heat went off, and there was no one who would. Who could fix it. And then eventually, like, a third person comes.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And his name is Trevor.

[Tig Notaro]

You're not handy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I'm not. I mean, it's. It's embarrassing.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Are you.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm not. I don't lead with it, but I can do things. Stephanie also in the pandemic, you know, nobody's coming to the house. And so she fixed our garbage disposal. She put together a cabinet, and I Was like, where were you hiding all this dike a doodle do behavior?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sorry.

[Tig Notaro]

Dike a doodle doo behavior.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let me just look that up.

[Tig Notaro]

You don't need to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let me just.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, is it back there?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's on the back of this.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, my gosh. What does it say?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's one of my questions. I had not heard that term. Is that an invented term?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I invented it. With beakers. With beakers.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In a lab. In a science lab with beakers.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, we.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Beakers and test tubes.

[Tig Notaro]

I thought you were gonna say testicles. I'm thinking about the fireman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right. So the fire. Okay, so the reason I brought this up is I was attracted to the guy who fixed our heat. And my question is, why is that? I don't know. I don't know.

[Tig Notaro]

You more funny to me than me being attracted to a big, hairy fireman. I think I love you even more than I. Not like, oh, a straight man is admitting that he had an attraction, but there's just something about your precious little face telling me that you're attracted to this man fixing stuff.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you think I'm brave?

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, next question. No, the reason I bring it up is do you think that there's a relationship between the fireman and this is to give context. It's in the context of, you had a medical incident, your wife calls 911, a fireman shows up, and he carries you out, and you're attracted to him. And you have these great. I have great jokes about it. But I had this attraction to this man who fixed the heat, and I heard about it. Do you think. Do you think.

[Tig Notaro]

Pull yourself together.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's un. Do you think it is related to how helpful the man was?

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, is that attractive? Is that aspect of it attractive?

[Tig Notaro]

No, it was purely his big, strong arms. I think whatever. You know, they say sexuality is a spectrum. I feel like whatever deep, deep level, I can be attracted to a man. Whatever aligned, everything that needed to align got me to that level. It was a fleeting moment, but it was there. And it felt very much just like when. When women talk or anybody talks about, like, a big, strong man picking you up or holding you or whatever it was. It. Whereas normally the thought of, like, a man holding me, I would be like, ye, no, thank you. Hard pass.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You've been. I was do. I was like. I was thinking, like, have you been doing comedy, like, 25 plus years at this point?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I think I'm coming up on 28.

[Mike Birbiglia]

28 years.

[Tig Notaro]

What about you?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think about 25.

[Tig Notaro]

Wow.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What would you tell your, your year one comedy self that you know now? Like, what would you, could you even possibly explain to your first year self what, what the hell you're doing?

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, it took me a while to realize that my fear made me. Even though I am very low key, deadpan, just in real life, I also have other sides of my personality and I thought, oh, I guess that's what I am as a comedian. I'm low key deadpan. And I started out doing kind of one liner, ish things.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I think I just would have told myself that you don't just find yourself and then necessarily.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And then just stick to that. You're going to be shifting and be open to things. Because I, I did reach a point where I started to want to try new things and experiment more and I started to feel more comfortable on stage and allowed myself to smile and move, you know. Well, because I feel like once you do find your voice, your voice is going to come through, whether you do one liners, 15 minute stories, prop comedy. It's just all your sensibility. And I feel like the audience is going to just accept whatever you do because you have found your voice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so funny. That's, that's sort of often, you know, Una was in like a play recently and I, I said to her, I go like, you know, whenever she does like a little theatrical thing, I'm always like, the play is whatever the audience sees. So if you miss a line, they don't know.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If you, if you don't do the blocking. Right. They actually don't know.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So it's just whatever comes out is the play and, and we'll all enjoy it.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think standup is like that.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think a lot of times, personally, I just forget that and then I have to remind myself and go, oh, right. It's just whatever you do. Yeah, that's the shit.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I. Yeah, that's such a profound thought of like your voice is what. You can't avoid your own voice.

