Jenny Slate: Unafraid of Sadness

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia's Working It Out

Episode: Jenny Slate: Unafraid of Sadness

Release Date: May 25, 2026
Guests: Jenny Slate
Host: Mike Birbiglia

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Overview

In this introspective and comedic episode, Mike Birbiglia sits down with actress, comedian, and writer Jenny Slate to "work out" new material and discuss the creative process, the intersection of comedy and vulnerability, career detours, and the enduring presence of both sadness and joy in their work. Together, they also reflect on the challenges and rewards of authenticity in performance, the peculiarities of social media, and the emotional undercurrents of their comedic inspirations.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Embracing Sadness in Comedy

[00:00, 30:32]

• Mike and Jenny open by talking about Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, highlighting its humor and its courage in exploring sadness.
• Jenny admits she spent many years struggling with underlying sadness, despite being sociable and fun-loving.
  • Quote [00:08] Jenny Slate: “There is something about being sad, essentially, like not being acceptable, just like sort of baseline sorrow. I agree that that makes me feel scared. And I went through a lot of years of like, why am I always...so sad?”
• Jenny now sees the importance of integrating sadness into her work, finding it lonelier to leave that side unaddressed.

The Comedy Journey: Humility, Performing for Small Crowds, and Big Terrific

[03:25, 05:12]

• They reminisce about performing for tiny audiences in their early careers at venues like Rafifi, celebrating the support and joy even in humbling circumstances.
  • Quote [05:12] Jenny Slate: “That deeply humbling, like, whoa, I really must really want to do this because I’m performing for 11 people...that’s like in me now.”
• Such experiences were foundational, building “character and passion," and remain integral to their outlook as performers.

Improv and the Creative Process

[07:22, 09:12]

• Jenny credits her improv background for her spontaneous, unpredictable performance style.
  • Quote [08:18] Jenny Slate: “My stand-up...is unplanned. It is. I mean, I follow a bullet point system...then I shuffle things around as I’m going. Nothing is ever written because I find that very boring.”
• Both discuss their process of writing: Jenny has folders called “Scraps” and “Fragments and Problems”; Mike writes and then improvises onstage.
• Jenny delves into personal storytelling — that authentic, unscripted telling resonates most with audiences.

Navigating Setbacks: SNL and Stage Fright

[13:53, 17:11]

• After being fired from SNL, Jenny developed severe stage fright—a shift from her earlier “fun, uncomfortable excitement” performing live.
• Support from peers (Nick Kroll, Comedy Central, Kroll Show) and even hypnotism helped Jenny get back on stage, though nerves linger.
  • Quote [14:35] Jenny Slate: “It was like a weird, like, swollen but collapsed ego or something...it just was like the worst situation.”
• Mike reinforces that her “failure” at SNL ultimately set her on a path to greater creative freedom, including signature roles in Obvious Child and Marcel the Shell.

The Realities of Artistic Success and ‘Ascension’

[22:19, 27:23]

• They dig into perceptions of success and the myth of “making it” versus ongoing opportunities and the desire to keep proving oneself.
  • Quote [25:01] Jenny Slate: “I feel like I still have to prove myself. And that maybe is a good thing and might be only in my head.”
• Mike speaks to the illusion of ascension in show business and how personal fulfillment often becomes more about the work than the status or fame.

The Indie-to-Mainstream Journey: Marcel the Shell

[26:01, 39:42]

• Jenny and Mike reflect on how Marcel the Shell evolved from “alt-comedy” short to an acclaimed mainstream film.
  • Quote [26:19] Mike Birbiglia: “You did...the thing where people go, ‘how come I can’t take my indie art...and make that the thing?’ And you did that.”
• Jenny shares how deeply personal the Marcel film was, including the challenges of recording it while navigating divorce from co-creator Dean Fleischer Camp.
  • Quote [38:07] Jenny Slate: “We were recording in the house that we used to live in...It was a really weird thing that we did...but it allowed us to be the people who...still ask, ‘do you want to have lunch?’”

Wrestling with Social Media

[21:46, 63:36]

• Jenny discloses she quit social media years ago, comparing its negative psychological pull to “the Gollum ring.” She shares a prospective bit about social media’s loss of mystique and boundaries.
  • Quote [63:56] Jenny Slate: “It just made me feel bad. In all the ways that everybody feels bad, you’re not doing a good enough job...I felt the pull of it, it felt like the ring, the Gollum ring.”

Vulnerability, Mentors, and Sources of Inspiration

[32:07, 36:21]

• Both name comedic influences who blended silliness and sorrow: Pee Wee Herman, Peter Sellers, Chaplin, Gilda Radner, and Harpo Marx.
  • Quote [32:35] Jenny Slate: “There’s so much sorrow in there. There’s so much sorrow...”
• Jenny explains that in both life and character, she seeks a balance between connection and autonomy, always chasing “life’s small beauties.”

Reflection on Parenting and Sharing Family on Stage

[28:33, 29:26]

• Both reflect on how their evolving family lives (children’s ages and privacy) shape what they can discuss onstage.
  • Quote [28:48] Jenny Slate: “What I talk about on stage needs to be thoughtfully sorted… I don’t want to talk about [my daughter]. She genuinely can’t say yes or no about it and I don’t think that’s fair.”

Graduation Speech for One Student

[42:22, 44:43]

• Jenny recounts giving a graduation speech to a single student in Cuddyhunk, highlighting the importance of helping young people “figure out what your receptors are for feeling what you like about life.”
  • Quote [44:38] Jenny Slate: “Figure out what your receptors are...Because actually, that’s huge...Once I did, my life got a lot easier.”

Day-to-Day Joys and Overheards

[49:23, 51:16]

• Jenny shares a delightfully mundane experience overhearing two elderly women in a diner, drawing inspiration from life’s small, odd, or beautiful moments.

Lightning Round: Jealousy, Lying, and Daydreams

[52:33, 56:13]

• Jenny admits to being “jealous of Tilda Swinton” for seemingly having figured it out and recalls faking appendicitis as a child (inspired by Roald Dahl) and regretting the consequences.
• She describes a recurring daydream of being cast in a movie where she surprises everyone by singing beautifully.

Working Out Material

[59:48, 65:38]

• Jenny and Mike “work out” new joke premises—including social media etiquette, aging, and existential lists of things you’ll never do.
  • Quote [65:38] Mike Birbiglia: “You have a superpower...You’re an amazing actor and amazing improviser. If you live everything you’re saying...it’s gonna pop hard.”
• Mike encourages Jenny to lean harder into her unique performance quirks; Jenny credits Mike with rekindling her interest in performing stand-up.

Giving Back: Cause of Choice

[71:10]

• Jenny chooses public radio (NPR and various local affiliates) as her charity, expressing strong support for public media and journalism.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [00:08] Jenny Slate: “There is something about being sad, essentially, like not being acceptable, just like sort of baseline sorrow.”
• [05:12] Jenny Slate: “I really must want to do this...because I’m performing for 11 people.”
• [08:18] Jenny Slate: “My stand-up...is unplanned. Nothing is ever written because I find that very boring.”
• [14:35] Jenny Slate: “It was like a weird, like, swollen but collapsed ego or something...it just was like the worst situation.”
• [26:19] Mike Birbiglia: “You did...the thing where people go, ‘how come I can’t take my indie art...and make that the thing?’ And you did that.”
• [44:38] Jenny Slate: “Figure out what your receptors are...That’s huge. Once I did, my life got a lot easier.”
• [63:56] Jenny Slate: “It just made me feel bad. In all the ways that everybody feels bad...I felt the pull of it, it felt like the ring, the Gollum ring.”

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Important Timestamps

• Marcel & Sadness: [00:00] – [00:52], [30:32] – [32:07]
• Early Comedy Career/Big Terrific: [03:25] – [05:12]
• Improv, Writing Process: [07:22] – [09:13]
• SNL Firing/Stage Fright: [13:53] – [17:11]
• Artistic Success/Auditions: [22:19] – [27:23]
• Indie-to-Mainstream/Marcel Process: [26:01] – [39:42]
• Social Media & Mystique: [21:46], [63:01] – [64:25]
• Graduation Speech & Life Lessons: [42:22] – [44:43]
• Overheard Diner Story: [49:23] – [51:16]
• Lightning Round: [52:33] – [56:13]
• Working Out Jokes/Encouragement: [59:48] – [65:38]
• Charity/NPR Discussion: [71:10] – [72:13]

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Conclusion

This episode delivers an engaging, honest, and often hilarious look at Jenny Slate’s creative process, her relationship to sadness, the joys and pitfalls of authentic artistry, and the ways in which comedians contend with both public perception and private doubts. It is a must-listen for fans of stand-up, those navigating creative careers, and anyone interested in how humor can coexist with vulnerability.

