2516: Flat Bench Vs. Incline Bench… Which Builds a Better Chest?

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - Episode 2516 Summary

Episode Title: Flat Bench Vs. Incline Bench… Which Builds a Better Chest?
Release Date: January 22, 2025
Hosts: Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Producer: Doug Egge

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1. Introduction to the Main Debate: Flat Bench vs. Incline Bench Press

In this episode, the Mind Pump hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, and Doug Egge dive deep into one of the most debated topics in the fitness world: Flat Bench Press versus Incline Bench Press. They aim to determine which exercise is superior for chest development, muscle growth, and overall functional strength.

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2. In-Depth Comparison of Flat Bench and Incline Bench Press

Weight and Load: Sal initiates the discussion by highlighting that the flat bench press has long been considered the gold standard in strength training. “Bench press is a power lift. It's one of the big three in powerlifting competitions” (04:22), emphasizing its competitive nature and the ability to handle heavier loads compared to incline presses.

Technique and Form: Justin raises concerns about the flat bench press's complexity in maintaining proper form. “I found the flat bench press was one of the most difficult exercises to get someone to perform correctly” (05:13). Sal concurs, noting that mastering the flat bench requires significant shoulder mobility and core engagement, often taking months to perfect.

Targeted Muscle Growth: The hosts discuss muscle activation differences. Incline bench press tends to engage the upper chest and shoulders more, while flat bench emphasizes the mid-chest and triceps. Sal observes, “Incline will develop your shoulders more than flat, but flat will develop your triceps more” (09:35).

Functional Benefits: Sal argues that the incline bench press offers more functional benefits as it mimics real-world pressing motions. “The incline is going to be a bit more functional from that standpoint” (12:00), suggesting it better translates to everyday movements and athletic performance.

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3. Declaration of the Winner: Incline Bench Press

After thorough analysis, the hosts lean towards the incline bench press as the superior exercise for chest development. Sal declares, “We could say unequivocally winner would be inclined” (12:17). However, they all agree that incorporating both exercises into a training regimen yields the best results. Justin adds, “Do them both. And I would add whatever you do less of, do more of” (12:27), advocating for a balanced approach.

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4. Sauna Usage and Its Impact on All-Cause Mortality

Transitioning from bench presses, the conversation shifts to sauna use and its remarkable effects on all-cause mortality. Sal shares impressive statistics: regular sauna users (four to seven times a week) experience up to a 40% decrease in all-cause mortality (16:06). Justin and Sal discuss the physiological benefits, such as increased blood flow, heart rate elevation, and the activation of heat shock proteins, likening sauna sessions to a form of passive exercise.

Sal emphasizes the significance of sauna use alongside exercise, diet, and sleep, stating, “Nothing will compare to diet, exercise, getting good sleep or just general lifestyle or stress” (15:00). The hosts advocate for integrating sauna sessions into a minimalist longevity program, recommending even two days a week for substantial health benefits.

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5. Parenting and Video Game Control

A significant portion of the episode addresses parenting challenges related to controlling children's video game usage. Justin and Sal share personal experiences and strategies for managing screen time:

• Establishing Boundaries: Sal recounts, “I told her, I don't want you to have your phone or your iPad in your room anymore” (45:29), promoting usage in common areas to enhance family interaction and reduce isolation.

• Consistent Enforcement: Justin describes his approach of gradual restriction, ensuring that any allowance of screen time doesn't lead to overindulgence. “Environment is crucial. Legislation comes at the right time” (50:09).

• Modeling Behavior: The hosts agree that setting a good example is vital. Doug mentions, “Having a little basket where all of our tech goes” (48:02), a simple yet effective method to enforce tech-free zones.

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6. Grip Strength Challenges in Deadlifting

Caller Justin from Connecticut seeks advice on improving grip strength to enhance his deadlifting performance. The hosts offer practical solutions:

• Use of Liquid Chalk: Sal recommends liquid chalk to prevent bar slippage without creating a mess in the home gym environment.

• Grip Strengthening Exercises: Justin Andrews suggests incorporating grippers and increasing the frequency of grip workouts. Sal advises, “Get yourself a gripper. They're really cheap. You can buy them on Amazon” (88:37).

• Technique Adjustments: Switching grips during deadlifts and using a mixed grip can help manage heavier weights without compromising form.

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7. Training Clients Post-Stroke

Another caller, Dina from New Jersey, discusses training a client recovering from a severe stroke. The hosts provide tailored advice:

• Isometric Training: Sal emphasizes the importance of isometric exercises to rebuild muscle engagement and stability. “Isometrics aren't just isolated to the end range of motion” (94:34).

• Unilateral Exercises: Focusing on one side at a time helps address asymmetries caused by the stroke. Doug advises, “Let the weaker side determine the load” (96:50).

• Functional Movements: Incorporating movements that enhance core engagement and balance, such as stationary holds and modified rows, supports the client’s goal of leading extended activities like prayer sessions.

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8. Conclusion and Closing Remarks

The episode wraps up with the hosts reiterating their key points:

• Balanced Training Regimen: Incorporate both flat and incline bench presses for optimal chest development.

• Health Practices: Regular sauna use complements exercise and nutrition for longevity.

• Parental Guidance: Establish clear boundaries for children’s screen time to promote healthier family dynamics.

• Specialized Training: Utilize isometric and unilateral exercises when training clients with specific needs, such as stroke recovery.

Sal encourages listeners to engage with their online resources and communities for further support and growth. “Follow us on Instagram @mindpumpmedia” and visit their website for expertly programmed training protocols.

Notable Quotes:

• Sal DeStefano on Bench Press: “It's a power lift. It's one of the big three in powerlifting competitions” (04:22).

• Justin Andrews on Incline Bench: “I think the incline should be a prerequisite to the flat bench” (07:23).

• Sal DeStefano on Sauna Benefits: “People who use sauna four to seven days a week have up to a 40% lower all-cause mortality” (16:06).

• Parenting Strategy: Sal on Tech Restrictions: “I don't want you to have your phone or your iPad in your room anymore” (45:29).

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This episode of Mind Pump, produced by Doug Egge, offers valuable insights not only on optimizing chest workouts but also delves into holistic health practices and practical parenting strategies, reflecting the hosts' extensive experience in the fitness industry.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Adam Schafer]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Justin Andrews]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we had live callers call in and we coached them on air, but this was after the intro portion. Today's intro is 54 minutes long. In the intro we talk about current events, fitness and health, statistics and science, family life. It's a great time. By the way, if you want to be one of the callers to call in where we can help you, email us your [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Rock Recovery Center. Look, if you or a loved one or friend is in need of rehab, if you're addicted to a substance and you need help, go to rockrecoverycenter.com mindpump every other month they're giving away a free scholarship for rehab. And the statistics on the success rate with rehab is actually remarkably good. This is the only rehab center that we will advocate for. We know the owners, exceptional people. Again, it's rockrecoverycenter.com mindpump this episode is also brought to you by Luminos by Interra. This is skincare products with Peptide Science. One of the products is 3% GHKCU. It's the highest amount of GHKCU you'll see on anything on the market for skincare. Go check them out. Go to enteraskincare.com that's e n t e r-skincare.com mpm use the code mpm and get 10% off your order. We also have some workout program bundles this month. This is multiple programs put together in a bundle. Each one of these is $300 off or more. Here they are. We have the new to weightlifting bundle, the body Transformation bundle, the New Year Extreme Intensity bundle, and the body transformation bundle 2.0. You can find all of these at maps january.com all right, here comes the.

[Justin Andrews]

Show T shirt time.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's T shirt time.

[Justin Andrews]

Shit, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Adam Schafer]

T2 winners this week for Apple Podcasts, none for Facebook. The Apple podcast winners are I had to make this to continue and provangelist. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Flat bench press versus incline bench press. Which one is superior for chest development? We're going to break it down and we're going to declare a winner.

[Doug]

Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Right now. Yeah, Nice debate.

[Doug]

Yeah, right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nice debate.

[Doug]

We all have our preferences.

[Justin Andrews]

We do.

[Sal DeStefano]

We do. And I think for a long time it was bench press that was like the number one gold standard. Especially when we grew up, it was actually the exercise that determined how strong you were. Nobody asked anything else. It was, how much could you bench? But when you really break them down, I think there's pluses and minuses. But I do think you come out with kind of a clear winner.

[Justin Andrews]

I actually don't even think it's close. I think the only reason why flat bench was superior just because I think it was a staple for so long and that you can do more. Because most people can lift more weight on the bench press. And so that's the argument. It's like, oh, okay, well, if you can lift more weight on there, then that's the one that's going to grow and develop the chest.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it's also, it's also a competitive lift. Right? Bench press is a power lift.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a staple.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. There is no, like, competition where you're competing with an incline press. But bench press, that's the one that will count in a powerlifting. Com. It's one of the big three in powerlifting competitions. Now that's. That's got to be a. That's a pro. I would say for bench is that you can use more weight. And, and that's not something you want to necess. You want to disregard. Being able to handle more weight does something to the body. It does something to the central nervous system and exercises that allow you to use a. A lot of load. The fact that you can handle a lot of load while doing that exercise has its own value. And there's few pure upper body exercises. In fact, I can't think of a upper body exercise, just a pure upper body. One that doesn't involve lots of, you know, engagement from the lower body or, you know, the hips or whatever where you could lift more weight. Right. It's got to be the heaviest pure upper body exercise. Am I, am I right there?

[Doug]

I would say because it's a horizontal press, because vertical, vertical press, you're only going to be, you know, lifting so much. I mean, I'm sure people can include.

[Justin Andrews]

Like a row, though. Are you going to include the other way or you talking about pressing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no, I think, I think the highest Bench press. I mean people could bench more. They can, they can do a barbell row typically. Right. Because you have to support with your low back. It's pretty close.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I'm actually, I'm trying to think of my numbers right now. If I could row, row, I could.

[Sal DeStefano]

I could barbell row more than I could bench. But I'm not, I'm got that strange, you know, I'm much stronger than I can pull in it.

[Doug]

I mean that's why they reduce it down to power lifts. So yeah, you're just squat and bench because it's, it really is like the most you can maximize in terms of exercises.

[Justin Andrews]

I, you know, I, I think I've spoke out a lot on the incline bench and how, how much more I'm a fan of that and a lot of that for me came from training clients.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So it wasn't even like a performance or building the chest. It was a mechanical thing. I found the, the bench press, the flat bench press, believe it or not, was one of the most difficult exercises to get someone to perform correctly. And I think it's, I think, I think people overlook it because you can look at somebody doing a flat bench press and they not have good form at all. But it looks all right. Like as long as, as long as their bar path is relatively even, they could be pressing in a way that is all delts and arms and very little chest involvement and not good technique. But it look for the average eye go like oh yeah, I don't know the difference.

[Doug]

Once you lay in a laying down position, I think people, a lot of times they have a hard connecting and staying tense in a laying down because your natural tendency is to sort of relax the rest of your body, kind of focus on just where you're pressing when in fact you really have to anchor your body to the ground and really, you know, be able to drive and get those ground.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a remarkably technical exercise, the bench press. It requires more mobility. More shoulder injuries happen from a bench press than an incline press. Because of that fact, I consider that a pro and a conversation. I think learning the skill and the technique of a bench press allows you to engage your mid back, allows you to learn how to drive with your legs. In an exercise that doesn't utilize your legs, it teaches you how to activate your central nervous system, put your shoulders in a advantageous position. But also the downside of that is it takes a long time to get really good at it in comparison to an incline. Like I could have a client with no experience and within a couple weeks. So long as there's no injuries. Right. Within a couple of weeks we could do a good incline pressure bench press. There were many clients, I couldn't even get them to bench until I trained them for three or four months on shoulder mobility, scapular retraction and strength before I even had them lay flat on their back. In fact, neck mobility issues were sometimes an issue with some clients where their head couldn't even touch the bench properly because they had neck mobility issues. So the fact that an incline is easier to do properly gives it an advantage. But then also learning how to do a flat bench properly, there's advantages to, to that as well.

[Justin Andrews]

Although I think a lot of people neglect it, I think that it's not, I think the incline should be a prerequisite to the flat bench.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's normally, normally they do the other one first, the other way around.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know 100. Right. As far as aesthetics are concerned, I think bodybuilders have established this now for a while. The incline. Yeah, you, you'll never see a chest that is overdeveloped in the upper part. It just doesn't exist. It gives you a nice square looking chest. Can you develop a chest where the lower part is overdeveloped and compares to the upper part? Yeah, it happens all the time. It tends to lead to a, you know, not as aesthetic look. I think that's why bodybuilders prefer the incline over the flat. In fact, if you look at bodybuilders through the decades, the bench press got really popular early on in the 60s and 70s. And then towards the late 70s and 80s people started doing more incline and you can see the difference in their pec development.

