2611: Ways to Modify Your Workout Program for Maximum Gains & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Episode: 2611: Ways to Modify Your Workout Program for Maximum Gains & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Release Date: June 4, 2025

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Overview

In Episode 2611 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, and producer Doug Egge delve into effective strategies for modifying workout programs to maximize gains while preventing plateaus and injuries. The episode features in-depth discussions on recognizing signs of overtraining, adjusting training variables, and addressing joint pain. Additionally, the hosts engage in live coaching sessions, offering personalized advice to listeners navigating their fitness journeys amidst varying schedules and physical challenges.

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Key Topics Discussed

1. Recognizing Overtraining

Adam Schafer opens the discussion by highlighting the importance of modifying workout routines to prevent plateaus and injuries. He emphasizes that failing to adjust training can lead to stagnation or harm.

"[Modify your workout program] can propel your gains forward. Failing to modify can cause plateaus or worse, injury."
— Adam Schafer [03:36]

Signs of Overtraining:

• Sal Di Stefano points out that overtraining symptoms can vary depending on individual training styles. He suggests assessing whether one frequently trains to failure, engages in double workouts, or never takes rest days.

  "Are you the type of person who trains to failure all the time?... Or are you the guy who never takes a day off?"
  — Sal Di Stefano [04:54]

• Adam Schafer shares his personal experience, noting that sleep disturbances often precede other signs of overtraining such as muscle fatigue and excessive soreness.

  "The very first sign that shows up for me is sleep disturbance... If I pay attention to that, for me, cutting down the intensity usually does a trick."
  — Adam Schafer [07:13]

• Kirsten adds that for her, the loss of strength and pervasive fatigue are primary indicators of overtraining.

  "I feel like so fatigued and it just carries on throughout the day..."
  — Kirsten [09:29]

2. Strategies to Modify Workout Programs

Reducing Intensity and Volume:

• Sal Di Stefano agrees with Adam's general advice but emphasizes tailoring modifications based on specific training behaviors.

  "If you are doing double days and super setting everything... I'm gonna reduce volume."
  — Sal Di Stefano [05:22]

• Adam Schafer recommends cutting workout intensity by about 50% to help reset the body and alleviate overtraining symptoms.

  "Whenever I start to feel a little burnt out, I don't typically change anything except for lower intensity. And I just go in at 50% intensity."
  — Adam Schafer [05:44]

Adding Rest Days:

• Introducing additional rest days or extending the workout split can provide necessary recovery time.

  "Instead of following a seven day split, you add extra rest days."
  — Adam Schafer [04:14]

Replacing Exercises with Mobility Work:

• Adam Schafer discusses addressing joint pain by substituting traditional exercises with mobility-focused movements to enhance joint stability and reduce inflammation.

  "When you have joint pain, you cut down your volume and you replace that volume with mobility work."
  — Adam Schafer [14:24]

• Sal Di Stefano reinforces that joint pain often stems from weakness or dysfunction, advocating for mobility work to support recovery and prevent further injury.

  "Reducing volume is going to help with bring down inflammation. The added volume and mobility is hopefully going to address the weakness or instability."
  — Sal Di Stefano [14:48]

3. Overcoming Plateaus

Changing Training Variables:

• Adam Schafer suggests altering the tempo of lifts as a straightforward method to break through plateaus. Slowing down reps, especially the negative phase, can provide new stimulus for muscle growth.

  "Change the tempo of your lifting... typically do slower reps... for the next three or four weeks and then watch what happens."
  — Adam Schafer [16:35]

• Sal Di Stefano notes that while beginners may benefit from tweaking a single variable, advanced trainees often need to overhaul multiple aspects of their training to continue progressing.

  "The more advanced and experienced you are, the more likely the variable or the novelty needs to be different."
  — Sal Di Stefano [16:35]

Rep Ranges and Volume Adjustments:

• Varying rep ranges and overall workout volume can also help in overcoming training plateaus by providing diverse stimuli to muscles.

  "Increase your frequency, drop the intensity."
  — Adam Schafer [29:14]

4. Advanced Training Considerations

Hypertrophy vs. Strength Training:

• Adam Schafer discusses recent meta-analyses indicating that training close to failure is effective for hypertrophy but not necessarily for strength gains. This distinction suggests that bodybuilders and strength athletes may benefit from different training approaches.

  "Training close to failure is great for hypertrophy. But when it comes to building strength, not as necessary."
  — Adam Schafer [28:23]

• Sal Di Stefano cautions against over-relying on failure training, advocating instead for balanced programming to achieve long-term muscle growth without the risk of injury.

  "Most people... train consistently overdo the failure training... you can build an incredible physique. I think you can... build a great physique and never have trained to failure."
  — Sal Di Stefano [29:03]

5. Live Coaching and Listener Questions

Caller: Lee from California

• Lee's Question: Managing workout programming amidst changing schedules and limited time, particularly transitioning between intensive programs and shorter protocols like MAPS 15.

• Advice Given:

  • Adam Schafer encourages flexibility, suggesting switching to shorter protocols during busy times to maintain consistency rather than skipping workouts altogether.

    "You could jump to Maps 15... because I love those two programs specifically for what you're saying."
    — Adam Schafer [63:00]

  • Sal Di Stefano emphasizes prioritizing strength training as the core foundation, regardless of time constraints, and adapting the rest of the training around it.

    "Make strength training the core foundation... It doesn't have to look like this one hour workout, three to five times a week."
    — Sal Di Stefano [65:08]

Caller: Matthew from Indiana

• Matthew's Question: Guidance for transitioning into marriage and maintaining fitness amidst life changes, including buying a house and preparing for a proposal.

• Advice Given:

  • Sal Di Stefano recommends making strength training the non-negotiable core of the fitness routine, even if it means reducing the volume or intensity of other activities.

    "Make strength training the core foundation... sometimes it can be two exercises a day."
    — Sal Di Stefano [71:49]

  • Adam Schafer advises leveraging faith-based principles to guide marriage, referencing Ephesians 5 and emphasizing prayer and shared spiritual practices to enhance marital satisfaction and reduce divorce rates.

    "Couples that pray together nightly have a divorce rate of 1%."
    — Adam Schafer [74:09]

  • Kirsten highlights the importance of intentional communication and growth together as a couple, reinforcing the need for mutual support and understanding.

    "A lot of communication, a lot of understanding differences, lots of areas that we find that we can grow together."
    — Kirsten [74:45]

Caller: Kish from Canada

• Kish's Question: Balancing intensive training for a Half Ironman with weightlifting while managing injuries and maintaining muscle mass.

• Advice Given:

  • Adam Schafer stresses the importance of seasonizing training, advocating for periods focused solely on endurance or strength to prevent overtraining and reduce injury risk.

    "If you try to improve everything at the same time... you're going to run into problems."
    — Adam Schafer [85:05]

  • Sal Di Stefano concurs, suggesting that Kish adopt the MAPS 15 protocol during busy or injury-prone periods to preserve muscle mass without adding excessive stress.

    "This is solvable... move in and out of strength and endurance training based on your season."
    — Sal Di Stefano [90:18]

  • Justin Andrews shares a peer's experience, underscoring the necessity of reducing workout intensity and increasing caloric intake to address overtraining and facilitate recovery.

    "I'm training six days a week... struggling to navigate my training around these injuries."
    — Justin Andrews [98:00]

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Conclusion

In this episode, Mind Pump provides actionable insights into effectively modifying workout programs to optimize gains and maintain long-term health. By recognizing the signs of overtraining and strategically adjusting training variables such as intensity, volume, and rest days, listeners can avoid plateaus and reduce the risk of injury. The live coaching segment further personalizes the advice, addressing real-life challenges faced by the audience. Emphasizing the importance of structured programming, consistency, and balanced training, the hosts empower listeners to navigate their fitness journeys with informed strategies and sustainable practices.

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Notable Quotes

• Adam Schafer [03:36]:
  "Modifying your workout program can propel your gains forward. Failing to modify can cause plateaus or worse, injury."

• Sal Di Stefano [04:54]:
  "Are you the type of person who trains to failure all the time?... Or are you the guy who never takes a day off?"

• Adam Schafer [07:13]:
  "The very first sign that shows up for me is sleep disturbance... If I pay attention to that, for me, cutting down the intensity usually does a trick."

• Sal Di Stefano [14:48]:
  "Reducing volume is going to help with bring down inflammation. The added volume and mobility is hopefully going to address the weakness or instability."

• Adam Schafer [16:35]:
  "The more advanced and experienced you are, the more likely the variable or the novelty needs to be different."

• Sal Di Stefano [29:03]:
  "Most people... train consistently overdo the failure training... you can build an incredible physique. I think you can... build a great physique and never have trained to failure."

• Adam Schafer [74:09]:
  "Couples that pray together nightly have a divorce rate of 1%."

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Recommendations

• For Overtrained Individuals:
  Evaluate your training intensity and volume. Consider adopting the MAPS 15 protocol during periods of high stress or limited time to ensure consistent strength training without overexertion.

• For Athletes Facing Plateaus:
  Experiment with training variables such as workout tempo and rep ranges. Advanced trainees may need to overhaul multiple aspects of their training to continue making progress.

• For Managing Injuries:
  Replace pain-inducing exercises with mobility work to enhance joint stability and support recovery.

• For Balancing Multiple Fitness Goals:
  Seasonize your training by focusing on either endurance or strength during specific periods to prevent overtraining and optimize performance.

• For Strengthening Marital Relationships:
  Utilize shared spiritual practices and understand each other's love languages to enhance mutual satisfaction and reduce conflict.

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By implementing these strategies and maintaining a balanced approach to training and personal life, listeners can achieve their fitness objectives while fostering overall well-being and healthy relationships.

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

Hi, Zoe Saldana. Welcome to T Mobile.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's your new iPhone 16 Pro on us. Thanks. And here's my old phone to trade in. You don't need to trade in. When you switch to T Mobile, we'll give you a new iPhone 16 Pro.

[Sal DiStefano]

Plus we'll help you pay off your.

[Adam Schaefer]

Old Phone up to 800 bucks and.

[Sal DiStefano]

You still get to keep it.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's always a trade in. Not right now. At T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm good. Seriously.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let me check this pocket. Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom.

[Justin Andrews]

Wait, wait one sec.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever.

[Sal DiStefano]

Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Adam Schaefer]

New line $100 plus a month on experience beyond Finance Agreement $999.99 and qualifying.

[Sal DiStefano]

Ported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge. Pay off via virtual prepaid card.

[Doug Egge]

Allow 15 days credits end in balance.

[Sal DiStefano]

Due if you pay off early or cancel mobile.com.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had live callers call in. We got to help them out on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 55 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fitness, science, fat loss, muscle gain. We also talk about current events and we have a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by Mind Pump Group Coaching. We have a fat loss group and a muscle gain group happening right now or soon. These are coached by our trainers. These are mind pump trainers that will coach you either for fat loss or muscle gain. Sign up before they get too full. Go to mindpumpgroupcoaching.com this episode is also brought to you by Organifi, makers of organic incredible supplements. Today we talked about their happy drops. You can get 20% off. If you go to Organifi.com that's O R G A N-I F I.com mindpump use the code mindpump get 20% off. And finally this episode is brought to you by Luminos by Entera. They make some incredible skincare products today. We talked about their skincare products product that contains the peptide GHK Cu, which has been shown to boost collagen production by 70%. Nothing does that. Nothing except for GHK. See you again. Luminous by Interrago to enter a skincare.com forward/mpm that's E N T E R A skincare.com mpm use the code npm get 10% off. We also have a sale on some programs this month. The shredded summer bundle of workout programs and the bikini bundle of workout programs. Both those bundles 50% off. If you're interested, go to maps fitnessproducts.com and use the code JUNE50 for the discount. Here comes the show.

[Sal DiStefano]

T shirt time.

[Doug Egge]

And it's T shirt time.

[Sal DiStefano]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Doug Egge]

Four winners this week. Two for Apple Podcasts, two for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Provangelist 12 and M. Brooks 2007. And for Facebook, we have Shea Andrews and Jarrett Simon. All four of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Modifying your workout program can propel your gains forward. Failing to modify can cause plateaus or worse, injury. We're going to talk about the ways to modify your program for maximum gains and when and why you should do this.

[Sal DiStefano]

That was a great idea.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's go. Another one from Adam. Wow, your dancing got better, too. So, all right, I'll start with the first one and then we can kind of break down a little bit. What modifications mean. One of the more common reasons why you wouldn't want to modify your program is because you feel overtrained. You feel a little burnt out, fatigued, noticing sleep issues, a little excessive soreness. You just feel like you're overdoing it. This is a very important time to modify your routine. And the best ways to modify your routine in order, I think, although we can debate and discuss what we think would be kind of lower intensity first, then cut volume down and then add more rest days. Although I do feel that this order can be switched.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, 100. I think that's good general advice, but the truth Is you would make that decision based off of a couple qualifiers. You would ask somebody, are you the type of person who trains to failure all the time?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Or are you the person who's doing double days? Like, so if you're like a trained to failure all the time, I'm gonna back off. Intensity. If you are doing double days and super setting everything. Volume. Kitchen sink. I'm gonna reduce volume. So it really depends on what. Or if you're the guy who never takes a day off, he trains seven days a week. I'm gonna do a rest day. So it really depends on that. I think what you said is good general advice. Kind of go down the. But if you know that you're one of those three, that's how I would probably.