[Tig Notaro]

No. And so stepping outside of your typical zone that you're in or it all carries over your sensibility.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And so I, once I started to realize that and get comfortable with it, it helped me to be able to grow and change.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Do you, you allude to this fireman who you're attracted to? Would you.

[Tig Notaro]

My taste is all over the place.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Would you genuinely consider a throuple?

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why not?

[Tig Notaro]

Are you interested?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. Oh, I'm not. Not interested.

[Tig Notaro]

Even if it was me and the fireman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because that would be a quadruple.

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

If it was Jenny or just me.

[Tig Notaro]

You and the fireman, Jenny, it's you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Me and the fireman. I don't think I'm gonna accept that invitation, which doesn't exist.

[Tig Notaro]

He could carry me around and he could fix things for you, and we could just be giggling, me and you. We're up here in our little podcast.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Room and he's like, we would giggle a lot.

[Tig Notaro]

Who wants to get carried out?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Jen's joke, Jen's running joke is that people always ask her, is he funny all the time? And she's just like, he's never funny.

[Tig Notaro]

Not once.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Why do you ask?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. The. Why do you ask? Well, it's funny because you allude to your son being like, I don't want two moms, I want three moms.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's the thrustle, which is the thruffle.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, yeah. No, I have no interest in that. Stephanie as well. But I do understand the appeal and the different strengths that everybody has.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Tig Notaro]

And Stephanie and I talk about how we. If we ever were in a throuple. All we're looking for, the only thing missing is we need somebody that can put together gift baskets.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that's a strong component.

[Tig Notaro]

Or like, throw a party.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, you need. Yeah, you need an organizer, a coordinator.

[Tig Notaro]

Somebody that has some, you know, flair.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The. Can we talk about the party bus?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sarah Paulson.

[Tig Notaro]

I've been on two.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, Sarah Paulson posted a video of you and Stephanie Holland, Taylor Glennon Doyle, Allison Janney and Abby Wambach dancing on a party bus that went viral. And there were headlines like, Sarah Paulson and Tig Notaro's Lesbian party bus Explained. I wrote the headline. I do some part time work over there.

[Tig Notaro]

Congrats.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That vulture. My question is, can you explain the lesbian party bus? And can you not leave out the part where Alison Janney breaks your ribs while hanging from a stripper pole?

[Tig Notaro]

We were going to my show. I was doing a show in Long Beach, California, and we decided, oh, my God, it'd be so fun to get a party bus. And. And we. We hit the. The freeway and we're flying down the road, you know, listen to the Indigo Girls and what have you. I mean, what else are you going to listen to? And Allison Janney, man, she's a tall drink of water. Yeah. And she's also in phenomenal shape.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, she leans.

[Tig Notaro]

She. She doesn't lean, actually. She does not lean. She is upright and solid. And this woman is, like, doing upside down pole dances and hanging from the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, wow.

[Tig Notaro]

She's no joke. Yeah, she is. No joke. Allison parties and she is strong and in shape. So everyone's dancing around, having a good time, and she comes up behind me and kind of lifts me kind of in a Heimlich maneuver way. And there's another video where you can actually see when my ribs are breaking.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Tig Notaro]

Because she picks me up and she's carrying me down the aisle of the party bus, and somebody's filming it. And as I'm coming towards them, my face just. I'm like. I was in so much pain. I didn't think at all I had broken ribs. And. Yeah. We arrive at the show and I don't like to get to shows very early. So very quickly after arrival, they got in their seats and I went on stage and I did my show with broken ribs and. But somebody posted the video.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And it went viral. And it still is making its rounds right now. You know, it's Gay Pride Month, and I think people are uploading it left and right, and it's become a credit of mine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah, it's a huge. It's a huge credit to be alongside those brilliant actors.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. On the lesbian party. Many of them weren't even lesbian, to be honest. You know, Allison Janney's not a lesbian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

But I think she could be swayed possibly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think if I were on the lesbian party bus, I feel like.

