198. Sarah Sherman Returns: If Chucky Went to Sarah Lawrence

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out

Episode: Sarah Sherman Returns: If Chucky Went to Sarah Lawrence

Date: January 12, 2026
Guest: Sarah Sherman (aka Sarah Squirm)

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Episode Overview

In this energetic, irreverent episode, comedian Sarah Sherman returns to chat with Mike Birbiglia about the weirdness and triumphs of her new HBO comedy special “Sarah Sherman Live and In the Flesh,” her unconventional path at SNL, creative collaboration, therapy, and the joys of reading negative reviews. The conversation is fast, silly, and generous, peppered with inside SNL stories, new bits worked out live, and Sarah’s signature blend of the grotesque and heartfelt.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Sarah’s Comedy Special & Reading Reviews

• Letterboxd Obsession: Sarah discusses her fixation with reading Letterboxd reviews—not just the positive, but especially the negative.
  • Quote: “What’s been so fun is that a lot of the negative reviews bring me just as much joy as the positive reviews because they’ve achieved intended effect.” (00:50 / 12:00 / 14:16)
• Originality & Audience Reaction:
  • Mike praises the special as “phenomenally original and funny and bizarre and cool.” (00:50)
  • Sarah notes many critics dismiss her as “pee pee poo poo humor for kids,” but relishes being polarizing. (11:36)

2. Therapy, Nightmares, and SNL Pressure

• Therapy Routine: Sarah does psychoanalysis on a couch three days a week.
  • Quote: “Psychoanalysis. You’re supposed to be in there every single day, digging, digging…” (03:20)
• SNL Night Terrors: Recurring nightmares of being late on “writing night," feeling like an outsider.
  • Quote: “I’m going down the hallway that keeps getting longer and longer… knocking on all the doors, being like, do you want to write with me this week? And people being like, no…” (04:17)
• Working Through Issues:
  • Sarah jokes about processing personal insecurities and her “animal energy.” Therapy isn’t about being a ‘tortured artist,’ but about not being “a fucking chore and a burden.” (17:50, 18:57, 20:28)

3. SNL Process: Animals, Collaboration, and Lorne

• Animal Characters: Many of her infamous animal bits (drunk raccoon, squirrel, etc.) are Lorne Michaels’ ideas, not hers.
  • Quote: "Those have always been Lorne ideas. Every time I’ve played an animal on Weekend Update… Lorne is like, 'You should play this famous animal.'" (05:32)
• Collaboration Over Ego:
  • Sarah emphasizes the deeply collaborative structure at SNL, where even punchlines and bits are often punched up or entirely written by others.
  • Quote: “When people start to be like, it was all me. It’s like, no, no. It’s never, never.” (29:26)
  • Costume and sound designers can shape a sketch as much as the writers. (31:20)
• Learning Curve:
  • Transitioning from stand-up (Sarah Squirm persona) to the structure of SNL (Sarah Sherman persona).
  • Quote: “I’m less good at the Sarah Sherman stuff, and I want to be better at it.” (24:02)
• Support from Cast:
  • Colin Jost invited her to do Update as herself, leading to signature bits (“Chucky went to Sarah Lawrence”). (26:49, 27:07)
  • Guidance from other writers like PDD and Ashley Padilla.

4. Special Production & Guest Appearances

• Producers: Safdie Brothers and Ron Bronstein co-produced Sarah’s special. She actively sought them out after relating deeply to “Uncut Gems.”
  • Quote: “I don’t mind hunting people down...” (16:38)
• John Waters Cameo:
  • Sarah wrote Waters a letter with a drawing to land the cameo; she was “so starstruck [she] couldn’t speak.” (38:00)
• Cutting the Special: 30 minutes were cut for pacing—“Leave people wanting more!” (14:27)

5. Bowen Yang’s SNL Departure

• Sadness & Admiration:
  • Sarah discusses Bowen’s incredible work ethic, positivity, and how much she’ll miss his humor and presence on the show. (34:38)
  • Quote: “He always makes me laugh … it sucks.” (35:52)

6. The “Slow Round”—Jealousies, Advice, and Emotional Songs

• Creative Jealousy:
  • Sarah admires Ashley Padilla’s ability to “write the perfect sketches” and her generosity in helping others. (36:15)
• Advice:
  • From Dynasty Handbag: “You don’t need to schlep all your props … you’re enough.” (40:11)
• Songs That Make Her Cry:
  • “The Christmas Shoes” and “Picture” by Sheryl Crow & Kid Rock. (41:11)

7. New Bits: Working Out Material Live

• Sarah’s “Brazilian Butthole Lift”: Imagining a new, grotesque beauty standard and its comedic implications. (42:04)
  • Mike: “You just did this physical thing for the audio listeners… you just did like a back bend.” (42:47)
  • Group riffing on underwear practicality, saggy body parts, and elaborate scenarios.
• Mike’s “Leashed Kids in Brooklyn”: On the absurdity of children on leashes, dog walking, and feelings of social exclusion. (47:00)
• Shared Bathroom Key Bit:
  • Disgust at café bathroom keys attached to ladles, bricks, and the anxiety around who touched what and why it might be weaponized. (49:17)
  • Sarah: “Maybe it’s such a big thing on the key because … they’re giving you a weapon.” (51:16)

8. Final Thoughts on Collaboration, Surrender, and Process

• Sarah: “Collaboration is life. You don’t get anywhere alone.” (29:19)
• Both discuss the parallels between the SNL process and a school play—“everything’s the school play”—no matter the scale. (32:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reviews & Audience:
  • "What’s been so fun is that a lot of the negative reviews bring me just as much joy as the positive reviews because they’ve achieved intended effect.” – Sarah (00:50, repeated at 14:16)
• On SNL’s Lorne Michaels:
  • “He’s 80 years old. He’s faster than me…he writes the show!” – Mike (07:44)
• On Comedy & Suffering:
  • “Nothing good comes out of suffering… I am in therapy because I’m not being my best self if I’m suffering.” – Sarah (17:50)
• On Creating Comedy:
  • “It’s a way to harness my wild energy for the show.” – Sarah (06:51)
• On Collaboration:
  • “Collaboration is life. You don’t get anywhere alone.” – Sarah (29:19)
• On Generosity:
  • “When people are generous to other people creatively, it doesn’t hurt you. It helps.” – Mike (37:32)
• On New Material:
  • “Brazilian butthole lift… now my hole’s in the middle of my back…” – Sarah (42:04)
• On SNL Persona:
  • “Sarah Squirm is just the stuff you can’t put on tv.” – Sarah (24:15)
• On John Waters:
  • “I sent him a letter. …I drew a picture of myself as a pile of bones and guts. …Then I got a phone call: ‘Sarah, this is John Waters, see you on set.’” – Sarah (38:10)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Letterboxd reviews & special backlash: 00:00, 11:36, 14:11
• Therapy, SNL nightmares: 02:39 – 05:07
• Animal characters, Lorne Michaels: 05:24 – 08:01
• Collaboration, writer’s room: 25:11 – 29:19
• Advice to new comedians/collaboration: 37:32
• Sarah & Mike test out material: 41:54 – 50:56
• Sarah’s “Chucky went to Sarah Lawrence” story: 27:06 – 28:36
• Bowen Yang farewell: 34:33 – 36:00
• John Waters cameo: 37:55 – 39:05
• Nonprofit plug (Trans Lifeline): 51:49