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For more: Check out Jenny Slate’s podcast "I Need You Guys," her special Seasoned Professional, and consider supporting public radio at NPR.

Transcript

[Mike Birbiglia]

With Marcella's Shell. I was rewatching it this morning and what stuck out to me is like, it's so funny. And then it's like unafraid of being sad.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm glad you think that. Cause I guess that's like I don't want to do that kind of like grad school short story about something really upsetting so that the story can be serious and good. But like there is something about being sad essentially like not being acceptable, just like sort of baseline sorrow. I agree that that makes me feel scared. And I went through a lot of years of like, why am I always as a friendly person who likes to have fun and like, likes romance and chilling out, why am I so sad? Yeah, like so sad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And it just felt like if I couldn't try to talk about that or get into it a bit, it really was as if I was like lonely for that part of myself that couldn't be included.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're working it out. Cause it's not done. We're working it out. That is the voice of the great Jenny Slate. This is one of our favorite episodes. This was originally aired last year and and if you are a comedy fan, you know Jenny Slate, she does stand up comedy. She is an actress, she is a writer. Her latest comedy special is called Seasoned Professional. It's on Amazon Prime. You may have seen her starring in the film Obvious Child which I love of course, Marcel the Shell with Shoes on which she co wrote and stars in. We talk a lot about that, that film today. That one really hit me hard. We talk about the unique way that the Marcel the Shell film was made. Jenny is someone who I've wanted to have on this show for a while. So I was thrilled that we made it work. She actually baked banana bread for me and our producers when we recorded this, which was lovely by the way. Thanks to everybody who has been text messaging for alerts on my tour. You can just text bur bigs to 917-444-7150 to be the first to know about my upcoming shows. I'm probably going to do a pop up show at a little spot in Boston next week. And so if you got your 617 or 508 or whatever other area code you have there, I will text you about sort of a new material show. I'm doing a Boston. Anyway, sign up for that and enjoy this conversation with Jenny Slate. We talk about sadness in relation to comedy. Jenny of course hosts her own podcast with Max Silvestri and Gabe Liedman. It's called I need you guys. And you can listen to it every Thursday on the SiriusXM app or wherever you get your podcasts. Jenny used to do a live show with Max and Gabe called the Big Terrific, which I did a bunch of times. It was awesome. We talk about that and so much more. Enjoy my conversation with the great Jenny Slate. Let's make more. It's funny, you have this great moment in your special where you go. And this is the part of the special where my mom turns it off. Yeah, Yeah, I feel like that about my entire. Every special I have.

[Jenny Slate]

Do your parents watch your work?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Not really.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, same.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, same.

[Jenny Slate]

I mean, they'll watch it if I'm like, can you watch that? But like, I'm. I don't do that. I don't really ask them to, but they have. I think they've watched at least my second special and probably my first. Cause they were in it. I would imagine they were curious.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it's interesting. Like it is an interesting thing. And also like, your dad is a poet, so it's like, you know, in some ways it's not that dissimilar from even what you do. Poetry.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. I wonder like, if that's why sometimes I'm like, is there something about what I do that's too close to. I mean, I wouldn't call my act poetry. No, I would though, in any way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know why you wouldn't. Because you don't want to. Self serving and pretentious. But I think there's a lot of poetry to what you do.

[Jenny Slate]

That's nice of you to say. Yeah, I mean, I think first I was like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And sounds.

[Jenny Slate]

And sounds. Lots of like. I think first I was just talking to Gabe Liedman and Max Silvestri about this yesterday because we were like, why did Gabe's parents, they like always drove from Philly to see us at Rafifi.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's sweet. And that's when you and I met.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes, exactly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A zillion years ago.

[Jenny Slate]

And you know what I mean, what that was like was like you might have 14 people in the audience and that was fine.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I performed on your show. There was definitely nights where there's 14 people.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh yeah, it fucking sucked. I mean, we didn't suck.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It didn't suck though, because it was. You guys were always. And I'm sure the podcast will be like this. You guys were always so supportive and fun and you made the show feel, no matter what, like it was called Big Terrific and it was like, it was just joyous it was.

[Jenny Slate]

And it. It was always. But that. That deeply humbling, like, whoa, this is. I really, must really want to do this because I'm performing for 11 people. Thing is, that's, like in my. In me now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, it's. I'll just never forget what that feels like. And, like, performing for six people, but, like, on the nights where there would only be, like, maybe three, and then you have to be like, you know what, guys? We're gonna call it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And then I would be flooded with relief that I didn't have to do the show, and then flooded with shame that it happened that way. Yeah, yeah, that's a real one, two punch right in the nads.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's nothing worse than calling off a show that you convinced those people to

[Jenny Slate]

show up, those three.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're like, no, no, it's gonna be good. We have a great lineup. They believed Eugene Mirman's popping in. This is happening. This is happening. And then you go, actually, we're not having the show.

[Jenny Slate]

And then you have to say that to Eugene, by the way.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Jenny Slate]

It's not even. It's like. And actually, I am gonna have to tell, you know, John Glazer and John Benjamin, who I am so obsessed with that I can't even talk to them or look at their faces that we actually do. Didn't get enough people to come here to watch them.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so pride swallowing.

[Jenny Slate]

Do a favor for me. Yeah, it's like, you eat shit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it's.

[Jenny Slate]

It's good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's good for us.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, no, it's some pride swallowing or whatever is actually just bad for a person's self esteem.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, like, I fucking hate tough love, but some things, honestly, I mean, not to sound like a hybrid between, like, the greatest generation.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's how you read it for sure.

[Jenny Slate]

Geriatric, Millennial. But it's like some challenges, some humblings that are not, you know, oppressive humblings, but, like, it's just, hey, man, you're actually. You're just like a tiny speck. And that's okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Are very. Character building and passion building and appetite building.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You did improv with Gabe in college, right?

[Jenny Slate]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And Max or No?

[Jenny Slate]

No, Max didn't go to college with us. We met him when we were 22.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you did it with Gabe, did you. You started the group?

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, well, it was like. It was like something else had a different name. There were two groups. One was called Six Milks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Six Milks?

[Jenny Slate]

I don't know. Six? Yeah, Six Milks. And then the other one that Gabe and I were in was called Two Left Feet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Two Left Feet, Sure.

[Jenny Slate]

I was like, okay, got it. You guys are joking around. But anyway, we combined the two groups, created a new group which was called Fruit Ponch. Again, why do college students name their stuff so Salt Punch? Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I can see it in your work. Like, I can see the improv. I can see the improv.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like you have an improvisational spirit to your standup. Your stand up feels unpredictable.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Or unplanned is unplanned. It is. I mean, I follow a. Like a bullet point system. Like, what you have here behind you, that's what it looks like on a page before I go up. And then I, like, shuffle things around as I'm going. And nothing is ever, like, written because I find that to be very boring.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I can't. I can't do it. I have some stuff I say, you know, like, too, like a turn of phrase.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

But everything else, it's like, who does she want to be tonight?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love your standup, though, because it's. It does feel. It feels unrehearsed and it feels like. It doesn't feel like anyone else.

[Jenny Slate]

That's a nice thing to say. I feel the same way about you. Geez, thanks. How much writing do you do?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I write a lot.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So much of it's just junk.

[Jenny Slate]

Well, for all of us.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah, of course.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, I mean, you gotta. You have to, like. I just feel like you kind of gotta, like, blow out the pipes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Blow out the pipes.

[Jenny Slate]

Get all the gunk out of the pipes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, write all the bad stuff and the good stuff. Just, like, keep writing it down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Is my deal. But I have a folder called Scraps. Scraps, like, on my computer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I respect that so much. Scraps.

[Jenny Slate]

There's also one called. I think it's called Fragments and Problems.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's good.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. And even in my first special, which was with Netflix, they were like, can you write out what you'll do? And I was like, no, I can't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, it'll ruin it. It'll make me feel like I hate it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I just have never once written anything out. Everything just has a title, like Dad's Nightgown.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I have a similar thing, which is I'll write out the bit and then I will go up on stage and do my best version of it.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

From memory.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And it usually doesn't. It's not what I wrote verbatim.

