2617: Only 5 Steps for a 6 Pack (Everybody Gets This Wrong)

Summary

Episode Summary: Mind Pump Episode 2617: "Only 5 Steps for a 6 Pack (Everybody Gets This Wrong)"

Release Date: June 12, 2025
Hosts: Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Produced by: Doug Egge

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Introduction

In Episode 2617 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve into common misconceptions surrounding the quest for six-pack abs. They challenge the traditional approaches many adopt and present a science-backed, five-step formula to effectively develop a visible and muscular core.

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1. Eat in a Caloric Surplus

Key Point: Building muscle, including abdominal muscles, requires adequate nutrition. Contrary to popular belief that achieving abs is solely about fat loss, the hosts emphasize the importance of building the underlying muscle first.

• Sal DeStefano underscores this by stating, “You need to build the muscles of the core so that they're visible. You can't build muscle without adequate nutrients.” [06:55]

• Justin Andrews adds, “The really positive side to this tip is that if you've never really approached developing your abs like this, this is such an awesome strategy.” [11:25]

Insight: Many individuals mistakenly focus on cutting calories to reveal abs without first ensuring that the abdominal muscles are sufficiently developed. A small caloric surplus provides the necessary nutrients for muscle growth, which is foundational for visible abs.

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2. Perform the Right Exercises with Proper Technique

Key Point: The effectiveness of ab exercises is often compromised by improper technique and selecting the wrong movements. Understanding the biomechanics of abdominal muscles is crucial for meaningful development.

• Sal DeStefano explains, “The mistake I see this, this is the most common mistake with ab exercise... you’re not working your abs in a full range of motion, essentially making the exercise 90% less effective.” [14:36]

• Justin Andrews emphasizes, “When you do a leg raise... If it's not the primary mover, it's not what's going to get the biggest bang for your buck doing that movement.” [18:08]

Insight: Exercises like leg raises and sit-ups are often performed incorrectly, engaging hip flexors instead of the abdominal muscles. Focusing on movements that promote spinal flexion and proper muscle engagement ensures that the abs are effectively targeted.

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3. Limit the Number of Repetitions

Key Point: Contrary to the high-repetition culture surrounding ab training, lower rep ranges with controlled movements are more effective for muscle hypertrophy.

• Sal DeStefano states, “The highest reps that you probably want to do with good technique and good form with resistance is probably around 20, maybe 25.” [22:59]

• Justin Andrews shares, “Have you ever thought about doing like five, but really heavy in Control, Good technique.” [24:47]

Insight: High-rep ab routines do not significantly contribute to muscle growth and can lead to overtraining without proportional benefits. Instead, incorporating lower reps with increased resistance fosters muscle development and strength.

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4. Optimize Workout Programming

Key Point: Effective training involves structured programming that includes varied workouts targeting different aspects of the core, such as strength, hypertrophy, and stability.

• Sal DeStefano outlines a balanced approach: “Workout one looks like what we're talking about. You're doing the lower reps, it's heavy, it's slow. Workout two... it's a little bit lighter, I'm getting more of a pump. Workout three is where I'm doing stabilization.” [26:20]

• Justin Andrews adds, “You have a very specific day based on strength. You have a day that's based on hypertrophy. Then you have this isometric type of day.” [26:28]

Insight: Training the abs multiple times a week with varied intensities and focuses ensures comprehensive development. This structured approach prevents plateaus and promotes consistent growth and stability.

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5. Minimize Excessive Cardio

Key Point: While cardio has its benefits, relying heavily on it for revealing abs can be counterproductive, especially when combined with calorie deficits that hinder muscle growth.

• Sal DeStefano advises, “Cardio... to create a calorie deficit, it's not a great approach... the body adapts very quickly to cardio. Some of the ways it adapts to too much cardio is by paring muscle down.” [27:44]

• Justin Andrews concurs, “It's literally do it through nutrition, do it through your diet. If you can get some extra activity here and there, that can help speed up the process.” [29:16]

Insight: Excessive cardio can lead to muscle loss, including the abdominal muscles, making it harder to achieve a defined six-pack. Focusing on nutritional strategies for fat loss while preserving muscle mass is more effective for revealing abs.

