I wish you knew…what it was like growing up low-income

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Mind If We Talk? – “I wish you knew… what it was like growing up low-income”

Host: Srila Roy Green (BetterHelp)
Guests: Viviana Vasquez (Financial Educator/Influencer), Javi (Viviana’s Husband), Special Expert: Sarah Close (Licensed Therapist)
Release Date: March 26, 2026

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Overview

This episode of "Mind if We Talk?" dives into the experience of growing up low-income and explores how early financial hardship can deeply influence not only our relationships to money, but also our sense of self-worth, emotional wellbeing, and intimate partnerships. Host Srila Roy Green facilitates a courageous, vulnerable conversation with Viviana Vasquez and her husband Javi, who detail their contrasting upbringings, the unspoken pressures and shame that come with money differences, and how open communication and therapy helped transform secrecy and isolation into trust and collaboration. The latter part of the episode features therapist Sarah Close, who explains the psychological impacts of financial trauma and provides practical advice for individuals and couples navigating similar issues.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Viviana’s Money Story: Childhood in Low-Income, Immigrant Family

[04:22–08:07]

• Viviana describes growing up in a family of five in Manhattan in a rent-controlled but rundown apartment. Issues included unreliable utilities, mice, and roaches.
• She absorbed her parents’ financial stress early, feeling a responsibility (as the eldest daughter) to “fix” things.

  “When I was in high school, I had to fill out the FAFSA by myself…that’s when I realized we were living below the poverty line.” (A, 04:58)

• There was both normalization (because many peers had similar backgrounds) and alienation, especially in comparison to middle/upper-class classmates.
• Internalized the ambition to “save” the family: “Cuando yo este grande tolla comprehend…when I’m older, I’m going to buy us all a home. I’m going to pay for everything…” (A, 07:38)

2. Shame, Secrecy, and Relationship Dynamics

[09:02–16:35]

• Viviana and Javi discuss how their different financial backgrounds (hers: low-income and financially responsible for family; his: relatively stable, middle-class) created initial barriers.
• Viviana hid her financial struggles and debt for nearly two years out of embarrassment and fear of judgment.

  “For a really long time, I never told him that I was struggling financially…it wasn’t until maybe two years in where I told him.” (A, 00:00 / 12:45-13:44)

• The reveal was pivotal. Javi responded with empathy, not judgment:

  “I understand, but not really, and I’m here for you.” (C, 09:50)

• Javi felt both sadness for Viviana’s situation and some guilt for not recognizing her distress sooner.

3. Breaking the Silence: How Openness Changed Their Relationship

[19:04–27:48]

• Post-revelation, they shifted from “50/50” financial strategies to more collaborative, compassionate planning.

  “For her to tell me that…it made me really sad and proud at the same time, because…I wouldn’t have been able to do what she did.” (C, 14:00)

• Viviana’s reluctance to accept financial help stemmed from hyper-independence learned as the eldest daughter.
• They ultimately built a foundation of trust, regularly discussing money and supporting each other’s families as needed.
• Viviana acknowledges progress, but notes some scarcity mindset “triggers” remain (e.g., guilt about spending on “wants” like getting her nails done).

4. Tools for Healing and Growth in Inter-Class Relationships

[20:32–29:44]

• Tough but open conversations (about quitting jobs, prenups, financial plans) strengthened their unit.
• Both stress the ongoing nature of healing from money trauma and learning to “shift from a scarcity to an abundance mindset.”

  “You could be in a completely different place as an adult than you were as a child and still think the way that you thought about money as a child. And I think that’s okay.” (A, 28:07)

• Advice for couples: Practice patience, understanding, and honest, nonjudgmental communication.

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Therapy Segment: Expert Analysis with Sarah Close

[35:24–59:00]

a. How Early Financial Strain Affects Children

[35:40–36:30]

• Chronic financial stress impacts the developing nervous system; kids often become hypervigilant and may try to “fix” the situation (parentification).

  “The things that are not spoken out loud are often felt…that sense of stress can really impact a developing nervous system.” (D, 35:40)

b. Separation of Past & Present – Changing Money Narratives

[37:13–39:23]

• Healing is possible, but it’s ongoing. Recognize when adult reactions are rooted in a child’s fear.

  “Anytime that it comes up, we are able to ask ourselves: does this feeling or experience feel younger than I am?” (D, 37:31)

c. Therapy & Self-Compassion

[39:40–40:44]

• Therapy helps unpack money stories, slow down trauma responses, and reveal underlying fears and needs (connection, safety, worthiness), not just “the numbers.”

d. Belonging & Identity: The Psychological Throughline

[41:52–45:18]

• Childhood lessons about not belonging can snowball into perfectionism, hyper-independence, risk aversion, or hopelessness.

  “That concept of money and belonging…is literally their life or death experience. This is a survival response.” (D, 41:52)

e. Money in Adult Life: Triggers, Conversations, and Differences

[45:49–53:36]

• Money struggles and shame resurface in work, relationships, and major life choices.
• Open, heart-level communication is key to healing but especially difficult for those with a history of scarcity.
• Couples with different money backgrounds can find strength in their differences by acknowledging and balancing each other’s strengths and weaknesses.

f. Practical Advice for Couples

• Write and share your “money stories.”
• Recognize that money arguments are seldom just about numbers—they’re about safety, trust, and identity.

