2515: How to Become a Successful Trainer in 2025

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Episode 2515: How to Become a Successful Trainer in 2025
Release Date: January 20, 2025

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Overview

In Episode 2515 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve into the essential strategies and insights required to thrive as a personal trainer in 2025. Drawing from their extensive combined experience of over 40 years in the fitness industry, the hosts dismantle common myths and provide actionable, science-backed advice to aspiring and current trainers aiming to build a successful and sustainable career.

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Industry Growth and Demand for Trainers

Sal Di Stefano kicks off the discussion by highlighting the promising growth prospects for personal trainers:

Sal [03:14]: "The Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts a 39% increase in employment growth for personal trainers."

This surge far exceeds the average 8% growth seen across most careers, indicating a robust demand fueled by societal health challenges.

Adam Schafer attributes this growth to the ongoing issues of obesity and chronic diseases:

Adam [03:26]: "The ever-increasing epidemic of obesity and chronic disease is driving the need for more personal trainers."

The aging population also contributes significantly, with older individuals seeking assistance to maintain mobility and overall health.

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The Unique Value of Personal Trainers

The hosts emphasize that personal trainers offer unique value that technology and automated solutions cannot replicate. Doug Egge elaborates on the irreplaceable human connection trainers provide:

Doug [04:59]: "The demand for human connection, especially regarding mental health and personalized fitness, ensures trainers remain invaluable."

Personal trainers not only guide clients through physical transformations but also support their mental well-being, offering a holistic approach to health that machines cannot emulate.

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Trends Impacting the Training Industry

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the impact of GLP1 medications (e.g., Ozempic, Wegovy) on the fitness industry. Adam Schafer and Doug Egge explore how these drugs influence client behavior and the subsequent need for trainers:

Adam [07:55]: "Instead of solving the obesity epidemic, GLP1s are attracting clients who still require personalized coaching to maintain muscle mass and overall health."

The introduction of such medications is seen as a catalyst that may further boost the demand for skilled trainers who can provide comprehensive support beyond what medications offer.

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Key Steps to Building a Successful Trainer Career

1. Understand Your Numbers [13:39 - 19:22]

Doug Di Stefano underscores the importance of trainers knowing their business metrics:

Doug [13:50]: "To build any business, you need to know your numbers—how many opportunities turn into sales, your margins, lead generation rates."

By meticulously tracking metrics such as client acquisition rates, conversion rates, and average revenue per client, trainers can create a replicable and scalable business model. This quantitative approach demystifies the business side of training, allowing trainers to set precise goals and strategies.

2. Master Sales Skills [20:01 - 25:41]

Despite personal trainers' natural inclination to help rather than sell, Doug emphasizes that sales skills are crucial:

Doug [23:56]: "As a trainer, you're going to be selling your clients all the time—not just for services, but for lifestyle changes and continued commitment."

Effective communication and sales techniques enable trainers to convey the value of their services, handle objections, and close deals, ensuring a steady client base and financial stability.

3. Continual Education [25:41 - 32:20]

Ongoing education is vital for maintaining expertise and passion in the fitness industry. Doug advises:

Doug [29:01]: "Educate yourself regularly. Every year you're a trainer, you should take or do some course. The best trainers would do them like twice a year."

Staying updated with the latest fitness trends, certifications, and business strategies not only enhances a trainer’s skill set but also keeps them motivated and engaged with their profession.

4. Find a Mentor [32:42 - 41:04]

Mentorship plays a pivotal role in a trainer’s development. Doug shares his approach to mentorship:

Doug [34:40]: "Find somebody and find a way to work for them, typically for free, and watch what happens."

By learning from experienced professionals, trainers can acquire invaluable insights, enhance their skills, and build a solid foundation for their careers.

5. Build and Leverage a Network [41:04 - 42:22]

Networking extends a trainer's influence and opportunities. Doug explains how building relationships with other health professionals can solidify a trainer’s reputation:

Doug [41:04]: "I became known as the personal trainer for doctors and chiropractors because of that process. It was like I spent zero dollars in advertising."

A robust network facilitates client referrals and collaborative opportunities, ensuring a steady stream of business without significant advertising expenditures.

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Certifications and Education Recommendations

When questioned about the best certifications, the hosts recommend a strategic combination:

Justin Andrews [43:30]: "The triple threat comprises NASM CPT, NASM CES, and our own course focused on sales and business communication."

Doug further elaborates on the value of practical certifications over traditional degrees:

Doug [44:01]: "Unless you're going to be a physical therapist or work in a corporate setting requiring a degree, national certifications and practical courses should suffice."

This approach emphasizes acquiring certifications that offer the most applicable knowledge and business skills, ensuring trainers are well-equipped to serve their clients effectively.

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Career Path: Big Box Gym vs. Private Studio

Choosing the right workplace setting is crucial for career growth. Doug strongly advocates starting at a big box gym:

Doug [46:12]: "If you're getting started, especially at a big box gym, you're dumb not to start there. They handle advertising and lead generation, allowing you to focus on training clients."

In contrast, moving to a private studio is recommended only after gaining sufficient experience and business acumen:

Doug [48:54]: "Go to a private studio when you know what you're doing and have built your business."

This path ensures that trainers build their client base and refine their skills within a supportive environment before venturing into independent ventures.

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Takeaways and Resources

Sal Di Stefano wraps up the episode with actionable takeaways and resources:

• Free Webinars: Hosted every other month at trainerwebinar.com focusing on topics like making money through social media.
• Certifications: Emphasis on NASM CPT, NASM CES, and Mind Pump’s own business-focused courses.
• Networking: Building a network of health professionals to enhance referrals and mentorship opportunities.

Justin Andrews also highlights the importance of continuous learning and practical application to prevent imposter syndrome and maintain confidence in one’s abilities.

