← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2494: Three Reasons Why Staying In Shape Is Easier Than Getting Into Shape (Listener Live Coaching)
01:51:28
In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: Three reasons why staying in shape is easier than getting into shape. (2:09) The first lesson in understanding women. (21:27) The cost...
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- [00:00]
Mandy
If you love chilling mysteries, unsolved cases and a touch of mom style humor, Moms and Mysteries is the podcast you've been searching for. Hey guys, I'm Mandy.
- [00:09]
Melissa
And I'm Melissa.
- [00:10]
Mandy
Join us every Tuesday for Moms and.
- [00:12]
Melissa
Mysteries, your gateway to gripping, well researched true crime stories.
- [00:16]
Mandy
Each week we deep dive into a.
- [00:18]
Melissa
Variety of mind boggling cases as we.
- [00:20]
Mandy
Shed light on everything from heists to whodunits.
- [00:23]
Melissa
We're your go to podcast for Mysteries.
- [00:25]
Mandy
With a motherly touch. Subscribe now to Moms and Mysteries. Wherever you get your podcast, if you.
- [00:30]
Sal DeStefano
Want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews.
- [00:43]
Mandy
You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we answered live callers questions. People called in, we got to help them out on air. But this was after our intro. Today's intro is 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness and current events, we bring up scientific studies, talk about our family lives. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us your question@liveindpumpmedia.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. Our first one is Plunge. This is cold water therapy for your home. It's filtered, it's a beautiful tub. You fill it once, you leave it alone. It's ready to go. Jump in pre workout. It's the best way to use it, but you can actually use it throughout the day. Boosts your immune system, reduces inflammation, gives you those feel good neurochemicals. Anyway, go check them out. Get yourself a discount. Go to plunge.com, use the code mind pump. Get $150 off. This episode is also brought to you by Eight Sleep. This is the world's most sophisticated sleep system. Controls the temperature of your bed, monitors your sleep and adjusts with AI technology. And if you go to eightsleep.com mindpump and you use the code Mind Pump, you can get up to $350 off. Also two days left for our brand new Maps 15 Performance Launch workout 15 minutes a day. Build muscle, burn body fat with an athletic minded workout program. Get $20 off the initial price with the code 15P launch. You also get two free eBooks. You get a free workout program, a landmine workout program that's 30 days long, that's included and you get a seven day overtraining rescue guide that's also included for free. If you're interested, here's what you do. Go to 15performance.com, use the code 15plaunch. That gets you $20 off, plus the 30 day landmine workout, plus the seven day overtraining rescue guide. Go check it out. Getting in shape, building muscle, looking great. It's definitely difficult. But here's the good news. Staying in shape can actually be a lot easier. It's totally true. There's three reasons why staying in shape is far easier than getting into shape.
- [02:56]
Adam Schafer
Ooh, yeah, yeah.
- [02:57]
Melissa
I want to. I want to start a movement. It's like getting fit when. Getting fit when you're older or being fit when you're older is easier. I want to start saying something that comes off controversial instead of it being always negative, like, I'm getting older because it's not true. No, I mean, if you've never worked out in your life and you get started at 50 years old, of course it's harder. Right, right. Than it would have been if you started at 20 years old. That's that.
- [03:21]
Mandy
But that's not to say that your body won't respond.
- [03:23]
Melissa
That's right. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But if you have, and I'm not even, I'm not even pointing out the fitness fanatic, but if you were somebody who sporadically, more consistently than not, but sporadically lifted weights through your teenage, young 20s and 30s, if you've built any muscle. That's right, staying fit and being fit as you age, as you get older is easier. It is not harder.
- [03:50]
Mandy
The data on this now is clear. We witnessed this, okay, Managing gyms and training clients and training trainers and coaches. We saw this, right? When you train that client, you had that member that had been consistent for years and years and years, and they'd come in and they're in their 60s or 70s, and you'd watch them work out and they're consistent. Be like, man, that person looks incredibly fit. Or you have that relative that had developed, you know, muscles from whatever job they did for years and years, but they stopped. Like, why does my uncle still have massive calves? He stopped being a mail carrier decades ago or whatever. Or my other uncle who was a mechanic. His forearms are still like, what's going on? Well, the data on this is now pretty clear. The amount of training volume that is required to, to keep muscle is significantly, substantially lower than is what is required to build that muscle. Some studies show like 1/9 the volume. 1/9. Other studies show something like 1/3 or 1/5. Nonetheless, it's significantly less. In other words, if you work out three days a week consistently and gain 10 pounds of muscle and then you're like, you know, I just want to keep 10 pounds of muscle one day a week. We'll do it.
- [04:58]
Adam Schafer
In other words, it's pivotable.
- [05:01]
Mandy
Stop. You said that a few times the last episode. I didn't say anything to your answer.
- [05:05]
Adam Schafer
Somebody should needs to say something.
- [05:07]
Mandy
No, no.
- [05:08]
Melissa
Call me out. Somebody else on here.
- [05:09]
Mandy
I don't want. I left it there.
- [05:11]
Adam Schafer
Captain tongue tie over here.
- [05:13]
Melissa
No, but it's blended in with the next word. That's what I do.
- [05:16]
Mandy
Less. So I'll, I'll use another. Other data to kind of support this. Right. There is a. A measur, measurable amount of muscle loss that happens as people age when they're sedentary. So when you're sedentary, I think it's after the age of 30, for every decade, you lose like 5 to 10% of your muscle mass or something like that. I don't remember the exact number, but it's a measurable amount and it compounds the amount of strength training that is required to just stop that. You're not trying to build muscle. You just. You just want to stop. The muscle loss that happens with getting older is something like one workout every two weeks. Yeah.
- [05:49]
Adam Schafer
It's crazy.
- [05:49]
Mandy
Yeah. So if you take the average person and they're like, look, I don't want. I don't care about being fit. I really don't care about building muscle, burning body fat. I just don't want to lose muscle as I get older. I just don't want to lose muscle as I get in my 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s. They can literally work out one day every two weeks or so, and they'll stop that from happening. That's how amazing it is. Or at least the effects and benefits of strength. That's not to say you won't lack the health benefits. It's healthy to move every single day. So I'm not saying that it's ideal, but to keep some of these results requires so much less. And. And the what the number one reason is it just takes less volume. Way less volume.
- [06:30]
Adam Schafer
I'm thinking about this as my youngest is really getting into fitness and wanting to lift with me now. And it's like I have to introduce the fundamentals and just stick with the fundamentals, sharpen the fundamentals and not get overzealous in terms. I'm like, I get excited. I'm like, oh, maybe I'LL teach him this. I'm like, no, three things and we're just sticking with that. And like we're going to try and sharpen and refine that because that's going to carry him well into our age and beyond.
- [06:58]
Mandy
And another reason why this is important to communicate is oftentimes the reason why people completely stop is because they can't, they don't have the time or maybe the motivation to maintain what they were doing. So for them in their mind it's like, well, if I can't do my full workout, it's a waste of time. Right? Like I was working out four days a week. Like is it worth it to go in one day a week? I'm just gonna not go. No, no, it's still worth it. You can keep what you built with so much less volume that a little bit goes a long way. And that's the number one reason why.
- [07:30]
Melissa
This is our fault. I really think that the, in the. And I mean that by trainers, coaches, the fitness industry as a whole, we really have over complicated what, what you need to do to be healthy and fit. And it's, it turned into this competitive. Who knows more who's read the latest studies, who's got the more sophisticated programming and diet routine. And I think that we have overwhelmed the, the general population. Sure we might have helped the fitness fanatic gain the competitive edge on how to get a percent more shredded or get a little bit more out of their, their programming or whatever. But the average person that looks at as, you know, exercise or training in the gym is like another job or something. They are not interested in doing whatsoever.
- [08:23]
Mandy
They just want to improve the quality.
- [08:24]
Melissa
Yeah, they just want to be healthy. They want to live, live, live long and healthy and capable to do what they like to do. And that doesn't include going to the gym and lifting weights every day. And so it's it. We've turned it into an in. Either or, you know, either you buy in to this or this isn't for you or it's just like. No, there is, there is actually little things that you can do that can dramatically improve your health and strength. And to your point, just I think about this all the time with Max. Obviously I'm not there yet where we're doing anything, but I've thought about like what would that look like when I introduced to it and I really think that's all I'm going to do is like I'm going to pick a couple movements like the deadlift or the squat and like that's all I'm going to teach. Like, I'm just going to teach that for, like years.
- [09:08]
Adam Schafer
Squat and press.
- [09:09]
Melissa
Yeah, just like, for, like, just keep working on the nuances of it and treat it like I'm teaching him a sport or an art form of something and just get him proficient at that movement. And if I can lay that foundation in his early years, when he gets to the age where he wants to make change for athletics or he wants to change for his body, he wants his body to look, then he'll have that as a foundation. He'll be able to build on that. But that by itself will do so much.
- [09:36]
Mandy
It's funny too, because with other sports you don't necessarily hear that good coaches don't. They know how to communicate it properly. In other words, you go to learn how to box. Like, how many punches are there in boxes? A jab, there's a straight, there's a hook, there's uppercut, there's four. So is the, Is the coach like, well, we've already learned those four yesterday. Let's learn like 10 other. Weird. No, no, you're mastering those four. So what you're saying is totally true. Like, master a few lifts. And also, like, you know, the other part of this is you have a routine. So if you've been going to the gym four days a week, and let's say you spend an hour in the gym, or three days a week, you spend an hour in the gym, you don't have as much time. Just go in there and do a little bit. Just go in there and do a little bit. And you would be surprised how easily, how easy it is to maintain strength and muscle. It's very easy to maintain once you've built it. So keep the routine up. I used to tell my clients this all the time. Just show up, do 10 minutes, 15 minutes and get out. Like, is that really worth it? Yes. And again, the data supports this isn't just what we saw as trainers. The data on this is actually quite clear. A little bit doesn't just go a long way. It's enough. It's enough to keep what you built.
- [10:46]
Melissa
And allow the seasons of your life to dictate your approach of volume and intensity. Meaning there's going to come times when you're on vacation or you have, you know, three months of work being slower than other parts of the work season, or you're going to have time when the kids go off to school and then you're no longer having to watch them all day. Like, let, let Those periods, I'm like, oh, I'm going to sprint right now. This is a great time. I've got the next three months kids are in school or I've got this thing on or, oh, that big huge project I was doing at work is now done. And now I'm back to kind of coasting or easier type of schedule. Hey, now I can pick up the volume. Now I can pick up the intensity of my training and really, you know, pile on and try to make like aggressive moves forward and then, then scale back when it, when it, when you get crazy again. It's just we, we really over complicate what, what it needs to be and what it looks like. It's so far more important to just consistently do something. Even if it's one exercise, it's one thing just continuing and it's. And I, I love the analogy or comparison to investing because you don't always have to go put a hundred thousand dollars in the investment. You know, sometimes you throw 50 bucks.
- [11:56]
Mandy
I love those. I love that analogy because everybody's seen those charts where they're like, if, you know, you buy a coffee every day. Well, if you took that money and put it into this at the age of 20, by the time you're 50, because of compounding interest, right? You know, you have a million dollars and people like, how's that possible? Well, it's compounding interest is.
- [12:13]
Melissa
Or the charts that show if you would have just started this, this little bit when you were 15 or 20 and then 30 and then 40, 50, where it's at.
- [12:20]
Mandy
And that's how exercise works as well. Yes, totally. And the last point I'll make is that getting back into shape from a MUS perspective is far easier because of something called muscle memory. There are changes that happen to your muscle on an epigenetic level that don't go away when you stop exercising. So yes, you build muscle and get stronger when you exercise. And yes, you lose muscle and get weaker when you stop. But something sticks around. There are things that happen to the muscle epigenetically that stay, that allow you to rebuild that muscle again far faster the second time around. This is an evolutionary adaptation system that you're born with. It's called muscle memory. You can look it up. And it's not the kind of muscle memory that helps you remove, remember a movement. It's the muscle memory that allows you to rebuild lost muscle. And it's insanely effective. You know, if it took you a year to gain 15 pounds of muscle and then you lost it all. You could gain that 15 pounds back in a couple months.
- [13:18]
Melissa
Couple months. Weeks, bro.
- [13:20]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [13:20]
Melissa
I, I mean I, I know we've been touting this for a long time, but I feel so, I'm so much more passionate about it after going through this because I honestly didn't know. I mean, I know, I know the power of my story, but I didn't have a number to put to it. I couldn't, I couldn't tell you like, oh, you could do that in a few weeks. But it was very surprising to me what little I had to do to stimulate that growth back. Like, it was not amazing. It was like it, the. I was only doing two exercises a day.
- [13:49]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [13:50]
Melissa
For like five days a week, sometimes four days a week. It was, it was. And I wasn't training to failure. I wasn't like the intensity wasn't even there. It was just like going back.
- [13:59]
Adam Schafer
It was already there.
- [14:00]
Melissa
Yes. My body wanted to put that muscle back on by feeding it properly and stimulating it goes. Oh yeah, we remember this. Yeah. And, and quickly.
- [14:08]
Adam Schafer
And I know the central nervous system has to play a factor in that as well. Because if you think about skills you've learned how to ride a bike, how to play piano, how to do like, you know, you're literally teaching all these motor movements and you're, you're mapping this out and you're refining it, you're improving it and then you step away from it. It's not like that data is just gone. You can, you can tap back into it.
- [14:30]
Mandy
Learn how to play the piano. Don't play it for years and years and years. Relearn how to play it so much faster.
- [14:35]
Melissa
Yes.
- [14:35]
Mandy
Second time.
- [14:35]
Melissa
Look at, look at Mike Tyson throwing it. Doesn't look like he forgot how to throw a punch.
- [14:39]
Mandy
No.
- [14:39]
Melissa
You know, guy's almost 60 years old. Off of fighting for, for a very, very long time. Quickly get right back into it now. Granted his stamina, his endurance.
- [14:48]
Mandy
Yeah. That's not to say that's all he's had.
- [14:50]
Melissa
The same 19 year old killer. But I'll tell you right now, he killed me in that. He still killed me. Killed 99 of the people.
- [14:58]
Mandy
Yeah. Well, let's do this way. He's far better than he would have been had he never done it.
- [15:03]
Melissa
Right.