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Tone & Style

The conversation is goofy, self-effacing, and warm, moving fluidly from gross-out punchlines to sincere reflections on artistic struggle, belonging, and the necessities of teamwork. Both Sarah and Mike riff on ideas without ego or pretense, inviting listeners behind the scenes of mainstream comedy and the messier, artsier world that fuels it.

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Further Listening/Watching

• Watch Sarah’s special: “Sarah Sherman Live and In the Flesh” on HBO
• Follow Sarah: @SarahSquirm on Instagram
• Support: Trans Lifeline

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Transcript

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm obsessively reading letterboxd reviews. I never read anything online with SNL because I'm like, well, there's no way that's gonna be good, right? But I'm genuinely curious with what people think about the special. There's a lot of half stars. What? Yeah. But I I what's been so fun is that a lot of the negative reviews are bring me just as much joy as the positive reviews because they've achieved intended effect. He here's a half Sarah Squirm. My slimy pussy is full of bones and animals and it's huge. My boyfriend throws up while licking it. I'm crazy. Audience claps politely say like the negative reviews are all amazing. They are amazing. The intended effect has been affected.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is the voice of the great Sarah Sherman, AKA Sarah Squirm. You know Sarah from Sarah Ant Live. She has a new HBO special called Sarah Sherman Live and In the Flesh. It is phenomenally original and funny and bizarre and creative and cool. We talk all about it today. She was on this podcast in 2022. You can go back and listen to that one. It's a really good episode and she is back today and we have a great conversation about her special about snl. Thanks to everybody, by the way, who signed up for the text message alerts. We are announcing some small club shows with new material in Philadelphia, Palm Beach, Madison, Buffalo, Raleigh, Los Angeles and Nashville as well as New York City. If you want to be the first to know about those, text 917-444-7150 and then text the word Burbigs so you'll be the first to know about those shows. Thanks to everyone who signed up for Working It Out. Pretty premium. We just dropped another bonus episode with Jenny, My wife Jenny. That was a lot of fun. There's more bonus content coming. Also, I will be appearing in the Broadway show all out from January 13th through 18th alongside Beck Bennett, Wayne Brady and Cecily Strong. That is really, really exciting. Tickets for that show@allout broadway.com I love this chat with Sarah Sherman. We talk about therapy, we talk about snl, we talk about her new special, which is fantastic, and then we work out a bunch of new jokes at the end. We both have tags for each other. It's a great chat today with the great Sarah Sherman.

[Sarah Sherman]

You guys are getting me at like a delirious.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because you just woke up.

[Sarah Sherman]

No, I woke up and then went to therapy and then just like didn't eat and drink a lot of coffee. So you're Getting, like, raw.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, nice. This is what we want.

[Sarah Sherman]

Okay?

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is how we planned.

[Sarah Sherman]

Okay?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You went to therapy. You go in person.

[Sarah Sherman]

I do psychoanalysis on the couch.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, you do it on the couch?

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I've never done on the couch.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm supposed to go three times a week, but I'm like, bro, you cannot have all that with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

In your special, you. You say you go to therapy three days a week.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah, I never too.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I never heard of that.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's psychoanalysis. So it's like a whole. You're supposed to be in there every sing day, digging, digging, and. And it's like the more you do it, the less like, it's supposed to be, like, every day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's weird because that you'd be in therapy twice a week because I don't have time. You. First of all, you don't have time. You have this insanely taxing siren live job, which is famously time consuming.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes, yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like what?

[Sarah Sherman]

But I go on writing. I go on writing night day before.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Writing night before you stay overnight, which.

[Sarah Sherman]

Feels good because that's the day that I have the most night terrors. About, like, I think going into the job, I was like, oh, I'm gonna have the recurring nightmare of, like, being on live TV and saying, fuck.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But by accident, by accident, on purpose.

[Sarah Sherman]

Because I'm ripping a picture of the new Chicago Pope.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, the new Chicago Pope. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

You know, but my act, my recurring night terror is writing night. I'm late. Everyone already has their sketch ideas for the week and is, like, paired off and working and writing, and I'm going down the hallway that keeps getting longer and longer, knocking on all the doors, being like, do you want to write with me this week? And people being like, no, I'm booked up. Sorry.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow. So what do you think that dream means?

[Sarah Sherman]

That I'm a dumb bitch. I am a dumb. And I'm literally on the. Every week I'm on the couch like this, and I'm going like, my sketch got cut. And it's like, I'm supposed to be in there talking about my mother, my father, you know, whatever, right? And every week I'm like, I look so good in a blonde wig. What does this mean? What am I rejecting about myself?

[Mike Birbiglia]

You always play on the show a lot of char. A lot of the characters are with extreme costumes, extreme kind of animal, anthropomorphic, like, attributes. Like, is that. Do you know? Does everyone know? Well, that's gonna go to Squirm.

[Sarah Sherman]

I have a little peek behind the actor studio Ooh, I'm telling all. This is a tell all.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah, this is a tell all. This is a tell all.

[Sarah Sherman]

I have. Those have never. Those have always been Lauren ideas.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Sarah Sherman]

Every time I've played an animal on Weekend Update.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Like the drunk animal.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes. I have written something that week that's something else. And then Lauren is like, you should play this famous animal that just happened this week. It's always his idea.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's Lauren's idea.

[Sarah Sherman]

And he'll be like, so drunk. I didn't even fucking know there was a drunk raccoon.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And I wrote. I think I wrote a. I can't remember which. I think I wrote a Frankenstein update where I play Colin's monster. Yeah. I mean, I guess I'll never write this. This'll never make it to air. But I wrote something where I'm Colin's monster made out of all the body parts of, like dead interns. And like, I keep. I keep being like, kill me, you know, whatever. And I look like a. And I've got boobs on my back or whatever. And Lauren goes, how about you play there? So he's like, not that, but how about you play this raccoon? And I've been thinking, I talked about this in therapy. I'm like, what is it? He, like, wants me to play these animals. And I think it's because he knows what works on the show. Obviously it's his show. And it's like, how can we best harness my wild energy for the show?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Your animal esque energy.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right. Which I never really like. Cause I don't. I'm less good at writing for myself for a way that works with the show. As you've seen my special, you can understand. So it's like, I'll write these really wild pieces that's like, I am a dead. I'm made out of dead body parts. And I'm like, you know what I mean? And it's less fitting for the show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

And so it's a way to more.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How do we take that energy.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And fit it to something in the news. It's funny hearing that Lauren came up with that because it's like, I've never worked on the show, but I always. I don't think of him as coming up with ideas from scratch. Really?

