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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2599: Eight Weird Signs That You Should Avoid Gluten & More (Listener Live Coaching)
01:49:56
In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: 8 weird signs that you should avoid gluten. (1:45) Why is fitness so EFFECTIVE for depression and anxiety? (22:07) Don’t forget to...
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- [00:01]
Aaron Manke
Are you a lover of all things dark and creepy, of graveyards and monsters, haunted houses and spooky legends? Then welcome to Lore. I'm Aaron Manke. For close to 10 years now, I've been sharing history's darkest stories with millions of listeners around the world. Tune in each week as we explore the folklore, ghost tales and local legends that delivered the chills you're looking for. Learn more and subscribe today. Like over@lorepodcast.com if you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
- [00:36]
Sal DiStefano
Mind Pump. Mind Pump.
- [00:38]
Aaron Manke
With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer.
- [00:42]
Sal DiStefano
And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we had live callers call in and we got to coach them on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 59 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fitness studies, fat loss tips, we talk about family life, current events. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you can call in, go to liveindpumpmedia.com, send us an email and we'll let you on the show. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Zebiotics. This is a pre alcohol drink. It's actually a probiotic that's been genetically engineered to break down some of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. So I drink zbiotics, then I drink and I feel way better. Go check them out. This stuff really works. Go to zbiotics.com, that's Z B I O T I C S.com mindpump2.5 use the code mindpump25. Get 15% off. This episode's also brought to you by Organifi, makers of the very popular Happy drops. These are gummies that you eat that make you feel happy. And one of the active ingredients is saffron, has been shown in in studies to reduce the symptoms of anxiety and depression. Anyway, go check them out. Go to organifi.com mindpump use the code mindpump get 20% off. We also have a sale on some workout programs this month. Maps 15 performance and the RGB bundle. 50% off both of them. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code MAY50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show.
- [02:17]
Adam Schafer
Gluten.
- [02:17]
Sal DiStefano
Should you eat it? Should you avoid it? For many people, gluten can cause some issues. There's the obvious ones, which we'll cover. But there's also eight weird signs that may mean you should probably avoid it. Let's go. Gluten's an interesting one. This one nobody talked about until about 15 years ago.
- [02:36]
Adam Schafer
And I would even make the case.
- [02:37]
Justin Andrews
People made fun of you if you brought it up.
- [02:39]
Adam Schafer
I. Yeah, exactly. I think. I think maybe only in the last five do you not get roasted. Yeah, I mean, I think 10 years ago, if you were talking about this, like, oh, people, just the biggest eye roll ever.
- [02:50]
Justin Andrews
Especially if you don't have celiac.
- [02:52]
Adam Schafer
You're what? Exactly. If you don't have. Granted, that's a. That's a one off case. Right. If you're not. If you don't have celiac, then everybody else would give you a massive eye roll. If you're like, oh, I'm gluten intolerant.
- [03:01]
Sal DiStefano
Like, oh, yeah, no, I was lucky. I was blessed to have somebody who rented space in my studio who was really ahead of the curve on this kind of stuff, and she informed me on gluten sensitivities. Now, at the time, the medical community scoffed at it, like you said, it was like a joke.
- [03:19]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [03:20]
Sal DiStefano
Unless you have celiac, there's no issue. But now I think it's widely accepted that aside from allergies and celiac, you can have sensitivities of gluten. So first off, gluten is a. Is a protein. It's a protein that's found in some grains. Wheat being the most popular, barley being another one. Rye, I think, is another one. It's a protein which, by the way, if you have any kind of an immune response, it's typically to a protein. It's typically a protein that will cause an immune response to. Now, the obvious signs of gluten intolerance, again, aside from the obvious celiac or allergy are gastro issues. I think everybody knows that now. Right. Bloating, constipation, diarrhea. But there are other signs that now are essentially confirmed that could mean that you probably should avoid gluten. One of them. I'll start with the first one, water retention. Water retention is widely reported by people who consume gluten. They're not allergic to it, they don't have celiac, but they eat it and they just feel puffy. Not gastro bloat, but rather bloat overall. This is me, by the way, when I eat gluten. This is me when I eat gluten. If I don't get gastric issues, which I will get sometimes I'll notice the following day. It's like I'm holding, like, three, four pounds of water everywhere.
- [04:35]
Adam Schafer
It's very. If the listener is trying to figure this out, it's very obvious that you are holding more than normal water. Everybody holds a little bit of, like. We get water retention when we eat, like, period. Right. So everyone holds a little bit of water. It would be unhealthy not to. But it's an abnormal amount.
- [04:55]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [04:55]
Adam Schafer
And typically you see it in people's faces.
- [04:57]
Sal DiStefano
Their eyes.
- [04:58]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Their face will be holding my. That's definitely my area. I know you're the same way too. I can tell right away when you had a good time.
- [05:04]
Sal DiStefano
I walk in, you're like, what's up with your face?
- [05:06]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Yeah. I actually think. Far more common than people realize. I think that there's a lot of people on the, like, lower end of the spectrum to where they can. They can eat it. And because they don't have all of these symptoms, they have maybe a few of them. They don't even realize that they have somewhat of an intolerance to it. I've had many clients that we would be doing something. I mean, you know what? Let's just. Let's try and eliminate it for a while and just see how you feel. And then instantly they notice a difference. Then.
- [05:37]
Sal DiStefano
So here's what's happening. Because we'll get to the rest. Here's what's happening, right? You can have an allergy, which is obvious. So you'll eat a food. Anaphylactic shock, right. And you'll know this. You figure this out as a kid, so you avoid that food as an adult. But there's other immune reactions that are not so obvious. There are different kind of antibodies that react to different kinds of proteins if you have a reaction. IgE antibodies, I believe it's IgE, maybe Doug confirmed this for me. Are the antibodies that will cause the allergy. But then there's like, IgG antibodies, IgA antibodies, and I believe there's one or two others that don't cause allergy, but they do show that you have some kind of an immune response. So intolerances are an immune response. They're just not the loud, obvious ones.
- [06:26]
Justin Andrews
Isn't. Is it like the difference is too. Isn't there one that's a delayed response versus more of a.
- [06:31]
Sal DiStefano
Yes. All the ones that are not the IgE antibodies will cause typically this kind of delayed response. So water retention is could from gluten if you have a gluten intolerance is literally an immune response. Your body's identifying this protein as not a good thing or an invader. Now, again, it's not a strong reaction, but it's a reaction nonetheless that causes some water retention. And so all the ones we're gonna go through today are really an immune reaction due to the gluten.
- [07:00]
Adam Schafer
So because it is an immune response to another indicator for some people. I didn't think you had this on your list. Did you have this on your list? No, I don't think so. We're like, if you have an autoimmune disease, it'll just get worse. You'll see it flare up.
- [07:12]
Sal DiStefano
Yes.
- [07:12]
Adam Schafer
So that was one of the biggest, I guess, blessings in disguise. This whole autoimmune battle with psoriasis that I've had is. It makes it even more obvious for me, like, for. Because I. I think the hardest part about going over the symptoms you're talking about is it could be on the spectrum. So even as you list all of these symptoms, you can have severe water retention, or you can have mild water retention and everything in between. And each one of these categories, it can be somewhere on that. And so it makes it difficult sometimes for people to go like, well, is it water retention or brain fog I'm dealing with right now, or is it like. And you question it because you're not sure, because it's not so alarming versus when you have an autoimmune disease and then you eat something that you're intolerant to, like this, it lets you know.
- [07:57]
Sal DiStefano
Generally speaking, if you have any autoimmune issue, you. You probably should start avoiding foods that tend to cause the more common foods that can cause issues. And gluten is one of them. That's a top one. So when I worked with functional medicine practitioners, if anybody had any kind of an autoimmune issue, they would always cut gluten out just to see what would happen because their immune system's already heightened. You already have a hyperactive or hyper reactive immune system, and gluten is a common protein that can cause issues. So if you already have this hyperactive system, you add that on top of it, you get more psoriasis.
- [08:31]
Justin Andrews
Now, not to go too far down a rabbit hole just to bring it up, at least, you know, besides having a reaction to the gluten protein itself, have they actually studied like and siphoned off specifically glyphosate and herbicide and pesticide symptoms in terms of, like, stuff you're Listing versus it just being from the protein.
- [08:52]
Sal DiStefano
Good point. So some people say that maybe that what people will call a gluten intolerance is really a glyphosate intolerance because they spray the hell out of wheat as a. As a. Essentially to dry it out. They don't even use it as a herbicide here for wheat. They'll just spray it on as a desiccant. Yes, they have. So some people respond to glyphosates, other people respond to gluten, some people respond to both.
- [09:15]
Justin Andrews
So it's like both. Yeah.
- [09:16]
Sal DiStefano
Yes. And by the way, gluten is. It's a protein that can thicken liquids. It. It adds to bread. The. The kind of the. The squishiness to it or the firmness to bread. That's what gluten does. And our. I believe our wheat has been bred to have higher levels of gluten in the US because it makes it just a. A thicker, more palatable type of. Of bread. So. And I believe that's true.
- [09:42]
Adam Schafer
I'm glad you brought that up too, because then. Then there's even like. And I noticed this with myself, like, there's levels to things. Like, I can. I feel like there's things I can have that have gluten in it.
- [09:52]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [09:53]
Adam Schafer
But as long as it's like a.
- [09:54]
Justin Andrews
Like sourdough for me is a little less.
- [09:56]
Adam Schafer
Yes, exactly. I could have sourdough bread. Just had sourdough bread for breakfast. Totally fine. Doesn't bother me. But pizza bread dough from round table or something like that. Oh, man, it is. I'm. I'm destroyed.
- [10:06]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [10:06]
Adam Schafer
So there's also, like, sour then. I also know, like, when I was in. Over in Europe, like, eating stuff over in France, and some of that, I could have breadsticks.
- [10:14]
Sal DiStefano
That's an interesting one. And I'm not sure what that is, but I do know. I know sourdough because it's fermented. The. The gluten is broken down somewhat, so it helps a little bit. But the Europe one, a lot of people speculate, talk about that, and I don't know. Really don't know what the heck the difference is.
- [10:27]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Because that was weird for me too, is over there. It felt like I could have pizza, I could have whatever I wanted. It didn't bother me this way.
- [10:33]
Sal DiStefano
A lot of people say that.
- [10:34]
Adam Schafer
So weird.
- [10:36]
Sal DiStefano
Another weird sign is delayed gastro issues. So you eat gluten today and you start noticing gut issues a day or two later. This one's harder to connect this one's also me. If I get gastro issues from gluten, it's almost never immediately after. It's like the day after. And I noticed I'm just either, like, something's off.
- [10:56]
Justin Andrews
That's what sucks. That's mean. With dairy, you know, if I overdo it, the dairy is delayed, but gluten is, like, immediate.
- [11:04]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, see, Doug just pulled up. European wheat tends to be lower in gluten. That might be. That might be why. Next up, skin rashes and itching. So you don't have psoriasis, you don't have skin issues. Eczema. But you just notice sometimes your skin is a little itchy. Sometimes you do get a little bit of rashiness. That's a common autoimmune reaction or immune reaction to gluten. In fact, in my experience, this is the number one reaction that aside from the gastric issues, which are obvious, when I would have clients that would talk about itchy skin or dry patches, I would cut gluten out as my number one. That was, like, always my number one line of defense for them. Next up, brain fog. This is a. This is one that people miss. Yeah, they just miss. But pay attention. If you notice after eating pasta or bread that you're just like. I just. I'm just not as sharp. Like, something doesn't feel right. That's also an immune. Could be. I should say an immune response to the gluten.
- [12:02]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, it's elusive. I mean, it's. They think that maybe they didn't get enough sleep or, like, you know, there's some other factor. But this is why it's good to tease it off.
- [12:09]
Sal DiStefano
You know what's tough about the. You know what. What's tough about all these, by the way, is if you eat gluten every day, you don't know.
- [12:15]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [12:15]
Sal DiStefano
You don't know until you go off and you go off for a week or two that you're like, whoa, I feel really different. Next up, this is an interesting one. Neuropathic symptoms, like tingling in the hands and feet or, you know, like, numbness or cold, hot, you know, kind of burning sensations from your nerves. That's actually a relatively common one. That's a result of. Of gluten.
- [12:37]
Adam Schafer
Is that. What's that? Is it an autoimmune? Reigns. Reigns.
- [12:42]
Sal DiStefano
I don't know if it's autoimmunes, but I know what you're talking about.
- [12:44]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [12:44]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. No, I'm not sure if it's autoimmunes. You can look that up. Doug, reigns are.
- [12:50]
Adam Schafer
E I N S?
- [12:51]
Sal DiStefano
I believe so, yeah. Yeah. And that's where the. You get the hands there. Like.
- [12:55]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, like almost like blood. Blood flow doesn't get all the way to your fingertips like that. They look all. All white and.
- [13:00]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, I don't know if that's a autoimmune. That's interesting. Next up, fatigue or energy crash. So sometimes people think this is just I eat carbs or I just ate something. But it's different when you eat rice versus when you eat bread. This is me as well. If I eat white rice. Not I don't feel okay. If I eat bread, for sure. Thirty, 40 minutes later, I need to take a nap. So. Yes, that's it. Raynaud's disease. That's the one. Yeah. Doesn't say that it's a sin. And autoimmune.
- [13:31]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [13:32]
Justin Andrews
No, that always used to kill me. Cuz we'd eat pancakes, you know, before, like a football game. I was always like, about halftime, I was like, yeah.
- [13:40]
Sal DiStefano
And you thought you were like.
- [13:41]
Justin Andrews
I was like, I should have loaded up more.
- [13:43]
Sal DiStefano
I know.
- [13:43]
Adam Schafer
I mean, I'm the same way too though. White rice, sweet potato, yams, quinoa fruit, all good, all amazing. But a big old like loaf of bread pizza type of deal like that. And it's like, yeah, I want to go to bed. Yeah, I want to crash right afterwards.
- [13:57]
Sal DiStefano
Depression anxiety is another one. So this one's interesting. There's actually some studies that connect immune responses or an immune system that's a little hyper reactive to depression anxiety. So there's a lot. There's a ton of agnito of people who cut gluten out and notice an improvement in depression anxiety. So if this is you and you kind of struggle with like, this is an extreme, like a low level depression anxiety, like, I don't know what, you know, what's going on. You can try it. Try cutting gluten for all of these, by the way. If you have any of these and that just, just are mysterious to you, cut gluten out completely, by the way. Cutting gluten out is not as easy as you think. No, we know it's in wheat, we know it's in certain grains. It's in a lot of sauces.
- [14:38]
Justin Andrews
Sauces is the sneaky one.
