2535: Seven Steps to Go from Dad Bod to Fit at 40

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump Episode 2535 – "Seven Steps to Go from Dad Bod to Fit at 40"

Release Date: February 17, 2025

In episode 2535 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve into a comprehensive guide tailored for men over 40 aiming to transition from a "dad bod" to a fit and healthy physique. Produced by Doug Egge, this episode distills over four decades of combined fitness industry experience into seven actionable steps, backed by scientific insights and practical advice.

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1. Lift Weights to Get Strong

Sal Di Stefano initiates the conversation by emphasizing the paramount importance of strength training for men over 40. He stresses that lifting weights yields faster and more substantial results compared to running or participating in group exercise classes.

“Lift weights. Get strong. Nothing will give you faster results, better results than that alone.”
— Sal Di Stefano (00:14)

Justin Andrews echoes this sentiment, sharing his personal journey of focusing on strength building before integrating other forms of exercise. He illustrates how starting with weightlifting signals the body to build strength progressively without the initial pressure of burning excessive calories.

“I just documented on the YouTube channel... my first couple weeks of working out, I didn't even break a sweat. It was really like, I'm weak right now. I haven't been lifting.”
— Justin Andrews (01:22)

Adam Schafer further elaborates on the benefits, highlighting that strength training not only builds muscle but also enhances fat-burning capabilities and balances hormones, particularly testosterone. He contrasts this with other exercise forms that may lead to muscle loss alongside fat loss, which can be detrimental in the long run.

“Strength training... protects your muscle better than others. Other forms of exercise don't really do that.”
— Adam Schafer (04:08)

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2. Eat Only Real Food

Transitioning from exercise, the hosts advocate for a diet centered around whole, unprocessed foods. This approach helps regulate appetite and prevents overeating, which is often triggered by ultra-processed, engineered foods designed to be hyper-palatable.

“Avoid ultra processed foods... they are specifically engineered to make you overeat.”
— Adam Schafer (06:11)

Justin Andrews adds that making better food choices simplifies the process, eliminating the need for stringent calorie counting initially. By focusing on whole foods and prioritizing protein intake, individuals can naturally achieve a balanced and nutritious diet.

“Avoid eating out, I'm avoiding all the packaged foods... Just follow these rules of eating whole foods, going after my protein intake.”
— Justin Andrews (07:36)

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3. Track Protein Intake

The third step focuses on ensuring a high protein diet by consuming approximately one gram of protein per pound of target body weight. This strategy not only supports muscle growth but also enhances satiety, making it easier to adhere to dietary goals without constant hunger.

“Eat your target body weight in grams of protein.”
— Adam Schafer (08:20)

Justin Andrews simplifies this by advising individuals to consume protein-rich foods first in their meals, enabling them to meet their protein targets effortlessly while enjoying a variety of meats without overcomplicating their diets.

“Eat whatever meats you want... as long as you eat them first.”
— Justin Andrews (09:48)

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4. Eat Vegetables Second

Following protein intake, the hosts recommend prioritizing vegetables in each meal. Vegetables provide essential fiber and nutrients while being low in calories, aiding digestion and preventing overeating by enhancing the feeling of fullness.

“Eat vegetables and eat them second in the meal... they help with digestion and it's hard to overeat vegetables.”
— Adam Schafer (14:33)

Justin Andrews underscores the effectiveness of this approach by reflecting on common dining habits, such as consuming high-carb appetizers before the main meal, which often leads to overeating and underconsumption of protein-rich foods.

“Discipline yourself to eat the meat first, then go to the veggies... your body's natural signals of satiety kick in.”
— Justin Andrews (16:01)

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5. Get Consistent, Good Sleep

Quality sleep is highlighted as a critical component for overall health, fat loss, energy levels, and injury prevention. The hosts advocate for a consistent sleep schedule, emphasizing the benefits of prioritizing sleep by maintaining regular bedtimes and wake-up times every day of the week.

“Prioritizing it... go to bed at this time, and every morning I'm gonna wake up at this time.”
— Adam Schafer (19:17)

Justin Andrews introduces the "three, two, one" method as a simple strategy to enhance sleep quality:

• Three hours before bed: Stop eating
• Two hours before bed: Stop drinking
• One hour before bed: Turn off lights

“Three hours before, don't eat before three hours, don't drink two. And then lights one.”
— Justin Andrews (19:16)

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6. Get Your Hormones Checked

Acknowledging the hormonal changes that occur with age, the hosts recommend undergoing hormone testing to identify potential imbalances. Optimizing hormone levels, particularly testosterone, can significantly enhance vitality, energy, and overall quality of life.

“Embark on this health journey... get your hormones checked and see if you are off.”
— Adam Schafer (19:38)

Justin Andrews emphasizes the importance of starting with lifestyle changes before considering hormone replacement therapy, noting that balanced hormones amplify the effectiveness of diet and exercise efforts.

“If we have any hormonal imbalance, it just makes all the other things... far more difficult.”
— Justin Andrews (21:28)

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7. Ignore the Scale and Mirror

In the final step, the hosts advise focusing on health markers and performance indicators rather than solely relying on the scale or mirror. Improvements in energy levels, strength, mobility, and overall well-being are more reliable indicators of progress than weight alone.

“Focus on your health, your vitality, and your performance in the gym.”
— Adam Schafer (22:51)

Justin Andrews shares his experience of initially relying too heavily on the scale and mirror, only to realize later that true fitness is better measured through non-visual metrics that reflect internal health and functional performance.

“If you're becoming healthier... the scale and mirror will move in the right direction.”
— Justin Andrews (24:43)

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Listener Q&A Highlights

Doug Egge moderates a Q&A segment addressing common concerns related to diet, training, and lifestyle:

1. Building a Simple Meal Plan:

   • Adam Schafer recommends meal prepping with protein and vegetables as the foundation, accompanied by easily accessible carbohydrates like rice or potatoes. He also suggests having protein shakes as a contingency for meeting daily protein goals.
   • Justin Andrews concurs, emphasizing the simplicity of preparing bulk meals and integrating protein shakes to ensure sufficient intake without overcomplicating the diet.