- [15:03]
Mandy
And so now he's back. Right. I mean speaking of which, you know the. We were Now I think three days left for the maps. 15 per 15 performance.
- [15:11]
Melissa
Did you. I'm staring at your hat. Did you make that for that?
- [15:14]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Did you know he did that this was. Well, no, this was for the advanced logo. But it's. I mean, similar. I wore it in honor of it, but yeah.
- [15:22]
Mandy
Oh, there it is. I realize that.
- [15:23]
Melissa
Yeah. I didn't tell your podcast right now I'm like, wait a second. It's our logo made it for me.
- [15:28]
Mandy
I mean, we created this program because the original Mass 15 was so popular and people just keep coming back to it. So we made a performance version of it, which is the athletic minor one. But where I was going with this little segue is what is included with this is the seven day over training rescue guide. I feel that this guide, which you get it for free with the launch with the mass 15, but later on people probably have to buy it. The reason why I'm bringing this up is I feel like this guide is going to be so valuable for so many people for sure. Because so, you know, all of us, we all. If you're consistent with working out, at some point you start to feel burnt out because you overdid it.
- [16:03]
Adam Schafer
It's inevitable.
- [16:04]
Mandy
Maybe sleep isn't good. You know, things are challenging and oftentimes the recommendation is to like cut way back or to take a week off, which is good recommendation. There's nothing wrong with. That's great. But there's. We've never put anything out that was structured well. What can I do for seven days to accelerate the recovery process? Are there practices with diet, sleep, sunlight, hot cold, contrast supplementation, water that I can do over the next seven days that will ramp up my body's ability to recover and adapt so I can get back to what I love doing. And that's what we did with this. It's literally a seven day, like day one, do this, day two, do this all the way up to day seven and then boom.
- [16:44]
Melissa
This reminds me of when we first wrote Symmetry and it was like that kind of aha moment. Yeah. Because we, you know, every week we. We answer a lot. How many live callers do we normally do? 8 to 12 or whatever like that. A week where we have live callers call in and we're giving the same advice.
- [17:00]
Mandy
Yeah, often.
- [17:01]
Melissa
Yeah. For the longest time we were giving the unilateral advice to people. Right. Who try imbalances. Imbalances. What do I do left to right discrimination.
- [17:07]
Adam Schafer
Where do I get it?
- [17:08]
Melissa
Yeah. And so we would, we would prescribe unilateral training, yet we had nothing specific to that. It was like kind of a aha, duh moment. I feel the same way with the. The recovery guide is just like how many times do we look at and we know as soon as we're reading the question, that person's on there, and we're like, oh, yeah, this person's overdoing it. They need to scale back. And it's like, we always have to give this protocol. It's like, why haven't we written something like that?
- [17:31]
Mandy
There are some things in there that I've done myself. I've done all the things that are in the, all the recommendations in there on myself and on clients. It's all backed by data and of course, anecdote through training clients. But there's one thing in there in particular that I learned as a kid from some of the experienced people in the gym that I worked out in. So when I was a kid, I, you know, I started working out at 14. By the time I was 15, I mean, gyms. I used to ride my bike through a gym and then from then on I was always in gyms. And I had, I mean, I was blessed that a couple times I got mentored by older, experienced lifters in the gym. And what I mean by mentored is I would see them often and then they'd give me advice and, and because they were jacked, they took their advice. When you're.
- [18:12]
Adam Schafer
It still happens, by the way. I know, pretty funny.
- [18:14]
Mandy
Yeah. And I would take their advice and I remember I, I got really sore from a workout once because I used to overdo it all the time and some things don't change, right. But I overdid it a lot when I was a kid and I was, I was, you could see when I'd get up from the bench, I'd walk real funny, stiff. And so there was this older guy that used to lift in there. He's probably 30. I say older, but you know, when you're 16 to 30 year olds, like ancient. Yeah, but he was a super Jack dude. And he's laughing, he's like, what's, why are you walking that way? You know, oh, you know, hammer my legs or whatever. He goes, he goes, you want to recover faster? I said, yeah. And he goes, take a shower. Put really, really hot water on your legs. Do that for like, as hot as you can tolerate, and then do that for 30 seconds and then go to freezing cold water for 30 seconds and then do 30 seconds of hot water, then 30 seconds of, you know, of cold water back and forth. And the way he explained it is the hot water opens up the, the blood vessels, encourages blood flow. Cold water constricts them, squeezes Everything out. So it's like causing the blood and the fluids to pump in and out of the muscle. And. And this is something that I've done ever since because it works remarkably well at reducing soreness. Like, you do that. If you have like a muscle that's hammered and you do this in the shower and you go through five or six cycles of it, it will reduce your soreness by like 50 to 70%. I remember I came out of the shower going like, I barely feel sore anymore. That's one of the things that is in.
- [19:38]
Melissa
I think one of the.
- [19:39]
Mandy
That is in the.
- [19:39]
Melissa
I think one of the more pivotal things that I went through was.
- [19:43]
Adam Schafer
Good job, Adam.
- [19:44]
Melissa
Yeah, Gotcha. That I went through was I used to think that, like, rest, recovery, don't move, don't move.
- [19:53]
Mandy
Yeah.
- [19:53]
Melissa
And not understanding how. How powerful, you know, like mobility and movement to speeding up to facilitate recovery and speed that up was. And so that was the mistake I think I made for a long time was, oh, I'd hammer it so hard until it was so sore.
- [20:09]
Mandy
Go sit on the couch. Yeah.
- [20:10]
Melissa
And then it was just like, legs up.
- [20:12]
Mandy
Yeah.
- [20:12]
Melissa
Rest and eat calories. That was. Yeah, exactly. That was the thought process for me for recovery. And what I think learning how mobility and movement, not intense movement or more training, lifting heavy weights, but movement would facilitate more oxygen, more blood, for more nutrients to the area that's over trained and then facilitate faster recovery.
- [20:39]
Mandy
100% movement. Hot, cold, contrast fluids, sunlight, like, have all been shown to kind of accelerate that. That adaptation. I'll use the word adaptation because recovery is healing, but it also helps with adaptation. And speaking of which, with hot and cold, if you have a cold plunge, it's accept. It's so powerful to go from a sauna to a cold plunge and back, or hot shower, cold plunge and back.
- [21:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [21:05]
Mandy
What I'm talking about in terms of, like facilitating recovery, it is remarkably.
- [21:09]
Adam Schafer
I gotta get that set up at my house. I've done that so many times that, like, yeah, spas. And I love it. It's. It's exhilarating.
- [21:17]
Mandy
It's. Oh, oh, and then you leave and you're like high for like the whole day.
- [21:20]
Adam Schafer
Oh, yeah, it totally gives you an energy bump.
- [21:22]
Mandy
Yeah. No, so. So our partners plunge, advocate for it for pain and for recovery. Where you go in the freezing and then you go in the sauna and then the freezing and then you go in the sauna. It's like one of my favorite. You know, the first time I did that was at. What's that place that you recommend to us.
- [21:37]
Adam Schafer
I was trying to think of that.
- [21:38]
Melissa
That's Starts with Refuge. Refuge.
- [21:40]
Mandy
Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love it. And they have the cold. They have their cold dip, which is freezing.
- [21:44]
Melissa
I wish we could get a partnership with them.
- [21:46]
Adam Schafer
I know. You can walk in the cold little pool.
- [21:49]
Melissa
I mean, having the. Having the plunge is like having your own in the house. But the Refuge is like a resort. Right. So you get a little bit. Yeah, there's a massage therapist there too, so it's a little bit.
- [21:57]
Mandy
Yeah. I gotta tell you guys, this morning, my. My two year old Dahlia, she wakes up so her. You know, I have My four year old, I have my two year old. And they're the best of friends. Sometimes they fight or whatever. But my. My 2 year old has figured out how to be, like. How to be like, stuck up to her older brother and get him to chase her, like to want her affection. Because he'll tease her, he'll take her toy, make her cry. Well, this morning he did something to her. So she's like, I'm just gonna be mad at him, right? So. So. So he was pissed off. I don't remember what he did. He did something to her, got her upset, got them to chill out. So then he went up to her to repair. And my wife does a really good job of communicating grace and repair and all that stuff. So he goes up to her and he goes, you know, I'm sorry, Dalia. And usually she'll be like, you know, okay. And she calls him Susa. She doesn't say his full name. She says susa. And she gives him a hug. Well, this time she goes, no. And he looks at me like. Like, what do I do? I don't think she's ready. And he goes. And he's like panicking. He walks up to her like, d, can I hug you? No. And she walks away. And he's like, what do I do? I'm like, you got to give her time, bro. You can't force it.
- [22:59]
Adam Schafer
His first lesson. Women.
- [23:01]
Mandy
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was trying to help him out. Like, listen, the more you chase, this.
- [23:06]
Melissa
Is never going to change. The more never end, son.
- [23:10]
Mandy
So I go up to him, I'm like, I try to coach him, you know, I'm like, listen, she's not ready, so you got to be okay with that. Because, like, she's like started crying. She doesn't love me. No, no, no.
- [23:19]
Melissa
She's just wait, son, until she tells you. Then she changes her mind in five Minutes, it get harder.
- [23:25]
Mandy
I said, if you keep chasing her.
- [23:26]
Adam Schafer
She'S way more complex.
- [23:27]
Mandy
I said, listen, here's what you do. Just act nice around her and just be cool, and eventually she'll come over to you. But he didn't want to hear it. The whole day, the whole morning's chasing her. Just give me a hug, dog. She's like. Because she sucks her thumb. So she pulls her thumb out. She looks at him. She pulls it out and she goes, no. She puts it back in and walks away. He's, like, devastated. She doesn't love me.
- [23:48]
Adam Schafer
Classic.
- [23:49]
Mandy
I know. It's hilarious, dude. Something sad I got to share with you guys. Well, I don't know if you guys have seen on social media. Have you seen that only fans girl controversy thing that's going around?
- [23:58]
Melissa
The only fans girl there was this girl.
- [23:59]
Mandy
Oh, man, it's so sad, dude.
- [24:01]
Adam Schafer
Not the latest.
- [24:01]
Mandy
Oh, it's so. It's so crushingly sad to see somebody do this themselves. And then the comments afterwards that are piling on. So there's this. And it's all over social media right now. So there was this young woman, Lily Phillips, I think is her name, who she did some. She's an only fans, you know, person or whatever. And she did this challenge where she was going to sleep with a hundred men in 24 hours.
- [24:26]
Adam Schafer
Oh, my God.
- [24:27]
Mandy
So she. In her London apartment, she allowed some of her fans, and I don't know how they qualified. I don't really look into it. I just. Obviously, I saw this after the fact because of what happened. So she had, I guess, her top fans sign up, and they got to all have sex with her for five minutes. So 100 men in 24 hours. And you could, you know, there's interviews of her talking about it, leading up to it, whatever. Then afterwards, they interview her. And this girl, man, I feel so, like, she comes out and you could tell she's, like, psychologically trying to. She's trying to kind of come to terms with what she just did and what's happened. And she's like, you know, I know there were a hundred men, and, you know, I know they're there because it's recorded. She's. I only remember, like, five or ten of them. I mean, she's explaining severe disassociation. She's explaining.
- [25:19]
Melissa
I would imagine you would have to have that to do that, like a severe disassociation. Right. You couldn't be present in that.
- [25:26]
Mandy
She's like, it's not for. She's. And she, like, I Don't recommend it to anyone. And in her eyes, she could tell she's trying not to cry and she looks traumatized. And then later she cries. And that's the video people are sharing. And the reason why I feel terrible, first of all, poor girl made this stupid decision, now has to deal with this trauma that she did to herself for fame or whatever.
- [25:47]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [25:48]
Mandy
The comments afterwards, you know, people are talking about her trauma, what she did to herself. This is what she gets. You know, what she thinks she would happen or whatever. If her dad loved her, she wouldn't have done this. Oh, it's so bad.
- [26:00]
Melissa
Was it so bad? Was it. Was it like a money grab that she charged, like, big money for it and just. She apparently made a ton of Money in that 24 hours.
- [26:07]
Mandy
Apparently. And the thing that's going viral is her post interview, where you could see the trauma on her look, the blank look on her face, and her trying to talk through what the experience was. And she's clearly describing, again, disassociation, describing that she just traumatized herself severely through the whole process. She was talking about how some of the men. She's like, you know, it was really hard. Some of them would try to talk to me, and they would say, you know, I only had three minutes, but I'm supposed to get five minutes. And then she starts choking up like she's gonna cry. And it's like, wow, poor girl, man. What did she do? What did she do to herself? And what gets glamorized in this crazy world?
- [26:47]
Melissa
Well, the. The amount of.
- [26:49]
Mandy
And how some people think it's empowering. What the hell?
- [26:51]
Melissa
The amount of money that's flowing through only fans right now is insane. They compared it to. I think I shared this.
- [26:57]
Mandy
The. More than the NBA, you said?
- [26:58]
Melissa
Yes.
- [26:59]
Adam Schafer
Oh, my God.
- [27:00]
Melissa
Really? They compared the amount of money that's going through Only fans is already.
- [27:03]
Mandy
Money isn't everything. People need to understand this. What do you think's gonna happen?
- [27:07]
Melissa
What's crazy?
- [27:08]
Mandy
If you make millions of dollars basically objectifying yourself, what do you think's gonna happen? You'll be happy. Well, you're not gonna be happy.
- [27:15]
Melissa
What's crazy to me is the power of the free market in the situation, because the NBA is propped up by television and has been around for decades. And I mean, there's a. There's a huge effort for it to be as big as it is. Right? Huge effort. Only fans is literally word of mouth. I mean, there's nobody. There's. I mean, maybe you see some billboards or some Instagram ad. I don't know. I don't, I don't see people advertising the company or literally word of mouth has grown that thing to be this trillion dollar empire already. That is wild. That is wild. And to think that your, your top creators on there are producing more revenue than, than like an NBA.
- [27:59]
Mandy
But think of the mental crazy, the mental gymnastics and how you have to twist yourself to be an only fans person and then to be a person that pays for that and does that also but more so for the person doing.
- [28:14]
Melissa
I mean, do you think it's all bad?
- [28:16]
Mandy
Why? What's the good?