[Doug]

I'm trying to picture that in my head like somebody that has an overdeveloped like lower part of their chest because I don't know, like, I don't know. I've seen that very often.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I mean you can look up top bodybuilders of the 60s and you'll see how their chest look versus the more square look of the upper pec. It doesn't look, remember the bodybuilder. So they're all well developed.

[Doug]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it does give you a different look. It's more of a kind of lower, you know, pec look or whatever versus the, the upper, you know, chest square.

[Justin Andrews]

What it was, I mean you, you were a big reader. Like when it came to this stuff, like with Arnold and what he, like what was he, what was he advocating for back then?

[Sal DeStefano]

He he did both, but he started with flat.

[Justin Andrews]

He did.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now remember, he came from learning from the bodybuilders of the 60s and 50s and all, all of them flat benched first. I mean the flat bench, the, the bench press revolutionized strength training for bodybuilders because up until the 40s and 50s there were no flat benches. So there you go. You can see kind of that like Larry Scott there on the left with the way his chest was or even with the picture next to him. I, for a man, I think his last name, you kind of see a little bit of a shallow upper chest. Then you go to like the 80s and you'll see more of a square look to the chest. So I mean remember they're all well developed. It's not bad. It's just not as good as some.

[Doug]

Of those didn't study dudes chests enough, I guess.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I mean we're getting, we're getting into it. Incline will develop your shoulders more than flat, but flat will develop your triceps more than the incline. And I think it's just from the load. Right. The heavy load on the flat places more of a stress.

[Justin Andrews]

What we're saying though is even common knowledge right now. I don't know, I still, if I walk in a gym most, most times, all the flat benches are taking and almost always there's an incline bench or two open.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So I still think that the, you know, predominant like general pop still gravitates towards a flat bench first over an incline bench which, which again speaking to the general pop, I think forget the chest development side because there's probably people listening that like really don't give a, you know, like, like that part that that's not the main motivation. They're just trying to be fit, be strong. Of a lot of female clients that were asking questions like that technique wise, I just, it when you sit in an incline bench, it puts you in this advantageous position with the shoulder girdle.

[Doug]

It just angles so much better.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. It sits it back and down and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which is what you're trying to do with a flat.

[Justin Andrews]

And why that's so important is because almost everybody has some bit of forward shoulder, you know, rounded shoulders and forward head. Just because we do everything in front of us. Right. It's just how bad do you have it? And so when you do a movement where you're pressing forward like that, it causes you to want to do that even more exacerbated where if you're in the incline and you're looking up like this it at least helps that gravity pulls down a little bit and back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Brings your shoulder blades down.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And then. And I think too I would also make the argument that when someone does an incline, they, whether they are intentionally doing it or not, tend to do a deeper, fuller range of motion too. Like you'll see more of a shallow bench press on a flat bench press. Left. A lot of guys are catch stopping at 90 degrees or whatever where when they're in that incline, they'll. They'll let it sink all the way down and back and probably because they're in the better position. Right. Their shoulder girdle is in that down and retracted position. And so they're going deeper. So I think you're getting a couple things there. Not only are you a better form of technique, you're also probably getting a greater range of motion for some people.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think you could also make the argument that incline is more functional because when you're pressing closer to a vertical press. Yes. Where the vertical press. One of the most functional.

[Doug]

Most functional.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean you're pressing something in a sport away from you. You're almost always leaning forward into the press. Otherwise you're going to push yourself back rather than.

[Doug]

Right. Whatever your body's going with you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And so the incline is going to be a bit more functional from that standpoint. So I think we could say unequivocally winner. Yeah. Would be inclined. So now that's. By the way, this. I love doing these because you don't have to just pick one. Right. Do them both.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're going to want to do both for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do them both. That's, that's the best way.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that's do them both. And I would add whatever you do less of, do more of. Right. Because I think that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Why ever neglect one of them? Because they're both such great movements and they should be a part of your routine. But I think probably what's most common is that what and what. At least in my experience, most people will gravitate towards which one more than the other. And so therefore whatever that one is, you know, it would behoove you to move more towards the other one and you'll get more, you'll reap more benefits.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I just looked up, yet not looked up, actually came across some great statistics on all cars mortality. This is decent data. And how sauna use affects all cause mortality.

[Justin Andrews]

So funny you're bringing this up right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, this was on my notes to talk about this because I had just seen we haven't had him on the show. We, we, I think we were booked with him in Texas at one point and then rescheduled.

[Doug]

Peter.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, I, I saw him do an interview and I forget who he was talking to and he was saying that, I think the interviewer asked, like, what are the things that you've changed your mind on the most? And he, that was his argument was that he has really changed his position on how valuable, you know, hot hot is doing the sauna for all cause mortality for that, for that reason. Because he, it's not like, because he makes the point of how a lot of these things that all of us argue and debate over, especially difference. Yeah. Especially in the science community. Right. We're, we're splitting hairs of like, what is, you know, 5% better or this night he goes, but from what the research says, like, it's a, it's a huge difference.

[Doug]

You heard it's like an exercise mimicker. You've heard like, I mean, for lymphatic system, everything else, like, you know, in terms of like sweating it out and getting these toxins out and what's the biggest benefit? And I know heat shock proteins and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Other, I mean, you can break it all down. I mean, you know, vaso, it dilates the blood vessels, increases blood flow, raises your heart rate. So there's the exercise simulation aspect of it. You could talk about heat shock proteins to get real granular and get into the weeds, but the data on it is crazy. Yeah, it's, it's one of those things because you have exercise, diet, sleep at the top. Very few things even come close or, or would even be in the same universe as exercise, diet and sleep in terms of affecting all cause mortality. Like there's a lot of things you can do that the data will show will improve your health. And remember, for people who aren't familiar, all cause mortality means dying from any cause. Okay? There's nothing will compare to diet, exercise, getting good sleep or just, you know, general lifestyle or stress. Right. Nothing comes close. And everything else is just like you're, you're moving a few percentages here and there. And if you haven't, if you're not, if your diet could get better, your, or your exercise routine could get better or more consistent. You're better off focusing your energy there. And that's always the argument. It's like, okay, cool, I'm glad you have this new exotic berry or whatever that you can eat or this new thing that you're doing. But you know, why don't you Just eat a little bit healthier. Like that'll have way more of a return. Well, sauna use, I'm going to read you guys some of the, some of the stats on this. It's massive. The effects of sauna use are quite incredible. So Dr. Rhonda Patrick, she's one of my favorite experts to talk about this. But check this out all cause this is for people who use asana quite regularly four to seven times a week. So we're not talking about a By the way, 15% decrease in all cause mortality would be huge. That would be 20% massive. There's very few things you could do besides exercise, diet and you know, lifestyle. You know, we'll put stress in that category. That would have an effect of like 20% or you know, 15%, 40% lower in people who use a sauna four to seven days a week.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

40%. Nothing comes close to that. People who use asana two to three days a week, 20% lower. So even just two days a week, you'll dramatic. So that's how effective it is, is that you use it two days a week, 20%, four days a week, five days a week, 40% lower. It's like one thing you can do that has a on all cause.

[Justin Andrews]

So do you think if you were, if you were building the ultimate minimalist longevity type of program that this is sauna's in there. Right. So it's like a, a two day a week pro routine I would imagine. Right. Because minimalist again. Right. Not what the max benefits. Like what is the least I can do to like really reap the most benefits? Probably a two day full body routine with what, two to three days of the sauna use?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Walking every day. Yeah, two, two days a week of strength training, a couple days a week or a few days a week of sauna use, eating a whole food diet and you know, getting you know, regular good consistent sleep. Like you've covered 90 plus percent of the basis which just those right there.

[Doug]

I was reminded, remember when we went to paleo effects, they had like a cheap version that you could get for your house. But it was like I remember Doug and then you fitting in one. It was like a pod.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah, your head sticks out.

[Doug]

Yeah, like Velcro.

[Justin Andrews]

I think Doug owns one of those.

[Adam Schafer]

I do own one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you own one of those.

[Sal DeStefano]

How effective is it?

[Adam Schafer]

I mean it works great. 30 minutes in it and I'm sweating pretty.

[Justin Andrews]

We have one too. It's not at our house anymore. It's I think someone's storage in the family, Katrina's family has one that, I mean it's all, it's like the, that was like the pop up, like cheaper version. They used to make a, like a hard plastic eggshell one like that where your head stuck out. Yeah. So we used to use that all the time. I mean it works great for, you know, if that's, there are cheap options.

[Doug]

Was the point of that?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Doug]

It is an excuse.

[Justin Andrews]

I know that's.

[Doug]

Oh yeah, just do sonic.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. That's because I know that's the pushback, right people? Oh, yeah, sure. Anybody can just afford a $7,000 sauna, no big deal. But there's ways around to get the benefits to your, what you're talking about.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're quite inexpensive.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I just, you know the reason it was so funny you brought it up because it was in my notes. I had seen that it was a, and I had known that already. It was just a great reminder. And I messaged Katrina because we're obviously we're doing a bunch of stuff construction with the house and I was just like, oh, I need a, a 220 outlet so I could run. Yeah. Because I want to put a sauna outside so I could do that. Because there, when we had it here I was, I was on a kick for a while doing it and that with, and I don't know what the, what is the, the combining it with cold contrast. How do you know how much better it gets? Or is it incremental with, with the cold contrast?

[Sal DeStefano]

I think you get the benefits of both. I, the reason why I like to combine them personally is if I go from sauna to cold, it's more tolerable. You get the same effects. But jumping into a cold dip, like without being hot first, you know, like you wake up in the morning, jump in. It is hard, man. It's for sure.

[Doug]

Back to our old theory of like when you're in a constantly controlled environment, temperature wise, and then, you know, to stress the body in terms of going from this end of the spectrum to the other and being able to acclimate, you know, to either pretty effectively. I feel like that's got to be good for resilience.

[Justin Andrews]

I, I, to me, nothing has ever made a bigger difference when, when, when I'm cold punching consistently, which I am not right now, but when I am, I can, I can stretch a long period of time of not getting sick. Otherwise the inevitable happens. I'll get sick once every few or few months or if I'm in a room with you guys, it's like. But when I'm cold punching like that, that it's. It's a drastic difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you know what you're saying, Justin, Your ability to acclimate to temperature, like that's a real thing. Like, I remember when I lived in Palm Desert. So it's like a suburb of Palm Springs.

[Doug]

It gets so hot.

[Sal DeStefano]

It gets so hot, right? Like 120 degrees in the summer.

[Doug]

My shoes melted there when I went down there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's no joke. I lived there for a little while. I had a gym down there. And this. It was so hot. I'd never experienced anything. Like, it was like, you go outside, it would be 90 degrees at 6am or you go outside and it felt like someone had a blow dryer or blow you in the face. So that's, that's what the wind felt like.

[Doug]

Your pool is basically like a hot tub.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I, and I. So after a while of living there, I came up here to visit my family in San Jose. And I remember it was like a heat wave here. So it was like 89, 92. And I was fine. I went outside, I was like, and everybody's dying. Am I used to.

[Doug]

That was like when I came back from Chicago.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

And I remember sitting and watching one of our old like high school football games. And everybody's got parkas on. They're like this. And I'm like, t shirt. I'm like, this is, this is temperate.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, this is fine. I had a client who used to live in Minnesota, and whenever it was like 50 degrees, she'd show up in shorts and a T shirt. I'm like, aren't you cold? She's like, I grew up on a farm.

[Justin Andrews]

Did we just have a guest that came in and visited the other day that was from. So where were they from? Was it Alaska or. They were from somewhere where it was cold. Yeah, I can't remember what was from. They were like. It was. We were all freezing there in like a T shirt, shorts.