  “You’re not fighting about dollars, you’re fighting about what the dollars mean.” (D, 57:22-57:30)

• Shift from “me vs. you” to “us vs. the problem.”
• Practice slowing conversations down, pausing to self-regulate, and affirming unity (“We got this”).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Viviana, on scarcity and self-reliance:

  “As the eldest daughter…hyper independent…embarrassing to ask for help because it would just make me feel like I failed.” (A, 16:37)

• Javi, on loving through differences:

  “I understand, but not really, and I’m here for you.” (C, 09:50)

• Srila, on breakthrough moments:

  “Viviana, you had to break the dam. It’s like once the dam broke though, everything just flowed.” (B, 20:07)

• Viviana, about generational healing:

  “I feel really bad for [young me]…all of the financial and emotional stress…fell on young me…I never want any child to feel like that.” (A, 29:44)

• Sarah Close, on changing the narrative:

  “It’s not about the money. It’s about our sense of belonging in the world, our sense of connection to ourself and to others, our sense of safety.” (D, 40:32)

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Key Timestamps

• 04:22 – Viviana’s first awareness of being low-income; family context
• 07:38 – Childhood promises to parents; sense of responsibility
• 12:45–14:00 – Viviana’s admission of debt to Javi; opening up
• 16:37 – Why it took two years to be honest about money struggles
• 19:04 – Shift to honest, collaborative financial conversations
• 20:32 – Hardest conversations: quitting job, prenup
• 27:48 – Advice: patience, emotional work of breaking cycles
• 29:44 – Healing for the “inner child”; desire not to repeat cycles
• 35:40 – Sarah Close: the impact of ongoing stress on children’s psychology
• 41:52 – Psychological link between money, belonging, and survival
• 57:22 – Therapist’s key insight: arguments aren’t about dollars, but their meaning

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Actionable Takeaways & Pearls of Wisdom

• For Individuals:
  • Healing money trauma is a process; be patient and compassionate toward yourself.
  • Reflect: Are my attitudes toward money and help rooted in old fears?
• For Couples:
  • Start honest money conversations, even when afraid or ashamed—secrecy is heavier than openness.
  • Recognize and value what each partner brings; differences can be strengths.
  • Learn each other’s “money stories.”
  • Move from “me vs. you” to “us vs. the problem”—affirm unity.
• From the Therapist:
  • Money issues in adulthood are rooted in childhood experiences of safety, worth, and belonging.
  • True healing requires compassion—for our partner, our “inner child,” and ourselves.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rich, relatable exploration of how experiences of poverty shape adult relationships and internal narratives, and how courage, honesty, and therapeutic support can help rewrite those scripts. Whether you’ve faced similar struggles or are partnering across class lines, the episode stands as a powerful reminder: you are not alone, and there is a way forward—together.

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Transcript

[A]

It was a secret for a really long time. I never told him that I was struggling financially and it wasn't until maybe two years in where I told him. Hey, I really need to talk to you about something. I'm super embarrassed about it, but I just want to be open and honest with you and I am in a lot of credit card debt. Hey, can I talk to you about something?

[B]

I wish you knew. I wish you knew how lonely menopause felt.

[C]

I wish you knew why it's so hard for men to share their feelings.

[A]

I wish you knew what it was

[B]

like growing up in a low income family.

[A]

I wish you knew how hard it was not having a college degree.

[B]

I wish you knew what it's like to be me. Welcome back to Mind if We Talk where you get to be the fly on the wall for many therapy sessions and learn some mental health tips in the process. I'm Cyrila Roy Green, a licensed mental health counselor with BetterHelp with over 19 years experience and your friendly guide for season two. This season is all about bringing people together who see the world a little differently and who want to understand one another better. In each episode, I'll be sitting down with two people who've agreed to have a real vulnerable conversation. No subject is off limits. We'll be diving into everything from grief to menopause to caregiving. And just like last season, after each mini therapy session, we'll spend the second half of our episodes sitting down with an expert to break down what we heard and how you might apply it to your own life. Today, to kick off our season, we're talking about what it's like to grow up low income and the lasting implications it can have. See, here's the thing. Money isn't just about numbers. It's the leading cause of stress for people everywhere and can contribute to anxiety and even depression. While a lot of us don't often talk very directly about social class, it shapes us more than we realize. Research shows that most people tend to partner with someone who grew up in a similar financial environment. When that happens, couples often share unspoken assumptions about spending, saving and what normal looks like. But when two people come from different class backgrounds, those assumptions don't always match. And that can create tension. So what happens when two people love each other but carry very different money stories? Today we're speaking with Viviana Vasquez, a financial educator and influencer. Also joining the conversation is her husband, Javi. The two met in college. They were both first generation students, but their childhood experiences with money were not the same Viviana grew up knowing money was tight. She was aware of her parents financial stress from a young age and as the eldest daughter, she felt a sense of responsibility to help. Javi's parents were also immigrants, but he describes his upbringing as more solidly middle class. When he and Viviana began dating, those differences were weren't immediately apparent. For nearly two years, Viviana kept her financial struggles to herself. Not because she didn't trust Javi, but because she was embarrassed. She was worried about being judged. When she finally told him, it opened up a much bigger conversation. Not just about credit card debt, but about childhood experiences, expectations, fear, and what partnership really means. Later in our episode, I'll sit down with licensed therapist Sarah Close from BetterHelp to explore how growing up low income can shape the nervous system, how financial shame shows up in relationships, and what can help couples move from secrecy and defensiveness toward collaboration and trust. Let's get to talking. Viana Habi, it's so nice to meet you. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's so exciting. So jumping in and really kind of getting into some of the more nitty gritty of why we're here, right is I want to hear from you, Viviana, what was the money story that you learned as a child?

[A]

I think it was at a very young age I realized that we were low income. My family of five, we lived in Manhattan, but we lived in a very old rent controlled apartment and I was embarrassed of where I lived. So you know, we lived with mice, roaches, plumbing. That was not great. Sometimes we wouldn't have hot water, sometimes we wouldn't have gas. And my parents were stressed very often about money. So I would overhear those conversations and as the eldest child, daughter, that feeling sort of fell on me to resolve for them. So when I was in high school, I had to fill out the FAFSA by myself and that's when I asked my dad for his tax returns. And that's when I realized that we were living below the poverty line. And I guess I always knew, okay, we were low income, but I didn't realize how, to what extent.

[B]

That must have been really hard.

[A]

Yes, it was, but it was normal to me because a lot of my family members were also low income and a lot of my friends were also sort of in the same situation.

[B]

So it was almost like you were living in two worlds, right? There was a normalization of this is how we all live. But then at the same time it sounds like when certain, I guess, points of life presented themselves or even maybe living in Manhattan. It sounds like it created almost a contradiction or confusion of sorts.