[Tig Notaro]

Which you won't be.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no. I'm saying a hypothetical.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay, if. Okay, if. Okay, let's hear it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Every time I say if you cut.

[Tig Notaro]

Me off, let's hear it. If you were on the lesbian party bus.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I was on the lesbian party bus. I think everyone would get that. I'm really cool and sort of ahead of things.

[Tig Notaro]

I love the idea of the camera panning to you and you're just sitting there like the dike a doodle Doo bus.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Support for Working it out comes from rinse. Let's talk about laundry. We have not talked about laundry on this show enough. I've thought about laundry a lot in my life. I lived in New York City a long time, which means hit or miss on the laundry front. Spent a lot of time with laundromats over the years. Covered 2 Drink Mike, me and a laundromat. I think it was in Reno, that Laundromat. I was performing at a NACA convention for college bookings across the country, and I was doing my laundry at a laundromat and I took that selfie and it's the COVID Do Drink Mike, the album. Anyway, enough about Laundromats. Rinse is better than Laundromats. That's why I'm talking about Rinse. Rinse picks up professionally, cleans, delivers your laundry and your dry cleaning right at your door. Your clothes are perfectly cleaned according to their care label and the Rinse service you select. Schedule your pickup any day of the week via the rinse app or Rinse.com Sign up at Rinse.com and get 20 bucks off your first order. That's R I N S E.com support for working it out comes from Helix. Helix has been a sponsor of Working it out for a long time. They cater to your every sleeping need. They do mattresses. As you might know, I have a sleep disorder. So I. I'm a pretty good source for mattress recommendations. I'm not a doctor. In fact, I'm a comedian. But I can tell you this is my favorite mattress I have ever owned. And I do. I really do sleep better on it. By the way, Helix does pillows. Let's talk about pillows for a second. The Helix Dream pillows. Ooh, I love these pillows. They are a. They're the kind of perfect pillows that aren't too firm, aren't too soft. I could talk about pillows and mattresses all day, but we got to get back to the podcast. So go to helixsleep.com for biggs for 20% off site wide, plus two free dream pillows with mattress purchase. That's helixsleep.com burbigs for 20% off. That's pretty good. Site wide, plus two free dream pillowers with mattress purchase. Helixsleep.com burbigs this is a slow round. Can you remember a time in your life where you ran away? You're so scared you ran away?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Can you say it?

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, to be honest, I almost ran away.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

From Stephanie. Oh, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And she had not dated a woman before and she wanted to be friends and I told her that I would love to be friends. I just kind of can't move beyond. We had. We had kissed one night and I was after this buildup of, like, I think I have a crush on this person. We end up kissing the next day. She wrote me like a 15 page email saying, I really love hanging out with you. I think you're so funny, but I'm not gay. I mean, really letting me down. And then I just wrote back, okay, dyke. And just like, because I couldn't really Argue, you know, But I just was like, oh, I'll just be light hearted about it. And wrote, okay, dyke, because last night you were making out, you didn't seem very straight. And so. But she was like, I want to be friends with you. And I said, I would love that. I just need a beat because I need to see you differently. Because I confess I'm a bit goo goo over you. So let me just kind of pull myself together and I'll come back to you when I feel like I can be friends.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And she was like, okay. And a couple of weeks went by and then she reached out to me and said, I would like to see you. And she comes in to my loft downtown and sits down and in very typical Stephanie Allen fashion, she just got up, came over, sat right next to me and said, I want to be with you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Aww.