- [14:40]
Sal DiStefano
Yes. Soy sauces or barbecue sauces, Processed foods, I'd say probably 70% of them contain gluten. I screwed up on this. Years ago when I tried to remove gluten, when I had my gut issues in my early 30s when they really Kicked in hard. And I remember cutting gluten out and being like, I'm, oh, it must not be gluten, because I'm not having any improvements. And my friend goes, those chicken breasts that you. That you eat that are marinated or they have gluten in them. I'm like, it's chicken. She's like, look at the bag. I look at the bag and the freaking sauce. I was so mad, dude. I did every single day. I know. Last joint pain. So if you have kind of unexplained joint pain, this will be me, too. If I push gluten for a while, like I just recently did for past four days, I do notice I'm just stiffer now.
- [15:25]
Adam Schafer
Is this. Is this connected to the water retention, or are they independent of each other?
- [15:30]
Sal DiStefano
Independent. So I get both. So who knows if mine's from the water retention? But some people don't get. That's all they get.
- [15:37]
Adam Schafer
Oh, okay.
- [15:37]
Sal DiStefano
Is they'll have the lead gluten, and they'll start noticing more back pain or knee pain or something like that, which is a. You know, which is.
- [15:43]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. What would you guys say? I would actually say water retention and joint pain were probably the two most common ones. Yeah. Common ones for me. You said skin rash.
- [15:52]
Sal DiStefano
Skin rash.
- [15:53]
Adam Schafer
That would be up there too.
- [15:54]
Sal DiStefano
Wasn't common. But when I saw random skin, oh, it was like, bro. It was like, I'm not exaggerating 70% of the time. It would fix their skin. Their skin issues.
- [16:02]
Adam Schafer
Well, especially if it's a lot. I mean, I guess I would say I had the same experience, because if it was something that was. I mean, we. I remember with this. Seen this with Katrina. I've seen it with Max, where, you know, they don't have it. Then all of a sudden, it comes out of nowhere, and then right away, we're going. Okay, the last 24 hours, what did you. Yeah. What did you eat? And then we can normally point to something and then eliminate it. Don't have it. And then it goes.
- [16:23]
Sal DiStefano
You know what I didn't put here? That's another weird one. Snoring. Snoring. Yes. And it's. It's a central nervous system, because the. When you have an immune response, it'll affect the central nervous system, which is, by the way, why people get more depression. Anxiety from gluten sometimes if they have an intolerance, but also will affect your breathing when you're asleep. So you'll snore more. I saw this on myself. Remember a while ago, I noticed this And I looked it up. I'm like, what's going on here? And I'm like, oh my God.
- [16:49]
Justin Andrews
It's contributes to that too.
- [16:51]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, dude. Like it messing. It causes, you know, so sleep apnea, believe it or not, sometimes doctors, forward thinking doctors. Unless the person's really overweight. Right. If they have sleep apnea, they'll say, hey, let's avoid gluten and see what happens. And there's a percentage of people where that's the fix. It's just not having. Who would have thought, right?
- [17:10]
Adam Schafer
It's, it's rare. In fact, I'm trying to recall a scenario where I had a client where I had them do an elimination or like a Whole30 protocol and they didn't see significant improvements. Can you think of anybody who you have helped that way? And they did it. And they're like, oh yeah, I know better, no worse.
- [17:29]
Sal DiStefano
So, so I'll say this. I know we're going to get some flack from the, the science, you know, you know, the science crowd who only goes with the current data shows or whatever. We have a lot of experience and I'm 100.
- [17:39]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [17:40]
Sal DiStefano
I would say it was, it was a minority of people who didn't notice a benefit from just cutting out. It was a majority. Now here's what they're gonna say. Well, gluten's found in processed foods.
- [17:51]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [17:51]
Sal DiStefano
So maybe they're eating less processed food. I'm talking about clients. I'm talking about clients that were healthy who ate gluten. So they're like, oh, I eat whole grain bread.
- [18:00]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [18:00]
Sal DiStefano
Or I have the pasta. And their diets were relatively healthy.
- [18:03]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [18:04]
Sal DiStefano
And we'd switch to gluten free.
- [18:06]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [18:06]
Sal DiStefano
And they would almost all notice some improvement.
- [18:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [18:10]
Sal DiStefano
And how they.
- [18:10]
Justin Andrews
Almost everybody.
- [18:11]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [18:11]
Justin Andrews
It made a significant difference.
- [18:13]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. Big time.
- [18:13]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. I can't, I can't recall where. I haven't I. Everybody that we've made the attempt to do that. I think it just. Even people who didn't really think they had a major issue just would report.
- [18:23]
Sal DiStefano
Let's just try this out.
- [18:24]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. They would report back. Oh, man, I do feel so much better.
- [18:27]
Sal DiStefano
I remember when Justin identified it was your, your acid reflux.
- [18:32]
Justin Andrews
Oh, yeah.
- [18:33]
Sal DiStefano
How long ago was it that you. That you found that we were together?
- [18:36]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. It was maybe like three years ago. Yeah.
- [18:39]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [18:39]
Justin Andrews
And it was like immediate. Once I removed it, it was. I didn't have any like quick acting response like that.
- [18:46]
Sal DiStefano
Now what's crazy. And this is great to highlight because you're trainer, you're a fitness guy. I consider you pretty self aware person. It took you that long. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Now imagine the average person who doesn't pay attention to their health who just like, oh, this is just what I got. This is what I'm trying to say. For people watching you might be like, I'm fine. Cut it out for a week or two and see if you notice a difference. Yeah.
- [19:09]
Justin Andrews
For some reason I thought it was acid. Like I thought it was.
- [19:12]
Sal DiStefano
You just make too much or too little.
- [19:14]
Justin Andrews
Well, just like, like spicy acidic type foods. Like. Because I thought that because I again, you get a lot of carbs with those typically. And so it was really is a gluten.
- [19:25]
Adam Schafer
I mean, I think we. The reason why something like that takes so long sometimes for people is I think we underestimate just how resilient the human body is.
- [19:33]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [19:33]
Adam Schafer
It has unbelievable ability to adapt and figure it out. And so because you're not crippling in pain or in the hospital yet, or hunched over vomiting, like, okay, so you don't have that. These are subtle enough that the body adapts. All right, this is just. We're gonna have to make you.
- [19:49]
Justin Andrews
I'm just gonna deal with it. Yeah, I feel like this. And then it would kind of resolve itself eventually throughout the day.
- [19:55]
Adam Schafer
I can't stress enough to the audience that's never tried to do this, but you know, give yourself 30 days of eating a whole food D. Purely nothing but that for 30 days. Or do some sort of an elimination diet and tell me you don't feel significantly better.
- [20:12]
Sal DiStefano
Y.
- [20:12]
Adam Schafer
And then, and then once you've done that, then all the next step is to just gradually introduce some of the things that maybe you. You. You loved. Because not a lot of times, this is why this is so important is because if you can help shift. It's so hard to get a client to let go of wine if they, you know, you know, the client. Oh, I'm going to do. I'm.
- [20:31]
Sal DiStefano
We have attachments to things.
- [20:32]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, we. We do. We get these attachments to foods and. And we're in denial if it could be making us feel that way. And so part of eliminating it and then reintroducing it and then realizing what it's actually doing helps shift the relationship.
- [20:45]
Sal DiStefano
Yes.
- [20:46]
Adam Schafer
So it takes something that you might have said, like, I would never go without.
- [20:49]
Sal DiStefano
Or like now you notice this negative effect.
- [20:51]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Then you see that like your point. Because otherwise you operate from this place of denial. Even if like.
- [20:57]
Sal DiStefano
Or just ignorance. You just don't know.
- [20:58]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah. Whether. And part of me, I think we choose to be that way because you're like, I don't want to accept that that's possibly what it is.
- [21:04]
Justin Andrews
And so I want to lift the rug here.
- [21:06]
Adam Schafer
Ye. And so, you know, I just urge you to, to do that for yourself, for your health and then reintroduce those foods and the, and you know, many times it's that, that food that you don't want to let go of. And once you connect the. Oh, wow. Every time I do this, like it.
- [21:23]
Sal DiStefano
Releases its grip on you.
- [21:24]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, it does. Like, I mean, I've openly talked about my relationship with ice cream that I absolutely love. Still will never not. But because I've so strongly connected what it does to me, it does make that easier not to. Doesn't mean it's still not hard. Doesn't mean I still don't do it to myself. But I'm very aware that it. How it makes me feel. And so it's like, yeah, I just, I gotta be judicious about how often that gets. Makes its way to my life.
- [21:45]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. The other part is that we have such good over the counter symptom controlling medicines. So, so here's a hint, here's a clue that you need to change something. If you take on a weekly and especially daily basis some kind of an over the counter symptom controlling medication, whether it's an NSAID like ibuprofen or, you know, naproxen or acetaminophen, like Tylenol, because you have these headaches every week. Or if you take heartburn medication like Tums.
- [22:16]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [22:16]
Sal DiStefano
Or, or something even stronger like Pepcid, like, like those are. Or you have to use a, you know, you know, a cortico, you know, steroid cream or, or rash stuff. Like if this is like a regular weekly basis or daily especially, there's probably something causing it, you know, and so take a look. Take a look is what I'll say. Anyway, I had a great conversation this weekend with very intelligent woman. She's. You guys know Chuck. He's a pastor at my church. His wife is a psychiatrist. And we talked, we were talking about depression and anxiety because that's what she treats. Right. When she works with people.
- [22:54]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [22:55]
Sal DiStefano
And I love, I absolutely love having access to an expert on a subject like that. I really miss training doctors. I used to love talking to doctors about stuff. So we got this really good discussion and then we talked about like the effects of fitness and exercise on depression. Anxiety.
- [23:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [23:12]
Sal DiStefano
And I asked Her, I said, is that, like, do you guys recommend that? She's like, oh, yeah. Now we. It is like one of the first things we do. She says, however, sometimes someone so bad that they can't even walk out the door or they can't get off the couch, which I understand that years ago I trained a psychology professor who explained that to me. She says, because I had this big debate, and I'm like, you know, no, they need to exercise. That's what they need to do. She goes, sometimes they give them medications so they can exercise. I was like, oh, okay. But the discussion was great. One of the things that we were talking about, why is fitness so effective for depression? Anxiety, like you compared to fitness to. And diet. So just being healthy to every other medication, every other depression treatment, it kills them. It's the best, the most effective. And you can stack it so you can do the other stuff plus add it to it. But why is it so effective? And I think that there's two. Two ways that it works. One is, you know, your brain is a physical part of your body, right? And a healthy brain operates better than an unhealthy brain. So think of hardware. You got a computer in your skull. And if it operates well, if itif it utilizes glycogen, well, and ketones, well, it doesn't have mitochondrial dysfunction. It's got good blood flow, it's healthy, you're gonna have a healthy brain. You're gonna feel healthier, you're gonna be less depressed, less anxiety, you know, less anxiety, less inflammation. If it's unhealthy, you're going to feel crappy, okay, from your brain. So there's that, but then there's also the other aspect of fitness, which is I have to get up, I have to do something hard, I have to stay disciplined.
- [24:51]
Adam Schafer
Psychological.
- [24:51]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, my God, I accomplished something. I'm gonna do it again. Oh, my God, I accomplished something. That part and that part. We were talking a lot.
- [24:57]
Adam Schafer
Well, that's why I think that that's why it does so well, because it's not just addressing the physiological stuff, it's also addressing the psychological.
- [25:04]
Sal DiStefano
Yes.
- [25:05]
Adam Schafer
And both, both are so powerful when dealing with anxiety and depression. You obviously, there's some sort of chemical issue or imbalance potentially. And so taking something that potentially helps that or doing something that potentially helps that, but then also helps the psychological part of, like you're saying going after something or doing something that is hard, overcoming it, and then the confidence that you build from that. Like, that's the reason why we went Compounding.
- [25:30]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. So we went in that direction because we started talking about GLP1s and I said to her, I said, you know, at some point I think we're going to have this combination or cocktail of peptides or drugs or whatever that's going to give you all of the effects of exercise, physical effects. Like you'll take them and you'll have muscle, you'll be lean. Boom. I said, but it's not going to be the same. And that's when the conversation really got exciting because she said, yeah, she goes. The way that the brain uses and utilizes dopamine is different when it's cheap dopamine versus when it's hard dopamine. So like if I, if I take a drug or something that squirts out dopamine, there's an adaptive response where receptors get down regulated and I have to, I need more of it to get that same effect. That's where you get addiction versus where I have to like do something hard to get the dopamine.
- [26:20]
Justin Andrews
Right.
- [26:20]
Sal DiStefano
That doesn't happen.
- [26:21]
Justin Andrews
So it's not endogenous.
- [26:24]
Sal DiStefano
Sorry, exogenous. Exogenous, yes. Or just like you're forcing it versus you're missing it.
- [26:28]
Adam Schafer
Isn't there also a longer lasting effect that comes from that one too? Right. So it's like the other one is like the artificial, it's an instant hit, then it comes and goes. And then the one where you actually had to accomplish something, not only does it take longer, it's longer lasting. It doesn't down regulate things. And then in addition to that it also has a prolonged.
- [26:47]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, so if you were to look at a graph of like comparing like cocaine, which slams dopamine in your brain versus exercise, initially cocaine is going to produce a stronger dopamine effect, but over time it goes down and you start getting these negative effects. Whereas exercise starts out here. But the longer you do it, the higher it goes and the better it is. So it's this growing positive effect on anxiety and depression. Whereas drugs have a growing downward slope negative effect on the brain. So I don't think we'll ever solve, or should I say mimic the effects perfectly of extras because people have to do something hard.
- [27:24]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [27:24]
Sal DiStefano
You know, so I don't know, maybe make them go lift weights, try to.
- [27:27]
Justin Andrews
Figure out ways to slow down that negative slope but at the same time create other symptoms.
- [27:34]
Sal DiStefano
Oh yeah.
- [27:35]
Justin Andrews
With the other drugs that they're combating.
- [27:36]
Sal DiStefano
You have to perceive the same game.
- [27:38]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [27:38]
Adam Schafer
I mean as, as a society, I mean, don't you guys Predict that this we're going to get even worse.
- [27:43]
Sal DiStefano
Oh yeah.
- [27:44]
Adam Schafer
Anxiety and depression. Because there's, there's a, there's a subset of people right now that have found exercise and it's profoundly changed their life. For the good that that would also, if given the option, just take a pill and just dismiss that. Sure. There's obviously a percentage that value the journey, that understand that part of it and love it.
- [28:05]
Sal DiStefano
Everybody who's done it for a long time.
- [28:06]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Wouldn't matter to them. They're. They've, they, they're choosing to, they're going to choose the hard path no matter what. But there's definitely a percentage of people that exercise is helping and is good for them. But then they will choose the opposite path because of maybe what the desired outcome of it is.