[Adam Schaefer]

So let's speak personal experience. So for me, whenever I start to feel a little burnt out, I don't typically change anything except for lower intensity. And I just go in at 50% intensity. I get a little bit of a pump and I do that for a week or two. And that typically brings me back on track. Part of the reason why I go with intensity, not the others, because I just enjoy being in the gym.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So like not going to the gym, that sucks for me. So I'd prefer to just go much easier. And it's worked out well for me.

[Kirsten]

Yeah, I think, I mean, I, I, it depends on what I'm doing and what my goal is at the time. Obviously, like for what I was doing recently and, and trying to press myself with intensity in lowering the intensity wasn't an option for me. So I definitely lowered the volume, which, which made a big difference. And then later than even dropped another day. So I had another day of rest. But yeah, I think, I think shifting that order definitely depends on what, you know, what you're leading up towards.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think that the tough part with this is a lot of people don't realize that they're here. They don't realize that they're overturned. I think if, if you are feeling it and noticing it, you've been there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you've probably a while now.

[Sal DiStefano]

You've probably been there for a while. Because I think most people, especially people that are, that are into fitness. Right. They enjoy doing this. It's been a part of their life for some time. Tend to think that the soreness and the plateaus and it's just part of.

[Adam Schaefer]

The process or worse, they add intensity, volume.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes. Right. Because they're not seeing the results they want. So they think, oh, I need more harder. And that's probably what's more likely. This person probably needed to reduce intensity or volume the previous time, but they felt that they felt the plateau or they felt not seeing progress and decided, oh, let me add more. When they probably should have backed off before. And then now your body's really screaming at you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. 100. So the number one, the first sign that I see for me when I'm over, when I know I'm over training, if I'm smart, if I'm being self aware, not getting carried away because I can have that relationship with exercise where I. I don't pay attention, I just keep going. But if I'm being smart, the very first sign that shows up for me is sleep disturbance. Before the fatigue in my muscles, before the excessive soreness, before I notice that I'm just not able to push as hard or whatever. It's usually what it looks like for me is I'll wake up once or twice in the middle of the night. I'm a little restless when that starts to happen. If I keep going, then I get the other signs. If I pay attention to that, for me, cutting down the intensity usually does a trick. And how do I know I get better sleep? I start to sleep better.

[Sal DiStefano]

I would say for me, it's excessive soreness is the indicator that I tend to notice first because I've tried to really hone in on my desired outcome of a workout is to feel that I worked out the day before. But I don't want to feel, I don't want to feel that. To me, any sign of that is I. I did more than I needed to. So it's like, okay, if I'm really sore, that's my first indicator of like, okay, I. I overtrain now. It may lead to disrupting my sleep, but I think I noticed first. Yeah. With that, to me, that's the first indicator of like, I always like that. My view is so opposite of how I assess yesterday's workout. Like when I was 25, if I wasn't painfully sore the next day, I was like, oh, that wasn't a good workout. Yeah, you know, yeah, it was a waste. Or I need to do more next time. Which is the complete opposite. Now where it's like, I did a workout the day before. I'm feeling like, okay, yeah, I could, I could tell I worked out a little bit. Okay, that's perfect. If I'm sore at all, I'm like, God damn it. I knew I shouldn't have done that last set. Right. I knew I didn't need to pack on that other £25. I could have just stayed with that weight. That's how I'm assessing it now. It's like I could have done less and, and got just as much out of it.

[Adam Schaefer]

So what's weird about that, what's interesting is I've been so over trained and what happens to me and I've talked to other people. This happens too as well is I stopped getting sore.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah. Because you're so overhead.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just don't get sore from my workout. So adapted and it's. It. I bet I start to feel fatigued.

[Kirsten]

And I start to lose strength. That's where I notice it the most is I feel like so fatigued and it just carries on throughout the day to where I'll be driving home and like nodding off and I'm like, oh my God. I'm just, I'm too over stressed.

[Adam Schaefer]

The first time this really made sense to me was I stupidly in my early 20s, attempted to do a double split, like, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger style routine. And because I own my own business, I had the ability to schedule my clients in a way to where I was doing two workouts a day. And I thought it was going great because I wasn't sore. I wasn't sore. And I'm like, oh, I can keep doing this. I can keep doing this. Of course I had all the other signs. Disrupted sleep, fatigue. I was getting weaker and that's when I was like, oh, okay. The soreness for me isn't the best indicator. It's. It's all the other.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I think that's a really good point because I have been there too. And I think this is when you are more prone to over training. You ignore the early signs of just over soreness.

[Kirsten]

You keep barreling through it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. When you barrel through that, no longer get sore anymore, then you're like, oh, now it's now trickled down to the sleep and then the midday fatigue and stuff like that.

[Kirsten]

Another idiot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Lights.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I agree, I agree with that. I think, I think that again, that's. It highlights my personal evolution of getting better. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're listening with the first.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I'm like, I'm listening right away. The first flag is that. But you're right. Previously I had, I had trained myself to ignore that, that it would have to then bleed into the other ones.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right. So, so real quick recap. You could cut the intensity way down 50% of what you normally do, or you could cut one or two sets off each exercise or a whole exercise completely. Or instead of following a seven day split, you add extra rest days. So now you're working on a 10 day split or something like. Or just take a whole week off.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, a real, I think a generic. So people have actual, like your intense, easy way to just literally reduce all the weight, 50%. I mean, if you reduce the weight of 50% for the intensity, you're like, that's too easy.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's the point.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And then the volume one, if you just took a set off of every exercise is a generic, good, easy way to kind of test. And what's always a great indicator that you were overtrained is you do that and you feel better, you're stronger, you're stronger. You feel like you, you either maintained or gained strength doing less intensity or less volume. That's always a clear indicator that you were overreaching.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right. All right, next up is when you are feeling like you want to get after it, you are feeling good, good night's rest, you're feeling strong, and this is when might be a good time. Good time to kind of get after it. Well, the two ways you could do this are eating either adding volume or adding intensity. In my experience, I get better results and my clients have typically gotten better results by adding volume. Adding intensity, boy, can that turn bad very quickly. Yeah, because the intensity matches the energy real quick and it turns into like, I'm gonna kill myself. But typically what I'll do. And again, what I've done with clients when they're feeling great, we're gonna add just a couple more sets. Not a ton more, but just a couple more. You've already done two more sets. You've dramatically increased the volume and you've taken advantage of this great energy.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm with you. I agree on adding volume here because it's just adding intensity is such a delicate thing. Right. It's, I mean, I think of intensity like the nitrous in a car. Right? It's like, absolutely. It has tremendous value. We know what the research says about cracker engine block. Yeah, exactly. No, seriously, that's why I like that analogy. Because it's like, yeah, absolutely. A shot of NOS will definite get you ahead, but it's also easier to abuse that or blow an engine rod. It's like you're far better off just driving a little further. You know, drive a little bit further, more volume. Right. And you're, you're less likely to over overdo it versus, oh, I feel great today. And you Go right to that nitrous, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Because I've done. I've overdone it with intensity because I felt like I was great.

[Kirsten]

Yeah, I'm so much better with my clients with this. Obviously been guilty of going the intensity route, but yeah, it's so much better to do volume.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally. Next, joint pain. You got like nagging joint pain. This is a combination of things that you do at the same time. And most people only do one or the other. So here's what you do. When you have joint pain, you cut down your volume and you replace that volume with mobility work. In other words, you replace volume with your traditional exercises with mobility work volume. Now, most people do this. They either cut the volume and that's it. So like, oh, I'm going to do less shoulder press. It hurts my shoulder, which is a very temporary fix. Doesn't really solve the issue. Or they just throw mobility on top of their current workout and the body can't necessarily handle the extra work. So what it looks like is let's say you're going to the gym and you have kind of nagging shoulder pain and your typical workout, let's just say, was, you know, overhead press, three sets and three sets of laterals. And you notice the overhead press is what really hurts your shoulder. Well, now I'm going to do three sets of mobility and then laterals. I'm going to skip the shoulder press and replace it with mobility work.

[Kirsten]

It's not like a band aid. The. And I have seen this a lot, especially with clients. They'll ask for certain movements and things to really help with this pain, and then they'll just add it before or on top of what they're currently doing. And not addressing the fact that this is, you know, too much stress that we need to kind of pull back a bit from the volume.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, wouldn't you guys say that joint pain typically is due to weakness or dysfunction?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, instability.

[Sal DiStefano]

So. So if that's the case, then the reducing volume is going to help with bring down inflammation. The added volume and mobility is hopefully going to address the weakness or instability.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's.

[Sal DiStefano]

And so in a perfect world, I notice joint pain. So reducing volume, okay, that's going to bring down the inflammation. Now what do I put into the workout? Oh, I put movements that are going to support where the weakness is at, and it's typically around some joint. It's normally low back hip area is going to be hip mobility stuff. If it's shoulder like you guys are, it's shoulder mobility type of work. And that's going to not only help bring down the elimination but and also facilitate recovery, but also address where there might be some sort of instability and weakness.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Now here's another key with this. You do the mobility at the beginning of the workout, not at the end. People make this mistake all the time. Now doing it at the end is okay, but it's subpar in comparison to doing in the beginning. Now why, why would I do it in the beginning? Because doing proper mobility at the beginning is going to change how I do the exercises later, which will also contribute. Yes, it'll also contribute to improved stability. So now I'm doing the mobility which is great for stability. And now because I'm getting muscles to fire differently, I'm going to be doing my traditional exercises now are done differently and was also contribute to the mobility itself.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is our philosophy around priming. That's right, is here's an area that your body is not moving, ideally most likely due to the instability weakness prime around the joints before you go into your workout. Therefore, when you go into the workout now, hopefully that joint is moving more optimally. And that's really what that's all about.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally. All right, what about if you just plateaued? Right, I just plateaued. I'm not getting good results. You've already identified you're not over trained, so that's not the issue. Why am I not getting results? Well, it may be time to change a variable.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

In your workout. Now, there's a few different ways to do this. The easy way to do this would be to simply change the tempo of your lifting. And I'm not, I'm not joking. This sounds silly, it sounds stupid, but it's, I like it because it's simple and it's easy and it doesn't require lots of programming knowledge. In other words, you could take your current workout and oh, I'm not, I'm plateauing. What do I do? I could either go lighter and lift faster, which requires a little more skill, or typically most often do slower reps. Do a four second negative train like that for the next three or four weeks and then watch what happens.

[Sal DiStefano]

Would you guys say that the, the more advanced and experienced you are, the more likely the variable or the novelty needs to be different? Meaning, Yes, I find with like a very new beginner and they hit a plateau like this, all I have to do is tweak one of these variables. Tweak tempo or what that somebody like say I was training one of you guys who's very experienced. I would have more success with almost changing all of it. So let's say Justin loves mass performance. He's always trained that. He's complaining to me, oh, I'm at a plateau, Adam. So switching him to something way different than that, drastically different would be, would be the move that, that's going to probably manipulate some of the exercises. It's going to change the tempo, it's going to change the rest period. Set all the above. And that to me, I find, like, this is how, I mean, when I am communicating online to people that ask this, like, say in a dm, I'm going to ask like, hey, what program are you currently following? And then whatever they, whether they're following a Maps program or one of our programs that are like a program, like one of our programs, I'll take in what they're talking and then I'll, I'll send them in a direction that I think is way different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Now here's why that's the case, by the way, for people listening, say, well, why, why is it that for beginners, changing just one variable is good or better when someone's. Whereas when someone's advanced, you change the whole program completely when you're advanced? The learning curve that happens from doing all these different variables is short. It's very short for a beginner. Oh, my God. If I take a beginner and move them from a powerlifting routine to one that's more on athletic performance, there's a massive learning curve that has to happen before we can even train the exercises properly with intensity. Whatever. There's too many variables all at once, which is fine if you find it fun and enjoyable, but actually slows down your progress. If you're looking for consistent progress with the beginner, one variable is enough.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Otherwise you're going to end up throwing too many things because it's super novel.

[Sal DiStefano]

To the beginner tempo. They've never manipulated it. So it's a, it's a massive novel stimulus. The guy like one of you guys who've, who've played with tempo 100 times in your routine, it's, it's novel enough for a workout, but not novel enough to see continue. So then I want to, I want to switch up several things and then I feel like you're going to reap.

