← Mind If We Talk?
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- [00:02]
A
Hi, I'm Srila Roy Green, a licensed therapist with BetterHelp. If you've listened to this show, then you might remember me from our earlier episodes on topics like grief, receiving a life changing diagnosis, and the state of stigma. Now I'm sitting in the host chair once again for the special finale for season one of Mind if We Talk? We're recapping some of the meaningful moments that really got you guys talking, and we're giving a huge thank you to our listeners with a special gift. Over the course of the season, we've sat down with some incredible guests who brought their own unique struggles, insights and breakthroughs into the conversations with our host Jesujo. And what struck me most listening back is how often the same truths resurfaced, no matter the topic. Whether it was grief, heartbreak, masculinity or mental health and motherhood, themes like resilience, growth and compassion wove their way through each story. Today we'll revisit some of our favorite moments from the season to highlight the threads that connect them. You'll hear how our guests celebrated small victories, learned to accept that healing isn't always linear, discovered the strength in asking for help, and practiced being kinder to themselves along the way. These aren't just our favorite clips, they really hit home for a lot of you. These are gentle reminders that while everyone's path looks different, you don't have to walk yours alone. As for that special gift, you can visit betterhelp.com mindifwetalk for a week of Therapy Free if you or someone you love has been waiting for a chance to take the first step, this is it. That's betterhelp.com mindifwetalk to try betterhelp for free for one week let's get into the episode. Lets start with a theme that came up in more than one conversation this season. The importance of celebrating small wins. Psychologists often talk about negativity bias. That's our brain's tendency to hold on to painful experiences more strongly than positive ones. This means moments of joy or accomplishment can slip past us too quickly unless we deliberately pause to notice them. In episode one, journalist Jane Marie talked with Jesu about imposter syndrome and how the simple act of writing down her accomplishments helps her remember she's not defined by self doubt.
- [02:20]
B
One time I was working on a Show for Adam McKay and he wrote in a note in an email that this one like moment and one episode that we were working on is the best audio he's ever heard in his life and I want to Frame that and just put it on the wall. Like, this person who's very good at their job said that I made the best 10 minutes of audio that he's ever heard. And I want to just, like, I try to remind myself that that stuff happens sometimes, you know?
- [02:49]
C
Yeah.
- [02:49]
B
And, like, I try to remind myself that the way other people perceive me is not at all like, I'm an imposter.
- [02:55]
D
Do you think that imposter syndrome is something that can be avoided completely?
- [03:00]
B
I think. And I've never been good at this, but I think this is going to sound like so hippie dippy coming from me because I'm so critical of these sorts of things. But like a gratitude journal, I. Something like that. Like journaling or writing down your accomplishments for the day. My friend Priyanka gives herself gold stars, and I think that's really cute, but, like, you know, keeping a record of the good stuff.
- [03:25]
C
Yeah.
- [03:26]
B
Instead of just dwelling on the bad feelings and appreciating positive feedback, we are hardwired to remember bad things and to experience them more deeply. And I've learned that in therapy and in researching stuff for my show that. That negative feelings and negative experiences stick with us and pain us much more than positive experiences bring us joy.
- [03:52]
D
Well, some deep, primitive system is trying to prevent us from going through that discomfort or pain again. So I gotta remember it so that I can avoid it. And that sometimes turns into some dysfunctional behavior, unfortunately.
- [04:04]
B
Exactly. And we can't change how our parents bring us up. But I think, you know, as soon as possible, like, just trying to appreciate the wins and revel in them a little bit, I should let my accomplishments kind of shine for a little bit longer. Like, instead of, like, going, ah, I'm an imposter. And, like, I hope no one finds out that I. That I did something good, you know, because then I'm gonna have to defend myself or whatever.
- [04:33]
D
Yes. I just listened to you go through this whole process of telling other people. I think this is how you can help with your imposter syndrome, is revel in your accomplishment.
- [04:44]
A
That was Jane Marie. Later in the season, singer songwriter David Archuleta described the tiny step that helped him climb out of a doom scrolling induced funk, reminding us that recovery isn't about giant leaps, but about choosing to get up, brush your teeth, or show up at the gym, even when it feels extremely challenging. Here's that moment again.