- [28:18]
Melissa
Well, I mean what's the good? Do you, you think that it's. I mean the good could be that somebody, some. Somebody who lives in a rural area could create a following of people that are willing to pay them for their skills. I mean that's all bad.
- [28:32]
Mandy
Yeah, we live in America. You can make money a lot of different ways and yeah, you might make, you might have a better chance of being a millionaire if you're attractive and you have some whatever on only. But is. What do you want all that money for? To be happy. It's not going to make you happy. The Data100 supports this by the way. There's. There's no good for. This is more.
- [28:53]
Melissa
Yeah, it'd be interesting to see how. I mean I'm not on there so I don't know enough about it, but I know that the platform isn't just used for sexual content. Oh, I don't know.
- [29:01]
Mandy
I thought you were referring to just.
- [29:02]
Melissa
No, no, no, that's why that was. My point is I think it's all bad. Yeah. Like there's. And my point is that like you, you, there's people that are, are they.
- [29:09]
Mandy
Just pay for access.
- [29:10]
Melissa
Yeah. To have access to somebody who is on there and you. And they could be in rural Indiana and because of that they now could build a livelihood out there.
- [29:20]
Mandy
I guess it depends what they're offering them would make.
- [29:23]
Melissa
Yeah, that was my, My point is is it all bad? Like, I don't, I don't think it's all. But I mean I definitely think a big portion of it. I think that the sex part is.
- [29:30]
Mandy
What sells the money.
- [29:32]
Melissa
I know.
- [29:32]
Mandy
I mean because when didn't they say for a second they were going to ban it and they could.
- [29:34]
Melissa
Yeah, yeah, exactly. When they were trying to go public, they, you know, trying to make.
- [29:39]
Adam Schafer
But then I think that's just a publicity stunt.
- [29:41]
Mandy
It could have been so.
- [29:42]
Melissa
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that could have been actually that have been a brilliant way to. To market it like that. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know where it's. I mean, and is it, it's. Is it up to us as parents? Right? Like that's it. That's my job is to make sure that your son or daughter doesn't end up on.
- [29:58]
Mandy
On Friday.
- [29:59]
Melissa
To me, it really is just. It's the modern day stripper comment. It's like, yeah, right, the old joke, the old adage of, you know, your one job as a dad is to keep your daughter off the pole.
- [30:08]
Adam Schafer
Y. It's replaced that more than one job.
- [30:13]
Melissa
I mean, it's way more than that. Right, right. But I mean it, it, it simplifies. It's like, you know, your one thing is to, to, you know, love your daughter, love your, your child enough to where they. That's not an an.
- [30:24]
Mandy
You know, it sucks because the, the world places certain things. Like it's not that money isn't important, but it places it in the wrong order of what's. How important it is. And so if you talk to the average person about getting rich or getting lots of money, they, they, they give it more value than it actually has to the point where, hey, how, how much would someone have to pay you to do what. How many times they've heard that, right? Would you do this for a billion dollars? And everybody's like, yeah, I would. It would. It won't give. It's not going to give you what it think it will. So people are selling their souls for fame and money. For fame and money, they're selling their souls and, and they're coming back and finding out the hard way.
- [31:09]
Adam Schafer
It's a constant temptation, you know.
- [31:11]
Mandy
Well, I'll give you a great example how we glorify celebrities and musicians who commit suicide in their 20s as great artists. This great, like Marilyn Monroe, she's my icon, you know, Kurt Cobain, icon so tormented they kill themselves.
- [31:28]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [31:28]
Mandy
Why are we, why are we looking at them like, like people we should idolize? We should actually look them as examples of how, how those things are not valuable.
- [31:37]
Melissa
We're drawn, we're drawn to the.
- [31:38]
Adam Schafer
If you can remove the person from the art.
- [31:40]
Melissa
But that's the hard part, right? We're drawn, we're drawn to. As humans to see this, this incredible expression of these, these capabilities that they have. Right. Like the use the art, the, the. It's what Kurt Cobain could do. Right. With the guitar and on the microphone.
- [31:55]
Mandy
Sure.
- [31:55]
Melissa
What John Morant can do with a basketball on the court. Right. It's like. It's not. Unfortunately, it's not about their character.
- [32:02]
Mandy
But have you noticed how.
- [32:03]
Melissa
On to that.
- [32:04]
Mandy
But have you noticed oftentimes the ones that have a tragic ending are iconicized higher or more.
- [32:12]
Melissa
Sure.
- [32:13]
Mandy
Other artists.
- [32:13]
Melissa
Sure, sure.
- [32:14]
Mandy
It's crazy.
- [32:15]
Melissa
I think that's a weird. I think. I think the. The faster and the higher you rise, the. The bigger the fall and the quicker the drop off.
- [32:23]
Mandy
Yeah. The temptation for all that.
- [32:24]
Melissa
Because how quickly when you're. When you're somebody. Marilyn Monroe example, or those people that you're saying, like they reach a level of access and success and money and power. So much faster than anybody else.
- [32:38]
Mandy
Not ready.
- [32:38]
Melissa
Yeah. And. And then you get all of it and then you have this crazy like. Oh my God, this is.
- [32:44]
Adam Schafer
Well, let me ask you interesting because, I mean, don't you feel like it's shifting a bit in terms of. Because this. The celebrity itself is losing their grip with like influence in terms of.
- [32:55]
Mandy
Over the tradition.
- [32:57]
Adam Schafer
The traditional celebrity who was that like rise to fame and like excess and everything was promoted excess. But I just feel like, I mean, media had a huge hand in that.
- [33:07]
Melissa
But I. I feel like it's exactly the same. It's just now social media.
- [33:10]
Mandy
Yeah. I mean, as far as that's.
- [33:11]
Melissa
It's the media. The medium has just changed and maybe arguably there's more of them. Right. I mean.
- [33:15]
Mandy
Well, let me ask.
- [33:16]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [33:16]
Adam Schafer
YouTube. Let's be new YouTube stars. Crazy.
- [33:19]
Mandy
Let's be brutally honest. Let's be brutally honest. Imagine had we started mind pump at 20 and achieve the level of success we did in our mid-20s.
- [33:26]
Melissa
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't been ready.
- [33:27]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [33:27]
Adam Schafer
We talk about that a lot. We would have been crazy.
- [33:29]
Mandy
Oh, it would have been not good. It would. Would not have lasted that for sure.
- [33:33]
Adam Schafer
It's. Yeah, we would have on some level.
- [33:35]
Melissa
That's the scary part is that you would have thought it was all at that time. Oh yeah, it would have been. You would have been soaking it all up thinking it is and it would.
- [33:42]
Mandy
Have turned out all bad.
- [33:43]
Adam Schafer
There just need to be competitive ways to. To get to the success. And I think, like, it's just not portrayed enough.
- [33:50]
Mandy
What's not portrayed enough is what real success is.
- [33:53]
Melissa
This is why the parenting and the leadership part is so important. Because there's nothing you like, let's say. Let's take your example using with us in our 20s, like there's nothing that you Te you technically are going to say that is going to. Would have convinced me that I I don't want it or I don't like it. But what if I had good mentors, a good father telling me then as soon as the, the remorse or the depression or anything started to creep in.
- [34:17]
Mandy
You'D have that person, you would have.
- [34:18]
Melissa
That person that was telling you had already told you that you could either turn to or you go like, oh, my dad told me this is how I was going to feel. And so maybe he was right this whole time. And then you can make a quick pivot. I think what happens is so many of these, these kids, celebrities or people that get that don't have someone per se like that, or they didn't have a good father figure and you know that. And then they had this massive rise they keep chasing. No, and, and of course their peers are cheering them on. Oh yeah, a hundred dudes, that'd be crazy. You'll make $2 million in a day. Like that's nuts. Like, you know, they're, they're cheering them on to do it. They're not telling them like, yeah, you probably don't want to do that. You know, you're gonna feel this way. And I mean I'm, or at least I'm assuming that they don't have that. And I imagine that if you have a good person like that in your life, that even if you choose to go figure it out for yourself and you still go that path, I feel like there's hope for you, you know, pivot out.
- [35:14]
Mandy
It just goes to show how the broken the world is. It's like, it's even like this with fitness. How happy people think they will be when they get six pack abs. Like if I looked like that solve all the problems. I'm going to be so happy. No, you won't. And there's data to support you won't. You actually won't. Your happiness won't improve. You probably actually be less happy chasing that very difficult thing of getting the six pack abs or whatever. Yeah, but you know, but what's advertised and what we believe is just God.
- [35:41]
Adam Schafer
Again, completely different topic. But on what we believe.
- [35:45]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [35:46]
Adam Schafer
40% of people according to this poll believe that we existed at the same time as dinosaurs.
- [35:54]
Mandy
I don't know if you knew that.
- [35:56]
Melissa
Say that again. 40% of people, 40% of people that.
- [35:59]
Adam Schafer
Filled out this, this survey, I don't know where it was, but believed that we existed at the same time as dinosaurs. And so here's one, Food for thought. Have you seen Gobekli Tepe?
- [36:11]
Mandy
Yes. I was just gonna say this have you seen the.
- [36:13]
Adam Schafer
So there's etched carvings of actual brontosaurus.
- [36:18]
Melissa
Next to human action.
- [36:20]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And like a little raptor. And like, it's interesting because that they're, they're finding that actually predates a lot of these ancient civilizations before that, like in even Egypt. And so it's just kind of an interesting thought is like, do we really think. Because it's always been told to us.
- [36:36]
Mandy
That it's carbon dating. Adam.
- [36:38]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, they were, they, they, they were here before us. Right.
- [36:41]
Mandy
I know those, those are. If you've seen those etchings, there's like stegosaurus. There's like a brontosaurus, like clearly. And it's walking with humans. It's like, how do they know how.
- [36:50]
Adam Schafer
They going to come up with randomly.
- [36:52]
Mandy
I showed you one today of an Egyptian hieroglyphic. And it's a. It's like an Egyptian God with an erection. And it shows sperm cells. Yeah, sperm cells. Like, how could they know what sperm cells show?
- [37:06]
Melissa
Sperm cells.
- [37:07]
Mandy
They etched it into little tail. Look up Egyptian hieroglyphic wild sperm cells. Like, how would they know what without a microscope, how would they know what sperm cells look like? And it's distinctly a sperm cell and it's literally coming out of the dude's erect. I mean, so you know that they're making the connection. It's not like a accidental like, oh, it could be a man.
- [37:26]
Adam Schafer
We studied this.
- [37:27]
Mandy
Yeah.
- [37:28]
Adam Schafer
A good five minutes.
- [37:29]
Melissa
Yeah, but there's no way somebody's trolling here and they like. Somebody just like 50 years ago went over and drew that.
- [37:35]
Adam Schafer
So it's just etching in a little. Throwing me off. Just to throw you off the trail.
- [37:43]
Mandy
It's an ancient justice. Yeah, I know, it's pretty wild. Pretty.
- [37:50]
Melissa
Well, sprinkle some old carbon on it. Throw you guys really off. This is a million years old.
- [37:54]
Adam Schafer
I love it because they're always like, this is the fertility gu.
- [37:56]
Mandy
God, you know, Huge.
- [38:00]
Melissa
What is that? He's always got this, this crazy looking huge.
- [38:03]
Adam Schafer
And he's just sitting there like, yeah, that God, wasn't that.
- [38:08]
Mandy
Isn't that that big ancient, like it's like on a hill or something. You can't see it unless you're from a plane.
- [38:14]
Melissa
That was on that Graham Hancock one that just.
- [38:16]
Adam Schafer
I know, that's funny that. That's. That's the fun side of history.
- [38:19]
Mandy
Ancient teenagers, you know what I mean?
- [38:21]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [38:21]
Mandy
Drew this on the side of a hill.
- [38:23]
Adam Schafer
You were juvenile even back then. That's the thing.
- [38:25]
Mandy
Did you find it, Doug?
- [38:26]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah, I'm Looking for it.
- [38:27]
Mandy
Yeah. All right.
- [38:28]
Melissa
I mean, I have something that was actually kind of. I got it here. Oh, let's see it. Doug.
- [38:31]
Mandy
Yeah. No, no, it's, it's, it's, it's legit. Watch, watch this.
- [38:37]
Adam Schafer
I mean, carbon date it. Atom and, and to cross check us, but there it is.
- [38:41]
Mandy
There it is. Look at that.
- [38:43]
Adam Schafer
Oh, wow.
- [38:43]
Melissa
That's okay.
- [38:44]
Mandy
Like that's a sperm cell. There's a wild. You recognize the thing on the side there? Adam?
- [38:49]
Melissa
Yeah, it's.
- [38:50]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, it's.
- [38:50]
Mandy
Look at that.
- [38:51]
Melissa
Interesting.
- [38:52]
Mandy
Isn't that weird? How did they know?
- [38:55]
Melissa
And he's circumcised.
- [38:56]
Mandy
Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, maybe.
- [38:59]
Melissa
Maybe not. Maybe not.
- [39:00]
Adam Schafer
Maybe.
- [39:00]
Melissa
It could be. It could be. You're right.
- [39:02]
Adam Schafer
Extended.
- [39:04]
Mandy
I don't know if anyone.
- [39:05]
Adam Schafer
Stretched out.
- [39:06]
Mandy
Let me tell you what happened. Yeah, that situation.
- [39:09]
Adam Schafer
And there's an eyeball looking at the whole thing.
- [39:11]
Mandy
So.
- [39:12]
Sal DeStefano
And then there's this convex lens.
- [39:14]
Melissa
What is the interpretation?
- [39:16]
Mandy
What do you mean? It's semen and a sperm cell and the convex lens.
- [39:19]
Adam Schafer
Like they're saying it's a magnifying hol.
- [39:22]
Mandy
Like an eye looking through a convex lens to see the sperm cell.
- [39:26]
Adam Schafer
What if they had a magnifying what?
- [39:27]
Melissa
Yeah, is that the. Is that.
- [39:28]
Mandy
No, you can't. It's a sperm cell. How do you see that with. You need a microscope?
- [39:31]
Adam Schafer
You can't.
- [39:32]
Melissa
What, what, what is the interpretation of it? Is it got an interpretation?
- [39:36]
Mandy
That's the inter. What do you mean you can't see what it is?