[Sal DeStefano]

I remember in my dad, you know, he works, he worked a blue collar. But when he first came to this country, one of the first jobs he had was as a plaster. Did plaster. He'd be out in the hot sun doing plaster. And he told me like, once he got used to it, it wasn't a big deal. But when he first started doing it, he's like, man, he goes. He would get dizzy. He'd have to like drink water. My mom would throw salt in the water because After a while, he got used to it and he would never feel hot again.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, Sal, isn't that the theory behind why, like, the cause? What I'm talking about is like, I feel like it's immune boosting. Right. But it also has a lot to do with, like, why we get catch cold colds a lot of times in the wintertime is because we're. Our bodies are already trying to acclimate to temperatures, and so it's in a weaker state. And then it's more likely to get vitamin D exposure. Yeah, you're just. You're just weaker. Right. Your. Your body's allocating resources to a system that is underdeveloped and weak. And then therefore, all it takes is a little bit of a virus in the air and you get attacked versus that system is so strong because you change it. It doesn't even get stressed at all. So then it can allocate those resources.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a vibe. That's a very.

[Justin Andrews]

That's very good. What I always thought was happening is that that's what makes the most sense to me, is that I've trained that system to be so resilient that when we hit wintertime and everybody else is feeling it so much, I'm resilient. So that when I am in an environment, when you guys are like, my. All my resources go to defense versus having to also.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a really good theory because when you look up, why do illnesses peak in the winter? What they'll say is, we're. We're closer to each other indoors, less vitamin D from sun exposure. I don't think that answers it completely. I think you might be right, Adam. I think it might be what I just said. Plus, you know, there's that period of acclimation where your body's a little bit more stressed from the cold.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I would agree with you.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, it makes. At least. It makes sense to me when you think about how our body utilizes all the other systems. And if you have a. I mean, they're all. They all work synergistically. Right. And so if you have a really weak system, you know, whichever, whatever system it is of your body. Right. There's a chance that your body then has to provide more resources to overcompensate.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it is a fact that if you're stressed levels high, you are going to. You are more susceptible to illness. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And that what that is is the resources going over there. Right. So it's. I don't know. That's what always made sense. To me on what was going on, it's no doubt I've done it enough times where I've been consistent, inconsistent, consistent to be able to see that it's a huge difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, speaking of stats, I found some very interesting stats on. So we work with Rock Recovery Center. They provide rehab services for people who are struggling with addiction. And I wanted to look up statistics on rehab because they exist. Like, how effective is rehab for helping people with addiction? And I have real statistics.

[Justin Andrews]

Isn't it very extreme?

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, it's better than I thought because I thought. I don't know why I thought this. For some reason that's like the chances are so small no matter what you do that you'll get out of whatever you're doing. It's actually not. Not bad at all. So 80. So. So 89. I have a bunch of stats here. 89% of individuals who complete alcohol rehab are still sober one month after. 76% who successfully complete rehab remain sober three months. 69% are still sober six months. A little more than 70%. So right around the same nine months, approximately 85 to. 85 to 95% of people who successfully complete drug rehab report that they're still abstinent from drugs nine months later. 80% of people report having improved quality of life. I mean, the stats are pretty damn good, especially when you consider the stats of people that don't go to rehab.

[Justin Andrews]

I actually thought that it was a lot worse than that also. So did I. I thought it was like a 10%. No, I thought it was very.

[Doug]

Do they have like the different treatments in like, in terms of their weight, of which one was more successful versus the other?

[Sal DeStefano]

No. That's a good question. You know, I know Rock Recovery.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, this is why we're w. We're working with them and they become friends is because obviously they were big mind pump listeners for a long time.

[Doug]

I think the way they do it is.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, they, they've really. They've really take. Taken the similar approach the way we do with fitness. Right. Not only in court, in including fitness, because I know there's a lot of places that might include fitness, but they've also taken our approach of the like, least amount possible to listen to the most change and know how important that is. Because when you have addicts, one of the most common things that you see with an addiction is they cut one addiction down and then they just transferred it somewhere else, pick it up somewhere else. And so many times the exercise works as like a bridge to get them off the drug or alcohol, but then they just. They just move to being obsessed and addicted with that. And so. And even though, yes, you can make the argument that that's probably a better addiction than cocaine, nonetheless, it's still an addiction where they'd far better be off. They'd be far better off if they applied it appropriately so they get all the benefits of exercise. But then they also don't just transfer that those same behavior.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're just good people over there. They're just really, really good people who. Who successfully came out of their own or now sober themselves. Successfully working with people, and they're really good. So, I mean, if you're listening to this or you have a family member or friend that's struggling, the odds that they're going to be able to do this on their own are almost zero. When you look at the data, working with a really good rehab center, pretty good statistics. Not bad at all. I thought they were gonna be a lot worse when I looked them up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

From what I thought, better than what I thought, way better. And they're doing a scholarship, right? It's like every other month they give one away.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah. So anytime you guys hear us bring them up on the show, if you have a family friend, definitely sign and no matter what. So even if your family friend or yourself does not win the actual scholarship, they're reaching and they're doing, like, a consult with everybody. So people that are at least be.

[Sal DeStefano]

Able to point you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, exactly. And they're. And that's Their goal is to help everybody they've got. They've even got a free community. So they have a Facebook group, too. So, like, those. They're inviting those people into there so they can at least start building a support group regardless if they can get. If they win the scholarship or not. They're building a really strong community of people that are all helping us support each other. So definitely, you know, register to try and win because the bare minimum, they at least will reach out.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you just reminded me of something. So, you know, Facebook does, you know, memories will pull up a little picture. Doug, I sent you. I texted you a picture if you could pull it up. This is. So you guys know how every year after Thanksgiving, I work out with my cousins and my brother?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I was trying to figure out how long this tradition has been going on. It's actually been going on a lot longer than I thought. So this picture right here, check this out. This is 2015. Look at the shirt I'm wearing.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Scroll Up a little bit. Next thing, look at the shirt. It's one of the first T shirts, if not the first T shirt.

[Doug]

So do you guys still have that shirt? I was trying to look for it. No, I don't think I have it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So one of the first shirts that we. Zero fucks zero.

[Justin Andrews]

I have. I've. I've kept all where they're at, though. I have to. I know. I've. I've kept all of them. One day I want to make a big quilt out of them. Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I know I wore that walking around public. You know, what am I doing? But anyway, so this is 2015, by the way. The house, supportive of my family, they're all wearing Mind pump shirts for that. For that. That's 2015, too. This is like right before or right after we must have launched or whatever.

[Doug]

We had the Italian Bump.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, it's so cool that you had that kind of support from your family that early on, because we weren't even making waves at this point. We weren't doing enough, and so we.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thought we were awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, you got.

[Doug]

You certainly.

[Justin Andrews]

You've got five family members right there, all wearing Mind pump shirts. And I don't think I had five family members listening to the show until maybe even now.

[Doug]

You know, I got like four.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this picture is 2015. This was the seventh year right here that we had done it. So I've been doing. We've been doing this, this. This tradition for 17 years.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

17 years every year.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you guys. Have you guys done a good job and taking a picture every time? Do you know, not all of them, because that would be a really cool thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think this is the first picture we took. I think the rest of them were just. We did it. And then I then. Then we started kind of documenting.

[Justin Andrews]

I always hate when I do when I go back. I know, man. It's like what we talked about with the Airbnbs. I wish we would have taken photos. All of us through all those. It's like, well, you know, what speed of that do you guys think? I had this thought the other day because we've moved so much into the digital era with the. And Instagram is now kind of taking over, like the modern photo album. Like, how often do you hear anybody even? Or when was the last time you went to a house? Someone brought a photo album out?

[Sal DeStefano]

Nobody.

[Justin Andrews]

So I think we're going to go back to that. I believe we're going to move back.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's something about Jessica makes them all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we have. We. I did for Katrina a lot early on.

[Doug]

Pictures, you send them in and they'll.

[Sal DeStefano]

Print and they'll make them in.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. I use Shutterfly, like, as they make, like, books. And so when we first started dating, I was making Katrina a book every year for like the first few years. And so. And every once in a while we will pull those out and it's like. And there's just something about flipping through the pages. And I know I have all those photos in my iPhone, but they're not.

[Sal DeStefano]

Organized the same way.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's just they're cool for coffee tables, you know, And I don't even.

[Justin Andrews]

Know if that's what it is. There's something. There's a feeling I get that is different when I flip through the book versus even if it was organized because I can go to Shutterfly online and where I built that book, I can go through it there too. But there is something different about turning the pages and holding it in your lap like that. I don't know. It creates conversation around. Oh, I remember this. And I don't know. Versus us on a phone or on a TV or just different. And I believe that we're going to move. I think it's gonna be popular again. So that's my business idea for somebody right now is that direction.

[Sal DeStefano]

But don't they already do that?

[Justin Andrews]

They do, but it's not popular. It's not like something that like. So your business idea is like, so what I would. So what would be smart?

[Doug]

Like what sort of glamorous business?

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, what would be. What would be smart is if somebody like went after people. So imagine you have all these Instagram and imagine someone DMs. You sound says, hey, I see you've been. You've had Instagram going for like two. I'd like to put together a album for you. Would you allow me to do that or something like that? Or, you know, for 50 bucks I'll create a nice album and then. And then do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then AI is going to do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Would you not buy it? Well, I'm sure you can already use AI tools. I think you can with even like Shutterfly. I think you can speak of which.

[Sal DeStefano]

Who was it that sent that. That clip where someone said, hey, you could ask like meta to to come up with the best, most viral potential post.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Who was it?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, I think the YouTube.

[Sal DeStefano]

One of our guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think the YouTube. I had shared that before.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

Somebody shared reshared you can literally ask meta their AI. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, what would be the most viral content. Viral content for my audience.

[Justin Andrews]

So, you know, okay, you understand why this is so good. Good for us and why this is so important is because this, the, the platforms are already moving, which you guys have probably noticed this already with your feeds. Like you're, you're getting way less views, but the views you are getting are people that really want to see exactly that type of content that you're posting at that moment.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're getting good at that.

[Justin Andrews]

They're getting very good at that. So even though there's people that are frustrated because they, they think their views are way down or their listens are way down, the what the algorithms are getting better and better at is feeding people content that is exactly what they want and only what they want. Which means if you're really good at providing really good value for whatever your thing is that you're the. That's gonna stick. Because that person was already like, you know, let's say you like. I'm a lot of. My feed is all car stuff. I'm all into that. And I'm watching certain car things right now because I'm interested in a new exhaust or whatever. So that's like everything I'm getting fed. And the person who did the best video, the highlighting the exhaust or thing I'm interested in is going to get my attention and I'm not going to get distracted by anything else because that's all I'm doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

What they're doing is they're catering to content creators because they know that they're the ones that make their platforms popular. The better content creators you have, the better your platforms. Isn't TikTok about to become illegal?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I heard one of you guys say that. Is that true?

[Doug]

Yeah, they're saying it.

[Adam Schafer]

They're saying it's true on the 19th, by the way, which I think the Inauguration's on the 20th.

[Sal DeStefano]

So the timing.

[Adam Schafer]

Timing's interesting.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

We'll see.

[Justin Andrews]

What's. What does a conspiracy theorist say about that?

[Sal DeStefano]

I know. Is there a conspiracy?

[Adam Schafer]

There probably is.

[Doug]

I'm sure there is. But yeah. So Trump, I don't think he was. Had a problem with Tick tock. So this was all past, you know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, this is all because.

[Justin Andrews]

Wait, wait, I thought he did. I thought I've heard him say stuff about it.

[Doug]

He's not back because it helped him in the election. He was like claiming.

[Sal DeStefano]

So is it because he's like, oh, I like to. It's because it's a China owned platform and they're capturing.

[Doug]

Yeah it's because a lot of the spyware and everything they found that they actually do have been taking everybody's well and they prove their phones.

[Justin Andrews]

They also prove too that like we're getting fed different content over in the US than like what they are in China.

[Sal DeStefano]

Kids especially.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you seen that?

[Justin Andrews]

So I think that was it wasn't. That was, that's what really caused everybody to go like oh this is okay.

[Doug]

Something's something algorithm in China. There was here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, maybe you know, you know what sucks about. Well, they showed that what sucks about all this is there's people who have built businesses just on TikTok who are about to lose their entire.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean again another plus for us. Even though we have a TikTok, we don't put no energy into it. So I mean that what that means for us is a majority of us us based people will then go over to reels and be more on YouTube shorts and so that which is where we're at. So the TikTok thing has never. I know there are some people that have had massive success. I think you have to have a product or a thing that really appeals to that. 13 to 23.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are they still the youngest demographic?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Maybe Snapchat's up there too. Maybe Dylan or someone could look up what the, what's the average.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's the average age of a tick tock?

[Doug]

We figured out the most addictive process ever. Like they literally nailed it.

[Sal DeStefano]

They did.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I mean it's crack for kids. That's what it is.