- [28:22]
Sal DiStefano
For the way we' to do is we're trying to produce the, the positive effects of exercise without doing the hard work that it requires. But what we don't realize is the hard work produces many of the positive effects it is. So you can't. It's impossible to produce the effects of hard work without hard work. That would be the challenge.
- [28:46]
Adam Schafer
The Everest analogy with the helicopter ride to it is, is the great analogy that you've given before, which is that you could take a helicopter ride to the top of Mount Everest and look at the view and for a moment go, man, this is so awesome. But compare that to the person who spent however long it takes to get to the top of that thing and how few people do climbing that thing and then getting to the top that the experience they both have. Totally different, so different, so different and so much so much like the person who did that not only will have this way more profound feeling, but it'll be prolonged. They'll be able to draw on it growth months down the road. They'll recall it and be able to talk about. Yeah. They'll have all these things where the other person who helicopter go like, oh, this is cool. And then over these have the pictures.
- [29:29]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, yeah. Dude.
- [29:30]
Justin Andrews
Dude. Would you say you, you're more philosophical when you drink because I've hung out with you and you've had a few. And then like these. It just reminds me of that, like that conversation you have because it ends up going to, you know, what do you guys think about this existential crisis?
- [29:48]
Sal DiStefano
I do. You know what it is? It's a, it's a alcohol, it lowers inhibitions. And I think sometimes. Well, I know this about myself. I don't go super deep because I mean Like, I start going off and then like, I want people to go deep with me. And some people like, shut up.
- [30:03]
Justin Andrews
I like, I like doing that though, like sometimes. Yeah.
- [30:05]
Adam Schafer
Those are some of the best conversations.
- [30:07]
Sal DiStefano
You guys are like, that's why we all come out.
- [30:08]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. I mean, I saw you, I saw you stock it up on zbiotics before you left. Did you guys do a lot of drinking this weekend?
- [30:13]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. So I went. Went up to Truckee with some families that we, we met at church. So Chuck and his wife Catherine. His wife Catherine was a psychiatrist.
- [30:22]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [30:23]
Sal DiStefano
And then we went with Chris and Jessica. They've got, you know, three little girls and one on the way. First off, I gotta say, like, like such good people. Like really godly, just wonderful good people. Everybody's so. It's just so great, such a great time. The dads are so amazing. I'm around these really, really great fathers. This, my buddy Chris, he's like this giant. He's like this tall dude, you know, blue collar worker. I was telling my wife, I said, because he's like the super humble, very humble, chill, but also confident. You know when you run into a guy.
- [30:56]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [30:56]
Sal DiStefano
Who's humble but confident.
- [30:57]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [30:57]
Sal DiStefano
And she's like, well, she's like, I know what you mean, but what do you mean by that? I said, well, first off, like, he's a big dude. He's probably six, five. I said, when you look at his hands, I can always tell when a dude is really strong by his hands.
- [31:07]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [31:08]
Sal DiStefano
I'm like, he could, he could rip someone's hand, like arm out of their sockets.
- [31:11]
Justin Andrews
Slap you unconscious.
- [31:12]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, but he's like, he's the cool. But he's also very confident.
- [31:15]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [31:15]
Sal DiStefano
Really great people, great kid. And anyway, so we all, we all had a good time. I brought Zbotics up there because we'll, you know, that's the thing I like about Christians. They'll drink at least. So we got, we got to have some drinks and stuff. Yeah, but, but everybody likes the Z. But they remember for the Christmas party.
- [31:30]
Adam Schafer
Oh, okay.
- [31:31]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. They're like, oh, I remember this.
- [31:32]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, dude.
- [31:34]
Sal DiStefano
So I had Zbotics, which is a.
- [31:35]
Adam Schafer
Safe now, what were you.
- [31:36]
Sal DiStefano
A lifesaver.
- [31:37]
Adam Schafer
What were you guys drinking up there? I know we've stocked up the alcohol up there. Did you have any of that Japanese whiskey?
- [31:41]
Sal DiStefano
No, no, we had beer and then we had margarita. M. No, no, that great daiquiri.
- [31:49]
Adam Schafer
That great bar up there and you're up there drinking a freaking purple margarita.
- [31:54]
Sal DiStefano
Well, we're not going Hard. You know what I mean? We're not like. But it's like, it's during the day, right? So, you know, we'll have a couple drinks with lunch and then again a little later, and then again, let's. I'd probably averaging like five drinks a day, which for me, that's a lot. For me is a lot.
- [32:07]
Adam Schafer
You were right. That's a lot that would make. We don't drink that much.
- [32:09]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. And the Zbotics, because I forgot one day to take, and I woke up the next day, dude, and I was like, ibuprofen. Yeah, dude. I was like, oh, I feel terrible. Then I had the Zbotics afterwards, and it was. It was good once, a couple days. I had it twice in a day because I'm like this.
- [32:24]
Adam Schafer
Are you guys. The whole time. Did you go up there the whole week?
- [32:26]
Sal DiStefano
We were there the whole time.
- [32:26]
Adam Schafer
Oh, nice.
- [32:27]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. Yeah.
- [32:28]
Adam Schafer
So was it beautiful up there?
- [32:29]
Sal DiStefano
It was gorgeous, dude. The weather was nice. It's crazy at altitude if you're the sun.
- [32:36]
Adam Schafer
And I think, oh, it'll tan you and cook you way quicker.
- [32:38]
Sal DiStefano
It's because there's less atmosphere, right? Am I tripping?
- [32:40]
Adam Schafer
No, no, that's right. Oh, yeah, that's true. Oh, yeah, you'll get.
- [32:42]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, I get crispy, dude, if you. I don't watch myself.
- [32:44]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, dude, I'm like. It wasn't hot, like, 70 degrees, but it's like I was getting like a farmer stand.
- [32:48]
Adam Schafer
Oh, it was perfect. We were in San Diego and it was. It was nice. It was perfect, too, down there. Great. It was. It was great weather.
- [32:54]
Sal DiStefano
You went to legoland?
- [32:54]
Adam Schafer
Yes, we did.
- [32:55]
Sal DiStefano
Was it just you, Katrina and your son?
- [32:57]
Adam Schafer
My best friend and his kids.
- [32:58]
Sal DiStefano
Okay.
- [32:59]
Adam Schafer
Epic fail.
- [33:00]
Sal DiStefano
Why?
- [33:01]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, dude, I just. You know what? As a. As a parent, I'm mad at myself. I mean, Katrina and I had a big, long talk about this because, you know, my. My godson is like your son. Very, like, aggressive, risky, do all the things like that. He's also a year and a half older than my son, and that's my best friend.
- [33:21]
Sal DiStefano
That's a big difference.
- [33:22]
Adam Schafer
It is.
- [33:23]
Sal DiStefano
At that age.
- [33:23]
Adam Schafer
Well, expect a year and a half. Plus, you're that type of kid, and my kid's the opposite. So why I was mad at me. I was mad at Katrina and I for doing this is. We know our son so well, yet we. We planned Legoland because we wanted to go to Legoland because my best friend's going. He's going to bring his. We all want to be together. Of Course, my son should love Lego. Everyone told me, oh, he's going to love Legoland. What? I didn't know. And I found this out later from Katrina. I wish she would have told me. Although, who knows? Maybe I wouldn't have changed anything. That he was talking to his other little friend who had told him that he got scared.
- [34:00]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, no. So he was already going into it.
- [34:02]
Adam Schafer
So my son had, like, multiple times told my. Told Katrina, like, hey, Mommy, I don't want to do all the rides there. I know that. What's his friend's name? Julian was scared. I don't want to. I don't want to do the. The one ride. And she's like, you don't even know what's there yet. Let's wait till you get. So she kept kind of talking him through it. And I didn't know anything about this, but she told me that he, like, multiple times before we were even going on the trip, saying this.
- [34:27]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [34:27]
Adam Schafer
And again, I know my son, like, at that point, it's like, it doesn't even have to be there. It's there. It would be. And he was that way.
- [34:35]
Sal DiStefano
It has to be his idea.
- [34:36]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [34:36]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. You can't push him.
- [34:37]
Adam Schafer
Yes. And so, I mean, he was just resistant to the most basic things that he should have had no fear around.
- [34:45]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, man.
- [34:46]
Adam Schafer
And it was just, you know, and then I have the kid. And then you were trying to get him to force him to do it. And it's like, oh, it was really, really frustrating. But I was.
- [34:55]
Sal DiStefano
So did you guys just spend a lot of time in the places, like, making Legos?
- [34:58]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [34:58]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [34:59]
Adam Schafer
Yes. Yeah. And that was a part. So we had two days of Legoland. Third day was the zoo. And I mean that. I was done by the first day. I was like, I'm not paying for a day of Legoland to just watch my son play Legos and then buy all the. That's there, you know, I'm saying, spend a thousand dollars on all the stuff. You know, like, that's best. Just because he doesn't want to do any of the rides. And so I was really, really frustrated with that. But I also, again, like, I blame it on me. I blame Katrina and I. For him, for him not being. I said, like, he's. He. Our son. Not only is he younger than him, but he's also. My. My son will be into the things that most kids are into when they're five, when he's seven.
- [35:40]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [35:40]
Adam Schafer
Because he's already like that with almost everything else that. And then I have to wait until he's telling me, daddy, I want to go do this, and then we go do it. Then we'll have a total different experience. So, yeah, Legoland was an absolute flop for me, you know? And it was. It was.
- [35:56]
Sal DiStefano
Did he now, did he know it, or was your son thinking like, oh, I'm having fun because I'm playing Legos?
- [36:00]
Adam Schafer
No. No. I mean, he could even feel. He could feel my energy. He could tell I was frustrated, too. I really had to, like, reign myself. And both Katrina and I. Her and I. Her and I. That if there's something that we even. She even says. She's like, I need you to be nicer to him. Because I'm so mad at him right now. I was like. I'm like, no, I'm pissed at him right now, too. I'm like, I'm so frustrated that, I mean, he wouldn't even do a slide, bro.
- [36:20]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:21]
Adam Schafer
Like, he's already decided. Yeah, exactly. Once he. And that's the part that's so frustrating. It's like, okay, I get it. I'm not going to make you do roller. I would never force him to do a roller coaster. But, like, some of these things are things that you've already done, and now you're just not. You're not having it.
- [36:33]
Sal DiStefano
You know, Aurelius is not. He's like that now with a lot of rides and stuff. So he's not, like, wanting to go on rides and stuff like that. Yeah. So we'll see how my daughter is. But he's. He can be very timid. And so the way Jessica gets him to do things, she's really good at, she'll say. She'll just be like, okay, you don't have to.
- [36:51]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [36:51]
Sal DiStefano
And then what I've done in the past, which has helped. I'm trying to think what this helped with. So this helped him with going to bed. So I'll tell him a story about a character. It's either a dinosaur or some other whatever.
- [37:02]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [37:03]
Sal DiStefano
When he was scared. Yeah. And how it was okay. But then his friend said, hey, you could try being brave. And he's like, but I'm still scared. He goes, well, that's the only time. And I'll tell him stories like that.
- [37:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [37:13]
Sal DiStefano
And it's helped a couple times.
- [37:14]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [37:15]
Sal DiStefano
But. But you can't. If you push him, you know, it's like you're just going to end up, like, it's going to get worse, and then you make the kid feel terrible.
- [37:22]
Justin Andrews
I mean, I made that mistake with Everett, it was. It was pretty bad. It was like, because he's. He's very courageous, but then when he doesn't want to do something, he's an immovable object.
- [37:32]
Sal DiStefano
Yes.
- [37:33]
Justin Andrews
And so I got him to go on the Big Dipper. And then after we're done, like, me and Ethan went on this ride adjacent to it, and it goes upside down, and it kind of does all that. And I'm like, it's. It's fine. Like, you're strapped in, like, every, Like. And I'm trying to convince him. He's. I'm just not doing it. I had no freaking way.
- [37:52]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [37:53]
Justin Andrews
I'm like, you're doing it. You know, he's just like, I don't.
- [37:59]
Sal DiStefano
Want to do that.
- [38:00]
Justin Andrews
He says, crying.
- [38:00]
Sal DiStefano
I'm like, fine.
- [38:02]
Justin Andrews
You go wait at the end. And, you know, I kind of lost my.
- [38:07]
Sal DiStefano
And then I'm on there. Great dad moments, dude.
- [38:09]
Adam Schafer
I know.
- [38:10]
Sal DiStefano
Don't.
- [38:10]
Adam Schafer
Don't feel bad. I'm pretty sure I traumatized him when I was there. I'm pretty sure I, I. There was a point where I apologize.
- [38:15]
Justin Andrews
Him right after that, and he was like, you know, it just, it was. It created that sort of dad. I'd like, I know what I'm. I know what I want to do, and I know what I don't want to do.
- [38:23]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [38:24]
Justin Andrews
I'm like, okay, I respect that.
- [38:25]
Adam Schafer
But it was like I. I was.
- [38:26]
Sal DiStefano
Like, you know, listen, there's a. There's a positive here. There's a good thing to look at here, because first off, it is dad's role to encourage our children. The data shows. Okay. But I believe this as well. It is father's role to challenge our children to go. To go outside of what they can. That's what we're supposed to do. That's why we throw them in the air. That's why we do all that stuff. Right. Mom is safe. Dad's a little bit.
- [38:48]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [38:49]
Sal DiStefano
So that's on one side. Here's the other side that I think is positive, you guys and I. Okay. Which they got from us. I'm going to break this to you guys. But they take after us. This is not a bad thing, that they're not afraid to stand up for what they want to do. And you know what? You don't want to break that.
- [39:04]
Justin Andrews
Oh, I love it.
- [39:05]
Sal DiStefano
You don't want to crush. Imagine if you crush that, then, you know this kid that goes along with everybody.
- [39:08]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. I was trying to move him in that direction, you know, way better.
- [39:12]
Sal DiStefano
I was that kid. And you guys were, too. I know you. I've heard you.
- [39:14]
Adam Schafer
No, I told my. I told Katrina that. Well, I. One of the. One of the earliest traits I can remember of myself was when I didn't want to do something, I was not going to do it. And it was. And you would think the. My friends and peers would be like, oh, you're scared. It's that. But then I'll go do something that is way riskier, way more dangerous, because I wanted to do it. It was on my terms now.
- [39:33]
Sal DiStefano
And now. How did this. How. Why was this positive? Well, I. I know because we've talked off air on these stories. You had friends who wanted to try certain drugs or they wanted to go break a window or go steal a car.
- [39:44]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [39:45]
Sal DiStefano
Those are all things that happened to me. And because I was willing to say no, I didn't fall into the peer pressure.
- [39:49]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [39:50]
Sal DiStefano
You know, so. And you don't want to crush that.
- [39:52]
Adam Schafer
No, you're right. No, you're 100% right. I mean, that's why my way of starting the conversation was like, you know, as a parent, I, I. I failed this one. Yeah. I shouldn't even have taken him. I shouldn't even taken him there, you know, And I definitely had just in a moment where I probably traumatized him, too. We first started because I was already like.