2. Moderation with Beer and Junk Food:

   • Adam Schafer advises enjoying indulgent foods and beverages in moderation, preferably in social settings, to prevent them from becoming habitual substitutes for healthier choices.
   • Justin Andrews highlights the importance of maintaining flexibility in the diet, allowing occasional treats without derailing overall progress.

3. Workout Plans for Beginners Over 40:

   • Adam Schafer promotes their specialized program, Maps 40 Plus, which focuses on full-body strength training twice a week, complemented by daily walking.
   • Justin Andrews adds that a simple two to three-day full-body routine paired with consistent daily activity can yield significant fitness improvements.

4. Lifting Heavy Weights vs. Bodyweight Exercises:

   • Adam Schafer clarifies that "heavy" is relative and emphasizes using challenging weights that maintain proper form, whether through free weights or bodyweight exercises.
   • Justin Andrews reinforces that intensity can be achieved without excessive weight by manipulating tempo and focusing on technique.

5. Improving Recovery and Flexibility:

   • Adam Schafer indicates that excessive soreness may signify overtraining and advises adjusting workout intensity accordingly to promote better recovery.
   • Justin Andrews emphasizes optimizing workouts to feel energized rather than depleted post-exercise.

6. Staying Consistent Amidst Busy Schedules:

   • Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews advocate for incorporating short, daily workouts instead of infrequent, longer sessions to enhance consistency and fit fitness seamlessly into a busy lifestyle.
   • Justin Andrews shares personal insights on how regular exercise boosts overall productivity and quality of life.

7. Involving Family in Fitness Journeys:

   • Adam Schafer suggests integrating active play with children as a natural way to engage the family in fitness without making it a forced activity.
   • Justin Andrews advises leading by example, fostering an environment where family members are inspired to join the fitness journey organically.

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Conclusion

Episode 2535 of Mind Pump serves as a robust framework for men over 40 seeking to transform their physique and enhance their health. By focusing on strength training, a protein-rich diet centered on whole foods, consistent sleep, hormonal balance, and prioritizing health over mere appearance, listeners are equipped with the tools to achieve sustainable fitness. The practical advice, reinforced by real-life experiences and scientific backing, makes this episode an invaluable resource for those embarking on their fitness journey later in life.

For more detailed workout programs and resources mentioned in this episode, visit mapsfitnessproducts.com.

Transcript

[Sal Destefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump.

[Adam Schafer]

Mind Pump.

[Sal Destefano]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Adam Schafer]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, go from dad bod to fit. If you're 40 or older, we give you everything you need to do this. Now. This episode is brought to you by a sponsor, Mphormones.com work with doctors on checking your hormones and seeing if hormone replacement therapy is for you. They also work with peptides, so go check them out. Mphormones.com we also have a sale this month on some workout programs. Maps, Anabolic and the no BS six pack formula have been bundled together. Discounted heavily. $59.99 gets you both. Both of those. That's a huge discount. Go check them out. Go to Maps. February. All right, here comes the show. You're 40 years old or older and you want to go from dad bod to fit. Here are the first seven steps you need to take. In fact, these are the only seven steps you need to take to get fit. Number one, lift weights to get strong. Don't run, don't do group exercise classes. Lift weights. Get strong. Nothing will give you faster results, better results than that alone. You want to add this stuff later, you can do that. Lift weights.

[Justin Andrews]

I love this. I saw when you were mapping this out and we first started this, I was like, this is literally the steps that I kind of went through when I redid my thing where I just documented on the YouTube channel. You know, a lot of people ask questions about what that process looks like. And there's kind of like a. A stair step or ladder approach that I do of things that I'm focusing. Obviously, the very first one is I got to get in the gym and start lifting weights, you know, so that's the very first thing is and focused on getting strong, not going in and burning a ton of calories, sweating like crazy. In fact, my first couple weeks of working out, I didn't even break a sweat. It was really like, I'm weak right now. I haven't been lifting. So I'm going to go in here and start lifting weights to get stronger. I don't have to do very much since I haven't done anything in the past. And so literally anything is going to send that signal to build strength. And so you slowly apply it that way and then turn the knob. Every week, you start adding these.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So lifting Weights, the primary result you'll get from left, do it wrong. Right is strength, which results in muscle gain, which results in a better ability to burn body fat. It tends to balance out hormones, or at least it makes your testosterone at the very least more effective. Other forms of exercise, although they improve health, they don't do this nearly as effectively. And when I'm Talking to the 40 or older crowd, they typically have more time constraints and responsibilities. So they don't get the, they don't have the privilege of being able to add all these different forms of exercise. And one of the mistakes that they make, and most people make this is they go to the gym and they think, I'm going to go do the most high calorie burning form of exercise. So they run or they do these group workout type classes like Orange Theory or whatever. And thinking that this is going to give them the best results, it's not. Your best bet is to lift weights specifically to get strong. And then like you said, Adam, if you are getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction. It's the best thing to measure. It's like, am I doing, can I do two more reps than I did last week? Am I able to add a little bit of weight? Do I feel more stable? Is my form better because I'm stronger? As you continue down that path of strength gains, especially in the first year of this routine, it results in results, results in muscle gain. So lift weights to get strong. That's the first absolute first step.