[Tig Notaro]

And I was so stunned and I said, what do you mean? And she said, I've missed you. And I just realized that I want to be with you. And I didn't know how to take this in because I had spent the past two weeks just taking a deep breath and being like, yeah, I could be friends with her, no problem. And. And she said, but I don't expect you to drop your life. I know I told you that I couldn't be with you two weeks ago and now I'm saying I do want to be with you, so I want to be with you and I'm here if that is still an option. And I said, I have a date on Friday, I feel like I should still do that. But went on the date that wasn't going to happen because Stephanie and I wanted to be together. And about, I don't know, a couple of weeks into our relationship, I went over to her house to say, I can't be with you because I was so scared. I went over to her house, rang the doorbell, she opens the door and I was like, oh God, I can't do this. And I told her, I said, I came over here actually to break it off with you. And she was like, what? And I said, I'm scared. I am so scared. And so I didn't run away, but I went over there fully with the intention to run away. And then when I saw her, I was like, eh, I'll take my chances.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You were scared basically of probably being brokenhearted.

[Tig Notaro]

I was so scared of that particular person breaking my heart because I really had not ever seen forever with somebody.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I remember you were staying with me and Jenny around that time.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, And I was out of my mind.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You were out of your mind in love. You just kept being like, she sent me this text. What do you think this means? It's just like, I don't know, it could mean this. Could mean this. That was probably maybe a couple months in when you were staying with us.

[Tig Notaro]

And, well, we weren't together yet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You weren't together at that point?

[Tig Notaro]

No, we were still kind of texting, and it was leading up to when we actually did kiss.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I can't believe I almost broke that off.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's the best piece of advice that anyone's ever given you that you used?

[Tig Notaro]

Um, I mean, I say this all the time, but it really struck me and it really changed my life. And it's the best gift you can give anyone is a well lived life of your own and just how freed up you are. If your parents are happy living their life, your siblings, your friends, your kids, your spouse, if they're really thriving in their life, you are so free and the same in return, you know?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is there a song that makes you cry?

[Tig Notaro]

When Stephanie and I were first together, well, and we were talking, we had already decided to get married. We were lying in bed, and I had this idea, just go through my mind that that is a song we should walk down the aisle to. And it's John Denver's Sunshine on My Shoulder. And Stephanie wasn't familiar with it, but I was telling her that there was a line that said, if I could give you a day, I'd give you a day just like today. And. And that was in picturing the beauty of getting married on the beach in my hometown with the sun over the water. And when I said that to her, we both started crying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're a full romantic.

[Tig Notaro]

You are, are you not?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, I don't know. I think so.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But, like, you're a full romantic. And it runs in contrast with.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The tone of your comedy was just like, yeah, whatever, because I'm just talking up here.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, no big deal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Whatever is on my mind.

[Tig Notaro]

I love my wife. I love my kids.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you have any jokes you're working on right now that are kind of like half, half thoughts, half ideas?

[Tig Notaro]

Well, I have a couple that I feel like, have a lot of potential to be more of, like a. A show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Tig Notaro]

And one of them is that we were taking Max and Finn, our sons, to school. The drive is like six minutes from our house. And about three minutes into the drive, Stephanie and I are in the front talking about something, saying, oh, yeah, and that's when, you know, then they figured out we were gay. Or I. Then I said, I'm gay. I can't remember what we were talking about. And Finn interrupts us and says, oh, you're gay. Okay. This is nine months ago.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

We have lived with them for how long? It's been a bit, right? And we were done. We were so confused. And we were like, yes. And he said, what's gay? I was like, oh, my God. We are about to drop our kids off in three minutes. Like, it's two minutes now. And I'm like, our kids don't know we're gay. Like, dare I say we're even an iconic gay couple?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Tig Notaro]