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Conclusion and Actionable Steps

The hosts conclude by outlining a practical approach for listeners:

1. Build Phase (6-8 weeks):

   • Nutrition: Maintain a 300-500 calorie surplus daily.
   • Training: Focus on heavy, low-rep ab exercises with proper technique.
   • Programming: Incorporate varied workouts targeting strength, hypertrophy, and stability.

2. Cut Phase (6-8 weeks):

   • Nutrition: Create a slight caloric deficit by removing one meal per day.
   • Training: Continue ab-focused training with the emphasis on maintaining muscle while shedding fat.

Justin Andrews summarizes, “Watch what happens if you spent six to eight weeks building and then six to eight weeks cutting.” [29:16]

Final Insight: Achieving visible abs is a two-phase process of building the abdominal muscles followed by carefully managing fat loss through nutrition. This method ensures that the abs are not only visible but also well-developed and functional.

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Notable Quotes

• Sal DeStefano [06:55]: “You can't build muscle without adequate nutrients.”
• Justin Andrews [11:25]: “If you haven't approached developing your abs this way, you're missing out on an awesome strategy.”
• Sal DeStefano [22:59]: “With good technique and good form with resistance is probably around 20, maybe 25 [reps].”
• Justin Andrews [18:08]: “It's a very hard exercise, done slowly and with control.”
• Sal DeStefano [26:20]: “You're just trying to keep your core stable and strong in an isometric position.”

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Final Thoughts

Episode 2617 offers a refreshing perspective on ab training by debunking myths and presenting a structured, evidence-based approach to achieving a six-pack. By focusing on muscle development first and strategic fat loss, listeners are equipped with actionable steps to transform their core effectively.

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Connect with Mind Pump:
Follow the hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug. Visit mindpumppodcast.com for more resources and training protocols.

Transcript

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[Sal DeStefano]

You agree to receive recurring automated marketing messages from Pocket Hose. Message and data rates may apply. No purchase required. Terms apply. [e-mail] Terms if you want to pump.

[Adam Schaefer]

Your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. You are trying to get a six pack the wrong way. We're going to show you how to do it the right way. It really works. Listen to us. By the way, we have a program just for for your core, just for your abs. It's the no BS six pack formula. If you go to maps fitnessproducts.com click on no BS six pack formula. Use the code ABS50. You can get 50% off now. This episode is brought to you by a sponsor, LMNT Element. This is an electrolyte powder you add to your water. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar. That is amazing. It tastes great and it gives you the right amount of sodium for better pumps, better energy, better hydration. Go check them out. Go to drinklmnt.com mindpump go to that link. You'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. We also have a sale this month. The Shredded Summer Bundle and the Bikini Bundle of programs are both 50% off. If you are interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and use the code JUNE50 for the discount. Here comes the show. You want six pack abs? There's only five steps that you need to take to do this, by the way. Everybody messes this up. I'm gonna run through them real quick and then we're gonna break them down. First off, you're not eating enough. Believe it or not. The second one, you're doing the wrong exercises, all the ones that suck. The next one, you're doing way too many reps to make a difference. The fourth one, your workout programming, the programming itself is garbage. And finally, stop doing cardio. All right, let's get into them. I know. Thanks for helping. Thanks for helping me make these negative to get people's.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, Justin's not here today, so I thought I'd be kind of a negative Nancy.

[Sal DeStefano]

We don't have happy Justin making everybody feel better.

[Justin Andrews]

Positive guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So when it comes to. I don't. I, I can't think of a body part, Adam, that. I mean, there's a lot of bad programming, bad exercise to make, like across the board, but I can't think of a body part just like a specific body part that is more just flooded with myths and misinformation than abs. It has to be.