[Justin Andrews]

Now why do you think that is? Do you think that we're still holding on to like the early 70s and 80s of, you know, run to get in shape and like, because obviously you're talking about middle aged men, most of them, even if they want to build muscle and look a certain way muscularity wise, most of them have weight to lose. And so do you think that's why there's still a large percentage of them that will gravitate towards this high intensity class or go for run as a, as a mode of losing weight?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So if you lose weight, some forms of exercise protect your muscle better than others. Strength training obviously is the best one. Other forms of exercise don't really do that. So when you get weight loss with other forms of exercise, like group exercise classes or running, what you see is muscle loss along with fat loss. You don't want that. That doesn't set you up very well long term. Plus, most men would like, would you, what would you rather have, like less body weight with less muscle or less Body weight with more muscle or the same muscle. Right. I think most men would pick the muscle one. So strength training does that and it's just very effective. So when you look at the studies on different forms of exercise, it results in pure fat loss. Whereas other forms of exercise don't protect against the body's adaptation to losing weight, which tends to be slow the metabolism down. It does this by, by paring muscle down.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You have to explain why this is so important because I think the thought process that I think is that they are having is, oh, let me get this weight off first and then I'll go build the muscle. I think that's the, I think that's what leads people to do that is they, they've got this beer belly and even though they want to build muscle or they want a muscular physique, they, I think they go, let me lose the fat first and then I'll. Then I'll build muscle.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And now can you do that? You can, but you're picking the hard way to do it.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Because the muscle helps with the fat loss. So building muscle helps with the fat loss. Losing the muscle makes fat loss more difficult to maintain or even continue.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what I think is the most important point to make is that it's, you could do it that way, but it's much more difficult. And the cool part about focusing on building the muscle is you'll actually lose the body fat and lean out while you're building the muscle. The other is not true.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

If you're catabolic. Right. If you're in a calorie deficit, you're running, you're burning calories, you could burn body fat. Right. You can lose body fat that way, but you're not going to simultaneously also build muscle. So you're, you're far better off focusing on building the muscle because you're going to get the. Leaning out, losing body fat while also building muscle and building the metabolism.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That's right. Next is to eat only real food. All right, what am I talking about when I say real food? Avoid ultra processed foods. Avoid foods that are created or engineered in a laboratory. Foods that have multiple ingredients. Right. Foods that come in boxes and packages. Now why would you avoid those? Is it because they're unhealthy? Not necessarily. It's not necessarily because they're less healthy than whole natural foods. It's mostly because those engineered foods are specifically engineered and very well so to make you overeat. When you avoid ultra processed foods, you start to eat appropriately for your body naturally. It is not a struggle where you're fighting the urge to overeat. You feel like I'm eating less calories. When you eat whole natural foods, your body, your body's systems of satiety, your body will tell you when you're full in a much more accurate way. And the data on this is crystal, crystal clear. The multiple studies have been done on this. And when you consume a diet that's majority ultra processed foods, like most Americans, you're gonna eat about 5 to 800 more calories a day just listening to your body. So if you cut them out, boom, you automatically eat less calories. You're eating nutrient dense whole natural foods. In other words, you'll lose fat. You'll build the muscle through the strength training, and you don't feel like you're dieting like you would if you still stuck to those foods and just tried to cut your calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. What you listed right here as steps two and three is the main thing I just focus off. Once I start lifting to build muscle, all I do is focus on those two things. And what is so nice about this is all I'm doing is making better food choices. So I'm avoiding eating out, I'm avoiding all the packaged foods. And then your third step, which is the tracking the protein, just doing that through whole foods, I don't have to count a bunch of calories yet. I don't need to go that far. Like, eventually we get real granular. And when I try to get shredded, eventually, of course, I'll start to measure out all the macros, the calories. But I don't think at first it's necessary at all. At first, if I just follow these rules of eating whole foods, going after my protein intake, a lot of the other stuff kind of takes care of itself.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So you mentioned the third step, which is eat a high protein diet, but eat the protein first in all of your meals. Now, to be more specific, how much protein. Eat your target body weight in grams of protein. Here's what happens in my experience most of the time when men in this age group, so I'll stick to this age group. When men in this age group lift weights properly, eat only whole natural foods, hit their target body weight and protein, and eat it first in the meals. And I'll tell you why in a second. But when they do that, here's what happens naturally. This is what you're talking about, Adam. Without tracking, without getting crazy with what I need to eat or whatever, just Doing those steps right there. Most men will fall within a body fat percentage that's between 12 and 16%. But by itself. So between 12 and 16%, which is athletic body fat percentage. Now you're not a ripped six pack, but who cares? You can get that later. But most men, especially in their 40s, if they sat between 12 to 16% body fat. I mean, you're fit, you're strong, you can move and you're not counting everything that you're eating. It's not this stressful process just from doing those things. Now why eat the protein first? Protein is the most satiety producing of the macronutrients, proteins, fats and carbs. So on top of eating whole natural foods, eating high protein eating at first also naturally controls your appetite and helps you eat more appropriately. So it's like you follow those three steps. You almost don't have to worry about anything else. In fact, most people don't have to worry about anything else.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I know people are listening right now and they're probably going like, well, what proteins is that? Protein powders? Is that only chicken? What I love about this is why I love this tip and why this is one of the first steps in this process for me is that you don't even have to overcomplicate that. Eat whatever meats you want. Eat like, and that can be rib eyes and tri tips. And you think like what, I can have stuff like that? Yeah, if you focus on I'm going to hit my protein target. So the, and that's another thing that I love that you say too, is like to keep this simple, you're, it's just one gram per pound of body weight that you want to weigh. So if you're male and you're trying to lean out and you want to weigh whatever your weight is that you want to be, say you're 220 pounds now and you feel like 190 is what you look best at. You go for 190 grams of proteins, you keep it very simple. You don't have to challenge, you don't have to measure and weigh and do all the math to figure out the 2.2 gram per lean body mass. Just literally go one to one on what your target is. Eat whatever meat you want so long as you eat them first. Right. So as long as you eat the protein first and go after that and then everything else seems to fall in place, I think you get easily down to 12, 15%. I mean I can get down to like 10% eating this way, just doing that without even tracking calories yet. And so. And this has been the same thing for all of my clients. This is why. And I love this because I don't. Most of the people that we've trained our career are not fitness fanatics. They're people that they want to be healthier. They're at middle age right now. They know their doctors either told them something or they felt they were playing with their kid in the backyard. They got winded from just a few things and they have that moment of like, okay, I need to take care of this. They're not trying to step on stage. They're not. They're not trying to Tupperware and weigh everything, every single thing they eat going forward, but simply following these steps right here, and you're going to get to a body fat percentage. 90% of men are going to be very, very happy.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. And what it'll feel like, by the way, is you'll feel like, I'm eating a lot. That's what it's going to feel like because it makes you feel full so quickly. In fact, probably 70% of the people, the men that I've worked with in this age group who were targeting this protein, eating whole natural foods, you use the number of 190 grams of protein. I mean, that's like 45 grams of protein for. Was that four meals, they would come back to me and say, I can't eat that much protein. I'm full. It's very difficult for me. Now, that's a great place to be if you're trying to lose a bunch of body fat. Isn't that a great place to be? To be. To feel like, I can't eat any more food versus I'm starving myself. This is so hard. And that's exactly what happened. And again, they would fall into this nice body fat percentage that was maintainable, fit and healthy versus this struggle where, oh, this is not sustainable. I might be able to do this for five months, but I'm going to go back to what I was doing before, because this is an absolute nightmare. That's not what we're talking about.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't overstate too, the psychological benefits of approaching it this way, too. I mean, you and I both have experienced this for so long where you tell somebody you can't do something. And that inner rebellious child in you is. That's what you're thinking about all the time. If you tell me I can't do something, all I'm thinking about is that thing that I want to do versus telling a client. I'm not going to tell you what meats or what things you can't have. I'm going to say, go hit your protein intake, eat that first. Just follow that and just watch what happens. And then exactly what you said. The most difficult or the biggest challenge that I would have is the clients coming back and saying like, this is hard to eat all this food. And it's like, like you said what a great place to be when we're trying to lose body fat.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. Next is to eat vegetables and eat them second in the meal. So you have your meal, you have your protein. Okay, here's my 30 grams of protein or my 50 grams of protein, whatever your number is, from whole natural foods. And eat that first. Then I'm going to eat my vegetables. Eat that second. Now why? Well, vegetables tend to have more fiber, they're less calorically dense, they help with digestion, and it's hard to overeat vegetables, especially after you've eaten your protein and you get the nutrients that you need. Now why is this so important? Because the third step, you'll notice as we go through this doesn't exist. You know what you eat for the third one, whatever you want now, as long as it's not processed foods. Like I'm not saying your third thing is potato chips or candy or, or ice cream, still whole natural foods, but you want to eat more. You want to eat some potato, you want to eat some rice, you want to eat fruit, you want to eat something else afterwards. If you feel like it, go for it, go for it. So long as you eat the protein first, eat your vegetables second. Eat as much as you want afterwards and you won't overeat. You definitely will not. Over the vast majority of people listening to this, you'll eat in a calorie range that's going to be appropriate for your body. And again, it's going to bring you that nice body fat percentage range that's considered athletic.