- [40:10]
Justin Andrews
So I'm gonna be honest.
- [40:11]
Adam Schafer
I was already kind of annoyed, like, oh, it's gonna be like that, right? The first ride that we got on, like, he. We got on this little. If you guys have been to Legoland, there's this cool little, like, submarine thing that goes underwater, and you see, like, all the fish and stuff. And he tried to be like. It was so scary. And I, like, carried him on. He, like, buried his head in my chest the whole time, and he was just, like, crying. I'm like, max, the thing's, like, barely moving. There's, like, little infants in there with us. And so I'm like, I'm already kind of, like, annoyed. And then I'm like, okay, it's gonna be a day like that. And so there's, like, a regular slide. Just a regular slide. You put these little beanbag thing on, and I'm like, let's go up there. Let's go do that. And I'm walking up there, and I'm holding this hand, and he's like, daddy, this is high. I'm like, no, it's not. It's no higher than any other slide you've ever been on. It's fine. Oh, it's high. You're fine. And so we get up there and I'm like, don't worry. I'm like, I'm gonna hold your hand. I'll hold your hand. You go inside and it's like, it was like a four person slide or whatever. And you know, he's, you could tell he's not wanting to do it, but I'm like, he's, he's, he's gonna do it with me. And he gets in, he gets on his little beanbag on wine, whereby I go. And the guy goes, oh, you can't hold hands, sir. Can't hold hands.
- [41:09]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, just throws it off.
- [41:10]
Adam Schafer
And then, and then Max looks, his eyes get this big and he's like, I don't want to do any guard. And I grabbed his leg and just took him down the slide with me. And so, and then it was like, then he were crying.
- [41:22]
Sal DiStefano
You know what, I gotta say something. You know, shame on us, because my son and your son, they jive really well. Yeah. And I bet if we went to a place like that. Yeah, I bet they would feel, I bet they would encourage each other.
- [41:36]
Adam Schafer
Well, I really do. That's what, that's what the girls need to go do that. That's what the wives thought with Hunter and him because they're the best. And Bunny, who is. She's only two, three, two and a half.
- [41:46]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [41:46]
Adam Schafer
But so she's doing all the stuff.
- [41:48]
Sal DiStefano
It's so different. Erased, actually. Very similar in that way. So.
- [41:52]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, so I, we, they hope for all that. I mean, again, I, I just know my son so well that if I just wait till he wants to do it, we'd be fine. And I can't force. Because I want that right now because it benefits my life and my wife's because we have friends that have kids that are ready there. It's just like, hey, our kids probably. And same thing with, like this, it's the same thing with the sports thing. Like, yeah, he's not picking a ball up right now. It's not like the end of the world or like he's not going to ever play. It's. He's not into it right now and maybe he'll be into it when he's nine. And so I can't force him to play and do those things if I don't want to. Just like, I can't force him to want to ride roller coasters at Legoland. And so it's just, it is what it is.
- [42:29]
Sal DiStefano
You just, you just reminded Me of a study. Because I'm thinking about all this right now, and I'm like, you're reminding me of the times I've done stuff like that. There was a crazy study that my wife showed me, and now it's a study on religion. But I thought it was a fascinating one nonetheless, that the parents whose children are most likely so. Parents who go to church. What kind of parents are the ones that their children are most likely to follow in their footsteps and also go to church and also get a good experience. You know what the one characteristic was? They had parents that apologized to them.
- [43:00]
Adam Schafer
Oh, yeah. Oh, I can see.
- [43:01]
Sal DiStefano
I can imagine if they felt grace from mom and dad.
- [43:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [43:04]
Sal DiStefano
So it's like they all said, oh, yeah, my dad would. He messed him up, or my mom would come and say sorry to me or whatever. And I think that makes so much sense. Right. Because if you try to. If you try to be Christian, but you don't understand the grace part about it. Oh, you just feel judged. You're not going to want to deal with it.
- [43:20]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [43:20]
Sal DiStefano
But if you were raised with parents who were always okay.
- [43:22]
Adam Schafer
I mean, that was even how we ended it. Like, Katrina and I sat him down together and said, hey, you know, mommy and daddy are sorry we made you. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, we totally apologize to him and say, you know, we're sorry we. We had you come here. You. You obviously didn't really want to come here. This is not what you want to do. And we should have asked you. And even Ghost, he goes, I try to tell you, Mommy. And I went, oh, oh, look at everybody. That's your bad right there. I mean, if you would have told me. If you would have told me, we.
- [43:52]
Justin Andrews
Would have came in.
- [43:54]
Sal DiStefano
The moment you look at your life, he trying to tell you. Yeah, totally, dude.
- [43:58]
Adam Schafer
Wow.
- [43:58]
Sal DiStefano
I didn't know that.
- [43:59]
Adam Schafer
I mean, it's so the part two. Like, it also helps to, like, you know.
- [44:03]
Sal DiStefano
You know what you just did, by the way, look, you just changed that whole memory for him.
- [44:06]
Adam Schafer
Sure.
- [44:07]
Sal DiStefano
Because now when he thinks back, he's not gonna think about, oh, my dad was disappointed.
- [44:11]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. I made sure. I. The reason why I did is because I could. I know he knows me so well that he doesn't get these. This. I don't get frustrated with him. I don't get. I know he could feel my disappointment multiple times. I saw him look at my eyes, and I definitely gave him that look like, daddy is not happy right now. But that's why, at the end of the day, I was like, you know, daddy's sorry I shouldn't even made you.
- [44:30]
Sal DiStefano
Do this for you, man.
- [44:31]
Adam Schafer
And then it made. You know, then I realized too. I started telling Katrina. I was like, we can't have our cake and eat it too. We can't have this son that is so amazing and all these other things and quiet and sensitive and all this. And then he's also this daredevil. It's like you kind of get one or the other and we are. What I'm. What I'm glad about is that what he is not is this shy, introverted, antisocial kid.
- [44:54]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [44:54]
Adam Schafer
Like we were on the plane, it was so cool. We got stuck on the tar.
- [44:57]
Sal DiStefano
He's a friendly.
- [44:58]
Adam Schafer
After we. Oh dude. He had the whole plane.
- [45:00]
Sal DiStefano
Dude.
- [45:00]
Adam Schafer
It was so cool.
- [45:01]
Sal DiStefano
Was it really?
- [45:02]
Adam Schafer
It was so cool to watch. We were up, we're getting to get our stuff and we. They'd already. Everyone already stood up to get their stuff. So you know when everyone's like crowded wanting to get off the plane and they held us back and so we're standing for like 20 minutes and he ends up just start. He starts introducing himself to everybody and telling him, teaching them all about storms and asking them where they're from and what kind of storms are in their city. And he had everybody in the plane, the whole plane was listening to him converse with each person. He talked to this lady for like.
- [45:29]
Sal DiStefano
The best trait between you and your wife. Have that trait, man.
- [45:32]
Adam Schafer
It was just great. And her and I didn't say it word. We just. We just. Her and I just looking at each other, kind of laughing and smiling and watching him and like everybody on the plane talking to him and him just having a full on conversation with String. So I love that even though he's timid about certain things, he's not timid in life. Like he's not afraid to walk up to a stranger, talk to them, look them in the eye. Like people like he's got that quality. Because I think it would really bother me if he had this kind of quiet, shy personality. And then he was also introverted, antisocial, had no friends, didn't then that would really.
- [46:03]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, that's more. That's more like. Like a red. Like Alar.
- [46:05]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. That would. That would start to worry me more. It's just like no, my son just don't like do like that.
- [46:09]
Justin Andrews
That's all it is.
- [46:10]
Adam Schafer
You know, say like everything else. He's cool. So I just got to remember that.
- [46:13]
Sal DiStefano
So earlier we were talking about depression, anxiety. A study came out that or. Or should I say graph. I saw a graph that was listing natural compounds for depression, anxiety and their effect based on studies. At the top of the list was saffron, which is one of the ingredients of the happy drops.
- [46:31]
Adam Schafer
Oh yeah.
- [46:31]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. So it's getting a lot more, you know, a lot more publicity now on it being. Because typically when I say natural antidepressant, you'll think like St. John's Wort or Sam E. Which they both have studies that support them. Saffron is now leading the list of like natural ways to leave it to.
- [46:50]
Adam Schafer
Drew and Organifi to be on.
- [46:52]
Sal DiStefano
On top of it.
- [46:52]
Adam Schafer
Always.
- [46:53]
Sal DiStefano
Like before everybody else starts talking about it.
- [46:55]
Adam Schafer
He was that way with Sheilajit. He was that way with happy drops. I, you know, I gotta ask him if that. If he's got somebody on his team or is he just. I think he's a big.
- [47:02]
Sal DiStefano
He's really dialed in, dude.
- [47:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [47:04]
Sal DiStefano
When I talk to him about supplement. It's rare that I talk to someone about supplements who's is like weird about them as I am.
- [47:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [47:10]
Sal DiStefano
But I'll talk with him and he's like totally on.
- [47:12]
Adam Schafer
Which is also all the exotic, unique for a founder CEO. Typically you have like, you're the business guy and then you hired a guy.
- [47:18]
Sal DiStefano
The guy that does that.
- [47:19]
Adam Schafer
He's the guy who like is into all that stuff. So shout out to them for always being on top of stuff. I love those things.
- [47:24]
Sal DiStefano
I know. Isn't that cool? Yeah, I got. Okay, I got to bring this up because I saw one of the most impressive things I've ever seen a 45 year old man do in my entire life. I gotta talk about Justin's bro.
- [47:37]
Adam Schafer
Dude, I cannot believe it, bro. What the f. I cannot believe he did it.
- [47:41]
Sal DiStefano
Like, I, I've never. I. That's like. That's got to be one of the strongest overhead press.
- [47:46]
Adam Schafer
I thought it was the stupidest thing you could ever do, by the way. Now I can say that I felt that energy from you, bro, when you decided I. You were gonna go. I mean literally, he just threw a.
- [47:54]
Sal DiStefano
Big ass number out like. And he's never done it before.
- [47:57]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, I thought, I mean, that's just kind of how I roll. But yeah, it's.
- [48:02]
Adam Schafer
It's impressive. I think at any age, bro.
- [48:05]
Sal DiStefano
That's an impressive bench press. Yeah, that's an impressive squat.
- [48:08]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [48:09]
Sal DiStefano
And you overhead press that315.
- [48:12]
Justin Andrews
I was pretty pumped.
- [48:13]
Adam Schafer
Oh, I bet you.
- [48:13]
Sal DiStefano
So how did you go into it? And then like, what was your like, did you Psych yourself up. Were you like.
- [48:19]
Adam Schafer
I mean, I want to hear. I also want to hear, too. What. Because I know along the journey, you.
- [48:24]
Sal DiStefano
And the series is showing people how you did it, and we're going to be releasing the one that shows.
- [48:27]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [48:28]
Aaron Manke
And by the way, it's on YouTub YouTube. On Mind Pump TV.
- [48:30]
Justin Andrews
On Mind Pump TV. And it's. We're about a couple weeks ahead, so it'll, It'll kind of catch you up to the point where we actually show.
- [48:40]
Sal DiStefano
So spoiler alert.
- [48:41]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, I know this is a bit of a spoiler.
- [48:42]
Adam Schafer
That's okay, though, because I think it still is very interesting to watch the Journey because you've, you've openly admitted, like, some things you didn't do right at the beginning that you've changed and modified. Yeah. Like, go over some of the, One of the, Some of the things that you definitely figured out and changed, and then is there anything that in these last, like, say, month leading up that really you felt attributed to that?
- [49:03]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, you know, there's been a couple conversations, and we've had even people on the show, and I'm, like, kind of taking mental notes. Like, even with Stan Effine, we were talking about, like, junk volume and just kind of wasting your time in terms of if you have a specific goal. Like what. Like, I, I, I was kind of approaching it more holistically. I'm looking at, like, reinforcing a lot of my overall body strength, which I think it was actually important that I did that, especially in the first month, because I had been cruising on maintenance and, and I had been lifting, but I hadn't been really stretching myself for years, dude. Like, I've just been, like, what I could just kind of get away with. So for me, I was like, like, you know, in watching your series, I'm like, I'm gonna try to, like, see if I can get ahead of this whole, like, injury thing, because I know it was like, something like that is, like, an inevitable.
- [49:57]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [49:58]
Justin Andrews
Stress point where if there's any kind of chink in the armor, it's. It's gonna get exposed. So I was like, I have to, I have to really be diligent about reinforcing and, and doing this scientifically in terms of, like, what I know now, like, I need to take those steps and not just let my ego come in and, and, and push me through.
- [50:17]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [50:18]
Justin Andrews
So that was tough because it, I had, like, a lot of this undulating. Like, I have pain, but I'm, I'm taking it back. I'm you know, and I was still trying to, like, touch and go, touch and go. And like, I was. I was on that line constantly the first month and a half, like, just, oh, I went too hard. Oh, let's back off. No, I can do more. I went too hard back, you know, and so the. The second month is really where I started to kind of cut a lot of the junk volume out. Okay. And that made a big difference. And so. And again, what's cool is it.
- [50:51]
Sal DiStefano
It's.
- [50:52]
Justin Andrews
The whole thing was really emphasizing a lot of what we talk about on the show of, like, what your body really can adapt to versus what you're tolerating. And. And so I got to that point where I felt like I could actually, like, hold a significant more load. Like, I can start stress testing it and let's actually do the lift itself. And so around the end of the second month, I just started to really start trying to put effort into the push press, which turns out, like, I. I ended up down the road doing this as a jerk press, which is a different version of it, but I felt like it's close enough. It's, you know, it's something that takes the same amount.
- [51:34]
Sal DiStefano
Did you press 315 over your head?
- [51:36]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [51:37]
Sal DiStefano
Hold it there.
- [51:37]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah. I challenge anybody else to get it up there any other way you want. Yeah.
- [51:41]
Sal DiStefano
Unless you had your friends help you.
- [51:43]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, dude, it. I was scared because, like, honestly, I came in scared because I. I hadn't even front squatted 3:15, and I can't even tell you how long. Like, it was like, I felt it and was like, oh, like, no idea how this is gonna go over my head, you know, But I just, I kind of. I don't know, man. It was this weird epiphany. Was just like, I just have to listen to. Have to trust in the fact that this is going to play out the way it's going to play out. And it was more of a psychological endurance for me more than anything because I know I have the strength to produce and generate the force. And I've done 275 before, but that was a long time ago.
- [52:29]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. Were you, like, in your 20s?
- [52:30]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was in my 20s.
- [52:33]
Sal DiStefano
That's a big difference, everybody.
- [52:35]
Adam Schafer
It is a big difference.