[Justin Andrews]

When you were writing this, I was trying to recall why even I was misled for as long as I was when it came to training this. And I think the thing that comes to mind first to me was I remember. I remember this old adage of like, you're. You use your core and your abs all day just to walk and to stand up. And so they. It needs to be trained differently.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, so it's like, it needs to, like, you need to. It needs. It can take a beating because you're basically. And the same argument used to be made for calves. Calves and core had this similar approach to how to, how to get one. And it was. You had to train them differently because you, you use your core all day long. You use. You walk on your calves all day long. And so therefore they need a different approach towards building the muscle around it. And so, And I bought into that. I bought into this like high rep, high volume burn like crazy, like tons and tons of repetitions is what it would take just to see any sort of difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. So it is true that different muscles have. Now, as far as fiber types, right. As an individual, you have a general makeup of kind of fiber types that you have. By the way, this is oversimplification because this can Change through training quite a bit. But you have your slow twitch muscle fibers, your fast twitch muscle fibers. Slow twitch are the endurance ones. Fast twitch are the strength and power ones, the ones that grow. The ones that really build the most are the fast twitch ones. Now why is that? Because the bigger muscle fiber contracts harder and faster. You don't necessarily need that for stamina and endurance. So slow twitch muscle fibers tend to not build as much. Now again, it's an oversimplification because through training you can actually make some fast twitch ones behave more like slow twitch and vice versa. But it is generally true. So if you want to build, then you train the fast twitch muscle fibers. This is why bodybuilders tend to do, you know, anywhere between 1 to 20 reps. You typically don't see them do 150 reps of exercise because it just doesn't, it just doesn't build muscles that build. Right. It gives you stamina, endurance, but it doesn't really build. Now, as far as individual muscle groups are concerned, it is true that if you were to take somebody's, let's say soleus for example, which is one of the muscles of the calf, it's a flat muscle that goes underneath the big gastroc muscle of the calf, that one has a higher percentage of slow twitch muscle fibers than let's say the lats might have. So that's generally true, but it doesn't matter. You still want to train the muscle fibers that build. You want the muscle fibers to build, so you train. So, so in other words, the principles that apply to your pecs and your delts and or whatever also apply to ab and core training. I personally think a lot of the misinformation around core training stems from the myth of spot reduction. That's what I think, that if you train an area, your body burns body fat from that area.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a good point.

[Sal DeStefano]

And everybody wants to get leaner in the stomach area. And so it turned into this like, you know, do 50 million reps type of deal. Train it differently because you want to get leaner in that area. But spot reduction, reductionism, if that's not how it works.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, I would agree. That's, that's a good point. Another one in to your, your first point that you, you're making, that reminds me of this. Right, so the first step to this is eating in a surplus. Yeah, right.

[Sal DeStefano]

You want to build, but trying to build.

[Justin Andrews]

What I the another old adage was abs are made in the kitchen. And so, okay, so which bait, which unpack that. What does that mean? Well, what it means is that we all have abs. That's right. Everybody, if you, even if you've never.

[Sal DeStefano]

Trained them, if you peeled everybody's fat and skin off, there's abs.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they would have abs.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And, and so there's some truth to this. Right? If every single person, even the most deconditioned out of shape person who's never trained abs, were to get down to 3% body fat, they would have abs.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

So there, there, there's a little bit of truth to that. But here's the problem is so many people decide that, okay, I want to have these abs. And when they decide that, the time they decided to do that, they start doing all these exercises that we're about to talk about that, that are wrong while simultaneously cutting calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Which go flies right in the face of all the advice we give to anybody trying to build any other muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