- [05:04]
E
When I started doom scrolling and seeing everything going on, that was like, you need to be worried about this. Look how horrible the world is turning out to be. Because everything's going wrong and. And you might lose like the safety that you have right now. Could. It could be taken away at any moment. Look, it's being taken away from these people in that community and these people over here. And to the point where it's like, I shouldn't be happy. Look at everything that's bad that's going on. And I stopped going to the gym and I was just laying in bed. I'd get up if I had to to do work, if I had to, like, go somewhere, do a meeting, do an interview, go to a writing session, go record, and I would immediately go back to bed. And I was like, I usually go to the gym. And I'm like, I just. He's sometimes just like, I just don't care because I feel so deflated right now. You just kind of want to hide. Like, you just want to go in a bubble and be like, sad because it's like you get affected by seeing other people who are hurting, who are scared. And it's like, I really don't know what I'm supposed to do about it.
- [06:11]
D
You have a level of empathy, and when you see people suffering, it kind of brings you into that space of suffering, of staying in bed, staying away from people, staying away from anything, really. So I see you today, David, you're not in bed and you're doing a lot of things now, so I suspect you got yourself out of this funk. And so I'm curious if you'd be willing to share what you did, how you approached this to get out of it. If somebody else is out there really struggling with being inundated with gloom and doom, unable to do anything, what are some suggestions you have for them? What has worked for you at this point?
- [06:55]
E
I think I've really had to work hard. I mean, even this morning, I'm not going to lie. Like, it was very hard for me to get up this morning and, and yesterday. And I think sometimes, like, hey, what am. How am I going to get motivated today? And so sometimes you just kind of say, well, I'm going to get up and see if I can brush my teeth. But there have been times, like even the last month, I usually brush my teeth. And there have been times, like, I don't even brush my teeth, which I usually do. And I'm like, I just don't feel motivated. And I don't know why, because it's. I don't know why that happens. Like, why do you even lose motivation for basic self care?
- [07:33]
D
I'm just Thinking that you've described an experience as probably very common for a lot of people, that getting inundated with all of this news, a lot of it not so great. Feeling can lead to behaviors changing. Not being as motivated to do stuff that used to make you feel really good. So that's a very common experience. But I suspect that a lot of people hearing this that are going through, that are now asking, so now what? So how do I get out of it? How do I get back into the gym? How do I start enjoying my life again?
- [08:02]
E
I think I had to let myself fumble for like a month before I finally found myself being. Having the energy to get back into rhythm. I was going once a week to the gym about give or take. I was just like, you know, I'll go Even for just 20, 30 minutes, I was not lifting the same amount. It's like my body just didn't have the same strength that it had before. And that's when I realized, like, man, your emotions of what you're going through or what you take in can really affect your strength. And I notice there are other people, like, I would watch. I was looking at some other things. Like, people are like, you know what? It's not about feeling like doing it. It's just about the routine and discipline to just do something regardless of how you feel. And I was like, oh. I'm like, I would love to be able to say that. I would love to be able to have that mentality. And I would tell myself that. And it's like, hey, it's not about feeling like it. It's about just going, I'm staying in bed. And it's like, I don't know. It's like, am I week too weak that I let my feelings take over compared to these other, like, gurus that are saying, you know, just go and do. And I'm like, nah, no, I want to. I want to feel that. I see myself good getting up and going to the gym, and my body's right here. And sometimes you feel like people are counting on you to do your part and do your work and, like, as a musician and going to perform. Like, people come to your shows to escape. They tell you that they're like, we're trying to. Like, there's so much going on in, like, my work and there's problems at my home and in the world. And, like, being able to just come to a show one night and come to just escape for a little bit is so nice to just clear my head and just feel the healing Power of music. I'm used to doing this, but at the same time, it's, like, hard to feel motivated to do it because you're so. You're so sad, you know, about everything going on.
- [10:08]
A
Another thing that came up a lot this season is the reality that healing doesn't follow a straight path. We often wish it did. If only grief would fade on schedule or loneliness could be fixed overnight. But the fact of the matter is, healing often looks more like a winding road with setbacks, pauses, and unexpected detours. In episode two, writer and podcaster Misty Stinnett reflected on grief after losing her father suddenly and how she needed permission to let her process be messy and long lasting.