- [52:35]
Sal DiStefano
Wait till you're in your mid-40s.
- [52:37]
Justin Andrews
Like 225. I was like, I was confident, like, said I could confidently do that pretty easily, but that's not anywhere close to.
- [52:44]
Sal DiStefano
Us 90 pounds heavier. So.
- [52:49]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. So then it was just a matter of, okay, if I'm going to do this lift, and I'm, like, somewhat proficient in it. Not like, I've never been coached in it. And then I just. The light bulb, I'm like, I got to find somebody to look at my form and really, like, give me an idea of, like, some ways I can improve these little nuances and, like, get. Get out of my head.
- [53:12]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [53:12]
Justin Andrews
And once I. Once I had a coach involved now, it was like a lot of the psychological torment I was placing on myself. I was, like, offloaded. And then it was like, he's like, no, all you gotta do is this. You gotta put more pressure on your toe. We gotta get, you know, your. Your body in this position where you're stable.
- [53:31]
Sal DiStefano
And.
- [53:31]
Justin Andrews
And then he just kind of broke it all down. And then I was like, it just clicked. I'm like, oh, go. Okay. And he's like. And something he said to me that really stuck was, it's always going to feel heavy. And I didn't think about that because it was like, you know, when you get stronger, you're like, it's not going to feel quite as heavy. Yeah. You know, this is always going to feel crushing when you get. I'm crushing the head.
- [53:52]
Sal DiStefano
Well, you know, like. Like, I guess you get. You can. You know that thinking back, like, once you get past this to a certain strength, all the weight feels.
- [53:59]
Adam Schafer
I feel like. I feel like that's £300 at least. That's what it's been for me. It doesn't even matter what the lift is. What the lift is, is £300 on the bar.
- [54:07]
Sal DiStefano
It's always heavy.
- [54:07]
Adam Schafer
It's just a lot. So it's a lot more than what I weigh. It's a lot of weight. You know, I'm saying anything below that is, like, it feels a little more manageable. But once you hit that 315 and above, it just feels always heavy.
- [54:18]
Justin Andrews
And then it's like, at that point, it's just a matter of if you can get it to move.
- [54:22]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [54:22]
Justin Andrews
And it's like, if you can just like, create any kind of movement, like, we can. We can get you in a position where you're just going to trust your body to. To get into that position and. And hold and sustain it and lock it out and.
- [54:36]
Sal DiStefano
So how'd you feel after you hit it?
- [54:39]
Justin Andrews
Incredible. If. I mean, at first, because I. I honestly was ramping up and I. It was the shortest workout because I was like, I just wanted to get to the.
- [54:49]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [54:50]
Justin Andrews
Goal.
- [54:50]
Sal DiStefano
You conserve energy, too.
- [54:52]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [54:52]
Sal DiStefano
And that.
- [54:52]
Justin Andrews
That was the other thing was, I was just. I mean, I was. I. I decided to take, like, five days off, like, completely.
- [55:00]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, you gotta peek.
- [55:01]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. All this.
- [55:02]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [55:03]
Justin Andrews
And so I, I. I got there, and then. And then I was just in. In good psychological space. I was like, let's go.
- [55:10]
Sal DiStefano
Let's.
- [55:10]
Justin Andrews
Let's go for it. Let's hit it today. And so he just kind of was putting the bar. The weight on the bar. And then I was. I was getting under each one.
- [55:20]
Adam Schafer
And did you know right away? Could you. Could you tell right away?
- [55:22]
Justin Andrews
I had this weird confidence that day. Yeah.
- [55:24]
Adam Schafer
O.
- [55:26]
Sal DiStefano
It.
- [55:26]
Justin Andrews
It. It's funny because, like, you know, and Courtney's great, but she. She never really, like, she'll say something that's so impactful for me, sometimes not even realize it. She's like. She's like, I know you're gonna get it today. And then just, like, walks and goes, like, it takes the kids, you know.
- [55:44]
Sal DiStefano
I'm gonna get it.
- [55:47]
Justin Andrews
All right, that stuck. And it was like, I had that, like, weird air of confidence. And then. Yeah. And then I got. I got to the point I was ramping up, and it was 3:15. And I kind of knew it because before that, he was trying to subtly kind of bring it up with kilos. And.
- [56:07]
Sal DiStefano
Don'T look at the weight.
- [56:08]
Justin Andrews
This is heavy, you know, But I'm not sure we're there yet. And you know what's funny and ironic is the smelling salts me up. Oh. Didn't work. Too much to the fact.
- [56:19]
Adam Schafer
Oh, too much.
- [56:20]
Sal DiStefano
I'm probably already on fire.
- [56:21]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. And I think, too, it. It got too amped where I. I had too much forward lean with it, and I went too quick with. So it was so weird about it. It's. It's such a. A technical. Like, if I'm. If I was to pull it off, like, in seamless, you want it to be, like, super smooth. And, like, your. Your body just, you know, gets into position huge. So you have to, like. Like, you have to descend slower, which is. That's. That's completely a contradiction.
- [56:52]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, yeah.
- [56:53]
Justin Andrews
Because. Because every time I, like, push, press, or do anything with power.
- [56:57]
Sal DiStefano
Bam.
- [56:57]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. You're doing this, like, really quick coiling.
- [57:00]
Sal DiStefano
I didn't know that.
- [57:01]
Justin Andrews
And so I'm going slow down. And then. And two, it keeps me more vertical, so I'm, like, in the pocket.
- [57:08]
Sal DiStefano
Oh. You know why? I think going down too fast causes too much.
- [57:11]
Justin Andrews
Too much momentum.
- [57:12]
Sal DiStefano
Momentum. And you got to reverse that.
- [57:14]
Justin Andrews
Exactly.
- [57:14]
Sal DiStefano
It's not 315 now. It's 385 or whatever.
- [57:16]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [57:18]
Justin Andrews
So that was weird for me. And like. So the first two attempts, I actually biffed, like, hard. One of them. I. I went down too quick, and then I was. I was like really forward and I literally threw 3:15 at, like, Josh or whoever was right there. So there's one. Yeah. Clip where, like, it was off and it was coming at him.
- [57:41]
Sal DiStefano
And then you had to do more than one attempt.
- [57:43]
Justin Andrews
I did three. Like, so three attempts total. Third one I got.
- [57:46]
Sal DiStefano
Bro, that makes it even more exciting.
- [57:47]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. In the third one, I was just. That was it.
- [57:52]
Sal DiStefano
Bro, you're a beast.
- [57:54]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [57:54]
Sal DiStefano
You know how cool that is that you're like, your age, lifting that much? First of all, I don't care what age you are. That's crazy. The fact that you're at your age. There's a lot of dudes right now who are watching and listening, who are in their 40s, who are real happy, dude. They're really. You know what I mean? They're excited forties.
- [58:10]
Adam Schafer
It's such a. It's such a cooler thing, too, than the I did because it's like. Like you get like a different high. Like, I don't get to experience that high.
- [58:18]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [58:19]
Adam Schafer
It's not the same. You know what I'm saying? My mind was mine.
- [58:23]
Justin Andrews
So awesome.
- [58:24]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [58:24]
Justin Andrews
I don't ever, like, take my shirt off.
- [58:26]
Adam Schafer
But it doesn't matter because even my. Even though a little bit excitement is delayed, I have to wait for a report to tell me. Like, you know, instantly you're like, yeah, we're like. I'm like, well, I hope it comes in good.
- [58:40]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [58:41]
Adam Schafer
Like, oh, cool. I'm there. I'm ripped. Cool.
- [58:43]
Sal DiStefano
It's not.
- [58:44]
Adam Schafer
It's so different, you know, so.
- [58:45]
Sal DiStefano
Plus, I mean, that's easy to brag about. I lifted three. You're like, well, yeah. One time I look.
- [58:49]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Yeah. I have.
- [58:51]
Sal DiStefano
Look at my pictures.
- [58:53]
Justin Andrews
I'm going to rest on that for a while, you guys.
- [58:55]
Sal DiStefano
Are you kidding me? That's. You're going to tell your grandkids about this. This, and you got the video to show it, too.
- [59:00]
Adam Schafer
It's good for your boys to see that, too and let them know you get a long way still.
- [59:03]
Sal DiStefano
It's funny.
- [59:04]
Adam Schafer
Long ways before you take this throne.
- [59:05]
Sal DiStefano
Never be.
- [59:06]
Justin Andrews
The whole time he's been extra, like, chipping at me and, like, since I've been training, like, I just. It's. It's funny because he used to be able to get me, you know, like, sometimes I wouldn't quite be able to hold My ground. Because he'd catch me off guard.
- [59:19]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [59:19]
Justin Andrews
And like he's been trying every angle and then it's. It's weird when you're like in the zone and you're training really strong. Like he just, he's like one hand.
- [59:31]
Adam Schafer
The best part about that is that you pushed 315 over your head. It's going to be a long time before your boys can even pick 315 up. So imagine that's going to be in their head like that for a while. Just like, damn, my dad put this over his head. I can't even get it off the ground, bro.
- [59:43]
Sal DiStefano
That's like. That's a 1, like 1% of lifters or less.
- [59:46]
Justin Andrews
That was my motivation, I'll be honest. Like, they're strong.
- [59:50]
Sal DiStefano
Oh yeah, boys are strong, dude.
- [59:52]
Justin Andrews
Especially.
- [59:52]
Adam Schafer
That's what I mean. You just bought, you just bought yourself at least five more plus years right there by the by, knowing that, man, I can't even get 315 off the ground. My dad put this over his head. Like, I don't. I ain't challenging.
- [60:01]
Sal DiStefano
You know, I gotta say something. You made a little comment about your wife saying, you know, that, that comment, you know, it's funny when you read about the, the, the power that, that a wife's words has on her husband. It is profound. Oh, yeah, I've been reading a lot about that.
- [60:15]
Justin Andrews
She's really good about being subtle with that.
- [60:18]
Sal DiStefano
But you know, just women, women need to know this as a wife because like, it's different for, for them, for their husbands. But women, you have the ability to crush or completely build up your husband with just your words. I mean, this is biblical. It even talks about it biblically. But her little, that little comment you make, you talking about that a lot. A lot of wives don't know that you can make your husband feel invincible.
- [60:39]
Adam Schafer
You think they don't know?
- [60:40]
Sal DiStefano
I think that's something.
- [60:42]
Adam Schafer
I think you just mansplained. All of them, they all know.
- [60:45]
Sal DiStefano
I think sometimes they don't realize because they'll say things and you know, a lot of men are stoic.
- [60:49]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [60:49]
Sal DiStefano
Not realizing they're breaking them down because.
- [60:51]
Adam Schafer
You know, I think, I think most of us are naive. I think most girls are like two, three steps ahead. That's what makes them.
- [60:59]
Justin Andrews
Pretty good with the cycle.
- [61:00]
Sal DiStefano
I wanted to crush him. Yeah. Oh, that sucks. Anyway, I gotta say this. On what date do we have the Trainer series coming out? The bonus episodes? Doug, is that on May 19th?
- [61:11]
Aaron Manke
Is it the 19th? That's the Monday.
- [61:13]
Sal DiStefano
May 19th. We have three episode series. It's a bonus series that's literally next Monday right now. Anybody can listen to it. It's on Monday. Anybody can listen to it. But we did it for trainers. It's three episodes and they're designed to make you a better trainer. And then if you go to trainerwebinar.com you can also sign up for free for a sales training that I'm gonna do, which is gonna be on June 3rd. They're all free. So all of them are free. The episodes are dropped on Mind Pump and then the train, the webinar. You got to go to trainerwebinar.com to sign up. If you're a trainer, go. And you don't have to. It's all free. You don't buy nothing.
- [61:45]
Adam Schafer
Trying to build some badass trainers.
- [61:46]
Sal DiStefano
That's it. 100%. Let's do it. Mind Pump is now offering group coaching. We've tried this in the past. It was extremely successful and popular. So we are now doing two groups. Two groups of 50. That's it. We're cutting it off at 50 people for both groups. Groups. The first group, fat loss. The second group is muscle gain. So if you want to lose body fat or build muscle, and if we still have space and you're Interested, go to mindpumpgroupcoaching.com by the way, it's our trainers. They're Mind Pump trainers who are going to be coaching you. Go check it out again. It's mindpumpgroupcoaching.com back to the show.
- [62:22]
Aaron Manke
Our first caller is Ethan from Georgia.
- [62:25]
Sal DiStefano
What's up, Ethan?
- [62:26]
Adam Schafer
What's going on?
- [62:27]
Sal DiStefano
What's up?
- [62:27]
Adam Schafer
How you doing?
- [62:28]
Sal DiStefano
How you doing, man? How can we help you?
- [62:29]
Adam Schafer
All right.
- [62:30]
Kiara
Nervous. Nervous to go.
- [62:31]
Sal DiStefano
Get out. But I'm all right. All right, good deal. What's happening? How can we help you?
- [62:36]
Kiara
So I'm dialing in, calling in today because I'm really feeling the pull.
- [62:41]
Sal DiStefano
Sorry about that.
- [62:42]
Kiara
Really feeling the pull towards personal training. I'm feel I just did something that's been digging with me for a while. I've actually listened to every episode y' all had. And since about episode 100, y' all really made me just kind of want to head that way. And so the only issue I'm having with it is, is the financial side of it. I can't justify in my head leaving the job I have now, which gets me a easy paycheck, gets me a paycheck that I know is coming and I know it's going to be there. And I can't really get it through my head that I don't know what I'm going to be making and I don't know if I'm going to cover my bills. I'm 23. I know I've got plenty of time to do it and I could really probably should just kind of suck it up and go and do it, but I'm letting my head get in my. I'm letting my head get in the way of it.
- [63:25]
Sal DiStefano
So.
- [63:25]
Kiara
Any advice would be appreciated.
- [63:26]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [63:27]
Sal DiStefano
Good.
- [63:27]
Adam Schafer
You have family, kids, you live at home, you live with friends.
- [63:31]
Kiara
I live at, live at home. I'm single, no kids, bro.
- [63:34]
Sal DiStefano
Ethan, bro, now's the time. Are you serious?
- [63:36]
Adam Schafer
This is the time.
- [63:37]
Sal DiStefano
Hold on, hold on. Give him a chance. Give him a chance. I want you to just take it.
- [63:40]
Adam Schafer
Well, hold on.
- [63:41]
Sal DiStefano
Pause real quick, Ethan. Think about what you just asked us. Okay? What do you think we're going to tell you right now? Ethan, remember, you're talking to three to four guys who've started several businesses, who've taken big risks with families, with children, who've had to take that step. So just real, just pause for a second. What do you think we're gonna tell you, Ethan?
- [64:00]
Kiara
The thing I think you're gonna tell me is just make the jump.
- [64:03]
Sal DiStefano
But like.