[Doug]

Like crack cocaine.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I, I, my, I told you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

My daughter has a grandma around 24 years old.

[Justin Andrews]

Is the average.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. What's the average for Instagram? Let's just see what.

[Justin Andrews]

Well that's older for sure. What's Snapchat? Snapchat might be one that's down there with them. There's probably a platform.

[Doug]

I think Snapchat will take over for sure here.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Why do they do already popular. Yeah. With the youth. That's like every teenager. That's what they live on.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that what you're tracking?

[Adam Schafer]

15 to 25 year old.

[Justin Andrews]

So that's younger on Snapchat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

So Snap will probably take over a lot of that. Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know speaking of conspiracy theories and stuff, I learned about the coolest one yesterday.

[Doug]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I can't. So you don't know who Ron Watching.

[Doug]

A lot of dumb Ones.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm like, Ron White, the comedian Wyatt.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, why Ron Wyatt? I'll pull up a little info on him. Because I saw this clip or this, like, on. On him, and I looked him up and, you know, there's. There's a lot of controversy, right? Is he real? Is he not? Whatever. He. He was a. They called him a pseudo archaeologist, but essentially he would go out and study biblical archaeology, archaeological places, and he made a hundred biblical archaeological discoveries. His most notable claim. You ready for this? So he said he found dark of the Covenant, the Ark of the Covenant, which was under ground underneath where Jesus died. Okay. So under where Jesus was crucified was the Ark of the Covenant.

[Doug]

Then they had, like a DNA evidence of his blood.

[Sal DeStefano]

He saw this red, dry.

[Doug]

20. Was it 24 chromosomes?

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. He took the blood, studied in a lab. It only had 24 chromosomes. Yeah, this is. Only had half.

[Justin Andrews]

This is right up there with my carbon dating.

[Sal DeStefano]

I thought it was so cool.

[Doug]

Yeah, I know. It's. It's fantastical.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I was looking it up.

[Doug]

It's been verified.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude. There's some debates as to back and forth whether or not it was real.

[Doug]

Yeah, he had this. It was a YouTube series, and he had it out for. I don't know, this been out for years. Really? Yeah, I found him, like, I don't know, a year ago.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I could have sworn. I just. I think Justin has brought this exact story up, bro, on the podcast.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you?

[Justin Andrews]

A long time ago.

[Doug]

Yeah, a long time ago.

[Justin Andrews]

During atheism.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what I heard about it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah, you just dismissed it. You dismissed it five years ago.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now you're on board.

[Justin Andrews]

Now you're all.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think he also found the. Where the ark. Noah's ark. Ended up landing.

[Justin Andrews]

Is he the same guy? Because I've seen that. I've seen the documentary on the guy who did that, showed all.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that him right there? Discovered Noah's Ark. Is that him?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's him.

[Doug]

That's my retirement plan. I just want to go around the world, find cool stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you really? So what are some of the crappy conspiracy you said you found? You've been finding some weird ones?

[Doug]

Oh, you know, most of the ones that I just immediately dismiss are the ones where it's like, people that have died, and then they spot them later as, like, an old person. Like Elvis or like. Yeah, like, one of them was, like, Hitler. Like, on the boat with Hillary Clinton.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw that one.

[Doug]

I was like, this is so great.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's A picture of Hillary Clinton. There's a person actually look like Hitler.

[Doug]

Okay, hold on. They have like a picture of like, Hitler and then like, you know, you could kind of see the resemblance.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I love those ones.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

You gotta. Sometimes just. We have our own thread. We don't always, but sometimes we'll send each other stuff like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I know.

[Doug]

I love it.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. It's like Doug and I. Doug and I have our own car. When I talk. Movie stuff. Car stuff. Yeah, I'm tucked.

[Doug]

Texting.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm texting Doug. You guys don't even care about, dude.

[Doug]

So I bought my kids. We're doing this sort of social experiment with them because it's been a struggle to get them to. We give them a lot of time for video games. And if they do all their homework and this and that and the other.

[Sal DeStefano]

How much time do they get, by the way?

[Doug]

So they get in. It varies based on their behavior. So it's. It's either like 20 minutes or sometimes it's an hour if they really like, you know, or are getting things done. But so that time comes up and then it's like, I have it on timer. It's this huge fight. And every time just rip them out. And so I'm like, okay, I. I give them just the 20 minutes now, and then they can earn the rest. And so I do that by flipping a coin. And so I bought this coin off of this guy that makes them on Etsy. And, you know, it has the name. He engraves the name. So it's like Everett, you know, Then, you know, you earn like. It's like, you know, another game or it's like, game over. And, like, you go to bed. And so we flip it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you just flip it.

[Doug]

But I've been winning every time. I'm like, yes. Then I'm like, wait a minute.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's rigged. I really just waited. It's weighted on one side.

[Doug]

I haven't told. You know, obviously they haven't picked up on it yet, but I'm.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, man.

[Doug]

Dad's killing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did they check it's both sides of the same?

[Doug]

Yes. And they don't fight me on it because I'm just like, it's up, you know, up for chance.

[Justin Andrews]

So are you. I mean, obviously you have older. Well, I mean, I guess you have your olders too. Older kids too. I don't know if you. If they are video gaming like Justin's are not. Do you. Does it change, like, weekends versus weekdays and like. And Then how do they earn week. I feel like 20 minutes to an hour is not a lot of video game time because I played a lot more than that, especially on the weekends. I mean, we would muck out for two days straight. So.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's.

[Doug]

It's sparse during the week. And then. Yeah. During the week ends, it's. It. If we're not really paying attention, it can get like, crazy. Like three hours or something.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not sure how I'm gonna. I've talked about how I'm gonna handle the phone thing. I already feel confident on the direction I'm gonna go that way. I don't know what I'll do with video games.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's. You want to know what I think now?

[Doug]

So they're so different now too, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's what. Because you like video games.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly. That's why.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's why I think would be good if you're playing with him.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're engaging together.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Different if he's by himself. That's where I think you might need to be a little bit more.

[Doug]

I'll try that. But it's. It's. You know, it. We have. I got to do.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. Right.

[Doug]

I gotta work on the house. I got errands to run, you know, and so.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you know, you have all the.

[Doug]

Best intentions of, like. I mean, I started out like that, and then it just.

[Justin Andrews]

My son's already, like, not into it. Remember I told you guys I got the old Nintendo?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so he went through a little young. He went through a little too. Yeah. But his. His best friend, who's only a year older than him, has been, I mean, addicted to. Let me ask you this game for.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know what the answer is to this, but let me ask you this.

[Doug]

Don't do iPad games.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is your best friend's kid generally on electronics?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Unfettered actors.

[Sal DeStefano]

So he's been trained.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's why.

[Justin Andrews]

But I mean, that's my point. Is that like it. And that's why I'm wondering how I'll handle it is because I believe, or I want to believe, that if we did such a good job of laying a foundation early that I won't have to really pull and restrict. What I think happens to a lot of parents is early. And maybe, Justin, you could attest to this. Or not. You know, maybe there was a time when you guys weren't really thinking about the video games and you kind of gave them more access than maybe or have you. Since day one.

[Doug]

Fight. Since day one.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, since day one. You've restricted.

[Doug]

Yeah. And it's. I'd like to say that, like, you know, like, I mean it. You do your best in terms of, like, laying the groundwork and like, you know, having the strict guidelines and rules. But just like anything else, it's like it, it wants to get old enough where they want to push back on you. Like, that's where it really starts to become a thing. Like, you know, you'll find that out a bit later where he's like, no, I'm doing it this way. No, they, they want to push back and find, you know, boundaries and where, where they can go and they want to test those boundaries. And so it. Just. Because it's a diff. It's a weaving the goalpost, the hardest.

[Justin Andrews]

Part for you guys. And I know that you have. You can definitely speak to this because I know your son's.

[Doug]

That's not really an algae.

[Justin Andrews]

My. My brother Larry, you guys know Larry, who comes in here and does. Does our tech stuff, right. He, his son Nathaniel is getting ready to go to college and he's getting into like, all the greatest. I mean, he averaged like a 4, 2. Killed it. I mean, he's just a brilliant kid.

[Doug]

Awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

But he was like. I mean, he was always attached to the games. And so it's like. And he's a good kid.

[Doug]

Didn't do drugs, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Didn't drink. You know, just well behaved all the things. But that was this thing he was into. And so. And he played sports too. So I think his dad was like. I think what I'm sure Larry was okay with was like, he also was playing basketball and baseball, so it wasn't like he only played video games. He also did this other thing. But he. Let me tell you, he played a lot of video games. And he'd be. We've been a lot of family events and he'd be down on his phone. And so that. But then the kids getting into, you know, Stanford, Oregon, you're doing the good.

[Doug]

Job right now by laying the groundwork. I have to, like, rest in that because, like, they're their own individual. At the end of the day, like, some kids are going to be, like, way more hooked on it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think, you know, you have to be careful because we tend to measure success on a few things. Like, do they get good grades? Are they making a lot of money? Then it wasn't a bad thing. But those aren't the only things.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

That are good in the world. And if I could go back in time, I would have been way more restrictive of the video games that my 19 year old played when he was a kid, for sure. And he got good grades. Real smart kid.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what I mean.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, I mean, I don't think it was because he played video games. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But then, Sal, what do you. Okay, because the reason why. That's, that's an easy thing. It's an easy thing for kids to. They're being taught in school. Get good grades.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Be well behaved. Right. Don't do drugs. These are like the things that we're teaching.

[Sal DeStefano]

We tend to value that. Like, if I say to you, hey, is that that person? Is that person successful? You immediately think what. How much money they're making.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you're not thinking, are they a good person? Are they happy? Are they anxious? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So I think, I guess the question I'm asking then. So you go back to your son, you redo all this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. Way, way more restricted.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, you're way more restricted. But then how do you sell it to him?

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, you start in the beginning.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what you're saying. But I mean that Justin makes me fearful of that because he's saying that he was that way all the way from the beginning.

[Sal DeStefano]

Still going to get pushback.

[Justin Andrews]

Because I, I think that so far everything has been relatively easy for me to pull back on. And we allow this kind of push and pull with him with all types of things. Remember I was the guy who said he'll never see tv. Obviously that's not true. But I. And I will allow him to be on his iPad or I'll allow him to watch a little tv. But then when I see that I'm allowing too much of it or I see any sort of change in behavior, Katrina and I pull right back. And then we'll pull way back and then we'll drip it back to him and make sure that there's so. And it's not been like, it's not. Obviously he's only five. Okay. So I don't have a, A teenager who can articulate their argument and stuff like that. So I'm hoping that I just, I'm consistent and so that when it gets to the high school years that he's been hearing it consistently already. So it's not a hard thing.

[Doug]

That's your best, regardless.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just wait till it's being consistent because.

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder what you would say. What would you say if you had to redo it? Like, you got it, you're not measuring it by money. You're not measuring it by school grades anymore. You wanted to be a good person. That's vague as fuck. Hey, son, you were a great person. I mean, how are you going to just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Without getting personal. There's a lot of things I would look at, but I would, I would have definitely gone back and restrict. Look, I'll tell you what, with my daughter, I'll tell them about my 15 year old. She's very restricted on social media. And recently, recently I've stuck to this. I told her, you know what? I don't want you to have your phone or your iPad in your room anymore. If you want to use it, you have to be in a common area. And it was definitely a fight for a week. And you know what's. Now I'm seeing it. Positive, positive benefit. She's more with the family more. She's happier.

[Justin Andrews]

See, that's what I was looking for.

[Sal DeStefano]

You.

[Justin Andrews]

That's great feedback because there's, there's an example to. Maybe you get that. I know that when. With. If and when that time comes, that'll. That'll be an easy thing to implement, right? Is like when he gets to use iPad. Like, it's just never. You don't ever use it in your room. We don't use any of our devices in our room. It's that simple. We, we have a common area. We use.

[Doug]

It's a big hack. We've done that.

[Justin Andrews]

So that, that's, that's a great. That's what I'm looking for from YouTube when I talk to this stuff like that is that obviously I'm, I'm trying to implement everything and I still have time, but it's like, what are these little things that if you could go back and do it again that you think would have made a big difference?