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Conclusion

Episode 2515 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth offers a comprehensive roadmap for personal trainers aspiring to build successful careers in 2025. By understanding industry growth, mastering sales, committing to continual education, seeking mentorship, and leveraging networking opportunities, trainers can navigate the complexities of the fitness industry and achieve sustained success. The hosts provide both strategic insights and practical advice, making this episode an invaluable resource for anyone looking to excel in the personal training field.

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For more insights and resources, follow the Mind Pump hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug, or visit mindpumppodcast.com.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

If you want to pump your body.

[D]

And expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[C]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[D]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode. We're talking about how to become a successful trainer in 2025. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor, Vuori Vuori makes Athleisure wear that is amazing. Looks good, feels good, comfortable, lasts a long time. And our link gives you the biggest discount you'll find anywhere. Go to vuoriclothing.com mindpump on that link. You'll get 20% off. We also have some workout program bundles. This month we have the new to Weightlifting Bundle, the Body Transformation Bundle, the New Year Extreme Intensity Bundle, and the Body Transformation Bundle. All of them are $300 or more off massive discounts. You can find all of them@maps January.com Also, free trainer webinars every other month. The next one is March 4th. We're going to talk about making money on social media for trainers and coaches. Sign [e-mail] all right, here comes the show. You love fitness, you love people. You're thinking about making it a career. In today's episode, we're gonna talk about how you can become a a successful, effective trainer in 2025. Let's go. Yeah, let's do it. So this is. I love this topic because obviously it's near and dear to our hearts. We were trainers.

[E]

It's our mission.

[D]

That's how we started in this industry. We've now been working in this industry for well over two decades, two and a half decades. It still is one of my favorite things I've ever done. Love doing it. And it's actually. Well, I say actually because a lot of people don't know is an incredible potential career that People can embark on, but you got to do it right. Because if you don't do it right, it can actually become a very difficult career and have a very high turnover rate. So I brought up some statistics just to kind of illustrate the potential here. Right. So when you look at the, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, they will give predictions on growth for different career market industries. Different industries. On average, any given career has about 8% growth over the next 10 years. Okay. So. Well, they started in 2020, so 20, 20, 20, 30. But 8% growth on average. So that's most careers. Okay. That's the average. The Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts 39% increase in employment growth for personal trainers.

[E]

Really?

[D]

39% higher than I would have thought. That is much bigger.

[F]

That has to reflect, Sal. The ever increasing epidemic of obesity.

[D]

Right.

[F]

And chronic disease and stuff like that. Right. We seem to be struggling with that still. So I would imagine that that's where that, that number is coming from.

[D]

Yeah. When they, when you read about this, what they'll say is two things. There's an aging population, so the largest segment of the population is aging. And they have expendable income. They need help with fitness, with strength training, in particular mobility. And then you hit the nail on the head, Adam. Chronic health issues, both physical and mental. This is another one a lot of people don't talk about. Mental health issues. Things like anxiety and depression. All of those not looking so good. And when you look at the ways that we could treat them. Right. The, the solutions, the cures, the medications, nothing compares to becoming more fit and healthy.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

We're finding our way back to, to what we knew to be true. And it's, it's unfortunate that we've sort of lost our way. And, and you've seen, you know, the numbers and the statistics of how unhealthy everybody is right now, and especially the, you know, the, the mental state that a lot of these people are in. It's, it's, it's frustrating because, you know, all along it's like, you know, this is something that we know to be true and we have to, like, shout it at people to get their attention.

[F]

It's all. I also think that it falls under the kind of blue collar category where AI isn't. It doesn't seem to be disrupting it the same way as it is disrupting text. Right.

[D]

Like, it's only going to encourage its growth.

[F]

Especially when you point, like you brought up that needs human connection, not just chronic disease, but also the mental side. And that is like It's a moving target, and it's so unique to the individual that an algorithm or an AI tool can't solve the problem. Like, this is where I think trainers will continue to be invaluable. It's just like, yeah, we can, we can create all these sophisticated apps and AI to print off meal plans, but, I mean, we've had the ability to give people meal plans for years. What have we been saying, right?

[D]

That's.

[F]

That's not the way to have a successful client in the first place, is to just write a meal plan. I. If it was that simple, like, no client would need more than one session with me. We'd sit right down, they'd tell me, I'd do all their assessment and go, oh, this is your problem. This is where your cow here, follow these calories, do these exercises. If it was that easy, then I wouldn't be needed. I wouldn't have been needed 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

[D]

No, if. If people were computers, it would be that easy.

[E]

But we're humans, and we're starving for human connection. I mean, that's what this whole pandemic taught us. It's like we need each other.

[D]

It's coaching, it's guidance, it's working with the individual. And it's not about having the answers. That's part of. That's a small part of it. A small part of it is knowing the right answers. The larger part of it is how do you coach and guide people through this process to developing these relationships with fitness and diet and lifestyle that last them for the rest of their life? And working with a human coach is the best way to do it. Someone who's good, it's the best way to do it. And replacing that with AI isn't going to happen anytime soon. So this is a protected space as well, just like you said, Adam. It's a very protected space. And the demand for it is increasing, as they're saying 39% precisely because society is not organized in a way to make you healthy. It's actually organized in a way to make you unhealthy. It's organized to. To make you sedentary. The food that is most popular, that's most produced is not good for us. Education around health isn't great. And just living your life, just going to work and looking at entertainment and getting on social media, whatever, just doing the normal stuff, you are going to be unhealthy both physically and mentally. That's why we continue to see that growth. So having a coach there that can Help you navigate the world and teach you how to navigate the world and coach you along. That process is absolutely invaluable. And the awareness around it continues to grow, which is why I think there's such, you know, high predicted growth rate is because people are now becoming more aware, like, oh, I know fitness is good, I know eating healthy is good, but I know that I probably need to work with someone to be able to guide me through this process.