[Jenny Slate]

But isn't that Kind of like. I mean, not that I've ever been on a date that is like this, but it's how I imagine dating to be. Or just like, dinner party, let's say. This is like, the metaphor that I've used is like, you know, your memories, like. And you probably know. Not in a sociopathic way, but you probably know, like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, I can't. Oh, I can't wait to tell you the story.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, the other day I was telling Rachel Antonoff and Jack Antonoff, brother, sister, who I call. My husband calls them the cousins.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The cousins.

[Jenny Slate]

My cousins. We're very Amish. I told them this story about when I was on a summer program and I had a crush on a boy. And I was, like, pretty sure that we were making eye contact across the cafeteria. And. And at the time, Romeo and Juliet had come out, like, with Leonardo DiCaprio. And I was obsessed with him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Fishbowl scene, et cetera.

[Jenny Slate]

Just the shank scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, big time. And I loved that movie and whatever. And, like, he just. It was like a big point of my, like, raging horniness, you know? And I was like, this boy looks like him, and he is straight up looking at me. And I had like. Recently, I was 16. I'd gotten my braces off. I'd just gotten my period. I had a bra. It was like a big deal for me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Big moment.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, huge. And I started hanging out with him and a bunch of people in a group. I had a nickname, which was Duty, which is not a good nickname, but I thought it was cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you were ready to go?

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I'm just telling the story. But I'm telling the story in surface of trying to say something else, unfortunately. But anyway, I was like, this guy likes me. I had never kissed a boy before. I heard him and another. A couple of boys in the room below. I was on the balcony above, and they were on the balcony below, and they didn't know I was up there. And someone was like, yeah, we're gonna go out and da, da, da, da, and Doody's gonna come with us. And I was like, oh, my God. And he goes, who's duty? And I was like, oh, man, he doesn't even know my nickname. And then they're like, you know, Jenny? And he's like, who's Jenny? And I was like, what? This fucking guy? Like, he's definitely been staring at me like it doesn' know my name.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Brutal.

[Jenny Slate]

And then one of the other boys goes, you know, she's that girl that looks like a chicken. And then he goes, oh, no, no, no, no. I know what you mean. She's that girl that looks like a lizard. And then they were like, no, she looks like a chicken. And then it was like, chicken, lizard. Chicken, lizard. And it was like. Like, it just hurt. It hurt so badly. And it was like, oh. Like, huh? Like, I walk around being like, everyone thinks I'm ugly, but then there's, like, this other part of me that's like, you're not ugly. You just think that. Cause people are mean to you at school.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

But them, like, say it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Confirmation.

[Jenny Slate]

And it was like we were in another country. Yeah. It was like, this is like, we're in England. And they also think it. So I might be. I need a little more time to cook this thing. But anyway, that story, for example, it's like, you know your stories, right. You know, why would you write them down?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. You can remember that.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. You just tell them to the person and try to feed their joy. That might be happening.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I always have to remind myself of that because I write out jokes, and then I have to remind myself, like, just do it in my own words.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because that's what the audience craves.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You just want to hear the story.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

My director always says that to me. Like, I'll get nervous before a show and I'll go, like, just tell the story.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, right. All it is is just telling the story.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. But there's a lot to get past, to be the version of yourself that can do that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah. You know, to a hypnotist.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is that early? Like, was that, like, when I first met you kind of thing?

[Jenny Slate]

No, I had. No. I used to have stage, like. Like, kind of like. Like, fun, uncomfortable excitement. Like, all through Rafifi, through being at Soundfix or Cameo, like, when we were in Williamsburg. And then I just got stage fright when I got fired from snl, like, straight up, it, like, it, like, me up a little bit. And I. Then I moved to LA and, like. And there were three years also where, like, I did this thing where every, you know, general meeting I would go on, I felt like I had to be like, I got fired, you know, like, even though nobody cared.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

It was like a weird, like, swollen but collapsed ego or something, you know, it just was like the worst situation, like, fucking sucked. And then. But Nick Kroll was like, I'm doing a show on Comedy Central, which became Kroll Show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Kroll Show. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And he, like, gave me my first Job after being fired, which meant so much to me because I really admired him so much, you know, continual admiration forever. But I still had the stage fright. And I believe Nick was going to the hypnotist for, like, something else. Maybe smoking. I can't speak for him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And let's just say smoking.

[Jenny Slate]

Maybe smoking. I think Aziz went to the same person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay.

[Jenny Slate]

There were all these people going there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I gotta hit that hypnotist.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm not sure how come I don't think it worked. It sounds like it worked, like, maybe enough.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nick doesn't smoke anymore, and you get on stage.

[Jenny Slate]

It did help to get me back on stage and to get rid of a lot of the kind of undead at the door, you know, every time we watched the Last of Us and the. What are they called? The Clickers. The Clickers, yeah. Like, around, like, that's what it feels like to have stage fright.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Jenny Slate]

They're like. Like, they're right there and they're like. That's what it feels like to me. And I still have it really badly to the point where, like, I haven't actually done Stand up in a really long time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So you still have it?

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, what's crazy is I just sang to my wife downstairs. I was like. I was like, jenny Slade's coming over, doing the podcast. And she goes, do you remember that? Right after she got fired from snl, we ran into her at something, and she was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I fucked up so badly.

[Jenny Slate]

That sounds like something I'd say.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And we were both like, you're gonna be great. This is gonna be great. And then notably, notably, you went on to have, like, this unbelievable career that I would say, arguably, between Marcel the Shell and Obvious Child. Like, arguably, you might not have had time for. If you were an SNL for fucking nine years or whatever, for sure.

[Jenny Slate]

No, no, it's better. The end result is better. The life that I've had is really good for me. I don't think there's, like. It's weird to fail at something that you get. You get there and you're like, I thought I was good at this, what this is, but I didn't even get what it was. I thought it would be like my college improv group.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

And then it's like this whole system, and it's a TV show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And there are.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's cue cards.

[Jenny Slate]

There's cue cards, which obviously I wasn't good at. And there's like politics, but it's also social. And it was really confusing to me. Cause everyone was so nice, like, in my cast, but it was like, huh, this is a weird fit.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And like, I'm going down. But it. It's different than, let's say, having a soulmate and it not working out, like, where you're like, I genuinely don't get that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

We were meant to be. Like, the second I walked in there, I was like, this isn't what I thought.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Because you have. I mean, I always have thought that about that show. I've always been a fan of the show, but I've thought, like, I would never have fit in in the cast or as a writer because there's so many moving parts. And you have to, like. Like you're saying, like, it's regimented, and you have to hit your mark in, like, ten different metaphoric ways.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I feel like from my comedy, that would feel stifling. Like, I feel like it would take away from the spontaneity.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Precisely that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, I need. And it sounds like you. That you need. I mean, even, like, you cursing is hilarious because it'. Like, it's actually kind of a great actor's impulse.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, my God, it is. Ugh. In a way, it's like, it's so me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, totally.

[Jenny Slate]

To make such an embarrassing mistake. And, like, I hate getting in trouble.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I would never. I don't, like, make moves, you know, I'm not, like, I'm certainly not a believer in, like, all press is good press. Like, I'm not interested in infamy. Certainly not at that point. I like getting as. You know, like, I was really feeling good about getting on the show. There no need to zhuzh it up with just eating shit right away. I don't know. But also. Yeah. It is such a weird in the way that it's very me that that happened. It's also so outrageous and so not me. Because I like to try to get things right on a larger scale that I don't really remember it happening at all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And it was so scary and embarrassing that the only thing I remember at the end is, like, Seth hugging me and that. I thought that was so nice. And Andy Samberg, like, being really nice to me, but then kind of being like, wait, is this, like, a big deal? Yeah, you know? Cause I had just. I literally had walked out of Williamsburg. I wasn't, like, a UCB person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

I had no. Like, I was obsessed with SNL in the way that probably Like, Adam Sandler was growing up or something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

But I didn't do any of the stuff to get there that most people did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

I was, like, a major rando.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

And then I fucked up. So that's, like, crazy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, that is crazy. But then it ended up being going so well for you.

[Jenny Slate]

Well, this is what my astrology says.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you go to an astrologer or you just read your astrology?

[Jenny Slate]

I read it. I listen to it every week. I have an app, the Chani app, which I very much love. I'm not a person that won't sign a contract when Mercury's in retrograde. I'm not super strict about it, but I do like it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Even though people did that.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, yeah, they definitely do. I mean, I'm not gonna be like, can we sign this contract when it's Mercury in retrograde?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

But if it is in retrograde and it's the only time to sign, it's

[Mike Birbiglia]

like, what are we gonna do?