I'd say it. Yeah. And I'm like, we're so confused. And I was explaining what gay was as we're pulling up to the school, and then I start feeling insecure. Like, are they gonna be bummed now that I explain that I just started feeling insecure?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Big. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And then I said, what do you think of that? And he was like, yeah, okay. And I said, but do you wish your family was different, or. I was. I was. This was so curvebally, right? And he was like, no, I love our family. And I was like, okay. And we drop them off, and we drove off, like, at half a mile an hour, stunned. We were like, our kids don't know we're gay. I mean, there's pictures of our wedding day on the wall. They know they have two mommies. And after we talked about it, we realized having two mommies and wedding pictures, a child doesn't know what gay is. Even though they're around other gay pictures. Families, right, they. We. They are submerged in all different walks of life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And we kiss in front of them. We're affectionate.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Their school celebrates pride. They get out of the car with little rainbow shirts and. But they don't know what gay is. And we were just like, oh, my God. Because at 53, I feel like I'm through coming out. You know, I feel like my hair cut. One last thing speaks for itself. But there I was, coming out to my children after living with them for seven years. And so within that, I would love to write more about that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's definitely a show in that.

[Tig Notaro]

And then the other is at my stepfather's funeral, my brother fell into the grave, so. That was your brother? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Fell into the grave.

[Tig Notaro]

I had. My brother and I were talking to the priest and the priest, and it was outdoor. We're not in the church. We're in the cemetery. And he was like, so who? He said, it's very casual when there's any sort of speeches at the graveside, and so however you want to do it. And my brother said, oh, well, I'm just going to say just a few things. And I had written out, you know, like, five pages that I wanted to say. So the priest said, okay, will you go and do a few minutes? And then, Tig, you go, and then I'll go up after. And my brother walks up, and they had the green Astroturf over the hole.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And somebody forgot to put plywood over it. And my brother fell into the grave. And my whole family just, like, jumps like, Jesus.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, shit.

[Tig Notaro]

Like, just like, oh, my God. And he's like. Because the turf was there, it, like, kind of broke his fall. And so he was slowly, like, going down. And then it was like, Night of the Living Dead while he's, like, crawling, falling out of the grave in his suit, covered in mud and dirt. And I immediately was thinking, oh, my God, this must happen all the time. And then a second later, I was like, of course this doesn't happen all the time. There's no way everyone's falling in graves. And then I thought, okay, well, now I have a story to tell.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you help bail him out?

[Tig Notaro]

No. Anybody that came out, he was like, I got it. I'm okay. You know, it was so embarrassing and horrifying. And, you know, later that night, as he was going to bed, we were at my cousin's house, this was in Mississippi. And he was like, hey, Jimmy, do you have any Advil? And Stephanie and I looked at each other like, oh, yeah, I bet. I bet he's in pain.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so strange because the old man in the pool, in a lot of ways, breaks apart death and how we treat. We treat the bodies and embalming and all this kind of stuff. And it's like. It is a very strange thing that we even do the grave stone and the grave box and all this stuff.

[Tig Notaro]

I used to panic over this as a child. When I would be in a plane and looking at the earth, I'd be like, this is going to be filled with graveyards one day. The whole planet is going to be full of graveyards, which is not going to happen, because the planet will not. The planet will survive. We won't. But anyway, to go back to the.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thing about telling your son that you're gay.

[Tig Notaro]

Sons. Both of them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, it was at the same time.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. They were both in the basketball Dropping them off at school.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

To go back to the.

[Tig Notaro]

Telling your son, coming out to my children.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. When you came out to your children. It's interesting because that's a lot of what I'm taking apart in my hour right now on the road is like, how do we teach our daughter about sex and about drugs? And, you know, the expanse of what you have to convey is so wide. And it's like, well, what's the right order of the things? And I find myself confounded by it.