[Adam Schaefer]

More benefits and rep ranges is up there as well. But again, I like tempo and rep ranges because it's simple and easy. Yeah. But again, if you're more advanced, change the program. Lastly, unmotivated or bored. Now, I do want to clarify this, that if you get unmotivated and bored after two weeks of working out, like, you got to work on your discipline. Yeah. Okay, like, like this is just you needing a hyper motivation to consistently work out, in which case exercise the muscle of discipline, because this is going to serve you very well on your fitness journey long term. But if you've been working out for a long time or you've been pretty consistent for a while, six months, a year, you're like, God, I'm just, I just, you know, this is just, it's, it's just boring. I don't feel motivated. It's time to switch your goals and your mindset. Now, here's why I say mindset. Switching goals requires a change in mindset. Okay. If you've been powerlifting for a year and at first you loved it, you couldn't wait to go to the gym, it was so fun. Now you're finding yourself going, I don't want to go do this. This is kind of boring. I don't feel like deadlifting squatting and benching, and it's just, just not that great. Yes, switch your goal, but also change your mindset. Because the mindset has to change because you're not going to be deadlifting squatting. You're going to maybe lose strength in those. But now maybe you need to focus on lateral mobility, lateral strength, maybe a little bit on stamina, maybe on unilateral type of work, which requires a completely different mindset. Because if you don't change your mindset, well, you. What you what you may fall into the trap that can sometimes happen is you go into a new training goal or program and you start thinking about all the gains you're losing or, oh, man, my max is going down or whatever.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Kirsten]

I do think this probably applies a little more towards your advanced person just because of that, that, that fact that, like, it's, it's. You're building upon this, this discipline. You're learning how to really get your body to adapt and what to do. Consistency is the ultimate focus in the very beginning. And so if you're at a place where you're a pretty consistent person, you're doing all the right things, but at the same time, you're just like, it's been, it's been drudgery because I've just been focused on the same thing. This is where we can kind of play with a different stimulus.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, how you open this was really important as far as comparing the two types of people here, because we do have, we have a large Audience that follows maps programs. And I do get this quite a bit where somebody and I ask them and they, and they tell me something like, oh yeah, I have like six programs. And then I ask, well which one did you finish last? And like, you know what? I haven't finished any of them all the way through. And they tend to bounce from, you know, program to program to program. That person needs to hear. You need to follow through on it. You need to actually follow it all the way through and, and trust the process and be consistent, reap the benefits from the consistency and trusting good programming. That's total different advice from the person who actually follows through. So that made. That makes a huge difference and who you're speaking to on how you do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally. Hey, I got to talk. You know the active ingredient in happy drops from Organifi Saffron. I've talked about this for a couple times. I just keep reading studies on its effects on depression, anxiety. It's pretty amazing. They even show, they even did a study where they combined it with antidepressants and showed it actually made the antidepressant work better. Oh, with it. But on its own, on its own, it seems to be a serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. So increase the levels of those neurotransmitters. You know, all those neurotransmitters can combined can give your brain kind of this better sense of well being. So it's like one of the best natural compounds that I've seen, you know, and there's a few that are out there. St. John's Wort is one of them. But the data on it is kind of like, it's kind of meager or whatever Saffron. Like seems the study seems so kicks ass when it comes to like lifting mood.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now did you say that it's an adaptogen or does it work like an adaptogen?

[Adam Schaefer]

It may, but it may in a different way. That's a good question.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because. Does. Okay, so. Because I think the first thing that somebody. You hear that and you go like, okay, well that's great. But then does it downregulate and you adapt to it and then you no longer see benefits?

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a good question. I don't know. But the last study that I looked at, I'm looking at one from. I saved it. Looking at one from 2009. Ready for this? It was. So Doug, what is the brand name for. Let me see. It's Fluoxetine. Fluoxetine is a, is an ssri. And I don't remember what the, what the, the brand name is, but it was as effective for mild to moderate depressive disorder with fewer side effects.

[Doug Egge]

Prozac.

[Adam Schaefer]

Prozac. Oh, that's Prozac. So classic Prozac. Thanks. I knew it was that one. Classic Prozac. It was as effective with fewer side effects. And the kicker is Saffron's cheap and inexpensive and so weird when we have.

[Sal DiStefano]

Studies that support that. I mean, is that because, Sal, we also have studies that support the opposite. Like, why would we even continue to prescribe that to people? If this is in these studies, it's showing that Saffron is as good or better.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is that a real question?

[Sal DiStefano]

I know, I know how. Like, I know that the, you know, the drug industry is the biggest gangsters that we have, but so I get the. It's money, motivated, driven. But man, when we have stuff that's showing in studies that it's as good or more effective, and it's natural wild to me that we still would even use that. Or is it because we, like I.

[Kirsten]

Said, the consumer just isn't aware, I'm pretty sure.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is there not. Is there not other studies that show how great the, the Prozac is and others?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's been this. Let's think that's the oldest. I think that was one of the first SSRIs most widely prescribed. It's. You know, it's funny, it reminds me of a. I had a conversation yesterday with some of our, our team and they were asking me why the medical community is so behind on hormone replacement therapy treatments for Paramount perimenopausal and menopausal women. And like, why is it that. Because now we're seeing, like, it makes a big difference. And I know people, like, they went on hormone replacement therapy and it solved life changing. And they're like, why isn't. Why wasn't this, like, studied? Or why. Why is this new? Why isn't. Why isn't there a lot of doctor the studies. Well, here's why. Look at the margins on estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, and look at the margins on SSRIs and enzyolytics. So what they were doing with women, again, if you look at categories of people who are most likely to be prescribed SSRIs and Enzyolytics, it is postmenopausal women. The margins on those drugs are massive. The margins on estrogen, testosterone and progesterone, which are all generic, are tiny. So it makes Sense that the money would go in that direction. And if you go to the doctor and doctors are great. Right. But they're only going to do what they learned and been taught. You're a woman, you go to the doctor and you're like, oh God. It just. I don't know what's happening. Suddenly I'm just feeling not myself. I'm irritable or I feel kind of down or I'm getting all these anxiety symptoms. I don't know what's going on. Doctor's like, let me prescribe you an ssri. Let me prescribe you an Enziolytic. And it kind of does solve the symptoms, but it was coming from these massive hormonal changes which you could go on these hormones, get your hormones balanced and it's less side effects and better for you.

[Kirsten]

Yeah, I don't know who he had on, but it just was so enlightening the fact that we just were so behind with women's health. It's because we just two. Like it's dangerous to, to have women sign up for a lot of these experimental studies, you know, with the reproductive effects of that. And I didn't even dawned on me because like most people that would even sign up for like a study where it's like, you know, you could potentially have some side effects or not. Are all these college age men?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. When you, when you put up, what they do with a lot of these companies do is they'll send out like a bulletin and it'll say looking for willing participants to engage in a study and will pay you $50 a day or what. It's just usually an almost screams teenage boy. It's a bunch of college aged males. Because they're more risk, it's like, okay, cool. They're less risk aver. They're like, yeah, I'll make some money, I'll take some placebo or whatever. Let's see what happens. It's far less women signing up for it. Definitely far less menopausal women that are going to sign up for that. So you just see results that typically apply to men and not necessarily women. And are men and women different, you know, physiologically? Of course.

[Kirsten]

I know.

[Sal DiStefano]

Very crazy. Especially comparing that teenage boy to a perimenopause.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

A little bit different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Absolutely crazy data there. I found a study on hypertrophy, actually a meta analysis on failure training for hypertrophy. This is so cool. Okay. This is so cool. This, it was a meta analysis. Training close to failure is great for hypertrophy. But when it comes to building strength not as necessary. And this is great because strength athletes, Olympic lifters and powerlifters oftentimes train at lower intensities than bodybuilders do. And so what does this say to you? Why, why is training for strength require less intensity than training for hypertrophy? What do you think?

[Sal DiStefano]

Better programming?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I think it's, it's objective.

[Sal DiStefano]

You have to, you have to add weight to the bar and so there's less room for error. You can't, you like bodybuilding, you can get away with whoops too much there. It's not a big deal. And I don't care. The next day I go to bench press and I'm 50 pounds lighter. It doesn't matter.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, see what these studies are actually showing is it does contribute more to muscle growth. So I think bodybuilders have it right for the most part. But I think it's because people don't realize that strength is as much of a skill.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

As it is bigger muscles. So a power lifter who could practice bench pressing three days a week at a lower intensity is going to bench press more than a power lifter who trains almost a failure once a week might get bigger muscles.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's fair.

[Adam Schaefer]

But isn't going to bench as much. It's the skill aspect of it. Yeah, I think that's, that's kind of what's happening. Kind of cool though, right? Yeah, I think people listening. The takeaway from this is to play with both.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Increase your frequency, drop the intensity.

[Sal DiStefano]

Unfortunately, I don't think that's what'll be received though from everyone's gonna be a hard. Yes. I think that's the problem with that study is that that's going to lead. But I mean I find that. And again I was guilty of this because of studies like that. I go, oh, it's great for hypertrophy. Well, that's what I care about is building muscle. So I'm going to train to failure all the time. I think most people that are fitness enthusiasts, people that train consistently overdo the failure training. I, I think that you can train, never train to failure and build an incredible physique. I think you can long term better. I think you can get strong, I think you can build a great physique and never have trained to failure. It doesn't mean that I don't think failure has its place. I just think again back to like the nitrous analogy. It's just so easy to overdo it and over apply it. The average person who doesn't know anything about engines are most likely going to blow their engine.

[Kirsten]

I thought. Yeah, I thought you're going to bring up like some kind of discrepancies of like this exercise sel in comparison, you know, with your strength versus, like your hypertrophy focus.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no, but I will say this too.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, it's hypertrophy. Guys don't pick good exercises.

[Kirsten]

Lame exercises is what I'm saying.

[Adam Schaefer]

Side press. Cool. That's a failure. No, no, I think, I think, you know, what's important to bring this all together is that studies on strength training are never two years or three years long. They just don't do studies like that. They're at the most two months, three months long. Is getting stronger because your technique is better. Does that contribute to more muscle growth in the long term? Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think it's important to train for all of it, even if your goal is simply hypertrophy. I think in a year or two or three, the biggest muscles are going to go to the person who trains both for hypertrophy closer to failure, but also has those cycles of training skill and technique. Like a. Like a strength athlete for strength. Yeah, I think they're both important for that. And that's the thing about these studies that you have to be.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kirsten]

You know, very parcel that out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, very kind of.

[Sal DiStefano]

I saw that you shared something that I brought this up on the podcast a long time ago. I don't remember how long ago when I first saw this news and I saw you brought it up today. And I'm God admit I'm really, really excited about the Enhanced Games.

[Kirsten]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

I just. I just did.

[Adam Schaefer]

We.

[Kirsten]

We first speculated it before. It was a thing. I just like, it'd be cool if they just like went all in.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, I bad to say this, I guess. I don't know. I've always thought that let him cut them loose. Cut them loose. Just like I think in. In regular sports.

[Kirsten]

I mean, look what it did for baseball.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Kirsten]

It was uninteresting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Kirsten]

And then all of a sudden it's super interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Doug, I'm going to send you a picture of Australian swimmer, like a bodybuilder, James Magnuson. He competed in the Olympics and now he's competing in the Enhanced Games.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now what's interesting about.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want you to see his before and after.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I know you're going to bring up an extreme example, but I bet you. Okay, here's my. Let's. Let's have some predictions on this because I actually And I think it's going to be a great experiment. No doubt steroids give you a huge advantage, but in sports.

[Kirsten]

Look at his wisher, Brad.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh my God. Looks way different.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, he does look way different. Any idea what his times are before and after?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, they're already talking about it. They're already, these enhanced athletes are going and they're competing in these little pre games and they're already breaking world records.

[Sal DiStefano]

Really?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wow. Really?

[Adam Schaefer]

They're shattering world records.

[Kirsten]

And what's happening bigger, he's like got more mass to contend with.

[Adam Schaefer]

So what happens is.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because you would think some of that is.

[Kirsten]

Yeah, I don't know if he had an advantage.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no, no, he's still training like.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because muscle sinks, bro. It ain't helping you skim across the water.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's not this. Listen, that physique that you see on the right is not because he went and started bodybuilding. He's training like he did before. The only difference, the only difference is enhanced. Yes. By the way, that's not saying that Olympic athletes don't enhance themselves, but they can't go too far because.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, they can't. They can't be a complete lab experiment.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, these guys are like, they're going into it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, hook me up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Test me.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, test me. Hook me up. Do whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's what he's taking. He said like, is there no limits?

[Kirsten]

Like, no. Like all the things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Nothing.

[Kirsten]

Like he could literally just keep like.

[Sal DiStefano]

Every peptide, everything, take every growth hormone, like.

[Adam Schaefer]

So here's what he's on.

[Sal DiStefano]

Let's go.

[Adam Schaefer]

So he says, I feel like I'm 18 again. And what he's on is he's on testosterone and he's all on peptides. BPC 157, CJC 1295 and ipomorulin. So testosterone and growth hormone releasing peptides.

[Sal DiStefano]

And I bet you he's actually not on a crazy testosterone dose.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, no, too much would make him slow.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's what I mean. That's why I think this is a line. Interesting because there is a line. It's not just like the more steroids you take, the faster and better you're gonna be at everything. Like there's a, there's definitely a bell curve here of where it's like, absolutely.

[Kirsten]

It helps impeding on performance and skill.

[Adam Schaefer]

So here are the events that they're doing that I know about. I think it's only these events I know. It's swimming events and track events and weightlifting. Which one do you think.