[Justin Andrews]

This is, this is so wild how well this works. And I used to love this with the clients that would come to me and tell me how much they love carbs. Like a lot of times they would attribute all the fat that they put on their body, on their body from their love for carbohydrates. And you tell somebody who tells you that as a client, one of the things you don't want to do is to go into this thing where I'm going to tell that client, you can't do these Things because they're already admitting how much they love those things. And so telling them that, oh, well, you could still have that. So long as you do this and this first. Go for it. It's such a wild experience to see one them look at you kind of confused, like, wait a second, you're not saying, I can't have that or there's not a certain amount? No. So long as you go, hit your protein and take in that meal, you eat it first, then you get take care of the vegetables and the greens and stuff that are on your plate, then go ahead, have whatever you want until you're satisfied. It is wild how well this works. But what happens to us is, and you know this, if you've anyone's been in a restaurant anytime recently, what do they serve to you first? Bread, chips. It's all the carbohydrates. They load you up. And so we've actually been trained to eat our carbohydrates before we eat the meats. And how many times. And I'm guilty of this too. Nothing worse than filling up on appetizers, chips and bread. And then my expensive steak gets there. I don't even finish the steak. You always feel so guilty. So if you just discipline yourself to eat the meat first, then go to the veggies, most of the time, your body's natural signals of satiety kick in and you don't even eat that much.

[Adam Schafer]

It feels like you're not trying to eat less necessarily. And again, I've done this so many times. The vast majority of people I've done this with, they, through this process, their body fat percentage falls in this nice sustainable range. And then later, if they want to get down to like 10%, 9%. Although I'll tell you what, right now, some people have the genetics where this is me, like, this is how I eat. I don't count a single thing. And I'll walk around around 10% body fat. And some clients will do that as well. But most men, 12, 15%, it's a great place to be. Or 16% is a great place to be without feeling like you're trying really hard. Next up, this is a tough one, is to get consistent, good sleep. Oh, now I know when people listen, like, yeah, great, what does that look like? What are you talking about? What are my strategies? What supplements should I take? Or whatever. It's actually this first step to this is prioritizing it. Okay, most people, but especially most men in our 40s, but most people in general, we view sleep as this thing that happens at the end of the night and I'm just tired, I'm gonna hit the pillow and then it's gonna happen. And if I'm exhausted, I'll sleep and then I'll wake up when I'm supposed to. That's just the way it works. And in the morning, I'm exhausted and groggy, but I need my caffeine, my coffee. I feel better. If you simply prioritize it a little bit and say to yourself, every night I'm gonna go to bed at this time, and every morning I'm gonna wake up at this time. And it's the same seven days a week. Which let me get into that for a second. If you know, you need eight hours of sleep or to be in bed at a certain time, that gives you eight hours before you wake up. And you do that Monday through Thursday, but then Friday, go to bed late so you can sleep in. Saturday, same thing, Saturday night to Sunday, you've actually changed your circadian rhythm and you are gonna give yourself jet lag every Monday. So you actually lose a lot of the benefits of sleep, even if you're still getting eight hours, because you sleep in, because you've shifted your circadian rhythm. So the key with this is bed at the same time, wake up at the same time and prioritize it. Oh, I know, you know, I gotta be in bed by 9pm or 10pm or 11, whatever. Do it every night, same time, wake up, same time. That takes care of good 70%, 80% of people's sleep issues. And sleep has a profound impact on your body's ability to burn body fat, energy, strength, injury prevention. That's one people that know about. If you want to dramatically increase your risk of injury, as proven by lots of studies, get terrible sleep and then go work out. So just get consistent, good sleep makes everything else so much easier.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, I know there's all kinds of, you know, supplements that are out there. I know we can talk about magnesium. I know we can talk about hormones and how they play a role in stress and cortisol. But the point, I think, of this episode is to give you the least amount of things to get the greatest return, make it simple and make it as simple as possible. And I can't, I mean, literally, it is just that simple as making it a priority. I mean, there must be thousands of books dedicated to a morning routine, but very rarely do we ever talk about the importance of a night routine or does anyone even say they have a night routine. What was the what is. I love what Cabral. The three, two, one method. It's the three hours. Three hours before, don't eat before three hours, don't drink two. And then lights one, right.