So if somebody said, I want to build my chest, my pecs, my, anything like that, and they said, you okay, I'm going to eat less and do lots of reps to do that. You'd be like, no, that's a terrible strategy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, getting lean reveals the abs, but building the abs is like building other, any other muscle. And, and the, the more developed your abs are, this is a fact, the more visible they're going to be at higher body fat percentages. I personally experienced this myself in my twenties. Now up until my twenties, I'd been strength training. I was a personal trainer, gym manager, gym owner. I knew what I was doing, but I did have some kind of like, not great exercise technique. I didn't understand that you built the abs like everything else. And so when I would get lean, I remember I would have to get sub 9% to really have a six pack. And then they only really appeared when I'd flexed them. And I remember I had friends that they'd walk around lean and their abs were, they just had six packs, just relaxed. And I really think, oh man, how do they have six packs while they're relaxed? And then I realized, like, their abs are bigger. Yeah, they have more developed. Just like an arm that has muscle will look leaner at a certain body fat percentage than an arm that has less muscle at the same body fat percentage. You need to build the muscles of the core so that they're visible. If you want a six pack, you want abs that show, then you need to develop them. And you can't build muscle without adequate nutrients. You can't do that in a calorie deficit. Good luck. Calorie deficit means you're eating less calories than you're burning, meaning your body has. There are no leftover nutrients, no leftover proteins, no leftover carbohydrates, fats, no leftover calories to build these muscles. So the first step in building a six pack is actually eating in a small surplus. Because we're going to try and build these abs. It ain't going to happen if you're not in a surplus, which is so.

[Justin Andrews]

Crazy to me, because if we were to apply a similar goal to any other muscle group, we. That's obvious how we would approach it. You would, because the same point I made about everybody has abs. Everybody has a chest muscle, everybody has shoulders, everybody has biceps, everybody has quads. If you were to peel everyone down to 3%, it would.

[Sal DeStefano]

They would have delts and biceps and all that.

[Justin Andrews]

They would have all those things. Yet it's been common knowledge forever that if you want to build a big chest, like, I mean, you got to eat to build and you got to lift heavy weight, and that's what it takes to do that. Yet for some reason, we haven't approached the core that way. We tend to approach the core with this, hey, let's cut calories, let's do cardio, let's do lots of repetitions. And that's what build abs. It's like, no, that's silly. It's no different than any other muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Unless you already have well developed ab and core muscles, then you need to build them first. Now, for me, again, this made you a huge difference. When I realized this, and I trained them properly and ate in a slight surplus to give my body enough nutrients to start to build. My abs started to develop, I started to get a pump. I never got a pump on my abs before. Like, I get my biceps or my triceps, whatever. I started to get a pump when I would lift and my abs grew to the point where even at 12% body fat now you can kind of see that I have a six pack. That never happened before because my abs just weren't developed enough. So you first have to be in that surplus. And I'm not talking about a huge surplus. Everybody so not going to a crazy bulk, right? But you got to give your body adequate nutrients to have something left over to build these muscles that you're about to try to build. Otherwise you could do all the strength training exercise you want. What's going to happen is nothing. You're not Going to build anything because you don't have enough nutrients.

[Justin Andrews]

No. The really positive side to this tip is that if you've never really approached developing your abs like this, this is such an awesome strategy because it's so common to cut calories, do high reps, do all these things that don't really build, that just help you lean out. But you've never approached a plan where you're like, hey, you know what? I'm actually going to really try and develop my muscles. I guess I've never really tried to build the core or build the abs in a surplus. Let me do that for a short period of time. You don't have to do it forever. You just do it for a short period of time and then you go the other direction and, boy, what a difference it makes.