- [39:38]
Melissa
Okay, just erect penis, sperm cell. That's the.
- [39:41]
Mandy
They don't know. They, they. That's the, that's the big.
- [39:43]
Melissa
Yeah, that's what I'm asking. It's like that may like is it a part and is it a part of a bigger.
- [39:48]
Mandy
Yeah, there's a God. There's a guy standing over there. Yeah.
- [39:50]
Adam Schafer
All that stuff's so interesting. Like the Baghdad Battery and all that. They, they found like ancient technologies.
- [39:56]
Mandy
By the way. There are some in some things you would like to see. Adam, that. Because you always make fun of carbon dating. They find these like modern machinery encased in like rocks or, or stone that is supposedly millions of years old. And they're like, how is this possible? And there's other scientists who are like, well, this just goes to show how inaccurate carbon dating can be because of the way that they measure the radioactive isotopes and stuff. Like that's because it's super flawed. This is not a tool in million year old rock. This is a tool.
- [40:24]
Melissa
I remember A long time ago. That's why I've always challenged it or, you know, whatever. Even though I don't have the words to defend my position. I just. I remember learning about that, like how off it was and it was just like. And it wasn't. I remember first learning about it and it wasn't like kind of off. It wasn't like. Yeah, they're like 1% from what it could be. It's like. No, it could be like dramatically. Yeah. Like millions of years off. It's like, wait a second. That's like a lot of room for air. You know what I'm saying?
- [40:50]
Adam Schafer
Oh, it's a big margin.
- [40:52]
Mandy
Speaking of being off. So you didn't know this, Adam, that. That our eight sleep hookup is 350 off you?
- [40:58]
Melissa
No, I didn't know that was a huge.
- [41:00]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I didn't either. I don't know if we've actually said 350.
- [41:03]
Melissa
That's a massive discount.
- [41:04]
Mandy
350 off their. Their. Which. Which device is it? It's their pod 8 sleep. Yeah, the pod 4 ultra pod for ultra $350.
- [41:15]
Melissa
What I'd like to hear from is from our audience because I've had it forever. We were just talking to a friend of ours who we interview, and she was asking about it. I said, I think it's one of the best investments ever. I use it every single day. Huge difference in my sleep. It's been amazing for Katrina and I. What I haven't talked to or met or used myself is the actually full blown system where they had the mattress and the pot. I've just used the pod forever. There's just basically. Which is just. The pod is a mattress sleeve that goes like a. Like a sleeping bag or whatever that goes over the entire mattress. And then it's temperature control where they actually have a full system that is. Not only that, it's also a mattress that actually adjusts.
- [41:55]
Mandy
So it even picks up when you snore.
- [41:57]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [41:57]
Mandy
And it moves.
- [41:58]
Melissa
Yeah, it'll elevate.
- [42:00]
Adam Schafer
I need to get one of those. Yeah.
- [42:01]
Melissa
So I'm curious if. If we have anybody or we know anybody who's actually has the full. The actual full setup and what their. What their take is.
- [42:08]
Mandy
Oh, dude. I got to talk about our friend Mike Matthews. He sent me a test.
- [42:11]
Melissa
I've been talking to Mike lately.
- [42:13]
Mandy
You know, the guy that they have that they're going to be trying for the, the, the. The kid that shot the. Was it. What company? The Luigi Health care insurance company. CEOs. Remember that video.
- [42:24]
Melissa
There was a guy, right?
- [42:25]
Mandy
Yeah. Luigi Mangioni.
- [42:26]
Melissa
Oh, I saw what you. I saw.
- [42:28]
Mandy
And. And they posted his. His reading material.
- [42:31]
Melissa
His. No, his top. His top 10 recommended books on Amazon.
- [42:34]
Mandy
That's right. And one of them was. Was Mike Matthews book.
- [42:37]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [42:39]
Mandy
He's all crap.
- [42:40]
Melissa
Oh, no.
- [42:40]
Mandy
He sends me a text like, damn it.
- [42:42]
Melissa
What? I haven't asked him. I meant to ask him.
- [42:43]
Mandy
Him.
- [42:43]
Melissa
I'm like, hey, how are sales been? Are they going up or are they down? Like, where are they at?
- [42:46]
Mandy
You know what I'm saying?
- [42:46]
Adam Schafer
It's a free advertising area.
- [42:48]
Mandy
The kid was fit. There's pictures of him from Facebook where he's like, with his shirt off and he's jacked, so he's obviously into working out, so it makes sense he would read a fitness book. But Mike texted me to me. He's like, I don't know if this.
- [42:57]
Melissa
Is good or bad.
- [42:57]
Adam Schafer
Oh, no, not the publicity I was going for.
- [43:00]
Mandy
Am I going to sell more books?
- [43:01]
Melissa
That's hilarious. So what is the. You guys are following that way closer than I am.
- [43:06]
Adam Schafer
I'm not.
- [43:07]
Melissa
No, it's not. You're not either. I feel like Doug and Sal have been.
- [43:10]
Mandy
They caught him. He had a manifesto and he had the gun on him and stuff. And then there's a bunch of conspiracy.
- [43:17]
Melissa
I want to know what the conspiracy theorists are saying since they seem to be the more accurate people. Don't tell me. The science. Don't tell me.
- [43:22]
Mandy
Tell me.
- [43:23]
Adam Schafer
Thank you for saying that.
- [43:25]
Mandy
He's an Ivy League grad, high intelligence. Like, he's never had any run ins with the. With the police. Never any red flags. This is the conspiracy theory, right? Never had any red flags psychologically, like, upstanding citizen does. Well, this and that, and he's supposedly kills this CEO and on his way there, flirts with some barista on camera. And then afterwards goes back, goes to a McDonald's with the gun and his manifesto, gets on his laptop and waits for the police to arrive. And so, like, this makes no sense that he would. That stupid, that brazen.
- [44:01]
Adam Schafer
That's literally how it transpired.
- [44:03]
Mandy
That's the conspiracy theory. What I find interesting is, is, is this is how shitty. This makes me sad. Some people on social media are labeling him a hero for killing an insurance company CEO because insurance companies charge so much.
- [44:16]
Melissa
Why? Why is weird. Weird murders and things happen all the time, unfortunately. Why? Why is this getting so much publicity? What is it about this guy?
- [44:25]
Mandy
It was on camera. He did it with the silencer. And it was. I mean, it Was.
- [44:29]
Melissa
Wait a second, it was on camera. Why would there be conspiracy?
- [44:31]
Mandy
Then he went to camp when he was on camera, he had a hoodie on and a mask so you can't see.
- [44:37]
Adam Schafer
I remember somebody actually showed me. The one thing I saw was like his eyebrows. So we showed different pictures.
- [44:43]
Mandy
Yeah, they zoom in on his eyebrows and they're spaced apart in the video where, you know. And then when they caught him and they're like, that doesn't make sense. He has a unibrow on one. So conspiracy theorists are like, it's a psyop. But like, why is the psyop?
- [44:58]
Melissa
Yeah, why. Yeah, that's the part.
- [44:59]
Adam Schafer
What's the motivation?
- [45:00]
Melissa
Yeah, that's.
- [45:01]
Mandy
I guess the conspiracy is that the, the CEO was execut by some people in power and that now he's a.
- [45:07]
Adam Schafer
Security because he'd be questioned or something.
- [45:09]
Mandy
I have no idea. I have no idea.
- [45:11]
Adam Schafer
I don't know.
- [45:12]
Melissa
You would think then that guy, if he's a scapegoat, that guy would. Did he. So he wrote it in his manifesto and is he dead now too?
- [45:17]
Mandy
No, they caught him.
- [45:18]
Melissa
Oh, so he's like. So what is he saying?
- [45:20]
Mandy
We don't know yet. Yeah, we don't know yet. I mean, there's some video of him getting brought into the station and he's like, they planted it on me. And, and you know, you're insulting the intelligence of the American people as he's going in.
- [45:31]
Melissa
Do you know. You know what I want to, I want to bring up Lawson. This is like slightly kind of political type stuff and I feel like one of the things I've always loved about when we communicate this stuff, which ironically I think the last few years people have felt it was slanted one way. But what I notice, and I want to be the. Some of the first to call it out and say it now and you've mentioned it off air. So I'm not taking credit for being the first person to say this, and I'm just confirming what I think you've said already is there is this really interesting conservative narrative that's brewing right now. And it's real and I see it even in Hollywood, which is what trips me out because Hollywood has been predominantly very left leaning and I. And it's to the point where there's so many times where I go to turn on a show and I start to watch the Katrina, I'm like, I can't watch this. It's just too much. It's too, too political. So that. And I've recently Found shows and things that I've watched. I'm like, oh, that was kind of a conservative slant there. That's weird. This is on Netflix. This is on Prime. Yeah, that's interesting to me. Like, and. And those shows are getting populated and bolstered. And so it is really interesting. Like, it's.
- [46:39]
Mandy
And so interesting. You just chase the money.
- [46:41]
Melissa
I mean, well, and so. And I think that's what this. I think exactly. It makes me want to be careful about saying things that, like, even Hollywood is just so left, technically. Left. Are they really left liberal or anything? Are they just going where the money is at and where. Where the populace is?
- [46:56]
Mandy
Yeah.
- [46:57]
Melissa
And. And it kind of feels that way right now because obviously we're. I mean, Trump just wants companies, the.
- [47:04]
Mandy
Pop celebrities and all that stuff. They go where the money is, period. End of story. Remember Bud Light? All the scandal, and then Bud Light lost all the money, and they came back with these, like, really, like, all American, you know, you know, dudes, brand. Because they lost money.
- [47:18]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, they lost money.
- [47:19]
Mandy
Yeah. You know, markets are powerful now. There's a whole DEI thing, which is different, which tries to force companies to do certain things, which was a real factor. But those are getting. Those are getting reversed now. A lot of companies are dumping them.
- [47:30]
Adam Schafer
Because I think that's the reason why it's probably. You've probably seen the opposite, is because the release of that and the media.
- [47:36]
Melissa
Is shifting really, really interesting to me. And then now, because you love to play this game or pay attention to this the most, what are the things that you watch out for on the opposite?
- [47:48]
Mandy
Hyper. Hyper nationalism. Yeah, hypernationalism. You have to be very careful. The. The dangerous side of conservativism, which we're not really seeing it yet now. Some people are like, yes, we are not really, but if we did, it could get real dangerous because it comes with patriotism, and it can be sold very effectively. And it looks like hyper nationalism. Hyper, you know, patriotism, exclusion of, you know, lots of other ideas, other people.
- [48:19]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And then, especially if we insulate ourselves from the other parts of the world, you know, we're really, like, centric.
- [48:25]
Mandy
And then. And then what they do is they start to legislate their own ideas. So legislating ideas always tends to be a bad idea. So then it's like, oh, no, these are the ideas we need to have. This is what we need to force people to learn. This is what we need to take away type of deal. It's a pendulum swing, you know, goes back and forth north, you Just don't want to go too extremely.
- [48:43]
Adam Schafer
We kind of knew it was coming. Yeah. So I guarantee it's. I'm always looking at that. Who has power right now and like where, where do we have concerns?
- [48:51]
Mandy
Yeah. Both sides love to go to war. That's all I know. So every time one side gets in, the other side gets in.
- [48:55]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, that was evident.
- [48:57]
Melissa
I just watched a really good video that Patrick but David did. It was like a short on like tariffs and income tax and, and how, like when did we not, you know, when there wasn't. It wasn't that long ago. We didn't even have income tax. And then how it was introduced. And then how it introduced.
- [49:13]
Mandy
Supposed to be temporary.
- [49:14]
Melissa
Yes, it was a, it was a temporary, temporary pay for the war. And then we realized, oh wow, we got away there. How about another war? Well, I'll keep, we can keep taking People won't mind. And then, and then to watch how that's escalated over the last hundred years is crazy to think how much of that has gone to. And then how much of it was going to the government like to be used.
- [49:34]
Mandy
But I, I look, I'll, I'll always support these audits and shrinking of government because it's the most inefficient crap. Have you seen the list of the audits? The amount of money that these agencies can't account for. They literally say we don't know where a Pentagon is.
- [49:49]
Melissa
The Pentagon alone. The Pentagon alone is responsible.
- [49:51]
Mandy
California, forget it. You don't have to go that far. The state of California lost. They don't know where 20 something billion dollars went. We don't know. Could you imagine being a company and.
- [50:01]
Melissa
Going to your shop?
- [50:01]
Adam Schafer
Everybody's fired, everybody's getting their assets taken. Like, are you serious?
- [50:05]
Melissa
Didn't you bring up on the podcast already about California, the new law that they're trying to pass right now with social media. They have your warning. Warning labels.
- [50:12]
Mandy
Oh, I don't know about that.
- [50:13]
Melissa
Oh, so it wasn't. I thought we did bring that up. Maybe. We did.
- [50:16]
Mandy
Yes.
- [50:16]
Adam Schafer
We didn't. Yeah.
- [50:17]
Melissa
So that, that California may be the first state to have basically warning labels on mental health and some, some other social media. Yeah. For social media. And I mean I thought, See, I thought we touched because I thought I made the comment about, oh, it'll be like the skull on the side of cigarettes. You know, it's like the same, same kind of concept.
- [50:37]
Mandy
You know those actually work. Do they. The cigarette stuff. Stuff they do. Did it? Yes, they campaign against tobacco was effective.
- [50:44]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, they actually put pictures.
- [50:45]
Melissa
It was disgusting.
- [50:46]
Adam Schafer
Oh yeah, it worked. People's like, oh my God, the cancer in the mouth.
- [50:51]
Mandy
Yeah.
- [50:51]
Adam Schafer
And then their throat and. Yeah, that was, that was brutal.
- [50:54]
Mandy
Speaking of health, you know what we could do now? Finally, everybody? You couldn't do this before. It was super frustrating for our listeners. But you can do it now. You can now buy a maps program for a family or a friend.
- [51:07]
Melissa
So awesome.
- [51:07]
Mandy
And you'll gift it. They'll get an email with their name and the whole deal.
- [51:11]
Adam Schafer
Best gift.
- [51:11]
Mandy
And you can time the email?
- [51:12]
Melissa
Yes, you can time it. You can time it and, and personalize it, which is so cool.
- [51:17]
Mandy
It's at checkout whenever you buy a program.