[F]

I actually think there's another factor that could cause this to go even, even further than 39%. And because I don't know if these were factored in when they did these numbers, but what we're learning about what's happening with GLP1s is a bit the opposite of what you would have probably thought initially. I think initially people thought, oh, my God, GLP1s. Everyone's going to use that. And that's just going to be the answer. Everyone's going to lose weight.

[E]

Solve the epidemic.

[F]

Yeah, it'll just solve the. Solve it. But I'm like, no, I don't think that's what we're seeing. What we're seeing is more people that wouldn't have gone to the gym and worked out are opting to try these GLP1s. What they're finding is if you do that and you don't hire a coach and trainer, you don't have the knowledge around nutrition, you don't strength train, then you end up losing as much muscle as you lose body fat and you end up needing support and help anyways. And because it's attracting a different type of a client than what we're used to, I think we're going. That's only going to grow even faster.

[D]

It's going to bring more people to trainers. Actually, that's what they're finding. So the. The experts that we work with who've been working with the GLP1s, like Ozempic, WeGovy. What they're telling us is that the patients that are working with them aren't initially not interested in hiring a trainer. They use a GLP one, they see some weight loss, and it's like a spark of inspiration. They say, you know what? I think I can do this. I'm gonna hire a coach now. I'm gonna hire a trainer, work with them and the trainers that we work with. So we work with a lot of trainers and coaches. Obviously. We've had this podcast for over a decade, and there's a large segment or a significant segment of our audience are trainers and Coaches and they're letting us know, oh, my God, I'm getting more clients as a result. So I agree with you, Adam. I think this growth is only going to continue to grow, and I think it's probably going to be faster than the 39% that even if it's stuck at 39, but even if it went down to 25% though, still a lot, this is a great potential career. Now, the challenge is that the problem is there's a high turnover rate. So the ones that stick around and make it do well, the ones that stick around that figure out how to make this a career, it's incredibly rewarding. I mean, it's so rewarding to go to work every day and to have people show up because they want to be there, they want to work with you, and their goal is to improve themselves. Ultimately, it's to improve themselves, and you help them do that. And if you do a good job, it's so rewarding. You know how many people go to work every day and they don't get that feedback? They don't get that feedback that they're making the world a better place. Their boss isn't telling them every single day. They're not seeing the fruits of their labor turn into something like that. But when you're a trainer, I mean, I trained people for a long time. Every single day when I worked with clients, I would get that feeling and it was so rewarding that probably would do it for free if I never had to work again. To some extent. Right.

[E]

That's how rewarding crafting TPS reports.

[D]

Yeah, way better.

[F]

I mean, it's, it's built in purpose and it's kind of like how we always talk about when you're helping a client, how important it is that you attach all the other things about fitness that are so important to keep them going forever. I think it's similar with coaches and trainers. Like, it's nice, okay, you have a job, you get paid for doing what you're doing. But it's like, oh, the fact that you are making the world a better place, you're changing lives positively, has this built in purpose now that makes it rewarding. It makes it greater than the income, makes it greater than the just showing up for the hours I have to service every day, which is, I think, is a hack to being happy for a career because you have purpose. I don't care how much money you make, sooner or later, your lifestyle levels up to that. And it's kind of the same whether you're making 70 grand or 300 grand or a half a million or a million dollars. Like you just level up your lifestyle and you still gotta show up to work to get the income to pay for that lifestyle. And when it's you're doing something that you don't enjoy, you have a hard time finding purpose in, it's really tough to stay motivated and happy.

[D]

That's right. And we talked about the mental health benefits. Now the data on this is very, very supportive. Now it's quite conclusive that one of the best ways to improve your mental health across the board is to become more fit and more healthy, more effective than any medical intervention for the common forms of mental health issues. It's as effective in the short term, the data will show, but long term, it trends better, obviously, because you don't get this like, you know, down regulation of receptors, need to change the medication. Like you just continue to grow and become better and more fit and more healthy. And even if your fitness doesn't improve like 10 years later. Right. You're not going to always get stronger, more fit. The growth process through this, this discipline never ends. And so what this results in is clients showing up and getting happier and enjoying it more, and they love seeing you even more. The clients that I had for 10 years enjoyed training with me 10 years later more than they did in the first month. So it's so rewarding to do this. Now, again, I do want to reiterate, it has a high turnover rate because if you don't figure out how to do this right, it's, it feels almost impossible to turn into a career. Now, if you do this right, you will have an incredible career. Now, the data shows that the average annual pay for trainers who stick around is between 42 to $75,000 a year. So you have a decent career. Career if you're in the average. But I'm gonna tell you this myself, having trained many trainers myself, you could do way better than that. Sure, if you do things the right way. And I'm not talking about training, you know, 16 people a day or something crazy like, you could do very well working normal hours, having the flexibility of building your own schedule and having a very stable client base.

[E]

Just gotta learn how to maximize all your opportunities and all your efforts going forward. And that's something that you need direction. And so you need to, you know, really find, you know, the right plan and craft that out. So that way you make those, those, the hedge hedges forward with that.

[D]

Yeah. So the first thing I would say to understand, to be Successful and we'll say in 2025 is to know your numbers. And now that sounds kind of vague. Right?

[F]

So glad you said that.

[D]

This is big because first off, to build any business, you need to know your numbers. You need to know how many opportunities turn into sales, which, you know, what your margins are. You need to know how many people, let's say your company needs to approach, like what's my return rate on my ad spend, for example, or how many leads that we need to generate in order to turn into this many clients. Like, the reason why I'm saying this is that most trainers, all the trainers that don't succeed don't know this.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

And most, most trainers, when they first get started, don't even know that they need to know this. What trainers tend to think is I'm just going to get clients and I'm sure train clients. And if I want more clients, I'm just going to work harder. And if I want to make more money, then that means I need to work harder and get more clients. Well, yeah, duh. Yeah, but that's like telling somebody that needs to lose weight, just eat less. Right. And move more. It doesn't work. You need to know your numbers. So you need to figure out what, what does this look like? What is my, what does my number need to look like per month? And then how do I get to that? And you can boil it all the way back to how many people do I need to talk to versus and how many does that turn into appointments and how many of those appointments show up and how many of those appointments actually hire me and what's my average dollar per unit? And then I can just say, in order to make this much money, I need to talk to five people a day, Literally. You could get that precise with it. And if you apply it in that way, you will hit exactly what you need to earn.