[Sal DeStefano]

It makes a huge difference. And I'll say this too, and we see this all the time whenever somebody goes in an appropriate deficit. With good strength training, you might actually find yourself get leaner in the process as well. Not because you're burning body fat, but because you're building muscle. So what I mean by that is, you know, if you have 20 pounds of body fat on your body and you're 200 pounds, that's 10% body fat. If that person gained 10 pounds of muscle without gaining a single pound of body fat, their body fat percentage automatically went down because now it's a smaller percentage of their overall body weight. In other words, you could go through this process and, yeah, I'm in a calorie surplus, but I'm not actually getting fatter because I'm building muscle. I actually am leaner. And then, of course, this is the big kicker, you'll look leaner in the midsection because you've developed the abs. In fact, if I could snap my fingers right now and everybody listening, whose body fat percentage isn't way out of control? You take the average guy who's athletic or fit, 13%, the average female around 22, 21%. If I just develop their abs, if I added, you know, like a pound of muscle to their core, which is a ton, by the way, it's not going to happen. But let's just say you just build them. Everybody would look much leaner in the midsection from having more developed abs. The next thing I said, you're doing the wrong exercises. Or I'll put it differently, you're doing exercises wrong. This is super true with core exercises. So we need to understand the biomechanics of. Let's just talk about the abs For a second, when you look at it, when you're looking at a side view of a human being, like if I were to stand up and stand sideways, the ab muscles attach at the pelvis and at the rib cage. Okay. And what they do is they, is they, they flex my spine, my lumbar spine, they round my low back as they contract. Here's what they don't do. They don't flex me at my hips. In other words, it's not about sitting up and sitting forward, it's about rolling forward. This action right here works the abs. And the mistake I see this, this is the most common mistake with ab exercise. I'll see people doing leg raises and they're literally just lifting their legs. And if their legs are going up but their spine is staying the same, now they feel the tightness and the burn in the core because the core stabilizing. But they're not working their abs in a full range of motion, essentially making the exercise 90% less effective. This is true for all ab, all ab exercises, if you're trying to train a full range of motion, they are spinal extension and flexion, extension and flexion. So think of the low back extending and then flexing, not the hips. That's the big mistake.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know if you intentionally ordered them this way, but I think that of all the things that we're going to cover, these first two that we talk about is like the low hanging fruit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Very few people have actually attempted to build their, their core and abs in a calorie surplus. So that's obvious. Go that direction. If you've never done that. The second thing, and, and probably the most common that I dealt with with training clients was just poor technique. Including myself too. I mean, the most common stuff you see are these like kind of full lever sit ups or crunches. And you said it already. Probably the best cue that was ever taught to me that like unlocked, like, oh, this is what I'm doing wrong was the thinking of like, anyone's seen a skeleton before and knows what kind of like the, what the spine looks like. Right? We've all seen that. And so when you're doing any ab exercise, you're thinking of rolling the spine up.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, versus like contracting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just bending the hips.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, bending it over or folding it. You're trying to roll each individual vertebrae. And so as I do any of those exercises, I'm always kind of thinking of the vertebrae and thinking about, I'm trying to move each and every one of Them roll them up individually. And I think that had helped me out. Go, oh, okay. Otherwise. And this is common in a lot of other exercises, but maybe the most in. In the abs is you have these other muscles that dominate or take over, like the hip flexors. Oh, yeah, Most people. And where this can be deceiving is, yeah, the abs work a little bit. It's kind of. It reminds me of what. When we talk about, like, sleepy butt syndrome with people that can't build their butts, right. Like, if you do a squat, if you do a full range of motion squat, your glutes do get worked. But there is a way that people do it where they feel mostly in their quads and they can't develop their butt. And that's because they're. They are not engaging the proper muscles in that. But you can still perform the exercise and feel maybe a little bit there. Abs are similar this way where you'll do some of it and it's like, oh, I feel a little bit of burn there. So then you assume like, oh, it must be working.