- [51:18]
Melissa
Yeah. If you just go in any, so it's any bundle, any special, any offer that we have. When you're going to the checkout programs, it has a little button that says give this a gift right underneath where the price and the checkout place is. And then you can customize, you know, happy birthday, whatever, have it delivered.
- [51:33]
Mandy
It was so frustrating to me that we never had this capability. Why don't we have this, this people would be like, can we make some.
- [51:38]
Adam Schafer
Little cards or something?
- [51:40]
Mandy
Yeah, no, you could do it now. You can now give the gift that. What better gift than the gift of hell no?
- [51:44]
Melissa
I think that's awesome. So it'll, it'll be interesting to see how, because I know we have a large portion of our audience that has asked for that for a really long time and hopefully we're getting it to them in enough time to, for the holiday. I mean, it's only like a week before Christmas, so hopefully that they'll be able to use it. I'm be curious, I'll pay attention, I'll watch the numbers on it to see, see how many people actually do that. But I know we've been asked, but, but I always wonder stuff like that too. It's like, you know, people are like, oh, you should do this or always do that. And then you create it. Right. You invest in it, you spend all time building. Then like five people do it.
- [52:18]
Mandy
I think a lot. We've had so many emails.
- [52:22]
Melissa
I think so too. And we've had to like try and do like finagle other ways to help people out with that.
- [52:25]
Mandy
So I, I, you know, I know we didn't have, we didn't have a shout out for mine, but I do have one. And this is just for, for bodybuilding fans or people who want to look and see what insane, ridiculous muscle building genetics looks like now. Of course, all pro bodybuilders have insane muscle building genetics, but there's this one guy. I've never seen genetics like this in my entire life. I follow bodybuilding since I was a kid and you know, I was kind of a like a fan of the whole thing. There's a guy, I don't know what his actual name is. His nickname is Neckzilla. Doug, look up Neckzilla already.
- [52:56]
Adam Schafer
I'm interested.
- [52:57]
Mandy
And, and pull up some pictures. Guy. Adam, when you look at this guy's genetics, bro, he looks like a mutant. It looks like somebody created him in a laboratory.
- [53:05]
Melissa
Is it that big mutant looking guy that's super tall and he's huge? No, you know what I'm talking about.
- [53:10]
Mandy
I know what you're talking about.
- [53:11]
Adam Schafer
He's like a tiny head.
- [53:12]
Melissa
Yes. Huge body.
- [53:14]
Mandy
No, no. There's a lot of guys that look insane, but this guy right here, especially if you look at his legs. Okay, that's not a real.
- [53:20]
Adam Schafer
Oh my God.
- [53:21]
Mandy
That was not a real picture. The one in the red is real. That one right there. Yeah. Look at the size of his neck. That's why they call him Neckzilla.
- [53:27]
Melissa
Oh, is that him?
- [53:28]
Mandy
That's him. Him. Doug, look up his legs. Go Neckzilla's quads.
- [53:32]
Melissa
I've never seen this guy.
- [53:33]
Mandy
Or nexillas.
- [53:34]
Melissa
How did you find him?
- [53:35]
Mandy
He. His. Yeah, his legs are, are in like. Doesn't make any sense. And you should. Yeah, dude.
- [53:42]
Melissa
How is he not one legs?
- [53:43]
Mandy
Because he doesn't have a pleasing looking good proportions. He just has a freaky crazy. Like this is a guy that, when he was a baby. You're looking at him going, okay, this kid. Something's going on here with this.
- [53:55]
Adam Schafer
He held his head up just fine.
- [53:56]
Mandy
Yeah, yeah. Look at his legs, bro. On the very right next to these other guys.
- [54:00]
Melissa
He's insane looking.
- [54:01]
Mandy
Ridiculous crazy.
- [54:02]
Melissa
Looks like. Is that Ramy he's next to right there in the middle?
- [54:05]
Mandy
No.
- [54:06]
Melissa
Who is that?
- [54:06]
Mandy
I don't know who that is. But this, but his, his genetics don't make any sense.
- [54:10]
Melissa
I don't think I've ever seen him compete.
- [54:11]
Mandy
So this is a guy that just is crazy.
- [54:15]
Melissa
Does he have a YouTube channel?
- [54:16]
Mandy
He's got everything. Yeah, he's got YouTube and Instagram, the whole deal. So this is.
- [54:19]
Melissa
What are you shouting out as you.
- [54:20]
Mandy
This. Oh, oh, you just go, nick Neckzilla. You can find him anywhere. Instagram or anywhere. This is the kind of guy that if he was a long distance runner would be buffed. He could do anything and he was, by doing, he would be jacked and he would ruin that.
- [54:34]
Adam Schafer
Like switch movements.
- [54:35]
Mandy
Yeah, Anything he does, he's gonna look jack. That's how. That's the kind of genetics he has. Yeah, there he is right there. Go check him out. Next zilla official. That's his Instagram.
- [54:44]
Melissa
That's funny.
- [54:45]
Mandy
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- [55:11]
Sal DeStefano
Our first caller is Michael from California.
- [55:14]
Mandy
Michael, what's happening?
- [55:14]
Melissa
How you doing, Michael?
- [55:15]
Adam Schafer
What's up, man?
- [55:17]
Michael
Hey guys. Just a little bit background about me. I'm 31 and I just. I'm a doctor in Agora Hills, California. I recently started a private practice that centers around mental health, utilizing functional functional medicine and ketamine therapy to treat mental health. And I basically been struggling with an eating disorder with exercise compensation for about 10 plus years. It started really in high school. I was overweight. I got into bodybuilding and When I was 18, I ended up developing a pretty bad eating disorder at the time. I was put on TRT and thyroid meds at age 18. We did a bunch of testing and stuff and we thought it was pituitary and kind of just didn't really know what, what had caused everything. But looking back now, it definitely was probably reversible because of the way that I was. I was treating my body and everything. That pivoted to me becoming a NASA certified personal trainer right before I went to college started. I worked for a big box gym for a while, but really didn't like the toxic environment there. It was just not a good group of people. So then I started to. I decided to go into medicine during medical school. I got really addicted to studying and this led to me doing a lot of pacing where I would use it as like cardio as a form of studying so I could study better. I basically lost about £20, got even leaner, and my cardio was up to about 40 to 45000 steps a day on top of six to seven days of weight training.
- [56:52]
Melissa
Wow.
- [56:53]
Michael
So yeah, it has been a lot. And then that progressed into residency. I went to into psychiatry for a couple years and basically just got out of hand mainly due to stress but also just never resolving that eating disorder. Now I'm 148 pounds at 510. I eat about 232330 calories. And I actually recently started working with Christina Hathaway relatively early a few months ago and she's really changed my life and helped me get, get everything under control. I used to, I was eating about 2100 calories at the time and my steps were, you know they were 45000 but now they're down to 32000 and my, my training days went from seven to four, down to two upper and two lower days which it's, I'm getting a lot more strength gains and everything. On top of that I'd say my body fat's probably around 8. My in body scan got me as low as 5% but I know that's probably not the most accurate. My, my dietary fats were around 40 and now they're up to 70 which, which is great for my hormone support. Not that I really need it but I think it does definitely help especially with hair and skin which were definitely issues in the beginning. Anyway I got slowly started reversing my way up and I feel stronger, healthier and happier which is definitely the most important thing. Now for my actual question, I noticed that when I drop my steps about 10,000, 12,000 and less and also lowered my training that and increased my food, that my hunger actually increased. So I actually started to get hungrier despite doing significantly less work. My theory was that my metabolism was starting to actually work properly and my body was craving the food that it was neglected for so long. And Christina kind of echoed that, that So I just wanted to see what you guys, what your thoughts were if this is normal or, or if I'm just kind of crazy.
- [59:07]
Melissa
100, very normal 100 that that's your body thanking you for moving in the right direction.
- [59:12]
Mandy
It's true, it's building muscles, trying to build muscle. Hunger is an interesting signal because it could be influenced physiologically but it's also influenced psychologically quite strongly I think. You know that right? You know people with, who are really deep in like anorexia won't even feel hungry and have to force themselves to eat. So it's, it's a bit complicated but as your body starts to get the signal to build muscle, you're not over trained, you're feeding it more hormones start to move in that direction. You start to become More anabolic, you will get hungrier and that's a good sign for someone in your situation. At your height and size, you're still low calorie, your fat is even still low. You probably, especially with your activity and the kind of work that you do, which is a higher stress job, you're probably gonna be better somewhere north of 3,000 calories. And your body weight at 148will probably be closer to 170 is what you'll find yourself. Your body fat's really low. And I'm gonna tell you this because this is just the truth. You're gonna have to gain some body fat. Maintaining a single digit body fat that is, it's very rare that that's a healthy place for a man to be in all the time. Now you can get there and come out of it. But for most men, and of course there's those genetic anomalies, but they're typically these high level athletes and if, you know, if you're one of those people, you know, because you're always the fastest, strongest person around. But for most men, fit and healthy, you're probably going to hover anywhere between 10 to 15%, probably closer to 12, 11. 12% is where you'll be most the time when you're, you're healthy and fit and consistent. Single digit is a place that you, you can touch but come right back out. So you're going to want to get heavier, you're going to want to get stronger. And I would ask you to not track your body fat percentage at all because I think that'll, that'll really mess you up during this process. I like that you're working with. Yeah, Christina. I think it's important how, how often do you work with her? Is it a weekly thing?
- [61:21]
Michael
Yeah, yeah, I talked to her weekly and yeah, she's been fantastic and really made me realize that I was, I think a lot of what I was desiring, you know, all this single digit body fat and all this stuff was not even what I really wanted. I wanted to be a husband and a father and start a family. And those things actually keep you from doing that. Those things.
- [61:41]
Melissa
That's right.
- [61:42]
Michael
Most of the time because of the amount of, of pain and I mean just what it does to your body.
- [61:48]
Mandy
Yeah. 100 and it's, it's always that way.
- [61:51]
Melissa
You're doing, you're doing really good.
- [61:52]
Mandy
You are.
- [61:53]
Melissa
I mean literally what's happening right is it's, it's just keep, stay the course. It's, keep going that direction. I Mean, you could even afford to reduce the training even more. You can afford to reduce the steps even more. You can afford to increase calories. And if you need to psychologically do one of them at a time, you know, just a little bit. A little bit less of the pacing, a little bit less of the training, a little bit more of the calories. You know, pick and choose and. But keep moving in that direction.
- [62:18]
Mandy
In my experience, working with individuals who struggle with this, and myself included, what tends to work as a nice stepping stone is to change your focus to something that is a little more aligned with your ultimate goal of improving your health, being a father and a husband and the next step. Now that's. And this is not a perfect step because you could still go. You could go off the rails with this as well. But I think if you focused on getting stronger and made that your fitness, for lack of a better term, obsession. I don't want it to be obsession, but this is what you're focused on. I think it would move you in the right direction with everything. You'll want to eat more because you'll see the weight go up on the bar. You'll build more muscle. You won't be so concerned about body fat percentage. You're probably not even gonna measure your body fat percentage because you're focused on strength. I think a MAPS anabolic program would be great for that. And I would, you know, for you, if you were my client, I'd say, let's get you as strong as possible over the next year. And through that process, you're gonna increase your calories, you're gonna strength train properly, you're not gonna overtrain, and then you're gonna see all kinds of awesome results from that. And it'll move you away from the obsession, the body obsession, the body focus, the body fat percentage, all that stuff. Eventually you move away from that as well. But strength is a great stepping stone. It really is.
- [63:37]
Melissa
Michael, are you. Are you struggling at all with. Because the fact that you. I think you're doing phenomenal and moving the right direction. Has that felt very difficult? Or have you been good with accepting moving in the direction that you are? Has it been a push and pull type of feel?
- [63:52]
Michael
Yeah. So it's interesting. So I actually tried to do this last year during residency with another coach, and I freaked out and went backwards. And this time around, it's actually been really, really easy for me because first of all, I don't weigh myself anymore because I don't care. It doesn't really matter. And I I want like, basically my, my envision of myself is a big, strong man that can protect somebody and, and provide for a family and, and I took a progress picture at the beginning with Christina that I looked at it and I didn't recognize and that I look at that every day that remind me of what my goal is and how I want to be healthy and, and what, what, what I really want in life. And it's not, you know, abs with ab veins for no reason. You know, I'm not a bodybuilder. I don't get up on stage, I don't get paid for it. You know, I get paid to help people, people. And I, I pride myself in what I do for a living and focusing on that and then, you know, being strong because it feels good to be strong. It's my catharsis. It's what I do to, to release that, that negative energy I. From work that, that I take on from my patients and everything and have a healthier relationship with that. And it's actually been a lot easier because I've let go of those, those obsessions with, with wanting to look perfect.
- [65:19]
Melissa
That's awesome.
- [65:19]
Michael
For actually no reason.
- [65:22]
Mandy
You know what's really cool is that, what's really cool is that you work in mental health too, because working with other people, helping them, you can't help but start to take your own advice and start to see some of the things that you struggle with yourself. I think that's going to really help you. If it hasn't already. I'm sure it already has. You know, something else too, to kind of move that focus would be to try something physical that's in a bit of a different direction that requires performance. The reason why I keep pushing performance because it's hard to under eat and over train and to improve in performance. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a great, a great segue. Like if you did Jiu jitsu a couple days a week, lifted once a week, you might find yourself becoming kind of falling in love with that performance and that feeling and really just not even paying attention to the mirror. Because it's really about strength and performance. You know, strength in the gym, performance on the mats. So that's just another suggestion that I've seen help quite a few men.
- [66:18]
Michael
Yeah, actually my buddy, residency took me, he does Jiu jitsu and took me to a session once and it was the most intense, intense workout I think I've ever done. I just got destroyed. But it feels good though. It's really the different kind that of, of Pain.
- [66:36]
Mandy
Totally. Totally. I'll send you maps Anabolic. Because if you're going to stick with just strength training, I think that program you'll love and you'll see your strength gains explode. You'll really see your body from a strength perspective. Just go through the roof, and I think things will fall into place. You probably, you need to keep reverse dieting, keep bumping those calories up and, and keep moving in that direction. But this is a great start.