[Doug]

Well, in, you know, we're fearful of VR and all that kind of stuff. I actually prefer it because, oh my God, they're so active and they're engaging and they're talking and, and then they're done. You know, they'll take it off and then they're done for the day. It was like, okay, that's enough. Like the stimulus is like overload, you know, so it's almost like I don't really get as much fight on that as I do, you know, the handheld stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Have you seen videos of like little kids who use iPads or phones all the time and they're falling asleep, it's not even in front of them and they're Using the hand signal. And they're moving their finger like they're on it or they'll pull it away from the one year old and one year old throw a tantrum. Oh man, it's crazy. There's. Have you guys seen that video of the dad who. Who his son was playing? I don't know what happened, but he puts his gaming console and video games out in the lawn and runs over it with a lover. Have you seen that one?

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, it's been a. Kids, teenagers. We had these. I'm sitting on the couch last night watching the warriors game. Doorbell rings like a. You know, this is like 6:00 or 7:00 at night, which is random time. And Katrina pulls up the. The. The, you know, whatever the camera. And it's like these two looks like high school girls. And so her and Max go to the door and go answer the door and these two girls are selling homemade cookies. And Katrina's like, how come you guys are doing this? And they're like, well, we just, we were at home and we wanted to be more productive with our time and thought, you know, we go to our neighbors and offer. Yeah. And could. So of course Katrina bought and supported. You know, it's like that. She's like, I love that. I love that you girls are thinking like that at 17 that you don't want to just sit around and watch TV or stick to your iPad or what that. And yes, I'll definitely buy from you.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's great.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So I thought that was pretty cool to see that. It does seem sometimes, you know, like the. Even the generation coming up are becoming more and more aware of this. Like you got to understand like you guys. Kids probably had it the hardest, I really believe when it comes to like understanding the relationship with tech.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because they. We were. It was so new to us.

[Doug]

And you know, it's their lifeline too for a while as they were like stuck that.

[Justin Andrews]

That also.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that covet really messed that up, man.

[Justin Andrews]

That like we have a really good handle on it because we were before and we were like kind of. So we had to see the whole, the whole thing. But man, if you were born into the iPhone.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

As being normal right away as a kid and seeing both your parents on it like crazy. And then you get it right away at two and it's like. And then now you're a parent, you know, with a 12 year old trying to figure out how you're gonna rein it back in. Gee, that, that to me seems Way harder than what I'm doing. What I'm doing is I'm building.

[Doug]

Yeah. It's interesting because I have the hardest time right now with my youngest, but, like, Ethan's actually moved over to more social stuff, and so he's actually going out, hanging out with people. But then now I'm having to regulate. Like, at middle of the night, he's, like, on these group chats, and they're all just like, like. And I can hear him in the house, and I'm like, dude, cut it out. You know, go to bed. And I. I. Every night, though, I take his phone. Like, he doesn't have his phone in his room.

[Justin Andrews]

I saw you said that, too. I thought, that's a great. That's a great idea, too. Like, having, like, a little basket where all of our tech goes, which, by the way, I think would be just great discipline for myself.

[Doug]

I. I would love that.

[Justin Andrews]

I know exactly like, I. Some of.

[Doug]

I mean, he's actually appreciating it now.

[Justin Andrews]

He.

[Doug]

He fought me hard on that in the beginning.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I bet.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I bet. Again. Trying to pull it back. Right. Versus how, if I have the opportunity, it's like, hey, as soon as you get it, here's the. Here's the thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, if there's one thing I could tell a parent of a teenager is when you do something and you make a change, anticipate that there's going to be a long period where they're going to act like they don't like you.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you got to deal with it. Like. Like my daughter. There was one thing that we did where we kind of fought over, and she was mad at me for a month. You know, it's like to have your kid, such a teenage girl, act like they're pissed off, hold a grudge for, like, for a month. You know what I mean? And I mean, as a dad, you know, remember, I have dual custody, so it's like, I have her every other. I only get it every other. The week. So it's also.

[Doug]

That's rough, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's messing with me. Right?

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's so funny about that?

[Sal DeStefano]

But I, like, I gripped my teeth.

[Justin Andrews]

I told you guys this story.

[Sal DeStefano]

Jessica helped me a lot. She's like, you know, that's normal. Right? You know, she probably would be mad at you anyway. And she did. She came around.

[Justin Andrews]

But it was a month. I tell you guys, the. The story. When I was. I was 16 and my parents took the car, I didn't speak to them for, like. Like, A year. I told you.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's all.

[Justin Andrews]

That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bro.

[Justin Andrews]

It was like. I. I mean, what makes me laugh about that? Because just thinking her do that, like, it. It takes real effort to be upset for that long.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're, like, intentional.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah. You have to be to drum it up for, like. I remember. I seriously. I recall being like, they need to know I'm still mad. You know what I'm saying? So, like, being in my room before I come out to dinner, just like, I need to get in that mindset because I had a great day at school.

[Doug]

Wait a minute. I see you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. It's like, that's a lot of effort, man. Goes into that to be, like, upset consistently for a month.

[Doug]

That's so funny.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's.

[Doug]

I mean, that's always been my personality. Like, I'll get pissed off, and then I'm done.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Immediately. Look at lights.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You're over it. Yeah. Life moves on. And so, man, to, like, keep that rage for. For weeks and months. It's a lot of work.

[Sal DeStefano]

It finally. It finally ended because we're driving and she was just giving me again. It's a month of attitude. And I'm like, all right, you can be mad. You can be mad. And I just. Which I don't do. I don't lose my time. You guys know me. I'm not one to lose my temper. But she got it from me, and she. I lost it. And I dropped her off at school, and she. Her mom later on texted me. She's like, your daughter just texted me. She said, you lost your. Your mind. What's going on? Like, oh, she. She deserved that one.

[Justin Andrews]

Are there. Okay, between all your guys's kids, parents, you know, spouses. Who has the ability to get your most extreme level out of you? The like. Like, of all of them, you get one. What family member, what spouse, what friend? Which. Who. Who can.

[Sal DeStefano]

What are you trying to do here? What's happening?

[Justin Andrews]

Only you think that way where you're worried about what you're gonna say right now. Everybody else, just be honest about what you're saying. Like, who is it? I know for me, it's my mom.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Nobody can either be.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's either going to be a parent or a spouse or a sibling in my opinion. Opinion.

[Justin Andrews]

The only other one would be kid there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but your kid isn't gonna. I mean, maybe. I guess.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. If you have a think about it, I'm sure there's someone listening right now who's got a kid who is a Fisher Button. Yeah. Who's a little right now. And that's. They're probably going like. No one gets me more angry.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think the closer you are to someone too, the more so.

[Justin Andrews]

So who is it for? Everybody. I told you. Mine is mine.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Mine's my mom.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Oh, so you're always been the case. I mean we've worked on it. It's got better but it's still there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

For me it's one of my siblings or my wife. We could really get. Really get at each other and really annoy each other. But my siblings can do that too. They'll trigger me with like one or two things and then just set me off.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Doug, my ex.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. There's no comparison. No.

[Adam Schafer]

No comparison.

[Doug]

Oh my God.

[Justin Andrews]

That's for me like so you're like naming it could be. Could be that like it's for you. It's my mom.

[Sal DeStefano]

Clear.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I've never. I've never raised my voice or you see swore at My mom is the only person that could ever get that out of me. It's unfortunate to my mother. Right. Because I don't. I'm not proud. I'm not proud to say that but. And of course I'm aware of that has a lot of. Of resentment and other stuff that's layered under there. She can't do that anymore. And that my. But Katrina watched me work through that. So when we first got together I remember that we were dating and she was just like. When she saw that side of me, she'd never seen that side. And it was just with my mom and also the only person who could bring me to tears. Like she can make. That's how emotion. How much emotion she can evoke from me. And nobody else has that has that control. Not. And not even close.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm second probably right. I can get you.

[Justin Andrews]

No, not even.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not even. Doug's naughty.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh God. You guys should know better by now. That's not even our fired up is like a passion.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. It's a good time for what we do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, definitely.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're supposed to mention Luminos by Entera. Their skincare products. I looked up their. Their skin. I think it's firming serum. It's 3% GHKCU peptide. So that's the peptide. You're not going to find that like you're not going to find something with that much ghkcu. This is a peptide. If you put on your skin. The data on this is crazy. What it does to your skin is remarkable in terms of healing, regeneration, you know, working with UV damage, all stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

But 3% if you have, if you have other companies are like you have psoriasis. It is like, you know, you think. And I don't know because I haven't been a dermatologist in a really long time. But their, their move is to go right to the steroids and the, and the steroid cream and all that stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like that immune, basically immune modulating.

[Justin Andrews]

But now where we're at with, with stuff like peptides like this, I wonder if they're starting to include that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think a medical dermatologist, but if you're gonna go to like a functional dermatologist.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you don't even think that a medical place.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know. To be honest with you. I think you probably have to go to someone that's.

[Justin Andrews]

I love somebody who's a, who's a listener that is, that has psoriasis also that actually still sees their dermatologist. Could give me insight because I'm curious. That has been like one of the most amazing products for the psoriasis for sure. So I'm curious if they would.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not so much healthier, it's not suppressing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So much better for you than taking some sort of a.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because the steroids, they start losing their effect after a while and then you get rebound effects. Have you seen videos of people who will use these?

[Justin Andrews]

I, I to this day. Yeah. I, I'm so mad that I didn't understand that when I first started using it because I started using steroid creams and, and injections well before it got to where. And it's worse today than it ever was before.

[Sal DeStefano]

It works for a bit.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah. No, it would actually almost eliminate it, which is what makes you go, oh my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, keep using it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, keep using it. But then every time it comes back, it rears its head twice as bad.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And then you're having to hop around from different ones and then it's a never ending cycle and only getting worse versus at least when I started going the all natural way. Sure. I've never eliminated it completely, but I've kept it at bay and it hasn't gotten worse. So that's to me, the, for anybody who has psoriasis and has gone that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Route, I want to shout out our free forum for our coaches. What's the name of that? It's Gross Secrets. Gross Secrets. Right. Is that it right there, Doug? Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Personal trainer Growth Secrets powered by Mindball.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So it's A free forum for coaches and trainers. The reason why I want to mention it is you guys go on there, you see what the coaches talk about and help each other through and it's. I wish I had something like that when I was a trainer.

[Justin Andrews]

And Ann has done an incredible job having somebody.

[Doug]

It's a great network.

[Justin Andrews]

So the audience understands. Like Anne, who has an edu, you know, educational background, meaning she's a teacher. Right. That, that's her background. Paired with us is like, oh yeah, the, the most amazing combo.

[Doug]

It's more structured that way.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. She's taken a lot of the things that we talk about and is put it in and given free resources. Yes. So there's a ton of free resources on that, on that Facebook page. So if you're not, if you're a trainer and you're not free. Get in there, get in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Element is an electrolyte powder. You add your water, no artificial sweeteners, no sugar. This is the only one with the right amount of sodium. All right, what does this do for you? Better pumps, better performance. You feel much better, especially if you're in a low carb diet or you don't eat a lot of heavily processed foods. Anyway, go to our link drinklement.com forward/mindpump and on that link you'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. All right, back to the show. This segment is brought to you by trainerwebinar.com Adam and I get on these free webinars to teach trainers how to become more effective and more successful.

[Adam Schafer]

Our first caller is Taylor from California.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, Taylor?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing, Taylor?

[Caller (Taylor)]

Hey, how's it going?

[Justin Andrews]

Good, good, good.

[Caller (Taylor)]

Just pulling up my question here. So it's going to be about Kratom usage. The past three to five years. I guess I've been using it kind of periodically, mostly in the evening time, kind of as a replacement for alcohol or any other like relaxing thing. Mostly I use it for muscle relaxation. It's kind of chilling out and sometimes I'll use it as a pre workout for cardio. And lately I've been really trying to dial in my training, nutrition and everything. And I've been wondering if you guys think that this may be holding me back a little bit. I know in the past it is either just me or Adam mentioned that they used to use it but then stopped and I was wondering if they noticed any strength or lifting improvements from coming off of it.