[F]

Yeah. This is, it's so crazy that trainers have a hard time grasping this. Yet they teach clients all day long how important it is that they understand their protein intake and their fat and their carbohydrates and their calories. If your client never learns their calorie budget or maintenance or understand how many grams of protein they needed every eat every day, they will not be successful. And most trainers know that. They know they have to teach that to their client, yet they fail to to teach themselves their show percentage, their close percentage, their average dollar per sale and figure out their business model. It's like that is the, the, that is your protein, carbs and fat to your business.

[E]

Yeah, those are tangibles.

[F]

You have to figure that out. And not only do you have to figure that out to then have a plan, like Sal's saying, like, oh, I guess it takes me 10 people that I have to talk to for five people to get on an appointment. And of those five people that I booked on an appointment, only two of them are going to probably show up. And of the two of them, maybe only one of them will purchase something at an average of $500, and everybody is going to have different numbers there. But figuring out what yours is and then reverse engineering it, like you're saying, then the next layer to that is, where do I go and improve? So some people are really good. They. They're approachable, they're charismatic. They can walk up to people in the mall. They can walk up to people in the gym and strike up conversation. And within five minutes, man, I like Sal. He's just a. He's just a warm person. He seems really intelligent. So he does a really good job of convincing every person he talks to to show up to their appointment or at least book an appointment with them. And then he does a great job of following up on that person. So the 10 people he books, all 10 of them show up. But he gets really nervous when he talks about money because he didn't get into this about money. He got into this to help people. And, oh, when it comes to selling, it's like. And so, you know, 10 people show up, but then only one. Okay, well, there's a huge opportunity for me to improve my skills with my presentation and communicating my services and building value in what I have to offer. So there's where I'm investing in myself, Whether it is getting a mentorship who's going to help me there, or learning with courses or whatever it takes. That's where I need to pursue. You got to know that stuff first before you even know how to work on yourself to be better.

[D]

So let's use the numbers that you originally gave to make this real simple. So you said fictional numbers. Talk to 10 people, and I will book five appointments. And out of those five appointments to tend to show up. And I always tend to sell or close 50% of them. So one will buy. And my average per unit is $500. So boom, $500. If I talk to 10 people, I'm going to make $500?

[F]

Yes.

[D]

How many people are you to talk to you if I want to make $1,000?

[F]

Right.

[D]

20 people.

[F]

Right.

[D]

Okay. It's literally that easy. You've taken the mystery out of building your business. I can now say to myself, I'm making $500 a month. I want to make $1500 a month. I'm going to go talk to 30 people. I need to talk to 30 people. And guess what's going to happen? It's going to turn into very close to fifteen hundred dollars. And then of course, what Adam said, it gets a little bit more detailed. I could just say, well, I'm only going to talk to 10. I don't want to talk to 20. But out of the 10, you know, three people show up. Let me see if I can do a better job and get six people to show up. Now I've, now I've got, I've thousand dollars without having to talk to 20 people to get more people, tweak your.

[E]

Tactics and figure out this, you know, how to get them to show up. Like that's going to make a big difference.

[D]

Or I could just, I mean, obviously this might be an easy way. I could double my price. Now I get one and it's $1,000. Right? So the point is, you know your numbers, know your numbers inside and out because then what you do to build your business doesn't isn't some, some mystery. I could just literally every single day say today my goal is to talk to X amount of people because I know what that's going to turn into.

[F]

Any CEO or founder of a company, 100% gets this. If you're a trainer who aspires to build a legitimate business one day and you want to scale beyond just yourself, you will have to learn this. So you may as well start now. And if you're definitely going to have a successful business at one point, you're going to start to piece this together. So it's always the first. When I get in a room of trainers that I'm talking to, it's the first thing I always ask and it is the number one thing that is not answered. Nobody knows, nobody knows what that is. And the rare time that I run into somebody who does, it's always the most successful trainer in the building.

[D]

You know, I mean, just a little side, you know, just going off to the side here. If you're a fitness manager or a gym manager, this is an easy way, easy way to manage your fitness staff. You just figure this out for your trainers and then you just tell your trainers, I don't worry about how much your sales need to be. You just need to talk to 20 people. Bring me 20 names today because you Know the numbers for them, they do it, you'll hit those numbers. That's how effective this is.

[F]

This is how I figured that out. So I tell the story of, you know, when I first started at 24 Hour Fitness, I was the youngest, I was the least experienced, I was the least educated. So here I am managing a staff of 20 trainers that I don't have a lot to give them. I don't have experience to lean on to tell them all the stories of the clients that I've changed their lives. I don't have a lot of education behind me to talk about all the certifications, courses and degrees that I have so I could make them smarter. The thing I did have was I understood business. I was, I've been a serial entrepreneur since I was a kid and I understood that I needed to know this. And it was very apparent to me that none of these trainers knew that. And so I leaned heavily into this direction of helping them understand this and grasp this. That was why I was successful. It was not because I was a great trainer, wasn't because I was super knowledgeable. That stuff came later with experience and the education and the, and experience and the experience of training clients and certifications I got later. But early on that wasn't it. It was this, this ability to be able to help trainers peer in it and to distill it down to not feel like this sale salesy money talk and just I got to meet five people. And that's exactly how I held them all accountable, is we would fit figure that out about each individual trainer that worked for me. And then I would walk up to them every day and be like, justin, did you, did you meet your eight people today? Sal, did you meet your six people today? Because you would. And I would allow them. You tell me how much you want to make. You want to make five grand a month, you make ten grand a month, you tell me. I'm not going to tell you what your, your lifestyle, your goals or your income should be. You tell me and then I will help you figure out what it takes to do that. And then as your boss, I will help you hold you accountable to the daily work that's necessary to do that. And I'm not gonna pressure you about sales including. My job is to help you get better at that, which I will, but all I really want you to do is to do the work, which is go talk to five people.