- [10:38]
C
I think something that I needed at the time, that I had a little bit of, but really could have used a lot more in an ongoing way, was permission. And what I mean is permission to take up a lot of space in my grief. Permission to have it take way longer in the acute phase than maybe made other people around me feel comfortable. After, you know, three months, the world starts to go on, right? And people sort of, you know, start approaching you like it's totally normal, et cetera. But I remember feeling like I had to pretend that I was somehow making progress with my grief again, managing the comfort of the person across from me as though I hadn't gone in the bathroom at work between a meeting and silently sobbed and then touched up my makeup and gone back out and said, hey, what do you guys want for lunch? You know, there was a lot of pretending going on, and I think when it is a massive loss, it's constant, it is always there. And I needed permission to take up space, permission to be messy, permission to speak freely around friends, permission to be angry. You know, I can only speak from my own experience, but as a woman, I'm not that comfortable being angry. I'm like, oh, no, let me bring in compassion and let me extend, you know, all kinds of explanations for why I shouldn't feel this way. So I really just needed the space and time to take a long time. I mean, my dad was my best friend. It happened suddenly. I haven't gotten to see him for the last 12 years. And that's still upsetting to me. Yeah, I really needed more people, eight months in, 10 months in, 12 months in, to say, hey, do you, do you want to go on a walk and talk about your dad?
- [12:50]
A
That again, was Misty Stinnett. Episode four brought us writer and podcaster Case Kenney, who shared a memorable highway metaphor for managing the twists and turns of life, even when you feel stuck, there's always another exit ahead.
- [13:05]
F
When I know myself and I know that there's certain people I connect with, and there's certain people I don't. There's certain contexts where I thrive, and there's certain contexts where I feel. Feel terribly alone and anxious. But I've figured out the difference. I then think of life like a highway in the sense that you know that there's always an exit eventually. And that exit, to me, represents connection, represents change, represents something positive. And because I have that ability to sit in resistance and negative emotions, the stretches between the exits, I know that eventually I'll get to that exit. So then it's just my job and in the metaphorical sense, to put the windows down, turn the radio on, and just, like, enjoy that stretch of highway the best that I can. But in terms of imagery, I've always found that to be rewarding because things can change.
- [13:56]
D
Well, thank you. Because now that song is going to be stuck in my head all week. Very catchy. I love this analogy. I've never heard this before, which is funny, because it is a song, like you say. But even when you're talking about there's always going to be an exit, we know that it's coming, even if you missed one in the past, particularly. But the highway also, once you get off, you can find the entrance again if you need to get back on and do some loopity loops and you get back and you can just keep turning around and all that stuff. So thank you for sharing that. I'm going to use that.
- [14:23]
F
There you go.
- [14:24]
D
I'm going to shift gears a little bit, but when did you first start to notice a difference between being alone and being lonely?
- [14:30]
F
When I first started doing a lot of this work, you know, I sought out a lot of other people to find their perspective to fuel mine. I was a big fan of asking older people, like, you know, 60 plus about their lives. And I never heard anyone say, I regret being single for, like, too long. That was never in the realm of regrets. And I just thought that was really interesting. That was, like, an early piece of perspective that really fueled my life. And I was, like, single at the time. And it was really validating. It really empowered me to be like, all right, well, then stay this way and learn about yourself and see this time as a time for growth and knowing yourself. And you can decide if it's loneliness, you can decide if it's just empowering solitude. There was a study I read that showed the power of framing when it comes to being isolated, they had these two groups of college students, but they had two different groups. The first group, they said, hey, you're going to go into this room, you're going to be isolated, perform this task and then we're going to ask you some questions. Second group, they said, hey, you're going to go into this room, you're going to have some me time, you're going to do the task and then we're going to ask you some questions. So they were priming them on you're isolated versus this is me time and you can see where I'm going with it overwhelmingly. So the group that was told me time, cognitively, emotionally, they showed such a lift in positivity as opposed to the group that told that they were isolated. They did the same thing. It was the same exact context. It was all about what they were told to like emotionally prime themselves for.