- [66:58]
Melissa
Yeah, I'd like to. I'd like to throw you in the private forum, too, so we can just keep an eye on you. I know you got Christina and she's phenomenal. So as long as you're working with her, I think you guys are gonna do great. But I'd love to put you in the forum, too. Just keep us updated. If you have any questions along the way, you know, you can reach directly to us that way.
- [67:14]
Michael
Of course. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.
- [67:16]
Mandy
You got it. Thanks for calling in.
- [67:18]
Melissa
All right, Michael, Appreciate it.
- [67:19]
Michael
Of course. Keep doing what you're doing.
- [67:21]
Mandy
Thank you.
- [67:22]
Melissa
Take it easy, man.
- [67:24]
Mandy
I. I think him helping people and mental health is going to help him. It always does, right?
- [67:28]
Melissa
I mean, half of why I have fallen in love, love with our profession is the accountability piece that it always did for me. I mean, that was a big feel like a hypocrite.
- [67:38]
Mandy
When you're giving advice, you're not taking it.
- [67:40]
Melissa
That was a big factor for me when deciding to go down that path. It's like, you know what? I love that I'm preaching this message every day, which is just a constant mirror for myself. And so, yeah, the fact that he's in mental health, I'm sure that. And it sounds like he's doing phenomenal. It just keeps going that direct if you just keep going that direction. And it does sound like, like, because my concern was, okay, he's made great progress, but has it been like, you know, white knuckling it to get there? And it sounds like he's embraced.
- [68:07]
Mandy
Well, he did what I was going to say, and then he said he was working with someone is you need to work with someone on a regular basis, just like he would advise anybody in, you know, who. Who comes to him. Because you need a guide. Because you're left to your own devices, you'll move back to where you were before.
- [68:22]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [68:22]
Sal DeStefano
Our next caller is Teresa from Canada.
- [68:25]
Adam Schafer
Teresa, what's happening in.
- [68:28]
Justin Andrews
Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?
- [68:30]
Melissa
Good.
- [68:31]
Mandy
How can we help you?
- [68:32]
Justin Andrews
Okay, so I'll just read from my other device here. The the email. It's long winded so I'm sorry in advance. So should I just get into it?
- [68:42]
Mandy
Yeah, do it.
- [68:43]
Melissa
Yep.
- [68:45]
Justin Andrews
Okay. I'm reaching out because I feel stuck with a client. I'm a fairly novice coach and I just feel like I'm not doing enough to help this person or maybe not pushing her enough. I will try and keep this shortish this client is a busy mom of two younger kids and a wife and works a busy full time job. She is kind of known for taking on too much onto her plate, always saying yes to things. We've known each other for years and she reached out for me for help and I thought what a better person to help. She has done the whole thing in the past where you're given a basic meal plan, you follow it and then like yay, you lose the weight. But then what? You know what? After that she has done the whole five to six days a week at home beachbody thing, the workouts. None of that really stuck. She struggles with sleep because one of their kids wakes them up like every night. Plus they kind of have to do that thing where they fall asleep with their kids to get them to sleep. She struggles with scrolling at bedtime and not really prioritizing sleep even though we talk about it quite frequently. We have been working together since February and I've been just trying to get her to focus on getting a little bit more movement in every day, hitting water intake goals, protein goals, and doing like one maps 15 workout a week. We kind of cycle through those goals repeatedly. Kind of like a hamster wheel. Recently I've been asking her to schedule in like one workout per week because like I think that's just important me time. Like she deserves that, that whatever. She can't seem to string a solid week together of hitting protein targets. I help by giving meal ideas but not plans. I encourage cooking extra dinner or meal prepping just a few meals to help her stay ahead and leave more free time in the evenings. I try and encourage her to find foods that will work with their family because that's what they will stick with in the long run, ideally, which is hard because the kids are picky. They have frequent large family meals on many weekends and work events and lunches and lunches don't always have good options. I want to help her make smarter choices without feeling the need to bring my own tupperware type person. Her husband brought out the scale recently with no malicious intent and she saw the scale go up since we've been working together. She didn't tell me how much, but it gone up. He did see it go up too. But you know how like hard gainer men react when the scale goes up versus women. There have been some wins with her though. I feel like she eats more protein than before. She has stopped heavily binge snacking in the evenings because she eats more at meals and she does seem like she has more energy and I think she sees the benefit of a few of these things. So on one hand, I feel bad because I feel responsible for her success right now because I am her support person. I understand what works for my little family obviously may not work for everyone. I feel like this is a fairly textbook scenario for you guys that I just need more experience to figure out. I just feel bad that months and months have passed and it makes me feel like a bad coach coach. But when do you have the hard conversations with people about their goals and that they kind of have to take things into their own hands and like try. Do you have any tips for making smaller goals? I appreciate and look forward to any advice.
- [72:22]
Mandy
I think you're doing good.
- [72:23]
Melissa
I think so too.
- [72:24]
Mandy
I think you're doing really good. And this is. This is what makes coaching so rewarding and so challenging. Okay. Your job as a coach is to be honest. It's to inspire and encourage. Not push, inspire and encourage. But it's also to be a source of endless grace when they make a mistake. Because you are the person that they're concerned about when they mess up. You know, they probably feel bad about themselves. And then you're the coach and you say, look, it's fine. We all make a mistake. What used to help me a lot with this is remembering the areas of my life that I was stuck on a hamster wheel. We all have these. We all have areas where if somebody from the outside looked at them, they'd go, just do this thing or just don't do this thing. It's so silly. And we tend to hide that from people. But we out. We all have those. Now. It is true that it is all your fault as a coach, but it's also true that you need to give yourself grace as well. This is the mystery of being a good coach is you have to take the responsibility, but you can't allow yourself to be crushed by the responsibility. Now why do you have to take all the responsibility? Because you have to care. If you don't care, you're not going to be effective. But you also have to accept that people are human and that it's going to be a struggle, and that's okay as well. So what does this look like? It looks like honesty. So when do I have those hard conversations? When they invite them. Oh, my God. I can't believe I'm not losing weight. Listen, this is really hard. Like, we know why it's not happening. We know the reasons why it's not happening, but it's just really tough. When you're ready to take the next step, you let me know. I think I have some ideas. This is how you present it. Okay. What you don't want to do is come down on people when they make those mistakes. You don't want to come down on them unless they invite it. And sometimes that happens, too. Sometimes somebody comes to you and they, you know, keep making the same mistake. Same mistake. And then I would tell people, do you mind if I give you some harsh realities? Yeah. You're doing this to yourself, you know, But. But it's always with care, love, encouragement, and honesty. So you don't lie. You're honest. But again, it's encouragement, inspiration, and grace. And this is the only approach that I've ever seen that gets people to the place where they can do this for the rest of their lives. Now, here's the kicker. If you force her to do something and she does it, you will rob her of the joy of making that choice herself. And it's not going to happen, and it won't stick. That's the challenge. The challenge is how can I get this person to want to make these choices and these changes? And when they make those changes, can I do it in a way to where they feel good about this, that they did this, not that I did this, that they did this. You want them to feel that that's what sticks. I think you're doing a good job. I think you're being a little, Little too hard on yourself. So extend yourself that grace and give it to her when she makes a mistake.
- [75:18]
Melissa
Yeah. I think the best part about this client for you is realizing that this is going to be the majority of clients. Just a fact. Yeah, that's part. That's part of.
- [75:30]
Adam Schafer
It's the long game.
- [75:31]
Melissa
Yeah. I mean, being a very good trainer is a lot like being a really good baseball player. You're good if you're amazing. You're hitting the ball three, three out of ten times. I mean, you're amazing. And that's just. Clients are that way. And just you're. And hang on the things that you are making progress with her and steps in that direction. And if she's. If she is not bitching and complaining and blaming you, then sometimes you just have to be okay that this is where she's at currently, right now. I know me being in her life. Life is helping her be a healthier version than what she would be with me out of her life. And so that's a very positive thing. Right. Sometimes clients would train with me, and the only thing I could get them to do is to show up to the workout. That was why they hired me and everything else they weren't doing outside of me.
- [76:21]
Mandy
But so many clients.
- [76:22]
Melissa
Yeah, but, hey, that's better than them not coming to the gym. And at least they're coming to see me. And they recognize the importance of strength training the two or three times a week with me. And so even though I couldn't get them to do any of the other things, I also recognized that, hey, at least I can add value or keep them healthier than what they would be if they weren't seeing me. So you do. And. And if. If I thought you were giving bad advice or you're pushing too much or you weren't meeting them where they're at, I'd give you advice in that direction. But I think the. The things that you listed that you were doing and the way you're communicating them, and even where I see you're meeting her, I mean, you're doing the right things. You really are. And it doesn't matter. Sometimes, like, no matter what you do, that person has to really want it. Sometimes people hire a coach because they can afford to hire a coach, and it makes them feel like they're trying or that they're moving in the right direction. But in reality, they haven't truly made that decision inside.
- [77:14]
Mandy
And that sounds like trying, but they haven't.
- [77:16]
Melissa
And that this sounds like one of those people that she's got so much going on in her life that she hasn't quite prioritized this as she does everything else.
- [77:24]
Mandy
Right.
- [77:24]
Adam Schafer
She knows it's important. It's just a matter of time for it to really set in. And you never know what that trigger is. You know, you never know that. That one day where all of a sudden it just clicks, it makes sense. And I've had this happen with clients before. It's been like a couple years, and then all of a sudden, like, there was this huge shift in their life, and that's why you just got to hang on and. And be there. And they just know you're the. You're the North Star, and you're there, and you just keep providing good information when they need it.
- [77:50]
Mandy
Yeah. Here's what you. What you want. And think of your own situation. Maybe you've known people like this in your life, right? Right. You make a huge, embarrassing mistake. Who's that? One person you, you know, you can tell, okay, you want to be that for your client. What you don't want to be is that trainer where the client's like, oh, man, I. I went off the rails yesterday, ate a whole pizza. I'm not telling my trainer. You want to be the trainer or the coach where they come. You're the first person they confide in. They confide in you because they know you're going to be honest, but you're also going to give them grace. Remember, grace is undeserved, deserved. Grace is not like. Like, you may think to yourself, like, you deserve to get, you know, whatever. That's not what that looks like. So you want to be that coach that. The person that your client feels like. That's the person I go to when this. When I screw up. And this sucks, by the way. She's got two younger kids. This is a season for a lot of moms. Like, Justin hit the nail on the head. I can't tell you how many clients I had that I would train for a year, two years, three years, like, years. And then all of a sudden, like, magic things fall into place. And sometimes it's like, oh, my kids went to school now, or I finally left that job. And then things start to click, and it's like, man, if we didn't hang in there, we would have never reached that place. So this is the beauty of what we do as coaches and trainers, and this is why a lot of people can't do it. But that's okay. That gets me excited.
- [79:15]
Justin Andrews
Cool.
- [79:16]
Melissa
Wow.
- [79:16]
Justin Andrews
Well, thank you. Yeah. Sometimes I just sit back and I'm like, am I just taking her money? But, like, forgive my pregnancy hormones, they might come out. But she wrote me, like, a thank you Christmas card that said, like, it was just like, thank you for helping me make myself a priority. And I just. After everything I've been mentally dealing with, with this question, I just. I really needed to hear that because, like you said, I am her support person. So it just made me feel really good. And what you guys are saying is making me feel. Despite the ugly crying.
- [80:01]
Mandy
Yeah, I'm. You're a good coach.
- [80:04]
Melissa
Yeah. You're doing country, so you're doing a lot of the. Right.
- [80:05]
Mandy
If you didn't feel the way you did, you wouldn't be a good coach. This is what. Everybody go. This is all good. Coaches go through this.
- [80:10]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [80:12]
Justin Andrews
Well, thanks, guys.
- [80:14]
Mandy
Okay.
- [80:15]
Justin Andrews
I'll just try and trust the process, I guess, like I do with myself, so.
- [80:20]
Mandy
And believe your clients when they give you money and they say that you're bringing them value, believe them. Don't look at and go, but what do you know? You're not doing this.
- [80:28]
Melissa
That.
- [80:29]
Mandy
No, no, believe them. They mean it. Are you attending our webinars for coaches and trainers?
- [80:36]
Justin Andrews
I attended the last. Last one. I missed the first one, but yes, I would like to keep up keeping up with them.
- [80:42]
Mandy
Keep registering. We're doing them every other month right now, so we'll see you there.
- [80:46]
Justin Andrews
Perfect.
- [80:46]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [80:47]
Mandy
You got it.
- [80:47]
Justin Andrews
Okay.
- [80:48]
Adam Schafer
Keep at it.
- [80:49]
Mandy
Thanks, Teresa.
- [80:51]
Justin Andrews
Merry Christmas, guys. Happy New Year.
- [80:53]
Adam Schafer
Merry Christmas.
- [80:55]
Mandy
This is why I love coaches and trainers. You don't see anybody else.
- [80:59]
Adam Schafer
They care.
- [81:00]
Mandy
You don't see anybody else in the fitness industry feel like that about people's health, about their progress. Nobody. Nobody feels like that.
- [81:09]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [81:09]
Mandy
This is why we speak to coaches and trainers, and that's why they're the ones that. That make the big difference.
- [81:13]
Melissa
She's doing a really good job.
- [81:14]
Mandy
That's it. Totally.
- [81:15]
Melissa
When she was listening, I mean, obviously, I recognize her name, too. Teresa's been listening and following and been in our forums for a very long time. So I recognize her. And you could tell by the way she's handling her. I mean, she's doing all the right things. She's meeting her where she's at, she's giving her little baby steps, and they fall off, they get back on. Like, I. I just. I just. This is just part of the game, you know, this is part of it. Like, you just got to be okay.
- [81:38]
Adam Schafer
Sometimes a coach needs a little pump up, too.
- [81:40]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [81:40]
Adam Schafer
That's how I feel. Like.
- [81:41]
Melissa
Well, I remember.
- [81:42]
Adam Schafer
I definitely needed that a lot of times.
- [81:43]
Melissa
Yeah. I remember having moments like that where you have these streaks of. Where all the clients are like, just not.
- [81:49]
Mandy
Yeah.
- [81:49]
Melissa
You're like, oh, my God, is it me? Am I. Am I that bad? You know, and so you just have. And then you have other.
- [81:55]
Mandy
Remember that?