[D]

Great. And that brings us to the next thing which you just mentioned, which is learn sales. This is a bad dirty word. For personal trainers. And I get it, right, You're a trainer, you wanna help people. I didn't do this to sell anything. Sales is. I hate salespeople. I just wanna help people. Well, I hate to break this to you, but as a trainer, you're going to be selling your clients all the time. And I don't mean selling them to buy things. That's true too, because they need to hire you come back. You need to sell them on changing their lifestyle. You need to sell them on changing behaviors. You need to sell them on showing up. You need to sell them on why it's okay that the scale didn't go down this month because they got stronger or because they feel better or because you need to take a break. You need to understand sales score skills. Or to put it differently, you need to understand how to communicate effectively. Now, ultimately, this does turn into a more successful business from a monetary standpoint because when you sit down to talk to a potential client, if you know how to present and you how to close and you know how to sell, you're gonna be far more successful. But make no mistake, if you're selling nothing for a dollar amount, all you're doing is training people. You're selling them constantly. Remember, you're coaching people on a day to day basis on why they need to change the way that they're living. And the way to do that is through strong, effective communication skills, through convincing them effectively over a period of time. So sales skills are extremely valuable. This for me, when I manage gyms, the majority of the training that I do on my trainers was this. This was a majority. Like when we did our weekly trainings, it was sales trainings because the return on it was huge, both in the client's results and success and retention of the trainers and the trainer.

[E]

You can't keep doing it if you're not bringing any money home.

[D]

That's right.

[E]

And that's. I love that when I used to work for Adam and he'd point out exactly how to manipulate my paycheck, it's like, how do you want to increase? What's your number you want to bring home this month? And then we'd come up with that number of how many people I'd bring in and, you know, really go through those numbers. And I just feel like trainers are scared to do that because we're so focused on helping and servicing clients. And you do want to obviously provide the best service possible, be educated. It's going to make the sales process a lot easier because you're Going to have a lot of good answers for them and a lot of direction and competency. But to be able to communicate that, keep them coming back, that's what keeps you going.

[F]

It's so weird how sales got such a dirty reputation. I don't. Is it because of the 80s and 90s and early 2000s of car salesmen and, like, stock guy? Like, is that where it's a visual lack of integrity?

[D]

You know, people think, oh, you're trying to trick me.

[F]

It's just. It has. It has a really bad rep. But you say it so well when you explain it as all sales is effective communication. And the reason why you spent so much, most of your time doing that, and I did too, or teaching that was because I don't care if you had all the certifications and all the degrees. If you can't effectively communicate, you're no better than the trainer that doesn't know.

[D]

Right. Right.

[F]

So it's still. It appli. It applies as much to that trainer. It's not as simple as, like. Because you could. You could be really good at the science and understanding how to help the client in front of you, but if you can't get somebody in front of you, it doesn't do shit.

[D]

And if they don't hire you.

[F]

And so you have to be. You have to be a good communicator. And so that is why. That's all that. Why all the time I spent was teaching sales. Because even the really educated trainer wasn't necessarily a good trainer if they didn't know how to communicate that information to the people.

[D]

Yeah. So, you know, it's funny, I used to say this too. When I would have a group of trainers, especially when I was a new manager to these trainers, I would say something like, how easy would it be for you guys to sell a home here in san Jose for $5,000? If I. If I gave you guys a house and said, sell this for five grand, how easy would it be for you? Sell it? And they'd say, oh, my God, it's. I'd sell it right away because the value is so huge. Right. Houses in San Jose, or even a crappy one's a million dollars. So $5,000, I could sell that, no problem. I said, okay, that's because you know the value.

[E]

I'd be skeptical.

[D]

Yeah.

[F]

What's in that house?

[E]

Who owned this house? How many ghosts are now?

[D]

If you. If what we understand about health and fitness, how much it could change someone's life. Right. There is. There's almost nothing in your life, that won't improve if you become more fit and healthy. We know this. So the value is tremendous. The problem is the person sitting across from desk from you doesn't really understand. They kind of get it, but they don't know what it's going to take. They don't even know if it's possible, what it's going to look like. But you do, right? You have that understanding. And now imagine if you could just take that understanding from your mind, plug it into their mind. They buy from you right out the gate. Right away, if I could just take my brain, plug it into theirs for a second, then they go, oh, my God, done deal. Let me hire you. I'm going to train with you for the next three years. Well, unfortunately, we can't do that. We have to use words. That's effective communication. If I can communicate this effectively, that person will get the value of what I'm selling and then they'll hire me and it's a done deal. And so sales skills allow you to do that. And so you need to practice your presentation, practice asking for money, practice overcoming objections. It is a skill that you can develop. I know some people also. This is another, another thing that people kind of have a misunderstanding around. People tend to think that sales is something or sales skills is something you have or you don't. Now, it's true there are some people that are more talented than others, but it is a skill you can completely develop, definitely. So, so don't just think to yourself, like, I'm not good at that, so therefore I'm never going to be good at it. No, I've taken the worst salespeople and gotten them to be somewhat effective. And then I've taken talented people and turned them into absolute superstars. So this is a skill you could develop. It just takes practice and knowing that it's really valuable. Next up is to educate yourself. Now, this one, I don't tend to need to convince trainers and coaches, at least with this one. Most trainers and coaches know, like, this is important, but part of the reason why this is important, okay, the obvious number one is you know more. So you know more. You have more tools in your tool belt, you become a better trainer or a better coach. But here's the other side of it that a lot of people don't realize, which is continuing to educate yourself keeps you passionate about fitness. It's funny because every time I'd have my group of trainers go do some certification, they would all come back and sure enough, on the workout Floor. All my trainers are applying what they just learned on their clients, and they're excited about it and passionate about it, and all the clients are excited about it as well. Wow. I'm doing this new, you know, stretch technique. I'm doing this new correctional exercise thing. I'm doing this new whatever because my trainers learned it. So educating yourself isn't just about becoming better and knowing more. That's a big part of it. It's also about keeping that passion that you have alive, because as you continue to do this, you will lose that passion if you don't learn more of these skills. So educating yourself is extremely important. It needs to be done on a very regular basis.