[Jenny Slate]

I'm fucking do this right now. I'm not signing a lot of stuff, Doc. You sign. But anyway, my astrology says every great epiphany, great success, big love, something like that is sort of twinned with a door that closes or a darker doorway. Yeah. So maybe that's happening to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I mean, I think that's true. Well, but I mean, like, just in general for everyone. You have one of those quintessential careers, though, where people go, like, I want to have a Jenny Slate career.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, they go, did you think that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Can I ask you something? And you don't. I mean, it's your podcast. You can cut it out. Because I. I think of you as someone that's, like, you're really successful. You have your, like. Like, you're like, Broadway success, too. And they're always, like, pictures of, like. I actually don't know if I've seen this, but I imagine it's like Tom Hanks with you backstage at your show. He came up with a. Oh, wow. And also, I have not used social media in, like, over three years. Oh. And my assistant will post for things. I ask her to post for me, but I've made, like, a concerted effort to just. I don't even peek in to not look. Oh, wow, you're done.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Good for you.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. I was like, oh, this is drugs. It makes me feel bad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm out. But, like, do you. Do you ever feel like you're in the process of, you know, trying to, like, ascend or building or, you know, like, you're not fully in the final zone you wish you would be in. And again, that is a question that maybe is too embarrassing to answer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, no, I don't think it's embarrassing. I'm good with it. It's just so big of a question. I'm trying to break it apart. Like, I think. I don't. I don't think there's any more ascension.

[Jenny Slate]

What do you mean? Like, you're calling it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think I'm calling it.

[Jenny Slate]

You don't have to tell Eugene Mirman that we're not doing this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

[Jenny Slate]

Only three people came to your career.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Exactly. Three people showed up to my career. We're going home. No, no, it's. You know what it is? Like, I feel like what happened was I started out and I was like, I want to be up there and ascend to whatever that is. And then I feel like I was high enough to see what that looks like for the people living it.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then I was, like, doing my own stuff artistically at the same time and going, oh, I like this.

[Jenny Slate]

So you're kind of talking about fame.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh. And I was like, you're talking about life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Life, ascendancy.

[Jenny Slate]

I think what I was talking about was opportunity.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Like. Like, I don't. I don't feel like when you're like, oh, you had this career. People say they want a Jenny Slate career, and I'm like, I audition, you know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, I would love to be, as

[Mike Birbiglia]

opposed to being offered, like, the leads in movies and stuff.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. And actually, I actually really like auditioning, and I sometimes, like, will be like, actually, can I. Let's just make sure you want this, you know, because it's. I don't like that feeling.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You just announced that you're in a movie yesterday.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you audition for that?

[Jenny Slate]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. Okay.

[Jenny Slate]

But when I got there, I was

[Mike Birbiglia]

like, that's so fast, Jenny Slayer.

[Jenny Slate]

Are you sure Chris Pine wants to be present? You know, like, I was like, oh, my God. You know, like. And then I had to, like, ask him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What?

[Jenny Slate]

Well, I don't. Look, it's not the best way to be. I'm not. I don't like how I am.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's not funny.

[Jenny Slate]

But it's like, you're so. No, I didn't have to audition for that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you call him?

[Jenny Slate]

Did what? Did you call him, like, today?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No. No. To ask him whether he wanted you to. That's so funny.

[Jenny Slate]

I mean. Yeah. And so you were.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Hey, are you good? With this me being in a romantic comedy with you kind of thing.

[Jenny Slate]

It is not a romantic comedy. And if that's what you think it is, you're gonna be a little bit sad to see the changes. But, no, I think I more. It was, like, part of a more unfolding conversation.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Where it was like, well, you know, I don't know. It's like, revealing your insecurities totally. And kind of having to check. But it's not like a fishing. It's more like. I think for me, in terms of the ascent or whatever, it's like, I would just. I feel like I still have to, like, prove myself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Jenny Slate]

And that maybe is a good thing and might be only in my head, but, like, I think in a time when I mostly function as an actor, I guess, and it doesn't feel like it's the easiest time in the industry. It's like, I think my goal is to be at a place where it just doesn't seem, like, so hard.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

But maybe I'm making it hard on myself. But also. I don't think so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But I think the thing that I'm speaking to is like, well, obviously, first of all, you and Obvious Child is a great example of you playing a character, but it's in some ways a variation on the type of comedy you do. And you really, like, owned it in this way that it's kind of an iconic film. Like, people are like, that's, you know, one of the. One of those great, great indie films. And then the other one is Marcel the Shell with Shoes on, like, is a great example of, like.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so personal.

[Jenny Slate]

It's so personal. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, you and Dean created a thing that is, like, really, like, alt comedy, and then it became, like, a mainstream movie.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So in some ways, like, that's what I'm speaking to is like.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did these things where people go, you can do that.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, that's crazy. I think a lot of. A lot of people, especially a lot of artists, even a lot of fields go, like, how come I can't take my indie art thing that I love? And this small group of people, like, love. They're like, that's my thing. And how come I can't take that and make that the thing that I go out with?

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And, like, you did that.

[Jenny Slate]

That's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Moment of silence for that.

[Jenny Slate]

Room tone or room tone. I just. Yes. And I think that's. And it's not that I'm not. I love that movie. And Dean and our work that we did together. But I think also it's like, I really am job to job in a good way. Like, I don't take much from the stuff that happens after the job is over. I like a photo shoot, you know? Like, I think that's, like, fun to get dressed up.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Jenny Slate]

In, like, a big weird dress or something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Jenny Slate]

But once the job is over, I just get hungry again to perform.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

That said, I'm, like, not a workaholic, and I'm very fine making, like, one movie a year. Or like, the year that I made Dying for Sex, which I think is the last time I saw you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, I made two things that year and I was like. Like, I can't work any more than this.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, Like, I'm not a workaholic, but I do want to. After you're done performing and you're a performer and you love it. You're like, when do I go again?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, it's like just being on a water slide. It's like, can I go again? Can I just go again?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Now that you're in New York, I'm gonna just try to convince you to stand up all the time.

[Jenny Slate]

I think I want to do it again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you feel like you could do Big Terrific again, or are you done with it?

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, no, I feel like we could do it again. I feel like now that we have our podcast that, you know, like, my dream is, like, we tour around with that and it kind of is like a new version of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, people would love that.

[Jenny Slate]

God, it would be people. Meaning definitely me. At least one year. You'd love it. I would love it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think everyone would love it.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. And I miss Max and Gabe. They don't live here.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

But I think. Yeah. I mean. And, you know, my daughter's almost five. Like, there is a feeling in me now that what I talk about on stage needs to be thoughtfully sorted.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Not like I'm not gonna say slit or whatever, but it's like, I don't wanna talk about her. I don't wanna. I don't. She genuinely can't say yes or no about it, and I don't think that's fair. But there's still turns out a lot to talk about. There's a lot to talk about outside of her.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I had that recently where when Una turned, my daughter turned 10. Like, I'm not gonna talk about her anymore because it's. I think at a certain point when they get to a certain age, it stops becoming General what any kid would say, and it starts to become very specifically what that person's saying.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then, like, you're saying. As opposed to, like, when I was doing, like, the new one, for example, like, well, yeah, that could be any baby.

[Jenny Slate]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Literally, any baby could say that or whatever.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you think you'll show her Marcel the shell?

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, I. I have showed her a little bit of it. She's kind of young, though.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, like, she's like, well, what are they doing?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. It's an interesting mashup of, like, it is for grownups. It's for grownups and it's for kids. Like, it's a little bit in that kind of Pixar space of, like, it's very sophisticated.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. It's like, it depends on the kid, too. Like, when she was 2, we tried to, like, she hadn't watched anything yet. And then we, like, all got Covid. And I was like, maybe I should show her Marcel the shell. But I just felt too weird about it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

So I showed her the, like, Winnie the pooh from the 70s.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, that's cute. Yeah. But I think eventually she'll like it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

With Marcella Shell. I was rewatching it this morning, and what stuck out to me is, like, it's so funny. And then it's, like, unafraid of being sad.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And that's, like, I think my favorite thing about it.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm glad you think that. Cause I guess that's like, I don't want to be sad. I don't want to do anything to make myself sad, and I certainly don't want to do that. Kind of like grad school short story. Like, I wrote a story about something really upsetting so that the story can be serious and good. Like, just kind of. Not that. That thing. Darkness to seem legit, but, like, there is something about being sad, essentially, like, not being acceptable, just, like, sort of baseline sorrow.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I agree.