[Tig Notaro]

I am absolutely confounded by the sex talk because. And I've talked about this on stage. I don't really. I haven't worked it through, but to me, it is psychotic that children would be in their bedroom playing with, like, action figures and cars and being like, meanwhile, in the other part of the house, you have decided today's the day to come in, knock on the door, and tell them that a penis goes into a vagina. And children. Or there's other ways children are made, but that actual talk of. Of sex and their mouth, I'm sure, agape, horrifying. It's almost abusive. It's like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's abusive.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The truth is abusive sometimes.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Similarly, when I was reading them a story when they were five, Finn interrupted me and said, are you a boy or a girl? I was again stunned. And I said, well, what do you think I am? And he said, I think you're a boy. And I said, no, I'm a girl. And he said, yeah, but you look like a boy. And I was like, yeah, I guess so. And then I went back to reading. I was like, oh, my God. My kids don't know if I'm a boy or girl. Little did I know they didn't know I was gay either, or what gay was.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When are you teaching these kids?

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, what the hell? I do not. I. And meanwhile, I think Stephanie and I are actually doing a really good job.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're not.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay, well, I. It is so confusing, but it's the worst parents. I know, but it is. It's. There's so much assumption.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, of course.

[Tig Notaro]

That you. You assume kids know or they're picking up on. And they might pick up on things, but there are these. And I'm sure people listening to this will be like, come on, I'm gay. My kids know I'm gay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Tig Notaro]

Or my kids know what gay is. Okay, we forgot to sit down and say we're gay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Tig Notaro]

Or talk about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, criticize Tig in the comments.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes, please. You won't be the first.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Foreign support for working it out comes from Mint Mobile. Are you tired of high wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost you more in the long run? Switch to Mint Mobile say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plan's jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all of your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile's for you. Shop [e-mail] perbigs that's mintmobile.com Burbigs upfront payment of $45 for a 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options are available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Working it out is brought to you in part by Stash. Saving and investing can feel impossible, but with Stash, it's not just a reality, it is easy. Stash isn't just an investing app. It is a registered investment advisor that combines automated investing with dependable financial strategies to help you reach your goals faster. They'll provide you with personalized advice on what to invest in based on your goals. Or if you want to sit back and watch your money go to work, you can opt into their award winning expert managed portfolio that picks stocks for you. Stash has helped millions of Americans reach their financial goals and starts at just $3 per month. Don't let your savings sit around. Make it work harder for you. Go to get.stash.com wio to see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures. That's get stash.com wio paid non client endorsement, not representative of all clients and not a guarantee. Investment advisory services offered by Stash Investments LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. Investing involves risk offers subject to TNCs. I have one because I talk a lot about this. Sort of like how do I teach my daughter about this, this and this? Like I was walking down the street and there's a lot of smoke shops here and she looks up at the title of one of them and she just goes dad, what's the good life? And I was like, I don't even know. It's not what I'm doing, you know what I mean? And then I'm like that. I'm trying to say, well, there's drugs, you know, and people take them. And sometimes their brain makes their brain go faster, and sometimes it makes it go slower. And I can't really think of any of the downsides, actually. And I've used them, but I don't. A lot. But sometimes when I was younger. Not your age, but, like three years older than you, anyway, that'll do it, you know, and it's like, you really. Don't you realize. I find that when you have a child, if you have a child, you realize how little, you know, that's been my experience.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, I have an idea for a game show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Tig Notaro]

That has come out of that idea. Because whenever our kids ask a question, whether it's what does this word mean? Or anything, anything, even if it seems so simple, I always. I love this moment. I turn to Stephanie and I just go, yeah, what does that mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, what does that mean?

[Tig Notaro]

And I love to hear her stumble through defining what something is or what it means or, you know, what is religion? Yeah, Stephanie, tell us. What is religion? And so I always picture the game show as somebody having to answer those kind of questions from kids, like adults having to come up with their definition. And it's several different parents that are having to describe what a word is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you have a name for the game?

[Tig Notaro]

No, I don't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a great game.

[Tig Notaro]

I think so. It's so awkward and funny to watch. And it's like an unspoken thing where when a question comes up, Stephanie gets a smirk on her face. Cause she knows. Alternate go. Yeah, let's hear. What is that? Stemani? And it's not because it's necessarily vulgar or uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable because you are having to be like, well, you know how when that kind of moment is so fun to watch her stumble through.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The embarrassment of being a parent is unlike any other embarrassment.