[F]

Educate and apply. So this is the fastest way to avoid imposter syndrome. I think maybe the number one thing I hear from trainers that when they first get started is this. How do you avoid imposter syndrome? And what that comes from is a lack of confidence in your ability. What that comes from is a lack of effort, work, and time put in of doing the work. You won't be, you will not have imposter syndrome if you've gone and done it. Yeah. So first of all, it's okay to not know because you haven't. Haven't done something. So it's okay to admit that. So that's another reason why you have people that have imposter syndrome. Because they're lying, because they're pretending. They're pretending to be something they're not, or they're pretending they know something that they don't know. And if you don't, okay, so first step is, I don't know. I'll find out. Go find out. Go apply. You now know. So the next time someone's asked that you won't have imposter syndrome, you do it. So the fastest way to get through that is to educate and apply and learn and grow and keep doing that, and you won't have that. And when you run into the situations, which, by the way, 20 years deep in this. We just had a talk with somebody recently where you'll hear me still say that, I don't know, that's above my pay grade or I'd send you over here because I'm not sure about that. Like, you got. Like that never ends. Never. 20 years of certifications and practicing and learning and kind of a pretty smart guy when it comes to this space. I still will say that. You can't be afraid to say that. And then what happens is I then go learn and then I go reach out Or I go learn for somebody who does know, then the next time when that question comes, I won't have imposter syndrome. One, because I didn't lie the first time. Two, I will have the answer because I've experienced it and I've applied. So go do that. You won't have imposter syndrome.

[D]

The most valuable places to educate yourself are going to be courses that teach you about business coaching techniques and correctional exercise. So there's lots of certifications, they're all going to be valuable and some are more valuable than others, depending on the space that you're in. Right. If you're, if you're training primarily athletes, well, then it's going to be more athletic minded type, you know, education courses, but generally speaking, courses on building business courses on coaching and working with people. Correctional exercise in my experience is valuable in all spaces of fitness, whether it's high level athletic performance or rehab or general population correctional exercise, extremely valuable. Then there's national certifications which, especially if you work in a big box gym, require you to get. And then if you're in one of those places that has national Certs or requires national certs, you want to find courses that give you CEUs or credits to maintain your national certifications. And oftentimes one or two courses a year will allow you to do that. But educate yourself regularly. Every single year you're a trainer, you should take or do some course every year. I know they say every two years, but I used to tell my trainers every year do at least one. And the best trainers that work for me would do them like twice a year.

[F]

By the way, that's tax deductible too.

[D]

Yeah, it's your business.

[F]

Yes. So that's in educating yourself in on your business like that. So certifications and courses are something that you can write off on your taxes. A lot of trainers, for some reason.

[D]

When you're doing your plan for each year, you should literally part of your plan for the years, oh, 20, 25, what am I going to learn this year? Do that every single year. You'll become.

[F]

I remember when we first met Ben Greenfield, Ben Greenfield had a dollar amount that he's just like every year I minimum spend $60,000. Obviously he's at another level than most trainers are. But maybe that starts off with 500 or a thousand or five thousand for you, but he had a dollar amount that every year I invest at least that much into my education and learning every year.

[D]

Next in this right here is just always consistently understated and I think this has to be one of the most valuable things I ever did for myself and I ever saw for trainers that work for me, and that's to find a mentor. I mean, there is almost nothing that actually, in fact, I can't even think of something that will compare to a good mentor at improving your skills and getting you on the fast track to success, like having a mentor. So what does this look like? Do you just walk up to someone and say, will you mentor me? I mean, maybe. But really, what it usually looks like is you go find someone, maybe a great trainer or a chiropractor or a massage therapist or a physical therapist or someone who does nutrition, maybe a certified nutritionist, somebody that does a phenomenal job. You go up to them, you offer to work for them, or usually work for them for free. And so I would find people and I'd say, hey, I'd love to, you know, for 10 hours a week, let me come be around you, work for you. And just the reason why I want to do this is I just want to be around you so I could just hear and listen to what you're doing. And if you want to teach me something, that's fine, but I just want to be around you because I need to learn some of these skills or I want to be able to communicate some of these things. I mean, I had the opportunity. I had my own wellness studio at the time when I opened it, I was a personal trainer, just straightforward personal trainer. I knew strength training, I knew endurance training, I knew macros. That was about it. But I had all these incredible people working in my studio that worked from different modalities. And over the next 15 years, they didn't realize it. I don't even know if I told any of them, but I learned from watching and listening to the acupuncturist, the massage therapist to the physical therapist that all worked within my studio. They all mentored me and really developed me into the voice you hear now in the podcast. So if you're a trainer, you'll be successful, find somebody and find a way to work for them for free, typically, and watch what happens.

[E]

So you have to like them.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. Did you have one?