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes. He comes up with a lot of the people always ask, like, how involved he is. I mean, he's like 80.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's 80 years old. Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

He's faster than me. And he's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, that's Unbelievable. He writes the show. I mean, that's crazy, though. It's wild.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's crazy. And he's at. He's at work as much as I am.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow. Not. And more than Che.

[Sarah Sherman]

More than Che. I'm like, please come back to work. He's like, you don't even care. I love when he's at work.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Chase said, you don't care.

[Sarah Sherman]

He was being funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

I. Carol, I love him. Michael. Che, if you're. If you ever listen to this, which you don't even care, you're probably not gonna listen to this. I love you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think we're all obsessed with Che.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm obsessed with him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's a great genius. He's the greatest. He all also, like, he was here last week. He was the greatest.

[Sarah Sherman]

He's the funniest person.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I tried to get him on this show for five and a half years.

[Sarah Sherman]

I tried to get him on in my office every day.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Do you.

[Sarah Sherman]

I want. I pitched him a. I was like, I know how to write a sketch with him. I'll pitch him a wrestling idea.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Sarah Sherman]

And so I pitched him a wrestling idea that was so. It was so bad that we both had to laugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Cause you thought he would just like a wrestling idea.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah, it was something like. Maybe you're. I didn't know. I don't know what the wrestling moves are called. Yeah, I was like, maybe you're giving someone the chair.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, sure. Smashing a chair on somebody.

[Sarah Sherman]

IKEA chairs. You have to assemble it first.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's good.

[Sarah Sherman]

That's funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Come on, come on. How is that not getting on?

[Sarah Sherman]

Maybe you're giving someone the chair. And he goes, giving someone the chair. Sorry, I don't know what it's called. Sorry, I don't know. It's called the Stone Cold Chair stunner or whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

People have always pointed out to me that, like, one of the things about Che is that when he was the co head writer of the show, he like, would write tons of sketches that you wouldn't even imagine. Yes, he would write.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes. He's like a perfect. He just knows. Okay, so there's the joke. And then he knows how to make it a fucking, like a good sketch. I still don't know how to write, like a good sketch. Like, I can think of like a funny little concept or like a little voice or something, but I don't know what makes it a sketch. And he can like, like last this past weekend, he did Black Santa Claus and it's just like a. Do you believe in do you believe in black Santa Claus? And it's a perfect sketch, and it has perfect jokes, and it's just, like, so simple. It's not. Try hard. It's really easy. Yeah, I don't know how to make something easy. Like, I only know how to make something that complicated. That's hard to swallow.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But you're special, I think is perfect.

[Sarah Sherman]

Thank you for saying this. I really want people to watch it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Your special is great.

[Sarah Sherman]

I. I want people to watch it, and I think that there's something for everyone in there, and I think it can come across, like, all the. I mean, there's fucking billboards in Times Square.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, nice.

[Sarah Sherman]

There's billboards in Times Square that have, like, a flesh sphincter tunnel with veins and eyeballs and, like, my head popping out with, like, a bisexual haircut and an eyeball falling out. And I think people walk by the billboard and they go, like, interesting. It's not for me. Or they'll watch, like, the first couple minutes and be like, I can't get through this. It's not.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, really?

[Sarah Sherman]

I. Well, because I'm obsessively reading letterboxd reviews. I never read anything online with SNL because I'm like, well, there's no way that's gonna be good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Sarah Sherman]

But I'm genuinely curious with what people think about the special because it's. I'm genuinely curious, and letterboxd is more, like, away from the fray. Like, it's not 4chan.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So I'm like, yeah, yeah, totally.

[Sarah Sherman]

And people, like, doing meas measured kind of reviews of it. And so I've been, like, fascinated. I'm. I read all of them. If you wrote one, I read it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'll look.

[Sarah Sherman]

But, like, a lot of people have said, like, it's pee pee poo poo humor for kids. And I'm like, respect. Valid. But I'm like, that is the first five minutes. It does change.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Letterboxd Sarah Sherman.

[Sarah Sherman]

There's a lot of half stars. What? Yeah. But I. What's been so fun is that a lot of the negative reviews are bring me just as much joy as the positive reviews because they've achieved intended effect, right? It's people being like, this is fucking crazy. I hate it. Gross, woman.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All I'll say my letterbox review is that my wife and I watched it the other night and we were losing it, laughing. Well, because it's so original and it's so, like, irreverent, and you just clearly, like, don't give a shit about it. Feeling like other comedy specials. Like, you don't. You're not trying to fit into the box of comedy. You're just like, ah. Like, it's clearly like your subconscious manifested in comedy.

[Sarah Sherman]

Well, what was interesting about the. I had been putting off make doing a special for a while because I love my live show. I love doing it. I didn't want to give up the jokes. I was having so much fun doing it, but also energetically, it's a weird thing to figure out how to translate into film.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And so what I was most concerned about was not, okay, it's a standup special. How do we do that? It was just making sure that was translated.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And so I hope we achieved that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sorry, I'm looking at letterbox.

[Sarah Sherman]

No, there's good stuff in there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. This is Elias Damansky Ferris, who said, five stars. Ain't nobody doing avant garde like Sarah. Dude, what the. That's.

[Sarah Sherman]

That's good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's.

[Sarah Sherman]

That's. The review read like a half star one.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, okay. I'll go to a mean one. I'll go to me one. This one's Squirm Nose Ball. I don't know. That's nice.

[Sarah Sherman]

That means that's Gen Z for, like, respect.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Sarah Sherman]

Okay, Here's a half Sarah Squirm. My slimy pussy is full of bones and animals and it's huge. My boyfriend throws up while licking it. I'm crazy. AUDIENCE CLAPS POLITELY the negative reviews are all amazing. They are amazing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. That's a pretty funny negative review.

[Sarah Sherman]

The intended effect has been affected.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is anything like. I mean, I feel like I know the answer to this. I was gonna say, is there anything too much for the special? But it's like, no. What would be cut from the special? That's the craziest version.

[Sarah Sherman]

There were 30 minutes cut out of it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, why?