[Jenny Slate]

That makes me feel scared. And, I mean, I also now, like, take an antidepressant, which has really changed my world, but, like, went through a lot of years of, like, why am I always as a friendly person who likes to have fun and, like, likes romance and chilling out. Why am I so sad?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, so sad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And it just felt like if I couldn't try to talk about that or get into it a bit, it really was as if I was, like, lonely for that part of myself that couldn't be included, which made it worse.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. A lot of times that's My favorite kind of comedy because it acknowledges in the silliness that also there's sadness.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, my God. Like, my favorite things to watch when I was little. Now I realize how much, like, kinship or support I felt from, like. I mean, even Pee Wee weirdly feels sad to me. Like, when Pee Wee loses his bike, it actually is really fucking sad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love Pee Wee.

[Jenny Slate]

Pee Wee is the best. Or, like, you know, Peter Sellers to me is like, there's so much sorrow in there. There's so much sorrow.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And, of course, Chaplin.

[Jenny Slate]

Chaplin so much in, like, Harpo Marx. There's so much. Just delicate, weird, twinkly sorrow. And, like, Mr. Hulo's holiday, like the Jacques Tati movie. My dad showed it to me as a little girl, and I remember making fun of him so much and being like, this is so boring. And then watching it as an adult with Dean and watching all the other Tati movies and being like, this means so much to me. It's the most important thing. And Gilda Radner was, like, a little bit sad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

In her happiness and her. But her jumping around, there was, like, something about. And a lot of it, I guess you could just see in her body.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I think, like, the best performers are, like, letting you in.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. They don't have to be sad.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But it's just like. There's, like, an openness.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where there it was, like Jodie Foster once said, they said, why are you private about your personal life? Or whatever? And she was like, it's all in the roles.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I think it's true. She's like, it's all in these roles.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's all out there.

[Jenny Slate]

Totally. It's just, like, represented differently.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. It's costumed or whatever. Performed.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. So when you in Marcel, what part of you in real life has Marcel elements and what part doesn't?

[Jenny Slate]

I think Marcel is, like, way more succinct than I am. I think I'm, like, painfully long winded, no matter what. I was just recording a new cartoon, and they're like, okay, you do the line and just say a little bit more. And the riff was five minutes. It's like, they can't use this. It's just too long. Just unwound too much. But I think at the end of the Marcel movie, the last monologue, where he's, like, talking about needing space but not wanting to be totally far away from other people and liking the sound of himself connected to everything, that is, like, an improvised bit that I had Said at another time that eventually went there, I believe. And that, to me, feels like my kind of central state and ethos. And also why I love living in Brooklyn again is, like, you can be with other people. You can be a true introvert, extrovert combo and get it all. And, you know, there's that. And then also, like, Marcel is really. When he says, like, I don't want to just survive. Like, I want to have a good life.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, I am really. That I seem to have, in spite of all of the things that can get me down, an inexhaustible appetite for life's small beauties and for creating little playful games to make things that would be boring just out of, like, autopilot. Like, this is boring. Like, the last piece, actually, in my book that I. That came out last year, Lifeform, is called the Graduation Speech. And it's about why it's so important to, like, play games in your daily life. And a lot of the way that Marcel gets through his state of being left abandonment is by making a game out of things that would be tasks. Yeah, yeah. I'm like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Aw, there's a Marcel line. He goes, guess why I smile a lot. Cause it's worth it.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's beautiful.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. It's a big deal. It's true.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you play on the set of that? Like, was it just like, what about this? What about this? What about this?

[Jenny Slate]

On the movie?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I mean, we had, like, a very heavy treatment, and then some scenes would be, like, written out. It was just so much improv.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And then Dean and our co writer, Nick Paley, would, like, listen to the audio, and sometimes they would be able to put a scene together with audio that was there. And then they would be like, well, we were really getting to something. Or like, the plot of the movie actually needs to change now that we see this. And then they would, like, write a scene, then we would record and improvise again. So it was like a really big,

[Mike Birbiglia]

like, a work in progress. Yeah, like always. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. But also, it was like, you know, during that, like, Dean and I were getting divorced, and we were recording in

[Mike Birbiglia]

the middle of that.

[Jenny Slate]

At the start, we told our, like, Sinereach, the people who gave us the. Who funded the film. I think we told them that we were getting separated, like, right after we signed the deal to do the movie with them. So we hadn't even started recording yet.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Jenny Slate]

And then. And we were recording in the house that we used to live in, and there are parts of the Movie where, like, Michelle. Michelle. Where Michelle. Michelle. Michelle. Michelle. Michelle. Which is. You know, what the movie movie's called. Where Marcel. Even I. There's also a joke about Marcel being like, oh, like, I mess it up, too. Like, I mess up my. He's like, ugh, I can't believe I just did that. Yeah, I do that. Yeah. But where he's, like, talking about, I think, like, what happened when his family got moved in the suitcase and he's, like, crying, and you hear Dean say, like, this is the last thing we'll do today.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And it's just. And I wouldn't break character anyway, like, unless we were, like, eating lunch. I would just be, like, not, like, in a method way, but, like, we were just always recording, and we had the microphones taped to our heads literally on, like, a little sweatband. And, like, I would just, like, be like this. It was just, like, talking, like, hanging out. Like, you just, like, ask me whatever you want, and I would just, like, kind of stay in this state of mind and just, like, hang out and just whatever might come up. It was like that. And then. But you can hear him be like, this is the last thing we'll do today. And you can hear me as. Me as Marcel. Be like. You know, like, it just. I don't know. It was a really weird thing that we did to do that. But it, I think, allowed us to be the people who. Like, yesterday, I was like, hey, do you want to have lunch?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know, that's what. Someone wiser than me once said that. But that's the difference between film and television is that television is serialized, so it's like a chemistry experiment, and film is like a biology experiment because it only happens once.

[Jenny Slate]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like. That's an example of, like, that's in there.

[Jenny Slate]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, your personal relationship and your collaboration. It's all in there.

[Jenny Slate]

And the movie is like. I mean, not to be, like, such a douche, but, like, it is an organic form that happened in those conditions. And I think we were even planning on kind of a slightly different movie. And, yeah, I mean, it all. It all fed into that, and it didn't. Even the parts that hurt or were painful were not. They were not dead weight.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's awesome. It's cool, emotional stuff. Support for working it out comes from Helix. I love my Helix mattress. I've had it for. Wait a minute, six years. My sleep has improved since I've gotten Helix mattress. I never jump out of windows anymore. I love it. It's springtime. Time for spring cleaning. Time for a new mattress. Ooh, perfect for this ad. If you're a listener to this podcast, you know how much we love Helix Mattresses. Everyone on staff here Working it out has a Helix mattress. We are never going back. Helix makes award winning sleep products tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. You can also rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. Helix offers a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. 120 nights. Go to helixsleep.com burbigs for 27% off site wide exclusive for Working it out listeners. That's helixsleep.com for Biggs for 27% off site wide support for Working it out comes from Mint Mobile. I don't know about you, I like keeping my money where I can see it. Just like tons of cash pouring out of my pockets. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money too. After years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up with crazy high wireless bills as well as bogus fees and free perks that actually cost more in the long run. I switched to Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Now that's a sell shop [e-mail] burbigs that's mintmobile.com burbigs upfront payment of $40 for a 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15amonth. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. You did a graduation speech. Is this true for one person?

[Jenny Slate]

I did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did that even happen?

[Jenny Slate]

They asked me and I said yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They say it was one person.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, because so Cuddyhunk island is like the smallest, I believe of the Elizabeth Islands. Like the islands that are, you know, the famous ones like Martha's Vineyard where my parents live, Nantucket. And then there's all these like other little ones and Cuddyhunk is one of them. Maybe not the smallest but either way. And they had a one room schoolhouse and their very last student was graduating from it and there weren't Any more kids on the island? Oh, gosh. And yeah, her name was Gwen. And I spent like an afternoon walking around with her, getting to know her.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And then I gave a graduation speech just to her. I mean, her family came and the islanders and my husband and I think my in laws came.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What did it feel like?