[E]

Yeah, I had somebody that I knew how successful this individual was and what he was charging his clients. And I was obsessed because I was like, you know, I'm. I prided myself in my education background and just the type of high level service I was providing my clients and the success rate they had. But meanwhile, this guy's making like crazy money and he's selling, he's actually getting people to buy his training. At this price point, I'm like, okay, so I just sort of frenemied him and deconstructed his business. You know, he, I ended up doing some business with him because there has to be a mutually beneficial partnership on some level, even if it's like, you know, I'm not like a total predator, you know, seeking out his business. But I ended up working with him for quite a bit and taught me how to build and develop my website, how to optimize it, how to run Google Ads, like how to do all these things business wise that I just was lacking in terms of, you know, being an independent trainer, learning this, all this stuff on my own. But it was huge for me to learn that and go through that process and did that all just, you know, begrudgingly because I had to hang out with the guy. I didn't really like the guy, but I had to do this for the business. I knew that this was going to benefit me overall.

[F]

I, you know, a lot of my story and experience when talking about the mentorship resonates with Jasmine Starr's story, who she shared recently in the interview that we just did where she has this. And I had the same mentality as she did, which is just get me in the room with that person. Just let me see, let me be around them, let me watch, watch how they present themselves, how they carry themselves, the way they work, the way they manage their time, what they do every day. And I'll pay to be in that room. She's, that's how she is. She's like, I don't care what I got to pay. If someone is doing something that I want to do and they're doing it at a level higher than I am or better than I am, I'll pay whatever it takes to get in that room because I can emulate, I can, I can deconstruct, I can watch and I can learn and then I can apply. And the value that it just, it, I mean, it's, her story is incredible when you think about what she came from. I mean the fact that she had never even photograph before and the girl builds a multi million dollar, you know, business that then eventually, within just a couple years, people are paying her tons of money to learn from her. That's all from her hacking into that. I think it's so, so valuable. So not only, I mean the, the cheap way to do it is, okay, let me find somebody, befriend them kind of like Sal said, or can I add value to their life or service them, whatever, like that. But if, pay for it if you have to, if you, if someone you know is doing something that you want to be able to do, pay to get in that room, pay to be around that person and, and watch and learn everything that they do.

[D]

This is one of the reasons why we do the free webinars that we've been doing every other month for trainers and coaches. So although it's, you know, it's always most effective to work with someone in person who can mentor you, you can use us as mentors, you can listen to the podcast and then we do these webinars that are specifically to trainers and coaches. They're always, they're free. They're going to be free forever. It's trainerwebinar.com and every other month we teach coaches and trainers something about becoming more successful. I think the next one is March 4th and it's about making money using social media. So the topic there would be about social media, but we have them every other month you sign up trainerwebinar.com and then you just attend this free course and you can use us as a mentor. But again, I do want to reiterate, the best mentor is gonna be someone you can work with in person. Finally build and network. So I used to love painting this picture for trainers because when I figured this out for myself, man, this was when I became so invaluable to my clients that I, my drop off rate when my clients became zero. Like literally, I had clients that stayed with me for 10 plus years and never had to get a new client again because I had built so much value with them over this right here. And it's building a network. So I envision myself as a, as a fitness and health manager. So I'm a trainer. My personal expertise is strength training, cardiovascular training, flexibility training. I can work with nutrition. I can help guide you through those things. So that's my personal, you know, that's what I know personally. But I also looked at myself as this health manager, meaning I also made relationships with people that had expertise that was outside of what I knew. So I knew an acupuncturist, a functional medicine practitioner, I worked with a chiropractor, I worked with a bodywork specialist. I knew a meditation expert, I knew a therapist and counselor who worked with, with body dysmorphia and eating disorders. I worked with a doctor that did hormone testing. And so I had this network of people. So I became this maven for my client. So my client would come to me and because they. And they saw me, they saw me as their health ambassador, essentially. And they'd say, oh, my God, I'm noticing this thing now. If I didn't have the solution with the tools that I knew, which was mainly exercise and diet, I knew somebody that did. And so I would say, oh, I got somebody for you who's really good. Let me introduce you to so and so I think they can help you out. Let me introduce you to this other person who I think you can help you out. Or I think these two people, and they just would start coming to me and then they start bringing people to me so I could refer to other people. Once I became that for my clients, that was it. Game over. I became, like I said, their health ambassador for the whole family. This is so valuable for. And I think trainers are uniquely positioned to be able to do this. I don't think other modalities can do this as well as a trainer. I think a trainer does this really well.

[F]

Understand how you're killing two birds with one stone here too, because imagine you're referring people to doctors, chiropractors, acupuncturists, functional medicine doctors, and you're constantly sending leads to these people who you respect that are more knowledgeable about this area than you are. And how easy is it for you to get a bit of their time or ask for their help because you're sending them business. So now you have built in mentorship.

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[F]

I mean that half of. Like you said, your knowledge has come from building those relationships with people. Well, of course they're going to sit down and spend time with you. You just sent three clients to them last month. They just made a ton of money off of you for nothing. Like asking for them to bend your ear for an hour or bend their ear for an hour so you can ask them some questions or learn about what they're doing with your clients. Makes you a better trainer for who you're servicing. You're learning more. It also builds your network. It also then builds in a mentorship in a field in an area that's directly related and connected to you and shit, heaven forbid you continue to do that really well. And those people sort of send you leads, send you leads the other direction, the best leads.

[D]

I became known as, like the personal trainer for doctors and chiropractors and massage therapists, whatever, because of that, that process. And it was like I did. I spent zero dollars in advertising. Zero. I did nothing. And if I Ever had an opening, it was very easy. I would let them know I got an opening. Oh, I got somebody think, cool, let me send them your way. This is extremely valuable if you want to build a sustainable, stable career, because that's the other challenge sometimes with trainers is they feel like their income is sporadic and it doesn't feel stable. No, no. You will build a very stable career when you build that, when you build that network, especially in your area, that's it, done deal. You're a personal trainer for as long as you want to be until you retire. So very, very important to do that.

[C]

Got some questions here.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

The first one is what are the best certifications?

[D]

Okay, so great question. There's specific ones for.