[Tig Notaro]

I feel like, so embarrassing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Here's a. Here's a story that I haven't put really on stage.

[Tig Notaro]

Humiliating.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But it's. But it's. Jenny and I said to Una a few years ago, we were like, what do you want? What would be the most coolest thing that you could do on your birthday? It was her sixth birthday. And she goes, I want you and mom to dress up like clowns. So Jenny and I go like a costume store, and we get full clown makeup, and we get noses and everything. Yeah. And. And. And horns. And. And we wake her up on her birthday, which is a huge mistake. And it was like, it was as though it was a dream. She immediately starts crying. We're dressed up as clowns. Fully as clowns. And, and, and weak. And we were like, we're so sorry. We thought you wanted us to dress up as clowns. And she goes, when I said that, I meant I would walk you around town with you dressed as clowns and everyone would laugh at you.

[Tig Notaro]

Not wake me from my sleep.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Not wake me from my sleep. And then. And that's when I realized that Una wanted to be my manager. She wanted to get 10% on top of 100%.

[Tig Notaro]

That is unbelievable.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it was funny. It was like. But it was. I think the larger theme of it is, like, being. She wanted to be on the inside of the joke.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, it's that thing of, like, being in on the joke versus on the out. Like us dressed as clowns. She's on the outside of the joke.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so embarrassing. Jenny and I are so like, oh, what were we doing? It's just.

[Tig Notaro]

That is so incredible. I'm jealous. I'm jealous.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're just a witch part that you.

[Tig Notaro]

Have that story to tell.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. It's pretty great.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because parenting is just a series of mistakes, and it's just. Which mistakes are they? Because your parents made a series of mistakes and you. You're currently. And I'm currently making a series of mistakes. And just which ones are they?

[Tig Notaro]

Yep. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And honestly, I mean, I don't know, we probably won't know for 10, 20 years.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, I know. I always say, like, you know, people, I did my. One of my HBO specials without a shirt on for half of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, of course.

[Tig Notaro]

And people are, you know, they'll come up and be like, oh, you know, you're badass or you're brave or whatever. And I, after having kids, I think, are they going to be excited about that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Tig Notaro]

Are they going to think that's cool or are they going to be like, why'd you take your shirt off? You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, that's not like, my biggest concern, but I just do think about things I've done or said or, you know, who knows how they'll interpret things or how they'll feel.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. And even, like, I have it with my dad, you know, I talk a lot in my new show about my relationship with my dad and how, how, you know, as I got when I was a kid, I felt a distance from my dad because he would shout and, you know, he was in and out. He wasn't Around a lot. My mom was much more present. And then when I got out of college, really, all through my 20s, we had really stark political differences, and it became increasingly tense.

[Tig Notaro]

You and your father or your parents?

[Mike Birbiglia]

My dad, yeah. Not my mom, but my dad. And it. And it's one of these things where sometimes I think, like, it's. It is somewhat inevitable that, like, I. Like my dad is, you know, grew up in 1940, was born in 1940. We're definitely not the same person. He, you know, he went to medical school and did a residency on an Air Force base in Texas. Like, we don't have the same life experience. It's just not.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The same. And it's. And if. Of course, I say this in the Pete Holmes episode, but I. Of this podcast. But. But I say it for my whole life, and it's currently in the show, I go. For my whole life, I wanted to be my dad. And then at a certain point, I realized I wanted him to be me.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that's. That was a. That was something I'm coming. Coming to grips with now.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because there's a series of years where I feel like that was my intent, but I didn't realize it.