[Adam Schafer]

Lights off.

[Justin Andrews]

That right there to me is I. I love simplifying it with something like that. With 3, 2, 1, you making that a priority and not over complicating this. And again, just focusing on it the same way you focus on your morning routine to get ready for work. I think that covers 80, 90% of my men that I was trying to get in shape just by simply doing something like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. Next up, and this is more important, obviously, for the age group that we're talking to, and that is to get your hormones checked. Now, typically, what you want to do is you want to embark on this health journey for at least a couple months, a few months before getting your hormones checked, because oftentimes that regulates hormones in a positive way. But then get your hormones checked and see if you are off, if your testosterone's low, if cortisol isn't looking so great, if you have an inverse cortisol response where it's high at night, low in the morning, that could really affect your sleep, right? Look at your insulin sensitivity or your fasting glucose. Look at these things, and then you may be a candidate for hormone replacement therapy. And hormone replacement therapy, really, the attitudes around it in the medical community have shifted so dramatically recently. Because what we've really seen now through the data is if you regulate your hormones, if you go do hormone replacement therapy in combination with a healthy lifestyle in a way to optimize hormones, right? So we're not talking about bodybuilders, we're not talking about going crazy with performance enhanced. Literally, just let's optimize your hormones. What we see is an improvement in quality of life and a skewing towards improved longevity, or as Dr. Seeds like to say, health span, right? So he hates the word longevity because that just means you're alive or you're not dead. He says, I want to see how long you're alive for, right? How long are you healthy for? And hormone replacement therapy, when appropriate for men in this age group, it just improves your vitality. So now you're exercising, you're eating right, you're getting good sleep, check your hormones. Looks like my testosterone could be optimized. You use testosterone and what you'll notice are improvements in vitality. Now, many of you won't need this, but the ones that do, you'll see a big difference for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Now this is in the fact you said that obviously clears up why you put it this step. This is the one that I would have argued that I would have put first or earlier on in all these steps. And I know why you didn't, because you just covered it right there, which is majority of people should be okay. Majority of people should be able to follow each one of these steps and see massive change and improvement in their physique just by following those steps. Personally, with my own personal experience with hormones and with clients that I've dealt with, if I can get you to go do your blood work and get a blood panel right out the gates, I'm always going to do that first just because I know that if we have any hormonal imbalance, it just makes all the other things that we just listed far more difficult. And it just makes those. If they're aligned and optimized, it makes all those things twice as powerful. I mean, a. A man with suboptimal hormones could go through all those steps, and they're going to see positive change, guaranteed, no matter what. You'll see positive change in your physique. But a man with optimal hormones that does all those things are going to see two to three times the difference in it. So when I get a client in a perfect world, I'm like, go. No matter what they think, I'm like, go, get a full panel. Let's see where you're at that way. I know as we're going through this, plus, I like to show them, as we're doing all these healthy lifestyle things, how much that in itself could potentially make.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm glad you said that, because that's what I used to do, too, Adam, and it wasn't like, oh, your hormones are off. Let's get on hormone replacement therapy. It's like, okay, your hormones are off, but you're inactive. You don't eat a healthy diet. Let's start those steps first, and let's see how much we improve your hormones. And nine out of ten times, everything looks so much better.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

90 days later.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

In that one out of ten times, though, sometimes you don't see a response. Sometimes this is becoming a little bit more common now, and that's a whole other discussion. And then hormone replacement therapy can really be a total godsend. We have [e-mail] by the way. If you're looking for a place, go there, and you can work with doctors to check that out. But that's definitely more appropriate once you start to hit your 40s this is when you start to see this become an appropriate thing for men. Lastly, ignore the scale, ignore the mirror. Focus on your health, your vitality, and your performance in the gym. Now, here's why. It's not because the scale and the mirror aren't giving you potentially valuable information. But if you're becoming healthier, if your vitality is improving, your energy, your mobility, your libido and you're getting stronger, you have more stamina, you have better flexibility, those will make the scale and the mirror change. They will move the scale in the right direction, and they will change what you see in the mirror for the positive. Now, if I just focus on the scale in the mirror, oftentimes what happens is we ignore health signals, we ignore performance, and you can sacrifice health and performance, and then the scale doesn't matter. Who cares if you lost 30 pounds on the scale, if 25 of it was muscle? And who cares what the mirror shows? Because you're. Your view may be a little skewed if your vitality is terrible and you're weaker and your athletic performance has dropped. So health and performance move those in the right direction, the mirror and the scale will move in the right direction. Scale and mirror don't necessarily move health and performance in the right direction.

[Justin Andrews]

I love this final step. And it was something that I didn't fully understand this or grasp this until later in my career. So Definitely the first 10 years, I fell victim to utilizing this as the primary source of our gauge on how well we're doing, not realizing how misleading it could be for so many people, and not realizing how many times I had a client on the right path or doing something well. But because the scale didn't reflect what they thought it should reflect, or the mirror didn't reflect what they wanted to reflect at that time, changing the course. And yet we were right on track. And so I love that. Not only that, but we talk about this a lot, that if I'm going to get a client like this in really good shape, and I want them to maintain that for the rest of their life. It's my. It's so important that I help them attach their success to all the other markers that are going to show improvement through this journey. Their hormones, their energy, their libido, their sleep, that's what's going to keep this client fit forever. And if all I do is I measure body fat percentage or scale, or look in the mirror, look how much better you look, that is fleeting and eventually that person will fall off the, off the wagon again. Versus if I can show them, as we're going through this process and attach to all the other positive benefits it has in their life, they're far more likely to maintain it. Not to mention how misleading the scale and the mirror can be.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally.