[Justin Andrews]

I have a lot of thoughts and opinions around Kratom. There was a Reason. Just so you know, there's a reason why we have chose not to advertise or sponsor that, even though I admittedly have used Kratom. So it has incredibly addictive properties to it. I know that. And it's a supplement that is kind of in the gray market right now, so you can easily get it at your local smoke shop. I know that we have some fitness people that are connected to us that market it and sell it. Those are some of the people that have came to us and wanted us to push it. And even though it's something that I've utilized, I've used it many times. I'm also very aware of how addictive it can be. And I don't think that it's hurting your gains, although I don't think it's a. It's a. It's a great thing to get addicted to. So just because there isn't a lot of research around it, you know, anything that falls in that kind of gray area that doesn't, you know, just because it's not illegal yet doesn't mean it's necessarily good for us. But I, I don't think it, I don't think it's hindered my gains unless I guess it starts to grab a hold of you so much that you're not doing productive things or you're not able to hit your protein intake and stuff like that. But from a chemical standpoint, what's going on inside your body, it's very similar to. It pairs with the opiate receptors. That's why you get that relaxed feeling, much like, like an Vicodin or a Percocet or something like that. Now, those are pharmaceutical drugs, and this is derived from a, a tree and a plant. And so that's why it kind of flies under the radar. And it's considered, it's, you know, considered a supplement and. Okay. But it's definitely very addictive.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I, I tell anybody who asked me to stay away from it, I started using it. And your. The opiate receptors downregulate fast pretty quickly on Kratom like they would on any opiate. And then when you go off, you'll have withdrawal and do. Does a down regulation of opiate receptors cause any challenges for gains in the gym? I mean, maybe indirectly. Irritability, more pain, anxiety, sleep issues. So now I know there's reports of some people getting liver damage and other things that's. That's not due to the Kratom. That's due to the unregulated nature of It, Right. They're getting it from God knows where and who knows what's in there. Can you overdose on it? Yeah, you could definitely overdose on it. Like you can on any opiate. So I, I, anybody who asked me, like, don't touch it. It was the most difficult thing I'd ever had to stop. So, and I try to stay away from it because I, and I'm not, you know, I don't, I don't get addicted to things in that way. I tend to stop or whatever. I'll use things. Not a big deal. That one's a bad one. That was a hard one. So if you're trying to be healthier, a better person type of deal, I would stay away from it. Just like if somebody asked me about nicotine or anything else. Although I think Kratom probably has worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Potential, at least minimize it and cycle off of it. Right. Because I know how, how strong I can grab a hold of you and you can end up doing it every single day and then ramping up the amount you're doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. If it disappeared right now, never existed again and it makes feel like, oh, what would I do? Probably have a problem now. What's probably affecting your gains is probably not the Kratom unless it's affecting your behaviors, which is possible because of the nature of the, of the substance. But what's probably affecting your gains is diet, sleep and exercise. That's, that's probably what is the issue. So we could get into that a little bit and see like what does your workout look like, what does your diet look like? And then maybe break that down.

[Caller (Taylor)]

Yeah, that'd be great. The past eight months or so I've been running a few different variants of 53 1. So it's a four day program with a couple days of conditioning throughout the week. Every day focuses on a main compound movement and some accessories to help with those. I typically run about six to eight miles a week. Um, I've been trying to gain more strength and mass and everything and my weight's been pretty stable even through the holiday season. Everything just a couple of spikes from the usual holiday eating and stuff. But now it's leveled out again. Um, that's what prompted my question earlier is I feel like I should be seeing more improvements from this program. Well, my diet's definitely in check. Easily 160 grams of, of protein day probably averaging 26 to 2800 calories a day. And sleep could always be better, but it seems like everything is pretty dialed in. So I was wondering if it's potentially the tom usage might be hampering that.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, not likely.

[Sal DeStefano]

What was the thoughts? When was the last time? Like how long have you plateaued for?

[Caller (Taylor)]

I don't know, six months or so. Like my benches stayed right around 205. Deadlifts, 3:40. Squat especially plateaued like right at 250. So I think it might be babe programming or a technique thing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's programming. Programming? Yeah, it's a programming thing. It's I, I go switch it up. Yeah, I bump your calories, switch you to a different program. I like Maps Anabolic or Maps Power Lift. You know, try, I think Anabolic you would probably see some strength gains right out the gates before starting it. Take a week off and then jump into it. But it is a, it is, it's probably most likely a programming thing. Taylor, do you mind if I ask you a question that might be a little personal?

[Caller (Taylor)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you notice any worsening in the ticks when you come off of the kratom?

[Caller (Taylor)]

No, I noticed my stuttering actually kind of improve with kratom usage as I'm using it at night. I'm a little bit more relaxed and everything. So it's easier to talk more. Absolutely.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not with, not while you're on it. But withdrawal when you stop it, I'm sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course when it's off.

[Caller (Taylor)]

When I stop, yes it does get a little bit worse, but it's kind of hard to tell because I only use it at night.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, pay attention to that because the withdrawal will get worse over time. And the more you keep the receptors downregulated, the longer they tend to stay that way. And what you don't want to do is cause modeling, brain modeling and adaptations in the body that are long term. So you see this with any substance that causes an adaptation of downregulation receptors. The longer you use that substance, the more you get kind of these long term type of effects. For example, somebody who uses nicotine for two months will have a certain type of withdrawal versus someone who uses it for 10 years. Right. I'm using two examples that are extreme. So if you notice a worsening with withdrawal, then it's not better. And then what will happen is you'll, you may find yourself trapped in a cycle of I need this. So keep that in mind. But as far as programming is concerned, Taylor, let me send you Maps Anabolic and I want you to follow the three day a week version of that. And I also want you to bump your calories by about 200 calories and then let's start there, take a week off, get on it. And you should see some strength gains by the second or third week.

[Justin Andrews]

Key to this one will be Taylor is not adding to the program because you have more days or more time or what. Like follow it as it's laid out. Give us that for the next at least 30 to 60 days and I think you'll see the difference. But you know, because it's so different from what you're kind of doing right now, you'll find yourself feeling like you're working out or doing less. And so you'll be, I'll just add this or I'll just do that. Don't do that.

[Doug]

Especially cardio.

[Justin Andrews]

Follow it the way it's laid out and like Sal said, bump your calories a bit. And I think that'll, I think you'll see also I think you'll see a nice gains over the next month or two.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Within the second or third week you should see some, some weight out of the bar, five to ten pounds.

[Caller (Taylor)]

Okay. With the combination of working out less per week and also bumping the calories, should I be concerned about any like fat gain?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, not at that.

[Caller (Taylor)]

During that time.

[Sal DeStefano]

In fact, if you really want to speed up your strength gains, I would cut your running in half. I would go from six to eight miles to two and that for sure would see. I'm for.

[Doug]

I would bet that signal to build.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I'd bet money that you'd see strength gains just from that combination.

[Justin Andrews]

Remember too, we're only bumping the calories. A couple hundred calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'll go to muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. We're not, you're not going to jump a thousand calories but in a couple hundred extra calories every day while sending a unique new signal. Right. Of what you're programming. So that, that will, it'll get partitioned over to building muscle. It'll go where it's supposed to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Do it. And give us a follow up email in 30 days, let us know what happens. But if you do what we tell you, I'm very confident you'll see gains in strength within the second or third week.

[Justin Andrews]

And just.

[Caller (Taylor)]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Just coming from out of curiosity, how.

[Caller (Taylor)]

Is Maps Tentabolic Maps Parlift different from the usual five through one program?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it's, it's Maps Anabolic three days a week. It's lower volume. The, the exercise will be very familiar.

[Justin Andrews]

Full body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep, it's full body. Each time essentially you're doing less volume overall. First phase is very low Rep. Then you'll start to ramp up as the program progresses. But that plus the reduction in running and the bumping calories. New stimulus. More. More calories. That's right. Then you should see that. But you have, you're. Do you already have anabolic? Doug says, is it anabolic or power lift? Have you followed anabolic?

[Caller (Taylor)]

No, I took a look at it and it looked pretty exactly.

[Justin Andrews]

Lower volume. Kind of exactly what I said.

[Caller (Taylor)]

Turn me off a little bit. You guys know.

[Justin Andrews]

No, follow it exactly. What I was worried about.

[Sal DeStefano]

Watch.

[Justin Andrews]

What happens is I, I know people when they first get switched over to that they have a tendency, especially people that have been lifting for a while, to go, oh, okay, I'll just do my. Also this and that and no, don't do that. Follow it as it's laid out. Trust the process. If you trust us. Trust the process. Follow that. And from a one Kratom user to another, I would, I would treat it very similar to how I treat marijuana caffeine. It's like, you know, who am I to tell you you can't or don't use it or whatever like that? I, I just think that all those can have addictive properties to it. And if you are going to utilize it because it does help, help help you or you do like it, just be aware of how, how often, how consistent and, and the ramping up of it and give yourself a threshold of hey, when I notice I've done it for this many days in a row or this many pills or whatever it is that you're taking, how powder wise, you know, it's probably time for me to reverse the other way and, and taper down. I think it'll, it'll serve you well if you use it like that.

[Caller (Taylor)]

Thank you. I really appreciate that. It's good timing too because I'm just about out anyway, so it's a good time to lay off of it anyway.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, ma'am.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, Taylor.

[Caller (Taylor)]

All right, thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. That is first Kratom question we've had. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

In a long time.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what too you. It's such a true. It's so frustrating because the forums where you read up on Kratom and the websites, they're all written with the intent of selling more Kratom or they're written by people who really want to justify.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Their usage.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so it, it sounds a lot like early days medical marijuana.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, that's why it's all positives.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's no negative.

[Justin Andrews]

That's why I throw it in there in that category. And like I said, I like it. I like it. I use it, admittedly, but there's a reason why we don't promote it and talk about on the show. I. I just, like, I wouldn't be promoting those things. Other things that I think can be addictive. I think it's important that if you use something like that that you. You taper down, you cycle, become aware, as I tell you what, it ramps up quick. It ramps up really quick.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was the hardest thing I ever had. I ever stopped using ever in my entire life.

[Justin Andrews]

It's up there.

[Sal DeStefano]

And when I. When I went through that, I was.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, oh, it reminds me so never.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I was using not a lot. I was using what they recommend because the typical Kratom user, which I will not recommend this because you can overdose, will use 5, 10 times the amount. Yeah, I use what the bottle said, and I stopped, and I was like, whoa, you guys. You remember that? It came in here and it sucked.

[Adam Schafer]

Our next caller is Nick from Canada.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, Nick?

[Doug]

Hey.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, how you doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good.

[Caller (Nick)]

How are you guys doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, man. What's going on?

[Doug]

In between sets or what?

[Caller (Nick)]

No, this is. I'm renting a place, and this just happened to come with the house, so it's. It's. It's kind of my little office gym setup. So I. I like it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cool.

[Doug]

That's pretty cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller (Nick)]

So before I get started, big thanks to you guys, big inspiration for me. I've been a trainer for. For six years listening to you guys since 2019, and it's definitely helped my business, my personal growth, my professional growth. And then one little side thing, Adam, you might appreciate this. I, on the side, run a mobility group class, because classes, you know, they should die. I'm trying to influence the mat, and I'm trying to promote it more towards progressive overload and stuff like that. I was at F45 for a while, but I kind of branched off and have been doing my own thing, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome. How's that? How's that going so far?

[Doug]

That's awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

It's good.

[Caller (Nick)]

I actually do it for free, and then I just donate the money to Big Brother, and it's been on and off a little bit in the past years, but I've started it since May, and then I got a gym that I was doing it at, wanted me to run a few classes, and hopefully I can influence the classes to be more strength focused.

[Justin Andrews]

That's awesome. Yeah, very cool.

[Caller (Nick)]

So my original question was, I'm kind of a digital nomad. So in Canada it's super cold in the winter. And so for example, today it's minus 10. And that's actually like not that bad. So I hate the winter time. Rents are weirdly expensive, so I kind of do short term rentals, go with the flow. So that's why I'm kind of here and actually have this. To do my business. I work mostly on zoom like this, and then I have a few in person people here and there, and then I have a decent amount of clients who I do programming for. The last two winners, I've gone to South America for three months at a time. Places like Ecuador, Argentina, Colombia, Dominican, and then even one month, three times separate. I had a client out in British Columbia that needed me to cat sit, pet sit. So then I've been able to like travel across here and there and still work online, which is kind of cool. And I think it's somewhat unique. When I'm home, I obviously have like lots of family and friends and I have another job. I teach out of college, but it's kind of part time and it's kind of pick and go where I need to. And so when I travel, my workload gets cut in half and I have like minimal distractions. So I've been doing what I call Monk mode, where I can listen to lots of books, podcasts, try to work on the business, try to do more social media stuff. I've been practicing podcasting funny enough the last few months, and then I've been blogging somewhat regularly for about a year. And I'm very excited with way it's going this winter. I was hoping to go away, but Towson's situation actually was too good to pass up. And I'll probably go away for a month in April, and then after that I think I'll go away next winter because again, I can only tolerate so many winners. So I just turned 30 this past year. And I want to know what you guys would kind of do if you were in my situation from the standpoint of how would you maximize personal growth and business growth while you're traveling abroad. Where would you guys like to go? What kind of activities would you like to do when you guys go to those places? And there is a small caveat because about 10 of my clients I have to do Zoom and there's a time zone constriction versus the other 10, 20 people who I have. Again, I just kind of have programming and can send out voice notes and videos and stuff like that. And Then how would you guys also maximize, like, the work life balance where you can still travel for several months at a time, but then also maximize, you know, what you want to do when you travel, but then also maximize the time for, you know, development. So, yeah, I don't know if you guys have any more questions or information.