[Kirsten]

It'S gonna be amazing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, the weightlifting. I can't wait to see Olympics.

[Sal DiStefano]

So wait, can we get some dates and details on this? Like when is this going down?

[Adam Schaefer]

It's happening in Vegas, by the way.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, in 2026. May 21st through the 24th of 2026.

[Justin Andrews]

May.

[Adam Schaefer]

And yet next year.

[Sal DiStefano]

Next year I was like, holy crap. What? Okay, okay, so we still got a year.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want to go.

[Sal DiStefano]

I would be down.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want to go to this.

[Sal DiStefano]

We should go.

[Kirsten]

Just.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, we should absolutely go.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want to see what happens when you take.

[Sal DiStefano]

I want to know if Transcend is sponsoring this. They should absolutely be like a major sponsor.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh my God. Dude. I think if you're one of these athletes and you're just all the peptide. Yeah, dude. Like you should. They should tape the name of the now.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay. I guess if it's just swimming, weightlifting. And would you say.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think so, yes.

[Doug Egge]

Track and field. Yeah, that's it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is that it? Well now track and field is a lot of things though, right?

[Doug Egge]

Well, they have the 100 meter sprint and the 110 meter hurdle.

[Sal DiStefano]

So not a lot. So not a lot of events.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So, okay, let me ask you guys, any predictions?

[Adam Schaefer]

Look up all the events. I want us to guess which one is going to have the biggest impact.

[Doug Egge]

Okay, so they're swimming, 50 meter, 100 meter freestyle, that's a freestyle. And then 50 meter and 100 meter butterfly. Okay, that's it for swimming.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[Doug Egge]

Then for track and field, 100 meter sprint, 100 meter or 110 meter hurdles. And that's it for track and field and for weightlifting, snatch, clean and jerk.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's it. I got you. I already know which one's gonna. I know which ones are gonna have the biggest like record breaking. Okay. All the short distances for swimming and track. Not hurdles. Yeah, just the short stuff.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's everything. I think we should pick obviously of all of them. Yes. I think swimming will be the least.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would. I think you're right. I think swimming, I think because you have water drafts.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

So technical.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, it is the.

[Adam Schaefer]

I agree.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think it's one of the more technical ones. It is also the like least advantageous to be super muscular. So being way, way more muscular now. Granted. Yeah. Well, they're all taking that. That's going to be helpful for training. Right. Recovery and that's where it's an advantage. But I think we'll see. I think we'll see the least impressive. Like they're all going to probably break records, but we'll See, the least impressive record breaking in swimming is my guess.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. So I would say the most impressive, I would say would be the, the clean and jerk. I think that's probably going to have the biggest impact. Now here's the other thing though. Keep in mind here you're going to have swimmers competing the enhanced games and they're going to be trying to break records set by people like Michael Phelps.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Michael Phelps was a genetic phenom.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

So to get a guy who couldn't even be, let's say was the top.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's what I'm saying.

[Adam Schaefer]

Suddenly break. That'd be a big deal.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is my, my point that I'm making is that's why I think this is going to be an interesting experiment.

[Kirsten]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is we talk about all the time about genetics still trumps everything. Oh yeah. The most ideal primo body for swimming is still a better advantage than the average Joe who wants to take a bunch of course drugs. So it will be interesting if they can even beat his times.

[Kirsten]

So know what kind of. So is it all like athletes that used to be like top tier athletes that are now like oh yeah, coming out of retirement?

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, they have to be Justin. Because they wouldn't even. Because to this point we're making right now, that's, that's average dude would not even come close to touching Michael.

[Adam Schaefer]

You get a state, you could juice.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm a good swimmer. You could juice me out of my mind, trade me for a year and I wouldn't come close to touching his stuff.

[Kirsten]

Y. But I mean, I know like as this evolves and becomes a staple and an option, you know, and it gets more money involved. Be interesting to see if people actually started their career, oh early, earlier and going in the enhanced route versus you know, trying to go legit years. Well, crossing over.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's the problem. Well, first off, the prize money is a million dollars.

[Kirsten]

See that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's significant dollars. And a swimmer, a track athlete and an Olympic lifter.

[Sal DiStefano]

Where do they just.

[Kirsten]

You're not going to get the prestige.

[Adam Schaefer]

You don't make no money in those.

[Kirsten]

Isn't this a lot like the liv and then the golf like in terms of like. Well, just the money.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, here's the deal.

[Sal DiStefano]

Who's the organization putting this on?

[Adam Schaefer]

So I know Trump is one of the investors.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh. Investor. But who's put. Who's the organization?

[Doug Egge]

No, it's called enhanced. That's it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Just call it out. Come watch. Steroids.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Well, it's got. It has not for kids. It has to be retired athletes because I bet you quality, you know, competing in this disqualifies you for the.

[Kirsten]

I know that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

They'll never let you in.

[Kirsten]

Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Kirsten]

But that, but I guess what I'm looking at with that is, is when they start comparing times and I think this is great experiment too to show how genetics are superior.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's why I think it's going to be a cool thing to watch. It's going to be really interesting to see.

[Kirsten]

I think he's combo the two.

[Sal DiStefano]

I won't be surprised if we don't see any of these records being broken. If another Michael Phelps, I will be surprised. I would not be surprised by that. I'll be more surprised if these guys break the genetic anomalies records in Olympics. I really don't. I think that's what's gonna become the neatest part about all.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean let me ask you guys this.

[Kirsten]

Yeah. If you have high expectations, I guarantee.

[Adam Schaefer]

You would it top. Would a top 10 athlete in the world. Let's say you're ninth, you're ninth in the world. You compete in the Olympics, you get ninth. Would gearing the hell out of that person.

[Sal DiStefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Get them to first?

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I don't think so.

[Adam Schaefer]

Maybe.

[Sal DiStefano]

Probably. I don't think so.

[Adam Schaefer]

Probably not. You probably get top three.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, maybe, maybe top five. Maybe you jump a few spots. But I don't think it makes you the best.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, you're right.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I agree. I think, I think maybe, maybe if you're one and two and you're number two and you're close now you're doing and you. And you push. Maybe you, maybe you edge out there. You're not, you're not going from 10 to the greatest by.

[Adam Schaefer]

What happened to Ben? Remember Ben Johnson?

[Kirsten]

I was just seeing a Ben Johnson.

[Adam Schaefer]

What was he before he won gold and then got caught taking.

[Sal DiStefano]

I thought he was already crushing it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't think he was first Carl.

[Kirsten]

Lewis right in that one. They got it revoked.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wasn't he the same guy who the BALCO guy that helped him too. There's a whole documentary on him.

[Kirsten]

But there's speculation that a lot of them, a lot of the sprinters that, that didn't get initially popped like they found out later.

[Adam Schaefer]

By the way. They were smart at the, at the events they picked. You know, they picked the events that they thought the steroids would impact the most because you do distance, you do things that's super technical. You're not going to have that big like if it's Long distance.

[Sal DiStefano]

I wonder, do you think that's what they did?

[Kirsten]

I mean, that's sprinting.

[Sal DiStefano]

Are these, are these the founders?

[Doug Egge]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. Look at those guys.

[Kirsten]

Yeah. Short distance sprinting, definitely.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, he's, he's. Oh, these are investors.

[Doug Egge]

Those are investors.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

These aren't necessarily the founders.

[Adam Schaefer]

Whoever's going to be running.

[Sal DiStefano]

Who are they? Yeah, who, who, like, who came up with the idea?

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. I mean, it's, it's a smart idea. I wish I came up with it because everyone's going to want to watch it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, I would imagine. I don't think it's a unique idea as much as it is. Like how you got this to pass and be allowed.

[Kirsten]

How do you not get. Yeah, it's shut down.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think, I think all of us at one point thought, you know, be cool. What kid didn't think of that?

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm sure, I'm sure.

[Kirsten]

The only baseball, steroid, basketball, football. Let's go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Keep in mind, it's in Vegas that they approve pretty much everything. Yeah. If you're gonna get it approved anywhere.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's true.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's gonna be the place that has legal prostitutions.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, pretty sure. Yeah. No, this will be. I'm super curious and I, I think, here's why. It will die. It'll die if it, if it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I think these guys don't do anything.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes. I mean, how boring is that going to be? All enhanced. They can't even beat the event. Yes.

[Kirsten]

I mean, it might. Honestly. I bet you it will.

[Sal DiStefano]

I would not be surprised. So don't be surprised.

[Kirsten]

People are going to have way higher expectations.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what makes.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think so too.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what they've shown to make the biggest impact on swimming are these suits that they had to ban. Do you remember those suits that they were wearing?

[Kirsten]

Streamlined ones.

[Adam Schaefer]

They had to ban those because they were such a technological advantage.

[Kirsten]

Zero friction.

[Sal DiStefano]

Remember that one TED Talk we watched? The evolution of sports is mostly all that. Even like the, the way the pool is designed, where the water flows over. That made one of the biggest differences in the speed, all the records being broken. Once they had the wife.

[Kirsten]

So they're wearing the little shower cap.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. All those things make a, make a bigger difference. So there, where they, where this thing keeps going or like what it'll try is the way the athletes look. Of course that is because it's gonna be marketable. Yes, it's very marketable. It looks cool, but.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Because I've never seen a swimmer look.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like, but how lame is it gonna be though when these, like, crazy looking bodies don't outperform all the Olympic records? I bet you that happens.

[Adam Schaefer]

Actually, you know, this is great to see.

[Kirsten]

It'd be cool to bet on it.

[Sal DiStefano]

It would be cool to bet on that because I think a lot of people are going to assume that they have this massive advantage. And it's like they do have an.

[Adam Schaefer]

Advantage, but it doesn't trump genetics, technique and training. Yeah, that's for sure.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, I got an event for you guys that apparently is somewhat going viral. Margaret brought it up to me yesterday in my meeting. She does our customer service. She does a great job.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's an event.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's. It's like this. Yes. It's kind of like an event that people are signing up for. And it's called the hot girl walk.

[Sal DiStefano]

Have you guys heard of the Hot girl.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm like imagining this Hot Girl walk is what it's called.

[Kirsten]

And by the way, stick your butt out and wiggle it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's what it is. It's, it's, it's, it's called. It's Hot Girl walk dot com. And it's. So it's a, it's what is the hot Girl walk? Here's what it says.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

A hot girl walk is a four mile walk where you think about three things. So you can sign up for this for four miles and you walk. This is a real thing is what it is. Okay. By the way, I'm just gonna say this ahead of time. This really strongly highlights the difference between men and women. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. So here's what you do. The first, for the first mile, you think about the things you're grateful for. So you just walk for a mile. You know, for the first part of that, think about the things you're grateful for. Then you think about your goals and how you're gonna achieve them. Okay. And then finally you think about how hot you are.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is that really what it is? Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's three things.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Who man came up with.

[Adam Schaefer]

And people are. It's going all over the place. It's going, it's going. It's like all over the news. And you can sign up and find out. Thing I've ever heard. Well, that's because you're a guy dude, by the way, that.

[Kirsten]

And that gets people to do four miles.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, okay, so here's where I like to highlight the difference between men and women, which I think is great. I think it is motivating for a woman to do those things. And at the end, think about how hot she is or how great she. I think that helps for a guy. Let me just tell you what this would look like. The first two things would be the same. Think about what. Your gratitude, your goals. The last part would be think about what a piece of crap you are and how weak you are. That would be the motivator. You were a pussy.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm always so curious how something like how this takes off. Like who, who's who decided this would be a thing. And then how did you get a big community behind this?

[Kirsten]

Yeah, dude, I thought this was some weird catwalk thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, that's right.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's what I thought that was like a reel, like a 30 second. So they have throw hair and shake your butt like they're in Miami, New.

[Adam Schaefer]

York City, la, Nashville, Los Angeles, la.

[Kirsten]

London, Booty pops and then you're done, you know?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, dude. So anyway, I thought that was.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean I. We can hate on it, but it's like not a bad thing.

[Kirsten]

No, I get some walking.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean I'm, I'm. I'm pro gratitude, you know, I'm pro walking, I'm pro confidence. So I mean, I guess it's all.

[Kirsten]

It just goes like.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kirsten]

Way over.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, Justin, I want you to think about how hot you are. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. You should try a hot guy walk and see if that goes. See if we get that trendy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, some guys would sign up, but it would be straight guys.

[Kirsten]

Damn.

[Adam Schaefer]

Look at me, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, are the, are the, are the alpha guy group still going like crazy? Is that still or is that losing its luster? I feel like I haven't seen any. I feel like we peaked.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think drill sergeants like alpha, Alpha. I would love to see the enrollment on those.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I think they're dropping and I think what's happening. Because the data people know how stupid they are. Well, I think here's what. Okay, it's my speculation because what you saw for a second was that. And now we have data on young men and the direction that they're going in the trending and where they're trending is actually towards faith. They're going towards faith. They're going to Catholic religion, orthodox. They're going to non denominational. And I think what happened for a while is men felt lost. I think they still do. I think they were told that they were toxic. I think they were told that they're worthless, that, you know, whatever. And so guys were looking for something, and you had a lot of these sharks on social media. They're like, come to my event in the woods where we scream at you and tell you how to be tough. And I think some guys went to that, like, this is not it. I mean, so they're going to.