[Jenny Slate]

It felt exactly like giving a speech to a big class.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Except that, like, because a lot of it is, like, at least for me, and I think for many people, if you've, like, given a graduation speech before, and weirdly, I've done it like a couple times now, you gotta get past the, like, who the fuck am I to be telling these kids what they should do? Like, I am really not the one, you know? And like, I kind of resent having to do it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jenny Slate]

But I didn't to her. But it's like, look, I don't. I'm not sure that I have this for you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

But then the other side of it is like this exciting thing that I felt the first time that I gave a graduation speech. And I felt it again. Just like, it's so beautiful out there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And actually, I am the one to tell you about it because I feel it in a really specific way. And my advice to you is, like, find out what your receptors are for feeling what you like about life. Like, it's, you know, whatever. But I liked that I could tailor it to her and give her specific compliments and that I could give her, like a big, big send off.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's really great wisdom.

[Jenny Slate]

It was really fun.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Figure out what your receptors are.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because actually, that's huge.

[Jenny Slate]

Once I did, my life got a lot easier.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so crucial.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, once you gotta figure out what you enjoy.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Like. Well, especially, you know that thing that you said before about, like, if you've seen anyone that is, let's say, like, unfortunately, like, really hampered, limited, or maybe like, sort of incarcerated by fame. Like, they can't go to the grocery store and they want to, you know, like, everyone has different experiences with it, but if you see something that you're like, oh, I actually don't want that, or I don't want to play one role. I don't want to be Urkel or whatever. I don't want to play one role forever, so I can't do anything else. Those kinds of things you can start to know, oh, okay. I think I know what I want in terms of that thing. But then there's another thing that happened when we made Marcel the shell, which was like, I've been looking at something out of the side of my eye, sort of assuming that it couldn't ever be in the center. And I've never looked at it hard enough to understand what it is. But, like, I like helping people feel both, like, as if I just threw open a window, but so, like, a dose of freshness, but that they're comfortable but without being, like, sappy about it. Like, I like nice, pretty stuff.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And I'm not like a GEICO commercial. I'm not, like, sassy. I'm not, like, sarcastic, and I'm not dry. And I like it in, like, remember, three, two, one, Contact on pbs. Like when a flower blooms in fast motion and it looks a little shaky. Like, I like that kind of stuff. Yeah, I like that kind of stuff. And I'm supposed to be finding that, like, in my daily life, I'm supposed to be finding it. And in my comedy, I'm supposed to be finding it. And it's not like a gross, like, mandate, you know, like a cult leader thing. It's more like, this is my appetite. It's totally consistent in my private life, my private moments, and in my larger, like, work. And once I figured that out, I was like, oh, I don't have to try to be on, like, Three and a Half Men. Yeah, I don't have to have that goal.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I believe that show's called Two and a Half Men.

[Jenny Slate]

Two and a Half Men. What's the other one with the three guys? They're dorks. What's it called? Bazinga. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. Big Bang.

[Jenny Slate]

Is that one?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Three and a half.

[Jenny Slate]

I mean, clearly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Bang Theory.

[Jenny Slate]

What did I say? The big Bang.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're talking about all my favorite shows. You're trashing all my favorite shows.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, my God, I'm not even trashing them. I just mean I was like. I never felt, like, normal enough to, like, be on those shows.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I get it, you know. No, I mean, the thing that you're saying, I think is really.

[Jenny Slate]

I hope that didn't come off as, like, being shitty to that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What are you talking about?

[Jenny Slate]

You know, they're off the air. They all did a great job.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, what you're saying, though, it's really hitting me hard. That thing of, like, wanting to be. Have. Understand your receptors and then be open to, you know, new things and seeing and having the wonderment about all the things. For me, the worst is when I know that and I can't do it.

[Jenny Slate]

What is that like like, what's an example of that?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, literally feeling, like, walking around, oh,

[Jenny Slate]

my God, Dropping my daughter off at

[Mike Birbiglia]

school or something like that, and then being like. I just don't feel like I can take in the wonder of the world. And I fucking know that I should. Well, I know that's the answer, and I can't do it.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. I mean, for me, that's when I think. When I can tell that, like, there is, like, depression happening in me. Because it's not like I'm walking around being like, there's a bee, there's a zoo, you know, Like, I'm not like an alien.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, you are. I've seen you.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, I mean, I will say the couple days ago, I, like, caught myself, like, staring at, like a. What are those things? You know, like, it's like a machine and it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like a prize grabber machine at an arcade?

[Jenny Slate]

No, like a.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, like a forklift.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, but it has a big scooper.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, but like at a construction excavator. Excavator, sure. Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And I just was like, yeah, man. And it was like, not on. Like it was. Nobody was operating and I was just,

[Mike Birbiglia]

like, existing at all.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. And then I was like, oh, I've looked at it a bit too long, you know? Like, if anybody saw me doing this, they would be like, what the hell? You know? Oh, what are you doing? Looking at the. You know? But then.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But then you're doing it, right.

[Jenny Slate]

I was doing it right. And then I went to the Montague Diner and I broke my gluten free lifestyle. And I had a beer and a side of french fries by myself. And I listened to two old ladies behind me in the booth.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The best.

[Jenny Slate]

Talking about their sunglasses.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, overheards are the best.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, my God. Can I just tell you one thing I heard?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Please.

[Jenny Slate]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's much better, by the way, than television or movies.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, my God.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Overheards are as good as it gets.

[Jenny Slate]

They're so old. Okay? Like. And they know they're. They are. It's not me being like they're old. It's like they were old. They were very elderly.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They're in their 80s, 100, 200 years old.

[Jenny Slate]

Right. They were like 300 years old. They come in, they're like, I'll have scrambled eggs. The other one's like, scrambled eggs as well in an iced coffee. And they don't get anything else. I'm like, you guys are gonna blow out your stomach lining. Like, what the fuck? You're so old. You better have some bread. Girls but anyway, they didn't. Then. Then they're, like, talking. It. They're. They were literally talking about the senior citizen center. And they're like, you know what? I love the improv classes. And I'm like, the improv classes. I'm like, I'm. I am, like, tightening up. Like, I was like. It's like the emotional version of, like, getting hard or something. Like, I was like, oh, like, I love that they're doing this right now. I was, like, standing on end listening to them. This lady's like, oh, well, I know why you like the class. Cause you love. Cause Stanley's your guy. And then there's a weird silence, and the same lady goes, I know he's been to your apartment.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my gosh. That's good. That's good, too.

[Jenny Slate]

It was like, you know, have you seen the episode of Seinfeld where Jerry tells George, like, maybe what Elaine said during sex? And George squeezes the ketchup and it, like, ejaculates. He's like. And it like. And then he looks. It's like, the best acting in the world. That's what. Like, when I heard, like, I know he's been to your apartment, I was like, I'm dead. I loved it. But anyway, I was like, oh, I guess I do do what maybe you might think I do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, I'm like. I'm, like, doing my life, but when I am in a more kind of like, she's down, she's down, folks moment, which is not great. One thing I notice is that I understand what is so beautiful and what are normal beauties that are there. And I can see my separation from them and that I have no receptor. And it compounds the feeling of isolation. And I feel scared. And I have a deep sense of, like, what's wrong? Something's wrong. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, the difference between, like, you know, being like, watermelon is so beautiful and then being like, watermelon stupid.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, the same watermelon fruit out of here, man. How do you know why it's here?

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a mess. This is a mess. Why is everything a mess with seeds?

[Jenny Slate]

Forget it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Same thing. Apple orchard last weekend with my daughter. It's like, this is the most beautiful thing I could possibly behold. And then, like, later in the day, I'm like, I'm tired. This sucks. Yeah. It's all the sides of the same thing, but, yeah. This is a slow run.

[Jenny Slate]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What are people's favorite and least favorite thing about you in my life? Yeah,

[Jenny Slate]

I would say, like, my Husband's favorite thing about me is that I always want to talk about what's happening. Like, what's happening here. And I would also say that's his least favorite thing about me as well.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I got some similarity on that.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Who are you jealous of?

[Jenny Slate]

I'm jealous of. Who am I jealous of? I guess I'm jealous of. God, what an ugly word.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The follow up question is, who are you jealous of? That you didn't say, but you thought of.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Like, I'm, like, jealous of, like, Tilda Swinton.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, because, like, I don't wish her. I. Like, I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No one wishes her. I don't wish her ill. No one wishes her.

[Jenny Slate]

I want her to live.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We wish. We're wishing you well.

[Jenny Slate]

I just think it seems like she figured it out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The body of work stands for itself.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The Tilda Swinton canon.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is. Is gold.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. You know, I get it.

[Jenny Slate]

She seems like she's doing it, and I want to do my version of what she does, whatever that is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Tilda, if you're. If you're listening. Yeah, we want you here.