[Sarah Sherman]

My producers were. There were a lot of producers on it, but, like Ronnie Bronstein and like, Josh Safdie and Eli Bush, who, like, you know, they had just gotten off of finishing Marty Supreme.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right.

[Sarah Sherman]

So they were like, really in their bag. Like they were firing on all cylinders. And they were like, leave people wanting more. Which, as a maximalist, has never been something I've considered ever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

I leave it all on the ice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You are a maximalist.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes. So the idea, like, oh, they're like, it's a comedy special. It's an hour. And I'm like, oh, it's an hour and a half. That's what I did. And they're like, it's an hour. So we took out a lot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Shut up, kid. Yeah, it's an hour.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah, it was very like, come on. And it's an hour.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Sarah Sherman]

Give him a show.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you get Safdie and Ron Bronstein to work on this? Like, they don't do comedy specials.

[Sarah Sherman]

They did Sandlers. Oh, yes, they did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I love that, too. Yeah, that was good, too.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes. Oh, I hunted them down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, you did?

[Sarah Sherman]

I did.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What did you say? What'd you say? How'd you. How do you hunt them?

[Sarah Sherman]

When I saw uncut gems, I was like. I was. I was like, this is about. This is about my family.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. Because you're a gem. You're a gem salesman.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm a gem salesman in Africa and in.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And in Chinatown.

[Sarah Sherman]

Dad works in the garment district in midtown.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay. Yes.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm from Long island, right. And I saw all of it in the movie. I saw the commute from Long island to the city. I saw all of it. And I go, who wrote this? Who fucking wrote this? Ronnie is from my literal hometown. We're from the same town on Long Island. We went to the same weirdo basement community center. I was like, who is this person who I've never understood anything more? And it's. We're from the same fucking.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But good for you. So you called them. Did. Like, how did you write him an email? Like, how does one get in touch with these people?

[Sarah Sherman]

I don't mind hunting people down.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Through, like, agents or, like, managers and stuff that didn't.

[Sarah Sherman]

I had hunted after uncut gems. I was like, yeah, you know, whatever. And then Ronnie saw I did a short called Sarah vaccine like 100 years ago before SNL. And then he saw that, and he was like, you know, he reached out to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, nice.

[Sarah Sherman]

And so. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wait to go back to therapy for a second.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love your joke about how you have a male therapist, and if you had a female therapist, she would fix this, and then you point to yourself and there'd be no show. What needs to be fixed.

[Sarah Sherman]

Dare I say, David lynch writes a lot in. What is it called? Like, Reeling in the Fish or whatever. His meditation book.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, it's not called that, but I know what you mean.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah. It's like being. Reeling the big, awesome, cool stuff or whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I'm gonna get this. Right. The book is called Catching the Big Fish. Yes.

[Sarah Sherman]

Catching the Big Fish. He writes like, you know, we have romanticized this idea of the tortured, suffering artist.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes, totally.

[Sarah Sherman]

And it's not, you can't do any. Anything. If you're in pain and you're acting like a fucking piece of shit and you feel like shit and you're acting. Nothing good comes out of that. What good can come out of suffering? So, like, I am in therapy because I'm not being my best self if I'm suffering.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

Even though I think a lot of the special is about being a neurotic Jewish crazy Jew with stomach problems and mental problems. But I aspire. I mean, the whole last 10 minutes of the special is a meditation because I actively am in pursuit. Pursuit of healing myself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Because I don't, like, negatively affecting people around me, Right. With, like, you know my best friend Jack, who produced the special? He's in the special. He opens for me on tour, like, when we're touring a lot and we're up and down in planes every single day, and I'm worried that the veins in my eyes are swelling. I start acting like a crazy person. I'm not fun to be around, and I don't want to be that person anymore.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I don't want to be that. Veins, your eyes are swelling, but it's actually not true.

[Sarah Sherman]

Well, this is my theory. Okay. You know when you fly a lot, you, like, start getting inflammation or something.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, first of all, there's a ton of radiation.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

These are all the jokes I cut out of my special.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Sarah Sherman]

I had a whole thing that's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think about this all the time because I fly constantly as a comedian, and I'm like, oh, God. I start more radiation.

[Sarah Sherman]

Airplane bit. By talking about, like, when we are in the realm of angels.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yes.

[Sarah Sherman]

There's something is happening to our. They're like, yes, we're not supposed to be up there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, you're not supposed to be there. So I think they're not interested in us being there.

[Sarah Sherman]

And it makes your body feel weird.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Agree.

[Sarah Sherman]

And I think hard to agree that when I'm on a plane and people have said this is because airplanes are dry, I have noticed that the veins in my eyeballs become more pronounced. And I've heard that it's because they're dry and they're red because it's dry. I think I'm going to. In my mind, I'm going into a different pressure zone in the atmosphere, and my. The veins are swelling. And I'm Sam Neill in Event Horizon. That's what I think is happening.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Is there physical evidence of this?

[Sarah Sherman]

Like, do I have a picture? No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah. Or like, are you seeing it in the mirror even? Okay.

[Sarah Sherman]

And I feel all of my veins are swelling and I'm going crazy being like Jack. I think I have a staph infection from sitting on an infected toilet seat on my butt. And it's just like, I don't want to be like that. I want to be fun to hang around.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, you want to be a good hang.

[Sarah Sherman]

I don't want to be a fucking chore and a burden to everyone around me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is what's putting Che off, I think.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah, that's why he won't write the wrestling chair sketch with me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

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[Sarah Sherman]

Foreign.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's a New Yorker profile that mentions that you find it challenging to balance your two Personas. The shamelessly revolting Stand up. And the more restrained SNL performer. Can you describe the tension?

[Sarah Sherman]

My dream in my life is I want to be good at my job. Snl.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're so good.

[Sarah Sherman]

No, I'm not even saying this for fishing. It's like you'd say that I'm good, but I want to come into work and just be like, I have the perfect SNL sketch right here. Right, right, whatever. And it's like, it is, you know, like we were talking about the animals. It's like, I didn't even come up with those. That was Lauren.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, but that's okay. You're a great performer. You're a professor. You're hired to do be a performer.

[Sarah Sherman]

That is true. That is true. I'm hired to be a performer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think you're being kooky on this. Yeah. You're great on snl, but what are you talking about?

[Sarah Sherman]

There is so much of the job that I want to be good at.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

That I'm just not. And it's like I can come in there every single day of the week and pitch a Sarah Squirm sketch.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm less good at the Sarah Sherman stuff, and I want to be better at it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So describe to the listeners the difference between Sarah Sherman and Sarah Squirm.

[Sarah Sherman]

Sarah Squirm is just the stuff you can't put on tv.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right, right. It's the gross out stuff. It's the eyeballs. Yeah. It's the organs, internal organs.