[Kirsten]

There was a cool thing I had. Somebody broke down too recently. I remember we had talked about this a while ago. Even Shia LaBeouf, whatever, went through this whole thing of spiritual discovery. But there was like a Latin mass that became popular.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Kirsten]

And it's because. And he was explaining it more from a right brain, left brain perspective. We do. Everything is left brain. Everything is geared towards left brain. You become. You. You want to control and kind of steer. And. And once they translated from Latin to bring it over, it lost a bit of its mystery and its, Its presence.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's no.

[Sal DiStefano]

I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna challenge your thinking. I don't agree. I think there's two major things that's going on from your perspective. I think you're in your own bubble. So that is what you are reading content wise 24 7. And then I'm going to address your data.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

And then that has been on such a downward spiral for so long that any sort of uptick looks like a revolution.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, it is.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's been. It's been, bro. It's been true.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you look back, you're right.

[Sal DiStefano]

And. And that where it's at right now is 40 years ago.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, you're right.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's like. No, you're like, that's not a revolution. No, it's just like, it just hit bottom.

[Kirsten]

I think you got hit with so much artificial propaganda.

[Adam Schaefer]

Correct. You're right, Adam. But that's exactly why they're saying that this is unprecedented. Because for decades and decades and decades, men have, especially men have been dropping out of faith in churches for decades. And this is the first time we've seen, and I don't know how many decades I got to look at the data where it's reversing, and it's reversing in young men, which is typically the demographic that is the worst. Typically, if you see men start to go reach the faith, it is men who are middle aged, who've had children. But what we're seeing now for the first time in decades, is a reversal in young men. And I think it's connected. I think Covid did it. I think this, like, this assault on, like You're a guy. Masculinity's toxic.

[Sal DiStefano]

And this, that and the other. I think the pendulum swung so far that it had to come back. We went so far the opposite direction and it went so far down.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

That it's, it's bottomed out and you're seeing a slight reversal. And that slight reversal seems so impactful because it is, in comparison, correct to the last 20 years. But it's really nothing that especially more than.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's more than 20 years.

[Kirsten]

Tension game.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's more than 20 years. It's decades and decades and yeah, decades.

[Sal DiStefano]

And decades are going down.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I mean, it's like you're at one point as a society, we were already here. We came all the way here and you're like touting where we're at. Right, right here. We're like, we're like. Well, we're nowhere near where, where we were.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, not at all. But you know, every expert on the sub, nobody would have predicted a reversal. Every prediction was it's going to keep going down until it becomes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, come on. I would. I predicted that. I've said our time on this podcast, if we swing left to right, swing hard, and we've gone so far to the point where we are saying masculinity was toxic and evil and bad and, and like we were, we were, we were totally praising the opposite. And it's just. I couldn't imagine it getting more extreme. We were that far and so it had to come back.

[Adam Schaefer]

I could have imagined it getting more.

[Sal DiStefano]

What I'm worried about is that what you think is this huge revival is just that we hit bottom and before it's going to swing so hard the other direction that we have to come back again before we even get any sort of climbing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I don't know if this is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Anywhere historically that seems to be what happens. But since the modernization of society, it's only gone down. It's only only gone down. Especially the youth. It's only gone down for a long time.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, but don't.

[Kirsten]

Wouldn't you have predict religious grifters are going to start coming in, bro. Dude, it's trendy. I sent attention right now.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's like I sent you guys this.

[Kirsten]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm not going to say the company because I'm like, they're not sponsoring us. I'm not giving a free commercial. But there's a pre workout supplement. I sent it to you guys and it's like a faith based pre workout.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is what this is what I'm worried about. I'm worried. Worried that we. We. We've gone down, down, down, down. We're in. We're in an upward trend to your point. But that it's gonna swing so hard so fast that it'll get countered with fakes. Yes. And then it. It will. It'll take something because it becomes cool. That is potentially a good, positive movement in young men. And then turn it in. Like, the very next generation will be going the other direction again because it swung so much.

[Kirsten]

I know. It's. It's. It's really weird for me, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm.

[Kirsten]

Be honest. Like, I've been in this game a long time, and like. Like, Ned Flanders was, like, a standard. Like, this was like the guy everybody shits on. Ned Flanders. I did not want to be Ned Flanders, you know? Like, I'd. I'd hide when people from church saw me at school, you know, because, like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not. I'm not like that guy, you know?

[Adam Schaefer]

But.

[Kirsten]

But now it's. It's. It's the opposite. It's so. To me, it's just. It's interesting to watch culture go through this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, it's fast now, dude. It's so.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's cool now.

[Kirsten]

Like, what?

[Sal DiStefano]

It's so. It's so fast. And it reminds me when I brought up the whole T thing that I saw so fast, it's just like, whoa. We just went, like, so hard one direction. Then all of a sudden, now I'm seeing. I mean, shows take a while to make and produce and push through. So to see it go from there to there that fast, like, damn, that was quick. So I. I'm. Now I'm more worried that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Are you. Are you saying. Are you thinking this, Adam, that rather than marketers or Hollywood or whatever, content producers, like you said, like, on Netflix, you were talking about some shows that have switched so quickly, and you're right. They take a long time to make.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you think rather than reading the trends and responding, they're creating them?

[Sal DiStefano]

I would not be surprised.

[Adam Schaefer]

Some of them.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, how do you not question that? To my point.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, you're right.

[Sal DiStefano]

That.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I definitely.

[Sal DiStefano]

All of a sudden. All of a sudden, there's a little bit of movement to write, and we already got movies ready to go. Like, that's crazy, because you know how long it takes to produce a movie. That's not like an overnight. Yeah, it takes a long time. So years ago, would you Even think that some of these movies and shows that are getting highlighted right now would even be getting highlighted? No, I would think that would take another couple years for us to kind of wake up and. Okay, now the trend's moving. Okay, let's start making movies in this direction. But no, we were like, movies were out. I was like, whoa, wait a second. That was a little quick right there, you know, at least enough to make me go, that's interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I know when I see, like, Eminem and Bruno Mars coming out with.

[Sal DiStefano]

A song, bro, is that real?

[Adam Schaefer]

That's.

[Sal DiStefano]

Can we fact check that, Doug? Because I don't believe that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, and it's supposed to be released tomorrow.

[Sal DiStefano]

Eminem is making a worship song song.

[Adam Schaefer]

Get with Bruno.

[Sal DiStefano]

I don't believe this is fake news.

[Adam Schaefer]

Come on.

[Sal DiStefano]

Make sure you confirm this, Doug. Yeah, because I just don't believe that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bruno Mars, Eminem worship song.

[Sal DiStefano]

I don't know. Bruno Mars.

[Kirsten]

Is that on my bingo card, dude?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, that was not on the bingo card, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know that.

[Kirsten]

Unreal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Does that make your. Your. Your conspiracy cackles shake or whatever?

[Kirsten]

Oh, big time.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, I don't. So I don't know where. I don't know. Like, I've never really.

[Adam Schaefer]

Eminem, Definitely.

[Kirsten]

I mean, I look at it, too, like, in that whole movie music world and especially the rap world and everything else, like, you don't want to be associated with what's going on right now in trial with. With Captain P. Diddy, you know? So I. I mean, it could just be a move where it's like I'm disassociating myself.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I'm having a hard time, too, figuring out what's true about that, too, because there's a bunch of stuff going viral of people speaking on these in trial and said they're not. It's not real. It's like, what. What? You know, you wonder if they're just going to inundate us with so much fake news around there.

[Kirsten]

So much villainizing and scapegoating. And, I mean, it's weird. Like, if you listen. And I don't necessarily listen to Candace Owens a lot, but, like, I. She's really big into all this stuff. And even, like, went over the whole Weinstein stuff and how, like, most of it was not even factual, but, like, a lot of the abuse and stuff was. Or like, he's like, a womanizer, but he wasn't. But he wasn't rapist. And then she was going through all the. The facts in the trial and how it all Got dismissed.

[Adam Schaefer]

But.

[Kirsten]

But it's like public perception is still that.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I imagine. I don't know anything that she's talking about, but I would imagine that her philosophy or theory around P. Diddy is that there's something much bigger. Greater than him orchestrating all this and he's the fall guy?

[Kirsten]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Kirsten]

A lot of the other.

[Adam Schaefer]

There it is.

[Kirsten]

Executives, you don't hear about them.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow, there it is. Eminem dropped a gospel rap song.

[Kirsten]

Wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. This is.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is that a legitimate source right there?

[Doug Egge]

No, I. I was searching all these different posts and I couldn't really find anything.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So I could send it to you, Adam, but it's supposed to be released.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, you saw. You showed me the thing. But I. Again, I don't believe anything I see on the Internet now. Just face value. I feel like I need to cross reference it eight times before I talk about it because it's like, I don't know how many times I've been wrong.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Come on. That looks fake. That looks AI to me, bro. I know.

[Doug Egge]

I think there is some suggestion it may be AI.

[Kirsten]

My head's gonna explode, you guys. I really think that, like the. The board, like 2019, you know, seems.

[Doug Egge]

To be 100 AI.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, well, you know, it does look like AI.

[Doug Egge]

You know, that's the comments.

[Adam Schaefer]

Next. Next time we come in, we'll confirm it. So we'll let everybody know because it's supposed to be released tomorrow. But you know the thing with P. Diddy, Justin, what makes me think is like, remember the banking crisis and nobody went to jail, nobody got busted because what do they call it? Too big to fail.

[Kirsten]

Too big. Yeah. Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. You know, someone like P.D. p. Diddy, it may just be that so many people are implicated, so many powerful people are implicated that they. Nobody gets. Maybe, maybe he's the fall guy.

[Kirsten]

Him. Like, they're. They're already thinking he might get away with the truck because they're not charging him with the wrong with the right thing with their charging sex trafficking, which is not, you know, they can't prove. They can't prove that, but they could prove that he had abuse with his.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Then he had baby oil parties.

[Kirsten]

But all these stories, it just. I can't even conjure that in my mind, like, what they're talking about. Just like what.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know, dude. Yeah, I know. It's wild. Anyway, I got some information on GHKCU and skin. So I was looking up. So GHKCU for people that know is a peptide. That I mean, radically accelerates collagen production.

[Sal DiStefano]

Amazing.

[Adam Schaefer]

In the skin. Skin, okay. Topically you get a 70 increase is what the studies show in collagen production. Collagen is what makes your skin look firm, reduces wrinkles, essentially will make your skin look younger. And I was looking up because you see companies trying now are selling face creams and stuff with GHKCU. Most of them have 0.1%.

[Kirsten]

That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Luminos.

[Kirsten]

Is it really in there?

[Adam Schaefer]

Luminos has the highest percentage you'll find, period, end of story. It's expensive, but it's got the highest percent. By the way, aren't they offering a discount?

[Doug Egge]

Yes, they are.

[Sal DiStefano]

You gotta feel so bad for the consumer who's, you know, hearing this stuff, shopping. And then it's just like. I mean, I think of like red light. You saw this. You. Anything that that is actually really works and gets a lot of traction, gets the studies behind it and it starts flying. Then here come all the charlatans that make pixie dust. The. We saw same thing in the CBD market. Right? Which one? All the good. All the good studies started coming out. CBD now CBD soaps. There was CBD and everything, you know, just like, oh, man. Way to just really ruin it for everybody, you know, because you take that and then you. You hear on some podcasts, oh, I heard so great. And it's like I didn't feel anything from that. That's what's going to happen with the. I think this also.

[Adam Schaefer]

No. Luminos has a significant. It's the highest percentage you can find of GHKCU. It's 20 off right now, which is good because it is expensive. But it's got all the GHKC unit.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think that's real.

[Adam Schaefer]

GHKC was not cheap.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, no, and normally things like that, like red light, those types of things are expensive. It's. If it's the real deal and you pay for what you get. Because I think those types of things, you notice it right away if you use that cream. You'll see, you'll see.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, within two applications.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, you'll. You'll see a difference right away.

[Adam Schaefer]

A good probiotic will help your skin, your digestion, might even help your mood. That's what the data shows. Oh, by the way, we now have studies showing it improves athletic performance. But some probiotics are just not that good. That's not true for seed. Seed is the world's best probiotic. Go check them out. See for yourself. Go to seed.com mindpump use the code 25. Mindpump pump. Get 25 off back to the show.

[Doug Egge]

Our first caller is Lee from California.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's up, Lee?

[Sal DiStefano]

How you doing, Lee?

[Kirsten]

What's happening?

[F]

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my question. Really appreciate it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it, dude. How can we help you?