[Tig Notaro]

That's interesting. Like, the opposite of that. I had a conversation with my stepfather when we were leaving after we had buried my mother in Mississippi. We were driving off, and he was a very stoic person and wasn't very supportive of my career, and I was a failure dropout, and he just didn't. He didn't understand at all. And. And when we drove away from my mother's funeral, he was so emotional and he was crying. I had never seen him cry before, and he was apologizing for. He had told me also that I had. That I was wasting my time and intelligence with my career and I should go to business school and all of this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God. I was going to tell you that. To go to business school.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Thank you. And. And I was, of course, devastated because I had thought he supported the idea of what I was doing because I had found a loophole in life, and I was telling jokes and I was doing better than most people that I grew up with that had gone to college. But, no, in his mind, it should be a particular way. And so he was crying and apologizing as we left Mississippi, and he said he shouldn't have said what he said to me, and he wished that he had been more taken, more of an interest. And I was like. I was just stunned, and I couldn't believe the person that he was and who raised me was actually capable of thinking the degree that he did. And what he said to me was, you know, I was projecting what I thought a person should do in life. I was putting importance on things that he like. The path in life that you should go on. I was putting that on you. And I'm sorry. And he said, and I'm realizing now that it's not the child's responsibility to teach the parent who they are. It's the parents responsibility to learn who their child is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's beautiful.

[Tig Notaro]

And he said, and I didn't do that. And I'm so sorry. And this is through.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's so beautiful.

[Tig Notaro]

So beautiful. So beautiful. And I can't believe that was in that person. And I was like, how is my mother not alive to see this? Because she supported who I was. She thought I was cool. She loved that I was, like, driving around telling jokes in South Dakota and, you know, living my dream.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like that should be in the show. Next show.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's just a beautiful.

[Tig Notaro]

It's so beautiful. And it's so much the lesson I want to learn in. In being a parent. When I'm looking at Max and Finn not putting on them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

What I want or hope. I'm trying to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Not learning who they are.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. To like really learn. Who are you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And that. That's been life changing for me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's not gonna get any better than that. So we're gonna end now.

[Tig Notaro]

All right. Sorry to bother you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In the end of every episode, we do working it out for cause. And if there's a nonprofit that you like to support, we will contribute to them. We'll link to them in the show notes.

[Tig Notaro]

Wonderful.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is there someone. Is there a group you can think of?

[Tig Notaro]

Yes. World Resources Institute. Because they are. They're an environmental charity. And I just want to say that I, of course, think political causes and social causes, all of that, everything is so important. But we must handle environmental issues. Otherwise other issues are not going to matter if the planet is gone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In the comments, I think it's important that people point out to Tig that she's really overlooking certain political causes for the sake of this very egocentric environmental cause.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm open to all complaints and comments.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That being said, we will contribute to them. I appreciate that in the show notes. Take the. You're a beautiful person.

[Tig Notaro]

And I you, sir.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I am so thrilled that we're friends and I appreciate you being here.

[Tig Notaro]

I love being friends with you. I am inspired by you. And thank you for having me on the show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it out because it's not done. We're working it out because there's no that's going to do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Tig on Instagram. It's a long walk for this one. The handle is hereal fluffnotaro that's right. Tig Notaro is at therealfluffnotaro. Find Tig's live tour [e-mail] Listen to her podcast Handsome. You can also watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel, ikeberbiglia. Make sure you subscribe because we're posting more and more videos. Check out birbigli.com to sign up for the mailing list. The producers of Working it out are myself, along with Peter Salamone, Joseph Birbiglia and Mabel Lewis associate producer Gary Simons Sound mix by Ben Cruz supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonoff and Bleachers for their music, of course, my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein and our daughter Oona, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, even tell your kids. Your kids might be confused. It is a grown up podcast after all. Your kids might say, well what? What is the Working It Out Podcast? And you just have to be like, we're just about to drop you off at camp. I don't know if there's enough time to explain this, but it's an iconic podcast. It's just a longer conversation. Thanks for listening everybody. We'll see you next time.