- [81:55]
Melissa
Yeah. Then you have hot streaks where everyone's hitting their goals and they're doing great. So you just. Just depends on the batch you got at the time you got them. And so. But she's doing all the right things, so. And obviously, the. The lady wrote her a card to thank her for how much she's doing. To me, that's so that's the big point to this conversation, I think, to be had for coaches and trainers that are listening. This is a little bit different. If this lady is bitching and complaining and telling her and blaming her that you're, you know, why am I not seeing the results? Well, then there's a lot of stuff that we can communicate, talk about. But the lady is.
- [82:25]
Mandy
That's the invitation for the honest conversation.
- [82:27]
Melissa
But it sounds like she recognizes that she's not doing all that she needs to do, but she still values.
- [82:33]
Mandy
That's right.
- [82:34]
Melissa
And so that's totally okay. It's totally okay.
- [82:36]
Sal DeStefano
Our next caller is Andrew from Wisconsin.
- [82:39]
Mandy
What's up, Andrew?
- [82:40]
Melissa
Andrew, what's happening, dude? Hey, guys. What you got for us?
- [82:43]
Teresa
My main question is. So I've been lifting for about 20 years, since middle school, and I've done powerlifting in high school. I did track throughout college and post college. I have a gym in my basement that I set up during COVID I've been running anabolic and power lift for the last year and a half and doing symmetry in between. We just went through our third adoption, but this adorable child does not sleep whatsoever. I want to continue training and be able to lift to stay strong for my kids who are beginning sports. But the lack of sleep is getting to me. Finally, after eight months, wondering if there's something that you had other than maps 15 because I'm kind of a meathead that you would suggest running in the meat diet time as it's part of the reason that I lift is for my own sanity in those times.
- [83:31]
Melissa
I think you would be pleasantly surprised with Maps 15 because I too am a meathead and so is Sal. And I tell you what, that one of the, one of the reasons why that's such a banger is because it's a very unassuming program and you will build muscle on it and you will get strong on it. And it's a great workout. It really is. It just. It sounds weak because it's in Lily. The advanced version that's in there is more like 25 to 30 minutes. So it's not quite a 15 minute workout. There is a 15 workout, which is like the beginner portion of it. But a guy like you, I'd say run maps 15, do the advanced version. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you get from it. And I think it's perfect for what's going on in your. In your life right now.
- [84:12]
Mandy
Yeah. What does the sleep look like? How bad is it for you?
- [84:16]
Teresa
I will say he's the worst of all of our kids. So it's at most I'll get two hours consistently at a time between my wife and I waking up, taking shifts here and there.
- [84:27]
Mandy
Yeah, dude, you got, yeah, this I don't think you have a choice. I don't think you have a choice to do, I mean, because your other option, you can, so if you did Mass 15 and you did the barbell version, you go in there, do it, you want to spend extra time, you do mobility, do some static stretching, just spend some time in there. But if you go, I mean, I think you know this, you've been working out for a long time. You go above and beyond. It's gonna, man, it's gonna make things just rough. You'll start to get sick and things will start to break down. So I mean, the other option is go in the gym, in your gym and do like 20% intensity where you're just getting a little bit of a pump and going through the motion, you know, type of deal. I mean, I get the whole sanity thing, you know, I have that relationship with exercise too. But man, that kind of sleep is, that's rough. That'll kill your body's ability to adapt or recover. And so you gotta be very careful with that. Because you've been working out so long, you're quite resilient and you'll fool yourself for a little while until it starts to backfire. And the way it'll backfire is, I mean it won't feel good. You'll either hurt yourself or you'll get sick because your immune system will get super depressed and you know, this is your third kid, it's a season, you know, you'll get through it and then you'll be able to get back at it it. And because you've been strength training for so long, your, your muscle memory is there a little bit, will keep what you got. But yeah, dude, I, I, I think.
- [85:52]
Melissa
Making yourself go through the maps 15, you will, it'll be a good lesson for you because you are literally the perfect candidate for a program like this. And I think it's important that you see the correlation of what, what you need to do volume and intensity wise when you're in a position like you are right now, where you're not getting very much sleep and how do I still work out? Because you care about that, but also recognize that I have to scale back somehow or some way because of the lack of sleep and what a role that plays. So I think you'll end up learning Something, I mean, I did, I've been doing this for a very long time and did exactly that. Was not excited to do it either, but was blown away by the results that came from it. And what the lesson for me was like, oh, wow, wow. I really do did need to pull back. Even though in my head I didn't think I was overdoing it. I thought for sure I was totally fine. That was, the lesson was like, oh, I could really scale back. Especially guys like us that have been lifting for so long, man, it just doesn't take nearly as much training intensity and volume to maintain that healthy, strong physique. And the times to pull back are these. There's times, there's times when it's time to sprint, right. There's times to, to ramp it up, get after it, chase a pr, make gains. But it's not when you're up every two hours through the night with a new, with a new kid.
- [87:12]
Mandy
I hit a PR on, on that workout. I hit a deadlift PR at 44 years old, you know, and I had initially set it in my early 30s, so I got great results with. But you know, I, I get the sanity part. I would say because you don't want to hurt yourself, you don't want to keep hammering your body. Maybe find some, some replacements in, in your basement. Static stretching is really good because it brings the CNS down.
- [87:37]
Adam Schafer
It's relaxing or anything.
- [87:39]
Mandy
Yeah. Sauna, mobility work, you know, so you'll still be in there for your hour, but lifting is gonna be real rough, you know, with this kind of sleep.
- [87:50]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [87:50]
Adam Schafer
If you overdo the dose of lifting, it's just gonna set you back.
- [87:53]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [87:54]
Teresa
How do you get through like the mental barrier of it, you know? Yeah, I guess that's, that's a big thing for me too. I see 15 and I'm like, man, that's like enough for a warm up. So that like, I think once you.
- [88:06]
Mandy
Try it after, after a couple weeks.
- [88:08]
Adam Schafer
I think you'll be the frequency of it. You'll kind of get into the momentum that it provides. And that's really like, it's, it's pretty game changer once you get past that initial hurdle of like feeling like it's really not much, you know, because it does, you know, that, that short amount, if you're used to these long bouts where you're just crushing it in the gym, it's, it's definitely it shift and transition, but because it's all spread out all the way throughout the week and you're doing it so frequently, you're gonna see, like, a totally different thing.
- [88:38]
Melissa
Remind. Remind yourself there is a big difference between what you can tolerate and what is optimal. Because a guy like you, with your background is. Is tough as nails, probably, and can grit through any workout and be on two hours of sleep. No sleep, doesn't matter. I can do this because you've trained yourself that way. Way. And you can tolerate it because you've got that edge to you. But what you can tolerate and what is optimal for your body are to. And that's why I think this would be such a good lesson, is because I think you will realize that as you go through this. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, I could have done four times the workout, because I got that in me. But I realize how much my body. What's optimal for my body right now is that I. I do this well.
- [89:18]
Richard
This.
- [89:18]
Adam Schafer
This kid's a new variable, Right. This lack of sleep's a new variable. Now you need a new variable in your training. It's just you have to. You have to match it. You have to be able to adapt and mold to this new, you know, challenge.
- [89:31]
Mandy
You'll be working out for the rest of your life. So this will be a season. But, you know, Andrew, you're a man of faith, right? Yeah. Okay. So you got to trust that he's got something for you, and it looks like part of it is in this obstacle right here. So you've got this, you know, miraculous baby not sleeping well, and he's probably going to start touching your issues with exercise. So just watch what happens. I think you're gonna be pleasantly surprised about what you get out of it.
- [89:56]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [89:58]
Mandy
Okay.
- [89:59]
Melissa
All right. I trust you guys.
- [90:01]
Teresa
I know it's one of those things you talk about all the time. I just need to hear it.
- [90:04]
Melissa
Right? Yeah.
- [90:05]
Mandy
Do you have it? Can we send it to you?
- [90:08]
Teresa
I don't have it. Like I said, it was the 15.
- [90:12]
Adam Schafer
You just looked at it.
- [90:13]
Mandy
Oh, we'll send it to you. So in. In Mass 15, there's a barbell version. Do that version.
- [90:17]
Melissa
Yeah. The advanced version, you'll do that. Yeah. And I'm telling you, Andrew, right now, I think within two weeks, you'll feel and see a difference. Two weeks. It won't even take that long. And I think you'll see positive benefits from it, and hopefully that's enough to. To motivate you to continue on.
- [90:31]
Mandy
Yeah. Awesome.
- [90:34]
Teresa
Well, thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. Everything you guys are doing, you got it, man.
- [90:37]
Mandy
God bless. Thank you.
- [90:38]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [90:40]
Mandy
I hope.
- [90:41]
Melissa
I hope he follows up with us because I, I think, oh, he's gonna.
- [90:43]
Mandy
Come back and be like, oh, my gosh, you guys.
- [90:45]
Melissa
Yeah, yeah. If he does it.
- [90:47]
Adam Schafer
If he does it. Yeah, if he does a lot of resistance.
- [90:49]
Melissa
I mean. Yeah, right away. Listen, he started with any. Do you have any options except for master?
- [90:55]
Adam Schafer
Except for the exact answer you're gonna give me?
- [90:58]
Mandy
Yes. Yeah. You know what's funny? He's going to do it because he has no choice. That's the thing, dude.
- [91:02]
Adam Schafer
There's no other option.
- [91:03]
Mandy
You wake up every two hours. Hours. How long is that gonna last? Where you could go and just work out in the gym for now?
- [91:09]
Melissa
Well, yeah. Or he doesn't. He does continue on this and then his body tells.
- [91:15]
Mandy
That's what I'm saying.
- [91:16]
Melissa
That's it.
- [91:16]
Adam Schafer
It's gonna revolt.
- [91:17]
Melissa
Yeah, it'll. Eventually, it'll.
- [91:19]
Mandy
Hey, God bless him, though. Three kids adopted. That's a lot of work, man.
- [91:22]
Adam Schafer
For sure. Yes.
- [91:23]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [91:23]
Sal DeStefano
Our next caller is Deborah and coach Richard from Wisconsin.
- [91:28]
Mandy
What's up, guys?
- [91:29]
Melissa
How you guys doing?
- [91:29]
Mandy
Welcome back.
- [91:31]
Adam Schafer
What's happening?
- [91:32]
Melissa
Hey, how are you doing?
- [91:33]
Deborah
How are you?
- [91:34]
Mandy
We're doing good.
- [91:35]
Melissa
Very good.
- [91:35]
Richard
How are you guys?
- [91:36]
Melissa
We're excited to hear the follow up here.
- [91:38]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [91:42]
Deborah
Yes. Well, about 90 days ago on episode 2431, you challenged me to give up the scale to back off the tracking in hopes to grow both in strength and mentally kind of allow myself to go into a bulk. So I'm back. I did bring my coach of four years, coach Richard Sauer, along here.
- [92:05]
Melissa
Awesome.
- [92:05]
Mandy
What's up, coach?
- [92:06]
Melissa
Yeah, nice to meet you.
- [92:08]
Deborah
You had mentioned once on an episode that it would be cool to have like a client coach on. So. And I thought, I mean, he's been such a big supporter of me and we've, he's had my programming and trained me for four years. He's a huge, huge, huge encourager and whatnot. So anyway, great job. So, yeah, giving up the skill. Yeah.
- [92:33]
Melissa
Tell us how that, yeah, tell us how that went.
- [92:38]
Deborah
So it was really hard. And I have to tell you, if you hadn't challenged me to come back, I'm not sure if I would have actually done it. It took me a. Because he's tried to get me to give it up for like a long time and I just, I couldn't do it. In fact, it took me a week to deliver the scales to him. But I did. I know I was like gearing up. You had said, I think Adam, you told me that, you know, it was going to be Tough, you know, and I knew it was. And the draw to get back, to like have them back was. Was so strong, especially that first week you had said it was kind of like, you know, wanting to go back to an abusive relationship. And, man, you were totally right. So about a week after giving up the scale, I can honestly tell you I was in despair. Like, I felt like I was heavier. I felt like I had, you know, I didn't have that number every day to kind of check in with. So that was hard. But after the first couple weeks, I kind of noticed that actually my eating had gotten a little better. My cravings had actually kind of reduced. And I think it's because I didn't have that number in my head every day, whether it was up or whether it was down. So that was kind of eye opening to me. I felt good. And I was kind of beginning to realize the mental benefits of not having that number in my head every day. So, you know, and I also kind of gave up the food tracking. I was just going on, trying to intuitively eat one of the things I did, which doesn't seem like a big thing, but I did add a protein shake after my lift in the morning. So I lift early. We train at like 5am and typically I'm up and at the gym by 4:30. And I would try to make myself to kind of wait until 8:30, 9:00 when I get to work before I would have anything, just, you know, wanting to like, delay, I guess, that first bit of calories. So I added a protein shake there. And it sounds like a small change, but it's a big step to like consistently add a little extra calories during the day. And Richard can kind of talk about programming what we did there, what he did. So.
- [95:10]
Richard
Yeah.
- [95:11]
Mandy
So.
- [95:11]
Richard
Well, first of all, I'm still in awe that we're on this. I've been listening to you guys for over four and a half years, every single week. And if we have time, I have a question for my end, at the very end, if we get to it. But yeah, so it's been an absolute, I can just say, honestly, like, pleasure with Deb. Obviously we've had, you know, ups and downs. She doesn't always listen, always, but obviously I'm not always present. So, no, as far as the program goes, we started to get at a small boot camp gym a couple of years ago, and that was mainly group fitness. And I moved there from South Dakota and kind of built my training business from there. Again, just one on one. And she was One of the first people that started to trust me with some strength training stuff and whatnot. So I slowly started to get her away from doing like boot camps, like five days a week and stuff or even two workouts a day kind of deal. I'm like, hey, this is a barbell squat. This is what a two minute rest looks like. Let's talk about some stor, get to.
- [96:05]
Melissa
Know each other a little bit.