[Jenny Slate]

Let me know what I should do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Let us know. Let us know what we could do.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, I just. I heard her on, like, an interview where they were asking her, like, the most intense questions, like, kind of about, like, political things and stuff. Like, she had no fear. She was so. She just had all this. She just did everything. She said everything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you remember a time you were caught in a lie?

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, God, yeah. In fifth grade, I read Roald Dahl's autobiography.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Jenny Slate]

And he fakes in appendicitis.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh.

[Jenny Slate]

And I did that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Jenny Slate]

Uh huh. And I was like, ugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Did you get the idea from the Roald album? Uh huh. Wow.

[Jenny Slate]

My mom took me to the doctor and I knew just what to say. I just wanted attention.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

But it got taken too far. And they took me to the hospital and they gave me a series of, like, very aggressive enemas.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Jenny Slate]

And I was like, I was lying. I was lying, but it was too late. I didn't have any shit left in my body.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Exactly. My God.

[Jenny Slate]

And they're like, we can't figure out what's wrong with her. It's not her appendix. And I was like, I was lying. And so I wasn't even really caught in a lie. I just got taught my lesson.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow. With friends and family, what topic do you worry that you talk about? Too much? That's a new one.

[Jenny Slate]

I worry that I tell my parents too often. That they need to go to therapy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's great. And they never go.

[Jenny Slate]

No, they do.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They're like in their 70s.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They're not gonna change.

[Jenny Slate]

And I'm not saying in that sort of reality TV way, like, you need therapy. Like, it's not like that. I, you know, I don't watch a lot of reality tv, but I remember that being a thing. Everybody should go the way they should go to the dentist. That's what I think. Not everyone has the means or the time, but like, it's not an insult. It's like hysterical. You're mental. It's like, hey, you seem to be grieving.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Maybe you should talk to someone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you daydream about?

[Jenny Slate]

Sometimes I have a really specific daydream that I've been cast in a movie where I get to sing like a pretty song and that I'm singing it at the table read, and everybody realizes that I'm like a lot better than they thought.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's really funny. Support for working it out comes from nocd. NOCD is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment. It's covered by insurance for over 138 million Americans. All their licensed therapists specialize in ERP therapy and will help you learn to take the power away from intrusive thoughts in live, face to face virtual sessions. They also provide support between sessions when you need it most, so you're never facing OCD alone. For some people, a what if isn't just a passing thought, it's a loop that you can't even get out of. What if I did something terrible? What if my relationship is a mistake? What if I can't trust my own mind? And no matter what you do to try to feel better, reassuring yourself, replaying, researching, the thought just keeps coming back. That can actually be ocd, not the organizing stereotype. Real OCD is persistent, unwanted, intrusive thoughts that feel totally out of character, along with mental or physical behaviors that you feel driven to do to get relief. If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NOCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started. Learn.nocd.com Mike Support for working it out comes from Rula. May is Mental Health Awareness month and the goal isn't just to talk about mental health. It's to actually take action and get people real support. A lot of online therapy doesn't accept insurance at all, which means even during a month focused on mental health, you're stuck paying out of pocket or signing up for an expensive monthly subscription. Rula does things completely differently. They partner with over 120 insurance plans, making the average copay just $15 per session. That's real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that actually makes sense because the whole point of Mental Health Awareness month is making sure people actually get help, not just thinking about it. Mental Health Awareness month is your reminder to finally take that step. This is one of the easiest ways to actually follow through. No wait lists, no frustrating back and forth to this Mental Health Awareness Month. Don't just think about your mental health, actually take the step to take care of it. Visit rula.comburbigs to get started. That's r u l a.combrbigs you deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. Support for working it out comes from Pesti. Pesti is do it yourself pest control. Oh, man. With Pesti you can get started at 35 bucks per treatment with a customized plan based on your location, bugs and climate. I just have to say, like, that's, that's a lot less than I've. I've paid for my treatments, but not anymore. Now I got Pesty. You know what's great about the Pesty website? They have images of all these bugs so you can tell what it is you're dealing with. Pesty's kid and pet friendly. Thank God the pesticides they ship are fully registered and have been used in hospitals and schools all over the country. Pesty offers 100% bug free guarantee and or your money back if the bugs don't go away. You'll get a full refund or the bugs will. I added that. Get bugs out of your house with Pesty. Go to Pesty.com WIO for an extra 10% off your order. That's P E S T-I E.com W I-O for an extra 10% off. Do you have anything in your notebook? What do you call it? You call it like bips and bops or something?

[Jenny Slate]

Well, that's on my computer. It's problems. Well, no, I have scraps. Scraps, scraps, scraps. And then fragments and problems, I think.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Are you open to sharing any scraps or fragments and problems today on the show?

[Jenny Slate]

I have one thing and I just, I can never make it work. I always feel like I come off really mean on stage when I do it. So basically like I was just trying to. Or maybe I'm just old and people don't think what I'm saying is funny, which is like a Terrible. You know, it might be. I doubt that's it, you know, comedian in your 40s, you don't know. But anyway, it's that, like, how weird it is that you're. That like, my husband's not doing this, you know, so also he gets implicated. The whole thing doesn't work. But anyway, let's say it's weird that my husband can look at like a picture on Instagram of like his friend's cousin in her bathing suit, right? Because if he came into the bedroom and I had like a shoebox of physical photos and I was looking at like the cousin of his friend Nick or something, and he was like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm looking at a picture of this guy Neil in his bathing suit. He'd be like, why, why are. Why, why do you even have that picture? Yeah, and so like, it's this like, weird world where it's like, what are we all doing? You know, like, is anyone keeping tabs on what we're doing? And I know it's, you know, really been exacerbated. But then there's the other thing of like, when, you know, he. Again, imagine it's he hasn't done this, but whatever. It's my fear fantasy. Like, he posts a picture of spaghetti and meatballs and one of his ex lovers, like, Hearts, likes the picture and it's like, at best she's like, I like your spaghetti. Right? And at worst, she likes it. And it's like, remember when I came? Remember when I was riding you, My titties were bouncing up and down and I came. Yeah, yeah, that like eight years ago, you know, both are bad. Well, he's fucking talking about his spaghetti, right? But, but a. That doesn't really represent my personality anymore, Right. Like, I kind of feel like I just like, don't care.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

But I really like that bit. No, it's funny, but it's not really my style. Maybe that's why I can't do it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think it's your style in the sense of like, it's a very true observation about the odd sort of like, voyeuristic, like, role that we allowed us ourselves to slip into. Yeah, it's so strange. Yeah, I think about that a lot.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, that you can know what so many, like, I haven't seen most of my male friends with their shirts off, for example. Like, like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And now you can zoom into them.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, Canadians aren't. Yeah. Like, pizza partying at the, like at the pool or whatever. Like, I don't feel like it's happened. In fact, someone asked Gabe Liebman, like, or Max, one of us, like, what is the key to having a 20 year, like, best friendship? And one of them said, don't see each other in your bathing suits more than twice a year.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And it's like, I think that's actually fair. But now I'm like, I actually know what a lot of people's like, nips look like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

And that's kind of weird.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It is weird.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm not comfortable with it, but yeah,

[Mike Birbiglia]

it's almost like the. It's almost like the era of mystique gone.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like, no mystique.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And. And nothing also, like, just nothing feels inaccessible.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Everything feels like. Yeah. What's that person's. What does that person's stomach look like? Let me find a photo and zoom in.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, it's so. I don't think we should have it. But I'm not saying anything new.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, I know what you mean. But what's funny is we with you because you're not on social media. You are putting your money where your mouth is in terms of like making a point like that. Like, I don't go. I don't go down this rabbit hole.

[Jenny Slate]

Well, it is true. I don't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And like, that was one of the last things that I thought of before I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is that why? Because you were in that rabbit hole and you were like, oh, no.

[Jenny Slate]

It just made me feel bad. In all the ways that everybody feels bad, you're not doing a good enough job. You're not. You're ugly. Everyone hates you, but everyone likes you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

How are you gonna. What is it like? It's. I felt the pull of it. It felt like the ring. The Gollum ring.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. I feel like you could do something, do a bit where you, like, are a. Right. I mean, this is not like the funniest part, but it's like narrative wise, like how you arrived at being off of it actually. That's because you actually are off of it.

[Jenny Slate]

That's really the key.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm just gonna have to try to remember something funny that happened and not just like all the sad stuff.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Also like leaning into the act outs of the photos and all that.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, that's really cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Could be good. Just because, like, when I watch your stuff.