[Doug]

We've got some questions here related to diet training and lifestyle.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, let's start with diet. Doug.

[Doug]

The first question is, how do I build a simple meal plan that helps me lose fat without feeling like I'm starving all the time?

[Adam Schafer]

You know, literally what we just talked about and what'll help with this, by the way, is a little bit of meal prep makes a big difference with this. So, you know, we talk about eating your protein. First you have your vegetables, then afterwards you can eat your starches or whatever. If you cook once or twice a week, you have a grill. Most men like to grill. Grill a bunch of chicken thighs or a bunch. Or cook a bunch of ground beef. Cook yourself a big, you know, get a big frozen bag of broccoli or whatever and boil that. Now you've given yourself three days of food set up for yourself so that it's easy to plan. This is true for everybody. But I find this especially true for the men that I worked with. When you make it kind of simple, it's easier for them to stick to, like, when they have their food prepped. I mean, people tend to stick to it.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I can't agree more that that's as simple or that's as complex as we need to get right now. Like, we're at a place right now. If you just want to get to the point where you're lean, fit, muscular, and you're coming from a place of a higher body fat percentage, say higher than 20%, this is going to get us extremely far. I mean, probably to where you're completely happy with the way you look.

[Adam Schafer]

And.

[Justin Andrews]

And by the way, even if, let's say you're the man listening right now and you're like, I do want to get six packs shredded, 7% body fat. This is still the.

[Adam Schafer]

This is still the first step.

[Justin Andrews]

This is still the first steps. Like, we don't need to get that. And you're not getting more granular earlier doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get there any faster. So you may as well still follow these tips, take it as far as you can, and then if you want the next level, you can get to weighing and measuring and doing all that stuff. But I agree, simply being prepared and having the meals, and honestly, primarily, it's the Meat. Finding carbs is pretty easy even. Or you can do rice or potatoes in bulk. You can do a ton of that. It's typically how we do it. I cook, you know, six cups of rice and we put it in a big tub inside the refrigerator. It stores really well. And then it's really about prepping all the meat. So I have a good source of protein that I can grab that's already prepared for me. That's the main thing is being prepped for that. This is also where I do recommend like a protein shake as a, as an emergency. Right. Whether you do the ready to drinks or you have a protein powder that you like, having it but not. Our goal is always to not have to use it is how I would coach my clients. Our goal is to try and get it through meat, through whole foods, but if you don't, you still have that as a possibility or an option. But that's how we want to treat it is like it's there in case of an emergency, in case you didn't have time to prep meals. But the goal is always men with.

[Adam Schafer]

A higher target body weight, typically 170 or higher, typically would need a shake to be able to actually hit their protein. Because again, you want, you know, if you want to weigh at 200 pounds, that's four 50 gram protein meals. That's not easy to do. And so typically men in that, you know, you know, target weight, I would have them add a 30 gram shake at the end of the day just because they couldn't get there.

[Justin Andrews]

This is exactly why I brought that up. Because earlier we were saying how the most common feedback you get if you follow these tips is, oh my God, I have a hard time still hitting my protein intake. I'm so full at them. And that's where I say, listen, at the end of the night, add a protein shake and that would normally solve that problem and the client's completely satisfied with food all day long. And then we just add the shake at the end of the night.

[Doug]

Do I need to completely cut out beer and junk food or is there a way to enjoy them in moderation?

[Adam Schafer]

You know, the term moderation depends on what you think moderation is. I mean, do you need to cut them out? No. But how often do you really need to have them? I the way I used to coach my clients when it came to things like alcohol and junk food is there is value to those foods, but the value is extremely narrow. The value is simply in the enjoyment of the experience. Now if you're enjoying the Experience by yourself. I don't think there's a ton of value if I'm just sitting there by myself drinking beer, eating junk food. I think those are better saved for when I'm connecting with my buddies or my friends. And that typically looks like once a week at most. So I think you can enjoy them, but enjoy them when they're important, don't enjoy them when they're not important. If you look at the way people consume junk food, it tends to be on their own, on the run. When they want something super tasty, they're stressed or just whatever. It's typically not like, hey, my buddies and I like to get together twice a month and play poker. And so then I'll have a couple beers and two slices of pizza. And if that's the only time you have those things, you're doing great.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a real art to answering this question. I think if I had a client that asked this question because they love this part, right? Every Sunday they go out and they have pizza and beer or they have these rituals that they've created around these foods they know aren't serving them, but they have a major attachment to them. There's a real art to getting them to move away from this addiction that they have to this without ripping it off and selling. They can't ever have it. So my answer to that client would be like, yeah, we can have that. So long as you do those things I told you first. So long as you hit your protein intake, eat your vegetables first, and then if you still feel like a beer afterwards, or you still feel like you need to have a dessert afterwards, then go ahead. And what I would find is that most of them would get through those, those foods in that order and they wouldn't. And the ones that really wanted that pizza, really wanted that beer, they weren't doing that after they hit their protein intake. They were doing that in replace of these high protein meals. And so if I were to tell them yes, they still can, so long as they do this first, what I know ends up happening is they end up getting full, they don't have those cravings for those things and we're fine. And then I also know that if I tell them, no, you can't because or no, if you don't, don't do that because that's going to slow down our progress, which it will, right? The more of these cheat meals or beers or junk food that we introduce in the diet is only going to slow down our process. If I tell them that, then they're then they're like this, I can't have it, I can't have it relationship with it. And I know better than to put them in that position. So I would always tell them they can, even though deep down I know my goal is to try and move them away from that being such a regular part of their life and saving it for those special occasions like Sal's talking about for the birthday or the rare occasion they get together for a reunion, things like that. So they're enjoying the social aspect of it and it makes sense to do that and get away from the habits that they've created of every Friday night or every Sunday they do these things. And so I would tell the client they could, so long as they did those things, knowing what would happen.