- [64:04]
Kiara
Yep, I'm in my head. I just need, I need it to hold. I really am. I'm in my head.
- [64:07]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. Yeah, you are. You wanna, you wanna, you wanna get out of that?
- [64:12]
Kiara
I do, yeah. I wanna, I wanna get into the personal training business. Get out of my head.
- [64:16]
Sal DiStefano
And I'm not gonna have, you're not gonna have the right feeling. If you're waiting, it. It's not going to happen. Just make the decision.
- [64:22]
Justin Andrews
No better time. Like in, in terms of where you're at in, in life and, and everything around you, responsibility wise, this is perfect for you to just go for it.
- [64:31]
Adam Schafer
It may be, by the sound of you, it might be a disadvantage that you are in such a good place to do this because maybe that's probably why you're talking yourself out of it. Maybe you don't have enough on the line. Maybe the fact that you know that you could go try it and you know, you, you still have a roof over your head and you'd be okay if you weren't making a lot of money and you don't have enough risk is what makes you scared. But this is honestly the best opportunity. You'll look back at this time in your life when you get older, if you don't do this. And you're gonna. Because you're always gonna wonder if you, if you, if you're even considering being the trainer. And you know what you, what you're going to know in your 30s and 40s, looking back at this time in your life, you're gonna go, yeah, if there was ever a time I should have done it, it was then. Because I'm not gonna starve. I'm not gonna not have a roof over my head. If I fail, it'll suck. It'll set me back for a couple months. I'll have to rebuild or get a new job. But all in all, you couldn't be in a better situation to take a risk like that.
- [65:32]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. Look, worst case scenario, first off, what you should do, what I think you should do. And I'll try to convince you. Although part of me doesn't want to convince you. Part of me wants to say to you, then don't.
- [65:43]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, exactly.
- [65:43]
Sal DiStefano
If you're. If you're gonna let your fear run you that way, then this isn't for you. But I'm gonna convince you a little bit. What's the worst that could happen? You try it out for a year, it fails. Okay. Can you get another job? Will mom and dad kick you out of their house?
- [65:58]
F
No.
- [65:59]
Sal DiStefano
Are your kids going to starve? You don't have kids.
- [66:01]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [66:01]
Sal DiStefano
Your wife's going to leave it. You don't have a wife. You're fine. So what's the worst that happened? The worst that could happen is that you took a chance. I'm going to tell you the story I like to tell my 4 year old son on how I explain bravery to her.
- [66:15]
G
Him.
- [66:15]
Sal DiStefano
Okay, let's imagine there's a. There's a building that's on fire. Superman flies in the building and saves everybody. Is he brave?
- [66:22]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [66:23]
Sal DiStefano
No. Because Superman, fire. Don't touch Superman. He can. He can sit in a fire. Firefighters that go in that fire, that could die, they're being brave. Right? Because they're scared. So right now you're scared. So you have a choice. You can choose to be brave or you can choose to not be brave. That's on you.
- [66:41]
Kiara
Okay?
- [66:43]
F
Okay.
- [66:44]
Adam Schafer
You finished?
- [66:45]
Aaron Manke
Yeah.
- [66:45]
Kiara
That's about what I was thinking y'.
- [66:46]
Adam Schafer
All were gonna take. Well, I mean, the fact that you've listened to every episode too, Ethan. And I mean, I do love that you've probably heard us tell people how hard it will be and that it's. It's a hustle and a grind and so. And the fact that you still want to gives me hope that, you know, this is something for you, but, man, you. I tell you what, if you, if you don't do this, you will look back at this time in your life and it. This will. This will haunt you, dude. It really will. It'll haunt you because you'll go, never in my life did I have the opportunity I had to take a risk with the least amount on the table than probably right now in your life. It'll only as you get older and more responsibility and other people you're responsible for and more pressures like a mortgage and all these other things. It only gets even scarier to make decisions like this. Yeah.
- [67:35]
Sal DiStefano
So I remember when I was. Let's see, I was 18 years old, I was a trainer, and I was going to college at the same time, and I started moving up very quickly in the company and I realized I had to either step down from my position or go full force in the fitness industry. And this was a big decision for a kid. My parents didn't pay for college. I'm first generation American. I would have been the first person to graduate college in my family. And I had this path. I was going to become a physical therapist. And so what I did is I said, I'll give myself a year. So I'm going to go 100% for a year in fitness. 100%. So I don't want to look back and be like, I could have tried harder. I'm going to go 100% for a year. At the end of the year, if this is not working for me, I'll go back to going to school.
- [68:24]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [68:24]
Sal DiStefano
And so that's what I did. And guess what happened? I never looked back.
- [68:28]
Adam Schafer
I did the same thing.
- [68:29]
Sal DiStefano
Right?
- [68:29]
Adam Schafer
Same, same, same agreement. Make that agreement with yourself. The thing I worry about, Ethan, and when I. When I talk to young men that are in similar situations, you. Is because it's not scary enough. You think it's scary. It may not be scary enough. They tend to drag their feet, you know, because they know that in the back of their mind they have this safety net of mom and dad will take care of me or my family won't leave me out. And sometimes that can be what doesn't get people. And so that's the only fear I have, is that it's actually not as scary as you think it is. And it needs to be scarier sometimes for people. Like, like, I think this is.
- [69:04]
Sal DiStefano
Maybe we should call his parents. Are you, Are you. Is there a big box? Is There a Big Box Gym by where you're at, driving distance just down the road.
- [69:15]
F
Yes, sir.
- [69:15]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, go. Okay, here, look. Go get a job at the Big Box Gym as a personal trainer. Start like that, you're going to get a paycheck. The leads are there. It's the easiest way to become a trainer. It's also one of the best ways to learn. You've heard us talk about this a million times. You're going to be exposed to a lot of people, a lot of volume. Train at the Big Box Gym. Become the top trainer at the Big Box Gym and then see what you want to do from there. That's step one. And I'm going to tell you right now, you'll probably get hired if you go over there with the right attitude. Hey, I want to be a trainer. This is my passion. I want to learn. The fitness manager there is going to be like you're hired and then go for it. It's like one of the easiest ways to go. Start there and then see what happens.
- [69:51]
Adam Schafer
What Sal said is the most important advice in my opinion when he said that the, the number one thing strategy because this won't be the last time this, this happens in your life by the way. You'll have decisions like this that you, you'll be hesitant to is to make peace with the worst outcome. Play out the worst outcome in your head. You try this for a year, you fail at it, you suck. You don't make any money, you're living on top ramen for a while. All, all, all the above play out.
- [70:16]
Sal DiStefano
You hate it.
- [70:16]
Adam Schafer
What the worst scenario for the next year is and make peace with that and go like, okay, if that all happened right? If I failed, had to do all those things, would it be the end of the world? Would I still be able to pick myself back up? Would I still be able to get another job? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. I can, I can do that. I can, I can feel that now. Once you make that commitment, you do everything in your power to not you go hard. Yeah you, you to not fail. But you make peace first with what that worst case scenario looks like. And, and, and ask yourself, k, will I be okay? Can I survive? And if the answer is yes, then.
- [70:47]
Justin Andrews
You gotta go open up your schedule, man. Don't limit it. Once you get there too too train everybody.
- [70:53]
Sal DiStefano
Yes.
- [70:53]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, you don't have a window of oh, this is when I'll be available. This is when I can work. You're, you live there.
- [70:59]
Adam Schafer
Don't miss any of our webinars either that we're doing and getting involved in our community. I mean, because we're. We're helping guys just like you as you go through. I mean, we just had an in person one with a bunch of trainers that flew out here to spend some time with us. And our goal is, you guys that have been listening to us for this long, that are inspired to become trainers, is to help elevate all you guys. So make sure you're. You're eating up all the content that we'd be putting out there.
- [71:20]
Sal DiStefano
There. Yep.
- [71:21]
F
All right.
- [71:22]
Kiara
I appreciate it. I appreciate that's what I needed to hear was that I was being stupid.
- [71:28]
Sal DiStefano
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not being stupid. You're being scared.
- [71:32]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [71:33]
Sal DiStefano
You're actually being smart. You're overthinking everything.
- [71:36]
Justin Andrews
You're overanalyzing.
- [71:37]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, my God. What happens if I. You know, whatever. It's not stupid. It's scared. So you got to choose to be brave. Go to that big box gym down the street right now when you hang up, up and go get yourself hired and let's go.
- [71:50]
Justin Andrews
Yep.
- [71:50]
Kiara
Okay. Okay.
- [71:53]
Sal DiStefano
Guess what? Guess what, Ethan? You know, I'm do. Because I. Because I have. Because I think you might need this. I'm going to have you back on in 60 days, and we're going to check in on you. And don't disappoint us because we'll make fun of you the whole time.
- [72:05]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, okay.
- [72:06]
Kiara
Yeah, I got it.
- [72:07]
Sal DiStefano
60 days. We're going to get back on with you. Okay. And we'll coach you a little bit.
- [72:10]
Adam Schafer
All right.
- [72:11]
Justin Andrews
Go get that job.
- [72:12]
Sal DiStefano
Go do it.
- [72:13]
Justin Andrews
Get it.
- [72:13]
F
Yep.
- [72:14]
Adam Schafer
All right.
- [72:14]
Kiara
I appreciate it, y' all.
- [72:16]
Adam Schafer
Best of luck, bro. Have a good.
- [72:22]
Sal DiStefano
He's like, I got no kids. I live at home.
- [72:24]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, you got nothing stopping you.
- [72:26]
Sal DiStefano
What are you doing? You know, I'm gonna tell a story just for our audience, just so they know, because. Okay, we have. We now have a few trainers that work for us here at Mind Pump. And we could, if we wanted, we could hire 100 trainers tomorrow. We have a lot of people who want to work here, but we're doing it slow on purpose because we want the best of the best. So in order to work here, it's hard. So I'm gonna tell a story of one of our trainers, Marcelo. Marcelo is an excellent trainer, but when he came here, he left a nice six figure career. And I mean, retirement, benefits, benefits, career. He was making, like, well into the. He was making good money and he came Here. And he worked for free for a couple months as an intern, then he got paid little as a trainer. And here we are now, I don't know how many months later, four or five months later, this guy's getting commission checks that are $5,000 commission checks, not including his hourly pay. But he had to come and make it happen and take that step and be brave all the way in. And he's got a very bright future here at Mind Pump. But if he didn't take that step and if he wasn't brave and if he didn't pressure and trust the purpose, which is what we're talking about, it would never happen.
- [73:34]
Aaron Manke
Our next caller is Jake from New Jersey.
- [73:36]
Sal DiStefano
Jake, what's happening?
- [73:37]
Adam Schafer
What's going on, Jake?
- [73:38]
Justin Andrews
What's up, dude?
- [73:38]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, what's up? Not much, man. What's going on?
- [73:43]
Adam Schafer
Just.
- [73:44]
G
Yeah, this is wild. All right, so question. Been like a fitness enthusiast 10 plus years now. I've done everything from, like, the bodybuilding, yoga, the CrossFit, the martial arts. And recently, about two years ago, I had a chiropractor injury, an adjustment which left me fe pretty much like bedridden for about two weeks.
- [74:17]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, wow.
- [74:17]
Adam Schafer
Wow.
- [74:19]
G
I never thought I was going to be able to work out again. I completely cut back everything. I just started walking again. Like walking and a lot of, like, started building up the core movements, kind of building like that posterior chain stuff. And about 18 months later, I was about 70, pain free. So then I started going back into lifting, but I was always terrified to go into my squats, my deadlifts, stuff like that. Just the. From the pain. So found out about you guys about four months ago. Ish. And I immediately purchased symmetry through you guys. I concurrently just finished it last week. And the first three phases I was would say I was 99% pain free. I felt absolutely amazing, back to my normal self.
- [75:18]
Sal DiStefano
Awesome.
- [75:19]
G
The five by five phase, however, kind of completely reverted. And I kept everything. I didn't try to push too hard. I kept, you know, I still had a couple reps in the tank. I focused strictly more on form. I wasn't trying to, you know, be me at 21, but it was just like the morning pains, the aches. Basically my question is, I'm having my first kid soon on the way in July. All I want to be there is, you know, I want to be able to wrestle with my kid, I want to be able to play with my kid. I want to live pain free with. For my family. Where do I go from here with the symmetry? How good I felt to keep that balance of being able to be in the gym, feeling good on the outside and living a normal life.
- [76:09]
Sal DiStefano
Good question.
- [76:10]
Adam Schafer
Yes. Yeah.
- [76:11]
Sal DiStefano
Did you get. And did you have an mri? Did you get anything diagnosed like a herniated disc or.
- [76:16]
G
So I have. I did get an MRI and it said I had six herniated discs.
- [76:21]
Sal DiStefano
Okay.
- [76:22]
G
But clearly that didn't happen just from a chiropractor adjustment. Like, I work manual labor. I'm an aircraft mechanic, and I'm also 6 foot 7, so, like, I'm bending a lot.
- [76:35]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [76:37]
G
So I know that I probably already had the herniated discs and was living fine with them. It was just something that happened in that adjustment that probably threw everything.
- [76:45]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, yeah. And is. Are. Are the herniated discs where the pain comes from?
- [76:50]
G
Yes, it's mostly like lumbar area.
- [76:52]
Sal DiStefano
Okay. Okay. So here's the deal. What I. If. What I would suggest, I would stay in symmetry and not do the final phase. The final phase. And I would stay in there for a long time. Repeat for a very long time.
- [77:05]
Adam Schafer
Especially since you were feeling so good.
- [77:08]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [77:08]
Adam Schafer
During that.
- [77:09]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. It was too fast for you to move into bilateral five by five.
- [77:12]
Adam Schafer
And I know you. You probably. I know you've only been listening for, like, four months, but, yeah. People hear us talk about the benefits of, you know, back squatting and bilateral. But in a case like yours where I have a client that has that. And. And we're feeling so good doing all this unilateral. I'll keep you in unilateral for years if I need to. Because you can build an incredible, healthy, strong, balanced physique.
- [77:36]
Sal DiStefano
That's right.
- [77:36]
Adam Schafer
Never bilateral squatting. It just. You don't need. You don't have to do it.
- [77:41]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [77:41]
Adam Schafer
And so your body telling you that it felt so good doing that and then it didn't feel so good going is enough for me as your trainer to go, yo, we're going to stay right here, bro.
- [77:51]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. I had a client, this reminds me of a client I trained years ago who had had a couple herniated discs and had. She basically accepted that she was always going to be in pain. She was just always kind of like in pain, and it was a problem. She hired me as her trainer and I trained her for a year. Then she became a personal trainer and worked for me, so she became certified. So she continued to exercise properly. And it wasn't until maybe three or four years of proper exercise and avoiding exercise that bothered her and working around it where the back pain essentially Became non existent. So it took a long time of training. There's absolutely nothing wrong with unilateral training is amazing. You're going to develop a great body, strong, the whole deal. So what I would say is I would stay in that unilateral phase for a long time. And then when you dip your toe and bilateral and when you start to feel pain, get back out. Okay. It's not ready yet. I'm not ready yet. Got to go back to unilateral. And every once in a while, you could go test it a little bit. Let me ask you this. When you started the final phase of symmetry, the bilateral 5x5, when did you notice it started to bother you?