[Sarah Sherman]

And it's blood. And it. It's blood. But it aspires. Its ultimate goal is I'm like a shock jock or something. But its ultimate goal is like, it is just. Despite what you may have seen in the special, I do want to make people laugh and also entertain them and shock them and give them a ride.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, I get that.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right. And then I think snl, the main goal of SNL is comedy. It is, like, more straightforward. It is comedy.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And I think that it's taught me how to put more jokes in my own stuff. And I just want to. It's harder for me to write something that's not a butthole, but I'm trying. I'm trying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So when he assigns you playing like the drunk animal, are you co writing that? Are you, like, riffing on it?

[Sarah Sherman]

So me and like this raccoon thing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

He assigned me the drunk animal. So it was like, me, Mike decenzo, Jake Nordwin, Asha Ward, and Josh Patton.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Go into a room. It's a limited time.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a fun bunch.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's really fun. And we can do the kind of writing that we don't get to do on writing night, which is. Writing night is really intense and there's not a lot of time to just like, get together and actually write something out loud. It's a lot of, like, passing around drafts of something which is less hands on and more email based. So we get to do my favorite kind of writing, which is we're all in a room, we're all looking at a screen and we're line by line, just. Just saying it out loud.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right?

[Sarah Sherman]

Doing it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Just kind of a. What about this? What about this? What about this? What about this?

[Sarah Sherman]

Literally, I think we wrote it being like, like Colin Jose at the update desk. What is this first line? He says this, and then Sarah rolls out. What does she say? And I go do last night. Which is my favorite kind of writing, as opposed to just being like, I have to do a draft. I'm on my computer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Which feels more homework. But that's like, because of the time constraints is kind of what you have to do is just kind of bang something out on your compute by yourself as opposed to like on your feet kind of riffing. How close.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How close is Colin Joe's to the Persona that you put on him on Weekend Update?

[Sarah Sherman]

Very far.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Very far.

[Sarah Sherman]

Very far. He's just so easy. He's right there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's so. He's an easy target.

[Sarah Sherman]

He's an easy target.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I've never seen him not be nice to people.

[Sarah Sherman]

He's nice and he's just down for whatever. And I think a lot of people, like, he's really help. Like, he'll. The only reason I was ever on Update is because he was like, come on, update. And I'm like, okay. Really? Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What was the first character?

[Sarah Sherman]

Myself.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yourself. Okay.

[Sarah Sherman]

Because I was. When I joined the show, I was like, you know, I'm coming from stand up. So I'm being like, okay, let me write a sketch character. Maybe I have a weird voice and a funny wig. Like, I didn't know.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And he was like, just come on as yourself. And I was like, okay. And then I just was like, well, you asked for it. So then I was mean to him, but. Cause I knew.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Was your first one mean to him?

[Sarah Sherman]

I Think I had written a couple things that didn't leave table. And then PDD helped me, I mean, pick me out of the mud.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Really?

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah. Like, I didn't know how to do sketches.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Ben and Martin and John.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah. I didn't know how to write sketches or do sketch comedy at all. And they. Since they already were amazing at it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Wow.

[Sarah Sherman]

And so they. And I would literally be like, fighting them on jokes that were insane. I think I even might have talked about this when I was on here the last time, which I was like, I roll out looking at Mike myself and I roast myself by saying, I'm out here looking like Chucky's last wish. And Ben was like, that's not a joke. You say, I'm out here looking like, Chucky went to Sarah Lawrence. That's a joke.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's funny.

[Sarah Sherman]

And I'm like, But I'm so. I love, like, attitude and texture with jokes. So I'm like, I'm out here for some reason. But like, he was. And he was like, I'm telling you, they know what works.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

If I said Chucky's last wish, people would have been like, huh?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

But I'm such a textural bad punchline comedian.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a great joke. Chucky went to Sarah Lawrence.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's a perfect joke. And it explains what I look like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Was that in your first update?

[Sarah Sherman]

Yep.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's great.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What a great joke.

[Sarah Sherman]

I know. That's the thing about snl, it's. You get all this credit for jokes that you didn't write. Like, every time I come out on Weekend Update, people are like, you're hilarious. I'm like, well. Cause Martin, Ben and John wrote it.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. That's what I'm so jealous of about people who work on SNL is you get to do kind of college again.

[Sarah Sherman]

Which is so funny. Cause I hated college.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Exactly. I mean, same. I liked like half of college, maybe. But like. But there is something about the camaraderie. It seems like fun. I mean, I get that there's politics or whatever.

[Sarah Sherman]

It is amazing to have camaraderie.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Because it really. And it taught me that collaboration is life. You're not gonna nothing. You don't get anywhere alone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

100% true. That's why it's so weird when people start to be like, it was all me. It's like, no, no.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's never, never jinx. Never jinx. I'm too jinx. Stressing me out. There's never one person, even with a stand up special. I'm like, people produced it. A director made choices. People.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thank you.

[Sarah Sherman]

Everything is collaborative.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's so weird when people try to take full hundred thousand percent credit for anything.

[Sarah Sherman]

And at least if you're gonna do that, give your credit to your mother.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, to your mother. You gotta give it to your mother.

[Sarah Sherman]

She did it. She made you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, it is. That is so darn true. Is the. The thing you're doing at SNL is a microcosm for the larger thing of collaboration. And I think that's another reason why we're all obsessed with snl. It's the hierarchy. It's this. But it's also like a group of people. It's like 50, 60 people, whatever it is. Who work there. 100 and something people every week are like, here's the show. And it's like everybody's success and everyone's failure every week.

[Sarah Sherman]

And like it. I cannot stress enough, like, how much contributions from people that you wouldn't think necessarily are like, score. I did a squirrel. I. It was another last minute thing. We wrote it on a Friday. I played a squirrel. I didn't kind of really know what I was like. I didn't have the embodiment or the voice in my mind going into it because it was so last minute.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And I could talk a lot about how that process has actually been very, like, nice to learn to surrender to something that's bigger and more chaotic and wild like, than yourself. Has taught me a lot.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Because I have a hard time letting go of.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sure.

[Sarah Sherman]

And it's just been like, you have to go be a squirrel right now. And you're like, okay. I can't think about this. So the costume designers fucking put these nails on my fucking suit. And now all of a sudden. And then during run through I'm in the suit for the first time and I notice that the nails are making a clicking sound on the desk.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh. Then you make a bit out of it.