- [96:07]
Richard
And so ever since, basically it's become like she has done a total 180 as far as her like attitude goes, as far as the like exercises and the programming and like the mindset about that. So her consistency is stupendous, perfect. There's never a flaw. Like if there is a fever or sickness, snowstorm. She has a gym at home too. So she has basically all of you guys programs plus the stuff that I write writer and we face through a lot of stuff. We've done like prototypes of, you know, maps, anabolic level of maps, power lift. I sometimes throw in some. I've gotten into some strong stuff myself. So I have some, few like heavy carry movements in there sometimes. And she doesn't like clockwork. So for me it's super fun to like spend a lot of time on stuff to create new things that make it challenging for her to improve essentially. So the. Yeah, so it's just been as far as that goes, honestly, I think, well, biasly, I will say I think it's been well rounded and a lot of this like you guys. As soon as I heard about met her, you guys were the first ones that I recommended. She's got me a bunch of gear from you guys. She bought all these supplements. So we're just like hardcore fans right now. And so I was wondering if I could ask a question in her regard, some more specific. So for example, we're, you know, she said with the scale and stuff that's been a huge, you know, give up. Essentially what we're both curious about is because I don't want to like tell her something wrong just because my professional opinion says one thing. But then her personal, you know, how she feels is different. So what I'm wondering is like specifically we're currently trying to get a better handle on how many days a week we work out. She used to work out like solid five, six, sometimes seven days a week. And she walks a shit ton, pardon my French. So the question is, I guess with her she works a very sedentary job the whole day, but she still hits like 15 to 17 in the summer up to 20,000 steps and does her little, like, walk runs, which sometimes drive me nuts, to be honest. Like, I tell her, just relax. Just, like, watch movie, have some. You know, let's work on some other hobbies maybe. So the question I guess I have is, do you guys think, does it seem feasible for us to actually work on. To have her take a legit. Not even an active rest day, just a rest day to just go for maybe not even a walk, but to just walk like I do and not like she does. She like, power walks all the time. Literally don't even break a sweat.
- [98:36]
Mandy
Or.
- [98:37]
Richard
Because it's a big stress management factor for her. Do you think that she should just continue to do that? Even though, obviously, from what I have known her now for, I don't think it's always the best thing to do, but it makes her mentally feel better. So.
- [98:51]
Mandy
No, no.
- [98:52]
Melissa
Great question.
- [98:53]
Mandy
Such a good question. Okay, so you got rid of the scale, and initially it was more stressful, but now it feels freeing. It feels freeing. Now that's what's going to happen if you take a real day off.
- [99:03]
Melissa
Yeah, for sure.
- [99:04]
Mandy
If you take a real day off. So here's what happens. When we have bad. When we have bad relationships with things, what we feel is it's making us better when in reality, we become slaves to that relationship. Then when you break off that relationship, initially it feels a little panic. Oh, my God, I'm not doing my thing. I feel worse. But then you start to feel more free. So I think a total day off would benefit you tremendously. Tremendously. I think it'll be huge. I think what you'll see is progress in the gym. You'll feel more energy, you'll feel more at peace, and you'll feel more free. Because just like you did from breaking the chain to the scale, it starts to feel freeing and you start to feel like, whoa, more alive and okay. And then you start to see in hindsight more clearly. I think that'll happen with the day off as well. As much as you exercise, as much as you do, a real day off where you just relax will be so good for you. Mental training, 100%. It'll be better for your mental state.
- [99:57]
Melissa
The healthiest part about that is the exercise and the ability for you to be okay when that happens. Happens, because it's not necessarily that walking every day was bad. Like, who do we ever tell? Like, oh, stop walking. That's too bad. Like, that's not a bad thing. But when you. When you obsess over it or when you can't not walk for a day.
- [100:15]
Mandy
Or it's scary to stop.
- [100:17]
Melissa
Yes. That's where, that's where the problem lies. And so it's more important to teach ourselves. It's like, just like what you've learned with the scale. Like, I, I would be okay if, you know, three months from now we hop on the scale just to check. But we wanted to break. Break that. I need to be on that scale. We want to break that. I need to go for this brisk walk every single day. It's like, no, you don't. You're an incredible shape. You're very healthy. You're very strong. You absolutely could watch movies all day today. And you want to be able to give yourself that permission for that, for that reason only. Not because I think what you're doing is quote, unquote, unhealthy or bad for you, but because you need to work on that relationship also. Just so you have that flexibility. And when you get through that, that you'll have the same feeling that you had when you broke that from the scale is that it's not the scale is bad. It's that the relationship that was with the scale is bad. The relationship with all the walking could be healthier, which is giving yourself that ability to take days off.
- [101:10]
Mandy
And I'll tell you, physiologically, you're probably going to, you probably need that time off also, just physically, you probably need that relaxing time as well with all the activity that you're doing.
- [101:18]
Melissa
Probably pick up knitting.
- [101:20]
Richard
So the, the, the hard, the hard thing is too. And I can very much relate to that. So that's why I'm very, like, careful when I'm like, ask her to do these things, because I know it's a very big ask for her. Even though for, like, I'm going to say the average person, it seems like, well, duh, let's just chill today. But the other thing is too, with a lot of her family, like, she kind of shares her love with workouts. I do the same. I burned out two times, really bad this year, personally. So I've kind of learned from my own mistakes, you could say. So I think that's also the challenge when she has friends, like, or family or so that, hey, let's get a workout in. Or sometimes we work, work out sometimes, like every once in a while. But it's like, let's maybe shift, like, let's go shop. Let's do something else besides working out to still spend quality time. So I basically, I hope. Okay, good.
- [102:04]
Mandy
No, no, you Can't. So you can't not do something. You can only do something. So what I mean by that is, okay, I'm not gonna walk. What is that? What else do I do now? So come up with something else that's growth minded, that allows you to relax, Relax. So maybe you're like, I'm gonna read a book or I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn a new skill or I'm gonna go sit in nature. So give yourself something to do in replace of. Otherwise what you're gonna do is you're sit there twiddling your thumbs and you'll be like, this is driving me crazy. So come up with something else. I like Yin yoga is great. Yin yoga is the kind of yo. It's not power yoga, it's not a stung. You're literally just sitting in stretches for a minute, two minutes. That's an idea. Meditation is good. Sitting in nature is good. Practice reading is good. You, your body to not move but still allow you to grow in other ways is typically a good, a good replacement.
- [102:56]
Richard
Okay, I, I have way too many hobbies, so I've been trying to gently have her like, hey, why don't you try this and this. She's like, nah. So we'll kind of keep working on that.
- [103:06]
Deborah
There's been baby steps, right?
- [103:08]
Melissa
You guys are, I am a type.
- [103:09]
Deborah
A, like super consistent and like you said, these are like kind of my mechanisms to kind of to cope with stress and whatnot. But yeah, the, so adding, taking away the scale, adding a few of the calories. Those have been big steps. And I used to run and now I only walk. So I feel like that's a good, very fast.
- [103:32]
Melissa
You're doing great.
- [103:32]
Mandy
You're doing so good. It's all, it's got to be encouraging, right? Like look back at how scary it was to not weigh yourself now. How amazing is it that you broke that, that, that attachment, Right? It's going to feel like that every step, every step's going to be that way. Challenging at first.
- [103:48]
Adam Schafer
The new training is really just for your mental health.
- [103:51]
Deborah
I did tell them, you know, like a couple weeks ago, I was like, I, okay, I do want my skills back. And I'm like, okay, you can hang on to them for a little longer. Because I think I recognize that if I had them back, I would split back into it, I think kind of quickly.
- [104:07]
Melissa
Yeah.
- [104:08]
Deborah
So I'm going to hold off on having them return them for now and just kind of sit. You know, it's that whole, I think it's just I'm very goal orientated. So sometimes the scale doesn't need to be the goal, I think is what I need to, you know, he's encouraged me to have strength, be the goal, and so that we continue to work on that.
- [104:32]
Mandy
So when people say I'm type A or when people say I'm goal oriented, it's typically code for I need to feel in control. And I need to feel like I can control things. So weighing myself, walking at this time, working out at this time, eating this food, Control, control, control. So this may, the deeper issue here may be just being able to not be in control. And it feels so good because what you try to control ends up controlling you. So it feels so good to just be like, oh, wow, I don't need to be. And the world didn't explode. And it's actually a lot better.
- [105:10]
Deborah
Well, we've built, I mean, I built a lot of trust in Richard because like that when he came into our small gym and we did boot camp classes and it was like that cardio hit type thing that, you know, we've learned we hate, you don't need to do. He came in and he's like all of a sudden, like, like adding a rest. And we were all like, you know, he'd come over and he'd hand us heavier weights and we'd look at each other and we're like, what is he doing? Like two minutes? Why are we resting?
- [105:41]
Mandy
Yeah, great job.
- [105:42]
Deborah
Yeah, I took a lot of trust in him.
- [105:44]
Melissa
So it's a great trainer.
- [105:45]
Mandy
Awesome.
- [105:46]
Melissa
You got a great trainer.
- [105:46]
Mandy
You got a good trainer for sure.
- [105:49]
Richard
I was one.
- [105:50]
Melissa
Do I have.
- [105:50]
Richard
Can I ask one more question?
- [105:51]
Mandy
Yeah, of course.
- [105:52]
Melissa
Go ahead, bro.
- [105:54]
Richard
Okay, so I wanted to, I, I wanted to say this quick.
- [105:57]
Mandy
So.
- [105:58]
Richard
So one of my best friends from college, Dr. Ryan Hanks, he introduced me to you guys first. So I need to give him a huge shout out. He's an amazing guy. He's actually in pretty decent conduct with Dr. Jordan Shallow as well. So they're like, some are working together down in Florida. Shallow is like an og and I've like watched every single piece of content this guy has. And then also one of my good friends is Josh Rafinsky. Adam, you, I mean, you meet thousands of people, but he met you at a convention in Florida, I think like last spring. So we both trained at the Lifetime here in Brookfield together. And yeah, so he's just a massive fan. He wanted, I wanted to say, to just tell you guys that he's also a big fan so my question is basically I have been very fortunate over the past seven years as being a trainer essentially that I have built a pretty successful business through the Lifetime brand here now it's very sustainable. I love all my clients and everything has a very good rhythm going. I'm always afraid of getting complacent and I want to keep growing in the industry and with my clients. So I wanted to ask you guys for I guess a more established trainer. Do you guys have any advice if I should like what, what. What else I could do to like be of more service essentially.
- [107:13]
Mandy
Oh, great question.
- [107:15]
Melissa
Are you doing anything virtually too? Is everything in person for you?
- [107:19]
Richard
So yes. So I have 26, 2026 people in person and I have currently four people online and Lifetime just developed their own online training app which allows us to actually record videos ourselves. So basically like you guys to put videos together, we just don't look as good as you guys. And then essentially create programs that way. So that is one of. That's my main goal for next year to grow my online content more that I have good programs so I can mentor people that way.
- [107:44]
Melissa
That's the main thing I would suggest you. You're already doing it sounds like you're doing an incredible job job already with all the people you have. You have a loaded book if you've got 26 clients. I know what that schedule looks like. The only other way I think you could potentially continue to grow and reach more is to branch out into virtual because then you can start to host webinars where hundreds of people show up and you know you can manage a lot more people virtually than you can in person. And so yeah, if you want to continue to grow and scale and, and reach more people, I do think that the online virtual direction is probably the direction you want to continue to go into. Are you're assuming you're. You're not in our course right now, are you Richard?
- [108:21]
Mandy
No.
- [108:22]
Melissa
So I mean you're. I don't want to disrupt Lifetime. Sounds like you got a good situation there. But one of the things that's going to be really we just soft launched to our coaches and trainers in there the software high level and what that is going to allow them do. It's basically a CRM to help trainers scale their business and they are going to be able to white label all of our stuff. So in other words you would be able to take the million dollars plus of assets that we've created, all the Maps programs and actually branded as your own to go out into the virtual World. And so that's something that. Yes. Yeah, that's something that we've been working on for over a year now. It is almost completely done. We've only. We've already rolled out the first version of it, which. Which is basically helping you with very clean UI email, email marketing and capturing leads and funnels and. Yeah, all that stuff.
- [109:09]
Richard
My own business. Business.
- [109:10]
Melissa
And we actually set it all up for you and you use all of our assets. So that's. Wow.
- [109:17]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, Just launched it. So check it out.
- [109:19]
Melissa
Show up to the webinars that Sal and I were doing because we'll talk about it.
- [109:22]
Mandy
We should have Ann or Kyle give him a call so if he's.
- [109:25]
Melissa
Yeah, I can do that. I can have Ann or Kyle talk to you. Talk to you and show you what it looks like. If that's ever a direction you want to go. Because that's our main focus next year is to really help all of our coaches and trainers who need to scale their businesses.
- [109:37]
Adam Schafer
Yep, that's.
- [109:39]
Richard
That's bonkers. Yeah, I, that was the. The only other thing step up from life would be to do something independently. And a while ago when shit went south at the other gym, I was thinking about that. But I just love coworkers and I love the, the big box environment. We have like over 8,000 members here plus like 25 full time trainers. So I love every single person on the team. So it's like that's the only thing where I'd be like, well, if I do my own gig and online. But anyway, that, that sounds incredible though. I would definitely be interested to check that out.
- [110:07]
Melissa
Yeah, we'll. We'll reach out, Richard. I'll make sure reach out to you.
- [110:10]
Richard
Okay.
- [110:11]
Melissa
All right, thank you. Thanks for the follow. Did a great job.
- [110:14]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [110:14]
Melissa
Yes. Thank you.
- [110:15]
Mandy
Appreciate it.
- [110:16]
Melissa
Yeah, super happy for you guys.
- [110:17]
Richard
Thank you so much.
- [110:18]
Melissa
All right.
- [110:19]
Mandy
I love these follow ups. Yeah, yeah, they're great.
- [110:22]
Melissa
Yeah, that's cool.
- [110:23]
Mandy
Yeah, I remember, remember she was in her gym when she called us.
- [110:25]
Melissa
I totally remember. I totally remembered. I remember the abusive relationship. I remember the look on her face when I said that to her. It was like this. Oh, yeah, that's awesome.
- [110:33]
Mandy
But I mean, it's freeing, you know? Know, it's so freeing to break those chains, but it's so scary and you feel like it's gonna be worse when in fact it's a lot better. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is mindpumpjustin. I'm mindpump distefano. Adam's mindpump Adam thank you for listening to Mind Pump.
- [110:52]
Sal DeStefano
If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted R RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB super bundle is like having six Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.