- [15:56]
D
Yeah, love that power of language, folks.
- [16:00]
A
That was case Kenny you just heard from. In episode five, I sat down with Jesu to reflect on comedian Ryan Sickler's stories about what happens after a life changing diagnosis. We explored how big moments like these can become turning points or a chance to reevaluate priorities and move forward with greater presence and self care.
- [16:21]
D
How might someone reframe a life changing diagnosis from something that limits them to something that empowers better self care and mindfulness? The way it sounds like Ryan has been able to do.
- [16:32]
A
Yeah, I loved hearing this and acknowledging like, yeah, that's the experience for a lot of people. I think it is pretty common for individuals who get life changing news to reevaluate life and their behaviors that accompany what they've known as their up until now life. And looking at, well, maybe that worked for a little while, maybe it's not working anymore. I think people realize like, oh, I can't go back in time but I can't move forward again. There's that theme of like moving forward and it means being more present, being more mindful, being more cognizant of the things that you do have control over versus focusing on the things you don't like. I can't control the fact that I have this condition, but I can control the fact that like I eat a little bit better or that I exercise a little bit more or I finally decided I'm going to take that class in X, Y or Z to feel good about myself in other ways. Right. Whatever that might be. I think the other piece is that it can force a person to reevaluate how they take care of themselves and how maybe they haven't been. You know, I think again you brought this up earlier, Huzu is, you know, sometimes we don't prioritize ourselves. Some people are really good at prioritizing themselves and taking care of themselves and then others may not, you know. And when you get a life altering diagnosis or life changing news, it does change that a little bit in your mind to say, you know, maybe it's time for me to take care of myself a little bit better and whatever that looks like. Not that I wish a diagnosis on anyone, but it does sometimes force an individual to look at what can I start doing better for me not taking again life for granted and being able to say I'm going to enjoy each moment.
- [18:08]
D
Yeah, sometimes getting this life changing news is what gets us to realize or kind of wake up to the fact that we're living a life, that we're taking something for granted. And we don't necessarily need a medical condition to teach us to not take life for granted. But sometimes that's what happens. So instead maybe it's something about fostering a life, starting to live a life starting today. When and if you do receive this kind of news, you don't feel like you have to radically change your life because you've been living a life that is good thinking of like the difference between being on autopilot and being mindfully attuned to the road and how it's a little bit different there, how in there's subtle differences between somebody that's passively letting life happen to them and somebody that's actively participating in life.
- [19:02]
A
Together. These moments remind us that healing isn't about erasing pain, but about learning to keep moving with it. This season we also heard a powerful counter to one of the most persistent myths in mental that asking for help means you're weak. Research shows that social support not only protects us against depression, but even improves physical health outcomes. Yet for many, especially men and new mothers, asking for help feels loaded with guilt or stigma. For example, in episode three, podcaster and author John Deloney opened up about unlearning childhood beliefs that his worth was only in his paycheck or his ability to fix things. He shared about how going to therapy gave him tools to parent his daughter with more compassion, and how that choice didn't make him less of a man, but a better one.
- [19:51]
D
If you can recall what were some of the core beliefs you developed as a child and now into manhood about.