[Sal DeStefano]

The most common muscle that people will work directly whenever trying to do ab exercises, especially things like your feet are anchored, sit ups or leg raises. Both great exercises when done properly. Both often done improperly. The muscles you tend to be working specifically are the psoas muscle, the iliopsoas muscle. This is a hip flexor that attaches at the femur, goes through the body, attaches at the lower back of the spine. If you do ab exercises and it hurts your low back, it's because it's a psoas.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your abs do not attach anywhere near the spine. Now, unless you have a slipped disc or some injury, if you do them, you're like, oh, my God, my back gets real tight. The tightness is your psoas muscle. The psoas is what you're working, and your abs are just stabilizing. That's all they're doing. They're not working through a full range of motion. So if I were to use an example of like, I'll use these two bottles right here. The bottom being your legs, the top one being your. Your body. This right here is hip flexors. Abs would be bending here at the bottle. That's where you're gonna get the abs involved. So when you do a leg raise, even what you're doing is you're trying to roll your pelvis up. You're not just trying to lift the legs. By the way, a real leg raise, done properly, the way I'm Saying where you take the pelvis and rotate it up very hard, very hard, very hard. Only people with the strongest actual ab muscles who are super strong can do these properly. Nine, nine out of 10 times. Anybody doing this gym does it wrong and can't do it right because it's such a long lever of lifting your legs. They're just not strong enough.

[Justin Andrews]

This is why I actually don't like that exercise. Not because I don't think it's incredible and can build abs. And it's especially because it is like a strength exercise for ab. So I do think it could be considered one of the best movements. The problem is I rarely see this done right. When I see people in the gym in the assisted or the hanging and they're, they look like they, they're keeping their so as lift it is straight and it just hip flexor, hip flexor all day, all day long. And again they might even the people have swinging all the way up to the toes to the top of the bar feel a little bit the abs, the abs get worked in there or maybe on the deceleration coming down, they feel a little bit their abs engaged and so they have this connection of like, oh, I kind of feel it in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or it burns.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, or it burns. But it's still not the primary mover. If it's not the primary mover, it's not what's going to get the biggest bang for your buck doing that movement. So I always like doing simpler movements until the client really understands how to articulate the spine and roll it up. Then we can start to progress into some of these more advanced movements that are more challenging. But if you go directly for what people argue and say are the best ab exercises, but then you don't use the just like again, glutes can are one of the best ways to build your glutes is good squatting. But, but if you squat and use primarily quads, it no longer becomes one of the best movements for it. So it has to be done proper in order for it to be the best exercise. Leg raises can be one of the best exercises for your abs, but when, when it's not done properly, it no longer is.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, they belong leg raises belong to people with really strong ab muscles. You can and by the way, when you have really strong ab muscles and you do this right, you're doing like.

[Justin Andrews]

Six I do I single numbers. Yeah, it's a very I I if you do this really slow and like you said, roll all the way up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Keep that long lever.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh My God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Super hard.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, super hard.

[Sal DeStefano]

One of my favorite ways to demonstrate this with people back in the day when I was in gyms would be a physio ball crunch. You would see people do a million reps on this. They're just doing reps. And then I'd say, okay, here's what we're going to do. Lay back on the physio ball, put your low back on the top of it, push your hips up, and then keep that. You got to push, lock your hips into place. That's what we're going to do to keep you from doing a hip flexor crunch. And then let your low back wrap around the ball and. And then crunch over the ball. Suddenly, Mrs. Johnson, who's doing 35 reps at a time, can do four, four proper reps. And her abs are lit up because she was doing it right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Not to get off track a little bit, but just a little history for the audience that doesn't know this. Like, you actually wrote six pack abs before we ever even met.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you remember what was the primary driver of that when you did that? Like, was it. Was you? Were you just like either one just figuring this out or were you or you just starting to see great results personally or what made you do that?