[Sarah Sherman]

And then it becomes like a whole like fucking bit. And then I'm like, so who wrote that joke? Is the costume designer.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And then there was Jeff in sound effects. Had this little like chittering squirrel sound. And so every time I went like this, he would play it for, you know, whatever. And then me and him sort of have a fun back and forth with when we're hitting the queue. So it's like collaboration on this, like five dimensional level.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Of like all these people's input and hard work and artistry are informing something. That the reason it's good is not me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's weird, like, how this zooms out. Like, it's similar to when Lin Miranda was on this podcast and he goes, everything's the school play. It's true, right? Like, and when you're growing up, if you're lucky, you get to work on school play costumes or makeup or act or whatever. And it's like. And that's everything. And that's Hamilton and that's snl and it's whatever your improv group in. In Sheboygan, like, it doesn't matter. Like, it's all the same.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I feel like that's Lost sometimes, like, people, like, look at you probably, and they go, oh, well, she gets. She gets to be on snl. That's different from what I'm doing in, you know, my theater in Tucson. It's like, not really, like, oddly. I mean, I know that the audience is smaller, but it's for a group, you know, any show is for a group of people. And you have the opportunity to collaborate and make something, like, spectacular, even on.

[Sarah Sherman]

Like, a simpler level. Because, again, it's theater. Like, going back to this theater thing, things do have to be more DIY and like, bare bones. Even though it's like, the biggest TV show in history. Just because by the nature of the fact that it's like a fast theater show and everything's like, moving around really well. Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Put it together in six days.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah. There is still like a DIY element that I love. Totally. That's like, at the end of the. Like in the Josh o' Connor show, he sits down at. This is my favorite thing. He sits down at the table and he has to tip over a mimosa and everyone goes, oh, come on, man. So there was just a Richie in special effects. There's just a string tied to the end of a mimosa glass that when he sits down, I pull. Knocks over the. Whatever. That's just like. That's like a two cent magic chair. You know what I mean? And, like, so that's that shit that I love.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you convince Bowen to quit the show?

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm so sad. I'm sad. But how come you're leaving? It sucks. Come back.

[Mike Birbiglia]

When do you know? When do you know?

[Sarah Sherman]

A while.

[Mike Birbiglia]

A while? Yeah, it seems. It seems like it was out there.

[Sarah Sherman]

He has stuff going on.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's making a movie. He's in the Wicked.

[Sarah Sherman]

He's amazing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's got cultureistas.

[Sarah Sherman]

I don't know how he's done all of it. He does everything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

He's the busiest show businessman and he.

[Sarah Sherman]

Still makes time to be nice. And he's the busiest person on the planet. Yeah. I can't even believe he did this much of SNL with all the stuff that he has going on. And he's. And he still came in every single week with 10 ideas that were all funny. And I'm like, but when did you have time to think of those?

[Mike Birbiglia]

What's your. What's the thing you'll miss about Bowen the most?

[Sarah Sherman]

I feel like I'm gonna cry because I didn't really cry that much on Saturday because I was so. Just like, overwhelmed or something. He's so funny.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And like, just interpersonally, just in the office, like, if I'm feeling stressed out or tired or feel like. Like he's gonna make me laugh. He always makes me laugh.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Always.

[Sarah Sherman]

Even if we're, like, pitching an idea in his room that we never write. That's just like, he's a. He's so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Like, we were all funny in his bones.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes. And like, even just. We were in the pre tape sketch on Friday. We all got there at 8am we're on one hour of sleep. And we were. It was kind of behind, so we were just like, in my dressing room watching Real Housewives. And he's just like, mimicking all the voices of the women. And he's like, killing me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Aw.

[Sarah Sherman]

Killing me always makes me laugh. And so it's just such a. Sucks. It sucks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're gonna have to do all his parts now.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm going to have to do Mudang the Hippo.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, let's do the slow round. Who are you jealous of?

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm. I'm jealous of a couple people. I'm jealous of Ashley Padilla, my coworker and friend, because it goes back to that thing I was talking about. She just. She writes the perfect sketches.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She's great on the show.

[Sarah Sherman]

She's amazing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

So are you. But she's also great.

[Sarah Sherman]

She's unbelievable. And she has. She's so. She's so fun. She's so nice. And I've said to her, I'm like, how do you write this? Everything I come. I will write like I'm a lizard who lives in the drain. And everyone's like, okay, well, this isn't going on the show. You know what I mean?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. But about the show.

[Sarah Sherman]

And so.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right, right. That's nice about the show, but we.

[Sarah Sherman]

Have a show to do in two days.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We have to do it.

[Sarah Sherman]

So I. I've been to her. Like, I'm like, what do we how do you do this? She's like, she helps. She helps. She'll be like, what's this character's motivation? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't think about stuff like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Nice.

[Sarah Sherman]

She's good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

She's really good.

[Sarah Sherman]

So I'm like, it's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where is she from? Like, Groundlings, maybe?

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah, she's from Groundlings. So it's funny to say. It's like, I'm jealous of her skill. And then she's not stingy with it. She'll go out of her way to help anyone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That is so nice.

[Sarah Sherman]

So it's like, there's.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You know. And that's a. That's a great lesson, too. It's like, when people are generous to other people creatively, it's like, doesn't hurt you.

[Sarah Sherman]

It helps.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Helps everybody.

[Sarah Sherman]

It actually helps you look at all your karmic points.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, you get tons of karmic points. What is a time? I don't know if you have. This was the time you were caught in a lie.

[Sarah Sherman]

Oh, John Waters is in my special.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, yeah. He does a cameo at the beginning.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes. And I was so starstruck that I literally couldn't speak. Like, I couldn't move my mouth.

[Mike Birbiglia]

How did you ask him to be.

[Sarah Sherman]

I just. I sent him a letter.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You just sent him a letter?

[Sarah Sherman]

I sent him a letter. I was like, hi, I'm. I know every psychopath on the planet says this, but I'm your biggest fan. Aren't we all? I'm like, would you be in my special? And then I drew a picture of myself as a pile of bones and guts. And I said, this is your scene partner. Would you be interested in this Being your scene partner? And then I put my phone number in it. And then one day, I got a phone call from an unknown number with a Baltimore area code and said, sarah, this is John Waters. See you on set.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And I was like, that is so funny.

[Sarah Sherman]

When I was on, I was so starstruck, I couldn't speak. And he made a joke about some old movie actress. Yeah, I couldn't. I was blacking in and out of consciousness. I had no. And I said that. I knew. I was like, totally. Like. I was like. I totally knew. I was like, yeah, I know who you're talking about.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a lie.

[Sarah Sherman]

I was lying.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's a good lie.

[Sarah Sherman]

But I couldn't. I usually am good at being like, so did you see this movie? No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Totally. I would. I would be intimidated by that. With John Waters. Because he's also a legendary filmmaker, and I just. You feel like you sort of have to lie. Oh, yeah, of course.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, definitely.