[F]

Are we counting ours there?

[D]

Yeah, you know, I think of course ours has got to be at the top because it's specifically about how to build a business. Like what we're talking about here. And then some in detail is what we do with our course. Our course is specifically about building your business, about being a better coach. Totally. So our course and now our course now offer gives you CEUs. So if you take our course, it's worth 1.9 CEUs with national certification. So now it's, it's officially recognized as formal education.

[F]

If I could give you the triple threat, in my opinion, or the three best in, in this order too, it would be the nasm, then nasm, ces, then our course. Yeah, because the, the, the foundational NASM that you get, CPT gives you a really, really good basis and foundation for training all clients. CES corrective exercise specialist is literally what probably 80% of your clientele is going to be. And you, your ability to be able to teach. That puts you on a whole nother level of, of being an effective trainer. And then thirdly, ours, which is really heavy, heavily focused on the sales, lead generation, business communication to clients, retention, resign, stuff like that side, which obviously. Yeah. And that to me, 1, 2, 3, that sets you up. There's a lot of other great specialty stuff out there and we can refer a ton of different cool certifications, but those three right there set you up to be a very good trainer.

[E]

Starter pack. Yep.

[C]

Is a degree necessary or valuable?

[D]

You know, degrees are great. The problem with them is they take a long time and they're valued as much as a national certification, which takes a lot less time and will give you as much applicable information as you get from a degree. So unless you're going to be working in a field that requires a degree which personal training does Not I tell trainers, just get national certifications and get experience. If you're going to be a physical therapist or you're going to work in some corporate setting that requires a degree, then, then yeah, go for it. But otherwise, no, it's, it's, it's, it's more expensive, takes more time and you'll get much further because of the, the time and the application with just regular certifications.

[F]

Yeah, it's hard to, not sound biased because of our path in this situation, but it's still hard for me to recommend the degree to somebody who knows they're going to be a personal trainer or know they're going to go that direction because, because obviously if you're going to go the physical therapist route, you need it and so that's, then it's invaluable. So you, you must, you have to, it's incredible. You have to do it and then that makes a lot of sense. But for the time and money spent to go through a four year degree saying kinesiology, sports medicine in that direction, the amount of certifications and courses that you could get in those four years will end up being extremely more val. Even if you just got like three, which that three national certs in four years is very easy to do. I mean I know you do three in a year. Yeah, you do three in a year easily. And that the education that's applicable to the people you'll be helping will be far greater than that four year degree that you really only spend the last, what you say justin year and a half on things that are really applicable to clients.

[E]

I mean the first to your field.

[F]

Yeah, General Ed is like the first half of that.

[E]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. It, I mean there's courses biomechanics and you know, there's anatomy, physiology. It does help to translate in terms of understanding certification, lingo and jargon and all that kind of stuff. But to your point, is it necessary it if this is going to be your career path, this is not necessary for a personal trainer in my opinion.

[C]

Which is better, a big box gym or a private studio?

[D]

You know, if you're getting, if you're getting started, especially if you're getting started a big box gym, you're, you're dumb not to start in a big box gym. Okay, Just straight up Big box gym spends all the money on advertising, provides you with all the leads and at any given moment you can walk into your big box gym and have a bunch of people working out that don't have a trainer. Like that's the hardest thing to do when you're building your, your career as a personal trainer is getting people in front of you and then getting people to hire you. They take care of that with a big box gym. So I know there people will, oh well, they take a big chunk of your pay. Worth it. Worth it. And the, the type of people you're introduced to, the variety of people will make you better, faster because of the volume. So especially if you, when you're getting.

[F]

Started, let me tell you why so many trainers make this mistake. And I know I'm going to offend a bunch of people, but it's the truth that they don't understand business. The only reason why you would go to a private gym over a big box gym first is because you don't understand business. You see, I could go to a private gym and make all the $60 an hour that that client is paying. Therefore, oh my God, that's so much better than going and working with that big box gym where they take 40 of my $60. Which is crazy. But that's because you have no idea how much it cost to run a 30,000 square foot facility that's open 24 hours, that spends a million dollars a month on advertising to put 2,000 plus people in front of you every single day. Your $40 you gave up for those that hour is worth that a thousand times. And especially to go get the, the practice and the reps that you're going to get with that type of volume, that type of leads in front of you. So don't look at your first three years of your career as your earning phase. It's your learning phase. And you are going to learn way faster by working at a big box gym where you get way more reps, way more leads.

[D]

You go to a private studio when you know what you're doing, you know how to build your business.

[E]

You, once you have the experience, you.

[F]

Have a wait list. You have a wait list. You, you demand, you can demand what you, what you want. You tell people no because you have so many clientele, that's when you're ready for that.

[D]

Yep. Yep. But until then, like if, you know we've said this before, if you're at a big box gym and you're not the top trainer, don't even think about going to a private studio. Sink or swim, they all fail. I've had a lot of trainers before leave a big box gym because they're like, oh, you know, I can make so much more. And then they all fail because they don't know how to get the leads. They don't how to build their business. It's very difficult. They don't have the.

[F]

That's one of the hardest parts about building a business and they take care of that for you. So if you couldn't figure out how to be the best in a facility where they take care of the hardest part, you thinking you're going to go take on the hardest part and be more successful is silly. And so yeah, go become a trainer at a big box gym. Go crush, go crush, go become the top, top three, you know, top 10% of the staff. Then maybe do you go off to a private studio?

[D]

100%. Look, if you want to learn from us, we give free webinars just to coaches and trainers. March 4th is making money using social media. That's what we're going to Talk about on March 4th. Sign up trainer webinar.com but we're having them every other month. So all year long free webinars. But you have to sign up trainerwebinar.com youm can also find us on social media. Justin is mindpumpjustin on Instagram. I'm mindpump distefano and Adam is @mindpump.

[C]

Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic Maps, performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[A]

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