- [19:57]
G
Masculinity, your only value is in Your answer or your quote unquote ability to fix a thing, that your only value is in a paycheck. And like the answer to the question what are you worth? Is answered with a number, which I think is insanity. But that was just the reality that not being. And I don't know how a way to say this without sounding goofy. I spent years in an MMA gym, right, like learning how to take care of myself. And so I think there's, I think that's important. I think walking down the street, I want my family to know if things go sideways, I'll stand between you and what that thing is. But also that doesn't happen very often. And so there is a utility in that. And I remember one of the most, like I, one of the most transcendent moments of my life was sitting down with my daughter. She was probably six or seven at the time. And I remember sitting on her bed. We had just been butting heads and butting heads and butting heads and it felt like emotionally she felt emotions like they were on fire. And my wife is like, we joke, she's the walking Xanax in our home. She's very like, she just is calm and can just do the next right thing. And I'm pretty histrionic and can get really dramatic and. But I remember sitting down with my daughter after going through the. I'm, I'm bigger than you, you have to do what I say, man. I just remember sitting down with her and saying, hey, God gave you and me different kinds of heads. He put a different brain in us. And what does that mean? That means we feel things really big. And also that means that we are especially skilled at sitting with people who have had a bad day. And so some of our things in our life is going to be hard. We're going to feel them really big and we're going to have to know to do the next right thing. And also when things, other people feel things big, we're going to know what that feels like and we can enter into that space with them. And I remember watching that six year old little girl, her shoulders like dropping and it was like she asked, she needs me to be big and strong. Of course, I'm the most giant person she knows. She's a little bitty six year old girl, but she also needed me to know, hey, you're not crazy. And your dad actually has those same feelings too. And here's what this might look like lived out, right? And so for me it's been unwinding some of those things and I didn't have a toolkit for that. So I had went and sat with a therapist and said, hey, I've got a little girl who feels this and I don't have the tools for it. Can you help me? Because my tools, I'm out, I'm out of, I'm out of skills, right? And when I, when I didn't look at it as a moral failure or a character failure or the world needs to bend to my arc, but man, I just don't have skills. Like I'm, I'm an NBA player and I don't know how to shoot free throws. Great, I'm gonna practice free throws. It's not like a character issue. It's just a thing. You got to practice now then taking that shame away from me and taking away that, I mean, either something wrong with me instead of, I got some skills I gotta learn, man. That man has just been freeing.
- [23:01]
A
That again was author and podcaster John Deloney. And in episode seven, Cameron Oakes Rogers joined the show as our expert to help reflect on Jesus discussion with the co founders of Big Little Feelings. Cameron shared the challenges that come with being postpartum and the life saving difference it made when her sister showed up without being asked. This was a powerful reminder that offering or accepting help is not a weakness, it's an avenue to connection.
- [23:28]
D
You also mentioned a few different ways that we can proactively create community around new moms in our lives, what we can do to help them. For example, you've also shared a text online that you sent to a friend of yours who just had a baby offering help.
- [23:42]
H
You know, that text went viral in a way that I could have never expected. I think it comes down to a few things. One, a lot of the times we struggle asking for help. If someone offers, sometimes we'll accept or we'll just say, you know, if someone's like, oh, what can I do for you? I'm not going to ask my friend if they say, what can I do for you? I mean, maybe I would with my close friends, hey, can you come do my laundry? I'm flooding in like postpartum. I have not done our kids laundry in weeks. You know, that's a really hard ask to ask someone. And so the reason why I think that text perform so well with my community and for many people on the Internet is because it took ownership on the friend of being like, hey, I am coming to help you. So it's not even a question. And of course this was sent after she had like Told me she was accepting visitors. But I'm coming to help you, so you don't even have to ask me. And I'm going to put the ball in your court to decide how you want me to help you. But I'm going to give you options to take that mental load off so that you can just simply pick from this list. I can either come to your apartment and sit with your baby while you go and sleep, or you go out to eat with your husband, or you go for a walk, or you do whatever the heck you want to do. Or I can come to the apartment because many people want help with the baby and many people want help with the housework. So I can also come to the apartment and you can sit on the couch with the baby or go take a nap with the baby or do whatever you want to do. And I will cook for you, I will clean for you, I will grocery shop, I will do your laundry. Like all of those options were listed out. Or we can just come and take the baby out for a walk together, or we can sit on the couch and order in food and watch a movie and just laugh and have fun. So I think creating that list of options is so beneficial because then it's already said that you're helping no matter what. And the person who is in postpartum gets to decide of this is in this moment, what would be the most helpful because that's going to change day to day.
- [25:41]
D
I wish I had had this conversation with you before all the babysit came into my life because it would have been, I'm sure, helpful.
- [25:47]
H
I think also talking with your village beforehand about what you think will be the most helpful. And again, you won't know for sure. But I know for me, my second go around, you know, I didn't need a baby shower or sprinkle or any of those things. I didn't need baby blankets or onesies. I had everything. What I really wanted from my village if they were in a place to give and wanted to was food. So my sister set up a meal train and they were like, cam does not want any gifts or anything. But if you want to support her, here is the link to her meal train. Feeding the family is the most beneficial thing because right now in postpartum it's so easy to forget to feed yourself and to forget to care for yourself. And personally, I find that is the best way to show up and support someone in postpartum or one of the best ways.