[Sarah Sherman]

But then I like saying that I don't know something, because I like also giving people the opportunity to explain something to me. Especially him. Him.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah Sherman]

Explain anything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. It's almost like the art of. When you're with someone, like, legendary like him.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

The art of how do you fake it?

[Sarah Sherman]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That you. That you're worth even speaking to.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right, Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

But also have enough lack of intelligence that they want to tell you.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Or teach you.

[Sarah Sherman]

I literally just wanted to be like this. Just talk. Just talk to me. Just tell me anything. I love hearing you speak. I pay money to hear you speak. That's what I do. Your Christmas show. I. I thought. I'm front row.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

He's amazing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. What is the. What's the best piece of advice someone's given you that you used?

[Sarah Sherman]

Dynasty handbag. Legendary performance art comedian. Hilarious. My favorite person in the world runs weirdo night in la. I like, did her weirdo night once. And I brought all my. I had my videos, I had a crazy costume, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, you're amazing. You don't need to do all that. You don't need to schlep all your props and your whatever. It's like, you're enough.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

I was like. Because it is like, when I was doing, like, bar shows, I'm bringing, like, my own projector and hanging up a pillowcase for a projection screen. It's like, it's all good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

You don't need to try. Like, you're getting paid 24 on a diet Coke to be here. You don't have to do a cartwheel on top of a seahorse. Like, you don't need to be spinning all these. Like, you're good.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right? Just you as yourself just being funny. Funny. Yeah. Versus, like, a ton of props.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Things. What's the song that makes you cry?

[Sarah Sherman]

I have two that make me cry. Yeah. Immediately. The Christmas Shoes song. Don't. I can't even think about it. Like, the mom's sick and he gets the Christmas shoes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Don't know it.

[Sarah Sherman]

And then picture. I think it's called Sheryl Crowe and Kid Rock.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a good one.

[Sarah Sherman]

I saw your pitch picture today.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And they broke. And they. They broke up. And when he sees. They see the picture of each other on the bedside table, they cry.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I have material. You have material?

[Sarah Sherman]

I do kind of throw it out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Throw it out.

[Sarah Sherman]

Okay.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, mine's not really developed at all.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's basically nothing.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's. Oh, my God, you know, body standards on women is so tough. Like, God, I just got back from Brazil or whatever. I got a BBHL Brazilian butthole lift, which sucks because now I have to poop like this. Do like a whatever back handspring on the toilet. But it's like it needs the. Like, it sucks because now whenever to shit, I have to take a yoga class and do a backwards dog or whatever. It's like it's missing the that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What do you mean the that it's.

[Sarah Sherman]

Missing, like, the joke part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, the joke part. Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

It has like, I like the image a Brazilian butthole lift, and now my hole's like, in the middle of my back, but it doesn't have the like.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. And you just did this physical thing for the audio listeners. You just did. You just did like a back bend.

[Sarah Sherman]

Kind of thing to demonstrate that I would have to be shitting out of my back.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Out of your back. A butt. You're a butt hole lift as a. Wait, so tell me what the Brazilian actually is.

[Sarah Sherman]

So the bbl, right? That's a Brazilian butt lift. And that's when the girls get the big shelf butts.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, okay. I mean, honestly, this is how much you might need to educate your audience. You might have to even explain it. Wow, look, Gary's laughing at me. Gary's laughing at me because he's like. He's like, no, people don't need to know, but I'm part of your audience too. That's true. Like, Gary knows, but Gary knows, but I don't know. That's fine.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Here's what I say is like a universal. I think in all comedy is some. It's like you're wading through with trial and error. I think figuring out what the audience knows and doesn't know and then figuring out what you have to say to them. Like, I think there's a way that you repeat like, so a Brazilian, blah, blah, blah, is this. And make that part funny too.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then what I want to do is blah, blah, blah, and then that's funnier. And then it becomes more of the twist of the punchline too.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

And then like, also. Yeah, exactly. Like what to what you were saying earlier. Like, what if your butthole was lifted? What would be the repercussions of that?

[Sarah Sherman]

Right? And I want to get to the physical part.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

Or. Or now I can just. At the urinal like this going out the back Just being backwards through the urinal. Oh, finally I can. I can do something standing up as a woman. Something like that.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's also, like, if you got the butthole left, right, food would come out fast. Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

Because the esophageal sphincter would be. Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, it's a faster process. So you're literally just like, eating a taco and, like. Right. Like blowing it out your back.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right. And it would be a more dignified way to do a human centipede. No one would have to get on their hands and knees, which is undignified.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's. I'm trying to think of what the other ramifications would be of tall underwear. Tall underwear. It does make you think about underwear. What's the point? What's the point of underwear?

[Sarah Sherman]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because you do. Because. Right. You. Theoretically, underwear, right. Whenever it was invented.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's a goo catcher.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It is goo catcher. I think, like, I think it's worth breaking out what underwear does.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right.

[Mike Birbiglia]

And why it would have to go higher.

[Sarah Sherman]

But.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay, let's talk about the practicality of a butthole lift in terms of, like, why you'd want it, like, Right. Like, do you want that or does it just sound funny?

[Sarah Sherman]

Well, that's like the problem with all these, like, aggressively, you know, the strangulate. The stranglehold, like, unfair body standards have on the female body.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, right, right, right. Oh, right, That. I forgot that that was the premise.

[Sarah Sherman]

Everything.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right. They want you to do the butthole race.

[Sarah Sherman]

In my. In this reality that I've constructed. In my ironic reality that I've constructed.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Well, I would say, okay, my boyfriend wants me to get a butthole, right?

[Sarah Sherman]

And I said, I'm only 21. It hasn't sagged that far. How much sagging has it experienced?

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, hopefully your butthole is sagged.

[Sarah Sherman]

Well, just everything does.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, everything. But that's not why he'd want the butthole.

[Sarah Sherman]

Oh, for easy access. Oh, because he wants to do standing reverse cowgirl or whatever.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is all great. Use it all.

[Sarah Sherman]

I do it at Cellar tonight. Everyone goes, huh? Esty goes, I didn't book you tonight.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're cancelled.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'm outside.

[Mike Birbiglia]

We're canceling you mid set. Are you at the Cellar tonight?

[Sarah Sherman]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I love watching you there.

[Sarah Sherman]

I miss going there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're so good.

[Sarah Sherman]

I miss USD. I miss it. I miss going there.

[Mike Birbiglia]

All right, here's what I got, okay? I was walking around Brooklyn, and there's like, 10 kids on a leash. You know, the thing, like, they're dogs. And I'm thinking, I'm just thinking, how do we get here? And I. You know, the reason that they're on a leash is that they don't want them to be human trafficked, but in the process, they look like they're human trafficked. It's like saying, we got them, fellas. Go find the rest.