[A]

Yes. I felt very confused when I would go to school and a lot of my classmates would be talking about their vacations to Disney or to Europe. And my family and I, we didn't do any of that stuff. We didn't even go to museums or zoos or anything like that. We would go to the park for fun. It was really hard, I would say, going to those schools and being surrounded by kids that were middle class or even upper middle class and not being able to relate to their experiences. So it often felt like I almost didn't belong.

[B]

It was almost like you felt isolated in your experience, growing up around all of that.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. And it wasn't until college that I felt that other people had similar experiences to me growing up and carrying that responsibility of the eldest daughter that I did.

[B]

You know, when you think back of specific memories of what you would say to your parents when you were growing up, when it came to your money ambitions, are there any specific memories that come to mind for you?

[A]

Yeah, I would always tell my mom and my dad whenever they were stressed about money. Cuando yo este grande tolla comprehend. Basically, I would tell them, don't worry, like, when I'm older, I'm going to buy us all a home. I'm going to pay for everything. I'm going to, you know, be able to buy everything that we need and give you guys everything that you deserve.

[B]

Part of me is just hearing that and saying, gosh, you're so kind and what a wonderful thing to think and as a child, to have that awareness and to have that sense of responsibility and being able to say, I don't want you to worry. I got you. I'll get this, I'll fix this. I want to take care of you. You know, that shows an incredible depth of feeling, but also just a maturity, you know.

[A]

So thank you.

[B]

Hats off to you on that one for sure. Because not a lot of people would feel that way or think that way. It takes a lot to be that vulnerable about that. So I appreciate that for sure. So going to pivot for a second and ask you, Javi, you know, when you're hearing Viviana talk about that, you know, and I know as a partner, it can't be easy to hear that. What parts of it feel foreign for you and what are some of the parts that you can relate to?

[C]

We've spoken about this a lot of times and every single time it still, like, brings up a lot of emotions. Like just hearing that almost made me tear up here. I don't necessarily say I can resonate or know how Viv grew up, but I 100% understand, 100% compassionate, no judgment. Whenever she tells me something and I know I didn't grow up that way. I'm just a listener. I can't judge her. I think that played a big role into her wanting to open up to me at the very beginning. I know she was very shy and it took a lot for her to tell me how she grew up. And I think it caught her by her surprise how I didn't judge her. I'm like, hey, I understand, but not really, and I'm here for you.

[B]

I love how you just put that. I understand, but not really, but I'm here for you. Knowing that I don't have to have lived what you've gone through for me to understand and have space for you and accept you as you are 100%.

[C]

It's like, why I love Viv so much is her heart. Like, I can't even imagine being such a young child and telling your parents that those things. Like, I never did that. Like, I didn't have to do that.

[A]

And do you remember in the beginning of our relationship when I was embarrassed to introduce you to my family?

[C]

Yeah, I do remember. It was. It took a couple months. I think at first you kind of gave me a pretty bad excuse as to why you don't want me to meet your parents, But I don't really remember the real reason.

[A]

It was because I had met his family first and I had gone to your family's apartment and I saw they lived in a really clean, organized, nice two bedroom apartment in. In Queens. And I was embarrassed that my family lived in public housing. Especially as a child, I was always kind of embarrassed to have people over or date or just tell people that I was low income because I didn't. I guess I didn't want to reveal that side of me. And so when he confronted me about it and was like, when am I going to meet your parents? I. I maybe made up an excuse. I don't remember. But the real reason was because I didn't want to be judged for my upbringing and my background.

[B]

I think that that the word that comes to mind for me as I'm hearing is like, there's a shame there. You felt the way you were already feeling and you felt that others were gonna look at you with that same lens. Yeah, yeah, there was that piece of getting to know each other and then you became a couple. You know, what was it like to have those first few tough conversations about money as a couple? Like, what was that like?

[A]

When we started dating, we were in college, and we were both working at the same place, and I was on work study. So work study is given to you based on your financial need. And so because I got full financial aid, I was eligible. And then we started dating. And I saw one time I. I saw that he opened his banking app, and I saw that he had maybe 10 or $15,000 saved in his banking account, in his savings account. He was saving up for college because his parents actually asked him to pay for his own education.

[C]

I mean, we went 50. 50.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I remember seeing that number and thinking to myself, wow, this guy is so rich. Like, he has so much money. I am at a negative right now. You know, I'm helping my parents out financially, and I don't even have enough for myself. So it was a secret for a really long time. I would say when we first started dating, you know, we would go out and we would go. We would do 50, 50, or, like, sometimes he would pay, sometimes I would pay. We'd buy each other gifts, we. To weekend trips. And I never told him that I was struggling financially. And it wasn't until maybe two years in where I told him, hey, I really need to talk to you about something. I'm super embarrassed about it, but I just want to be open and honest with you. And I am in a lot of credit card debt, and I'm also, you know, struggling to keep my head above water because my parents need my support, and I also have student loans, and I also have a lot of credit card debt, and my siblings, they're applying to college and need my help, too. So that conversation really started everything else. And he actually was very supportive.

[C]

Yeah. Especially after two years, after knowing how many trips we've done together, how many vacations we've gone together, how many times we've gone out, different activities that we've done. And for her to tell me that was. I don't know, it made me, like, really sad. Well, and proud at the same time, because she. She was. I. I wouldn't have been able to do what she did. Being under so much stress, knowing I have people to take care of. I'm in credit card debt, but with my boyfriend, I wanted to do something fun. I don't know how she did that, which is why when we had that conversation, it was a tough conversation for her to have, but for me, it was a Tough conversation in a different way of having to listen to that. And instead of being, I guess being there for her a little bit more those two years, financially, it was like, oh, wow, I could have done something more to bring down the stress levels in her.

[B]

So there was like an acknowledgement, but then also little bit of guilt sprinkled in there.

[C]

Yeah, 100%.

[B]

You know, I think that that's a really incredible story to share because to take two years to finally allow that, if you will like that secret out. Right. And there must have been a relief with that too. I can imagine. Like, oh, I don't have to carry this anymore kind of a feeling.