[F]

Yeah, so my question's around programming, you know, with kids and schedules and stress and nighttime routines and wipes and birthdays and all that stuff. Sometimes I have more time than others to get a workout done. So oftentimes I can get my 45 minute, you know, 75 minute workout in. But then there's days where I really only have time for more of like a map stick team protocol. So, you know, right now I'm trying to get to performance. So, you know, there's weeks where I'll, I'll, I'll get through like one or two weeks of performance and then the schedule changes and, and you know, I need to jump to like something more like a, like a 15. Like my question is, is that okay, like, should I jump to Maps 15? Can I break up, you know, a couple exercises within performance? And these go for all the other programs, anabolic and powerless, you know, kind of. What are your thoughts around that?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you're totally fine. So there are a few what I would say. And of course there's always, you know, I have to say this because there's always, you know, individual variants. I get this. But, but there are acceptable and even I would say incur like reasons that I would encourage someone to program hop. One of them is, are you over training? Do you have an injury? Is the programming starting to hurt you in some way? The other one would be time. So now that's a very like, valid reason to hop. Like, I don't have enough time. Should I do nothing? Because what ends up happening is somebody says, well, I have this program, I can't go to the gym for an hour. Maybe I could do Mass 15, but I shouldn't program him up. So I'm just gonna skip the workout. Like that's a worse option Now. Now the reason that sometimes people program hop that I would say is unacceptable or not encouraged. Yeah, I'm bored.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I'm bored. I need something different.

[Adam Schaefer]

I need, I need to change it up all the time because I like to, you know, change things up, in which case you're compromising the programming and that typically leads down a path of poor workout programming. Okay, so in other words, the reasons I listed in the beginning, you know, injury over train. You know, you have other priorities in life because you're. Yeah, it's like life. Excuse me, like time issues, like changing the programming there is appropriate and encouraged. I would tell you as your trainer to do exactly that. If you came to me and said, hey man, I don't, I don't, I don't got a full hour to work out, you know, what do I do? I would 100 move you to like a maps 15 protocol.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'd say probably most of us, I mean, maybe excluding Sal because he's a little more consistent and ritual with his times, probably work out like this. I'd imagine the other guys, or I, at least I do, I might be running like an anabolic type of protocol for a month straight and then just busy the the following month. And so it just makes sense that Maps 15 is, is more conducive for my schedule. And so, yeah, I, I think so. I think this is a very realistic. But Sal's point I think is valid because when we have people that hot programs, a lot of it is because they, they're bored and they want to move to the next thing and they need that novelty all the time of something new. And it's like, well, if that's the reasons why you're doing it, you're missing out on reaping the max benefits. And it is always, you know, ideal to run a program straight through. I mean, it's programmed with that intent. Right, but. And you, you're. But we're splitting hairs on, you know, how much gains am I losing by doing that. And the option is, normally the other option is to not do it at all because you can't do exactly your program. That's a worse option. So you're better off doing what you're doing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it maps 15 or mass 15 performance that you have? 15? Yeah. Why don't we send you performance too so you have more. You, you have another program with that kind of programming, that kind of workout timing and scheduling. Yeah, because, you know, you're mentioning your, your, your time issues this way. You have another program with different workout programming, different exercise setups and so on, so on that you can reach into. Because I love those two programs specifically for what you're saying.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[F]

You know, the 15 keeps me motivated when I can't get the full workout in and I'm kind of subscribing to the something's better than nothing protocol. My question though. Let's say I do anabolic or the full performance and I get, you know, through phase one or even through phase one and two. And then the schedule changes and I need to hop to the 15 protocol for however long. Would you jump back in where I left off? Would I restart the program from the beginning?

[Adam Schaefer]

You mean the Maps 15 program?

[Kirsten]

No, no.

[F]

Or something.

[G]

Would I.

[F]

And then I go through. Let's say I go through four weeks of maps 15. Would I start anabolic where I left off or would I just start from the beginning?

[Adam Schaefer]

I would start from the beginning. But if it was like a week.

[Kirsten]

Yeah, a week or maybe even two. But yeah, otherwise I would probably jump out.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, straight up though, we're splitting hairs now. Yeah, yeah, now we're really starting to split hairs. But I would say four to six weeks is when you probably want to start over. Over.

[F]

Sure, sure. All right.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's great.

[F]

I really appreciate the advice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you got it, man. I like your shirt too.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, thanks for calling in.

[G]

Thanks so much.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So. So just getting a little deeper on this. You know, when programming a workout, there are a lot of components that make it a good programming. One of the components is the entirety of it. Right. So when we write a program that's three months long, it all works together as one program and that's going to be the most effective way to use it. However, if in the middle of it you're like, I'm over trained or I'm getting poor sleep or I injured myself, guess what, that program is no longer ideal for you. So then moving to something that's going to be more ideal for your current situation is going to be better for both your results and I mean everything else, injury prevention and so on. And then time is the other one because people fall into this, this, this, you know, problem. It's very common. It's like, man, I can't do the full work. I guess I'm not working out today. Which that's not good. Now, he did say something like, like something is better than nothing. That's generally true, but not always true. Sometimes what people do with that is they say, well, I only have 20 minutes. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to beat the crap out of myself and get the most out of this 20 minutes, in which case that was not better.

[Kirsten]

Yeah. And if you've been teetering on over training, you know, your body could use the rest and you're going to actually do better.

[Sal DiStefano]

So now are you guys more likely to be following like a map anabolic program because you currently have time and then drop down to 15 because you have a busy week or. Yeah, or a busy week or do the reverse. I'm going to follow more of a Maps 15 protocol and then when I have more time, add volume to.

[Kirsten]

Yeah, what you said the second.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's how I am now. So when I was younger it'd probably be the other way around. It would be I'm always doing the most I can, when I can and then when I can't, it's like trying. Yeah.

[Kirsten]

When I have those open moments, I'm like, oh, cool, I'm gonna do a full on workout.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's probably better. You guys are probably saying long term is probably great.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think that's a better strat and I think that's how I approach it today. That's why I wanted to bring it up. Versus how I probably would have approached totally different before. Because there's also the option with the way map 15 is written is you could, you could group those together.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I would be running more of a Maps 15 protocol. And then, hey, when I have these weeks at a time where it's like, oh, wow, I'm freeing up or I'm feeling really good, hey, I'm gonna stack those workouts together. It's probably how I would lean into it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Honestly, what you're saying is just generally speaking, long term, you look at the long, you know, the big picture, that's a great way for people to work out for, for just currently, for. What I'm doing right now is I'm trying to limit the amount of time I'm actually lifting weights, but that's a different thing. And that's another thing that people need to consider. There's always individual variances and there's a lot of things that you have to consider. And your workout is not your life. Your workout is designed to improve your life. So you have to think of it that way. So how's this going to improve my life versus how do I organize my life just to live for this workout? That's where the fanaticism can start to take hold and a healthy workout becomes unhealthy.

[Doug Egge]

Our next caller is Matthew from Indiana.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's up, Matthew?

[G]

You.

[Kirsten]

What's happening, dude?

[Sal DiStefano]

Good.

[Adam Schaefer]

How are you guys?

[Sal DiStefano]

Good, good.

[H]

Thanks for having me on today.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it, man.

[H]

So first start off like everyone else, big fan of the show, listening to you guys every day on the way, the way to and from work and while I'm working out. So appreciate the time. Jump right into it. 26. I just, just turned 26. Girlfriend is 25. We both met at college, been together over three and a half years now. We are currently closing and buying a house and moving in together this summer. Proposal is also coming very soon. She's a teacher and I work at the college where we both met. Both, we both practice the same religion and we also want kids in the future. Both work out every day, lots of casual walks, occasionally run, sign up for runs, half marathons, 5Ks, things like that. Both lift weights and work out at home. But when school's on session here on campus, I'll go to the gym here. And so as fathers and husbands, what advice can you give me to help guide, help guide me into the, this next phase of life and if possible, what is a big lesson you learned with your spouses as you began your lives together? And a little extra information that I did not include. Both come from very good families, raised the right way with big good siblings, good parents, good things like that. So raised the right way and just want to hear what you guys thoughts are.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean I love that you're asking this question at your age and this is something that's important to you. That's, that's awesome.

[Sal DiStefano]

Half the battle right there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Kirsten]

I mean that's intentions, everything going into this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Because it's going to be, you know, if you, you plan on getting married and the idea is to be together for the rest of your life, you're going to be very different 10 years from now, so is she. And then 10 years from them and there's gonna be so many, many challenges and celebrations you go through together. Life is, you know, life is unpredictable. So the fact that you're asking this is, is super awesome. I mean I could tell you a lot of what not to do. That's I think the best advice.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, let's start with the fitness thing and then we'll go to the like the, the husband thing. And so my, my piece of advice on the fitness thing first would be, you know, make strength training the core foundation. All the other things you listed plios, running, the occasional walks. Obviously I think you hopefully can never stop doing that. But as you get busy, right. And as you have a kid and life happens, some of this stuff this time gets away. And I had a tendency early on in my 20s to be all or nothing. And, and when I look back and I go like man, I really made a mistake being that guy. Like, you know, I would, it would have served me to just have 15 minute workouts or just do one workout for the week if it was Strength training based. Right? So, so make that the core foundation, make that the non negotiable. Make sure that you lift weights weekly. And it doesn't necessarily have to look like this one hour workout, three to five times a week. It could be sometimes a full body routine, one day in the entire week, sometimes it can be two exercises a day. And, and then the other stuff is like the additional things because that, that will give you the greatest ROI as far as keeping you strong, fit and healthy long term. Term. That's my fitness advice, my marriage advice. We could go all day on all the different things that I think to think about. I think one of the most powerful things in my relationship was understanding her love language and how important that was. I've met a lot of people and you may have already experienced this where you feel like you truly feel like you're loving the other partner because you're doing this thing right. You're putting this effort towards loving her and she doesn't receive it. She thinks that you don't say it enough or you don't do the things enough and you're like, what? I do this and I do that. And a lot of times it's just a, a misunderstanding of what their love language is. We have a tendency to love others the way we want to be loved and, and it doesn't always align with what their love language is like. Give you the example with Katrina and I, I. And when this happened, I'll never forget this day because it was a really powerful moment in our relationship where she was just like, you know, you don't, you don't tell me that you love me enough. And I feel like, you know, I always have to ask for it. I'm like, what? I'm like. And at that time there, literally it was a time in my life where every week I was buying her like a Lululemon outfit or something or a sneaker. I was always thinking about her at, at, you know, while I was working. And when I had a brief moment, I would do that and I remember pointing over the dresser, I go, that dresser is full of Lululemon outfits that I've bought you in the last year. And that's me going out of my way in the day to buy that for you and show you my how much I love you and think about you. She's like, I don't need that. I just need you to tell me. And so. And later on I read the book Love Languages and that that really made a big difference because I really felt like I was loving the. Out of her, yet she didn't feel like I was doing it, and vice versa. It can happen the same way, too, too. So I think that was a really powerful thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's great. I. You know, it says in your email that you're both practicing Catholics and you both are pretty devoted to your faith. Marriage. Marriage as we know it, and practice it like one. One man, one woman for the rest of your life having children. That's a Christian creation. So just like if you were asked, you to ask me, hey, Sal, where do I get the instructions to put together this piece of furniture? I would say, well, the best place is to get the instructions from the manufacturer. The person that made that furniture is going to give you the best instructions because they're the ones that made it. So the best instructions for both of you on marriage are found in your faith. Ephesians 5 is really, really good for this. And it really. And it really does explain. There's more in other parts of the Bible. I can't remember where. I think it's second Peter somewhere, maybe first Peter, but Ephesians 5 is great. And so I would recommend that both of you get in there, read it, understand it, pray. I read some data. I'd never seen data like this before in my life for divorce risk. But couples that pray together nightly have a divorce rate of 1%. There's nothing else that has that big of an impact on divorce. There's nothing that comes close to that. And then couples that do that don't just not get divorced. The rates of satisfaction and joy and love and purpose are also so much higher. So that's where I'll point you. Now, personally, I can tell you what not to do. I made a lot of mistakes. I still make a ton of mistakes, but especially my first marriage. I made a ton of mistakes. I live by the. What the world told me was valuable. I thought my value was making tons of money. I was prideful, lustful. And I, you know, I thought, oh, this is my. The way I'm gonna find success is when the world shows me is supposed to be success. And that ended in total disaster. And even in the first half of my current marriage. So that's where I'll point you, is look there. Because, you know, he's the creator of what you're trying to do. He's gonna give you the best instructions. And if you both go into that together again. I'm a data guy, too. I looked at the data and there's nothing more effective. I haven't seen anything that's more effective than, than those things right there.

[Kirsten]

Yeah, I don't have a lot of advice. I mean it's, it's kind of like an iterate, an iterative process. This is something like we, we went and got counseling beforehand, which I think is something to consider. And we do have a religious background as well, so it got us equally yoked, as they say. And that's just something that we set our intention out, out in that direction. And, and then so that's just the foundation that established. But from there it's really just a lot of communication, a lot of understanding differences, lots of areas that we find that we can grow together. We're always both individually seeking growth and then growth together as a couple. And so whatever that looks like and what you guys can figure out where you can build something together, I think going forward in terms of longevity, that's probably my best advice.