[Doug]

Next up, training questions. What's the best workout plan for someone in their 40s who hasn't exercised regularly in years?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, maps 40 plus. We have a program specifically for people in this age group and it's strength training focused. Now, generally speaking, if you don't have the program, you're like, okay, you know, I could get that program. But what are you loosely kind of talking about? Full body workout twice a week strength training is great. That's it. If you haven't worked out, especially if you haven't worked out regular in years. But by the way, if you have worked out regularly in years, two days a week full body workout is also still an incredible workout routine and plan. Now, I know there's a lot of bodybuilding routines out there with splits where you're hitting two body parts this day, three body parts. That way you're training five, six days a week. Most people would get a fit, healthy body with good vitality with two days a week. Now on the other days, that doesn't mean you shouldn't be active. So I'm not saying do nothing on those other days. On those other days, just try to move, just walk, walk throughout the day. If you strength trained twice a week and you did a decent amount of walking, 8 to 10,000 steps on the other days, you're going to do absolutely great. But to be specific, we have a program, Maps 40+ that is literally lays it out, tells you what exercises, sets, reps, gives you exercise demos, everything.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, not only that, but it's loaded with all the lifestyle stuff too. So you've heard us talking about sleep routines. You've heard there's a ton of that in that. I mean, that lays it all out. If I was just answering this question, generic, I would Tell someone two to three days full body. Like if you're doing your own thing or you, you don't have the means to financially invest in the program or something like that, then the generic, simple answer is if you follow the steps that we laid out, you follow a two to three day a week full body routine. That's going to get you there.

[Doug]

How often should I train each week to lose fat and build muscle without overdoing it?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I mean, we just said it. Yeah, we just said it. Be active every day. Walking is the best form of activity. It's the least likely to injure you. It's the one that requires at least prep or whatever. Walk after your meals. That's a great way to do it. Ten minutes after breakfast, lunch and dinner, there's 30 minutes of walking right there, or a little more if you want. Aim for about 8 to 10,000 steps a day. The data shows that majority of the benefits you'll get from walking happen right in that bit. So you can get a pedometer you could use. If you have a apple watch or whatever, it'll count the steps for you. Strength train two days a week, three days a week, max. And monitor the intensity. That's the most important thing to monitor. So make sure that the workouts feel appropriate. In other words, you're not hammered. You don't feel super sore. You feel better at the end of the workout than you did before you got started. That would be it. And not only that, is that not overdoing it? That's also effective for years.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's optimal. I mean, it's, I mean, if you want even more specific advice, it would look like three days a week full body routine. Follow the seven steps that we laid out. Walk for 10 minutes after every meal.

[Adam Schafer]

Done.

[Justin Andrews]

That's it. Like literally just that. And you're gonna get, you're gonna get probably shredded. You're gonna get pretty ripped and looking pretty good. Following everything we've laid out. And if you also include being active in walking, because we didn't even really dive into the walking aspect, but the average person only steps three to 4,000 steps a day. And if I can just get you walking for 10 minutes after every meal, we're going to significantly improve that. That paired with two to three days a week of full body routine, we're building a killer physique.

[Doug]

Should I be lifting heavy weights at 40 or is it safer to stick with body weight exercises?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's a common question. Heavy is relative. Heavy just means challenging. So what may Be heavy for one person is too light for another person is too heavy for another person. Also, bodyweight exercises can be extremely heavy. Like pull ups is a bodyweight exercise. One arm push ups is a bodyweight exercise. Handstand pushups is a bodyweight exercise. So body weight bands, machines, free weights, all resistance. The key is to train with a weight that is challenging. That's what gets the body to adapt and improve. But appropriate, in other words, don't sacrifice form and technique for intensity. But that's pretty much it. Like, I mean, I used to train clients in their 80s, quote unquote heavy. But heavy for them is relative. Right. It's all about what's appropriate for your body.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm so glad you said that. I can make, okay, 135 pound squat heavy for me. So it's not about how much weight you put on the bar. I think that's the misconception, especially with a lot of men. Right. That's a lot of our ego dating back to when we were kids and we were trying to impress each other with our bench press, our squat, our deadlift of those movements. And so we think, you know, here we are, 40 years old, getting back into shape again. I want to get back to what I was lifting when I was in, in high school or college or whatever. It's like it's not necessary yet.

[Adam Schafer]

We.

[Justin Andrews]

You hear all the benefits of lifting heavy weights and how beneficial that is. Well, yeah, but you can again make 135lbs extremely heavy. You slow the tempo down, you pause, you focus on the form. And at this point in this stage of our life, especially if you haven't been training for a really long time, I'm always going to push a client on a lighter weight they can control. But if it just isn't intense enough, it doesn't feel like they're struggling enough. I slow the tempo down, slow it down, focus on the technique and make it heavy without actually necessarily putting load on the bar. That's how we build this and we lay a good foundation. Down the road we can talk about stacking more plates on and really moving weight. But for this initial first month or two, I mean, man, you. Again, if you refer back to the series that I did on the YouTube channel where I documented all this, I mean, I definitely was not lifting what would, what would be relatively heavy to what I could do in the past or just say a year or two ago, and so yet getting incredible results. So you do not have to stack tons of weight in order for something to be Heavy.

[Doug]

I feel stiff and sore after workouts. How can I improve my recovery and flexibility at this age?