[A]

100%. 100%. I remember, you know, I sometimes wouldn't be able to pay for food or go home or pay for the subway. And I was just so embarrassed and also like so stressed. And I hated that I couldn't tell him. Felt like I was keeping something really, really important from him. And so that day I just told him everything and I was really scared. I thought he was going to break up with me or judge me. And he didn't. And he actually was very, very supportive and was like, let's make a plan. Let me take care of things moving forward. Whenever we go out, we're not going to do 50, 50 anymore. Focus on paying off your debt. He said, let me help you pay off your debt. And I told him no, because this is something that I want to do on my own. And he respected that and was just trying to help me in other ways.

[C]

Yeah, I think when we first had that conversation, my thinking was like, what could I have done different or acted different to help her open up A lot earlier, like, was it me that was kind of made her feel like, hey, if I tell him this, he's gonna react a certain way, you know.

[B]

Viviana, why did it take two years, do you think?

[A]

I think it was a mix of me wanting to do everything on my own and trying to dig myself up out of this hole on my own without asking for any help. As the eldest daughter, as for as a first gen, I was so used to being this hyper independent person that it was embarrassing to ask for help because it would just make me feel like I failed. And so I didn't realize how bad it was until I discovered the world of personal finance. And I started educating myself on credit card debt and interest rates and how it really is a cycle and you can get trapped in that cycle. And building wealth, I think, is not something that's taught in schools or Especially not taught in low income homes because there's just a lack of education and knowledge. And so when I discovered that world, I was like, okay, I need to reach out to the people that are in my life that love me and tell them that I'm about to go on this journey and that I want to break the cycle and start building wealth for myself and for them. And. And everybody was super supportive. I think that talking to him about it, he was extremely supportive. I remember we started even changing our lifestyle. We started doing things that were more budget friendly. Usually when I would go over to my parents house, I would pay for food and he would offer to split that cost with me or sometimes even pay for it. And so I really appreciated that.

[C]

Yeah, I think once we both were out of college or at least. Cause I graduated a year earlier and I started off as a teacher, I started to make a lot more money than as a college student. I think that's when I was like, all right, like, let me help out more now that I can.

[B]

You wanted to be her partner from the very beginning?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I can hear that for sure. It's incredible. It sounds like things shifted and rapidly in a good way. Right. How do money conversations sound now?

[C]

Talking about money is just a normal thing for us now. There's no shame, there's no anger in it. It's never you against me, me against you. It's always like, hey, how can we figure this out together?

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna say we are in a very privileged place now. So it definitely looks so different to when we first started dating. And we've worked really hard to get to where we are. We've helped our families out too. And I think that the conversations are really easy to have because of the position that we're in. I think that if we were still struggling financially, they would be way harder. But now we are way more stable. We are actively investing for retirement. We have been able to make some really privileged choices because of the fact that we started having those conversations really, really early on and worked hard to set ourselves up for where we are now.

[B]

I love how you described all of that. And the thing that resonated with me is like, Viviana, you had to break the dam. It's like once the dam broke though, it's like everything just flowed. Not to say it was easy, but more of like, we have to have these talks and let's have those talks because that made life so much easier. It sounds like you both can breathe knowing you have each other's Backs. You have this open communication, and you're on the same page.

[A]

Yeah. I think the last difficult conversation that we had was me quitting my job and fully deciding to rely on him financially, something that I said that I would never, ever do in my life. And here we are. And prior to that, we. I also asked him if he would be comfortable signing a prenup, and we did. And so we've had really hard conversations.

[B]

Very much so. You know, something like a prenup is. Is like a buzzword, right? It can set people off. Like, boom, you know? How did you guys handle that?

[C]

Well, her wanting to quit her corporate job, I've actually been asking her, telling her to quit already, for the past year and a half.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

For a while. So it's been me. I've been like, hey, pursue your dream. I've kind of been all for it 100% of the time. And then the prenup conversation, she actually brought it up to me, and I didn't really know what a prenup was. I never looked one up, never really thought about getting one, but she was really focused in on getting one.

[A]

So before we got married, you know, we realized, like, he has a lot more money than I do because of one. He got a head start with his finances because his parents didn't really need the financial help that my parents needed. And so early on in his career, he was able to invest a lot more than I was, and that helped a lot. And so there was also another part of his wealth that I wanted him to protect as well. So, you know, we came to an agreement, and we decided that everything that we've sort of built independently before the marriage, like, that's separated. But everything that we build together in the marriage is ours. I would rather us decide those terms together and be on the same page about it than have the government decide what happens with our wealth that we worked so hard to build if something does happen in the future. But, yeah, I think that it's been so long since we've had really tough conversations like that where we're disagreeing and really fighting about money.

[C]

I think we've been together almost 10 years. Wow. I can't believe it's almost been a decade together. So, like, we see a lot more eye to eye than before. You know me a lot better. I know you a lot better. So I think how. How we approach the conversation definitely helps on how the conversation unfolds.

[B]

And, Javi, when you. When initially. When you had these more difficult conversations, let's say the first couple of years, really after the second year.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Was when the. It was really. To the meat and potatoes of the. Of the. Of the. Initially, how did you feel having those conversations?

[C]

Yeah, from the very beginning, I was already very much in love with Viv. I was very, very connected to Viv. So I kind of knew, like, hey, this is my partner. And like, no matter what the situation is, like, I'm going to be by her side. So the way I saw it was, why am I going to react negatively right now? To make the situation worse? I was like, let me just be a listener and if I need a follow up or speak to you a little bit more about it, I at least took a second to kind of gather all my thoughts.

[B]

I hear like a protective kind of, if you will, the vibe is like, I want to protect her and I want to protect us.

[C]

Correct, 100%.

[B]

Because I think a lot of times there's this idea of, well, that's my partner, but they're, you know, or I'm in love with this person. But is it really a unit?

[C]

For sure, 100%, yeah.

[A]

And for the longest time, it felt like I was the one who didn't want to be the unit. He was always from the beginning saying how he could help more, and I was always the one saying no. Because growing up, my mom fully relied on my dad and I never wanted that for myself. I saw how much power. I love my dad, but I saw how much power he had by controlling the money in the home. And I wanted everything opposite of that. And so I think that I was a little bit afraid of letting him in fully into my financial world because of that reason. And when I realized that he is very respectful of my independence and wants to see me succeed. And even saying yes to the prenup just shows me that, you know, growing up and seeing how my parents kind of manage money, like that isn't going to happen with us because we've set such a different foundation.