[Sal DeStefano]

For that, but yeah, yeah, I got you, Nick. Okay, so let me, let me paraphrase all of it so I can answer this with what I think here. So you're, you travel a lot, you kind of, you know, do your thing, enjoy yourself. You do a lot of personal development stuff when you travel, then you come home, you don't have a permanent residence, but you do stay in places and kind of take advantage of each environment. And the, the question is, how do you balance all that? And then, oh, yeah, you're turning 30.

[Caller (Nick)]

So I already, I just turned 30.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna guess that what you feel inside of you as a, as a young man is a yearning for something and you can't quite grasp what it is. Like, what is it? Why am I not feeling fully fulfilled? I'm assuming that's why you're calling us. Like, what can I do? Is there anything I can do better?

[Caller (Nick)]

A little bit. It's also like, I kind of lean into the seasons of life. So, like, I know I'm never going to be this age again, and I don't have too many things here. Like, I don't have a house, don't have a significant other. Like, I do have family that I come home to. But, like, I may as well travel while I can because I know once I have, like a family, I'm going to be kind of stuck before I'm at.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. And you just really, you just really solidified what I was thinking about that last comment. So there's a, there's a couple phases in a man's life that he goes through. There's the young man phase, where you're free, you live for yourself, you go around, do your thing. There's no tie down, no nothing. Then the second part is where you grow up, you become responsible, you start a family, raise kids. And unfortunately, what happens to a young man is what he's sold and what he's told and he believes. I believe this, a lot of us believe this, is that the second phase sucks. I'm stuck. I can't go anywhere. I got to live my life while I can, enjoy life while I can, because then when I take on responsibility, everything sucks. It's a huge lie. It's a massive lie. And what you're feeling right now is only going to grow until you take on your responsibility, find somebody, settle down, start a family, and stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about others. You need to be more other focused. My advice to you, if you were somebody close to me, is I'd look at you and I'd say, bro, you lived a great life. You did what you wanted. You live for yourself. Now it's time to live for somebody else. So you got to make those hard decisions and become, become a man.

[Justin Andrews]

And somebody else isn't going to find you bouncing from Airbnb every month. So at some point, you need to set. And by the way, this is also going to serve you career and business wise, because I'm hearing everything you're doing and I'm just like, man, it's the fact that you can do that and actually survive and make enough money to pay for your hobbies and to travel like that is already cool enough.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got some skills.

[Justin Andrews]

If you want to be really good and you really want to, to scale a business and, and make exponentially more money. Part of that would be settling you down somewhere. Settling down and building a home base, building a business around the time zone that you're in and, and really letting it grow. And, and that also, guess what, will probably attract the right mate and then, then that next phase.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nothing will make you grow like that.

[Justin Andrews]

And what, what I feel you're wrestling with is right with Salz, we were in. I was already thinking the same thing. Is that wrestling with that, that am I going to fall into that Peter Pan syndrome? Or is this my body naturally telling me that this is kind of time for me to settle down? And then how do I do that without losing all this stuff that I love to do so much? And I agree with you, Mike. It just gets better, bro. It just gets better. You won't lose that independence, you won't lose that neat side. And, and you'll love it. Just, it reminds me also of the phases of, of having a child. Like, you know, everybody talks about, oh, what's the best phase? It just keeps getting better and better and better.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're all different.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had a friend just like you, my friend Bav, I hope he's watching right now. Love him. And he was in his early 30s and he would always rent like a room in some apartment or some house, and he had a business that he could run whenever he was in town. And then he would travel for four Months out of the year. And I was envious for a while. Like, man, this guy's just free. He does what he wants. When he comes into town, he dates somebody, then he leaves him and does his own thing and he's whatever. And then he met somebody that he really fell for and he settled down and had a child. And I talked to him and he's like, man, I was lost. This is the best thing ever. He's like, it's hard. It's different. There's an old. The old me had to die. But then this is so much better. Now I see him on Facebook. He's got a beautiful daughter, he's got a great business, wonderful wife. And that old him is gone. And so this is just. I think that's what you're probably.

[Doug]

Seasons, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it. Yeah.

[Doug]

You're going through this season. Obviously now it's kind of like tugging at you, like, what's next? Like what's in the future? And. And again, stability is. It's not sold very well.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Doug]

It seems like it's like a. You're boxed in, but at the same time, all these things you love to do, it's not like you're forfeiting that. You're just. You're bringing other people into what you love to do. And that's all. It's all going to attract people. Once you create that stable environment to draw people. People in.

[Justin Andrews]

Since you're a reader, there's a good book by Rick Warren called Purpose Driven Life.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, love that. Great, great book.

[Justin Andrews]

So probably a good read. Pick that up right around now. I think it'll be a good time. But yeah, dude, I think. I think you got a pretty cool setup, what you're doing, and a lot of fun. I. I even feel like the. The question you didn't even have like a full direct question is sir. So I. I think we all get the same sense from you on where you're. Where you're at in your life and.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, and we probably sound like your mom and dad.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

A little bit.

[Caller (Nick)]

But I was, I was. I know it wasn't like a direct question. I was just kind of curious on like. Okay, like, I'm gonna ask, like, I look up to you guys a little bit as like, you're like halfway between where my parents age would be at my age. So it's kind of like a nice stepping stone. And I. I obviously admire you guys a little bit, so I'm actually a little surprised by the answer. But like, it's probably exactly what I need. Usually when a caller calls you guys, they almost predict what their answer is going to be. And I wasn't expecting that answer, but now that I think bowling, Hell yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, this will be the most incredible adventure of your life. It will also be harder than anything you've experienced. But you want to grow. If you really want to grow. Because sometimes people say that I want to grow, but really what they mean is I just want to be comfortable and enjoy things. Things. But if you really want to grow, growth doesn't happen from being comfortable. It happens from being uncomfortable and settling down. Dedicating yourself to one woman, having children, will. Will. It will make you into somebody that you can't even believe if you embrace it. And part of embracing that is sacrifice. Nothing new is born without something dying. So there's a part of you that's going to. You kind of like, retire it. Like, okay, I'm not that person anymore.

[Justin Andrews]

And the. The advice for me to. To piggyback off that advice is, is this is not us saying, or me saying, settle. Go find a woman, settle down, get married, have kids. It's.

[Doug]

Find your purpose.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. Is. Is at least find a home base and start to really build you and a foundation. I think you doubling and tripling down on that, you'll attract the right person.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'll happen.

[Justin Andrews]

You'll find that they'll find you. Because you're so heavily focused on growing as an individual and building that foundation for yourself. It'll happen. So I don't know if I'm pushing you to go find and marry and have a kid right away, per se, but I think you're at a point in your life where it's probably time to build kind of a home base.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Purpose Driven Life. Great recommendation. That book is amazing.

[Caller (Nick)]

Okay, I'll put it on my. My Next Wish list on audible. I think I have like 50 on my audible list.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, real quick.

[Caller (Nick)]

Put it at the top real quick.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nick, do you have your trainer? Do you have Prime Prime Pro? Can I give you something? Something?

[Caller (Nick)]

I. I have those. I have a few other. I. I myself need to do symmetry more often. I know that it's hard to step back out of it. I think I have a few other. I have, like, the rgb. Is it rg?

[Sal DeStefano]

RGB bundle?

[Caller (Nick)]

Yeah, I have that. And then you guys don't need to give me anything. Are you guys already.

[Sal DeStefano]

I. I'd love to. Are you on our forum? Nick, let's keep talking.

[Justin Andrews]

You on our forum or trainer?

[Sal DeStefano]

Course.

[Doug]

I'm not.

[Caller (Nick)]

I was debating doing the trainer course at some point, and then. Yeah, that's where I probably would. Would want to go at some point.

[Doug]

I don't like.

[Caller (Nick)]

The one thing I don't like is Facebook. I try to avoid it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, good for you.

[Caller (Nick)]

But, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, well, if you. If you want to be on one of those forums, we have a free trainer one and a free general one.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd love to see you in the course because listening to your cool business that you've already kind of done for yourself, the CRM that we're doing now, I think would serve you really well. So I definitely think that that would be great. So if you're not at least tend to attend the webinars. We just did it. Did another one.

[Caller (Nick)]

I know you guys did one last night. I was. I was doing my mobility thing last night, but I think I signed up for it just in time so I could get, like, the recording sent out.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, Good. If you didn't hit us back, but if not, yeah, definitely watch those.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Cool.

[Caller (Nick)]

Thank you guys for your time, and I hope you guys have a good rest of your day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Doug]

That's an interesting question.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, were you guys all feeling the same.

[Justin Andrews]

I was just like, where's the. When's the question gonna come?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you know, it's like, I don't have any responsibility. It's joining USL. I'm turning 30.

[Doug]

Were you guys the first in your friend group to be that guy that actually created stability and like, kind of broke off of that? That was my experience.

[Justin Andrews]

On the opposite. That was the last one. Yeah, I was the last one. That was. I was.

[Sal DeStefano]

You had good reason and it worked out for you. Yeah, it worked out perfectly.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

There was a plan for you. For sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I mean, this is just every. Listen. Young women experience this faster than men because they have a quote unquote biological clock. So they hit 30, and all of a sudden they're like, oh, my God, I want to have kids. A man doesn't. A man doesn't have that.

[Justin Andrews]

And so I think that's why it's confusing when they feel it, because they still feel it the same way. That's right. It's different interpretation. Because I shouldn't feel this.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. And what do they do? They placate it with video games and pleasure and money, vacations all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, and sex and whatever. And then next thing you know, you're in your 40s. Oh, I need to settle down. And it's like, oh, what happened? You know, so, you know, he's feeling it for a reason. I hope he takes our advice because it's. I think it would be the right thing for him to do.

[Adam Schafer]

Our next caller is Justin from Connecticut.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, dude?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing, Justin?

[Doug]

What's up, brother Justin?

[Caller (Justin)]

What's up, Justin?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller (Justin)]

How you guys doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

We're good, man.

[Caller (Justin)]

My question is about grip and grip strength. So I have pretty small hands. It doesn't mean anything, I swear. And my palms are, like, really, really smooth, like sneakers with no traction on the bottom. So with deadlifting, the bar slips right to the tips of my fingers, and I'm like, holding on for dear life. I can put. I usually have to put the bar down after like, two or three reps and regrip. I. For years now, I've been able to squat heavier than I can deadlift just because I can't hold on to the bar. I can't perform hook, hook grip. I used to be a crossfitter, so I.

[Justin Andrews]

Not anymore.

[Caller (Justin)]

Thank you, guys. I can't do the hook grip with my thumb under the other fingers because I can't reach all the way around the bar. And gloves also don't help. I do farmer's carries and suitcase carries to try to improve my grip, but I think it improves. Improves a little bit, but I still can't get a good grip on the bar. Wrist straps have been making a big difference, but then they bruise my wrists so much that some of my patients at work have made comments asking if I was, like, harming myself, and I'm not. So what do you guys suggest for improving my grip?

[Justin Andrews]

How about chalk? How about chalk, Justin? You chalk at all?

[Caller (Justin)]

I. I used to do that in. Yeah, I used to do that in crossfit. I haven't done that here because I work out in my basement, and that makes a mess. Is that the answer?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Well, liquid chalk, too. There's liquid chalk that works really well. So, I mean, that'll help, right? That'll help.

[Caller (Justin)]

I'll do it.

[Justin Andrews]

There's also. There's also this, like. I mean, a lot of. A lot of. I mean, I don't know where you're. Where's your deadlift at right now? Are you already. Are you still deadlifting pretty good weight before that happens or. Where does that happen? 135? No, no, no.

[Caller (Justin)]

Like maybe 220, 230. I can get two reps. I put it down.

[Justin Andrews]

I do two or three reps. I could do two or three reps.