[Sal DeStefano]

It was my personal going from being able to get lean before and not having these abs that really stuck out that I really wanted to figuring it out. And suddenly my abs became my best body part, like within a few months. And I was like, that's because I was doing everything the wrong way. Now we're all. By the way, we're talking about the abs. We'll also talk about the obliques. This one's a little bit more simple. But the obliques rotate you at your trunk at your lumbar spine. So if you want to train the obliques properly, it's twisting with rotation. But technique is everything, like it is with every body part. Next up, you're doing way too many reps. Way too many reps. Again, I think this stems from the spot reduction myth where it's like, I want to get rid of my belly, so let me do 5,000 reps because it burns. And that burn must mean I'm burning fat from that area. Your body doesn't spot reduce. Your body burns body fat from wherever it wants, which is determined by your genetics and your hormones. Okay, mostly genetics. So in other words, the first place you store body fat tends to be the last place that you lose. You lose it. Now, if your hormone profile Changes as you age. Let's say you're a man, your testosterone levels go low and your estrogen goes high. You may notice changes in where you bought you store body fat. Same thing for women, or more belly fat, especially visceral, could be a result of too much stress or insulin resistance, that type of stuff. But nonetheless, you can't spot reduce. So I can't make my core leaner by doing lots of core exercises. So that's where I think this came from. Super high reps just don't build muscle. Like, you don't do this anywhere. The highest reps that you probably want to do with good technique and good form with resistance is probably around 20, maybe 25. This is true for every body part. Now, yes, you could go a little higher, but then this starts to mess with fatigue. And I've never really seen people get great results from this. Typically the best rep range to build muscle are the lower rep ranges. 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, right around there. Just like it is for your biceps, just like it is for your glutes. Same thing for your core. So that means make the exercise hard. And if you're strong, you use resistance.

[Justin Andrews]

Now this is one of my favorite tips to help people with, because even if you do train abs, and even if you do train them properly and work them right, this tends to be the thing that you neglect. And if you've been listening to this podcast for long enough, you've heard us talk about the power of novelty. When you've done a stimulus or you do something you've never done before, how it's like you get those newbie gains again. So this is even great for the advanced lifter. And for some reason, I don't know if it was our generation, I do remember as a young adult, like the musicians that were that taught, that had great abs and great bodies, that were interviewed, always talked about, I do a thousand sit ups a day. And it was always this like crazy number everybody was trying to accomplish. Like, oh, is that all at once? Or they break them up. And then everybody had these strategies to get to a thousand sit ups a day. Like that was what was going to do it. And so there became this kind of this culture around abs being lots of supersets, lots of reps, and it was get. And they needed this consistent daily beating to get to the way you could see in that way. And so everybody was trying to see how many they could do in a day when it's like, have you ever thought about doing like five, but really heavy in Control, Good technique. Yeah, that just, it's not something anybody was talking about or really doing back in the day or even I feel like today. And so even if you're listening and you think you got good form and technique, you do train your abs frequently. Like, when was the last time you did a traditional five by five type of routine for your abs? And do that. If you haven't done that, do it. By the way, this works incredible for the calves too. This was a big unlock for me for building my calves was this whole time I was treating my abs and my calves the same way, where it was just lots and lots of reps, lots and lots of volume. Never once did I think like, oh, I should lift heavy like I do every other muscle group. And sure as shit, when I started doing that, they both really built.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. And so you can pick any core, any ab exercise, pick one that's appropriate. Because if you go heavy with bad technique, there is a chance you'll hurt yourself like there is with any exercise. So like physioball crunches done properly, properly for most people will put you in this rep range. If you're really strong, then you're looking at reverse crunches on an incline or leg raises for the most strong. For these low rep ab building exercises again that make the abs pop out and stick out. Next up is the workout programming typically sucks. Now, the data on this is pretty clear. Body parts tend to develop best when you train them between two to three days a week. Now that doesn't mean, and this is again based on experience, that you're doing the same thing three days a week. What I have found for the core, because the core has a lot of function as well. Now, every muscle has function, okay, but the core is especially important. Like if you, you need a good, stable, stable core with good function to prevent the most common injury, which is low back injury, especially when you're doing squats and deadlifts and overhead presses and that kind of stuff. So there is a method that will give you that functionality and stability, but also develop the aesthetics that you're looking for. And this is typically what it looks like. Workout one looks like what we're talking about. You're doing the lower reps, it's heavy, it's slow. I'm building workout two, which is maybe two days later, it's a little bit lighter, I'm getting more of a pump. I'm not training with as much intensity. And then workout three is where I'm doing stabilization. This is where you're doing your things like planks, counter rotation.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of core stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Where you're just trying to keep your core stable and strong in an isometric position. Because that's very valuable. When you do things again like squats.