[B]

Yeah, definitely hearing that. And I think it's great that you acknowledge and realize, like, I know where it's coming from for me because I can imagine at one point you didn't like any of that stuff or you had a really hard time accepting all of it or any of it. And yet here you are now we

[A]

talk about it all the time. How amazing it feels to be able to finally let myself feel like I can actually depend on somebody and not be the one that everybody else depends on.

[B]

When you think about money now, are there still any triggers or Moments where you go, ooh, like you still have that kind of like, icky discomfort come up for you.

[A]

Yeah. We were having this conversation the other day, maybe yesterday, about me getting my nails done because we are doing something called the no buy year this year, and we set some rules for ourselves and so we're not really allowed to spend on any wants. And to me, getting my nails done is a want. And Javi thinks it's self care because he knows that getting my beauty stuff done makes me feel good and makes me feel just more confident in myself. And he was encouraging me to go and get my nails done and he was like, we have the money for it. He was just challenging me and making me feel more comfortable with giving myself those little luxuries. And I definitely still struggle with accepting. Accepting that.

[B]

I don't think that that's an unusual experience to have. When self care at one time in your life was a luxury, when the priority was making sure that there was a roof over your head and food on the table. As far as how to be able to look at those difficulties maybe we faced as children with low income and the struggles to build wealth, you know, what would be your pearls of wisdom that you would be able to share?

[C]

I guess my situation, right. Like Viv telling me how she grew up, I would say, like, be patient and be understanding. They might be a specific reason with certain things because of how they grew up. And maybe when they want to open up to you, they will and you'll be able to understand. But patience is definitely required.

[A]

Effy, for me, specifically, the emotional side to overcoming money trauma and also breaking cycles, it is a very difficult thing to be able to change the way that you view money. You could be in a completely different place as an adult than you were as a child and still think the way that you thought about money as a child. And I think that's okay. That's kind of part of the, part of the process when you're the first one in your family to break these generational cycles. And like Javi said, be patient with yourself because overcoming those emotions and kind of shifting your mindset from scarcity to abundance is really, really hard. I'm still struggling with that and gone through therapy. I've been very open about it with Javi, with my friends on social media, and it's going to take years maybe to heal and to feel differently towards money.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. It's a process. You know, Viviana, if there's one thing, just one thing that you maybe have not Already shared with Javi about what it was like for you, a child. You know, what would that be?

[A]

I mean, there's. There's so much that we could. We could go on and on about. But I think about young me a lot. I feel really bad for her because in a way, it felt like she had nobody to guide her or to comfort her. And all of the financial and emotional and even other type of stress that my parents were going through and my family was going through fell on young me. It is something that I revisit often and thinking about the future and expanding family and I don't want. I think my worst nightmare is, like, having a child and having them feel the way that I did. I never want any child to feel like that. And so we often talk about adopting because there's so many kids out there that I imagine are going through similar things that I went through as a child. And I. Knowing how that feels like, I just wish that there was less of that in the world.

[B]

Yeah, that's it. Javi, how do you feel hearing Viviana share that one?

[C]

I love you two. The little girl thing, I don't know if you've ever really expressed that to me or. It's been a while. I do notice that when we do even, like, the smallest of things, we went on a trip and we took a picture with Santa Claus together, and it was like 2:30 years old just taking pictures of Santa Claus. And she was so excited, so happy. So that's where I see that you're saying, like, hey, it's like the little Viv is still. Is still there. So, like, getting. Checking something off that you maybe wanted to do when you were younger. And I'm a little kid inside, so I'm all about the adventures and doing fun, fun things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Love it. Yeah. Healing that past little girl and continuing to be the little boy.

[D]

Right.

[B]

That's still in there, you know, and honoring him and then also helping to heal that little girl that's still in there. Wanting those moments that feel so out of reach, but being able to have them in the now when you can. I think that's really beautiful. And again, I think it really speaks to, like, the beautiful partnership and, you know, love that the two of you have for each other, for sure.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, I didn't expect to need tissues for this.

[B]

Healing tears, you know, really healing tears for sure.

[D]

Right.

[B]

I want to just thank both of you so much.

[D]

Thank you for the opportunity.

[C]

Thank you for having us.

[B]

This is an ad by Better Help in this episode, we're talking about what it's like to grow up low income and how our early experiences with money can shape the way we see ourselves and show up in our relationships. Money conversations can feel incredibly vulnerable. They can bring up shame, fear, or comparison, and that's often why we avoid them. But when we're able to talk about them openly, it can relieve some of the pressure we've been carrying alone. Therapy can help you navigate conversations like these, especially when you're trying to communicate across differences without losing connection. BetterHelp makes it easy to get the help you deserve. Visit betterhelp.com mind if we talk for 10% off? That's betterhelp.com mindifwetalk my conversation with Viviana and Javi left me thinking about the complex, uncomfortable feelings that many of us have when it comes to money. It can be hard to talk about, but as Viviana told us, hiding your financial struggles from loved ones is a heavy burden to bear. Leaning on a partner is not always intuitive, especially when you're used to being the one that other people rely on. Even breaking the barrier of that first conversation can be nerve wracking. But for Javi and Viviana, open ongoing communication has made all the difference. They've been able to reframe their thinking from I've got this to We've got this. Of course, building this type of trust doesn't happen automatically, but. But therapy is a great tool to do this, whether it's helping people work through these tough conversations together or figure out how to bring it up to their partner on their own. Now, to help me unpack my conversation with Viviana and Javi and for more tips on how to approach sensitive money discussions, I sat down with Sarah Close. Sarah is a licensed therapist with BetterHelp. We delved into what's happening psychologically in moments when money activates painful fears or memories. We also answered a couple of listener questions on this topic. If you want to write in to our show, check out BetterHelp's Instagram stories for the latest prompt. You may hear your question in a future episode. Let's dive in.

[D]

Hey girl. Hey, Smela. It's so good to see you.