[Jenny Slate]

It's good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, it's good, right? It's fun. Well. Cause like whenever I watch your stand up, I'm always Like, if I worked with Jenny, I would just be like, everything you're doing that's weird. I would fucking lean into it a thousand percent. You know what I mean? Whenever you're doing your sound effects or your workouts and you're just like non sequiturs and like, I'm always like, do I just keep going?

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, I feel like I'm so leaned into it that I'm lying down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Basically. It's rock and roll. Like, it's so good.

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So I would just like. Like, I wouldn't give up on the bit you're saying I would do it, but I would. I would explore the act outs of the photos of the videos of the Whatever.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because I think, like, you have a superpower in that. That. That. That I don't have. That. That 99% of people in comics do not have. Which is. You're an amazing actor and you're amazing improviser. So, like, if you live everything that you're saying, if you're passionate about the thing you're saying, it's gonna pop hard.

[Jenny Slate]

You're blowing my mind right now. I genuinely, like, have been like, I'm not gonna do stand up again. I think I'm done. And now I just want to do it again.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, you're great.

[Jenny Slate]

Cool. Okay, cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you have any other bits that you're like that are half. Half premises, half ideas?

[Jenny Slate]

No, no, no. I wanna hear yours. I think I've taken too much time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is not great.

[Jenny Slate]

I'm sorry. I hate myself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This. This is one that has a front but doesn't have a back, which is like, I was. I was. I was on a subway platform with my daughter and. And she just turned 10. And she goes, sometimes I don't feel 10. And I go, sometimes I don't feel 47. And she goes, I don't even think of 47 as an age. I just think of it as a number I use in math class. And I. I wanted to just jump right in front of the train, but then I thought that would feel too causal.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I actually swore that I would not tell that joke publicly. But I do think it is kind of funny.

[Jenny Slate]

It's really funny, but I don't know where to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I also don't know where to go with it, but it is an odd thing when your child can't even conceptualize your age.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Because you know where I would go with it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

What were you doing is like all the ages and maybe you're just not like, this. But like, there were a bunch of ages, numbers that I could know what that is.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know what I mean?

[Jenny Slate]

Like, you say 17 to me. I'm like, you are drinking a fountain soda. You have a boyfriend. You know, you have the windows down on summer night, and you're just so cool. 100% 95. I'm like, you can't.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

You know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. And then. No, but. And then even like, it's like, yeah, 23. You're old, but I kind of get you.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. You're coming home. You're like, hey, dad. They're like, go, welcome back. Look at this guy. You know, like, you can see that person. But it is. That's where I would go with it is like, what is 47?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, yeah, yeah. You know, because.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What is it?

[Jenny Slate]

It's also. Is it a prime number? It's just a super problematic number.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It is. Prime number.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

I don't know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, that's good.

[Jenny Slate]

I.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She's like, I can. Yeah. I can only. I only see it as a number that is as divisible by itself.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't know. Trying to think of prime number, prime number trivia.

[Jenny Slate]

I think that's actually kind of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The. It is, right?

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Yeah. They do one thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I wrote this also, which is. Your age sneaks up on you. I'm hitting that age where I'm like, I guess I'm never gonna go. For sure. You know what I mean? Like, I think I'm not going to hit North Korea.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't even think parts of Alabama are going to be on the. On the list.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. I mean, that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's what I'm hitting, though, with my age, for real, where I'm like, not China necessarily, but like. Like, there's certain places where I'm like, I don't think that's on the list.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, you're not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to hit it.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I might go to Greece.

[Jenny Slate]

You might also.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Why not?

[Jenny Slate]

Have you ever been there?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No.

[Jenny Slate]

Me neither. Yeah. And you know what else is like, that for me is like, it was already a slim chance that I would ski, and now it's like, skiing is a good one. Absolutely not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm out.

[Jenny Slate]

You know, snowboarding. No one ever thought that was gonna happen for me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's right.

[Jenny Slate]

Weirdly, I water skied, but that's because of camp. But like, skiing, it's like, oh, I'll never. I'll probably never dribble a basketball again. Why would I totally. You know, I only did that because they made me in school.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, you're right. No. You know what? I think where that bit goes, if I end up doing it, is like you're saying essentially, like, going into a list.

[Jenny Slate]

The list. The list is so fun.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just the list of things I'm just not. I'm not gonna do.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, yeah. And then you can really throw in some fun ones that are, like, weirdly almost boring, but they were just already boring. So you're definitely not gonna do it now because it's too boring or I'm, like, obsessed with things that are boring.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That actually makes me think of the bit that I've been doing stage recently, which is like, when you're with someone a long time, you. You can say so much with so few words. Like I said, my friend was like, I want to go skydiving for my birthday and I want you to come. And I relayed this conversation to my wife, and she said, you're gonna do that? And that's when I realized I wasn't gonna do that.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. Yeah. I was like, no, that is perfect.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No way. Why would I want to do an activity that seems so dangerous, yet so fun?

[Jenny Slate]

Oh, my God. When we were in Cleveland, someone said to me, we're gonna go to the Rock and Roll hall of Fame on our day off. Do you wanna go?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Jenny Slate]

And I genuinely, without any hesitation or trying to be funny about it, was like, I can't do that. Cause I don't want to. You know, like, what am I gonna do? Like, see a guitar in a case.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Jenny Slate]

It's not. No one's, like, playing. There's not a concert there. Which, by the way, I don't wanna go to anyway because I don't like going to concerts.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Good on you for the honesty on that one. That's strong.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I can't do that because I don't want to.

[Jenny Slate]

I can't do that because I don't want to.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I can't do that because I don't want to. Should be a fucking T shirt. All right. The last thing we do on the show is called working it out for a cause. Is there a non profit that you like to contribute to? Because what we will do is contribute to them, link to them in the show notes, and encourage others to contribute.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah. I thought about this and I was like, okay, what should I do? Like, should I ask? My older sister works at Dana Farber Cancer Institute and has been working there for, like, I think 20 years now.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Jenny Slate]

And she's cared for so many people. And I was like, okay, maybe I should ask her. Maybe I should ask this. And then all of a sudden I was like, npr, man.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh yeah, that's a good one.

[Jenny Slate]

Like, I just, this is, I think they're on like week what, two or three maybe, without federal funding. I contribute to my local NPR station here, wnyc. I contribute to what used to be KPCC in la. The La est. I contribute to WGBH in Boston and KCRW as well in la. And I really, wow. I just, I genuinely fear for the world without public media. I and I feel that it's excellent journalism and that's, that's where I'm at. I think that's such a great public radio, baby.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is such a great idea. We will contribute to npr. We will link to them in the show notes. And thank you Jenny Slate, for coming. This is.

[Jenny Slate]

Thank you for having me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This was so fun.

[Jenny Slate]

This was so fun and useful and

[Mike Birbiglia]

now we're neighbors and we can talk about jokes all the time.

[Jenny Slate]

Yeah, that's really, this is really nice. Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Working it Out. Cuz it's not done. Working it Out. That's going to do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Jenny Slate on Instagram at Jenny Slate. Listen to I need you guys every Thursday on the SiriusXM app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch the full video of this episode on our YouTube channel at. Mike Birbiglia this is a really good visual one today, especially when she does Marcel Lachelle voice and I did not see that coming. You can see my face being astonished she goes into this iconic voice. We are putting more and more videos on the YouTube channel. If you don't mind, click subscribe. You will get more and more content that we are posting. Check out birdbigs.com and sign up for the mailing list. We are going to be doing another J. Hope Stein jokes and poems at Joe's Publisher coming soon. We're going to announce that on my mailing list, so sign [e-mail] to be the first to know. Our producers of Working it out are myself along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Ben Cruz. Supervising engineer Kate Belinsky. Special thanks to Jack Antonov and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks as always to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein and our daughter Una who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us, and review us on Apple Podcasts. I saw today someone wrote a really nice review of our premium episode where we work out listeners jokes. Check those all out. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends. Tell your enemies. Tell the two senior citizens you just overheard gossiping at the diner in the booth behind you. Don't be shy. Pop your head in that booth as they're discussing senior center romances and say, hey, if you're taking improv classes, you might enjoy this podcast while working it out. Mike Birbigli is an improviser and he talks to other comedians and improvisers and creatives about the creative process. You can listen to it with Stanley back at your apartment. Thanks everybody. We're working it out. We'll see you next time.