- [79:02]
G
It was like, so when I'm doing the workouts, I'm fine. It's like the next morning, it's like I feel my spine almost bruised and compressed.
- [79:11]
Sal DiStefano
Got it. And this was after the first workout?
- [79:14]
G
Yeah, from the start of the five by five.
- [79:17]
Sal DiStefano
Right. So what I would have done is after the first workout, you feel that. That back out.
- [79:21]
Adam Schafer
Right out.
- [79:21]
Sal DiStefano
Yep, I'm done. Yeah. I'm gonna go right back to. To unilateral. And so that's the way I would treat something like that. Yep. Okay.
- [79:27]
G
So I can just.
- [79:29]
Adam Schafer
You could just stay. Yes.
- [79:31]
G
Phases over and over again.
- [79:32]
Adam Schafer
Yes. That. That program is so balanced.
- [79:35]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [79:36]
Adam Schafer
It's got rotational stuff in there. You. Because you're doing unilateral, you could literally live in that. And just like Sal's saying, you know, if we've been training for a long time, we. You might get to a point like, man, Adam, I'm feeling so good.
- [79:47]
Sal DiStefano
Good.
- [79:47]
Adam Schafer
Let's test. Let's test the bilateral. Let's try. And then we'll. We test it. And the minute your body responds that way, I'd be like, nah, it's. We're good. Go back now. If it felt good, we'll be like, all right, cool. Let's. Let's see if we. Let's see if we can keep progressing this way. And then the minute, again, you feel that way, I'm gonna go the other way. There is nothing wrong with you training unilateral forever if you had to, which.
- [80:05]
Sal DiStefano
I don't think that's going to be the case.
- [80:07]
Adam Schafer
I don't think so either.
- [80:08]
Justin Andrews
So. And even too, like, a lot of the bilateral movements at that point, you can. Can use dumbbells and kettlebells, and you can kind of keep some management there so there's less compressive forces. But you're going to want to work your way back. And that's sort of the goal. But it's literally you could live within those first couple phases for quite some time.
- [80:27]
Sal DiStefano
You got to consider too where you were. You. You hurt your back so bad, you were bedridden as a young man who was not out of shape. And then for a long time, it took you a long time to get it to 70%. So it was pretty bad. Whatever it was, whatever happened was pretty bad. So the fact that you got 99% is amazing. Stay unilateral for a while. It's probably going to take you a little while. I don't think you'll ever. I don't think it's going to be forever, though. I think the fact that you felt so good training unilateral so quickly, that to me is like, you know, at some point I think you'll be able.
- [81:01]
Justin Andrews
To go, stability, strength is going to be everything, man. You're going to keep working on that.
- [81:05]
Adam Schafer
I'm going to. I'm going to have Jake, I'm going to have Doug. Doug puts you in our private forum so you have access to us and you also have access to Dr. Brink and Jordan Shallow, which are two of the most brilliant movement specialists that we know. So, yeah, I appreciate that you've got them at your disposal. You've got us at your disposal. But yeah, go back to repeating the symmetry and then just check in with us. You have questions, you feel something weird, you want, you just hit us up in the inside the forum or Dr. Brink and we'll help you through this process. All right.
- [81:34]
G
Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate it, guys.
- [81:35]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, you got it, man. Congratulations on the new kid coming.
- [81:38]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks.
- [81:40]
G
Thanks a lot.
- [81:42]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, I've had a couple clients like that I have to where they were. It took us years and then like little by little gone. But it wasn't like. And I remember the woman I'm talking about, she's one of my very first clients when I opened my studio and you know, I was frustrated because I typically am able to get someone's pain to be gone.
- [82:01]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, yeah.
- [82:02]
Sal DiStefano
In a month. In a couple months. And it was like a year later. But we. She stuck with it and little by little it became a nonissue. But it took years.
- [82:10]
Justin Andrews
Well, it's tough cuz, you know, it seems like you're not at. There's this idea of like normality and it's like they want to get back to like this sort of standard that they have created in terms of their training. But what's benefiting them. It's like it gets overlooked. And it's like, this is where we need to really emphasize.
- [82:27]
Adam Schafer
Well, and so the audience knows there's programs we write that you should phase in and out of. And then we have programs that we write that you could do indefinitely. Symmetry is one of those.
- [82:39]
Sal DiStefano
Performance.
- [82:39]
Adam Schafer
Performance is another one like that. Those programs. And why that is is because they're so well balanced and you might be more movement. Why. Why aren't you doing that in all the other.
- [82:48]
Sal DiStefano
Well, that's because the other one are specific.
- [82:50]
Adam Schafer
Very specific. Right. Get strong, build your metabolism or shape your. Sculpt your body to look a certain way.
- [82:55]
Justin Andrews
Way.
- [82:56]
Adam Schafer
But performance is overall, right? Or symmetry is overall. It's got rotational stuff. It's got unilateral. It's very well balanced. And so the average person could follow that indefinitely and be very healthy, very fit, very strong and never feel like they have to move out. So it's okay to do that.
- [83:13]
Aaron Manke
Our next caller is Josh from Indiana.
- [83:15]
Sal DiStefano
What's up, dude?
- [83:16]
Justin Andrews
What's happening, Josh?
- [83:17]
F
Hey, guys, I appreciate you taking my call.
- [83:19]
Sal DiStefano
How can we help you?
- [83:21]
F
Hey, just get here right to my question. You know, know, obviously love the show as, you know, lifetime trainers and, you know, being. Being the experts that you are. This question might make you guys laugh or angry, I'm not sure which. But at what point would you guys recommend somebody getting liposuction? You know, I went back, I listened to episode 2242 with Dr. Anthony, and it was awesome. It was very informative. He didn't really address, like, when you just say, hey, you've done all you can. You've. You've done exercise, you've done diet, but maybe you just need to go under and, you know, get surgery, a little background. You know, I've worked out pretty much my entire life. I started getting into weight training seventh grade for football. Forever grateful to that coach for getting me into it. You know, I went through some fat years when I first got married, got a desk job, you know, you know, my mid-20s. But the last eight years, I've really honed in, you know, really transformed my body. Went through, you know, everything from weight training to, you know, heavy cardio, everything in between as I age. Right. I'm 37 now, you know, continue to just add more and more to my workouts. More cardio, heavier training, you know, trying to add on as much as I can. But no matter how hard I try, I cannot seem to get rid of kind of my back fat love handles. I Don't know what you would. What you would call that. You know, I've went through multiple macro coaches, multiple, you know, lifting coaches, you know, different programs like that. I've considered some of the cool sculpting, but some of the results I've seen look like they're maybe fake or they've been, you know, modified. I know it might be ridiculous to spend money on liposuction as a dad who's never going to get on stage, but, you know, I also want to be the best version that I can possibly be of myself. And I don't want to hit that age where it's a little too late. I appreciate it.
- [85:05]
Sal DiStefano
Good question, dude.
- [85:07]
Adam Schafer
So I don't know if I ever have or would recommend liposuction. I'm trying to think of a case where I would do that.
- [85:14]
Sal DiStefano
Well, I mean. Okay, look, obviously it's a personal decision, and this is coming from someone who's. Who's struggled with trying to look a particular way since I was a kid. Someone who's used hormones or abused them in the past, who still has issues with some of this stuff. I mean, recently I even talked about on the podcast how I almost went to the black market and got anabolic steroids and I stopped myself by the grace of God. So I know what this feels like. But you said something interesting. Now I can tell you my objective opinion. You sent us a picture. You look fine, dude. You look totally. You look great.
- [85:50]
Adam Schafer
You look fine.
- [85:51]
Sal DiStefano
But I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna respond to something you said earlier. You want to be the best version of yourself, okay? As a dad and as a husband. Right. Okay. How many kids you have, by the way?
- [86:04]
F
Two. Seven year old and two year old.
- [86:06]
Sal DiStefano
Good for you, man. God bless. Okay, what's the best version of you for them? The one who's happy with himself or the one who has to get cosmetic surgery and do things to himself to try to look a particular way? Which one's the better version of you?
- [86:22]
F
Yeah, the first version. Obviously, it's a struggle.
- [86:25]
Sal DiStefano
I know that it is, man. And you got to really look at the root.
- [86:29]
Adam Schafer
Not only that, but, by the way, when you do it, it won't solve that.
- [86:32]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. And lipo is a pretty big deal. Feel. It's pretty. It doesn't feel good. But, I mean, I've had clients that have had it, but you gotta. I don't think it's gonna give you what you're looking for.
- [86:43]
Adam Schafer
No, it won't. It Will not. I don't care if you do it. The, the natural way of getting shredded like a bodybuilder would, and getting on stage or getting it lipoed out of you, it won't solve the feeling that you have. And that's what happens to people that do that. And that's why I wouldn't recommend it. It's for those reasons, to each their own. If you want to do that, I don't care. I'm not gonna judge someone who does that. But, but if the desired outcome is to get that feeling you're looking for, you won't get it. You just won't. You. And it's really hard to tell somebody who in their head's like, how could you tell me that? It's like the same thing with like how people talk about having money and happiness. You can't tell me that if I didn't get rich that I wouldn't be happy. Like, I got to figure it out for myself. And then you do and you go, oh fuck, everybody was right. Happy doesn't, happiness doesn't come from that. Happiness comes from within. Has nothing to do with any external forces or what you look like on the outside. And we've dealt with this with so many clients who battle with and that are not in good shape like you, that are way out of shape. And they, and they go, man, I would just, I'm depressed, I'm sad. It's all this, it's because I look this way and if I could just look that way, I would be happy. And then you get them in shape and guess what happens? They're still unhappy, bro. It just, it becomes something else or it manifests as another body part or. Because internally there's something that needs to be worked on. And so the answer to this is not the extra, you know, three and a half pounds of body fat you have hanging around your low back, which by the way, all dudes pretty much do. And it took me all the way till getting on stage before that part goes away. In fact, all of us buddy bodybuilding guys, when we'd be getting ready for shows and you guys would be all covered up like you walk behind a guy and you grab his back fat because you can always tell how crazy shredded he is by that part. Because even the leanest, buffest dudes in the gym, them still carry extra body fat there until, until they get single digit body fat and on stage. And so it's very normal for the body to be carrying that right there. And light pulling out won't solve it, brother.
- [88:37]
Justin Andrews
Is there any kind of like, performance driven goal that entices you at all in terms of, like, if I were to try to get strong or like, if I, if there's any kind of competitive spirit that would direct you in a way where you could just focus on, you know, this is, this is something I want to conquer and accomplish. And you're going to put most your eggs there as opposed to focusing so much on the aesthetic?
- [89:04]
F
No, it's a great question. I think, you know, I was an athlete most of my life, and so, you know, I've always kind of got that competition or competitive, you know, mindset where I just want to be better. You know, I want to be better than I was yesterday and whatever that looks like. And, you know, I know maybe it's an unhealthy obsession, but, but I guess that's, that's kind of where the, where, where it came from.
- [89:24]
Adam Schafer
I, I appreciate your, your vulnerability to come out here and say you're very honest. I think it's a really, it's a really good question for other people to hear us talk about. I think it's, I think a lot of people feel this way. Not a lot of people have the courage to come on the big podcast and, and talk about it and to put themselves out there. So I do commend you for, for having the balls to do that. And I do think it's a really good question that a lot of people struggle with. But let me tell you from my experience of training, personal experience, I mean, we've all experienced. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's a struggle, man. But, and what sucks is that if you did it, the, the, you'd feel good. Temporarily, very, very temporary. Be a very short one. Just like they use the financial, you know, thing when you first reach that financial milestone that everybody thinks they want to get.
- [90:11]
Sal DiStefano
But even, but especially with the body, it's like perception drift. That's a real thing. Yeah, that's a real. Look it up. Let's see that. With plastic surgery all the time. Time. So it's not going to give you what you're looking for. And who are the most important people in your life?
- [90:23]
F
Oh, my wife and kids.
- [90:25]
Sal DiStefano
Do they care? Do they give a. Does your kid. Does your daddy take. Get rid of these because I'll love you more if you. Nobody care. They don't care.
- [90:33]
Adam Schafer
You know, nobody cares. You know that. That's actually a lens that has helped me a lot from somebody who thought he wasn't Going to have kids and now has a son. I love to. To play that game is. Is if my son asked me about this, how am I going to respond? Like, you know, obviously, you know, you can go get it done and they would never know. But I. I like to play the game. Like, if he know, if he were to watch me do it, how would I explain to him what. What I'm doing and why I'm doing? And then I play that out in my head and go, oh, I don't want to tell my son. I don't. I'm insecure about my low back. And so daddy went and got sir. Like, that's enough right there to get me not doing it. It's like, I don't want. I don't want him to think that way or so. I love to. When you have kids, I love talking to somebody who's got kids and that's has contemplating something like this. Like, play it out in your head. You having to have your kids sitting there watching you do it, and then you have to. And listen, if you can justify it in your head and you think it's a good conversation, then, hey, by all means. But for me, that always really helps me with it, like, deciding like, yeah, maybe I shouldn't do that, because if I have to have that conversation with him, I don't know how I would explain that in a way that would make me feel good. Good about what I'm teaching or showing him. Yeah, that's enough for me.
- [91:42]
F
No, it's awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys.
- [91:45]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, you got it.
- [91:45]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [91:46]
Sal DiStefano
Good luck.
- [91:46]
Adam Schafer
Appreciate you, dude. Good luck, man.
- [91:47]
Sal DiStefano
Thanks, Josh. Yeah, dude. The. The body is a terrible God. You know, you worship the way you look. It is a terrible God, and it's going to tyrannize the hell out of you. And what. What I mean by that is exactly what Adam's saying is you. You.
- [92:03]
Justin Andrews
You.
- [92:03]
Sal DiStefano
You get what you think now is going to serve you. And then that God tells you, no, no, no, no. You go further. It's not enough. Oh, okay, okay, okay.
- [92:13]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [92:13]
Justin Andrews
But also this.
- [92:14]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [92:14]
Justin Andrews
Oh, but now it's not always another.
- [92:16]
Sal DiStefano
Keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. And it's. It's a. It's a terrible God.
- [92:20]
Adam Schafer
So I'm so. I'm so glad, though, that, like, I mean, it takes a lot of courage.
- [92:23]
Justin Andrews
To put yourself for a dude especially.