[B]

Thank you for joining me today. So, kind of diving in here, you know, what do you think happens to a child, you know, on a psychological level, when financial stress is a constant in the home?

[D]

When we're talking about financial trauma, when we're talking about financial stress, the children are picking up on all of those cues, all of that information, the things that are not spoken out loud are often felt. So that sense of stress can really impact a developing nervous system. And young kids can start to learn to put the world into two categories of safe or unsafe. And. And they can really start to live in a kind of hypervigilant state. Definitely can start to cause a lot of sense of, am I safe in this world? Am I enough? I know it can definitely cause some, what we call parentification, where a young kid is going to try to do their best to make everything feel better in the family system or not cause any extra stress for their parents, which is actually them stepping up into a parent role when they're still supposed to be a kid.

[B]

I think you touched on all the main pieces for sure. You know, it made me think of, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Right. We want to feel safe as children. That's a base aspect of that pyramid, right. Where it's like, if I don't feel safe, then all the other steps up to me being able to self actualize and figure out who I am in the larger world is impacted because that one basic step that we need as a foundation is missing. So taking that to the next level, you know, how do we begin separating our present reality from that emotional imprint of scarcity at a young age? Like, how do we separate those two? Or can we?

[D]

The answer is absolutely yes. We can do this work. It can be work. Right? It's not going to be a simple fix. It will continue to come up. The nature of a trigger is that we can't, we can't eliminate all triggers in the world, Especially when we're talking about something as pervasive as money. We can't, we can't go out in the world at all these days without spending money, without seeing money, without seeing the status associated with money. And so if you're finding it difficult because these continue to come up, totally hear you. It's a reality that we're all dealing with. But absolutely, anytime that it comes up, we are able to ask ourselves, does this feel, does this feeling or experience feel younger than I am? And starting with that invitation to explore from a place, like I said, of curiosity as opposed to some of the judgments that can come in, you can really start to just experience the empowerment that comes from just that very simple task of noticing that this is actually a young part of me that's been triggered or activated and I'm running a script that I didn't necessarily choose for myself.

[B]

Right, right. Understanding, like it was something you had to do for survival. You did the best you could with what you had in front of you. And there's almost a layer of self forgiveness that accompanies that a little bit, you know, almost reparenting that inner child. To be able to accept that child like you were a kid. You did the best you could. You couldn't have done more, you couldn't have been more. It's a really powerful thing to be able to get to that place.

[D]

Oh, totally. Which I feel like you took it to that next level of, you know, I like to start with the. You just identify it and then there you try to observe that and acknowledge it without judgment. But then to take it to that level of actually tapping into some compassion and seeing ourselves as this, you know, young person who didn't have a choice in the matter. And they get. Now we get to kind of take them under our wing and see them in love or see ourselves in that sense of love. That's where real healing can happen.

[B]

100%. 100%. You know, do you have any other ideas or thoughts on what it would look like to do this work with a therapist? Because I can imagine that somebody might say, well, that's not something to go to therapy about, but. But could it be? And what would that look like?

[D]

Yes, I absolutely feel like this work is possible and important to do. I think we've talked a little bit already about kind of doing some of that slowing down process. We're really trying to get out of the fight flight, freeze, fawn, trauma response in our brain and try to move more into the parasympathetic, relaxed part of our nervous system, which will allow us to feel safe. And in that mode we can do a lot more healing. But it's really about kind of opening up the conversation to see what are the stories that we're holding about money, about status, about our sense of worth. Because it's never about the money. It's never about the actual number in the bank account. It's always about our sense of belonging in the world, our sense of connection to ourself and to others, our sense of safety. Trying to kind of unpack the layers that are behind those stories. What am I actually saying behind? I'm afraid to talk about money. I feel like I maybe won't belong if I bring this up. I feel ashamed. Those really deep core wounds that we can be carrying.

[B]

Yeah, no, I. That was really incredible, Sarah, what you just said. You know, it's not easy to change that narrative because we have become so. It's become Part of us, and we become a part of it because our narrative tends to support those beliefs that started for us at such a young age. And I think that's the piece right? Is like, does this still serve me and is it helping me or hurting me? You know, when we talk about helpful thoughts versus unhelpful thoughts, what does that look like? And being able to work on that and challenge ourselves around changing that meaning behind it. You know, I think oftentimes in my sessions, I'll say something like, how is that helping you now to believe that about yourself or think that about yourself now that you have some space, space, time, perspective? If you were to go back and look at that, does that still resonate as truth for you or has that truth changed? Right, so I'm going to pivot a little bit. Let's talk a little bit about the sense of belonging, identity. We've already touched on it a bit today. What do you feel happens to a child if they repeatedly feel like, because of money, I don't belong.

[D]

That concept of money and belonging to, especially in a child's mind, that is literally their life or death experience. This is a survival response. As humans, we need to belong in a community, in a family system, in order to survive. And so it can be easy to dismiss some of these comments, especially as we carry them into adulthood, like, oh, that's just my silly childhood thoughts coming up. But what we're really talking about is an actual survival instinct that is being activated. And over, over time, that continued activation, it will just slowly start to ramp up and can snowball into trauma. And it changes our worldview. And so if we have a sense that maybe we don't belong in the world or that because of our status, because of what we have or don't have in our house, that we are not worth it. Those messages, they can really impact the way that we're seeing ourselves in the world. And that can show up in our relationships and the way that we show up at work.

[B]

Yeah, a hundred percent.

[D]

Kids, when children are growing up in a state of stress, a state of chronic stress, they're going to try to help the situation, to try to create peace often. And so, unfortunately, we can't solve the problem of financial woes for our parents. And that's where that trauma piece comes in. Because trauma is really a sense of being out of control of a situation. And so finances, even though the kids are sensitively often feeling that stress, sometimes it's overtly talked about as well. Like, we can't afford that and those messages really land. But when they're in a state where they can't control what's happening, often kids will make it about themselves. And so that sense of I, we don't have enough can become I don't have enough. Because the only thing that we can control often is our own inner world when we're a kid. And so those sensitive kids or those kids who are taking in that information can often end up flipping that script on themselves in order to give themselves a sense of like, well, maybe if I just tell myself that I'm that or I'm not enough, then I can at least keep pushing myself to be better. And that will at least give me this tiny sense like I'm doing something to help the system. Even though of course we know it's kind of a backwards attempt, a hundred percent.