[Justin Andrews]

And deadlifts and overhead presses to add to your programming. Sucks. I, a lot of times. And I find I'm going to keep drawing this back to the calves because I feel like these are two areas that are really common when it comes to the programming. It's just a lack of prioritizing it. It tends to be an afterthought.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Both abs and calves, even though people say they want them so bad, they tend just not to prioritize them. They tend to focus on all these other muscle groups and so therefore they get the attention. And I, I just truly believe that you'll get what you focus on. And if you don't focus on those things or make it a priority to program it specifically the way you do everything else, you know, going to get those types of results. And so if you treat it as this afterthought of oh yeah, I'll do a set of abs at the end of this workout, like here and there, you'll get that type of results from it. But if you program it the same way you approach the way you program squats and deadlifts or any other important movement in your training routine, you will see those types of results for it. Just like what you just said. You have a very specific day based on strength. You have a day that's based on hypertrophy. Then you have this isometric type of day. And you make sure that you do that three times a week, every week. And you track your form and your technique matters. Eating in a surplus to build matters, all that stuff matters. If you do all those things, you will build abs.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Now the last step is what you do last because you're trying to reveal what you've built. So this step is later on. Now I said cardio sucks for this and here's what I mean by that. There's nothing wrong with cardio. Okay, great way to build endurance. You can burn some extra calories, blah, blah, blah. But to create a calorie deficit, it's not a great approach. The body adapts very quickly to cardio. Some of the ways it adapts to too much cardio is by paring muscle down. Not a good thing. When you're trying to have an aesthetic looking body, if that's your goal. Unless you want endurance, which is Totally fine. But it's better to create a calorie deficit through diet. Okay, so now that you want to reveal the abs, now you put yourself in a small deficit, typically 3 to 600 calories below what you were eating to, to maintain or maybe a little more than what you were eating to build. Stay in there, consistently eat a high protein diet and then the abs eventually will reveal themselves and you'll have that six pack.

[Justin Andrews]

I like to give my client very specific, easy, generic things for them to follow. So they. So let's. We talked about the very beginning of this was eating in a surplus. So that's step one, right? We have to go build these apps and I want to do that with them for at least six to eight weeks. Six to eight weeks. I'm going to make sure that we are in a 3 to 500 minimum calorie surplus every day for this 6 to 8 weeks of doing all the things that we talked about. Now let's say you've done a good job of that. Okay, I've done that for eight weeks. I've definitely built some muscle. Now I want to really see these abs. Now I'm going to go into a cut or I'm going to lean out. One meal falls off.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

Just if you did a good job of adding calories right to the diet to get to this place where you're in a surplus, an easy way to cut it is just to cut one meal and cut one meal for the next six to eight weeks after that. And watch what happens if you spent six to eight weeks building and then six to eight weeks cutting. And the way you've cut, the way you've built is probably adding about a meal or so, 300 to 500 calories. The way you cut it is by cutting out that 3 to 500 calories. That's going to do that. If you want to add anything more, walking, walk, move more, that'll help create a greater calorie deficit. Not that cardio is bad. You can, you can do that if you want to, but it's not the answer to this. It's literally do it through nutrition, do it through your diet. If you can get some extra activity here and there, that can help speed up the process. But then for the next six to eight weeks, you're cutting out that meal. Watch what you reveal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Perfect. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. You can find AdamInDPumpAdam and you can find me Mindpump Distepton.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatic, radically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Chris Gethard]

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