[Adam Schaefer]

I read a quote or I heard a sermon and it was such a great quote and it said couples, the guy said, couples don't fall out of love, they fall out of forgiveness. And I thought that was so true because you are very flawed. So is your wife. We all are. As a Catholic, you understand that. And so it's going to be about constant grace and forgiveness and repair throughout the entire marriage because I guarantee you're going to screw up, guaranteed your wife is going to screw up. I guarantee you're going to be selfish. I guarantee you're not going to be understanding. I guarantee she's not going to show you respect sometimes. I guarantee she's going to screw up and be selfish. And so it's like, you know, it's just constant repair and forgiveness. But again, Ephesians 5 is great. I mean I, I, my wife and I go through that so, so often together and alone. And it has been absolutely transformative.

[H]

Yeah. One of the things I hear you guys talk about a lot is being very intentional so with your spouses and significant others. So we, when we met in college our senior year after graduation, we both moved back home to our parents houses two hours away. So we've been doing back and forth for three years. Two hours distance for three years. And finally that's coming to an end of the summer as the school year wraps up for her. And one thing that we've done really, really good at over the last three years is being very intentional with how we want to spend our time and even leaving our phones away when we're together to go for walks or hikes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or.

[H]

Going On a date night and things like that, just to spend intentional time together. And we want to make sure that we continue to do that. And when we start living together here pretty soon.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's great, man. I think that's super.

[Sal DiStefano]

You guys are gonna do good, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're gonna do great. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're such a care. Yeah.

[Kirsten]

Thinking about it right now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Kirsten]

It's gonna do super powerful.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. One last thing I'll say is the. As the man, the father and the husband, you're the CEO of your family. So when it comes to making time, just like if you're a CEO and you got interviewed by a news station, they're like, hey, how come your company's tanking? You imagine a CEO up there saying, oh, I got these crappy employees, and I got this everybody. Like, what a terrible CEO. So ultimately, success is actually on you. And so talking about making time and being intentional, that's ultimately your responsibility, because. So just keep that in mind. And I know, as a man what I'm saying. He's probably making you feel good. You're probably like, all right, I'll do it.

[H]

Yeah, it does.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Which kind of points to the order. Kind of points to what you're called to do. But keep that in mind. When the. You know, that. You know what hits the fan, say, all right, I'm responsible for this. This is. This is my. This is my. My company. Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

Have lots of sex, too, Matt. It's hard to be fighting with each other if you're having sex all the time, too. That's my last piece for you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. In the middle of arguing. Yeah. Adam said, we got to do it. I don't know if she'll appreciate. Girl hears that.

[Sal DiStefano]

It'll work out. It'll work out. I promise it'll work out.

[H]

Well, I appreciate the time, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, bro. Yeah, thank you.

[H]

And have a good rest of you guys today.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it. Oh.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, Doug. Doug, just. Sorry.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sorry. The music.

[Kirsten]

No more questions.

[Sal DiStefano]

That was the question that was going to save it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. The music that kicks in when they're getting a war words. Hey, wait. Great kid. You know, He's. What is he, 25, 26? Asking that question?

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean. Yeah, I think Justin said it. Right. The fact that he's. The fact that you're. You're already going into it with the intent of. Of that, I think is half the battle.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think that's. That you care and you want to try. There's. There's a Stat on that too, in regards to, like, divorce and stuff, is that it's when one of the partners is. Has given up on it. It's like very, very.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like, yeah. Chances of them, if they just both.

[Kirsten]

Want attempt is huge.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's a huge.

[Sal DiStefano]

If they just both want to. It's like a huge, huge success. So. Oh, he'll be all right.

[Doug Egge]

Our next color is Kish from Canada.

[Adam Schaefer]

Kish, what's happening?

[Sal DiStefano]

How you doing, man?

[Kirsten]

What's up?

[G]

Hello. How's it going, guys?

[Sal DiStefano]

Good.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, we're good.

[G]

All right, I'll jump into my question and then I'll add on some more information because I realized I didn't put everything in there. So if you don't mind, I'll just jump into it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[Kirsten]

Get it.

[G]

All right. So first of all, hello. I'll call you guys like master Yodas because there's so much knowledge I'm getting from you. I've been a big fan listener for the past three years when I discovered you guys right around Covid. And since then I've been applying a bunch of this stuff you guys have been putting into on the podcast. And it's really changed a lot of how I've been seeing things in terms of sports and my own health, background of who I am. I'm 28 years old, currently 235 pounds, six four, male, living in Montreal, Quebec. So here, obviously the weather does play a big role on how things go in terms of, like, working on indoors or outdoors and all the sports I do. Early 2015, I saw university and got into weightlifting a bit more. More for pure power, but also discovered beer. So there was a big unfortunate muscle. Muscle loss and weight gain coming from that.

[Kirsten]

That.

[G]

And I did put my fitness aside, got all the way to £285 and I was. And I was unfit. I was still big, but somewhat a mobile person. Moving forward to 2021, I wanted to get my groove back, bring back the good old days of me being fit. But during that time, gyms were closed, very limited for Covid again. So I decided to start running. Not with the goal of losing weight. It kind of played a role a little bit in there, but just to move around. That was the only thing which was allowed during that time. Time I invested into some resistance cables and used that for the whole year just to do some small trigger sessions just to keep, you know, my muscle activated. Later that year, even, like motor was like late 2022 or something. Gyms were open again and I got to play around with weights and I like being outdoors and running and challenged myself to do a half marathon and somehow discovered that I like running quite a lot and started doing OCR races, so the Spartan races and all from 2021 up until 2024. So I had a pretty heavy calendar of doing like four to five races at least per year. And during that time I was somehow able to keep a balance between my weight lifting and running for fun. But now I want to push myself more to perform better. During my time when I was weightlifting, I had my peak lifts. For the squat I did, I did 365. I did 375 pounds on the deadlift, 75 pounds for each number for shoulder press press and 210 on the bench press. Currently I'm aiming to be more like a functional athlete. Still want to be able to do heavy lifts. I don't feel like I need to hit pls every time, but I still want to be able to run an eight minute mile for my half marathons. I'm also training right now for half Ironman, so it's a lot of like mixed cardio, let's say events. I also got into trail running and even more doing ultra running. So I really appreciate that environment of trail running and I kind of want to push the barrier of being the strong and big fit dude but still able to run on trails. So that is the challenge which I, I want to, I want to keep giving myself. I am also a firm believer that working out and muscle development can only help my body by protecting it and making me stronger. But somehow still need to be able to be fast on my feet for a long duration. So this kind of gives a conflicting message between building muscle versus being light to complement all of that. Right now currently working with a coach and I've been training for a half ironman, which is going to be in four weeks. I've been training since December. However. Yeah, you guys must definitely know with all your past clients like training for half hour a minute is no easy feat. I'm training around 12 to 15 hours per week and it's a lot of cardio, a lot of biking, swimming, running. In all of that I have one hour of full body workout. That's the most I do in terms of just like muscle preservation. Am I wrong for doing something like that? Am I wrong for aiming to be like a functional athlete, still keeping, you know, keeping like a good shape, but being able to be performing those kind of events like a half ironman? Do I need to have an in season and off season training. That's where I kind of have a lot of questioning and I tried doing math 15. It worked out quite well for the first four weeks when I started training for my half Ironman. But at a certain point I was kind of running short of you know, just time to breathe. Yeah. And have like more information on my nutrition if you guys need that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Well, I mean okay. Yes. You should have it in season and off season training always. Especially if you're competing at. At that level. Half. Half Ironmans are. I mean it's a high level of performance. You know, look at it this way. If you look at your whole year you should have a short in season that is maybe 12 weeks and then the rest should kind of be off season feeling good. So it's like a sprint. Think of a run, right. You have short sprints but long duration times of just kind of cruising. That's what your training should look like. If you're having fun and you feel good and your performance is improving then you're doing, you're doing a good job. And there's nothing with focusing more on endurance sometimes and other times focusing more on strength. The mistake that you'll make that people often make like you is they try to improve everything at the same time.

[Kirsten]

Converge everything together.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's when, that's when you're going to be challenged. That's when you're going to run into problems. It's like I want to get at £30 to my bench. I also want to improve my marathon time. I also want to get better at pull ups. I also. It's like if you can't do everything all at the same time. So put, you know, make your goals more specific in the sense that right now it's, it's Ironman training. If I'm improving in my performance for Ironman then I'm moving in the right direction. Don't try to also build muscle at the same time though. That'll spell for.

[Sal DiStefano]

There's a big difference between a buff jack dude that can run a sub 8 minute mile and being an ultra marathon runner and OCR guy. I mean there's. They're very, very different goals. Like you could totally be a, a buff guy and run a sub 7 minute mile. You could absolutely do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

That.

[Sal DiStefano]

But it's the training for Iron man and ultra marathon running and that type of volume you're, you're trying to also lift a lot of weights. You're putting yourself at risk injury wise. I think the Maps 15 protocol is probably the, the better protocol for you if you're going to be doing all that running and that's probably going to preserve the most amount of muscle, but you're certainly not going to build during that process.

[Adam Schaefer]

And if you try to, you'll run into problems.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I've trained a few people have, that have done half my Ironmans and full Ironmans. And the strength training leading up to the competition is so minimal.

[Kirsten]

Minimal.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's extremely minimal. Like probably six weeks out we're doing correctional exercise and that's it. We're not doing a bunch of lifts before that. It's, it's once a week, week, maybe 35 to 45 minutes of strength training because the, the volume of training that you're, you're putting on your body, any more than that, you start to, you know, you start to see reductions in performance.

[Kirsten]

That's where. Yeah, I mean, if you do have your off season where you could block that out and you could do, you know, one to three months of just like solid focus on strength training, that's going to carry you as long as you do that 15 protocol and the preservation of that for muscles. Great, great. So that will carry you pretty far. But if you can actually carve that out specifically so your body, it, you know, it's, it's going to adapt best to specificity. So if you can really isolate that and then maintain that carrying you in and time it out. So now too, like those other focuses with endurance training, like leading up into the event is going to be ideal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Kuvish, if for the rest of your life, if this is like the kind of stuff you enjoy where you just like feeling like you could do a lot of things, which I could totally see, I could totally get why somebody would like that, then the best approach, generally speaking, is to like what Justin's saying. I'm going to train for strength and then now I'm going to start working a little more on endurance. And so what happens? And now I'm working on a little bit mobility. What happens is the other goals take a back seat. They become supportive role to improve the main goal. Right. So if my goal is endurance, I'm going to use strength training to prevent injury. If I'm trying to train for strength, I'm going to use endurance training to improve my strength training, maybe improve my endurance for higher set, higher numbers of reps, that kind of thing. And you just move in and out, you move in and out of that kind of stuff. You don't stay anywhere for too long and that'll give you, that'll reduce the risk of overtraining, reduce the risk of injury and give you a lot of all of it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Do you take breaks on the running or are you pretty much like year round doing runs every week?

[G]

I mean the off season pretty much my in season is pretty. Because in, in, in Quebec you can only go outside as of like mid May up until like mid October. So that's where I'll be like running way more outside between mid October all the way to like the next year of, of mid May. I, I have like, I still run a little bit to maintain that cardiovascular strength or like cardiovascular capacity that I, that I built. So probably doing like one or two runs per week. But it's nothing like I'm not, I'm not doing like two or three hours of running during that time. I'm just like doing at least like you know, two 30 minute outings at most. But it's, it kind of fits with like you guys said of like having that period to just build a strength that might support my body for this, for the in season.

[Sal DiStefano]

I love that. If you're only doing if, if you have. What was that, six, five, six months or so? I don't do the math. You have five, six months of only two 30 minute runs a week. You could absolutely. That could be your muscle building time and you're very focused on building muscle during that time and that's where you're running a more traditional MAPS anabolic type program or maps performance which is probably going to be more stuff sup supportive and conducive for what you're trying to do. I'd run that. And then when you get an in season you're barely doing any strength training. It's more like a Maps 15 protocol or like a one day a week from mass performance or even when you get closer and your running starts to scale, doing like mobility days from performance like what Sal was talking about. So with a schedule like that you could absolutely do it. Just don't do them both at the same time. That's where you get screwed.

[G]

Yeah, I was kind of like thinking of. Because currently I still have like Mass 15. I've been using it, it's done its job quite well. But I haven't had the time or opportunity to look into what's the difference between mass 15 and math 15 performance. Because I think probably must 15 performance might fit better my goals on the long term.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah. I like, I like Maps 15 performance. I also like like performance so during the off season, you're running maps performance.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's your strength.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's your strength training. And then what you could do is go down to one day a week when the running starts to pick up when the season begins, and then eventually scale all the way down to just mobility days once you get really in the thick of running. And that would be perfect.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's good.

[G]

Yeah. Yeah. Cause it kind of works. Kind of worked because that. That was the general idea I had in mind of how I should be splitting my in season, off season and kind of like planning my goals around it. I just kind of needed someone to, you know, just anchor that. That same point into my mind.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have fun with all of it and be. And really be specific with your goal and use the other stuff to support the specific goal and go in and out of them, but have fun. So once it starts to feel like I'm fried, it's like it's taken away from the quality of my life. And it. I get that when you're in season and you're training really hard, but most of the time you shouldn't feel that way.

[G]

Sounds good.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it, man. Do you have. Do you have 15 performance?