[B]

Speaking of that, actually it's a great point to transition into the next piece, which is when you think about how a person compares themselves at such an early stage of life where they're so impressionable, they're like putty, they're clay. How do you think that informs their perspective and ambition as they get older?

[D]

We've talked a little bit about the potential for kind of perfectionism, like overachieving. I think this can show up in so many ways and they can be quite nuanced and hidden. But I think there are some kind of major characters in this conversation, like, I'm going to do whatever it takes to never put me or my family in a situation just like this. And so we can see kind of maybe like hustle culture, but we can also see that sense of like, hyper independence. I'm never going to rely on anybody. Nobody is dependable. The system failed me. I'm going to prove that I can be entrepreneurial or I can, you know, take care of myself. Never being able to ask for help because we grew up in a household or a system that, you know, help was not there no matter how many times it was asked for. Or maybe our system didn't demonstrate or model that experience of actually asking.

[B]

Right.

[D]

We can also go in a direction of feeling resentful and being kind of collapsed by our story of nothing is possible, so what's the point? And really limit ourselves because we don't believe that it's possible for ourselves.

[B]

Scary to take risks.

[D]

Scary, yes. Risk taking fears, for sure. And maybe those are two sides of an extreme. But then anywhere in the middle, people can fall and things can shift throughout our lives that can kind of trigger us into one or the other.

[B]

Do you think that those, those early I don't belong moments show up in later life, professionally, personally, romantically?

[D]

It could be the case that there's a fear response with our partner when we're talking about maybe making a big investment or, um, how are we going to handle our debts, or maybe it's just a conversation like, can we look at our expenses? You know, that feeling of dread that can come up for a lot of us when we're just being asked to look at our spending for the past month. Right. Like, that sense of, I don't even want to look. If we pause and look at that fear, it could be that if I look at my bank account and I see that I spent more than I have, then I may not be able to make it in the world. I may not be able to have a sense of belonging. I may not exist here in a very real way. And so I think that concept is so deep, and if we are able to peel back the layers and the experiences that we're having, particularly around money, I think it's showing up in a lot of different places.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I agree. It does. It's so. It's like such a blanket, you know, it's just. It applies into so many different areas of our life and it makes us so fearful. You know, like you said, I'm almost afraid to have that conversation because of what it's going to mean or how is my partner going to look at me or how am I going to be perceived? Totally. Why do you think it's so hard for money to get talked about in relationships with partners? Like, you know, I know I go through it and it took me personally a really long time to even have those conversations with my husband. I'm just curious to know your thoughts because I'm wondering if you go through the same thing I go through.

[D]

Oh, so totally. Totally. So it's hilarious because I do this thing in my household where my partner and I about once a month we try to talk about finances. And it started as we're going to get down to, like, spreadsheets and, you know, thinking about actually numbers. But because of how activated I was every time that we just even made the move toward it, now we just have the, like, very light reach, go goal to talk about money on one day of the month because of how activating it is. And like, we all are just carrying that pressure constantly. Right? We're carrying these stories from our past and like, we've talked about extensively today about how much money is tied to worth. Even though this person is somebody who, you know, I care about, obviously enough to spend my life with, to combine some finances with, at the same time, it feels so vulnerable because it's tied to my sense of security in the world. It's tied to possible rejection. If I look, am I going to see some things that I saw in my childhood or while I was growing up that caused me to feel panicky, to feel unsafe? You know, what if we look and we find out that we can't make it? And that sense of belonging, that sense of worth, can be completely activated in those moments? I know for me, I can kind of start, like, pacing and I can get kind of agitated. And those activities, actions, they're actually, you know, trying to communicate something, even though I'm not saying it out loud. And so to be able to practice attunement with our partners and recognize that it's not just about my story here. Am I seeing behavior that's trying to communicate something about this story and my partner? Can we slow this conversation down and just pay attention to the emotional experience that we're having? And if we can't, it's not a good time to talk about it yet, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

But there's still time for building awareness first.

[B]

Yeah. Yep, absolutely. When two people are really different, you know, one has had financial security, has never known what it's like to want, and then you have someone who comes from scarcity and has only ever known that, how can those two people meet in the middle?

[D]

I guess I used to work with couples, I think talking about, like, inviting them to do a practice around writing out their money story can be really, really powerful. I know we've talked about money stories as if maybe it's just a concept that can, you know, people immediately know. But I think there's so much to it that having people go, you know, between sessions, talk to each other and maybe bring to session their identity that was shaped of money growing up, their sense of where. Where it shows up in their lives and how it continues to impact them. Often money is. The conversation is connected to fear and shame. Like, we've talked about a sense of belonging. And so asking our partner, instead of having accusatory responses around, like, oh, I noticed you're hiding things from me, maybe notice there's behaviors that are happening. And like I said earlier, behaviors are communication. And so really being able to try to step out of the accusation or judgment mode and check in with yourself and see if you can get down to the level of what are you Afraid of what? Were you afraid that I would find out? Can we talk about it from this level where it's slowing down? We're at the heart level now. We're not talking about what's on the surface. We're going to figure out the numbers. But right now I just need to check in with your nervous system because I notice this behavior is probably communicating that you're holding onto and acting out something from your childhood. And I say this with a lot of awareness that, you know, sometimes finances, we really are in dire situations and so it can be really hard to access this heart level communication if you're not able to get there because the activation level of the conversation is too dire. And we actually are in a situation where we need to just be focusing on how we're going to get out of this. You're in survival mode and you're not going to get, you're not going to get to this healing depth level right now. But it is possible for you, for sure.

[B]

Do you think that it's possible when two people are coming from, again, different financial backgrounds, different perspectives and that they can develop a strength from that?