[Sarah Sherman]

And they're wearing those, like, reflective caution vests. You can see them a mile away.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right.

[Sarah Sherman]

Usually if you're a trafficker, you would want to disguise everyone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Right? You'd be. Yeah. You keep them under wraps. All right, so that was one thing.

[Sarah Sherman]

I like that. Well, also, you're in Brooklyn. The dog walkers. That's huge.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's a great point. The dog walking is huge, and the kid walking is huge.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right. So how come nobody's trying to walk me? Meanwhile, I'm sitting here. I want to get a nice.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Where's my leash?

[Sarah Sherman]

Where's mine? Yeah, everybody in Brooklyn's getting walked except for me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Can you imagine if you just. You and, like, a bunch of, like, six friends just threw a leash on. I had another friend walk you around.

[Sarah Sherman]

And it's like a bar crawl.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That would be a good hang.

[Sarah Sherman]

It would be amazing. I can never get my friends to answer a group text. I would love for us all to be on a leash.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Like, no one's responded to the memes I've sent in the past week to my group chat called Soccer Club. You know who you are? Jack Ruby, Dan Sloan, Eric Rahil.

[Mike Birbiglia]

By the way, when you did the PDD improv show with me and the boys, it was so fun. You should do it always.

[Sarah Sherman]

I know. They never ask.

[Mike Birbiglia]

They don't ask.

[Sarah Sherman]

No.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. I'm gonna speak with them about it.

[Sarah Sherman]

I don't do anything. No answers my group text. That's why I want to get everyone in on a leash.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're telling.

[Sarah Sherman]

They have to talk to me.

[Mike Birbiglia]

You're telling me that the time that you did it with us, that was the only time anyone asked?

[Sarah Sherman]

They'll ask me sometimes so last minute that I'm offended where I'm like, I was not even. I was. I was not even an afterthought. I was after the afterthought at the bottom of the phone.

[Mike Birbiglia]

No, we. No, we book it. We book it, like, 45 minutes in advance.

[Sarah Sherman]

Right?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I mean, it's. It's not you. It's. It's us. Okay. I had a bathroom joke, which is, like, my problem. My problem with using the bathroom key at a cafe is. Is it, like, the wooden block? You know, the wooden Block.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah.

[Mike Birbiglia]

It's like 99 chance. That wooden block was just touched by someone who just used the bathroom and. And wiped their ass. It's like, if somebody was like, here, hold this big hunk of wood that moments ago was held, who wipe their ass, I'd be like, no, thank you. This proposition. This is a little sickening to me. Get. Get away from me with your weird bathroom block.

[Sarah Sherman]

Or when it's like a ladle. And then you're like, so now I'm thinking about some other guy touching this ladle in the toilet. What's he doing with this?

[Mike Birbiglia]

I know.

[Sarah Sherman]

Also, I'm not stealing the key. Chill out. Chill out. God damn.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, I know. Yeah, they're really concerned that you're stealing the key.

[Sarah Sherman]

I'll give it back. Jesus Christ. Here's your wooden block and ladle. Oh, my God. Geez Louise.

[Mike Birbiglia]

What if you got the ladle and you're like, oh, this is what I use.

[Sarah Sherman]

Thank you.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thank you so much.

[Sarah Sherman]

Now I'll finally be able to transport whatever's in the toilet into my car. Gas station owner. Geez.

[Mike Birbiglia]

I think late. I'm gonna add ladle to it.

[Sarah Sherman]

Late. It's always a, like a big ladle.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

Or something. Spoon.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Yeah, big spoon.

[Sarah Sherman]

It's like whatever they have lying around. That's the biggest.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Thank God you gave me a than. Yeah.

[Sarah Sherman]

And now look at me. Now I got to walk my sorry diarrhea ass all the way around this gas station to the toilet. That's like behind it with a spoon. Maybe. Maybe it's such a big thing on the key because they know you're going to encounter someone, someone on the way to the bathroom, and they're giving you a weapon.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, that's smart.

[Sarah Sherman]

At the gas station, they're like, good luck. Here's a brick. There's a guy who lives in the bushes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

There's a knife.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yeah, that's what the bathroom key should have. A knife.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Oh, my God. You're absolutely right. The bathroom key should have a weapon attached to it.

[Sarah Sherman]

Sharks.

[Mike Birbiglia]

This is a, by the way, perfect punch up of this joke.

[Sarah Sherman]

Yes.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Okay. The last thing we do is working out for a cause. Is there a non profit that you like to support? I'm sure you support many.

[Sarah Sherman]

I like the trans Lifeline.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Trans Lifeline. Trans Lifeline is a trans led organization that connects trans people to the community, support and resources they need to survive and thrive. Trans lifeline.org will contribute to them. We will link to them in the show notes.

[Sarah Sherman]

Cool.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Sarah, squirm. Come On Watch the special.

[Sarah Sherman]

Please watch it. Please, please, please, please.

[Mike Birbiglia]

That's so good. It's a classic. I think we'll watch it for many years to come.

[Sarah Sherman]

Torturing yourself, Working it out.

[Mike Birbiglia]

Because it's not done. We're working it out. Cause there's no. That's gonna do it. For another episode of Working it out, you can follow Sarah on Instagram at Sarah Squirm. You can watch Sarah Sherman live in the flesh on hbo. And of course, watch her every week on Saturday Night live. Check out burbigs.com to sign up for the mailing list. To be the first to know about my upcoming shows, the full video of this episode is on YouTube. Ikebirbiglia On my little channel. You can subscribe. Click subscribe. That helps us out a lot. And then you'll see more and more videos. We're posting a ton of stuff. Our producers of Working out or myself, along with Peter Salomon, Joseph Birbiglia, Mabel Lewis, and Gary Simons. Sound mixed by Shub Sarah and supervising engineer Kate Balinsky. Special thanks to Jack Hansonoff and Bleachers for their music. Special thanks to my wife, the poet J. Hope Stein, and our daughter Una, who built the original radio fort made of pillows. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. If you enjoy the show, rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. We've got almost 200 episodes, all free. No paywall. We've got our 200th episode coming up. We have a very exciting guest, secret guest coming up, but check those all out. Thanks most of all to you who are listening. Tell your friends, tell your enemies, Tell your friends who are getting a Brazilian butt lift. You know, the procedure can sometimes take a long time. And you could say, you know, while you're getting the lift done, you could listen to a podcast called Working It Out. And they. They work out jokes and creative ideas, and they talk about process. There's an episode with Sarah Sherman from Sarah Live that you might find relevant to this day. And then maybe you might get another procedure. See you next time, everybody. We're working it out.