[G]

No, I don't have 15 performance.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, we'll send that to you.

[G]

Cheers.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it, man. Thank you. That's a good question. I think it's. He's got the right idea. Big dude. Six. Was he six, five, six, four, six, four, two, three, five doing all that?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I think that's great. I mean, ideally speaking, what the advice we're giving him would be the probably healthiest way for most people to train. It just doesn't work that way because, you know, we all have our favorites.

[Kirsten]

And yeah, we always get gravitate towards what we do.

[Sal DiStefano]

You guys hit it. The number one mistake that guys like this do is or girls is trying to do both.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. They want everything.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. At the same time. And then you get none of it because you're. You're pushing the weights too much while simultaneously pushing the runs too much. You're just, just. And I like that. That's a good little season right there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

When it's out, when it's sunny outside and he can run outside, that's when he ramps up his, you know, ultra marathon running and his iron man stuff. And like, that's great. And then he has a whole other five, six months where the weights when it's cold. Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

[Doug Egge]

Our next caller is Kirsten from South Africa.

[Kirsten]

Hello.

[Doug Egge]

Kirsten.

[Kirsten]

Hello.

[Sal DiStefano]

How you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

Hey guys, how are you all?

[Sal DiStefano]

Good, we're good.

[Adam Schaefer]

How can we help you?

[Justin Andrews]

Good. Firstly, it's amazing to be on. I'm super excited to chat to you guys, so thank you so much. Please excuse me. It is quarter past seven at night, so it's after dinner and shower time. So in my PJs.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no worries.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm gonna read my question nonetheless. I did write in about a month and a half ago, so just a couple of things have changed so I will just update as I go. So basically I'm in desperate need of some help and some direction. I've been listening to you guys for just over a year and finally decided to reach out for some guidance. I am 35, 165 cm and weigh 59 kilos which is about 130 pounds. I eat now 1930 calories per day and get a minimum of about 150 to 160 grams of protein. I usually train well now six days a week and it kind of of separates by glutes and hams, back and bars, quads and calves, shoulders and then another shoulders and triceps day because I'm really focusing on my arms as I'm quite bottom, not too bottom heavy, but I've got strong legs. I was a dancer, I get 10,000 steps in every day. I was cycling 20 minutes three times a week but I've cut the cardio out completely as I'm currently healing from a meniscus tear. I've been weight training for about three years and I know my way around the gym, but I don't look like I train. I struggle with this layer of body fat that I just can't seem to get rid of. I have two injuries that are limiting me with TFCC reconstruction in my right wrist that was repaired in July last year and I'm currently healing from a meniscus tear and cartilage debridement in my left knee which I'm now currently going for the blood plasma injections to help speed up recovery. I've been advised against deep squats and forward lunges going forward as this is my second knee surgery in 10 years. I'm at a complete loss right now and I'm struggling to navigate my training around these injuries. I'm putting in all the hard work and battling to see the results. I want to look fit, I want to be lean and I want to have my body to have some shape, but I'm just not sure which direction to go in and that's why I'm reaching out to you guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, thank you. I have the answer. It's gonna be tough though. But let me ask you more questions. Tell me about your lifestyle. You married, kids, what's your job like?

[Justin Andrews]

So I'm married, I don't have kids. I've got two golden retrievers that keep me busy. I work for quite a large fashion brand which I've actually just changed roles. I've got a promotion so looking after seven countries. So it is quite stressful.

[Sal DiStefano]

But.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's great and I love it. So it is a bit of a desk job, but hybrid working. So I do try and move as much as I can. I do have a walking pad at home so that comes in super useful. And I'm pretty much a bit of an energizer bunny. I can't really sit still for too long so I honestly try and get out as much as I can. I love being in the gym. It's really my safe space because I can't. I used to run, I can't do that now with my knees. So the gym's really become like a haven for me where friends are and, you know, my husband also trains with me. So it's really just my own space that it's time where I can switch off and just allow to be my own. So, yeah, that's really me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Already know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. We've trained a lot of people like you, so I can give you. Do you. Okay. Do you really want.

[Sal DiStefano]

The answer is simple. It's difficult for you to do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you really want to see incredible results?

[Justin Andrews]

I really do. That's why I'm calling.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. What I'm going to tell you to do is going to be really hard, but it's going to work.

[Justin Andrews]

You're going to tell me to do maths. 15.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm going to tell you to work out way less and eat more. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And look, here's okay. Background of a dancer. So you just, you just know how to overtrain. That's what dancers do. High performing job. I don't like to sit still. I've got all these injuries that have been happening. I'm strength training five days a week. I could tell you how many steps that take. Day. Take a day. I put a walking pad screaming at you. Always move. You're like over trained and underfed and you've probably been that way for a long time, which is probably why you're, you're suffering from those injuries for sure.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I knew, I knew that before you told us what you did for work and then the type of personality you have. And then when you do that, it just tipped it over for sure. Yeah, it was probably looking like that before that advice. It. You just confirmed it for sure. If you're the person who can't sit still and you admit that you have a high stress job. Job is all the, all the, everything we've listed are. It's all stress. And, and you're also low calorie, especially for that much activity and movement and that high of a stress job. So in the context of low calorie and all those things, you're just overstretched and your body's trying to tell you it's obviously screaming at you for the last 10 years. It's too much enough to where you've got an injury twice telling you, forcing you to slow down. And so, so yeah, the advice looks like maps 15 and more food or maps anabolic one day or two day a week and more food.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And that's what it looks like.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think your best bet. And I'll tell you what to experience just so you. Or what you're going to experience just so you can. As it happens, if you take our advice, you're like, okay, he told me this would happen. I'd like to see you bump your calories, 200 calories. I'd like to see you follow Maps 15 as it's laid out. No modifications. Don't add exercises. Exercises don't make.

[Kirsten]

Don't add cardio.

[Adam Schaefer]

Don't try to make up for it by beating the crap out of yourself with the exercises that are listed. Do it as it's laid out. Continue to monitor your steps and what you'll feel first off is an increase in energy. You'll get better sleep, libido will improve. You're going to get more mental sharpness. And then you're going. And stronger. You're going to see strength gains. And then you're going to be very tempted to push it. And then you're going to say, all right, let's go, but don't do it. So. And you need to stay here probably for three months minimum. Okay, Minimum. And you're gonna. And you're gonna see some benefits. And don't weigh yourself. That's gonna mess with your head really bad. Throw your scale away and just focus on your strength in the gym. Now, if you have extra time on your hands, which you will because you're spending so much time working out, then do something else that doesn't involve working out, you could walk more, you could read, you know, stretch, but nothing. That's a workout. And this is going to change your body. This will change your body, but it's really most importantly, it's going to change the relationship you have with fitness. It's going to break those chains that are keeping you kind of where you're at with this relationship with workouts.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, it's super difficult because you know that the gym has really become such a, such a haven for me and like an outlet because I don't, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't really drink alcohol. I don't really do anything else. So that's, that's my outlet, which is, I think this. It's really like got such a hold over me and I was even worse training. I was training six, seven days a week. I was adding an extra cardio on top of it. And I've actually kind of already scaled back. My calories were super low. And then I actually got a. An online coach and, and he bumped my calories up to 2, 19 and shocker, my waist started coming down. But that was, that was it. Nothing really else is budging. My waist has come down about 3 centimeters in five weeks, but. And I'm eating more, I'm struggling a bit. He's asked to increase my fat as well because my fats were super, super low.

[Adam Schaefer]

What was your fat at?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, so my fat intake used to be about 30 grams per day. It's now at about 60, 70, still too low.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you have a regular cycle? Do you have a regular period?

[Justin Andrews]

No. So I've recently gone off the oral contraceptive. So October last year and I've only had one cycle since then.

[Adam Schaefer]

Kristin, you are terribly overtrained, right? And you're functioning because you're so disciplined and you've got this attitude that I can make it happen. You know, it's interesting what you're saying about your workout, how it's a safe haven. Like these are what happens when we have a bad relationship with something is we can very easily justify it. And this is what encourages or maintains the bad relationship. So what you're going to have to do with this is stop weighing and stop measuring yourself. The only thing you can track is your strength because strength moving up in your case is going to be a very positive sign. Go up to 2,000 calories a day and follow Mass 15 and just do that, just do that. And then what we're going to do, Kirsten, is I'm gonna have you back on the show in three months after the program is up so you can check in with us. And part of the reason why I'm doing that. Accountability, is to give you some accountability, because if you come back on in three months and you tell me that you modified it, I'm gonna be very upset with you. So you're gonna come back on, we're gonna talk all about it, and what I'm gonna hear from you is like, oh, my God, everything's so much better. I feel so much better. I feel so much stronger. I got my period. I'm sleeping better. Like, this is so incredible. I didn't believe it. I can't believe what's happening. That's what we're going to hear if you follow our advice. But it's very clear what's happening right now.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it's, it's very, very simple, yet very difficult to do. So the advice is very simple. Okay. Like to ask somebody to do less is normally a simple ask. Right. Because we're not asking you to go do more, do less, but very hard for somebody like you to do. So. Yeah, I, I'm with Sal. I like the idea of letting, letting you know that we're going to put you back on the show in three months for a bit accountability to listen to us. But, yeah, this is, I need that. It's, it's solvable. This is solvable. And, and we can get there. And you're heading the right direction, so that's very good. So you're, you're moving in the right direction. You just got to move a lot more in that direction.

[Adam Schaefer]

Are you still working with the coach, the online coach?

[Justin Andrews]

I am, yes. And, and his, his training is, is intense. It's, it's six days a week. I'm spending minimum an hour and 15 hour and a half in the gym.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I'd love to have one, I'd love to have one of my trainers call you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's way too much.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'd love to have one of my trainers call you. That's works for us.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, I got to tell you too, that this nerd, the energy that you feel where you're like, I'm, I, I can't sit down. That's called nervous energy. That's cortisol energy. So your cortisol levels are probably elevated all the time now. What will follow if you continue down this path is a crash in cortisol and extreme fatigue or more injuries and injuries and all that stuff. Right. But what you're feeling is just nervous, like, I can't sit still, you know, type of deal.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly. That.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right. That's just. Yeah. You've got cortisol and you've got all the stress hormones keeping you going right now because your body's so overstressed. But if you take our advice, it's gonna be life changing. It's gonna be life changing for so many different reasons, but especially the one that you're valuing, which is, will my body change? Definitely. Absolutely.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Because I mean, that's. It's. I can't sit still for. For two seconds. We get into bed at night to watch a movie, and I'm on my phone and I'm checking this and I'm up and I'm down.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's.

[Justin Andrews]

It's. I really, really struggle to. To switch off and to relax. So, yeah, I had a feeling this is where you guys were gonna. You're gonna send me, but I need the accountability. So I really do appreciate that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Good. We'll have you back on. We're gonna have you back on and we'll follow up with you, and I can't wait to see just how much you enjoy the progress.

[Justin Andrews]

Amazing. Amazing. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you very much.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it. And we'll send you master 15 if you don't got it.

[Justin Andrews]

Fantastic. I don't have it. No, I don't.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, thanks.

[Justin Andrews]

That was really great.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got it.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you so much, guys. Thank you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bye. Bye.

[Justin Andrews]

Keep long.

[Sal DiStefano]

Bye.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's interesting. It's funny. So people listening. Like, we've trained so many. It's like an avatar. She's like the exact avatar before she.

[Sal DiStefano]

I knew where you were.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would have kept going.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I'm glad you asked. Asked, because I was like, I already know who she is. Let's. Let's hear. Let's hear her confirm it, you know, and then she. It was like, oh, yeah, this is. And then as she continues to talk, it's just more and more, and you're just like piled up.

[Adam Schaefer]

And by the way, 2, 000 calories is just where she's like, the next jump. I'd like to see her at the end of three months up to 25, 26.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, 25, 26, 100.

[Adam Schaefer]

And she's just gonna feel so different. Hormones will get more balanced steps she takes that direction. And she's young enough where it'll. It's. She should respond really well.

[Sal DiStefano]

Imagine this. I mean, this is. This is so common. That, that people get here and how frustrating this is to be putting in this much work and restricting this many calories. And then to say things like, I just want to feel like I work out and also like, that is crazy.

[Kirsten]

Hitting your head on the wall.

[Adam Schaefer]

And just to give people a little bit of like a, like a different example so they understand. Imagine talking to a friend who has an abusive spouse and they're talking about the abuse and then they follow it up with, but you know, you know, we're together and they're not in their show up. Nice. You're like, listen. That's what she's saying. I'm putting all this work in, I'm getting no results. I'm injuring myself, but it's my safe haven. Like, that is a. That is it. That is a unhealthy relationship.

[Sal DiStefano]

He's beating you. Get out. Yeah, that's, that's just it. It is. And you keep coming back and you got it. And at least she's moving in the right direction. She's moving in the right direction. It's just, just. That's the next hard thing is that someone like this feels like, okay, I did this. Now can I start doing more now? Can I say like, it's like, no. We have a long ways to go still.

[Adam Schaefer]

So look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at mind pump DiStefano. Adam's at mind Pump out.

[Doug Egge]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps, Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.