- [92:25]
Adam Schafer
It's so pretty unique and it's good for the audience to see because I know that there's. There's a There's a, there's a people that are watching like, oh my God, I can't believe this dude is already in great shape and bubble and they're, they're gonna judge him like that. But this happens, this happens to, I tell you what, 90 of your fitness people you all look up to.
- [92:44]
Sal DiStefano
This is a struggle.
- [92:46]
Adam Schafer
This is them, they, they, this. And by the, this is what makes them go into this as a profession because they can obsess about this and they can justify it as it's my job and it's what makes it's. It's helping people be healthy. But in reality, it's a deeply rooted insecurity that drives them to driving towards perfection in their physique that never ends, that we all look at and admire because we think they have this great healthy balance and lifestyle. It ain't true at all. And so I love that he brings this up so we can talk about it because this happens to people that are carrying 100 pounds overweight, all the way down to someone like that who looks really good still and is looking for the next thing. And I'll tell you right now, like, it ain't gonna, it ain't gonna fill that hole. Hole.
- [93:24]
Aaron Manke
Our next caller is Kiara from France.
- [93:27]
Sal DiStefano
Kiara, how are you doing?
- [93:28]
Adam Schafer
How you doing?
- [93:29]
H
I'm fine.
- [93:30]
Sal DiStefano
Cool.
- [93:31]
H
Back from Italy, but it's okay, no problem. How can we help to stay here? Because of the tour, I fell, but I think it's a little bit too Noises, right?
- [93:40]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [93:41]
H
So we'll get inside. Maybe it's easier to understand what I'm saying. Hello, guys. So I will skip all the parts when I say that you are amazing and I will stick with my, my question even though something changes since I wrote the email. But yeah, I have to say you're really amazing and you're doing a great job.
- [94:03]
Sal DiStefano
Thank you.
- [94:04]
Adam Schafer
Thank you, thank you. So.
- [94:08]
H
I'm 51, I'm 5.10. I think that's the measurement, as you say. And I'm 138 pounds and I'm quite active. I work like, like a lot. And I'm doing my 10,000 step a day. That's not big deal. Before I was doing some marathons in triathlons and yeah, I stopped years ago and I was on my, on the peak of my physical shape around 40 when I probably completed the insanity program that I know you're not very fond of that, which is a high intense interval training, but without doing any diet stuff. For the, the first time in my life, I saw my Apps. So I was like, oh my God, that's great. And of course I enjoyed the self and things got spoiled. I was like, yeah, working and taking care of the kids. So of course I gained some weight, et cetera. So three years ago I started menopause and it was really tough. The beginning was like, my goodness. I started waking up with weird pain all over my body. My shoulder was like, I was crying. I couldn't sleep because of my shoulder and I haven't done anything about it. And I got the tennis elbow. Never touched in my life. And so because I used to have this feeling of interval training that make me feel better, I tried to do it again, but it was a disaster. So my, my body really didn't want to. To know about it was like, no, don't do it again. So I tried to educate myself and starting. And I have to say, maybe because I'm is not my primary interest, but it was kind of difficult to find someone that you can trust. And finally I get to know you guys. And that's awesome because there is such a, such a big confusion around this fitness world and, and is not really easy. So I started reversing my diet and that was amazing. Anyway, then I feel a lot of energy and. And something really strange happened. So my menstrual cycle reappeared.
- [96:43]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah.
- [96:44]
H
Which was. It was crazy. And everyone was looking at me like, like, no, that's impossible. So. And because of you, I wasn't like super scared because if I Google it. So the only reason that this can happen is cancer. So at the point that when I wrote the email, I didn't. I haven't done any tests, but I did, I did all my tests. Everything is just perfect. And my doctor just said, no, but you, yes, your ovaries are starting working again.
- [97:15]
Sal DiStefano
So.
- [97:16]
H
But could it be because of the, because of the reverse dieting that I'm eating more? And I said, no, no, nothing to see about that. Let's say. No, I'm sure it's about that. I'm 100% sure because of the feeling that I got. You know, it's just like I'm reversing my declining. So this is also awesome. Thank you for this as well. But my question is more about like finding the right coaching and what can I expect from a coach? Because in this period. So I spent money and I tried to do it by myself and I wasn't able to. I tried to hire someone, but I don't know exactly what do I have to. I mean, I will never be like A fanatic. I mean, maybe. Yes, but. But it's something that I really want to do it to feel better, to look better. Of course.
- [98:16]
Sal DiStefano
So.
- [98:18]
H
It'S not that easy.
- [98:19]
Sal DiStefano
So.
- [98:20]
H
Because for instance, once I had someone but I didn't feel like. Of course it gave me the program, but then I had to figure it out all by myself and, And I think that I wanted to talk about my feelings and stuff, but it wasn't like. I don't know how to say. So I didn't felt like taking care of. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I was like, yeah, I need something more.
- [98:55]
Adam Schafer
We have good news.
- [98:56]
H
So because it's. Yeah. Because I have to spend money, but also time and commitment. I really need to know. Know what to look for and what's the sign that can say, okay, this is a good person for you?
- [99:12]
Sal DiStefano
Or. Good question.
- [99:14]
H
Yeah, that's.
- [99:14]
Adam Schafer
You gonna tell her? Go ahead, you tell her.
- [99:17]
Sal DiStefano
No.
- [99:17]
Adam Schafer
Chair. We have such great news for you. You know, we have, we have our personal trainers here that do this. We don't talk about it very much on the show, but we have a trainer that will. That we can have contact you. That's one of ours and we oversee all the clients here and have them call you and take care of you.
- [99:35]
H
Okay. That's awesome.
- [99:37]
Adam Schafer
Yes. Yes. Okay, great. Yeah, you should.
- [99:39]
Sal DiStefano
What you're saying. So I wanna address a couple things so a menstrual cycle can stop due to over training and undereating. And I had many, many female clients. This is what happened. They weren't in menopause, they were younger, but this would also happen. I had women with issues with fertility and then they started reverse dieting, exercising properly, their fertility improved. So in your case, it might have. Your, your, your menopause might have happened a little sooner because of the low calories and stuff like that. So you made it. That's what the, the refeeding would have helped. Would help with. Nonetheless, it does balance out the hormones a little better. Regardless, as far as a coach or a trainer is concerned, you should feel like they care about you. You should feel supported. You should feel like, man, I really like working with this person. They understand me, they hear me, they listen to my concerns, they have my best interests in mind.
- [100:30]
Justin Andrews
Anticipate problems.
- [100:31]
Sal DiStefano
That's what you should feel from working with a good coach. Because if you don't, they're not going to be effective.
- [100:36]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [100:37]
Sal DiStefano
You have to feel those. Otherwise it's not going to be effective.
- [100:40]
Adam Schafer
There's A lot of cookie cutter programs out there. This has become a very popular space in the last 10 years with the Internet and Zoom calls and the ability to do this. And so, so a lot of coaches and trainers that probably shouldn't be coaches and trainers are now doing it and it is very difficult to know what's a good one or not. This is what inspired us to start this. We had so many of our listeners and clients reaching out to us saying, could you recommend a coach? Could you recommend a coach to us? That we finally said, I tell you what, what we're going to do is build a small team in house that are people underneath us, that we can oversee the programming and make sure they're communicating to our people and taking care of them just like the way you want.
- [101:22]
H
Yeah. Because sometimes I just feel stupid. Like, okay, the problem is not rocket science. I can understand it and I can do what is written and stuff, but I, I don't know if I feel like I don't have the right. I don't know, it's just coaches are there for a reason.
- [101:42]
Adam Schafer
That's right. The right guidance you want to guide, you want to feel guided through this whole process. That's their job.
- [101:46]
H
Their job, exactly. It's just that, I mean, been, just been taking like a baby and. Because I think I, I'm listening to your, to your podcast really like all the time. And when I, when you get questions, there's a lot of time. They are so specific and stuff. And I say, oh my goodness, I'm completely lost. I will never understand what is the point of what they're doing and what can I do with it and stuff. So, yeah, this is a very important thing. But do you think that doing it like on Zoom or stuff? Because I feel, and that's what I start my, my mail with. I feel that in Europe we don't have the same approach. I don't know, maybe you know better. But I, I feel like I always try to come and see what the Americans are doing about that. I don't know, maybe it's just my.
- [102:50]
Sal DiStefano
Well, we know some really good trainers. We've met some that are from Europe, but the fitness industry started and tends to come from. So the information tends to come from the US and so when I communicate to trainers and coaches overseas, they tend to be like five years, five years behind maybe with some of the information. Nonetheless, it's, it's unfortunate. This is good for trainers to hear this, but for the consumer, this is not good news. It is hard to find A good coach. Yeah, anywhere. It doesn't matter where you're at now. You'll find. You'll find more of them in fitness hotspots, like maybe Los Angeles or, you know, bigger cities. You're in Paris. There's probably going to be better. Better coaches there than there would be. Be in some of the smaller towns, maybe in comparison. But they are hard to find. There's a lot of trainers out there, but there's not a lot of really good ones. So.
- [103:46]
H
Okay, so do you think that doing it remotely makes sense anyway?
- [103:51]
Sal DiStefano
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
- [103:52]
Adam Schafer
And the nice part about one of our coaches, what they'll tell you if. If they think that you need to get somebody in person. So if you're going through them and let's say, okay, let's say they're coaching you and they start to hear things from you and they go, oh, you know what? She really needs someone to help her in the gym with the exercises. They'll recommend that to you. They'll tell you, they'll tell you, hey, I can help you a lot here. But it sounds like you also need this. But that's. Their job, is to guide you through that process, to make sure you feel confident as you go through this.
- [104:22]
Sal DiStefano
Think of a really good online coach as your fitness and health manager, and they're going to piece it all together for you. And there's a law they could do a lot virtually with you, but if there are things they can't do, do, they're going to manage all of your fitness and health. So you're like, okay, I do need someone in person once a week to take me through some exercises. Your online coach that works for us will help you find that person. They'll help you find the right person who's going to train you in the right way because they know what to look for.
- [104:51]
H
Okay, that's great because I also bought one of your maps, Transform, because I say, oh, that's a good start, because it's, you know, almost summer and that, but. But I. I couldn't. I mean, by myself, I know I can't do it. It's just like, is maybe for people that are very committed and stuff, but I. I can't. So this was this kind of.
- [105:17]
Adam Schafer
We're gonna help. We're gonna help you through it.
- [105:19]
Sal DiStefano
You just need that.
- [105:19]
Adam Schafer
We're gonna help you through.
- [105:20]
H
Okay, yeah, that's perfect. I've just won another question that I can't find anywhere the answer of, and that is about yawning during the. During the Training. Is this something that happens to someone else or just me? I mean, I had this even when I was running. I don't know. It's just like, if I can't have the old, I don't know what it is. And, and, and I, I keep yawning during my training, which is.
- [105:48]
Sal DiStefano
Oh, yeah, before. Yeah. So if you're not getting a. If you're not not able to get a full diaphragmatic breath, yawning can be a type of a reaction. So, okay, so sometimes.
- [106:03]
H
What do we have to do about it?
- [106:04]
Sal DiStefano
So sometimes. So you could try belly breathing. Do you know what belly breathing is?
- [106:09]
H
I heard it from you, but I don't really know what it is.
- [106:12]
Sal DiStefano
So you'll see this in a lot of people, especially people who are kind of like, go, go, go. Hard work executive. They breathe very shallow. So it's chest breathing. So what you would do is you would lay on the floor to practice this. You put one hand on your upper chest and one hand on your belly button. And then you take a deep breath. And what you want is the hand on your belly button to rise first and fully before the upper chest rises. So you're teaching your body to get a full diaphragmatic breath. And it's going to feel very strange. You might even get a little emotional as you start to teach your body to relax. But that'll help. And then you train yourself that way and it's good. It's a good practice before bed.
- [106:50]
Adam Schafer
This is also a good example of how our coach would help you. We actually have a video of one of our trainers teaching belly breathing. So they would send you a video. They would send you a video and have you do this and work on it and then help you through that process. And if you have questions, they'll help you through that. So this is a great example of. This is what this coach would do with you as you bring up a question like that. And they said, hey, hey, I've got a video to show you how to do belly breathing and I'll send it over to you right now.
- [107:17]
H
Oh, that's perfect. So you will? I will. How can I get in contact with it with this?
- [107:22]
Adam Schafer
When we hang up with you right now, we'll have Doug have the trainer contact you.
- [107:26]
Sal DiStefano
Yep, yep.
- [107:27]
H
Okay, that's perfect.
- [107:29]
Sal DiStefano
Are those Kiara, those pictures? Yes. You look, you look great, Kiara. We see your picture.
- [107:35]
H
Yeah, that was, that was. Yeah, but that was years ago. No, no, no, that's what I wanted to go back to. No, even the recent I was 40. I was.
- [107:41]
Justin Andrews
Wasn't.
- [107:42]
H
The only thing that I see is that now I'm 51, I say, okay, but it's not years ago. It was just some years ago and. And I did what I did. But now I'm. I can't get to. To find. I don't know that I think I'm consistent. But there is something wrong. I think the only way is just having a coach that is following me all, all the way.
- [108:07]
Sal DiStefano
Let's see what happens.
- [108:08]
Adam Schafer
It's a great investment. And. And if we do our job well, you're going to learn a lot. So we'll take care of you.
- [108:15]
H
Okay, that's perfect.
- [108:16]
Adam Schafer
All right.
- [108:17]
Sal DiStefano
Thank you.
- [108:17]
H
Okay, thank you very much.
- [108:19]
Adam Schafer
We'll be in touch. Bye.
- [108:21]
H
Bye.
- [108:22]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, good.
- [108:23]
Adam Schafer
That's great.
- [108:23]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, that's great.
- [108:25]
Adam Schafer
I've had clients that yawn like that before.
- [108:27]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, yeah, Yep. That's. It's a.
- [108:29]
Adam Schafer
Trying to get oxygen.
- [108:30]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah. And there's a term for it. Maybe, Doug, you could look it up. Yawning while exercising doesn't mean you're tired. Weird if there's another reason for it. But I've had clients and belly breathing.
- [108:40]
Adam Schafer
Like you said, your body's trying to get in more oxygen, you know.
- [108:42]
Sal DiStefano
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But, yeah, I mean, she's, she's. What she said is like, if you're hiring a coach or a trainer and you feel disconnect, you don't feel like they're really listening to you. You don't feel like they have your best intentions in mind, like they're not going to be effective no matter how good they are. You have to be fully boss in.
- [109:02]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [109:02]
Sal DiStefano
You have to have that feeling with your coach for them to be able to do a good job regardless of what they.
- [109:07]
Justin Andrews
It's all about communication. So if that's not established, you're not, you know, with a good person.
- [109:12]
Sal DiStefano
Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is @mindpumpjustin. I'm @mindpump. Distefano and Adams @mindpump.
- [109:18]
Aaron Manke
Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the only the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.