[D]

Oh, yes, definitely. That's what a beautiful question. And absolutely, I think any of our differences in a relationship, if we can be mindful of them, there are ways that they can be put together to create balance within a system and make it even more successful. And so the ways that we're different can be absolutely strengths, especially we're talking about something as complicated and pervasive as money. My ability to be miserly and try to save can be matched with my partner's ability to really just feel risky and want to like, invest in things. And we can try to create more harmony and balance for our system to create more stability. And so I think there's a way that we can really try to match our strengths and our weaknesses together, but it takes that ability to acknowledge them. So I might not be very great at saving, for instance, but if I have a partner who maybe saves too much, that ability to acknowledge that this is a weakness of mine, based on my history, based on my money story, and this is a strength of yours. And I want to make sure that we're kind of elevating your strength and maybe diminishing some of my weakness with it. Like those ways of being able to communicate about the ways that we can show up differently around finances but create some sense of harmony. I think there's absolutely wonderful things that can happen, but it does start from that sense of awareness.

[B]

Yep, awareness Acknowledging differences, trying to find that balance and harmony. Where can we meet? In the middle.

[D]

Totally.

[B]

You know, Viviana had said that she never wanted to rely on a man or anyone financially because of what she had experienced and what she'd gone through. And then they made a really big decision around her quitting her job and her spouse taking over, kind of, you know, that financial responsibility. You know, how do you suggest couples navigate those big decisions, especially the ones where there's gender involved, there's a culture piece there.

[D]

I think the bravery that a conversation like that can lead to and her ability to flip that script for herself and allow her to go from a sense of, I'm gonna do everything on my own to I'm going to trust. I'm gonna trust Paul and allow my partner to take over. And. And, I mean, it's so brave. And it's actually, I would imagine her experience could have been very empowered as well, you know, to shift out of that narrative. So those are really tricky conversations to navigate, I think, because money touches on all of the different levels of society and the different aspects of who we are. It's really one of those examples of a time where would probably take a lot of slowing things down and making sure that every step of the way feels safe, that there's room for conversation without judgment. Because I think at every level of the conversation, those stories and parts of our past would probably come out because it doesn't feel safe. We're entering very uncharted territory, right? We're entering. We're entering murky waters of uncertainty when we're having these big shifts. And so to be able to start talking from a place of. I'm going to start this conversation, but if my young part comes out or if I start to notice shame or I start to collapse in on myself or I become really angry, or I start, you know, pacing the floor. Like, there's all these different ways that our bodies and our. Our emotions can communicate that this is becoming too much to really practice grounding techniques, really practice trying to support each other into taking care of ourselves before we continue the conversation. I think those. Those tips. Maybe it sounds kind of elementary to be like, we have to take this really slow, but I think that type of conversation, the slowness is actually connected to our ability to regulate ourselves. And when we're in a relationship, our goal is to get to. I like to call it a regulation shift. I don't know if I trademarked that, but we're trying to get to a situation where we're actually Able to co regulate, which is that concept of, like, if I'm activated, my partner can help me kind of get back into my system, into my body. And so getting back into a more steady rhythm before we're able to actually make any decisions. With couples with systems, anytime that the activation level gets to a certain point, we're not able to actually communicate and continue that conversation. So, yeah, I think I just wanted to highlight that. That's incredible. A great example of people who are able to notice that maybe this is exactly opposite of what they've ever imagined for themselves culturally. They didn't see that as a priority. They didn't see, maybe in a gendered sense, like you mentioned, maybe she had put a lot of pressure on herself to be able to do it all her own, Be kind of like Wonder Woman and take care of things. And then to be able to ask for help, especially from a man, maybe in this situation can be completely triggering because it's the opposite of maybe the story that she had for herself. But you mentioned a good thing early on, which is the question is like, is this still serving? Is this still serving me? Does this whole experience of I don't want to be taken care of by a man, does that whole experience have to be true?

[A]

Right.

[D]

Is it true for me right now? Is it, Can I be taken care of in other ways? Can I take care of myself in other ways? Can I still maintain a sense of independence in these other aspects of my life?

[B]

I love that you just said that. Can I take care of myself in other ways? Because we are so like, oh, that's the only way I can define myself. Or that's the main way, but how can I take care of myself in other ways? If you were to have like one takeaway, what can it look like to go from me versus you to us versus the problem?

[D]

Maybe the concise way I like to think about this is that you're not fighting about dollars, you're fighting about what the dollars mean. And so anytime you can remember that, like, have that in your back pocket when you go toward having a financial conversation, the emotions that are coming up, they're not actually about the numbers that I'm seeing. Even though our brain would love that. I mean, it would be wonderful if we could, like, have that formula. It's actually just about the material world, that these are the issues we're having. But in reality, there's a huge amount of story that's there. And so that ability to be able to notice that this is meaning that has been imbued on the sense of money that I'm carrying with me as opposed to this is, you know, this is about my partner. I'm accusing him of spending all of our money. This is about us not having enough, et cetera.

[B]

You know, came to mind. Having key phrases to help ground us, having like almost like self affirmations, but like couple affirmations. My favorite thing to say is we got this. I had to trade the I for the we.

[D]

I love that. Yeah.

[B]

You know, and that really helped because, you know, that there is a neuroplasticity piece to this too, is like we have to change the narrative. And saying it out loud reinforces it in our brain to be able to say no, it's us. And I think when, once we shift that thinking and remind each other, I think that's when we see that success for sure. Yeah. Thanks so much for, for joining me today, Sarah. This was, you know, incredible, incredible conversation. So I want to thank you so much for being here today and joining us.

[D]

Thank you so much. Yeah, it was delightful to spend the time with you talking about this topic that I think we could probably spend all day on and never get to the bottom of it. So appreciate it. I'm going to go maybe take some deep breaths because I feel activated after talking about money.

[B]

You know what, I think I'm going to do the same. I want to give a big thank you to BetterHelp for their passion for this project and for giving us a platform to champion the well being in all of us. Mind if we Talk is produced by Acast Creative Studios in collaboration with Better Help and hosted by me, Srila Roy Greene. If you like what you just heard, drop us a review in Spotify or Apple podcasts and and share the episode with your friends. Maybe one of our topics will help someone in your life and remember your happiness matters. Mind if we Talk is intended for entertainment and education, not for mental health diagnosis or medical advice.