[Justin Andrews]

Your 40s?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So no, you know what, here's the deal. You've worked out too hard and you've used, you've done an inappropriate for your body workout. Trying to improve recovery after the fact is okay, but it's like trying to put out a fire with a 16 ounce cup of water. If you feel really stiff and sore after your workouts, it was just, it was too hard. Too much, too much and too hard. You should probably feel little to no soreness the day after your workout. You should feel more energy after your workout than you did before you got started. If after your workout, the day or two afterwards you're moving funny, people can tell you're sore to the touch, you overdid it. And that is not a good indication of a good workout. It's actually an indication of a bad workout and you'll get slower results as a result of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, the goal is to do the least amount possible to elicit the most amount of change. And if that's the case, then what I'm looking for after a workout, I want to feel like I worked out, like I want to move that muscle and go like, oh yeah, I could tell I worked out today. But I don't want to be sore to the touch or feel limited on how I can move that muscle because I'm so sore. That's a gauge of over training. And I wish I understood that as a young kid lifting, I think I would have progressed so much faster. I also would have been able to help clients so much better. When I was a young trainer trying to do this, because this was a mistake I made a lot of times it was pushing to a client to soreness or using soreness as a gauge of the effectiveness of the workout, when in fact it's the opposite. I'm wanting them to get a good workout. I want them one, to leave the workout refreshed, energized, like they could do more. So that's how I want them to leave the workout the next day and the next two days when they feel from what they feel from the workout should be this. If they're sore, it's very mild. So mild they feel totally fine to come in and do another work. If they feel like, oh my God, sore to move that muscle or sore to touch, that means you overdid it for sure.

[Doug]

We have some lifestyle questions now. How do I stay consistent with my fitness goals when work and family Responsibilities take up most of my time.

[Adam Schafer]

God, you know, what's funny is, you know, we said two days a week, you know, strength training. You could also work out every day for 15 minutes.

[Justin Andrews]

You.

[Adam Schafer]

You could literally do two strength exercises, training exercises a day, which would take about 15 minutes, and you would be set. And what I found, what we found is that it's far more. It's far easier to stay consistent doing it that way than to take out 45 or an hour, you know, twice a week. So what does that look like? Well, if you have access to a barbell, you could do that at home, or you could use a suspension trainer. We have another program called Mass15 specifically designed for this right here. And what's cool about this is you might miss a workout or two, but you've worked out four or five days that week. When it's two days a week and something happens on that day and it's your hour workout and you miss it, you've missed a lot. So one of the best ways to consistent is to take your workouts and do a little every day instead of a lot. Some days it's far more, Far more effective at staying consistent, though.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, this is, this is what the protocol I followed in the series. So the series where I did this, you know, getting back in shape in my 40s, I did two exercises. Two exercises a day, five to six days a week is what I did for this, in this entire process to. To get in shape. So I, I love that protocol, especially when this is the challenge, right? You want to spend a lot of that time with family or you're really busy with work. But one of the things, you hear me communicate this in the series too. And I said, I don't care how long I've been doing this, how many times I've fallen off for a little while, gotten back into shape. But I, I know that I always have this concern of, like, man, I just got so much going on in my life right now with work and this and that, and it's just like, how am I going to fit this training session? And never fails, every time I build this routine into my life, it's almost like I gain back double the time that I spend in the gym. So if I'm spending a half hour, an hour in these workouts, it's almost like I get an hour to two hours more in the day. So it never, it never feels like I'm taking away from. I'm more productive as a, As a, you know, as a business owner. I'M more productive as a partner or relationship partner. I'm more productive as a father. Like, I'm just, I'm better.

[Adam Schafer]

More energy.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm better in all those things. It's just, it's wild how it happens. And I totally understand this feeling and thought process because I feel that way every time also. And then every time I'm reminded when I get back into the routine of like, for some reason I've got more time, I'm getting more done in my day, I'm spending more, more time with my family, yet I'm dedicating this time to the gym. And it's just, you move at a, when, when you're healthy, you're fit, you move at a faster pace, you're far more productive, you have so much more energy. And again, it's, I'm reminded every time I go through this. So you. But there's ways to do this. 15 minute workouts or the two in a week, doesn't matter. I don't care which one you choose. I guarantee you get the return on that time. Times two to three.

[Doug]

What's the best way to involve my family in this fitness journey? So I don't feel like I'm doing this alone.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, God. You know, one thing that dads look at, the data on dads in particular and some of the value that they bring to their families. A lot of value, right, that fathers bring to their family. But one thing that's unique to fathers is how we play. If you look at the data on the benefit we bring children, there's lots of benefits, but among them is play. So play more. This is like huge. Like, take your kids outside and do something active. Play actively. Take them on a hike, take them somewhere that requires movement. Now instead of tracking your steps, you're spending time with your kids and you guys are outside throwing a Frisbee, running around, playing hide and go seek or whatever. And it's like. And by the way, you end up moving more doing this. So when I track steps, the most steps I ever take is when I take my kids to the park once or twice a day because I'm out there just having fun with them. It's so much more enjoyable and I'm connecting with my kids, so that's the best way. Now, could you include your family in your workouts? You can, but be careful with this because if it becomes work and force, you'll make them hate it. But if you go play with them, I mean, kids love that.

[Justin Andrews]

This is such a leadership question to me. Like, if. If I'm trying to incorporate my family into this health and fitness journey, I'm trying to lead them, right? And it reminds me of when I got my first leadership role. I was only 21 years old, and I was responsible for a staff of 20 people that were all older, that were all wiser, more experienced, more educated, and now I had to lead these people. Probably one of the hardest things to do, right? And I remember learning the hard way what I had to do, which was actually just focus on what I was good, what I was great at, and then get them to ask me questions about how I did said thing. It was a far better way than me coming over and be like, now that I'm the boss, do this, do that. Same thing. Goes for leadership in my house, right? When it comes to health and fitness, instead of telling my family, you have to eat this way or you do this or come with me to come do this thing, I'm far better off by exemplifying it at a level so good that people go like, man, what are you doing? Or I want to try that, or how come you do this? And they ask me questions, then it allows me to lead the family. And then I take that on as a competitive thing with myself. It's like, man, if they're not asking me questions, I could do better, I could do more, I could be better at what I'm doing. And so I first focus on myself and being a great leader first, and then that is what will eventually bleed into the rest of the family. Leading from that way, I think, is far more successful than trying to tell or coerce the family into doing the things that you're doing.

[Adam Schafer]

Agreed. Now, we mentioned two programs in this. If you're looking for access to those, you go to mapsfitnessproducts.com that's where we have the maps 40 plus and maps 15. You can also find us on Instagram indpump media. And you can also find me, mindpump disttefano and Adam Indpump Adam, thank you.

[Sal Destefano]

For listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.