- [26:40]
A
Finally, let's return to a recurring theme from our Debut season of Mind if we Talk one that underpins all the self kindness so many of our guests spoke about their inner critic dealing with shame spirals and the way we abandon ourselves to meet others expectations. But as Kristin Neff's research on self compassion shows, treating ourselves with the same warmth we'd offer a friend can dramatically improve our resilience and emotional well being. In our season finale, Dating coach Sabrina Zohar described how she reframed anxiety not as something to eradicate, but as something to understand and care for. Her reminder was simple but profound. Either you choose yourself now or you risk abandoning yourself later.
- [27:27]
I
Well, I think a lot of us, we've, we've been sold this false bill of good of like if you do like people ask me every day how do I get rid of anxiety? And it's like, oh, okay, that's like saying how do I get rid of a limb? It's like you want to try, you don't. You can't get rid of it because it's a part of you. But what I could do is I could learn to understand it, I can reparent it, I can show up differently, I could speak to myself differently. So that way I can handle these things like an adult and not try to get rid of something because what I resist is going to persist. And so I think that shift of just being able to stop and say, I'm allowed to feel this, you will feel the world of a difference better versus shaming, blaming, spiraling going into that. Because we think when we're doing that, we're dysregulated and we don't have a choice. You might not like the choice. You're right. You might not like that you have to block this person or that they're not right for you or that choosing yourself feels really scary. But either you choose you or you self abandon to be chosen. You're gonna cry now or you'll cry later. You get to decide, right?
- [28:20]
D
Self abandon to be chosen. Which to me I'm interpreting that to be whoever is being chosen is not actually authentically you. And that's gonna come to a head at some point eventually anyway. So how would you say having a career focused on dating and relationships has impacted your personal healing process?
- [28:39]
I
Boy, having a career that focuses on everything that I've been healing. My therapist a year ago was like, congratulations on choosing something that reaffirms all of your core beliefs. And I was like, thank you. I am healing through in this career because I put myself out there, I get attacked Every day. I don't like your speech. And it's like, I have adh. Okay, I don't. What do you want from me? I have people that argue with me, that attack me, but then I have an incredible community of people that love me and are there for me. And so for me, while I'm doing this work, I have to also be very real. I'm not perfect. My partner and I have our stuff. We're not trying to pretend to be anything we're not. And I think for me, it's allowed me to step even more into who I actually am. Because if right now, my mom always said, I rather you not like me for who I am than who I'm pretending to be. And so now that's what I've embodied of. If you're not going to like me, that's okay, because a lot of people don't like authentic people because it's very, very confronting to them. And that's fine. You're not for me, but for the people that are. That's why I do this, because I love what I do. I love helping people, and I love being able to actually implement the material in my own life and then show people what it looks like in real time to do this work and not again feel alienated like I did for years because I didn't know where to go.
- [29:51]
A
As we close the season of Mind if We Talk, I hope that revisiting these moments together can remind you that healing is a process full of small victories, detours, support from others, and above all, the need for compassion toward yourself. We've loved reading your reviews on the show the last few months and can't wait to keep bringing actionable mental health advice your way. For now, as a big thank you to our listeners, we're offering that special gift of a week of therapy. Free. If you've been thinking of trying therapy for the first time, or picking back up again, or talking to a loved one about how therapy could help them, this is our way of encouraging you to take the first step. Just visit betterhelp.com mindifwetalk that's one free week to try betterhelp@betterhelp.com Mind if we talk? We'll see you soon.
- [30:38]
D
Mind if We Talk is produced by Acast Creative Studios in collaboration with BetterHelp and hosted by me, Hesi Jo. If you like what you just heard, drop us a review on Spotify or Apple podcasts and share with your friends. Maybe one of our topics will help someone in your life and remember your happiness matters. Mind if we talk? Is intended for entertainment and education, not for mental health, diagnosis or medical advice.