[Caller (Justin)]

So in the phase one of Maps Anabolic, I had to do just four reps, and I was able to get up to like 230, but I couldn't even do four at a time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Liquid chalk, mix grip, switch the grip back and forth. And then to strengthen. And then to strengthen your grip, get yourself a gripper. They're really cheap. You can buy them on Amazon.

[Caller (Justin)]

And like the little squeezy thing with.

[Sal DeStefano]

The coil, that's it.

[Justin Andrews]

Ah, okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

And don't get a strong one. One. Don't get one that's really hard. Get one that's easy. Okay.

[Caller (Justin)]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

And then throughout the day, frequency.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, throughout the day, three or four or five times a day. Just. And don't go crazy. Don't give yourself a pump and don't make it all hard, but like, squeeze it like 20 times and then put it down. And then a couple hours later, squeeze. Squeeze it again 20 times, put it down. And just. If you start to get fatigued or you feel sore, you did too much. And so you just. It's just frequency, practice, frequency and practice. And then lastly, look, there's a few things you said. I don't want to make a mess with chalk. My hands are soft. What do I do about that? I get a bruise on my wrist. Like, you got to accept that you're. You're working out and there's going to be a little bit of, you know, you're going to see some marks, you're going to get some damage. This is. This is kind of what it is.

[Doug]

Are you like some dirt under your name?

[Justin Andrews]

Are you a massage therapist or something? Are you doing something with your hands on your client? Like, where's the clients?

[Caller (Justin)]

So I'm an optometrist, so I touch people's eyes and eyelids a lot. So the gentle, delicate hands work for that.

[Doug]

I see.

[Justin Andrews]

I had a feeling it had some sort of root reason why this was important.

[Doug]

Your hand model or something?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, beautiful.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, you. Liquid chalk is. I use liquid chalk. I go to a commercial gym. They don't. They don't allow chalk. And so. And liquid chalk works really well. So you just rub it on and then you allow it to dry, and it's. It's as good as traditional chalk and it doesn't leave a mess.

[Caller (Justin)]

Yeah, I will definitely be getting that. And then the wrist straps really make a difference. I didn't know also if I should maybe buy one of those women's. I think that's what they call it, the women's bars that are A little bit thinner in circumference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that could help.

[Caller (Justin)]

So that would help too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Definitely, Definitely could help. And then mix grip, you know, one set like this. One set like this. Right. And then. And here's the deal. The limiting factor for your deadlift is your grip. So over time, your grip will get stronger. If you're trying to maximize the hip extension, you can do exercises like good mornings where the bar is across your back and then that will train that particular area. But a lot of people look at a deadlift and they think it's, oh, it's just a back exercise or just the hip exercise. No, it's also a hand exercise. So whatever your limiting factor is, that's just your limiting factor. So always consider that as well.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Caller (Justin)]

Okay. I. I'm on Amazon right now and I'm putting in my cart.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Right on, Justin.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you, dude.

[Caller (Justin)]

Thank you guys so much. You guys are.

[Justin Andrews]

Are incredible.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Thanks, Justin. I appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, take care, guys.

[Doug]

You rock, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was funny. He's like, it hurts. Makes it dirty.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I knew he had. He had to do something with his hands. I thought he was massaging part of his profession.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Justin Andrews]

You don't want chapped calluses while you're massaging people doing something there.

[Doug]

Like get outside and dig a hole with your hands.

[Justin Andrews]

When he's talking about. Can you imagine doing like, like optometry stuff with, like, bidding Greenfield's hands?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, gosh.

[Justin Andrews]

Imagine his finger. Did you imagine his fingers?

[Doug]

Leave the office right away?

[Justin Andrews]

Dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's crazy. No, but you're, you're, you're. You know that frequency advice I gave them, it works exceptionally well. But the mistake people make is they turn it into a workout.

[Doug]

They overdo it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but if you just play with one kind of throughout the day a little bit.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like our pull up advice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Justin Andrews]

Just get up there. You don't try and go to failure. You get up there and just do one or two pull ups, jump back down, do it all day.

[Doug]

Pick up heavy stuff, man. Like all kinds of different shapes and sizes. Just do it.

[Adam Schafer]

Our next caller is Dina from New Jersey.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Dina.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, Dina.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Dina. How can we help you?

[Caller (Dina)]

Hi, how are you?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good.

[Caller (Dina)]

So I've been a trainer for 20 years and have trained clients with multiple health issues, but never one that has had a stroke. Recently, a client has asked me to train her husband who had suffered a pretty severe stroke and is still struggling to get his strength back. He Does PT and rehab, but is missing the full body muscle strength. I would love to get some advice on how I would modify a usual assessment test when first meeting him. And should I focus more on machines that provide a set range of motion to build some initial muscle because the brain and nervous system has been affected by the stroke. What exercises would you recommend I begin with for the client to learn the essentials of how to brace, engage the core, ground the feet to the floor, changing their center of gravity, gravity more to the back of their legs. So I've since met with this client and actually got more information about the issue. So his right leg is flaring out, he walks with support. His right arm has been affected. He has some face tingling and then not related to the stroke. He has a meniscus tear in his right knee. He had hip replacement. So his right leg is a little bit longer and he has neck impingements. Since meeting with him, he has this goal. He expressed this goal of being able to lead prayers for the Jewish holidays which are in September, October, which would mean being on his feet for a few hours at a time. I think that not only involves the strength component, but an endurance one as well. I've started doing certain exercise to increase the mind muscle connection, especially with isometric holds and have seen progress in just a couple of meetings. I've also recommended that he walk on the treadmill, like a treadmill protocol, slowly increasing the time with that, like just a few minutes if he's consistent with it. Do you think this is the right approach? And what should I be focusing on more to help him get closer to achieving his goal?

[Sal DeStefano]

That's perfect.

[Doug]

You're doing great.

[Justin Andrews]

Doing great.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's exactly what you need to do.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd love to have armor carries with him.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You know what you do is you. Because of the stroke and it affected him, you know, on one side more than the other, which is common. You would do unilateral exercises for certain ones. It really depends on what's affected. But the idea is to slowly see if you could progress him. And I love isometrics. Yes, I love isometrics for this kind of stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

What about carries like one side at a time and if he can do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

But he walks assistant. Right. But, but if he. Right, yeah, yeah.

[Caller (Dina)]

He's not very stable. So I have, we've done sit in stand. So that was something that he was doing in rehab and I had him demonstrate it for me and right away I could see like the core engagement and the mid back engagement was Lacking. So even from just practicing that a few times, the first time we met, he was able to focus in on that and right away had a lot more stability and force coming up. I spoke to his rehab perfect, you know, technician like his pt and he said he's not limited, you know, in terms of the stroke. He's very motivated, but he needs assistance a lot. So in terms of farmer care, he wouldn't be able to do that. Like he can't really walk or he doesn't feel comfortable doing that yet. So I've done like bent knee raises with holds at the top, calf raises, holding the last one, incorporating like rear leg raises to strengthen the glutes because he can't really get down on the floor to do a bridge yet. So those type of things.

[Sal DeStefano]

Perfect.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're.

[Doug]

You're so very smart, doing great.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're on point. So isometrics, I would really use a lot of isometrics. And remember, isometrics isn't just isolated to the end range of motion. So, you know, like, let's say you do an isometric at the top of a calf raise. Right. That's one part of the movement. But I can also do an isometric halfway up. Right. Come up halfway and hold. Or I go to the. Or I go to the stretch and I come up just a little bit and hold. So this is the way that I would use isometrics with someone like this is I would pick the part where they can do an isometric, get stronger there, and then I'd move them out of that range of motion and do a hold there. Essentially you're strengthening the full range of.

[Doug]

Motion, especially the unstable part.

[Sal DeStefano]

Through isometrics. Exactly. And then you said, just what you said, Justin, I think was perfect. Instead of a former walk, you could do a stationary hold hold. Right.

[Doug]

Where you hold something one side progressively, very progressive.

[Sal DeStefano]

And just holds himself there while he's holding weight that, you know, is more on one side type of deal. Yeah.

[Doug]

So he learns.

[Caller (Dina)]

Would you recommend that I do that on his right side? Because that's the arm and the hand and the grip that's more effective.

[Justin Andrews]

Or would I start both. Both sides independently? So you hold one. Yeah, one.

[Doug]

Let the weaker side determine the load.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Right. And then.

[Caller (Dina)]

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah, just have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller (Dina)]

Because I've seen even with using the band, because we've started also doing that for like kind of mid range back rows. So I see even that like the more he focuses in on, the stronger the grip is. So what would cueing be? Let's say if he's holding a free weight for that, like, how would I necessarily cue that when there's still like a little bit of a lag in that communication?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it would. Literally, as he's doing the movement, you're going to have to cue different parts of the movement, but isometrics with the dumbbell too. So let's say I'm doing.

[Doug]

Absolutely.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's say I'm doing a row. Okay. And let's say I'm doing a one arm cable row and I'm seated or something. So you have him in a stationary position. He's stable. He holds onto the handle. I would have him do do a couple sets where he's holding back here, way back. Then we can do a set where he's holding mid range. Then he could do a set where he's holding here in the shortened range.

[Doug]

Rotation as well.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, a little bit of rotation even.

[Doug]

So Payloff press too. Like we could progress to this point.

[Caller (Dina)]

Yeah, it was on my list.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. Sustaining any kind of rotation because you got. But what you're doing is you're countering all the forces. Laterals, you know, rotational. And so we just got to consider how we could, you know, progress. Obviously the rotational one's going to require the most stability, which is what we're.

[Adam Schafer]

Going to work towards.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, you're doing great. You know, but again, yeah, you're on point.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, the best advice I could give you is look at a movement, look at the full range of motion. And then each point within that range of motion, you can do an isometric.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, like three points. The very beginning, middle.

[Sal DeStefano]

There you go.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, do it right time.

[Caller (Dina)]

Can I ask you a quick personal.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course. Go for it.

[Caller (Dina)]

Okay. So I've, you know, obviously been trading myself too, and really I love doing the low rep range. You had an episode where you guys talked about kind of with your programming, keeping the low rep ranges and then going to like the higher rep ranges separate to kind of see what's really effective. So let's say like with anabolic programming, so you start off in the low rep range and then it progresses to doing like more of the 12, 15 rep range. But for my age group, I'm 46. So for women at this age, they really recommend for the compound lift, staying in that low rep range for the nervous system. So is it okay that I'm kind of combining both, like doing, let's say keeping the rows deadlifts, pull ups in the lower rep range and then for a Little bit of hypertrophy going to the 12, 15, or really, I should start separating.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. What you just quoted is a myth. So the reason why they tell. That's the reason why they say avoid the higher reps is because the volume increases when the reps go up. And so what people don't do is they don't adjust their volume. Okay. So if you do five sets of five, and then you move to five sets of 30, your volume is incred. Increased dramatically. But all those rep ranges are hypertrophic. All those rep ranges strengthen your central nervous system. You just gotta be mindful of the increased volume. So as you go through maps, anabolic phase 2 and 3 require more recovery. And if you're finding that it's frying your body a little bit, cut the volume, cut the volume down. But they're all valuable.

[Caller (Dina)]

Yeah, I kind of came from the 12 to 15 rep range, you know, so getting into those lower was really exciting and fun. I don't want to leave them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, no, but they're all valuable. If you just can't get stuck in the low rep range, then you'll also plateau.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's just good practice to kind of weave in and out of these different types of modalities.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I would. I would argue that novelty trumps any one of the rep ranges. So whatever one you do more of moving out into the other one is going to benefit.

[Doug]

They all build muscle at the end of the day.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Caller (Dina)]

Okay, great. Thank you so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you, Dina.

[Caller (Dina)]

Okay, take care. Bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bye. Bye. On point. I love it. I love what you're doing. Have you guys ever trained somebody with a stroke?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's amazing the progress they can make. Of course, it's limited depending on the damage that's caused, but it's incredible how the body starts to redirect. You know, patterns compensate in some cases. Compensations is a real adaptation that can be beneficial for someone who's lost complete function of a particular.

[Doug]

I love that, though. Isometric shoes on point 100. Being able to, like, like, reconnect and recruit again. And, I mean, there's really nothing better than that.

[Justin Andrews]

And this is. This is the type of client that, I mean, makes you love what you do, because this is the person.

[Sal DeStefano]

You change their life.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, completely. And you can see pretty good progress pretty fast. You're doing all the right things that she's doing right now. She'll see. She'll see the progress for a while. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look, if you love the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin I'm at Mind Pun Stefano and Adam's at Mind Pump.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the like. Love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[I]

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